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Chiefs GM Scott Pioli Says Tyson Jackson Is 'Starting To Make His Mark'

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Earlier today while writing about GM Scott Pioli's appearance on NFL Network, I said the Kansas City Chiefs 2010 draft class "looks to be a masterpiece". While I'll stand by those words, not everyone agrees with me. What I think most, if not all, will agree with me on is that the 2009 draft class is not a masterpiece for the Chiefs (or anyone, really). 

The Chiefs GM talked about Tyson Jackson, the top selection in the Chiefs 2009 draft, in an appearance on NFL Network down at the Senior Bowl on Monday. 

Star-divide

"He was a player that we felt could fit the scheme we wanted to run," Pioli said. "We knew he could be the left defensive end of the future. One of the things we looked at with this player in particular was that we knew he wasn't going to be a big flash guy -- he wasn't going to have a lot of sacks. We just knew that we needed a cornerstone defensive lineman that could play the position and play the technique the way that we wanted to.

"It was a couple of conversations I had with some former coaches and other people in terms of who would be the right kind of player and who could do the right things. So far he's fit in really well and done the things we've wanted to do. Now that we're running this particular defense that we're evolving to with Romeo Crennel, he's starting to make his mark."

(Emphasis mine)

While I do think through two years Jackson may be closer to the B-word than a Pro Bowler, there was some hope at the end of the season that he was improving. There's something I call the "third year leap" -- basically, if someone is going to make the jump to a good player, it'll be in the third year. Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome explained this nicely before the 2010 season started (Context: he was talking about Joe Flacco).

"Then that third year most players make the biggest jump," Newsome said. "The light goes on. They figure out they belong in the league and have an understanding of what it takes to be in this league. There's a maturity level that occurs in that third year for every player, where they start to match their physical abilities with the intellectual aspect of playing the game."

So if Pioli is right and "he's starting to make his mark", ideally we see evidence of that in the third year leap.

Comment 275 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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Hope the Don's right!

My bold prediction for 2010....The Chiefs win the AFC west with a 9-7 record, while the Chargers fall off, Denver remains the same, and Oakland, well enough said. - CHECK

Offensive Player of the Year = J Charles - PENDING
Rookie of the Year = Eric Berry - PENDING

by DirtySouth Chiefs Fan on Jan 25, 2011 2:25 PM CST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

I still wanna know what Joel's nickname was when he was a kid

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 25, 2011 2:29 PM CST reply actions  

Joelle?

Kids are cruel…once you grow up a bit come the cooler nicknames…like “Thor” or “Joe”

To make a bad day worse, spend it wishing for the impossible.

I've had the same dream every night this week. I think it means that the spring season flopped and my subconscious has gone into reruns.

by chiefsandcigars on Jan 25, 2011 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Never got Joelle or Thor

The name Joel is unique enough (unlike Chris) that I didn’t need a nickname.

by Joel Thorman on Jan 25, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Oooh...Thor would've been cool...

of course then you would have had to start referring to yourself in the third person, “Thor doesn’t WANT to go to bed!”

by SCKSChief on Jan 25, 2011 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

"unique" (read "special") enough....

so Ups, you need to figure out what Chris’ nickname was

To make a bad day worse, spend it wishing for the impossible.

I've had the same dream every night this week. I think it means that the spring season flopped and my subconscious has gone into reruns.

by chiefsandcigars on Jan 25, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

the unmotorized Weis-mobile

yeah

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 25, 2011 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

the unmotorized Weis-mobile

yeah

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 25, 2011 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm Tyson's biggest critic...

But I DO hope he pans out for us.

There is a fly in the ointment. The sh*t has hit the fan. The lion will speak.

by R2J_24 on Jan 25, 2011 2:30 PM CST reply actions  

What's he going to say?

“Gee, I sure effed up that pick”?

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 2:32 PM CST reply actions  

Did Tony Dungee lecture him on his use of foul language?

While simultaneously and self-righteously providing counsel to a “redeemed” dog killer?

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Gandhi.

by Sudden on Jan 25, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, what a putz Dungy is for being honest and outspoken in his beliefs

If only he were meek as a mouse like a good little Christian

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 5:50 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

What does Dungy

Have to do with anything anyways?

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I have no idea

Hence my total jackass overreaction…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 7:48 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

My friend @ArrowheadPride called Pioli’s draft “a masterpiece” Shouldnt we wait to see if we will ever get production from the 2nd rounders?

I have to agree. I’m not labeling them busts, or probowlers, but “Masterpiece” is a little strong

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 2:34 PM CST reply actions  

I think Nick made a good point about the 2nd rounders

Do you think McCluster and/or Arenas get better in the future? That’s the question I think you’ll have to answer. Their rookie season can be interpreted a couple of different ways but maybe I’m just more optimistic.

Can’t back down from what I said now but I see your point (though one was a Pro Bowler).

by Joel Thorman on Jan 25, 2011 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Both of em

really faded, for me, after week one. McCluster had a few nice games where he seemed like the missing piece of our offense, but then the injury and the dreaded post-injury malaise. He really didn’t do much at all after the injury.

Arenas showed flashes in pre-season, but never really demonstrated (outside of a couple of blitzes) what he can contribute in the future. Right now, they are both, at best, average to just above average return men. Disappointing.

by SCKSChief on Jan 25, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course they can get better

But, McCluster chaged a couple of games this year with big plays, and save a high ankle sprain, showed a lot of promise.

Arenas was solid in coverage, and on returns, and great on the blitz.

I think we only got glimpses of what they both can do, but they certainly aren’t bad picks at all.

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

One thing we have to remember with McCluster

He has always been a RB, and the transition to WR in the NFL is going to take some time for him to learn how to get seperation. I think one of the things that will really help him is a genuine #2 WR so that he can do damage from the slot.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Gandhi.

by Sudden on Jan 25, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually

He was a WR early on in his College career, but he was so good that they put him at RB so he could touch the ball more often.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Furthermore

In college he could beat guys with his quickness alone and now he has to expand on that because that won’t work against NFL players. Also, this past season, he didn’t seem to have a defined role in the offense which is hard on a player and even more difficult for a rookie. Look at Sproles in San Diego this year and you will see the same issue and that’s a veteran guy. Hopefully the new OC/Haley will be able to give this guy a job description so he can focus on fine tuning the game they want out of him.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jan 25, 2011 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I STILL think of Dex as a very conservative "insurance pick."

KC’s offense was predicated on speed at HB. Sure, Dex could do some slot WR stuff, and he’ll be an excellent player to stick in the backfield and then jump up to the line as a wideout in the same package. We’ve already seen some of that. He would’ve been more productive if there were more room above him at HB. The irony is Charles didn’t miss a game, and Dex missed a handful and, as was saidd above, he never was QUITE the same after that.

Dex can STILL beat people with his quickness, when he’s 100%. At around 90%, he’s still one of the quicker guys on the field, but he’s not the absolute TERROR he was in September.

A player like Sproles is pretty special, but you can’t base your offense on him, because you don’t expect he can hold up all season. Something cool about Dex is that with JC AND Dex in the mix, you’re 2-deep at that hard-to-find scat-back spot, with one of ’em already a pretty accomplished receiver and the other one (Charles) making strides.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 6:25 PM CST up reply actions  

As usual, stag, you're making sense and pointing out that Arenas was far from a bust in the secondary.

I’m critical of parts of his game and have secret designs on him as a scat back on offense, who’s close to as quick as Charles and Dex AND he’s built to take and deliver punishment. Same size as Dex, but 20 more pounds in that small package. Potentially DEVASTATING as a HB.

But that’s my nutty self going on. The main point, here, is that a lot of those times that KC’s D held up, it was because Arenas was on the field and NOT just as a blitzer. The secondary was MUCH improved, with the addition of a 1st, 2nd and 5th-rounder.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Scat Back?..

Yeah that’s to much punishment on the guy.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:50 PM CST up reply actions  

No more so than the other two scat backs on the roster.

In fact, watching Arenas run back kicks, I’d be scared as hell as a defender if I saw Arenas lined up in the offensive backfield. He’s quick, tough, great balance. As scary as Dex and Charles in space, maybe more so on regular offense than as a sacrificial lamb on kicks.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Good question

I see Arenas as a guy that comes off the edge as a pass rusher, and he is a solid tackler. McCluster on the hand I’m not sure about, yes he’s shown some flash but he also got hurt and missed 4 or 5 games. McCluster is the one pick i wish we could have back with last years draft being so deep in talent.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Jan 25, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I think McCluster will be more involved...

as soon as we get some more weapons on Offense. A legit #1 WR (or #2 compared to Bowe), some help on the line, and then that’s when Dex will be more dangerous.

There is a fly in the ointment. The sh*t has hit the fan. The lion will speak.

by R2J_24 on Jan 25, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point

You’re right with a improved o-line, and better WR core it will make things easier for McCluster. I sure hope we add at least one top WR to our team next year.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Jan 25, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd be shocked if they didn't bring in 2 or more WR

hopefully, Breaston and a draft pick

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

The Chargers have to make a decision

Who do they let walk; Naanee, Floyd, or Jackson?

I’d take either one.

by SCKSChief on Jan 25, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

They saw towards the end of the season

when Jackson had to offer, it’s up to AJ Smith to decide now, But I’d take Jackson or Naanee

There is a fly in the ointment. The sh*t has hit the fan. The lion will speak.

by R2J_24 on Jan 25, 2011 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Vincent Brown

I’m really liking him in the Senior Bowl

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

There's been a pretty good buzz on him all year

just don’t hear about him coming from San Diego State.

by SCKSChief on Jan 25, 2011 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

The second coming of Jeff Webb!!!!!

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Gandhi.

by Sudden on Jan 25, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

He's really impressed

He shown really good route-running, and cuts in between the breaks. And Hands made of Glue, if he’s around in the 4th I say we grab him. He’s got the speed to be a deep threat, but the Pre-requisite hands and Route-Running to have a good NFL Career.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm confused.

If he has speed, great hands and really good route-running, why would he possibly last to the 4th round?

YAAAAAY! Now you go, lady!

by Tarkus on Jan 25, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

SD State

There’s your answer, and this is the first time people have seen him. Shoot Mike Mayock even said he didn’t expect much from him.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Two words: Jeff Webb

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Gandhi.

by Sudden on Jan 25, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope

we go heavy on defense in the draft (after seeing how far a good D gets you in the playoffs this season), then grab Breaston, Moore, Rice, or Steve Smith in Free Agency…

I’m hoping we draft Von Miller

There is a fly in the ointment. The sh*t has hit the fan. The lion will speak.

by R2J_24 on Jan 25, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's how the draft unfolded last year.

Look at the players that are available when we picked McCluster. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round/dt-by-round-input:2

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Jan 25, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

by CPT. : I think Arenas is clearly good as a blitzer. My one criticism is...

… on the (surprisingly few) occasions I noticed him up at the line and jamming, it looked like HE was the one getting pushed around. Disappointing. He ought to have enough leverage and low center of gravity to push the OTHER guy around.

I think people miss the point on Dex. KC could STILL challenge the edge and have a homerun hitter at HB in the event that Charles went down. We forget that Charles was the one who elevated the play of the OL, and KC didn’t add THAT much talent to the OL in the offseason. I think HB and WR are very tough positions for rookies in the NFL, and Dex (and Arenas) looked like veterans right outta the gate. This is not to be underestimated, even though knicks and bruises probably took away some of the up-side (and Charles staying healthy kept that door closed to Dex).

STILL, I bet I would’ve landed a wide body with that 2nd-rounder. But I think Dex was just Pioli and crew hedging to keep the offense on the up-tick, and insuring against injury to Charles.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Really? I wish we could get the Sheffield pick back so we’d have a player who didn’t injure his neck.

All joking aside, you can’t really blame McCluster for getting a high ankle sprain. He was fairly exciting before that injury.

by sea_people on Jan 25, 2011 8:53 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Can never say either way after just one year

Usually need about 3 for a true taste of how a draft class is panning out. For example, after this year, we now have a much better view of the 2008 draft class (which didn’t look as hot after one year).

by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 25, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

That's what Pioli said.

That it really takes three years to evaluate a draft, and he said most of the credit should go to the scouts.

YAAAAAY! Now you go, lady!

by Tarkus on Jan 25, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I think T-Jax will be just fine

He had some monster performances which tells me he’s capable. It’s just going to take time for him to put it together mentally to play with the necessary drive and confidence. Dorsey took a little while as well and God help the Chiefs run defense when he’s not playing! As long as T-Jax stays healthy next year we’ll see what we need to see. Add one big badass NT into the mix and both of our ends will look “other-worldly”

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 2:37 PM CST reply actions  

welcome awol buck'o

I agree. I’m so anxious for the draft I can hardly stand it to see who that NT will be.

Sign Shaun Smith.

by kabrink on Jan 25, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Phil Taylor from Baylor...

True NT

There is a fly in the ointment. The sh*t has hit the fan. The lion will speak.

by R2J_24 on Jan 25, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely!

He’s the one guy I’ve been looking at and I’ve not seen much mention about around here. Friggin’ MONSTER!

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I think passing on Raji was a huge mistake...

We can’t afford to go without a NT this season. Our schedule is a monster, and we’ll need to win our game on the lines.

There is a fly in the ointment. The sh*t has hit the fan. The lion will speak.

by R2J_24 on Jan 25, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

I still see NT as the biggest weakness on the team. Look where Raji’s playing next week :-|

For all the hype the GB offense gets for being efficient behind Rodgers, their defense go them there. Raji’s been incredible for them.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

errr...

you know what I mean :P

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I was worried about him being able to stay in training.

He’s been pretty awesome, though, pretty much doing to NFL players what he did to college players. Reminds me a lot of Warren Sapp, in spots.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 6:47 PM CST up reply actions  

can you elaborate?

Interested to hear more about this.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Arrowhead Pride is obsessed with "high character" football players.

Thankfully for us, Pioli doesn’t seem to care nearly as much.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

all the same

what’s wrong with Phil Taylor’s character?

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

not so much character as in getting arrested

more like football character and weight

There are concerns, however, that Taylor will struggle with his weight. He is reported to have been as high as 385, and his work ethic is questionable. He has the potential to be a dominating player, but he just doesn’t seem 100% committed to becoming the best he can be. Therefore, he looks like a boom-or-bust type of prospect.

http://football.about.com/od/Defensive-Linemen/p/Phil-Taylor.htm

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Plus

He got kicked off South Carolina for Rule Breaking IIRC. He just doesn’t seem like a Pioli Prospect overall IMHO.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

He was an 19 year old kid when that happened.

That’s just life, we were all 19 at one point and there’s alot of maturing that goes on from 19 to 22 not to mention in an event like at SC there’s alot he can take away from that and learn from.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jan 25, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

But its that

And What was said in what Stag’s quoted above that makes me think we won’t draft him.

Ay its not my mantra its Pioli’s take your beef up with him.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:06 PM CST up reply actions  

That is 1 draft out of about 10 Pioli offseasons.

He also signed Shaun Smith who punched his QB and was instrumental in bringing in Randy Moss who ran over a cop and mooned all of Lambeau.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

exceptions to every rule :)

I do think that “football character” (great work ethic, love of the game, film study, football IQ, dedication, leadership) is immensly more important than “church character” (kissing babies, walking old ladies across the street, good table manners)

Not getting arrested and making the organization look bad are things that have to be a factor, but exceptions can be made if the football stuff is in good order.

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Part of the importance of character, rather than PON was to maximize the potential

for early production. They needed to get more speed on the field, and could’ve chased WR harder to do it. What they did was get guys who’d help them in 2010. The guy they were (understandably) more patient with was Asamoah, but he got on the field, too. If his football IQ is as high as his physical abilities, he’s going to be very, very good. We’ll see how much they trust him in 2011, but good feet, very strong. Heckuva player.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

He supposedly did

But has there been any issues now with Shaun Smith? Besides grabbing Balls under the pile, I’ve heard he’s been upstanding.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions  

No

Pioli is, even said as much yesterday at the Senior Bowl

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I know.

Work’s been hell and I’ve never been watching the games where I could blog. BOOO!

I pray we draft a bit more “needs” oriented this year. Don’t get me wrong, I love what we did for 2010, but it also proved many of us right in terms of what the greatest needs are.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Im not ready for the draft just yet.

I finally have a reason to check out the pro-bowl again. Then I’m getting ready for the draft.

"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite

by Enite on Jan 25, 2011 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

What they do with Shaun Smith will be telling

Whether or not they actively pursue keeping Smith will probably tell us what they really think about Jackson.

Alternatively, if Smith doesn’t get strong interest from other teams, we may bring him back in any case.

by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 25, 2011 2:47 PM CST reply actions  

I'm thinking we keep him

T-jax got hurt and he stepped in and saved our bacon in the run-D. Even after Jackson came back his value as depth proved critical down the stretch.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong, I want him back

But whether or not they ACTIVELY pursue him, i.e. compete monetarily against other teams that may offer him a chance to start, may say a lot.

Whether or not other teams are interested, i don’t know.

by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 25, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

My understanding is he also wants to come back to KC.

I believe there is something between him and Romeo. Seems to me Romeo is a Father figure to Smith. That being said Smith was a leader on our team not just Defense. I think we need him back.

by 78Chief on Jan 25, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Crennel treats his people right.

Not everyone can get the most out of the big men. Crennel mixes patience and positive regard with high standards, and I think the wide bodies love him for it, and bust their asses for Romeo. That might give the Chiefs an edge with a dark horse NT prospect. It might also be grounds for drafting NT high, and giving Romeo his choice.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 6:56 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a good point

the one thing I will say about him that WILL go against teams wanting him is his very public propensity for grabbing sac. It was public enough to tag him with a negative stigma.

Plus as 78Chief said, I understand he wants to say in KC.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you

S.Smith can play any spot on the front 3 and is solid.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Jan 25, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

he's a leader and a spark plug, too

I’d be shocked if he’s not back

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Disagree

I expect the Chiefs to actively pursue Smith, but not because they don’t believe in Jackson. They need to bring Smith back because he also played well at NT. We are likely going to try and pick up a true starter at NT in FA or the draft, but need to have a capable body standing by in case of injury (and it won’t be Edwards). Keeping Smith gives them the option of rotating at NT and DE to have fresh guys rushing the passer when the time comes.

by Chiefs4Life on Jan 25, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

How much did he actually line up at DT?

I don’t remember seeing him there enough to form a strong opinion on his performance there.

by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 25, 2011 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

He gets LOW. Very tough to push off his spot.

But maybe a liability on passing downs. Hard for me to say until I see somebody like Kerrigan as a pass-rush threat.

Just my impression, based on next to nothing, but this might be a good year for big men. KC might sneak a damn good DL, SOLB, OT if everybody’s looking everywhere else.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions  

dump Edwards

and move Smith over to NT rotation with new guy. Start TJax at end.

Sign Shaun Smith.

by kabrink on Jan 25, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

He's definitely capable of playing NT

if for no other reason, his ability to provide depth there makes him valuable

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Jan 25, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I see little reason to dump Edwards.

I think Toribio’s the one who’s on the bubble.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions  

They better bring back Smith.

If they don’t which DL will step up and go TSA on the opponents OL?(that joke is for you frequent fliers out there)

by harleyman1200 on Jan 25, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree Vermeil.

I don’t think us keeping Smith has anything to do with Jackson. We need Smith for the depth.

"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite

by Enite on Jan 25, 2011 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I think we'd all prefer to keep Smith

But I was just stating that the priority that they put on his re-signing could be construed as a sign of their feelings on Jackson.

by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 25, 2011 6:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't THINK that's the case, or Smith would've started against the Chargers in Game 1.

The fact that Jackson languished behind Smith the rest of the season is more about Jackson being hurt than that Jackson was goin’ bust.

If KC adds another very good young DE or NT to the mix, either one, I see ‘em keeping Smith and Edwards as depth players who can start at a moment’s notice and do a serviceable job. Chiefs can basically add talent anywhere along that line and create very solid depth for themselves, with Smith being the swing lineman I had hoped Magee would become.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 8:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Glen Dorsey

He was a bust till this year. TJax was doing really well until he got hurt in the opener on monday night. Im holding off my judgement and opinion on him till after next year….altho he did get slightly better this year like dorsey did in his second year

by dt4ever on Jan 25, 2011 2:57 PM CST reply actions  

A bust is a bust forever

Dorsey showed up big this season. He could be called a slow-developer or a late-bloomer, but if he was ever truly a “bust” he’d be sitting on the same couch with Jamarcus Russell and watching the games on Sunday.

by Chiefs4Life on Jan 25, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree he wasnt a bust

I should have worded that differently….what i meant to say is that he was popularily labeled as a bust…in my mind it was premature….which is my point on tyson, its too early to tell

by dt4ever on Jan 25, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

He was a bust till this year

Not true. Dorsey looked like a competent player his first two years in the league.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yep

So did Tyson Jackson

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 3:38 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

That’s what we are all looking for in our trillion dollar players. Competence.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

At no point did Dorsey looked like a bust during his first two seasons, unlike Jackson.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Jackson

Never looked like a Bust, sooooo don’t know what you’re talking about.

And Jackson is a Trillion dollar player? Wow that’s news to me, he’s doing the job assigned to him. That’s why Pioli brought him, not to be flash, but to be substance. We’ll see next year, its all in due time.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Jackson has 30 less tackles after the same amount of time. They’re not on the same level. Call Jackson what you want, but he hasn’t developed nearly as quickly as Dorsey.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Fine

So? He’s not a bust, and tackle stats are useless when the guy was injured most of the time this year. Tackle stats are useless anyways, especially for DL.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Brodie Croyle’s been injured the large part of his career and that’s not been an excuse for him. If the guy’s not playing then he’s not living up to his 1st round status. Not much of an excuse.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh quiet Toby

QB is vastly different in comparison to DL. Jackson’s in his 2nd year and got a leg injury that takes a while to recover from. Injuries have always been Croyle’s excuse, how has it not been? How can he live up to his status if he’s not playing due to injury?! What??!!

You really make no sense man and honestly I’m done with this Jackson-Haterade.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Did you just call him Toby?

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Been a few weeks since I’ve been called a hater, too. Glad to be back on track.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

DIdn't say you were a hater

Just tired of the general Jackson-Haterade that really only goes around in circles around here. Reminds me of the Cassel-Haterade in a way.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyson Jasshole?

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Jackhole would suffice

R-E-S-T-E-C-P! Find out what ya mean to me.. R-E-S-C-E-T-P! ... 10-6 motha@$#%!! You know how'ta spell it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK6J_zw29RY (mild cursing. ahem.)

by ArrowSpread on Jan 25, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

The opponents Rushing attack

meets the Jackhole and disappears

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 25, 2011 6:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Or squirts out the other side

Ahem.

R-E-S-T-E-C-P! Find out what ya mean to me.. R-E-S-C-E-T-P! ... 10-6 motha@$#%!! You know how'ta spell it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK6J_zw29RY (mild cursing. ahem.)

by ArrowSpread on Jan 26, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

Tackle stats are useless for a DL. And you also have to keep in mind that Dorsey is playing what is usually a teams offensive strong side, so generally that side sees more action anyway.

"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite

by Enite on Jan 25, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually, Dorsey's mostly playing weak side, as it is generally understood.

TEs more often line up on the right of the o-front. Dorsey also mostly has a pure rush OLB on his outside shoulder. This puts him in the position of having to be the guy who honors the run, when offenses run at or inside of Hali.

Jackson’s a pure 3-4 DE, who can run the field better than most 3-4 ends, imo. He doesn’t LUMBER. He RUNS. He lost something off his lateral mobility after the knee, but got a lot of it back, and easing his way back into the lineup in short yardage, he showed better pure push than anybody else on the roster. Assuming the knee tweak in 2010 was a fluke, and, judging by his 16 starts as a rookie, I’m inclined to believe it WAS a fluke. I suppose it’s possible he mainly played in ‘09 to protect himself (It SORT of looked that way, to me, in 2009 – protect yourself and make the play if it comes to you), and when he opened it up for the first time in 2010, he played beyond himself and got the knee. MAYbe he’s incapable of really cutting loose without being an injury risk. But I doubt it.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah the knee-tweak wasn't something he's prone to.

It happened with a 300+ pound opponent on the bottom of the pile rolled over into the side of TJax’s knee.

Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.

by TRSChief on Jan 26, 2011 8:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Fixed

Call Jackson what you want, but he hasn’t developed nearly as quickly as Dorsey Wallace Freaking Gillbery

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

Its hard when you’re coming back from injury and have a great Veteran pushing for time and Ball Room.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

disagree

Gillberry and Jackson are 2 distinctly different players

each is good at what they do, neither can do it all at this point

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Gilberry is much more consistent then Jackson, I believe.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Kalo?

Paging KaloPhoenix.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

from week 16's post

Gillberry:

After a great game last week, Wallace had a bit of a down one. Only one quarterback pressure this week, and a couple gaffes in the run game resulted in a score not befitting his play recently.

 

Overall KPM: 3 Points

Snaps: 32

KPM/Snap: 0.094

Jackson:

Tyson killed it this week! He was a force, with two tackles for loss, lots of double teams, and shifted the line over so Dorsey and Vrabel had more freedom to make plays. He also recorded an even 1 KPM/Snap for 15 snaps. That’s great work!

 

Overall KPM: 15 Points

Snaps: 15

KPM/Snap: 1.000

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

week 15

Gillberry:


So…this Wallace guy is pretty damn good. A ridiculous three sacks, two quarterback pressures, and a forced fumble is a killer day for any player, let alone a backup. He has rushed the passer so well from the nickel defensive end/defensive tackle all year, and it culminated in a career day.

 

Overall KPM: 23 Points

Snaps: 37

KPM/Snap: 0.622

Jackson:


Tyson played quite a bit last Sunday, and played pretty strong. He commanded four double teams and forced a penalty and generally made a nuisance of himself and the matchup schemes he presented.

 

Overall KPM: 10 Points

Snaps: 23

KPM/Snap: 0.435

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll continue to point out...

That even in his best games, we’re judging Jackson on only 15 snaps.

It is a major concern that the coaches didn’t feel comfortable with him on the field more than 15 snaps.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Now this

Is a viable concern.

Although part of that maybe the how often we are in our nickel formations. However, I don’t like seeing a 1st rounder be a “bit” player, even if he’s a good one.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

No, we're not.

And like MN said, it’s a viable concern.

I still don’t think he was all that healthy after his injury, though. Having Shaun Smith around to spell him just made it easier to have him ease back in.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Whoa, whoa, there

You can’t really argue Shaun Smith Spelled, Tyson, more like the other way around.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Right.

Wasn’t really implying one way or the other. Perhaps “having Shaun Smith around to lessen his load” would be a better phrasing?

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

Didn’t mean to jump on that statement…

It’s also a concern the coaches we’re more comfortable with a journeyman DL (who played well, to be fair) over our #1 pick.

I’m not giving up on Jackson, but I am still very concerned.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Or

It could be that Shaun Smith is damn good, so juggling him and Smith on top of playing Nickel 25% of the time, while the guy is recovering from injury. That might’ve done it.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

It is.

But again, I’m not sure how healthy he was after that injury, even late in the year.

Tyson rarely misses an assignment, and and he anchors so well. The blocks and fundamentals are there, and they showed well in the last few games. That’s why I wonder if he was hurt or out of shape from the injury. He was playing well enough to be on the field.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you'd agree that in season 3

The excuses have to be over.

He has to perform, and be on the field, or…

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 6:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh GAWD!!

Ridiculous, sometimes you’re just unlucky man. Totally made me LMAO right now though.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Then laugh at Haley

Sometimes you’re unlucky, other times very preventable especially if you’re in great shape.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

But his injury wasn't because he was out of shape

He did the splits in the rain with a lineman falling on him.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

You're speculating on a future injury

Always hate to go to the ‘when I played’ crap, but in high school and college, there were always ‘those guy’s that were hurt a lot.

I’m guessing Haley though that about Page rightly or wrongly. I’m not saying that’s Jackson, I have no idea.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 6:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I'm not though

That was his past injury I labeled. Nobody knows what’ll happen in the future of course. But Jackson never had injury concerns as far as I know.

I think Page just never got the system here, and was just a holdout of an old regime. I doubt he was really let go due to injury concerns.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...

I guess it depends if you believe any of the story Page gave. I don’t believe it as exact truth, but think there’s probably something to it.

You also were asking what happens if he gets hurt next year…I’m saying if his next year is like this, again, we’re in big trouble.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 8:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Easy, there.

I agree that if injuries become a pattern, it’s a concern. Frankly, looking at the play on which he was injured, I thought it was a miracle that it wasn’t catastrophic. All the earmarks of a well-conditioned player dodging a bullet.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 9:18 PM CST up reply actions  

For a guy of his size and strength

You betchya. He’s quick and agile to be the size that he is, and was getting back to regular season endurance by the last few weeks – which is very very hard after sitting out a lengthy stretch of time with a knee injury.

That stamina isn’t something you get back overnight. The fact that he was getting back there after that much time sitting is testament to how hard the guy was working during his recovery. (No doubt with Haley holding the reins and pushing him)

Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.

by TRSChief on Jan 26, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions  

But we are half the game, sometimes more

So you take away half the snaps, then have him split snaps evenly with Smith…

Hey, I’m with you in that I’ve got concerns. However, I did see a huge improvement over last year, and that gives me patience with him.

It’s the same reason I had faith in Dorsey. He kept getting better. Now Jackson isn’t where Dorsey was at this time last year, but that could be contributed to a rather severe injury.

Now if he hasn’t improved at all next year I’ll be worried. But so far he’s given me no reason to think he’ll stop improving (just like Dorsey), since that’s all he’s done.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 7:29 PM CST up reply actions  

he's consistent in pass rush ONLY

you don’t want Gillberry playing against the run, for the most part

Jackson’s been consistent vs the run, but not doing as much in the pass rush department

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

But he's beginning too

If the SD game was any indication, he’s got a bright future.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

week ONE

Gillberry:

Wallace was solid as a nickel pass rusher this week. He was double teamed once, had one quarterback pressure that forced him out of the pocket, and recorded a sack. As noted above, he played a bit in place of Jackson as a 3-4 DE, but didn’t command a double team on either of the two running plays that San Diego ran that drive. He seems to take a very long route to the quarterback when rushing the passer, opting sometimes to go all the way around the tackle when lined up in front of the guard. He’s certainly quick enough to get there, but I wonder if taking the inside line might result in an up-the-gut penetration sack for him.

Overall KPM: 9 Points

Snaps: 21

KPM/Snap: 0.429

Jackson:


As seen in the bullet points up above, Tyson was in rare form this week. Six gaps filled, four double teams, and a quarterback pressure on the positive side, with two free men on the negative side. Before his injury, he was causing all sorts of problems for the right side of San Diego’s offensive line. They couldn’t budge him off the line, and while he let two guys get to the second level, both of those plays he made up for it by stepping into the gap and making the tackle. He’ll be missed against Cleveland, as he looked every part of a stud strongside 3-4 defensive end this week. Keep that fire, Tyson!

Overall KPM: 12 Points

Snaps: 35

KPM/Snap: 0.342

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks, saved me some time. We’re comparing a UDFA to a 1st round pick. Doesn’t that say something?

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope not at all

Brian Waters, and Wiegmann went undrafted. Where your drafted really has nothing to do with it.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed that it shouldn't matter

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

It has everything to do with expectations.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 6:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

So?

Doesn’t really matter in all honesty. You expected something, Pioli really didn’t. That’s your concern.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:09 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

It’s all of our concerns if the guy in charge doesn’t expect more from a first round pick than an udfa. After all, isn’t that why there is a huge difference in contracts?

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 11:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

God Bless you, KP

rec

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:39 PM CST up reply actions  

That's unpossible.
Gilberry rarely sees 3-4 snaps, and his position in the nickel is SO much different from what Tyson is asked to do in the 3-4, so they’re almost uncomparable.

YAAAAAY! Now you go, lady!

by Tarkus on Jan 25, 2011 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Greened

Too many people and their apples and oranges arguments on this site.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jan 25, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Comparing 2 LDE's is apples and oranges?

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Jackson is a LDE in a base 3-4, Gilberry is a LDE in nickel packages

Like Kalo said, two completely different positions.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jan 25, 2011 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

They complement each other perfectly.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jan 25, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say "apples and oranges".

More like Gin and Tonic. They work together really well, but both are lacking in parts of the game. They’re better if you consider them a single unit, rather than two separate ones.

Cue the “I like Gin on the rocks” people to disprove my analogy. =)

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm drinking a Jackson and Gillberry

With freshly squeezed lime.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 5:41 PM CST up reply actions  

It's a J&G night in Calgary?

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 5:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Excuse me, I have to go flip out a couple comments down

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I prefer Crown on it's own, so not a good analogy for me.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 5:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Question

Could that NT we covet be a 1-gap NT?

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 25, 2011 5:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Eh...why limit it?

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions  

well some good DT's are 1-gap players

maybe Gillberry is one or Dorsey, I was actually looking at a new one though. Wondered if we could play our scheme with one?

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 25, 2011 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not saying they couldn't.

But the NT’s job is mainly to eat blockers. He should be able to do that on either gap with ease.

Most of the 1-gap players are that because they’re good penetrators. While that can be nice out of a NT, primarily, we need him to eat blockers.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

Gilberry is a gap shooter though?

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 25, 2011 5:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Mostly.

Uses his speed to get outside on stunts, too.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

VODKA AND COKE?

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Ya right...

The whole sponsorship AP ad thing.
I get in fist fights with people who drink Vodka and Coke. People who drink Vodka and Coke usually eat their steak with ketchup and wear socks under their flipflips

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Ha!

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions  

by KaloPhoenix: If you look at the pre-snap and what Gilberry's being asked to do...

… I wouldn’t say that HE looks weak against the run. I’d say he very well might be exactly the right guy for what he’s doing, but there are OTHER problems with that nickel package against the run. Look at how wide those LBs are. You’re asking Gilberry to get to the QB AND play defensive tackle!

Reason I’m saying this is I kind of zeroed-in on Gilberry, and on some of those plays where we all thought he got burned, it looked more like the other guys up front weren’t doing THEIR jobs.

It’s not that there’s anything wrong with young Wallace’s game, but that the Chiefs are INVITING the run, and maybe they simply aren’t big enough to get it done. IF KC had a real thumper of a SOLB, like Terrell Suggs, that 4-man front, with 2 down and 2 up would be better at rushing the passer AND stuffing the run, because Gilberry would be sided with a good run-stuffer who’s much more likely to penetrate as deeply as Gilberry (helps with QB pressure and sacks AND you fight the run, because it’s no longer enough to just escape the one penetrator (Gilberry) – now you’re talkin’ tackles for loss against any runs to the strong side in nickel).

When comparing Gilberry to Jackson, I’d say that Gilberry’s job is “easier” in that he’s SUPPOSED to pin his ears back.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions  

BTW, that big SOLB is a 3-down 'backer if you run the KC style of nickel.

You don’t swap him out because you want coverage. You swap out a lineman and he becomes your 4th pass rusher, with a pair of down linemen between Tamba and him.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup.

We just can’t do that with our current personnel.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 9:54 PM CST up reply actions  

They play two different jobs

even though they play the same position. Even Pioli admitted he wasn’t looking for flash with Jackson.

But my previous point stands if Jackson can come back to form, and drop some of that weight this offseason, I think he can be a corner-stone on the line. Makes it easier on an eventual drafted nose Tackle coming in. I really like his nastiness, even if it was a bit to much against a frustrating Ravens team

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

exactly

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Jan 25, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

He's (Gilberry) more consistent at pass rushing.

He was not great at holding the edge, but in his defense, he was getting better as the season went on.

"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite

by Enite on Jan 25, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

What's the difference in total games played?

If i recall correctly Dorsey never suffered an injury that took away sufficient playing time.

by beb1945 on Jan 26, 2011 8:39 AM CST up reply actions  

He showed ability a few times this season. Other than that he is not close to where Dorsey was after two years.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

If I remember correctly,

not many people thought Dorsey was doing well at all his second year.

"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite

by Enite on Jan 25, 2011 4:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Don’t count me in there. I was here defending dorsey as much as I “hated” on cassel.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 6:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I was a huge Dorsey defender

And I’m extremely concerned about Jackson.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Same here, to a point

But after going back and looking at Kalo’s game breakdowns, my concerns were a little alleviated.

I’d sure like to see him on the field more though. It seems like he’s getting results while out there.

If he can make the kind of jump Dorsey did (although I’m with you and JComp that Dorsey was a better player at this point) in his third year I’ll be much more relaxed about the pick.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Concerned about what exactly?

When in doubt he’ll at least be a solid player, he already showed that ending the year.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

You and I disagree, clearly

I don’t think 15 snaps a game is ‘solid’ for a #3 overall pick.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Was it 15 snaps?

Or are you just going ballpark here?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I haven't done the math...

But if you divide it by our total games it’s way lower.

I just noticed from the copying and pasting of stags of his ‘best’ games that he had 15 snaps in both games.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 6:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Yep

that’s what happens when you get an injury and recover slowly from it.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Right on

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 7:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah you were

Dorsey just became fashionable to dislike because he was “out of position”, so people ignored his clear progress.

I do feel Jackson is clearly progressing as well, but more slowly. I’m withholding my worry until next year. If he’s as much improved next year as he was this year I’ll be a lot less worried.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

another LSU player

Bowe took a while, Dorsey a little quicker, Niswanger not so much

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 25, 2011 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Ahhh it's all the south :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

You people refer to everything on this side of Nebraska as “the south.”

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 11:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Could be those guys are heavy on talent and light on coaching

Take a little longer to coach up?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Wasn't Jackson terrible last year?

Isn’t that why everyone was so happy when he suddenly was playing well this year?

Or maybe I’m just selectively remembering all the giant rushing gains that involved going directly through where Jackson was standing (and actively pedaling backwards to keep from being pancaked).

by sea_people on Jan 25, 2011 9:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Jackson "starting to make his mark"...

meanwhile, Raji had the game winning INT TD in the NFC Championship game.

All this just for a little weed?

I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave

by ArrowDread on Jan 25, 2011 2:58 PM CST reply actions  

Ouch

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Jan 25, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

And the fact that we didn’t have a need at NT with Edwards on the team

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

The fact that Edwards is our NT means we need one.

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Jan 25, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Not then it didn't

And certainly not at the beginning of this year.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Chiefs had a lot of DTs at the time, but no 3-4 DE.

And Jackson fit the prototype, and seemed very Low Risk. I think most expected that, with all the DT talent KC had, they ought to be able to do decently at the nose, for a year, and get production out of Jackson. And even as a rookie, his presence WAS felt in 2009. Opponents did NOT ignore him. If anything, they loaded up on him and picked on somebody else (or REALLY loaded up on him and picked HIM). I always thought he was a really good young player on a team with serious deficiencies. I think Tank Tyler was a big disappointment, in that regard, and I can’t help but wonder if Turk McBride might still have a job, if Romeo had arrived a year earlier.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 9:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Did you see that he sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber when he sleeps at 13K altitude.

He’s like a 300 lb sherpa.

"Gonna gallop all over the Chiefs. Cleat prints on the chests. Mud in the face masks." - 2.7* *Yes I know it was changed to 2.9 but f*ck the statisticians.

by Kristospherein on Jan 25, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think we can

expect Pioli and Co. be %100 on picks as the whole draft is a freakin shot in the dark. Sometimes you get a Derrick Thomas (RIP), sometimes you get a Sylvester Morris.

I am confident Pioli’s approach is solid and we will have more good picks than bad while he’s at the helm. I can’t say I’m overly impressed with TJax, but I’m content to wait and see how he pans out….

2011 Draft Needs:
OL (C/RT), NT, WR, SOLB, depth..........

Big things poppin next year!

by Hail2DaChiefs on Jan 25, 2011 3:03 PM CST reply actions  

They haven't been 100%,

but Jackson doesn’t go into the “mistake” column.

"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite

by Enite on Jan 25, 2011 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly my point

TJax is not a mistake, nor is he a bust. Pioli knew what he was getting. I (along with a few others that maybe weren’t familiar with the 3-4 defense) did not.

But I think he is what he is: a solid piece of the DL that will prove his worth over time with the necessary players added to our defense…

2011 Draft Needs:
OL (C/RT), NT, WR, SOLB, depth..........

Big things poppin next year!

by Hail2DaChiefs on Jan 25, 2011 5:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Agreed

I think we just need the NT position to soak up more of the blocking. I’m trying to figure out which one of the DT prospects for this years draft would be up to that task…….last years group had more big bodies……..

2011 Draft Needs:
OL (C/RT), NT, WR, SOLB, depth..........

Big things poppin next year!

by Hail2DaChiefs on Jan 26, 2011 8:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Tyson Jackson will make a huge jump in 2011

Although Ragi does look good, that doesn’t mean I am disappointed in TJax. He fits a need in a very important position and he has shown progress.

A dominant NT will make him and Dorsey look that much better.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 25, 2011 3:30 PM CST reply actions  

Where is that "dominant NT" comin from?

It’s tough to say “will make a jump in 2011” and then qualify the same statement with the need for a dominant NT. Sure, dominant players make everyone around them look good. I just don’t know where we’re gonna get the guy that will make it possible for TJax to look really good as soon as next year. If we get a rookie, according to our local dline gurus, it will take three years. You willing to wait three more years for TJax to look good? Seems like a long time to me.

Personally, I think a guy like Soliai would be a nice fit. Not sure if he’s a “dominant” guy though.

by SCKSChief on Jan 25, 2011 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

V.Wilfork would be nice:P

Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

by CPT.Caveman on Jan 25, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

In a perfect world the 49ers would switch to a 4/3 and we could get Franklin

I’m not disappointed with Jackson though. He made the same progress as Dorsey did towards the end of the season AND came through an injury early in the year.

A dominant NT makes any DL look that much better. I agree that getting a NT from the draft would take at least 3 years to make his mark. There are exceptions but not anything I’m willing to bank on.

You seem to be against TJax and I personally think he’s going to make a jump even if its just Edwards and Smith next to him again.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 25, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Along those same lines, there's the older, but pretty good Jamaal Williams in Denver.

He signed a 3-yr deal in March, 2010, but maybe John Fox wants to get a head start on his 4-3, and Gilberry gets to thrive as a DE. I know I’ll get shot down for it, but I think Gilberry might be good inducement. We think of him as one of our best pass rushers, and he is, by the numbers, but I think he’s just a good player who filled a particular need, but was really a patch on an incomplete D. When KC finishes the transition to base 3-4 team, good players like him can still find themselves the odd man out – not big enough for the trenches and not mobile enough to play OLB.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 10:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I do agree with you about Gilberry

He filled a very specific role very well and that is the ceiling IMO.

I’m for anything that attempts to get a NT in there that can make some things happen. I think we need to draft one at some point this year, but I thought the same thing last season. I just hope we don’t take one early and everyone thinks that he should have a Suh-type impact right away.

It’s one thing to have LB’ers and DB’s coming in and out based on the particualr scheme but we had half of our team rotating around depending on the defensive call. We need to get some players that can stay on the field for different situations.

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 25, 2011 11:00 PM CST up reply actions  

When I say Guys aren't Character Concerns

I’m not saying they need to be “Church Boys” They just need to show enough discipline to not show problems on or off the field. A passion for the game is also a plus.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 4:09 PM CST reply actions  

Third year jump...see Matt Cassel as an example

"Gonna gallop all over the Chiefs. Cleat prints on the chests. Mud in the face masks." - 2.7* *Yes I know it was changed to 2.9 but f*ck the statisticians.

by Kristospherein on Jan 25, 2011 4:15 PM CST reply actions  

O/T

Chad Ochocinco changed his name back to Chad Johnson.

In other “who gives a shit” news I just learned: My coworker can’t wait for nice weather because he has some stuff he would like to get rid of, and would like to have a garage sale.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 4:20 PM CST reply actions  

IOW you're really looking forward to a period that lasts about a week and a half sometime in July?

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Gandhi.

by Sudden on Jan 25, 2011 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Any hot records?

I don’t comment on this site for the people that are against me and think that I can’t do it. I comment for the people that have always believed in me. I comment for my family, for my wife, for my mother so it really comes down to that.

by HIV 2 Elway on Jan 25, 2011 5:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Nah

But I think He’s got some good Cassette tapes if you’re interested.

by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 25, 2011 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Meh

There is a beat up Funkentelechy Vs The Placebo Syndrome record for $0.50

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, hey, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it. =)

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 4:35 PM CST reply actions  

Gun to your head - pop quiz asshole

Only one answer will suffice.

Who was better in 2010.
Wallace Gillberry or Tyson Jackson.

/apologize if you don’t get the Speed reference, I don’t think you are an asshole.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I got the Speed reference.

Gilberry, but I’m in the camp that thinks a healthy Tyson outplays him all year. He started with a bang, then was dormant until the last 3 to 4 games, when he looked like he did at the beginning of the year. I just think that injury was WAY worse than most think it was.

When Tyson is in the game, teams don’t run at the strong side, and that’s with Vrabel and Belcher behind him. Solid players in those spots will make him look even better. And then there’s also the shift that lets Dorsey get after his man even easier that happens when he’s in the game.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

You if I may put words in your mouth

You are advocating drafting a solid OLB which will not only fill a void, but make Tyson Jackson that much better?

I’m down.

Trapped in the past, Craig finds himself leaping from blog to blog, putting things right that once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap will be the leap home.

by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2011 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

It's our biggest need, alongside NT, IMO.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I still think center and NT are our biggest needs,

but I would definitely like an upgrade at that spot. I actually really hope that it is Sheffield.

"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite

by Enite on Jan 25, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

This

100% agree. After watching the Steelers it’s clear that defense still is the way to go. A Stud OLB, a NT and a Stud ILB and we’re set.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jan 25, 2011 5:18 PM CST up reply actions  

/drool

Tulloch is far more likely than Woodley, but I’d rather sell the farm for Woodley.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 25, 2011 5:37 PM CST up reply actions  

With Tulloch and Woodley behind Jackson can you imagine?

Nothing would work offensively on that side of the field.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jan 25, 2011 5:38 PM CST up reply actions  

that is how close The Chiefs are getting to a great D

Big Happy Face

over in Walters forums someone was complaining about the Chiefs D-line (Chiefs fan) and a Patriots fan said with a NT? we would have a great Defense

Just try to STOP US

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 25, 2011 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

A couple LBers and we’d be set. Might set a record for first round picks starting on one defense.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 25, 2011 6:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Does that show we're nailing our picks...

Because we’re keeping our first rounders around?

Or that we’re not paying enough attention to the offense?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Jan 25, 2011 7:51 PM CST up reply actions  

They're mainly about avoiding down-side with that first pick.

That’s why I can almost see ‘em piss me off with a freakin’ ILB pick. I’m pretty OK with them taking a top OLB, even though I kind of think the long-term plan is to be able to develop players for that position with later picks that you have time to mold. Lots of diamonds-in-the-rough for that position, with plenty of opportunities to turn up carnival glass.

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

A Sheffield perhaps?

The sterner the discipline, the greater the devotion.

by BJ Kissel on Jan 25, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

God...

It’s awesome being on a flight and surfing AP.

by kcsno56 on Jan 25, 2011 6:08 PM CST reply actions  

Pioli will reach for "no down-side" before he'll reach for pure "up-side."

That’s what I take away from his picks, so far.

I don’t think he’s had to make the “tough” picks, yet, with a team that’s in contention, but needs to stay as good AND take yet another step forward. Berry, Dex, Arenas, Asamoah were all picks virtually guaranteed to help them gain ground NOW. The picks on widebodies can take a while, or, worse yet, the guy just be too slow (or slow-witted) to take it to the next level.

“We thought we could get him to play with better knee-bend. Turns out, you can only get him to do it for about 4 snaps, and then he gets tired, and it’s game over… no matter HOW hard he conditions.”

by hmills110 on Jan 25, 2011 9:51 PM CST reply actions  

Turn the '09 Draft upside down

Succop – 1st pick – too high for a kicker, but he’s done a great job. Might be the next SeaBass.

Jackson – Mr. Irrelevant, 7th round. Shows potential, still might make it.

The problem of course is that Jackson was a pick at the very top of the draft. Missed opportunity.

by HowSweetItIs on Jan 25, 2011 10:40 PM CST reply actions  

Tyson Jackson

Remember people, The Chiefs run a 3-4 Defense, not a 4-3 defense……T.Jackson plays his role effective enough, he holds his gap, keeps his containment…Jackson wasn’t drafted to be a double digit sack man…….Thats what the OLB’s are for…Now if runs keep breaking off the right guard and tackle then the critics have every right to slam him….Our biggest concern is the NT position..when we fill that need, I believe Jackson and Dorsey will jump into the next level more often…..

And one more thing the Chiefs have one of the toughest Schedules next year…..so when we make the Playoffs again Everyone else can KISS our A$$……GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Spencer Lemmon on Jan 26, 2011 8:50 PM CST reply actions  

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