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Who is Tyson Jackson and what can we expect from him?

Without even trying, I've already irritated 9 people.  Now part of that is because some people just don't like me.  The other part is that Tyson Jackson has become the new Glenn Dorsey around here.  It's time someone did a full-blown, no-holds-barred post about the man.

Hi guys, it's been a while...

Starting classes, preparing for law school (who knew it would involve a lot of paperwork?), and getting the house ready for the new baby have taken up an extraordinary amount of my time lately.  To make matters worse, my wife has started genuinely expecting me to help out around the house!  Some lame excuse about being eight and a half months pregnant and needing more help, or something like that.  I wasn't really paying attention.  

Anyways, the result of my forced absence is I've missed out on a lot of the offseason fun so far.  The mock drafts (which I'm sure I'll be able to catch up on), the lists of team needs (it really stung missing that phase), and the FA frenzy started without me.  I'm a little hurt you guys didn't wait for me, but Chris and Joel refused to shut down AP in my absence.  Go figure.

The biggest argument I've been following has been the ongoing debate about Tyson Jackson.  Is he a bust?  Is he a below average player?  Is he much improved?  Did his injury set him back too far to make a fair judgement? Everyone's got an opinion, so it's time to dig deep down like my man Dig Dug.

When trying to determine if a young player is a bust or if he's a guy who is a part of our future I ask myself two questions...  

Number 1- Is he actively contributing?

Number 2- Is he improving at a decent rate?

So let's look at question Number 1. A h/t has to go to Kalo here, because he did all my work for me.  All I had to do was go back and look at T-Jax's KPM/snap (if you don't know what that is, read this) and figure it out from there.  His system is about as good as it gets when trying to evaluate a 3-4 DE, since tackles and sacks don't really tell the story with them.

Let's take a look at his rating from Week 1 forward (in weeks he played, naturally).  

Week 1- .342 (in 35 snaps)

Week 7- .333 (in 18 snaps)

Week 8- .533 (in 23 snaps)

Week 9- .267 (in 30 snaps)

Week 10- Info not available (Kalo had technical difficulties)

Week 11- .733 (in 15 snaps)

Week 12-  0 (in 7 snaps)- It should be noted we were in nickel D 74% our snaps in this game.

Week 13 and 14- Info not available 

Week 15- .435 (in 23 snaps)

Week 16- 1.000 (in 15 snaps)

Week 17- Info not available

Here's a picture of what T-Jax does on non-gamedays to rest your eyes for a second.  That's right, he picks on older, smaller people.  Uncool.

Anyways, what did we learn here?  His average KPM/snap rating was a .455.  We also learned that he played around 20 snaps a game, with the two big exceptions being 35 (against the Chargers) and 7 (against the Seahawks).  So what does that tell us?  Well, it helps us make several logical conclusions.

First , T-Jax was very productive when he was on the field.  A .455 KPM/snap rating is very, very good.  Second, T-Jax was not on the field nearly as often as one would like to see from a first round pick.

So why is that?  Why would a guy who is producing when he's out there not get more snaps?  Well, part of the answer is Shaun Smith.  He played well week in and week out and kept earning the right to stay on the field.  The other half to the equation is that we were in the nickel package at least 50% of the game pretty much every single week.  And in those packages T-Jax lost out to Gilberry for a spot on the line (we often only had 2 real linemen in when we went to nickel).  Add those two factors up and you see why T-Jax was seeing limited snaps (and that's if you discount coming back from an injury).

Now let's go back to the two questions we can ask about a draft pick and figure out of they're a bust or worth holding out hope for.

Is he actively contributing?

The answer to that is clearly yes.  When Jackson came back from his injury, he had a number of very strong games despite limited playing time.  He was excellent in run support and at taking on double teams, which was a big reason why our run defense didn't totally fall apart (although it did suffer) when Edwards faded down the stretch.

Let me put it this way... Our run defense was ranked 2nd to last in the NFL last year.  We took 46 yds/g off our average and improved to 14th in the league this year.  Looking at T-Jax's KPM/snap ratings, it's clear he had a part in this improvement.  His KPM/snap ratings were often superior to Smith's, despite the claims that Smith was outplaying him all year.  The reality is T-Jax was playing just as well or better in nearly every game.  

Is he improving at a decent rate?

This is where people seem to be getting hung up.  Many are jaded by watching Ndamukong Suh come out and dominate as a rookie, or watching B.J. Raji turn into a very good NT in his second year.  They see that, then look at T-Jax and say, "Well, clearly he's a bust.  Look what those guys are doing!"

The problem is that Suh and Raji are two totally different players in two totally different situations.  We've already figured out that T-Jax is contributing to our defense.  So let's stop comparing him to others around the league and ask ourselves, "Is he much better than last year?"

The answer to that is a total, complete, absolute, without-a-doubt, unequivocal, never-been-so-sure-of-anything-in-my-life 

                                                          

I'll bore you with one example before leaving you to your thoughts.  This time last year, many people were down on Glenn Dorsey.  We heard many of the same things about him we've heard about Jackson, with the additional "he's out of position" argument thrown in.  I was never a part of that crowd.  And why?

Because A) he was contributing, and B) he was improving at a decent rate.  He passed the test.

And so does Jackson.  While the two aren't EXACTLY the same (Dorsey was further along after two years, and a slightly better player to start with), those two similarities (both contributing, both improving) are enough to make me believe by this time next year we'll all be thrilled with our DE combo.  If he improves even half as much next year as he did this year, he'll be a very solid player on our line.

And if not?  Well, there's always Wallace Gilberry.  

And... ninja pic 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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I'm a T-Jax fan and a Dorsey fan.

They are both solid players continuing to improve each year. I think they will continue on this path for a very long time.

by chiefdan on Jan 26, 2011 10:00 AM CST reply actions  

I agree

Of course, I just spent over 1,000 words saying that, so you probably knew I’d agree :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks chiefdan

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, saw some people raggin' on TJax ... I wasn't one of them, btw

as for mock drafts, you haven’t missed a thing … still, I’m with you in not understanding how your wife cold possibly expect you to help out simply because she happens to be … well, due any second now, like that’s YOUR fault or something (well, it is but we’ll let it slide this time)

after all, you have your education to think about, your entire future, and that’s her future too … and what good is the future if you can’t enjoy the now? and what good is the now if you can’t post once in awhile … you’ve been spending too much time painting the nursery and doing “paperwork” for … oh right, school

and MN … well done, Sir :-)

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 26, 2011 6:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks ups

And I’m going to write down that entire spiel to repeat to my wife :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 7:59 AM CST up reply actions  

finally got past the 75 word limit, we're impressed ;-)
I just spent over 1,000 words saying that

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 26, 2011 6:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I know

I’m normally so short-winded :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Please! You guys are so lucky to have such young upcoming talent on your team!!!

We could only wish!
Amazing that any Chiefs fans would have a problem with this guy!

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. DA

by Whidbey Bronco on Jan 26, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks Whidbey

And don’t be too down about your boys. Now that McDaniels is out of there, you guys will actually hang onto your best players! And hey, Tebow looked pretty legit. You’ve got reasons to hope.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:02 AM CST up reply actions  

MWHAHA

I couldn’t even read that with a straight face

by BucktheFroncos on Jan 31, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Good thoughts here

and props for the video game pics (I don’t think I ever beat Bad Dudes).

I agree with your logic about TJax, and I think he will continue to improve. Pioli knew what he was getting himself into with this guy. He wanted a foundational player. No flash was okay. Just a hard working football guy that will continue to get better and be a cornerstone in the defense. Mission accomplished…..

Pioli wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he continued to hit DL over and over again. I think he is gonna hammer the DL positions over and over until we have what he’s looking for. A dominant front that will allow the LB position to be more plug and play. I can’t say how I’d feel if he drafted another DE instead of going FA there, but I’m setting myself up now to see it.

One thing I will say is after seeing what a solid DL does for the 3-4 defense (playoff teams), I’m content to let Pioli place more focus here and roster churn at LB…

Congrats on the new baby!

2011 Draft Needs:
OL (C/RT), NT, WR, SOLB, depth..........

Big things poppin next year!

by Hail2DaChiefs on Jan 26, 2011 10:00 AM CST reply actions  

Thanks!

And yes, it all starts with the line. Frankly, I’d be stunned if he went DE again with all the depth we have there, but we sure do need some help at NT.

I feel bad for Edwards because he played OK for much of the season, but if Jackson doesn’t even improve next year (which I’m almost positive he will) Edwards will be the weak link on the line. We need a guy who can step in there and get Edwards where he belongs… As a NT who can come in and play very well if only called on for 15 or so snaps a game.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Raises hand

MN shouldn’t Edwards actually have the same snaps played if Jackson was healthy all season like Ron was? Base Defense vs both come off for Nickel/Dime.

rec on the post :)

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2011 5:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point

But Ron was in there more often in the 3-4 sets. Smith was spelling Jackson at DE more often than he was was spelling Edwards at NT. Which IMO was a mistake.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry to continue to do this...

But Smith wasn’t spelling Jackson, Jackson was spelling Smith.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

S-m-i-t-h

there, now I’m spelling Smith

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 26, 2011 6:32 PM CST up reply actions  

ha!

Up was spelling Smith, just like Jackson this year.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Nice :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Jackson started several games

But I’m not really concerned about technicalities, and that wasn’t my point at all. Here, how’s this… Smith was taking up a lot more snaps at LDE than at NT.

Better?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

I literally have no idea why she married me…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 31, 2011 9:48 PM CST up reply actions  

The last paragraph says it all.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 26, 2011 10:09 AM CST reply actions  

The last big paragraph...

Would that be the Wallace Gilberry comment? Or do you mean the last real paragraph?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

And so does Jackson. While the two aren’t EXACTLY the same…

My only question is that Kalo pointed out somewhere else that Jackson is complimented well by Gilberry, but do we want a third overall draft pick to have to be complemented by another player? I would expect a player selected that high to be a better all-around player than TJ has shown. He HAS shown improvement, but it’s not to the extent that we saw after two years of Dorsey, injury or not.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 26, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Complemented*
Wow, spelled the same word differently in the same reply.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 26, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I saw that. Good stuff :)

Not only in the same reply, but even the same sentence. Very impressive my friend.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree completely

I’m curious what they’re going to do about Gilberry and T-Jax. My theory is that since we’re in the 3-4 about half the time and nickel with 2 DL the other half, we may very well see them split snaps.

Here’s how I see it… If T-Jax continues to improve at the rate he as (albeit slower than Dorsey), he’ll be a better player than Smith next year and take the majority of his snaps even if we re-sign him. In that case, we’ll have an above average LDE and a very good RDE in our 3-4 snaps.

That would make him worth a high pick IMO. I get that he was taken high, but I place a very high premium on solid DL.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Another thing to remember about Jackson

is that as he improves, that improvement will likely also include improving as a pass-rusher (Dorsey was certainly better at collapsing the pocket on pass plays in 2010 than he was in 2009) – if that happens Gilberry may not be on the field as much

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree here

and I’m not a big TJax fan. I don’t think this is a big surprise to anyone who’s even paid the same attention MN does to his about-to-pop missus. Sorry, man. Couldn’t resist.

I will say that TJax has improved. But I believe that Dorsey is the better player because he is able to generate more of a pass rush.

What I like most about this post is “..do we want a third overall draft pick to have to be complemented by another player?” I find this very intriguing and I think this is one of my biggest concerns/beefs with the artist formerly known as TJax. I would like to know we don’t have to have a DE for each separate pass/run scenario. I’d like one guy to be able to do it all.

People like to compare TJax to Dorsey, which is all well and good. I think it is fair to say that by the end of year 2, Dorsey was already showing the ability to be much more influential in the run game. He was fairly invisible in pass pressure, but I understand (trust me I do) that the DE’s role in the 3-4 is not necessarily pass rush. Dorsey (was it year 2 or 3?) in the season where Cleveland went off for roughly 700 rushing yards, the only game he missed by the way, was already a stalwart run stopper and was showing some ability to get pressure (albeit inconsistent pressure).

Sure, TJax has shown development, but I digress to the previous quote, “..do we want a third overall draft pick to have to be complemented by another player?”

by SCKSChief on Jan 26, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

The CLE game was year two

And hopefully he develops enough to get a little pressure in next year, much the same way Dorsey did. Hopefully.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

The answer to your question is

does it give us a chance to compete and win big games? Why so hung up on what round the guy was drafted in? We didn’t do too bad in 2010, doesn’t that help make up for third round slack?

"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"

by Aiken_Drum on Jan 26, 2011 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Because the discussion is about whether or not drafting TJ at number three overall was a good decision. Does the rotation give us a chance to win? Of course, because they’re putting players in the best situation. But could the pick have netted us a guy that could have contributed more than Jackson currently does? At this point my answer is yes.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 26, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

But that is where the

coulda/woulda/shoulda breaks down. There is no way of knowing that these other players would have been as successful in our scheme with our players. MN makes a solid point in evaluating them against their own productivity from year to year because you are at least comparing them to the value that we know they have contributed here. You mention that at this point, your answer is yes. Even if Raji or anyone else goes on to be a complete bust, it still doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have been, conversely, very successful with the Chiefs. This is why I don’t get the endless discussions of who we should have picked instead of who we did. Would we have made the playoffs this last season if we had picked Raji instead of Jackson? There is simply no way to know. Just as there was no way to know that we would make the playoffs in 2010 when we picked Jackson. The draft has to be viewed from the perspective of how much does that one pick advance the improvement of the whole team, not just which talent is the best

"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"

by Aiken_Drum on Jan 26, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree for the most part

The coulda/woulda/shoulda game is fun, though :)

I’d be willing to bet at this point, knowing how well Dorsey would adapt to the 3-4 defense and how Gilberry would progress, Pioli would take Raji instead of Jackson. But there’s really no way of knowing.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 5:46 PM CST up reply actions  

He's not an idiot.

Of course he would take Raji. Anyone would.

I do think it is a little unfair to compare him just to Raji. It would’ve been a better pick, but you can almost always make a better pick.

It’s more of a fair, honest evaluation to just judge Jackson on his own, and not compare him to others.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 6:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree.

And that’s the kind of thinking I’m trying to encourage.

Personally, I’d rather have Matthews than Raji. Can you imagine him and Hali on the same team? QB’s would just retire before games out of fear…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:03 PM CST up reply actions  

And as I said a couple weeks ago:

Is there any other team that drafted a defensive player in the first round that has lived up to the hype outside of Green Bay?

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah, yes, Cushing was.

Orakpo was promptly moved away from a primary pass rusher to a 4-3 linebacker that first year. Now in the 3-4, he is putting up good numbers.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I figured him for a good 3-4 guy

He’s another one I would’ve maybe liked at SOLB.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, GB really hit that first round out of the park

A franchise NT and OLB in one round of the draft? Jeeze…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I got this ...
Jackson is complimented well by Gilberry

Gilberry my, you do look handsome on that Chiefs uniform, Mr Jackson
TJax why thank you, mr Gilberry, you look quite dapper in yours as well
Gilberry cheerio!

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 26, 2011 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Why the British accents?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I say, old chap ... you have an issue with the Brits?

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 26, 2011 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Nah

I’m just jealous of anyone with an accent?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

ditto

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:37 PM CST up reply actions  

And I have no idea why I put a question mark there...

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Would be nice to see the snap totals of week 17 and the playoffs

Also have to add into the evaluation that Haley made him a healthy scratch week 6.

Lastly, it is interesting that in Kalo’s evaluation, in his best games, he plays the least amount of snaps.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 10:12 AM CST reply actions  

True, but that can also be a matter of numbers getting a little diluted...

More snaps make it tougher to keep the ratio high. I’d argue that his best game was against San Diego, because to have such a high KPM/snap rating when taking 35 snaps is way more impressive to me than doing it with 15.

That said, I wish the numbers had been available for 17 and the playoffs as well.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

I watched Jackson closely in the playoff game

Like many of our opponents Baltimore chose to run at Dorsey/Hali (away from Jackson/Vrabel) but Jackson was consistently pushing his guard and tackle into the backfield which prevented a cutback lane from forming.

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the info

Did it seem like Jackson was in there a lot?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

even though Baltimore was throwing a lot, they were still using run formations (since all they had to do was wait for McGraw to hobble behind Heap).

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

That was cold

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd like to see McGraw on the field much less next year

Tough, smart guy, and I like him (exactly like Vrabel). But his time is up (again, exactly like Vrabel).

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

this ^^^

is why I want SOLB as well as NT

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 26, 2011 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

Need two starters on D, these are the postions.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 6:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm with you guys

We get those two positions and I’d be comfortable with every single spot on our defense.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Although to be fair, I like Edwards

But he’s just above average on his best day, and a little below average on a normal day.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Me too!

Sorry, I got excited there. You and I are usually on opposite sides of the debate, so it’s fun to agree with a couple of things in a row :)

I think Edwards would be a very good backup, getting about 10 snaps or so a game.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Ehh...

I don’t think we disagree all that much….I mean, you’re right sometimes :)

If we had a stud NT, Edwards could get some work subbing him, as well as in short yardage situations next to said stud NT.

Agree with comment below, seems to be a versatile veteran who would be willing to take on any roll (probably b/c he has).

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Also, he seems like a guy

Who would be willing to show a young NT the ropes a little…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Comparing Raji and Jackson

isn’t really a comparison, as they are in different situations and play different positions.

However, it doesn’t change my mind that Raji should have been the pick over Jackson in 2009. I understood the need for 3-4 DEs, but let’s face facts: pioli reached talent wise to fill one need over the other, as NT was also a need and like many have said, the most important position in the 3-4 defense.

Jackson may be improved from a run stopping standpoint, but I would like to see a stat showing where all of our sacks came from and with what personnel on the field, as I’m inclined to believe that most of Tamba’s sacks came from either lining up on Dorsey’s side and/or with his hand in the dirt. We know Jackson isn’t on the field when Gilberry is, and the other player sacks were minimal enough to believe Jackson hasn’t done enough to open up other pass rushing lanes.

"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter

by FalconMF27 on Jan 26, 2011 10:16 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

BTW

My first sentence was agreeing with u, Seth, even though it didn’t really come out like that :-)

"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter

by FalconMF27 on Jan 26, 2011 10:18 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah it was confusing for a second :)

I’m with you that Raji would’ve been a better pick. I believe that Pioli looked at our roster and saw at least two guys that were potential NT (Tyler and Edwards), whereas he looked at DE and saw… nothing.

Remember, we all had no idea at all how well Dorsey would do as a DE, and most thought he’d fail. So he could have felt that while NT was a need, DE was so desperate he had to pass over a more talented player.

IMO if I could have it back I’d take Matthews over either of them in a heartbeat though, or even Josh Freeman (I really like his game, even though I’m a Cassel fan)…

That stat you’re interested in is a good one. I’m curious about that too. I know Kalo gave him credit for eating quite a few double teams, but that may have been mostly against the run.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Another thought of the 2009 draft is...

Scott Pioli could have thought that Alex Magee could develop as a NT… or just that he could grab someone later that could fill in the hole after round 1.

Personally I was wanting Raji, and grabbed someone later for a DE.

Go Chiefs!!!!

by ravenhawk on Jan 26, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure about Magee at NT...

He’s even lighter than Jackson and Dorsey.

I genuinely think Pioli figured Dorsey wouldn’t be able to hack it as a 3-4 DE and that he was gonna need two guys right off the bat.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 5:48 PM CST up reply actions  

The reason I was saying that is because he played NT at Purdue...

might have been lighter, but already had the skillset to play DE/NT.

It was more of a 2 cents of what was going through Pioli’s head anyways. Back then and today I would have liked to see Raji drafted, and used Magee (whom I never would have guessed us picking up) as a possible DE. He did have some pretty decent games for us, but its all in retrospect now.

Go Chiefs!!!!

by ravenhawk on Jan 27, 2011 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Think on this?? DE in a 3/4 have a longer learning curve than do NT's.

Work from the outside, in, set your edge, set your secondary. work your way in.

Pioli brought in all kinds of LB inside and outside to camp, kept the cream to develop. If he is right, when he is done plug in an even average NT to team with Edwards and BOOM, top 5 D.

Did you notice that Torbo or whatever his name was, was listed as an inactive virtually all season. What if by next year he has pulled a Belcher and Bulked and muscled up with a full season, and off season of conditioning

by Mark in Ga. on Jan 26, 2011 6:33 PM CST up reply actions  

That would be nice

We can always dream.

I do think that with our players still developing (Flowers, Carr, Dorsey, Jackson, Belcher, Berry, and Lewis are all guys that have improved and should keep doing so), we’re a legit NT and maybe an improved SOLB away from being a scary, scary defense.

I really wish the coaches had given Studebaker more playing time last year. It would’ve been nice to see what he can do.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Studie is a quality backup.

We’ve got to have a significant upgrade there, though. Studie’s run D isn’t good (I mean, Vrabel kept him off the field), and he’s a situational pass rusher at this point.

However, he’s a guy that you can put on the field and trust that he’ll play well enough not to hurt your defense.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Ideally Vrabel retires (or joins the coaching staff)

Stude remains in his backup roll (maybe with a few more snaps) and a SOLB comes in via FA or the draft.

Possibly #1 area of need on the D.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 7:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup. Again, as we discussed, SOLB and NT are my two top needs.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:17 PM CST up reply actions  

and mine, and gatsby, and Steve, and about a bazillion of us

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 26, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I want a RB!

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I want Woodley!!!!

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

You know, the Steelers DO have a history of letting LB's walk...

Do you have any idea what I would give for him to join our team? Talk about the EXACT right fit for our biggest need…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd throw the bank and Up's at him

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

He and Stephen Tulloch in FA would be an absolute coup.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I seriously cannot IMAGINE Pit letting him go...

But that’s what people said about Porter too, and Foote to a lesser extent…

That would be quite a pair of upgrades at ILB and SOLB…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

yes

I like Belcher a lot, and since he didn’t play Division 1-A football, he may still improve by leaps and bounds (think of the difference in Carr from last year, his sophomore campaign, to this one), but that position needs to be upgraded by him improving or acquiring someone else. Belcher needs to hit the proper gap a little harder and faster and needs serious improvement in his coverage skills. Now I’m not expecting Ray Lewis-esque skills in coverage (that freak can hang with halfbacks 50 pounds lighter than he is) but Belcher has to be able to stay with a TE down the seam or running across the field (since he can’t, we had to use McGraw in that role…)

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 8:55 PM CST up reply actions  

You're exactly right

We need Belcher to get way better in coverage. And maybe he will…

Good example with Carr and the amount of improvement coming from a small school. And Belcher HAS grown by leaps and bounds.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Remember It usually takes a year of starting and going into the second for a LB to become comfortable with the speed of the game.

The game slows down for them and then they begin to make better and faster decisions.

I think Belcher will be fine, and Studie will be adequate in his first year.

In my mind the two postitions on D we have to address is NT he will make all the other front ;ine guys, especially Belcher better, and one more good safety, which will give us additional versatility in the things and schemes we run as a defense, in addition to more depth

by Mark in Ga. on Jan 27, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I like Studie as a situational pass rusher

But he’s just so weak against the run. It’s not a recognition thing with him, it’s a strength thing.

I’d like to see a NT too, but a more solid SOLB would really help us as well.

IMO Belcher is a better player at this point that Studie. I believe that he has the physical tools and needs a little more time is all.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Also recognition

One example I can cite is the Raider game in KC when he chased the TE across the formation, for no real reason, when Berry was obviously manned up on him. Campbell took off around the end for about 30 on 3rd and 18 or something.

by SCKSChief on Jan 28, 2011 7:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Very true. I remember that play (throws up in mouth)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 28, 2011 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Does anyone know

How Von Miller is against the run?

Could he handle SOLB or is he more of a pure pass rusher?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Aaaaaand you lost me.

I do very little draft stuff until it gets MUCH closer.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I am not an expert nor have I watched film

But I’ve read a lot of comments here and from what I’ve read he is a pure-pass rusher.

LarryMcD has a scouting website you could check out, pretty good stuff there.

http://proprospects.wordpress.com/

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Lar has him pegged as a pure pass-rusher...

I disagree.

Regardless, he’ll be gone before we pick.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Only game I saw was the Bowl game and he did not look good in coverage that game

But I’ll take the word of people who have watched him more than I have.

I would really like to get someone who can play well from day 1 at that position. If a rookie 1st rounder can do that, great, if not, I’d like to go BIG on a guy like Woodley IF he was available.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Woodley would be tremendous.

I just don’t see us having a shot at him.

But who knows?

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 8:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope he's not this years Wilfork

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 8:18 PM CST up reply actions  

You mean where people obsess over him

Only to be disappointed when he’s franchised?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 8:51 PM CST up reply actions  

yes......that

A franchise NT MUST be drafted….teams don’t let those guys just leave.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 9:11 PM CST up reply actions  

We definitely learned that last year

Franklin, WIlfork, Hampton, and Pickett were all supposed to hit the market… and none did.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:06 AM CST up reply actions  

I see it as more likely than if he played for any other team

The Steelers are more than willing to let high-price LB’s walk.

But I still don’t see it happening. A SOLB who is solid in all aspects of the game is just too valuable a commodity.

BTW, I know this is off topic, but have you seen the list of FA WR’s this year? If we don’t get a legit #2 WR in FA it’ll be embarrassing.

There’s at least 8 guys who i think would seriously upgrade the position… I personally like Sidney Rice

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 8:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes I have, and yes, I agree

It’s the main reason I’m assuming we don’t go WR in the first 3 rounds.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with this

I won’t mind if we don’t draft a WR at all.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 9:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Same here

I’ll be embarrassed if we don’t upgrade at WR during free agency.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely true...

We need a FA WR and don’t be surprised if we also go WR in draft at somewhere in mid rounds.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 28, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I really hope Vrabel doesn't try to play another year

Or if he does, I really hope he doesn’t start and/or get significant snaps.

I really like Studie, I just wish he was about 10-15 pounds heavier so he could hold up against the run.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Five guys that are at that point of diminishing returns.

Time is running out for these vets:
WR – Chambers – 10 years.
NT – R Edwards – 10 years.
LB – M Vrabel – 14 years.
C – C Wiegmann – 15 years.
RB – T Jones – 11 years.

They just happen to be 5 out of our 7 most crucial needs for next year. The 6th need would be OT (Upgrade/depth). The seventh is backup QB.

Thankfully we seem to be set with a D-Line rotation that only needs an Elite NT prospect to become truely beastly.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 28, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Those are all positions of concern

Although Weigmann played very well for most of last year. He just struggled against the big physical lines of OAK and BAL.

I personally would like to see Asamoah get plugged in there a little more next year. Younger legs, stronger guy, and he seemed to hold his own out there in limited action this year.

I think Edwards has something left in the tank, but not as a starter. His play gradually dropped off as the game (and year) went on…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 28, 2011 6:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd like Asamoah to stick at guard

If he can help out at center, great, but I’d prefer to get another player at center. Then Asamoah can take over at RG when Waters retires. Lilja slides to LG where he played for the Colts unless he retires or is released/traded himself.

Of course, I also have some hope for Darryl Harris to take the center spot. If not, I think he can be the C/G swing guy. Then again, I could be placing too much hope on the guy. Either way, I hope we draft another center prospect.

by bh13 on Jan 28, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

only cause noone runs at him

in passing situations and we got McGraw to handle the TE’s and Gilberry to rush the QB

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2011 7:17 PM CST up reply actions  

They do run at him in the nickel occasionally.

He gets blown off the line more than I’d like.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Stude will be a nice back-up.

I love the value he may provide as a non-drafted FA.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 28, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Very well put

he’s a nice BACK UP. Studebaker is a role player. I don’t see him as ever being THE guy.

by SCKSChief on Jan 31, 2011 6:30 PM CST up reply actions  

A Bust...I can;t say that...perhaps a disappointment...

is he living up to a 3rd overall pick? I would say definitely not…yet. I expect someone drafted that high to be a “full-time” player…

I am interested to see how he does next year.

First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...

by SFLChief on Jan 26, 2011 10:17 AM CST reply actions  

Me too

I’m just glad he improved so much from his rookie year. Of course, he was horrible for much of his rookie year, so it wasn’t too hard to make a big jump :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Texans's Mario Williams was a huge dissapointment for a couple of years.

He was a 1st overall that many thought was a bad pick. I think he went to probowl in 2009 and 2010.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 28, 2011 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep. People expect rookies to jump right in and do awesome if they're picked in the top 15

Despite the fact that it almost never happens.

People will point to the very rare exceptions like Suh, Berry, and Clay Matthews and say, “See! First round picks are supposed to be great, and if OUR GM knew what he was doing our rookies would be that good!”

The problem is for every Suh, Berry, and Matthews there are about a dozen first rounders who make very little impact their first few years.

You’d think after watching it time after time after time people would get that… but nope, if your pick isn’t great by his second year he’s a bust.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 28, 2011 6:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Well... kind of

He had two sacks in the first game, then really didn’t make much of an impact until the 2nd half of the season. He had 10 of his 14 sacks in the last 7 games that year.

So he was a disappointment for a year and a half, not two years :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 31, 2011 9:50 PM CST up reply actions  

O....K.....
14 sacks

This is pretty much my point. That’s the best of his career…

by kcsno56 on Feb 1, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

My point still stands

He wasn’t awesome until the second half of that year. For the entire first half of that year there was constant talk on how stupid they were for taking him number 1.

That’s the problem with looking only at end of year stats. The original point by Cat was that Williams was a disappointment. You made it sound like he wasn’t a disappointment at all his entire second year. IMO you were nitpicking, so I nitpicked it a little further. I’d hoped you would get the point about quibbling over rather insignificant details (although to be fair, I do it too).

Follow? :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 1, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

ugh

Ok, I’ll actually go through this.

In the first game of his 2nd year, he had 2 sacks. So I’m guessing right then that quieted doubters.

Then another in game 5, so 3 in 5 games. Another game 4, so 4 in 8 games, still very solid and on pace for 8 for a season, which would be solid for a 2nd year player. Then he exploded in the 2nd half.

If you are going to tell me you remember the conversation the beginning of the ‘07 season as opposed to middle and the end of the ’07 season, and that there was talk in that month and half stretch still that he was a bust but not at the end…well, congrats on having a much better memory than me. I don’t remember it that way at all, but I’ll be the first to say I don’t remember the talk of that stretch about a player in Houston. Sorry. You are a savant, and I bow to you. ;)

I think the point was that he was comparing him to Jackson, and if that’s the point, then Mario completely outperfomed Jackson (even though the stats are not comparable-I’ll agree) in his first and 2nd season.

by kcsno56 on Feb 1, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry. You are a savant, and I bow to you. ;)

NOW you’re getting the idea :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 1, 2011 8:55 PM CST up reply actions  

And he was 2nd team all-pro in '07

So I’m going to stand by my statement, which was that he was awesome. Not ‘kind of’ awesome, but awesome.

And I’ll continue to disagree that he was a disappointment, even in the first half.

by kcsno56 on Feb 1, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Welcome back MN!

You mean you skated out on us for wimpy priorities like family and law school? Pfft.

Most of this team is very young. Improvement is needed across the board by a number of players. As they grow into their roles and get better as players, getting some cohesion becomes an important factor. I can see this defense melding together each game. TJax is just one cog. But he is getting better.

Of course, his progress will only continue if Cassel stops sucking!
/preemptive strike

by Ozarks on Jan 26, 2011 10:36 AM CST reply actions  

Well played on the preemptive strike

We are pretty young. I think it’s been so long since we’ve seen young players actually develop the way they’re supposed to that we’ve become jaded about “player development” as a part of team improvement.

OT (well, kind of), I’m absolutely STOKED to see how Berry looks next year. He got so much better as the year went along (and he wasn’t that bad to start off with). It was unbelievable the progress he made understanding coverages. With another entire offseason to learn the game? Yikes.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

This along with the number of “good” DLinemen we already have makes me think that the number one pick will be at LBer. Of course, we could always use an upgrade under center.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 26, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I can't figure it out

There aren’t any NT prospects that scream “1st rounder!” this year…

I think you may be right about LB, whether it’s inside to replace Belcher or outside to replace Vrabel/Stude. An upgrade at either position would really help our D out.

I just really hope we sign a decent WR in FA, because I don’t want to worry about us drafting a WR in the first…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm with SFL, somewhat disappointed with lack of production for a high pick

Yeah I know the arguments about 3 years development time. That is why I am in favor of drafting play makers who can start with early picks. Why waste tons of $’s and a couple of years. I will say that I think Jackson can play and will be a fine Chief. Developing players with top five picks for 3 years down the road is questionable in my estimation.

by dubld on Jan 26, 2011 10:45 AM CST reply actions  

It depends I suppose

Importance of position, longevity of the players at the position, ceiling of the player… all those things come into play as well.

But I’m with you, it’s tough to wait it out. I’m very optimistic about next year though. Like I said in my post, if T-Jax can improve half as much as he did between his 1st and 2nd year we’ll have a very good set of DE’s. And that makes every single other player’s job easier.

I wouldn’t mind seeing an LB (inside or outside) playmaker as our pick this year though, that’s for sure.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

It's the nature of the position. How many 3 4 DE have you seen com in and dominate???

In a 4 3 the end is a glory position, sacks and such. In the 3 4 it is like an offensivce lineman, you don’t even know his name. If you hear nothing about him, then he is doing his job

by Mark in Ga. on Jan 26, 2011 6:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Basic logics dictates

that if a 3rd overall pick is losing playing time to an undrafted, off-the-street free agent (Shaun Smith) then he’s not who they thought he’d be. Or if he is who they thought he’d be, Chiefs brass completely whiffed on the pick.

D.J. #56 - Pay The Man & Play The Man

by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 26, 2011 11:38 AM CST reply actions  

I think Smith was brought in as part of the NT rotation

and when Jackson was injured we were lucky that Smith played well at LDE. Had Jackson played all 16 games injury free I don’t think we would have seen as much Smith at DE.

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

And the 35 snaps Jackson too at DE against SD would seem to indicate that fact.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

So are you of the opinion that he was hurt all year?

Never healthy? I suppose that’s an opinion to have, but it seems pretty optimistic.

He was healthy enough to play, according to Haley, week 6. Week 16 the last game we have data from, he got 15 total snaps.

I think KCShuf’s concern is completely valid.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 6:39 PM CST up reply actions  

The point was that the original plan was to play Jackson the vast majority of the snaps

Then after he got hurt, Smith came in and played far, far better at DE than the coaches expected. Jackson played about equally well when he came back, so they rotated them to keep them fresh.

I find it hysterical that people who never believe a word Haley says about anything would trust him on the ONE thing ALL coaches lie about… the injury report.

The bottom line to me is that it’s not as if Jackson lost snaps to someone who was playing poor football. Smith was playing pretty well, and I for one am impressed that a 2nd year DL was able to play just as well (especially when you consider how bad he was last year).

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 6:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Other than motivating Jackson, what would be the benefit of telling your opponent that a player is hurt?

I agree he was partially trying to motivate Jackson. I don’t love that he felt the need to motivate him in the media at that point in time.

Smith was playing pretty solid. I am not personally overly impressed that our #3 overall pick was able to play ‘just as well’ (I would disagree with this, judging by how the coaches used to the two players) as a journeyman street FA DL. Smith was a very pleasant surprise, won’t deny that. Jackson needs to make a major step this offseason and establish himself as the ‘anchor’ starter Pioli envisioned. He’s got a long way to go, but I’m not giving up….yet.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 7:04 PM CST up reply actions  

To be fair, Shaun Smith under Crennel is about 90 billion times better than without him.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely, agreed

But even in Cleveland with pretty average D’s, he was a part time starter under Romeo.

I like him, and want him back…I just think he’s still a roll player on a good D, not an every-down starter.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 7:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

And as you and I discussed yesterday, I’m of the opinion that a healthy TJax outplays him and gets more snaps next year.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

That's the $57 million dollar question!

I hope you’re right. I hope it’s not even a question.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 7:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Good points all

Although he said Jackson was healthy, not that he was hurt.

I’m happy with Jackson’s progress so far. However, you’re right that he needs to take another step forward to be an anchor of the defense.

And I think he will. Like I’ve said a few times, if he improves even half as much this offseason as he did last offseason, he’ll be a good starter.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe...

Or one could look at it like this… A second year player was able to take a lot of playing time away from a veteran who was playing very solid football.

You can use Smith’s status as an undrafted guy who we got as a FA to knock TJax, but Smith played some good ball this year. The fact that Jackson was able to take playing time back from Smith when he returned from injury speaks volumes to how much better he was this year than last.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

This
The fact that Jackson was able to take playing time back from Smith when he returned from injury speaks volumes to how much better he was this year than last.

With Smith playing well the 2009 version of TJax never sees the field after recovering from his injury…

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

People look at Smith and say, “he’s a journeyman, and he outplayed Jackson!” like it’s some sort of condemnation. But Smith had a very solid year for us.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't have the data anymore

But I thought I remember Jackson playing most every defensive snap in 2009 under Pendergast’s scheme

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2011 5:41 PM CST up reply actions  

He did

Very badly :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

The thing is I think this coming year Pioli was aiming for the big breakout

and Jackson is right on schedule with that part of the plan. The man is surely organized and dedicated to his plan of action so it is hard to fault Jackson’s pick.

by dubld on Jan 26, 2011 12:09 PM CST reply actions  

Hmmm... Well...

Do i think Ty Jax will become Darnell Dockett. Nope. (and maybe thats a good thing with Docketts want to run his mouth). I do think his injury set him back a bit. Most of us understand 3-4 DE technique compared to 4-3 DE. What i do think will evolve of Ty jax is a Rotation Player. He and Sean Smith split time at DE to keep someone fresh. He’s playing behind a completely new staff defensively. So i think the jury is still out on this one. As far as him being a bust i guess that depends on what u expect from a #3. The 09 draft was probably one of the worst classes raw talent wise. Read around, it was kind of a Coach’em Up draft. We all knew he was a reach at #3, and i think we are reaping a bit of the benefits of such a long armed draft pick. It’s possible we had explored some options thru FA at the DE postion and got flat denied by Agents and Players. Soooo… We got Ty jax. I’d say lets give the man sometime to prove himself, He’s basically got 20-22 nfl games under his belt. Probably half that many as a starter. If it turns out he cant make the grade after the upcoming season then we can doom and gloom about the dreaded “09 draft 1st rd”. Just remember busts happen, Pioli isnt perfect. As a consolation prize we did get Succop.

by Kuhmmish on Jan 26, 2011 12:35 PM CST reply actions  

Red Doc

nice anology

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2011 5:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm with Steve. Rec'd

That was a very good analogy and a great breakdown of the current situation.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm with MN ... Steve I'm not so sure of ;-)

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 26, 2011 7:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Great comment

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Grrr

damn you for making sense! LOL

by SCKSChief on Jan 27, 2011 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Doc, don't confuse the issue with logic.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 28, 2011 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Look at the Cleveland game last year

Dorsey was out and Cleveland was running all over us. It showed how little depth we had at DE. If you go back and loot at the 09 draft Jackson was considered the best 3-4 DE in the draft, so Pioli had to reach and get him because it is usually tough to trade down out of the first few draft picks especial in such a lot talent draft.
So you have to wonder, would every game have been like the Cleveland game if we had not drafted Jackson?

by krull1313 on Jan 26, 2011 1:09 PM CST reply actions  

I doubt that

Because Dorsey was a much, much better player than Jackson last year (although Jackson was starting to come around near the end).

But very good point about our lack of depth. Now we’ve got Dorsey, Jackson, and Gilberry for sure. A very good rotation of DE’s, even if we don’t re-sign Smith.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 6:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyson Jackson's role

The “Romeo Crennel” 3-4 system is known as a two gap system, because each of the defensive linemen are required to cover the gaps to both sides of the offensive lineman that try to block them. Defensive linemen in this system tend to be stouter, as they need to be able to hold their place without being overwhelmed in order to allow the linebackers behind them to make plays. This is the reason that defensive linemen such as Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork do not always rack up sack and tackle statistics despite their critical importance to the team.

Someone else’s words

meh...

by Chief-blinders-on on Jan 26, 2011 2:22 PM CST reply actions  

Well said

Whoever said it :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 6:43 PM CST up reply actions  

psst

If we want to stay optimistic, don’t, I repeat, don’t look up Seymour and Wilfork’s stats. Trust me.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Haha good advice

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Seymour is an exception

He’ll be in the HOF…one of the best pass rushes ever from the 3-4 end. He can do all the things you expect from a 3-4 end AND rush the QB like a solid 4-3 end. I’m not looking it up while typing on my phone but I think Wilfork has only had a few years where he had more sacks than you’d expect from a nose guard

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 9:04 PM CST up reply actions  

TJax: comparisons and bust

Is he a bust? Too early to make that judgment. Comparisons, in most situations are not the way to judge certain players.

Who cares about TJ’s stats. Does he play with passion and give max effort are a better way to judge him from a fans perspective. It is just my opinion that he passes the test on both those qualities. The coaching staff has expectations of him and if they are satisfied with his progression then I am as well.

During TJ and Dorsey’s CFB careers, Dorsey was much more dominant in CFB than Jackson. At the NFL level TJ is a much more promising prospect even at this stage than Dorsey. TJ has better speed and plays with a passion that Dorsey doesn’t seem to match and he may well become better than Dorsey. Time will tell.

I’m not hating on Glenn. He is playing well against the run and gets good penetration and at least in my opinion is a quality player the Chiefs will need going forward.

by chief66 on Jan 26, 2011 3:04 PM CST reply actions  

I disagree with

 “At the NFL level TJ is a much more promising prospect even at this stage than Dorsey”

I can only speculate and guess but I’d be willing to bet the house that Dorsey will end up having a more finer career than TJ. Not a knock on TJ but I knew when TJ was coming out, he would never dominate the NFL. It’s just he isn’t that talented. With Glenn Dorsey, the sky is the limit and I believe he won’t reach his potenitial until year 5. I say that because he it would be in year 3 of the 3-4. Also Dorsey is showing no visible signs of slowing down.

Motivation is a fire from within, if someone else lights it, chances are it will burn briefly

by CasselKiLLer on Jan 26, 2011 5:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I remember when we first drafted him

At the Press conference a reporter asked Pioli if he compared Jackson to Seymour. Pioli said something to tune of “I don’ think it’s fair to compare a rookie player to anyone else who has been in the league”

Can we be the AFC West Champions in 2010. You better believe it
Hali and Flowers are Pro Bowlers, even if the NFL fails to realise it

by trentchiefsfan on Jan 30, 2011 2:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Nice work MN, welcome back

So let’s stop comparing him to others around the league and ask ourselves, “Is he much better than last year?”

I agree with this statement completely. We cannot play the ‘coulda/woulda/shoulda’s’ in regards to draft picks and FA scenarios. The only thing that is certain is what has happened. TJax is getting better and we’ve all learned around here that fans tend to give up on a player long before the coaches and the people that are around him everyday. See DJ/Bowe/Cassel/Albert/Dorsey.

It seems as if the players that ‘some’ fans have given up on in the past have become the cornerstones of this team for the future. I think that TJax will be the next player on that list.

And Rec’d!!!

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 3:18 PM CST reply actions  

Careful there Bajah

implying that ‘some’ fans have given up on Chiefs players could easily be considered a ‘divisive’ statement. I don’t want you getting in dutch around here. I’m that kick dog. :>)

"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"

by Aiken_Drum on Jan 26, 2011 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

You always warn me about this :) thank you

I can link up past posts about trading Dorsey/Cassel/Albert/Dorsey as some kind of a ’I’m not just trying to stir crap’ proof.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

in full disclosure I was a part of one of those ideas

But mine was trading Dorsey to Detriot to trade up and get Suh.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Had Dorsey not shown the improvement he did over last season I think we might have done that

But when it looked like Dorsey was a very good a prospect at 3-4 end, a position that Suh had never played, why give up a pick for a different very good prospect?

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 9:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Berry is going to be very, very good

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions  

yes he is

I’m really glad SwimCoach was right

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I am really not being too serious

here…just helps me feel better about myself knowing that others make the same kind of comments. I didn’t take this as you being divisive at all. You are one of the more levelheaded posters here. I’m just exercising my sarcasm with someone who doesn’t take offense. Thanks.

"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"

by Aiken_Drum on Jan 26, 2011 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I know...I got it :)

I always get where people are coming from, I just don’t always agree.

It’s the “Madden’ists” that create some entertaining offseason discussions. This offseason it will be selling the farm for Fitz I think.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe...

then again it might be that we don’t get Tamba under contract. I have a feeling that is one scenario that will take a long while to play out because of the CBA. Who knows what madness lurks in the mind of Pioli?

"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"

by Aiken_Drum on Jan 26, 2011 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

makes sense...I think it'll get done though

Kind of like panicking that JC would walk….

Hate to see posteuring but it’s nice that Hali doesn’t talk to the media because it could cause a frenzy here till it gets done.

No doubt in my mind that Hali resigns here. At worst, we franchise him and get the deal done by training camp. He’s not going anywhere. I hope they can get it done soon though so our ‘money guys’, like McCracken know how much we have to work with in regards to FA’s.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

If we don't, or do for that matter...

I think we could go back to the 4-3 and be bad as can be, quicker than the 3-4. Just one more DJ type LB’er would do it.

by 12t on Jan 26, 2011 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

who is our mike?

Not Belcher…people would kick his ass down the seam all day long with play action. He can’t hang with good tight ends

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 9:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't fix everything over night...

I’ll agree, we need two cover guys…lb’s…but I’m willing to give him another year. I think the best thing for our D will be the safties having a year under thier belts, and an O’ that can convert on third down, or first.

by 12t on Jan 27, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks Bajah

I think you’re probably right. It cracks me up that time and again we (and I include myself in this at times) give up on a player so quickly, even if he’s improving.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 6:50 PM CST up reply actions  

It's an instant gratification world

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I blame the microwave

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I blame Al Gore

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Holy Crap

Batman

NO internet?

Chit

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2011 7:16 PM CST up reply actions  

How did the world ever go 'round?

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:21 PM CST up reply actions  

it was flat, doncha know

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 26, 2011 7:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I read that once

What happened?

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I Reference DJ...

everybody here was bashing him last season, asking to use him as trade bait. He was a former 1st round pick and it took him a little longer to blossom than most, but he most definitely blossomed this season. So I say yes, TJax is showing improvement and he will continue to do so. It may or may not be next season, but he will eventually show off his full potential. When that happens, we’re going to need that strong NT to keep the middle of the line in check because Dorsey and TJax will be collapsing from the outside. Besides, he’s already showing that he can improve and based off what I’ve seen, he still has room for growth.

Oh, and as a married man who has gone through the pregnancy thing 3 times, I rec you for this comment alone…

Some lame excuse about being eight and a half months pregnant and needing more help, or something like that. I wasn’t really paying attention.

2010 Chiefs are on the rise. This is the most excited I've been since 'Nam...

by kcchiefsfan72 on Jan 26, 2011 4:13 PM CST reply actions  

Haha thanks

My wife reads these so I like putting little obnoxious jabs in there :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 6:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Was even funnier about the not paying attention part.

My wife is always referencing past conversations and when I say I don’t remember that, she will say something to the effect of, “Ya see, you never listen to me.” To which I reply, “What?”

2010 Chiefs are on the rise. This is the most excited I've been since 'Nam...

by kcchiefsfan72 on Jan 27, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Same here...

I think it’s because women are programmed to wait until we’re focused on something else before they want our attention.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Good post as always MN.

Take good care of that wife, she may be carrying the future President of the USA. Or even better, the future NFL commissioner!!

"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"

by Aiken_Drum on Jan 26, 2011 4:55 PM CST reply actions  

That would be fantastic

The commish part, not the president one :)

The last thing I need is media delving into my past…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

So...

I shouldn’t have pointed you out to that NY Times reporter as an up an comer? OOOPS!

"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"

by Aiken_Drum on Jan 26, 2011 9:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh...

and, I wouldn’t call him a bust yet (like to wait till they are done growing), but pretty sure we couldn’t trade him for a #1, or 2, 3?

by 12t on Jan 26, 2011 6:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Possibly...but I doubt it.

And only possibly because we’ve already given him almost all of his guaranteed $, and he’s a really cheap player now for a team that would acquire him.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I like that

but if we are picking 20+ every year it would be even better

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2011 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I like that we paid them sooo much and we're still under 'the cap'

The contracts get smaller and our ability to grab some key FA’s gets bigger

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Amen to that

Cassel’s contract goes down this year as well, doesn’t it?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Per Rotoworld

7/14/2009: Signed a six-year, $63 million contract. The deal contains $28 million guaranteed, including a $10 million roster bonus in the first year. 2011: $4.75 million (+ $7.5 million option bonus), 2012: $5.25 million, 2013: $7.5 million, 2014: $9 million, 2015: Free Agent

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

It's like they said

We’re not going to be very good for the first couple of years and you will get knocked around and you will be frustrated with all the drops, but you will be getting paid A LOT of money.

Then it becomes, you might not be getting paid as much but the team is much better.

In conclusion, the QB is ALWAYS happy.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 8:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Sweet!

We’ve got serious money to burn… wisely, of course.

That’s why I don’t worry about Hali, Flowers, Carr, Bowe, etc.

We have plenty of $ to keep them all and still add to the team.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 8:05 PM CST up reply actions  

exactly

PLUS we didn’t overpay to keep Charles or DJ.

They have set this organization up to be very attractive to FA’s and in keeping our own guys around.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 8:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I think it’ll pay off with at least one great signing this offseason.

I predict a significant upgrade at WR. Rice, Breaston, Floyd, Jackson, Smith, Holmes, Williams… Any of those guys would get me psyched.

If we’re lucky maybe we’ll even nab an upgrade at LB.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 8:53 PM CST up reply actions  

It's nice that we are narrowing down positions of need

I completely agree that WR is the one position that we could potentially get two FA guys.

A Lance Moore or Devery Henderson even.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 26, 2011 9:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Either of them would be an upgrade over Chambers

But I hope we go bigger. Rice or Jackson would be my preference.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Dont forget Floyd :)

There are tons of WR’s out there.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 27, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh I like FLoyd a lot

Also Holmes, Breaston, and more than a few others.

Those two (Rice and Jackson) would just be my preference. Both are receivers with skills on par with Bowe, which takes away the option of any double teaming.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I love Floyd

and Lizzy and Zepplin too

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 27, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't trust anyone who makes up his own metrics.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:03 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

Damn Right

has Football Outsiders signed you up yet?

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2011 7:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Football Outsiders beats the crap out of my stuff.

Plus, my motivation is…uhhh…lacking at times.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

So the motor runs hot and cold?

maybe not Pioli material :)

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2011 7:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I enjoy beer.

So…there’s that.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Ha! Good point

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the shout out, though!

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, you saved me about 5 hours worth of dissecting tape...

So it was a well earned h/t

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Five? =)

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't have been nearly as thorough as you :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Hahahaha!

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2011 7:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Recommended!

Thought I’d spell it out. Anyway, great post. I agree 100%. Im a big T-jax and Dorsey fan.
It would be cool if the NFL allowed public opinion to build a team for 1 season. I’ll bet they wouldn’t win a game.

"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite

by Enite on Jan 26, 2011 7:20 PM CST reply actions  

That's a given.

"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite

by Enite on Jan 26, 2011 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Scott Pioli could have drafted an end table and AP could convince themselves that was a good pick

Didn’t like the pick then, hate it now.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 26, 2011 8:49 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Ouch

Didn’t know you threw me in there with the dreamers…

I didn’t say it was that good a pick. I’m just saying he’s not a bust. Doesn’t make him a star either…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 8:54 PM CST up reply actions  

This is funny

And fairly accurate…and I reckon’

I also agree.

by kcsno56 on Jan 26, 2011 8:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait Craig

Then, when you had never seen Jackson play you didn’t like the pick but now, after you saw him improve considerably from year one to year two, you HATE the pick?

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 9:13 PM CST up reply actions  

improve considerably from year one to year two,

You can wrap bacon around a rabbit turd which would improve it considerably. It’s still a rabbit turd though.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 26, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions  

never mind

I should know better by now…

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 26, 2011 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess that was overly snarky

I just don’t see the considerable improvement that you did.
But, I’d love to be proven wrong and 3rd year is generally the break out year for rookies, so I guess we’ll see.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 27, 2011 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

How would you wrap bacon around a rabbit pellet?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Canadian Bacon?...

First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...

by SFLChief on Jan 27, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, let's think about it...

let’s say it’s a relatively long end table… say about 3 feet. That’s 3 feet of space it’s eating up that a RB has to go around.

See? You’re right.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:13 AM CST up reply actions  

On the other side of the coin

The Chiefs could have drafted Matthews and Craig would be saying we should have drafted Raji. It’s no disrespect to Craig, but the man lives to argue about the Chiefs. While I disagree with him, he’s someone on the site who makes it interesting because you can have a legit discussion.

We're the same team as last year, except incredibly better, and with new players.

by Flowers24 on Jan 27, 2011 12:14 AM CST reply actions  

Your sig is phenomenal

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 27, 2011 8:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes I believe that TJax will improve next year

its just he was the #3 pick in the whole entire draft. When you are drafting in a top 10 draft position, your team most likely doesnt have the time to wait on 50 million dollar investments to grow. Top picks should always make immediate impact in some shape or form. If we drafted him in the 2nd round (where he was projected) I would be fine with where he is now, but hes not, hence my disappointment.

by JC25FoMVP on Jan 27, 2011 3:23 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Except we did
When you are drafting in a top 10 draft position, your team most likely doesnt have the time to wait on 50 million dollar investments to grow.

Pioli and company knew this was a long term build. They knew it was likely going to be 3-4 years before we were competitive again. Sure we ended up having a really nice season in year two, but there was no way to predict that.

They wanted to switch to the 3-4 and at the time, our roster didn’t appear to have a single 3-4 DE. Pioli took the guy he felt could anchor one side of the line, knowing it would likely take him a few years to truly start showing he was worth it. In theory, Jackson should start to hit his stride right around the time we start to become truly, consistently competitive. We had the time to wait on him to do that because the rest of the team wasn’t ready yet either.

In the end, I know it’s not a popular thing to say but we need to forget where he was drafted and how much he’s making. The pick has been made. The money is spent. Now he’s just another player on our team and we’re all hoping he turns into the guy Pioli thought he’d be. Personally, I think he’s on his way. We’ll see soon enough.

If we drafted him in the 2nd round (where he was projected)

Early on, maybe. By the time the draft rolled around, I’m pretty sure he was expected to be picked by a 3-4 team in the first. There was talk of Denver grabbing him if I remember right. I won’t deny he was a reach, but he wasn’t a second rounder by the time the draft rolled around.

by bh13 on Jan 27, 2011 9:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I understand your stance on Tjax

I agree that players are just players when the draft is over. I just didnt like the fact that he was a liability his rookie year. He’s steadily improving and I hope Dorsey, a new Nose, Smith, and Jackson can all progress. We’ve got the DB’s, we need a OLB, we need a NT. Once we cover those holes I think the DL will improve very fast.

by JC25FoMVP on Jan 28, 2011 6:55 PM CST up reply actions  

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