Cassel vs Haley - What the camera didn't show
by RrustyDawg on Oct 4, 2011 11:11 AM CDT
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PrintAs a season ticket holder for the past few years, I have discovered that sometimes the view from my seat in section 241 is better than the one in my living room that has a 52" HDTV sitting in it. On Sunday, I saw something that nobody watching TV had the ability to see and I think the untold part of the story is significant. If you care to know what happened on the Chiefs sideline after the cameras stopped rolling, follow the jump.
So just to get everyone on the same page, let me briefly recap the plays leading up to the shouting match between Matt Cassel and Todd Haley:
- Halfway into the 2nd quarter the Vikings are leading the Chiefs 7-3. McNabb caps off a decent Vikings drive by getting a pass picked off in certain field goal range. Chiefs take over at their 35 yard line.
- On 1st and 10, Cassel completes a short pass down the middle to Breaston, who then breaks away all the way to the Vikings 23.
- Two quick running plays and its 1st and goal from the 9 yard line. A touchdown allows the Chiefs to regain the lead.
1st and goal / 9 yd line - Jones runs for a 3 yard gain
2nd and goal / 6 yd line - Cassel takes a shotgun snap and passes incomplete
3rd and goal / 6 yd line - Cassel takes a shotgun snap and within seconds throws the ball into the ground; no attempt to scramble around and give receivers time to break free. The Boo's from the crowd are immediate and very loud.
Cassel quickly trots off the field clearly frustrated. And then....
Haley-Cassel Sideline Spat.mpg (via MrIcefroggyfrog)
Simultaneous with this spat, the Chiefs line up, kick a field goal and then the guy with the funny orange gloves steps onto the field at the 30 yard line (signal that game is in a TV break for those who've never been to a live game).
Since my seat is on the visitor side of the stadium, I have a great view of the Chiefs bench. I saw the shouting and shoving and grabbed my binoculars to get a better view. I decide to follow the QB activity to see if a Palko sighting is forthcoming. Now, in the immortal words of Paul Harvey, let me tell you "the rest of the story".
Todd Haley turns away from Cassel and gets back to the game as the team is lining up for the field goal. Several teammates attempt to calm Cassel down and he mumbles and grumbles his way over to the bench where he immediately starts looking at the latest formation pictures along with backup QB Tyler Palko. One of the assistant coaches is also involved going over the pages.
And then...Todd Haley casually walks over in front of Matt Cassel and kneels down to be on the same eye level as Matt and calmly begins coaching his quarterback. No shouting. No anger. Cassel calmly listening and replying to comments from his head coach. Several times, I see Coach Haley using his hands to indicate how the play was developing and it was apparent he was trying to explain to Matt how to read the movements through a busted play to achieve better success. This happened no less than 60 seconds after the televised shouting match.
I wish I had a video camera of the whole scene. In replaying the sequence of events in my mind, I think I know what happened...don't know for sure...more of a guess really. I think the 3rd and goal play was developing so similarly to the final screwed up KC play in San Diego last week that Matt Cassel simply panicked and threw it straight into the dirt. As Matt returned to the sidelines, I suspect Haley rubbed a little too much salt into the wound and Cassel snapped. Cassel clearly required a lot more attention to get his head back to the task at hand because I counted at least 3 different teammates calming him down as he walked away from shouting with Haley.
I also think Haley quickly realized that he couldn't allow his passion to stand in the way of being the coach of his quarterback. He went over and calmly helped his quarterback believe that he could be better.
From the reports I've read, Matt Cassel gave a bit of an inspiring speech to his teammates at halftime and made them believe they could be better.
Is Cassel our QB of the future? I don't know.
Is Haley the right head coach for our team? I don't know.
What I do know is this - Todd Haley believes in Matt Cassel. Matt Cassel believes in this team. That's good enough for me.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Yes, thank you Dawg.
It’s nice to get a different perspective – one that’s not simple media regurgitation.
Also,
I had the same thought about Matt grounding that 3rd and goal play. You know he was given infinite shit about the int in SD. Everyone was telling him, you should have just grounded it. I imagine he saw, in his mind, a similar situation developing and had a pavlovian response. Is that a good quality in qb? Arguably not, but I suppose it would depend on the trainer too.
by Ransom_ on Oct 4, 2011 6:03 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
My own reaction was initially very negative on the QB.
On replay, I see a charging pass rusher coming unblocked on Cassel’s right side. Sort of the point of the screen is letting the pass rush thrown off-balance by an almost-sack that they’re obliged to finish, only to have a short pass take the ball out of reach and them out of the play.
Anyhoo, I at first thought Cassel should’ve tried to do something with his feet, but that charging pass rusher had a running start, and Cassel wasn’t going to get away from him without a highly risky spin move. One thing that Cassel clearly came to KC NOT to do was to pile stupidities on top of broken plays. The Chiefs don’t WANT (at least not YET, they don’t want) the QB to take big risks and un-do everything the other 11 guys are doing.
We’re seeing a lot of flashy stats this season and a lot of broadcaster drooling over record-setting passers and “Gee, he can really thread the needle into a tiny window.” We’re ALSO seeing QBs singlehandedly give games back to the opposition, most recently and egregiously the up-and-down Tony Romo.
I want Cassel to take it when it’s there and not press. They get the running game and the play fake going, and he’ll get his opportunities to shine. But unless it’s do-or-die time in the game, being patient and letting the game come to him is by far the optimal tactic.
The main flaw I saw in his game on Sunday was taking a sack, when he could’ve thrown the ball away, with no danger of intentional grounding. Other than that, I see a very good QB, who’s learning to trust and learning to EXPECT and DEMAND his teammates earn that trust. It won’t take many games in which he gets a consistent standard of protection. Just up those percentages beyond the tipping point, and he quickly becomes the QB we all want to see.
All imo. Sorry to turn this into a Cassel thread.
I still think he’s on a fairly short leash. As the rest of the offense gets upgraded, he’s increasingly vulnerable to being seen as the weak link. And justifiably seen that way, although all the talk of the last two years on that account was and is premature.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Oct 4, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
My initial reaction was similar after that incident.
in fact, it took the wind out of my sails for awhile. And I think it did Matt’s as well. No one has mentioned this that I’ve seen, but Cassel’s next few passes were over thrown after that incident.
I agree it’s probably generally safer for Cassel to not press, but, it’s a fine balance between playing the percentages and taking a risk when it comes to winning. I don’t think Cassel is ready to make too many clutch decisions on his own. Whether he ever will be remains to be determined, imo. He’s shown progress, albeit, in baby steps.
And, I think this already was a Cassel thread. Note the title.
Title? What title? Heh.
As those percentages improve, Cassel will improve, even if he’s just standing still. Personally, I think he’ll make sizeable gains for every little edge the other guys can give him, and he’s paid his dues.
I think a lot of what we don’t like about Cassel goes back to the viselike control he had to show on a struggling team. “Things are bad. Don’t add to it.” In 2010, things weren’t quite so bad, but it was still “Don’t fuck it up. We have some players with limitations out there, and bad things are going to happen if you just go all gunslinger. Stay healthy. Save your knees. We know you can run, but save it for the playoffs.”
With the better receiver talent, Cassel can and should be more aggressive in his mind set. The protections are getting better. He should be more aggressive in his mind set.
I think it’s great that he has a foundation of not fucking it up. It’s just a matter of proper training and un-learning, now that he has receivers who’ll turn enough of those attempts into big plays that re-define the risk:benefit ratio.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Oct 4, 2011 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
What I see is that.....
Either our lineman or our RB (either Dex or McClain gets out in flat too soon .) This will always draw a DE, a LB and or a Safety to clog up the designed play. We need to either work out the timing better on screens or stop calling the darn play.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
I think Cassel would be infinitely better if Moeaki was his safety net 8 yards down the field every play
Instead of Jones/Charles?McCluster 2 yards down the field. He needs a big sure handed target in the middle of the field if his number 1 isn’t there. Right now we have Bowe and a finesse bunch of receivers who can’t create space. If their first break is covered, they’re done and they can’t bail Cassel out like Bowe or a pass catching TE could.
I think he’ll be so much better with Moeaki out there.
Pope's a big target. Moeaki could play tall AND get separation. Big mismatch problem.
Nobody fast enough is big enough.
Baldwin has the potential to be that kind of guy for Cassel, but according to Brady (or was it Rivers), it’s those finesse guys you really really want and need in the slot. Guys who are RIGHT where you expect them to be and who will make the tough catch. That may be more important than just being a big target. But OUTside, I think those big targets are even more important. Area throws.
I think Moeaki made numerous great plays, but in a couple clutch situations, as a rook, he wasn’t where he was supposed to be. I’d expect that to be different, this year, but there WAS a certain amount of up-and-down, there. Certainly had soft hands and ability to high-point the ball, though, and I think that’s why you (and I) thought of him as a nice security blanket.
would of ≠ would've
IMO the key to success as a "relief valve" "Safety Net" target is to NOT leak out to assigned area too soon.
Watch Rice from Ravens in last years playoff game. He delays til last instant, he does not draw attention. He allows enough room to juke pursuit. LB/Safetyt are not right on him when he gets “safety Valve” pass.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
By the way....
thanks for ……“the other side of the story”.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
It's fun to bring different angles to it, with people who appreciate different angles.
So right back at you.
would of ≠ would've
I think Moeaki made numerous great plays, but in a couple clutch situations, as a rook, he wasn’t where he was supposed to be.
Agree – he had a nice rookie campaign, but people seem to forget that two of Cassel’s interceptions in 2010 were the result of Moeaki running his route incorrectly and ending up in the same spot as Bowe when the ball got there
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Oct 12, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes. A little green, but some veteran skills, at the same time.
Had to be excited about his future, because he was very much NFL ready in many respects. Most respects. I think if I were the coach and had it to do all over again, I’d’ve given Moeaki a longer training period, and had extra tests/strengthening exercises for this guy with a history of injury. You want to believe a guy takes care of himself in the offseason, but with guys like Gabe Miller and Tony Moeaki, seems like there ought to be a special deal going on, in the preventive training area.
would of ≠ would've
I have to jump in here.
Breaston can definitely create space. He is not just a finesse receiver.
"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite
He's a real pro.
Pretty much every detail, down to the body lean to get the ball inside the pylon for the score.
would of ≠ would've
Rec'd...
always appreciate your thoughts and opinions, Mills. I completely concur with everything you stated. I have always thought that they have kept Cassel on a short leash. Has he proved he can consistently shoulder the game and toss passes a la Brady or Manning? Definitely not, but the more I see the noose loosening, the more I see our QB stepping up. I really love Cassel’s worth ethic, his heart, his desire, and his dedication. I truly believe by year’s end, a lot of folks will be eating crow. I admit that I love the guy (no homo), but I did have my pitchfork firmly in hand after that SD game. I truly believe the second half of that Chargers game was the turning point, and his pointer is trending upward…
PICTURE ME SLAPPING THE TOUGHEST GUY YOU KNOW!!!
KCCHIEFSFAN72!!!!
by kcchiefsfan72 on Oct 5, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Cassel has never been asked to just come out throwing and keep throwing. That's for sure.
Nor has he ever thrown 4 picks in a single game.
I’d say that scrambling 10 yards for the 1st down conversion on Sunday last is an example of Cassel taking the team on his own shoulders. And apparently the passing threats were potent enough to give him that kind of room.
Appreciate the kind words, kc72. I don’t know who will be eating crow after the dust settles, but you’ll almost always find me being the last guy to throw a QB under the bus. The worst things I see in QBs are almost always because of bad things happening elsewhere on the team. So I’m always wanting to improve the team around my QB, before concluding he’s the weak link. If he IS, then I want to set the table as well as I can for the new guy. I don’t want to go through QBs on a weekly basis, if it slows me down on team build.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Oct 5, 2011 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well put Mills.
I like that theory too. If you build up everything around the QB and he still doesn’t work out, then whoever comes in next drops into a pretty good situation.
Detroit kind of did it backwards.
But if Megatron and Stafford stay in good health and good spirits, it’ll work out for ‘em. I still think that those first couple seasons could end up shortening Stafford’s career on the back end. He’s still taking a lot of hits, and they’re keeping their sack numbers down, due to skill players. I can see Stafford having a career plagued by chronic shoulder problems down the line. I’m not even sure he’ll survive this season, because they’re still not protecting him all that well.
But now that we agree on the theory, Cassel-haters aren’t entirely wrong, either. The better this team gets, the more glaring any QB weaknesses become. Meantime, it’s about getting Baldwin on-line, Breaston and Colbert sharp, and possibly Hudson taking over from Wiegs or Lilja, whoever gets nicked first. The better the team is working, the more plays will work like they’re drawn up to work, and the easier it becomes for the better pure passer to emerge.
would of ≠ would've
It's amazing the things that get missed
When people rely exclusively on what the TV cameras show.
Thanks for the extra info. I think most around here get that Haley and Cassel don’t hate each other. However, I’ve seen some articles from the nat’l media that indicate Haley’s losing the team, citing this incident as evidence…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I saw before the game that Fox had their sideline camera cart on the Viking side of the field
That was unusual since the norm is to operate that cart over on the Chiefs sideline. Generally, the only time I see a sineline cart on the visitor side is when the game is a national feature game and they have a bunch of extra cameras that includes carts on both sides. My guess was that Fox wanted to make sure they could get plenty of Chiefs bench film in case Haley blew up. I figured they would put this event on the TV the minute it happened.
Somebody on the radio after the game made an excellent point.
If Haley has lost the team, why hasn’t there been a single player speak out against him in the media? Maybe the national media knows something we don’t.
In this era of reality t.v. and manufactured drama masquerading as real life, newsies love to speculate.
With the little bit added by this FanPost to put the “blowup” in context, it looks to me like a good, natural mix of passion and focus for the job at hand.
I personally think Haley has a good blend of passion for the game and his team, and the necessary reserve one must maintain in a position such as his. I’d blow it on the “necessary reserve” side of it. The players would figure out pretty quickly how much I liked them as people and it’d get tougher and tougher to push them outside of their comfort zone, which is where any teacher/coach has to do. It’s the main way that people come away better for having known me.
“Yeah, you’re pretty good at integrating by parts, but tomorrow, we’re doing trig substitutions, and the day after that, partial fractions. So don’t get too comfortable. Enjoy the win, but you have work to do tomorrow, and no guarantee that you’ll cross the next hurdle ’til you cross it.”
would of ≠ would've
I have no doubt
that there is nothing negative coming out of these sideline arguments. I’m really amazed that so many in the media want to spin this amount of passion in the heat of the battle as some sort of disconnect between management and players. But maybe it’s just their way of having a story to run with.
Great Report!
Thanks for sharing this! It’s good to know what happens down there. I’ve often suspected that there’s too much that happens on the sidelines that doesn’t get shown. It really helps when folks like you add what they see to clarify situations better. Rec’d this and hope you’ll continue to share these stories in the future.
I also suspect that your analysis here is spot on and very insightful!
I think the 3rd and goal play was developing so similarly to the final screwed up KC play in San Diego last week that Matt Cassel simply panicked and threw it straight into the dirt. As Matt returned to the sidelines, I suspect Haley rubbed a little too much salt into the wound and Cassel snapped.
Personally, I don’t think those types of exchanges on the sidelines are THE big story. The really big story in those exchanges, that often gets swept away, is that the coach and the player are both passionate about winning. That’s what is most important to me.
I think these things get blown way out of proportion by a sports media dominated by non-athletes who've never been in a physically competitive environment in their lives.
I thought the sideline argument was a good thing — it said that both Haley and his quarterback were still competing even after the disastrous start to the season; that they were both fired up about what was going on.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
I haven't watched what they showed on TV yet.
I was in row 20 behind the Chiefs bench, and Cassel and Haley argued back and forth for quite a while, as Jones held Cassel back. I must have not been paying attention when Haley went over and talked to Cassel, as you stated.
They were actually both there
but Jones is so short, he can’t be seen. Also, with the lack of physical assault and bone breaking, it is difficult to notice him.
by SCKSChief on Oct 4, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Jones probably brushed into Matt, and fell down.
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
by dbakerku on Oct 4, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
At least he falls forward:P
That was me trying to find some good in the situation.
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Your view of the early part is definitely better than what I was able to catch
My son had possession of my binoculars when the shouting started, so I didn’t get a closeup view until things had developed. Thanks for the clarification.
I wasn't saying you were wrong about Haley coming over to Cassel.
I’m sure my attention was somewhere else after the shouting was over.
Yep. I understand.
The main reason I kept watching the sideline was to see if Palko was gonna start throwing the ball around to get ready to go in. Another funny thing I saw at a different part of the game was Palko chatting it up with one of the refs as he was tossing the ball around to stay loose. Maybe it was his uncle or something ’cause they both seemed to be enjoying the conversation.
I noticed
Palko walking briskly away, trying to pretend the situation wasn’t happening, like the kid that’s gonna get in deep shit once dad is finished screaming at his brother.
I'm glad he chose discretion.
Last thing needed is the understudy to stick his nose in at that point.
It’s cool that McClain and Jones did what they did, when they did. That’s what I want. Let the OL be good, the QB be famous and the RBs be smart.
would of ≠ would've
Great post and insight. I think this could be looked back on as a turning point to our season.
I still feel chills and believe we are about to go off on our opponents.
GoooOOO CHIEFS!!!
"In my experience, there is no such thing as luck."
"It's not always going to be pretty; and that's alright..."
I look at it like this...
a calm and refrained Todd Haley does not sell newspapers, nor create highlights on ESPN.
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
Parcells was pretty frumpy. Belichick looks like a bum.
Looking sharp on game day says to me maybe you spend too much time on how you look. I’ll take a scruffy ballcap and a win every time.
would of ≠ would've
Love the win
don’t get me wrong. But how hard is it to put on a team golf-style shirt, some khakis and a new cap? Takes about five minutes. Not too much time, in my book. Not sayin they guy has to get his metro groove on, just look like a coach and not some kids drunk dad on the sideline.
Makes no measurable difference really.
I’m a big fan of casual / comfortable. If Haley wants to show up in assless chaps and a wife-beater with a Freddy Mercury moustache and Elton John sunglasses – go for it man.
As long as he keeps the troops motivated and playing their asses off, why care what he’s wearing?
We Don't Hear The Hate
Didn't say it mattered
What I said is he looked like a bum. I made no statement that the look alters the result nor does it affect the coaching or performance. I just don’t like it.
I’m a guy that shaves twice a week. I get the look. It is just super-sloppy these days. Looks, especially the way you dress on game day (to me anyway) speak to the the pride you have in yourself and your job.
So if it speaks to the pride you have in yourself and your job, it sounds to me like you're saying it matters.
For me, it doesn’t.
I have far more pride in my job and how I do it, than how I look doing it.
We Don't Hear The Hate
Not for production
I’m saying it is a personal preference.
Your last statement is valid, but I fear you are straying to semantics just to prove who is “right” and “wrong” here. There isn’t a right and wrong. I’m just offering thoughts to support my stance.
I can appreciate that.
I’ve just never really seen any real correlation between appearance and ability.
And if Haley can get our guys pounding out some W’s while looking like he just rolled in from a 6 day bender without having slept in a week – yeah, alright. I’m down with it.
I guess my question is why it matters to you if he puts on a polo shirt and khakis or ripped up jeans and a Metallica shirt as long as the players respond to him and produce?
Or really even if they don’t, unless their lack of performance is somehow tied directly to how their coach dresses – in which case I’d track the guy down and force him to tie a double-Windsor every day at knife-point, because dammit I want wins!
We Don't Hear The Hate
I get you, SCKS.
Being presentable doesn’t take much/any effort. Presenting an outside appearance that’s a little closer to the mean does say you’re meeting society halfway, and we ALL depend on society for our well-being. Even LocoLobo.
But I WOULD much rather see a coach who isn’t strutting like a peacock, all due respect to Hank Stram. But that was part of his identity. Haley’s identity is more “Why you lookin’ at me? You’re payin’ to see these guys wearin’ helmets, idiot.”
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Oct 5, 2011 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
BWHAHAHA! You do sneak in some good quips, every once in awhile, Professor ;+)
You, and ESPECIALLY SC apparently(?), would think I’m a total loser, homeless penniless beggar, thieving bum … good-fer-nuthin, pot smokin meth crankin, boozin, anarchist hippie punk freak if you saw how I dress and look. LOL!!!
But yes – much to my embarrassment, chagrin, consternation, and self-righteous indignation – I’m forced to take my facial piercings and earrings out(except for one set is allowed kinda – I get away with it since I ain’t a Conservation Officer), tie my hair back, and even where this horrid khaki MO Dept of Conservation button-up shirt with all the little patches announcing I’m so employed. At least I can wear my jeans and hiking boots though. And I don’t have to shave, or cut my hair off! I’m still gonna get them tats someday too! :+)
Despite all my dreams to be free, I’m still just a dog on a chain. (sighs)
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
by LocoLoboChico on Oct 6, 2011 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Heh. Just something to mull over.
If you’re into survival, blending in to your surroundings is a biggie. Getting closer to the mean appearance of whoever’s around you matters. From trying to find some buds off the street in a strange town, to not sticking out when you walk into the office building to steal some files. Long hair is common enough to be considered civilized, if you pull it back, and dress presentably. And it’s an asset if you want bad people not to hurt you.
Heh. But expressing yourself in a fashion at odds with prevailing social norms DOES stack the odds against you in a large number of social settings. And the long hair has a way of hampering you in certain activities. Last thing I want in a mix-it-up is a bunch of hair somebody can grab. Long beard, the same way. Wearing a tie, however loosely is saying “See? I’m not here to hurt you. Here’s something to choke me with, if I get out of line. Feel better?”
would of ≠ would've
The media, especially KC media
has a bone to pick with Haley & Pioli – IMO.
The closed door, “mums the word” policy of the Chiefs, is clearly driving certain media members absolutely crazy.
Now that was a bad start.... Big finish ????
Really really great post!
Rec’d BIGTIME!
I was once fired from a job two days after I waited on Matt Cassel and his wife Lauren Killian. Totally my AP moment to remember. Unfortunately also one of my stupidest moments.
They both might believe in the team
However, that doesn’t put W’S on the board. If Cassel has turned it around and continually plays like he did in the second(hitting players in stride-scrambling for an attempted first down-not throwing high balls like I have continually seen him do all season)…. then the Chiefs might have a very slim chance of making the playoffs. VERY SLIM. His accuracy still needs work and his arm strength sucks. Let’s be honest, if BOWE’s reciever didn’t fall on his ass during the Viking’s game …that ball probably would have been intercepted, it was way underthrown. I will give him credit for his two outstanding throws to Breaston, they were great. That guy Jack Mack says Cassel does just enough to give the fans hope each game. Well, I for one, am tired of hoping. I want W’s.
The reason the defender 'slipped'
Was because of the hitch move by Bowe and simultaneous pump fake by Cassel, both of them manipulated the defender and created that play, don’t try and take that away from them. If the ball was thrown further the safety could have come across and broken the pass up, as it was Bowe made the catch in space and was able to make the safety miss, lets see him try and do that if the safety is colliding with him as he attempts to catch the ball.
Perfectly placed ball if you ask me
by Chief Fan NZ on Oct 4, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yup, they even talked about it after the game
They made note that the Vikes kept rolling coverage to the inside, so that hitch and simultaneous pump fake were there to get the DB to bite and jump the route.
He did, noticed too late that it was a fake and lost his footing trying to recover.
It was great route running by Bowe, a nice fake by Cassel and a well place throw because, as noted above, if he had thrown it deeper the safety helping over the top would have had ample opportunity to break up the play.
We Don't Hear The Hate
I don't disagree with you about Cassel needing to step it up several notches
My post wasn’t a “Cassel is good so stop ragging on him” deal. I do think Matt is the best option for the remainder of this season. If we are mathematically eliminated from playoff hopes, then I am all for benching Cassel to see if Stanzi or Palko can perform under full speed NFL conditions.
Until then (and even after), you’ll find me sittin’ in my seat believing that we are going to the Super Bowl. Do I really think that’s gonna happen?…not this year…but sometimes you just listen to your heart and tell your head to have another beer to get rid of all those rational thoughts!
From one Dawg to another
Good post , thanks for the extra insight.
Never argue with an Idiot...... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
sometimes I wonder how they would do that chalk outline, if you pushed someone into a tree chipper.
RD, not to mention,
that I do not believe he sees the field well. His mind is not quick enough to process information and get to the second or third receiver. On TV it looks he looks great when the primary receiver is running open; but, poor when he isn’t. To me that is the difference between an average QB and an elite QB.
Case in point is the very screen which is the subject of the spat. He took a quick look, flashed back to the interception in San Diego, panicked and chucked the ball into the ground. I am not saying another QB could have saved that one; but I think Drew Brees might have tried to extend the play and try to find a solution.
I was looking for that play to argue with you, again, and found that drive that petered out inside the 20, with 5:20-ish on the clock
in the 2nd quarter. They were getting positive yards running to either side of the formation. Then, on 2nd down after a pickup of 3 by Jones to the 6 yard line, they went to the pass. Cassel didn’t see anything, but had Jones wide open on the throwback, when nothing was happening on the front side. But that whole play looked like a coaching breakdown. Too often, at critical moments, you can see the offense lets it get to ’em. The play is slow to get to Cassel, or he has problems hearing it, or somebody lines up wrong, or… I think you want to get calmer AND meaner close to pay dirt, and not desperate to find the right play and then not trusting it, to boot.
Anyway, using the pass to get you CLOSE, doesn’t mean you can’t go ahead and run it in, or should rely on the pass to punch it in, the way so many teams do. I’d as soon seem them go jumbo and run inside and outside the tackle every play. I think those long pass plays are an ideal way to get scores, with guys who CAN take it to the house, if you get it to them down the long field. When the field shortens, not so much. That’s when you really want a wicked ground game. Run it in, or get the easy pass off the scarey play fake.
On any one play, it’s easy to argue for Cassel, but I have to admit that the accumulation of plays DOES leave one with the impression that Cassel isn’t seeing the whole field, or as much of the field as you would like.
would of ≠ would've
I wouldn't call it perfect.
I’m not trying to take anything away from them. If you do go back and take a look at it, bowe slows down. I’m not saying it was a good pump fake and hitch, although I don’t think that is the purpose of the slip, I am saying that Cassel make a habit of overthrowing or underthrowing. Bowe made a great effort to miss two tackles, it was fun to watch. All I’m saying is this, Cassel is no Brees, Brady, Manning, or even Fitzpatrick! We need a qb with more skill, I’m sorry.
I don't think anyone is saying that MC is any of those other QB's
But in Bowe’s post game comments, or might have been MC’s, it was stated that they thought the play would work because the DB was biting. It was a well planned play by the offence and it was a bad play by the DB for biting.
Love to hear Bowe say those kinds of things.
Physical dominance is great, but when you’re mentally ahead of the other guy, victory is at hand.
would of ≠ would've
Not taking a position here either way...
…but here is a link to the NFL highlight clip of the play in question.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d822c08c8/Bowe-s-big-TD
Defender definitely slipped biting on the pump fake and hitch and Bowe had to drop off a half-step right at the catch which allowed him to prepare better for the hit by the Safety.
I agree with the pump fake and hitch being well planned.
The ball was still underthrown.
I meant to say in my earlier post, “I’m NOT saying it WASN’T a good pump fake and hitch.”
Eh...
Not a Cassel supporter at all, but you’ve got to drop that pass in below the 2nd level defense everytime, just as he did.
You lead Bowe 100% with that pass, and he’s running right into the 2nd level defender, it was a perfect pass in that situation.
Now that was a bad start.... Big finish ????
by Lucky777Luciano on Oct 4, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
RedDawn: The ball was in Bowe's catch radius and beyond the radius of the defenders.
That’s where most of Cassel’s balls tend to go. He’s playing keep-away from the defense while giving his guy a chance to make a play on the ball. On passes that far, pressing to hit Bowe perfectly in stride easily results in the ball being beyond his reach. There was a soft spot in the coverage off the pump fake and Cassel hit the soft spot, in the vicinity of his guy. Result was a score. I got no beef.
would of ≠ would've
"On passes that far, pressing to hit Bowe perfectly in stride easily results in the ball being beyond his reach."
I don’t have any beef either.
Nice post and Rec'd
Haley seems to love firing up his players (how many times did we see this with Warner and Boldin in AZ?). He has attitude. I don’t know if its always a good thing, but the fact that he was able to calm down, collect, and help his offensive leader lead the team to it’s first victory is more than alright with me. Just hope they can continue to progress rather than regress.
We ride together, we die together, Chiefs fan for life!
good post, nice read. thanks.
I tried to read lips, I think I saw a lot of “you dont know what you are talkig about” from cassel, with a lot of cursing, It seemed like haley was just firing up cassel and like always was doing his thing.
I have full trust in todd haley. Casel? no. Ive lost that faith, he has to start bringing us back with his arm to win games in the 4th.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Cassel has been progressing again after the rib injury
0-4 20+ week one
1-4 week two for 45 yards
3-5 week three for for 91 yards
3-3 week four 108 yards
agree, he lost it after the surgery imo last season as well. whatever timing he started to get down etc, the comfort level...
Im rooting for matt cassel. hes a fighter, he has a ton of heart, and I never want that to be lost in what I said. Its just I dont trust him to win a game on the line with the ball in his hands in the 4th, that worries me. If he changes that, Thank Goodness, because what we need right now is a better passing game.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Couldn't have said it better myself.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Oct 12, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for posting...
Looks like the pressure was getting to both of them. If we can get out front early next game it could change the entire season and that may have been the turning point. nice job
Haley coaches each player differently
because every person responds to differently to different types of motivation. I think Haley gets after guys like Cassel and Bowe because he knows that they’ll respond positively on the field. I don’t know this for sure, but I think other players like Charles and McCluster probably don’t respond that well to verbal break downs. That’s why you never see Haley ripping into those guys after fumbles and whatnot.
I think Haley treats 'em all pretty much the same.
Some of the difference you see is how intimately involved he is with a particular aspect, imo.
But I agree that Haley might postpone a “teaching moment” after a fumble or such from a HB. Nothing to be gained by shitting on the guy when he’s at his lowest. It’s not like the guy put it on the ground because he failed to see something happening on the other side of the field. But I think he cares not one bit about how Cassel feels, if he thinks he has a point to make and a lesson to teach. Cassel and Haley are way past worrying about ruffled feathers.
And I’ll take it a step farther. I think Haley wants his guy to make his case, at times. If there’s something Cassel’s seeing that the coaches aren’t, I think Haley wants him to go ahead and act on it. Just better fuckin’ be right when you throw the smoker to D-Bowe, because you see too much cushion. If you go your own way, it better produce. And I think what I’m hearing is that the coaches WANT Cassel to take a little more authority. If they’re training him right and he’s got the ability, it’s time for that, and Zorn being in KC is a positive sign, there.
I’ll tell ya. When the QB has that authority, and uses it wisely, the game gets very very simple. The whole team starts seeing what they have on the defense, in a given formation and acts on it, too. Doesn’t have to be fancy. Just seeing the safeties two (too-) deep and a LB out of position, y’all know it’s a run, when Cassel pauses in his cadence and gets eye-to-eye with everybody for a nod and a wink.
would of ≠ would've
I hope
If the 11 on the field can finagle a play out of what is sent in consistently…
We got something going on in KC!
its true. we have had this issue where our pass offense is like a practice, slow. but at times cassel steps out of that, actually makes throws and decisions on the spot instead of just making a simple read and deciding the play is over
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Seems like when they loosen the reins, he's very much in the moment.
Now if they can just take that next step and strike while the iron is hot, like the outnumbered Japanese in the Singapore Campaign. Sure, you’re tired, but if YOU’RE tired, those other guys are DYIN’ out there! Gotta have that attitude, and make it so your offense is ALWAYS able to gather itself more quickly than the defense between plays, especially successful plays. Don’t always be acting surprised that something is working. Hell, go right back to it, regardless of the brilliant play a genius in the booth dialed up two plays before.
When that style of playcalling works, it looks like genius, but when you see you’re executing something better than the other team, you should forget your plan and embrace the situation. Force the D to respect the one thing, and THEN switch to something else. Sometimes I feel like our guys are out-smarting themselves.
would of ≠ would've
What about the name calling?
Cassel clearly called someone a “F**$$$” “Pus^^*” – CLEARLY. Who was that directed at? And what did it have to do with the play that happened just before the name calling?
Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrice Chopper
I was there
And didn’t see Haley go over and talk to cassel. The only coach I saw go over there after was Zorn. Good looking out rusty.
Run D is the key this year.
I saw Zorn head to the QB corner as well
I can’t remember if it was before or after Haley had his talk with Cassel. Haley wasn’t there for more than 20-30 seconds and Cassel and Palko were neck deep in those polaroid sheets of the defense.
On a funny note, I am always amused by the distance everyone on the sideline stands from Haley. When I look for him, I just look for the scruffy guy standing by himself and mumbling…kinda like the bums you see under the underpass. No players within 5-10 yards.
Damn, Rusty ... the more you describe Haley and some of his behaviors
the more he reminds of myself … just several million dollars poorer and a million times less accomplished. Especially the mumbling to himself; that really hits home for me.
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by LocoLoboChico on Oct 6, 2011 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions
It is pretty funny
Its like he has a invisible force field around him that no one can get through unless he allows. One of the things I found amusing was during the Haley Cassel yelling match, Zorn acted like nothing was going on and it was right behind him.
Run D is the key this year.
Funny indeed
And I’ll have to watch some more, but I don’t recall seeing Zorn and Haley speak face-to-face during the game. I guess its just easier to talk over the headsets. Maybe their chatter keeps our OC awake.
The yelling was good for everyone...
It made Cassel shake the rust…
It made his teammates be supportive…
It let the O. Line to get their shit together…
It is a good thing…
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This was a great post...
Those two folks have alot of passion. Hayley sticks up for this team. I think this incident reflects alot of the things Aiken’s post tonight was about.
This team believes in each other and the coach. They turned the ball over too much the first two games, hung tight with San Diego and was “near” a blowout against the Vikes. AP and McNabb left with some respect for our D, thats for certain.
This team isn’t in the weeds yet… I want to see Cassel play with some passion every week, that’s what type of team this is…. Heart will get you far.
Thanks again for the insight! Rec’d
great story
thanks for the inside scoop
by RaiderHater4Life on Oct 6, 2011 6:42 AM CDT reply actions
Another Great Post
And the reason I keep coming back to AP. Thanks for sharing.
And it just goes to show you that the TV crew (not as big as would be in place if this were a national game) missed the real story and turned it into a negative story rather than the positive one it was. ESPN did a quick survey regarding the Haley-Cassel spat and it was pretty clear the fans are far more level-headed than the sports media. Who would have thought that?!!
Just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys.
Good Job Rusty Dawg!!!!! Keep wathcing & let me know what happens when the cammra stop rolling….
by Chieffanndonkeyland on Oct 6, 2011 2:55 PM CDT reply actions
About a week or so ago
I read a post that was saying how Haley doesn’t try and get guys up, that there isn’t any leaders on the team, how DJ doesn’t chew someones ass out if they miss a tackle. My question was"how do we know what goes on when cameras aren’t directly on them". This at least gives a little insight that we can’t judge someones personality or leadership over 10 seconds of camera time. I am glad to here that Haley/Cassel put the bullshit aside and got back to the game. Shows a lot. On a side note, watching Zorn on that video during the fighting match, whys that dude always look so god damn lost. Like a deer in the headlights .
….Anyways, Great post REC
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