Ramblings Of An Idiot: 21 Should Be The Chiefs 12
Note: This piece was written on Friday, Oct. 7th, before last weekend's game vs. the Colts.
Pats West is the moniker that was incorrectly slapped onto the Chiefs team when Scott Pioli took the job as the new GM in Kansas City. There was a lot of talk about how Pioli would be bringing the New England team building philosophy to the red and gold, and the first major trade of the Pioli era seemed to support that title. Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel were added to the K.C. team as new leaders on their respective sides of the ball. They brought with them a work ethic and football acumen taught by the very team Pioli helped to build in New England. Since the day Haley was named the coach of the Chiefs, no title has seemed less appropriate than Pats West.
I submit to you (those that grace my article by spending a small portion of your valuable time to read) that the Chiefs look a lot like the Patriots. It's more of a mirror image than a direct comparison, but there's a lot to learn by looking at a mirror image, and the Chiefs should take notice of at least one thing that the Patriots did last season, and will soon be doing again.
Before I type anything else I feel that I should point out one thing: I am a defense lover. I only know as much about offense as I had to learn in order to play defense. I've tried to open my eyes to a lot more of what happens on the over hyped side of the field, but I am by no means a student of offensive football. The NFL game has been changing with the addition or tweaking of rule after rule that pigeon hole the defenses and set the passing game up for success. I don't really like the direction the game is headed in, but as an obsessed fanatic I'm also hell bent on understanding it on a nuts and bolts level.
It's this nuts and bolts thought process that has lead me to what I hope will be an interesting thought completely centered around the 2 minute drill.
The two minute offense, the no huddle offense, and the muddle huddle offense all have very similar characteristics and goals. As the passing game has become more and more relevant in recent seasons defenders have switched from a 4-3 base (strongest against the run) to a 3-4 base front (stronger against the pass with more athletes on the field), but that gradual change was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of defensive scheming against the pass. The Ryan brothers, among others, have been pushing the envelope of complexity for defensive play callers.
Even with all the advantages of the new NFL passing game defenses have still stood atop the pile come playoff season. And the biggest reason for that has to do with the on field misdirection perpetrated by defensive coordinators. Weather it be zone blitzes, nickel and dime zone packages, line stunts, varied personal packages, "dirty" alignments at the snap, scheming, overloading, or any other of the many forms of trickery .... the result has been positive for NFL defenses. The schematic has been written, and the buzz word is confusion. Confuse the offense so they never know what's coming and revel in the basking glow of sacks, picks, and negative plays.
However, like 2 boxers circling the ring, eventually one will find a hole in the others defenses and exploit it. That hole in late 2010 and 2011 has been the hurry-up offense. It might be a no huddle in the middle of a quarter or the 2 minute drill at the end of the game. The only thing that really matters is coupling the offenses ability to do multiple things with a single personnel package, while eliminating a defenses ability to substitute players.
For more specifics lets take a look at the New England Patriots 12 personnel package. The (12) translates easily enough into 1 RB and 2 TE's. At any one time there are 5 eligible receivers on the field for the offense. In the case of the 12 package (1+2=3) there are 2 spots left for WR's (Let's say Welker and Branch). The Patriots have 2 talented TE's in Gronkowski and Hernandez, which leaves Green-Ellis as the RB. Added to those 5 are the 5 linemen, and the QB.
This package for the Patriots is a killer in no huddle mode. Both TE's can catch the ball well or block. They can play out wide as receivers, stacked on either side of the line as blockers and slot players, or one can line up in the backfield as a FB in order to morph the 12 into a make shift 21. Welker can play the slot or out wide. Branch plays as a dedicated WR, and Green-Ellis can shift up to the slot kicking Welker out wide to form a 0 (Zero) or 'empty' set with 5 WR's and no backs.
From the defensive perspective, the Patriots come out in 12 personnel on 1st and 10. Crennel decides to play down and distance, and so sticks with his base defense. The Chiefs line up in a 3-4 base and New England runs the ball for a 4yard gain. It's now 2nd and 6 and the Pat's go into a no huddle (hurry up) offense.
The Chiefs have no time to make any substitutions. They cannot switch into nickel. They are stuck playing a 3-4 base against whatever NE throws at them. They have the option to blitz as often as they would like, but no chance to swap out players to get fresh legs on the field. The Chiefs are going to have to play a more conservative version of their base zone. Eventually, if the drive goes on for multiple 1st downs, the Chiefs are going to have to spend a time out to get fresh pass rushers on the field or to put in a nickel or dime package. Worst of all, if NE can keep the tempo up, the Chiefs down linemen are going to be sucking wind and become much less effective at pushing the pocket. The Chiefs will be forced to blitz to get any pressure at all on the QB.
The Patriots come to the line of scrimmage and go with a 5 wide set. Both TE's are out wide. Welker is in the slot, and Green-Ellis joins Branch and Hernandez all on one side of the field. The Patriots have just set up a 5 WR formation vs. a 3-4 base defense that doesn't have enough corners/safeties to defend them. Justin Houston is now lined up on Wes Welker and McGraw will have to cover Gronkowski in the deep middle. It's a horrible mismatch in the Patriots favor, and there's nothing the Chiefs can do about it.
The ball is snapped and Hali somehow plows through the blocker and gets in Brady's face almost immediately. Green-Ellis runs a quick curl in, now occupying the spot on the field that Hali vacated as he moved into the backfield. DJ makes an incredible open field tackle and holds Green-Ellis to a 5 yard gain. Even with everything going right for the Chiefs on that play, the mismatch is too much to overcome. They needed their nickel package on the field. It's now 3rd and 1.
New England quickly moves to the line and stacks both OT's on the right side of the offensive line in an 'unbalanced' formation. Welker lines up in the slot on the opposite side and Branch goes out wide to Welker's side of the field. Hernandez goes in motion and sets up as a FB to the heavy side of Green-Ellis while Gronkowski fills the line as the TE. The offense has created an unbalanced line to run behind and shifted it's receivers to the opposite side, forcing the Chiefs to defend them. The Chiefs are now stuck playing base defense against the Patriots 'big' package trying to stop a short run for a first down with 2 OT and a lead blocker opening a hole against Tyson Jackson and Kendrick Lewis who has moved up into the box. I'm sure you can guess the most likely result of this play.
Now imagine this goes on for another series, or 2, or 3......
Eventually the Chiefs will be forced to call a time out as their linemen and rushers get gassed. But does that time out really help? Even if the Chiefs run their dime package out on the field to defend the 5 WR shotgun formation on the next play what's to stop NE from just lining up in a 21 with Gronkowski as a FB to give Green-Ellis a lead blocker and running the ball into an undersized defense for the next 4 plays? Hernandez will likely return to the Patriots line up this week, and I bet they can't wait to have him back on the field.
The no huddle offense is the perfect tool to combat the confusion techniques of modern defenses. And if your football team has players with diverse skill sets (like NE's 2 TE's) on the offense, why not run the no huddle as often as your own players' conditioning will allow?
What the heck does all this have to do with the Chiefs? It's a crying shame Moeaki is out for the year, because with Moeaki and Pope as the TE's (both can catch and both can block decently) the Chiefs could employ the same kind of tactics. Jamaal Charles in the backfield with Bowe at WR and Breaston in the slot could do very similar things to keep defenses on the field and mismatched as the offense shifts to multiple sets with the same personnel.
I think the Chiefs STILL have the athletes on the team to play this no huddle game, even without Moeaki and Charles. But, they can't do it out of their base 12 personnel. Instead they would need to use their 21 package. McCluser and McClain (Battle) in the backfield, Pope as the TE, and Bowe and Breaston as the WR's would do the trick. It wouldn't be quite the same as how NE does it, but Pope is capable of playing either TE or a massively oversized slot receiver. McCluster could shift from RB to Slot at will. Battle could shift from FB to RB to TE, and Bowe stays out wide all the time.
21: FB: McClain; RB: McCluster; TE: Pope; WR: Bowe; Slot: Breaston
12: RB: McCluster, TE: Pope, McClain; WR: Bowe; Slot: Breaston
4 Wide: WR: Bowe, Breaston; TE: Pope; Slot: McCluster; RB: McClain
5 Wide: WR: Bowe, Breaston, Pope; TE: McClain; Slot: McCluster
We know that McClain can run the ball, and we know that he can block, and I believe he could play TE and run a crossing route if asked. So the question is:
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Or do we modify our 3-4 defense to a
2-4-5 with 2 NTs, 2OLB/DEs, 2 ILBs, 3 CBs, 2 Safeties
Oh this was about offense… Ima go with questionable, it sounds like it would work on paper decently enough but I would have to wait and see it in action to be honest
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
this is scary ... Tex is actually THINKING
do I smell smoke?
someone call the neighboring villages and find out which one is missing their idiot …
awesome stuff, Tex!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
that's what he's saying ... watch the Pats ... it works
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I get what he is saying but with the pieces we have now on offense I'm not sure it would work too well
Just my .02$
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 11, 2011 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
The Pats also have
TWO actual TEs. We don’t even have one at present. Without those pieces this idea is shot to hell.
And actually the double TEs, in the NFL, is the deadliest poison. It forces the defense to be balanced, thus letting the offense have a two-way go with their play calls.
Unless we’d go to an OU-style fast-break offense, we don’t have the personnel. Alas, we don’t have the QB for the fast-break offense.
Guess we’re screwed.
It could potentially work
But I’m not sure the guys we have in there can pull it off.
I’d feel light years better if we swapped out Pope for Moeaki and Dex for JC…
(sigh)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I know ... sadly, right now, we can't
Battle I think would be a better option than Dex … Pope and Who Do We Have? and then Bowe and Breaston and pray for rain (and a hurricane)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
IF Baldwin can provide any type of threat (which I think he will)
I think we have a better chance getting mismatches in the more traditional sense. spread the field with 3 WRs, then run the ball effectively in the open space, then throw the ball around as they stack the box…
Rince, repeat.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
meaning throw to open up the running game
whatever works, works … if it works
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
line up 3 WR
and have the option to throw to Dex out of the backfield.
would that be fun?
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Oct 11, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
But that's missing the point of the post.
We’re trying to find a personnel grouping that we can send out that provides a lot of flexibility so that we can create inherent mismatches while running a no huddle offense. If we send out Bowe, Baldwin, and Breaston, they’ll send out a nickel package without a second thought. The point is to find a package that we can run a no huddle out of, preventing subsitutions, but providing us with the ability to line the same personnel grouping up in different ways in order to create those mismatches. The closest I can think is a 21 with one TE, and 2 RBs, one of those RBs being McClain since he can play either pure FB or RB, and the second being Dex since he can play either pure RB or line up in the slot as a WR.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
I get the point of the post (as much as a guy like me ever "gets" anything)
Which is why I said initially I don’t think we have the personnel to do it. Thus, the counteroffer…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
It might help us against Green Bay Too
Chicago, Denver if we can find more guys that can cover and stuff the run too
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
OR
We can always just have Bowe treat the CB covering him like his personal whipping boy.
Man I felt bad for that lacey guy…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
hogwash! you loved every minute of it!
Man I felt bad for that lacey guy
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Nice post Tex.
I didn’t vote because my thoughts were that, while anything is possible—this offense is going to have to prove that they can make those play calls on the fly accurately. They lost McClain against the Colts and Haley admitted that it caused ‘mental gymnastics’ on the sidelines to figure out what the next step was. Right now, I don’t think this coaching staff is comfortable enough with what their players can actually do to be able for them to think forward enough to be successful with this. It’s a fantastic idea though. Maybe that’s one of the things that they will work on during the bye week.
Rec.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Damn,
I forgot my comparison. I was also going to include that the Pats have a few pieces of their offense that Belichick DOES know enough about to think forward about certain players and how they match up against opposing defenses.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
like that Brady guy?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I would think Brady would be less of a hurdle.
Than Muir wrapping his head around a Pass first Offense
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't believe all that much has changed...
It’s still about getting miss-matches. That’s why teams went to the 3-4 to begin with because teams were not putting much effort in drafting quality centers. I still believe teams with push up the center that can pass rush with just 4 guys will get it done. I can see a real need for having 2 really good LB’s that can cover. I look for some more rule changes to protect the qb’s even more…along the lines of db play…to bring back more of the run game. I hate the hurry up as a fan, but as a coach your about stupid if you don’t run it. Nice post
Love the hurry up
more than that, I LOVE the fast-break offense. When that thing is clicking, look the hell out. Oklahoma is Defense Exhibit A. Those cats flat get after it. Ask Texas how well it works.
How about putting Baldwin wide....
and Bowe in the slot. Can’t wait to see that. It would give Bowe more room to work.
Awesome ideas Texas_Chief
I don’t find a definite option to answer your poll.
I knew it was going to be the Double TE that New England is playing towards, so to follow your point is that why Bill is dabbling in the exotic 3-4/4/3 hybrid world to see what can stop his new offense?
To your post does the Offense actually have to run a NO Huddle or just up-tempo? Exactly how does the Offensive players get their assignments in a prolonged drive of NO-huddle anyway?
Rec Tex
I think the 4-3/3-4 hybrid is just an adjustment period as he moves back to a 4-3
at least I would hope so for the Pats sake because the hybrid defense doesn’t seem to be working. I think he just sees the trend moving towards the 3-4 and figures it will be harder to find personnel for it and so he’s moving back to the 4-3. But his 4-3 lacks a true DE pass rushing specialist. I think they realize that and will be making moves for a true 4-3 DE in the coming offseason.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
Actually to piggy back on that
The problem with the 4-3/3-4 hybrid they’re working on right now requires personnel changes for the most part. I think if anyone could be more successful at it without personnel changes and sending in a new package, it’d be us. From our base 3-4, if we want to slip into the 4-3, we could move Hali onto the line, along with Dorsey and Amon Gordon at the three tech and put Tyson opposite Hali at DE (albeit not ideal).
The thing with the Pats 12 personnel package that makes it difficult isn’t the use of the 4-3 or 3-4, its more about the use of the base defense (whether 4-3 or 3-4) against versatile passing formations when the nickel or dime is needed. I think one of the reasons that we’ve seen Crennel run so much nickel this season early is because he wanted to establish a nickel defense that would be good enough to stop the run while also being oriented to play the pass in sets with a lot of receiving options on the outside.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
I would rather slide Houston on the line opposite Hali
Keep Dorsey and Tjax inside
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 11, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Or Gilberry at LDE
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 11, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Both are having run issues
I do think Houston will be the solution at the LOLB
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
But all of those requires personnel swaps from the base defense.
The idea of the post is that when you’re going up against the Pats 12 personnel grouping, and you send your base defense out there, one they start running the no huddle, you’re relegated to the guys you have on the field at the time.
Our base D front three is TJax, Gregg, Dorsey. If that’s what’s out there, and the offense starts running a no huddle and you want to be able to put up a different defensive front, you can only do it with the guys out there at the time. Now, its a moot point because we wouldn’t be switching into a 4-3 in such a situation anyhow, we’d be switching into a nickel. And frankly, none of the LBs we have could double as S or CB in order to make a nickel set work. That’s how the offensive personnel grouping the Pats run becomes so deadly.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
and why their Defense is so bad
but improving
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem for the league is that no one has a LB that can essentially play a hybrid S or CB role.
Now, in theory, a LB should be big enough and athletic enough to cover a TE. Most teams have one. On the Chiefs, I’d say DJ can probably keep up with the average TE in the league. But once you start talking about two TEs out there, well, Belcher and Houston aren’t going to be able to cover a Hernandez or Gronk, even if DJ might be able to do a serviceable job. To make it even more difficult, a WR like Welker lines up in the base set as a wide out, but when sending the TEs out wide, you can move Welker into the slot, meaning you either take a huge speed mismatch with your coverage LB taking the slot man, or give him a greater skill mismatch out wide on the island with a physical but quick TE like Hernandez/Gronk.
The closest I could think to a means for us to move into a nickel formation on the fly that would be able to man up on that kind of set would be dorsey and gregg (although Gordon would be more ideal as startin NT for this reason) in the 3-tech, Hali and Houston outside at 7-tech, Belcher as a MLB run coverage with responsibility for the RB if he comes out for a pass, Carr and Flowers on the two WRs, and move McGraw/Sabby into cover the other TE. Kendrick is then a single deep zone.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
Well it looked good till you
got to the safeties :(
Statistically most of the Safeties in the NFL are not good in 2011
Buffalo with Byrd, Wilson
Cincinnati with Nelson, Crocker
It is almost like the NFL teams identities in 2011
Jekyll and Hyde
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Obviously, we'd all prefer Berry there.
But the idea is that you’d have to move a safety in there to cover the TE. And to be honest, it might not be as bad a mismatch as you think against a Sabby or McGraw. Granted, none of those guys have Berry’s speed, but most TEs aren’t burners either, so Sabby/McGraw might actually be able to keep up. The ideal would be do get Donal Washington in there. He came out as a CB, so he would actually have some man coverage advantages. But, that would require making him part of the base defense, and if that happens, he’s a considerable downgrade in run support compared with a McGraw or Sabby.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
the problem is that the cannot defense a pass consistently
preventing YAC is great but the drive usually continues after the catch
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Misread what you had at first since you brought up Gordon
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 11, 2011 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Cory Greenwood might be our best shot at an LB/CB hybrid
He ran a 4.4 in the 40 yard dash and weighs about 235-240 lbs. That would make him about the right speed to match up with many TEs while keeping enough bulk to consistently play the run. Though he’d likely have to move to LOLB to play that role and we just drafted a guy to rush the QB from that spot (kind of the opposite of what this hypothetical defense would call for). Throw in the fact that he hasn’t seen much game time and I have no idea if he could actually do it or how well he’s progressing in his pass coverage skills.
by Chiefs4Life on Oct 11, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I will continue to read as I write
Bill is having a definite issue finding a pass rushing stud OLB much less two in the 3-4.
Berry’s injury cramped that idea big time, Why no Safety selection in the 2011 draft then or is Jalil Brown the Hybrid CB/SS that would fill out the Nickel.
Arenas though learning does not seem to be that guy yet?
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Possibly Super Mario?
Is his last year in his contract, and is out for the season.. maybe he will test the waters to a 4-3 team
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 11, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's how I could see Chiefs 21 personnel looking
RB: McCluster, RB/FB: Battle/McClain, TE: Pope, WR: Bowe, WR: Breaston/Baldwin
It’s essentially the inverse. Although with Battle/McClain, it doesn’t give us quite the versatility of having a true 5 WR set, Battle or McClain can be used as either FB or as RB, with options to motion or move Dex out into the slot for a four WR set. I know Dex hasn’t been very effective as a slot receiver last year, but when he comes in the game along with McClain, it gives us the versatility to run a true I formation running play (with the added benefit of a pure FB in McClain as opposed to a TE who is not as naturally gifted for that role). Pope is a bit limiting as a TE option within the scheme though, because he’s more of a pure TE than a a Hernandez/Moeaki type who has more speed and agility to be considered a formidable route runner. We would need more athleticism at the TE position for that to be a truly good and versatile personnel set.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
The Chiefs look nothing like New England.
We’re talking about the best passing offenses in the league versus one of the worst.
How do you people write this stuff.
This act's starting to get stale, Clay.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
But in case that was a genuine question
Indicating a true lack of understanding as to HOW Texas (and apparently whoever else qualifies as “you people,” {remind me to have a conversation with you at some point so I can find out who you mean by that}) can write “this stuff…”
My best guess (without being a mind reader) is that Texas is merely observing what the best passing attack in the league does, breaking it down to a simpler level, and discussing whether or not we have the personnel in place to carry out such a passing attack. He then provides the reader with the option of inputting his or her own opinion via poll to get some feedback.
That help?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
My Question is the whole Shotgun offense
Cassel seems to run a Run based under Center very well.
Granted one weeks data. To add he threw on pass against the Colts over 20 yeards and it was incomplete, vs Minnesota and SD he was more aggressively accurate down the field
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Minnesota 17 Shotgun snaps
this drive was the TD
1-10-KC 41 (14:37) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 44-L.McClain to KC 48 for 7 yards (23-C.Griffin).
2-3-KC 48 (14:01) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass deep left to 82-D.Bowe for 52 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Penalty on MIN-23-C.Griffin, Illegal Contact, declined.
WATCH HIGHLIGHT
6-R.Succop extra point is GOOD, Center-43-T.Gafford, Holder-2-D.Colquitt.
MIN 10 KC 22 Plays: 2 Possession: 0:46
hardly long enough to tell :)
Indy 4 TD’s and 7 Shotgun snaps
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
2 things seperate New England from every other franchise in the NFL.
1. They have, arguably the best QB in the league. The team is built around him. The NFL is such a passing league now, and if you don’t have a top-tier QB, you won’t win anything of consequence.
2. Their coach (Hoodie) and Owner (Robert Kraft) are in complete agreement on almost every football decision. They run their team differently than any other team. Look at Ocho Cinco for example…the guy came to the Patriots tweeting 30+ times a day. No tweets from Chad in almost 2 and a half weeks. They do things differently, and it’s proven that it works.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Oct 11, 2011 7:05 PM CDT reply actions
Someday Brady will be gone
Just like Peyton Manning is
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
This is true.
Luckily for them, they have Ryan Mallet waiting in the wings.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Oct 11, 2011 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
The point of the article isn't to say we are NE, its to ask how we can emulate NE from an X's and O's standpoint
We have the personnel we have. And although Brady is an amazing QB, there are things that are a part of their system that allow him to be that. This is one of them. Every QB is going to have an easier time when you have four pure receiving threats matched up against a base defense. The question is how do we do that? I’d say we don’t have the depth or skill at the TE spots for a Pats 12, so our option should be the 21 (2 RBs, 1 TE), and Dex can offer us the flex spot where he can play pure HB or our in the slot, while McClain gives us the flex of a HB/FB. If we send out Dex, McClain, Pope, Bowe, and Baldwin/Breaston, the defense will come out in the base 3-4 or 4-3, and we run a play out of the I formation at them. Then, we line go no huddle, split dex out into the slot keeping McClain as the HB, and maybe even motion Pope out wide (although he is not ideal for that role since he is not a very good outside the hashmarks route runner, I’d prefer to get a Cody Slate or something back that can work with that). Either way, it gives us Dex in the slot against a LB, which should be a speed and shiftiness advantage for Dex.
The point is we’re trying to find an offensive personnel package that we can send out that will allow us to create mismatches while running a no huddle.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
Tom Brady is arguably the 2nd best QB in the league
compare the Pats sans Brady to the Colts sans Manning.
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Oct 12, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Good read
wishing Battle would be somewhere in there though…perhaps for McClain or Dex? Not sure who the better pass blockers are among these three, but Battle has my vote for the run game as it is now.
Battle would only make sense taking McClain's role here.
He wouldn’t provide us with the mismatch if lined up in the slot against a base defense because he doesn’t have considerable speed advantages vs a LB. McCluster is the “offensive weapon” or more accurately “flex” role that we can find a way to exploit, with McClain having the flex of FB or HB. It remains to be seen if Battle could make it as a FB, which would be needed in order for the concept to fully work, but considering his power, I think he could take on that role if we worked on it with him for a couple of weeks.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
Tex, amaing post man. Really innovative thinking on the Offensive side for a defensive guy... Rec'd for sure
I’m not as optimistic on McClain’s ability to play a TE role, certainly not as a primary receiving TE. Heck, McClain is frnkly a bit short for that role. And for the matter, Pope is not the route runner or threat that a Gronk or Hernandez is. We need more of a receiving oriented TE for it to work even as a four wideout set, but I like the idea of finding ways to create mismatches and I think running a no huddle out of this personnel grouping would give us a chance to get Dex really involved in the middle range passing game.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
Pioli loves to draft TE's
we have that going for us
by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 11, 2011 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Haley is all on board with Bill's program
TE’s are rooks, while good WR’s are Queens.
Now I would rather have maybe the more expensive Queens than an army of Rooks to start a football game.
But maybe sacrificing Queens in the end game for an Army of Rooks seals a WIN
I like the thoughts
way more in depth than I could ever get, but I like it. I’d also like to add that Cassel seems to thrive in the 2 min/no huddle. I think Mitch Holthus calls it the “red dog” offense…red something. His passing just seems much more efficient.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Oct 11, 2011 8:18 PM CDT reply actions
Red ball?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 12, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd like to see the youthful speed of TE Cody Slate & WR Jeremy Horne brought up on line for Quality reps during our Bye week to see if these shuffles couldn't flush out a hole card...
I had been saying the same about Battle
I may still be right about Battle, but any of these guys may prove themselves if they’re given a real chance to do so. Horne may just need more playing time to find his niche.
Yeah, but where do you draw the line?
We’ve had so many of those guys that “if we just give them enough time” have flopped and meanwhile we still wait while the world passes us by. Literally, the WHOLE world. Detroit and Buffalo are now exponentially better than we are. How embarrassing is that?
Don’t get me wrong, kudos to them for finding success and a formula to achieve it. But, we need to get real and learn that waiting on our “fan favorites” and the “good kids” isn’t what wins championships. We need to identify the guys that can play and quit wasting time on those that can’t.
I think "exponentially better" is a stretch
I still predict one of those two teams is really more like the 2009 Broncos…
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Oct 12, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
When you are sure you can find a better player
you sign him. We brought in Baldwin, Breaston, and Colbert this past offseason, so it’s not like we haven’t been looking to improve the talent pool at WR. Apparently, the coaching staff sees Horne as better than most guys walking the street but not better than the guys playing ahead of him.
by Chiefs4Life on Oct 12, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
What I'm saying
is that Horne is just an example of what is wrong with this organization. So many guys that “could be good if we give them enough time.” I’m just tired of seeing all the ST-lifers on the squad when we have glaring holes at other positions. Some of these cats are not even quality back-ups, just good on STs (Copper, Studebaker and McGraw come to mind, as does Sabby).
I am by no means a football guru
but isn’t what you are describing the entire point of the EP offense? Any given personnel package of versatile skill position players can line up in practically any formation from which they can run nearly any play (but the playbook is much smaller)?
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

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