The Last Kansas City Chiefs Pro Bowl Quarterback

by Joel Thorman on Jan 20, 2011 8:04 AM CST in 2010 Kansas City Chiefs Season

A report out of Boston says Kansas City Chiefs QB Matt Cassel will be replacing New England Patriots QB Tom Brady in the Pro Bowl. Assuming the report is accurate, Cassel becomes the first Chiefs quarterback since QB Trent Green to make it to the Pro Bowl.

The teams lead by Green were known for their offense but I was a little surprised when I saw how well Cassel's numbers stack up to Green's 2005 Pro Bowl season:

Green: 317/507 (62.5 percent), 4,014 yards, 17 touchdowns, 10 interceptions

Cassel: 262/450 (58.2 percent), 3,116 yards, 27 touchdowns, 7 interceptions

Obviously the 2005 Chiefs passed the ball more and Green was a little more efficient completing passes but Cassel's touchdown numbers are so huge compared to Green's. That's a good stat to dominate in.

My mind is telling me that Green was a better quarterback but the stats would disagree.

What do you think about these two seasons? Would you rather have Cassel or Green?

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Trent Green and it's not even close...

that team didn’t need to pass the ball in the red zone because they would just run it down teams’ throats.

by polodude017 on Jan 20, 2011 8:07 AM CST reply actions 7 recs

Also, Green’s ability to make throws and consider more than one receiver on a given play allowed the team to do more.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 20, 2011 8:37 AM CST up reply actions

rec

RUN DEXTER RUN!!!!
Small Player + Big Heart = Huge Impact

by ARROWHEADSHANE on Jan 20, 2011 9:21 AM CST up reply actions

REC!!

Nothing against Cassel, but I just feel Trent Green was completely underrated and under appreciated in Kansas City. If we would of had a defense one of those 4 years he went for 4000+ yards we might of actually made some noise.

My bold prediction for 2010....The Chiefs win the AFC west with a 9-7 record, while the Chargers fall off, Denver remains the same, and Oakland, well enough said. - CHECK

Offensive Player of the Year = J Charles - PENDING
Rookie of the Year = Eric Berry - PENDING

by DirtySouth Chiefs Fan on Jan 20, 2011 9:57 AM CST up reply actions

I agree

in my eyes, Trent Green was a much better and much more consistent quarterback.

Chiefs WILL

by bigbearomaha on Jan 20, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions

Difference in TDs

Green: Priest/LJ ran ’em in

Cassel: Bowe caught ’em.

I’d Green over Cassel.

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 20, 2011 8:08 AM CST reply actions 1 recs

I'd take Green over Cassel.

typing issues this morning

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 20, 2011 8:09 AM CST up reply actions

You mean Bowe caught ... most of 'em

RUN DEXTER RUN!!!!
Small Player + Big Heart = Huge Impact

by ARROWHEADSHANE on Jan 20, 2011 9:21 AM CST up reply actions

What about the difference in INTs?

3 picks in 57 passes is a lot.

YAAAAAY! Now you go, lady!

by Tarkus on Jan 20, 2011 9:41 AM CST up reply actions

Im going Cassel on this one..

I want to say Trent but I know those teams that he played on would DOMINATE our current crop of Chiefs.

So, Cassel did more with less. He gets my nod.

by KCJayhawk on Jan 20, 2011 8:10 AM CST reply actions

true

but I got to take green because he was able to.consistantly throw down field. I think cassel may do better with better wr, but right now I go with green. I would LOVE for cassel to change my mind though. :)

Smile, its the second best things you can do with your lips!

by fleetmarine on Jan 20, 2011 8:19 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

the question was, would you rather have.....

not who did the most. Think about Green with these Chiefs. I take Green.

RUN DEXTER RUN!!!!
Small Player + Big Heart = Huge Impact

by ARROWHEADSHANE on Jan 20, 2011 9:23 AM CST up reply actions

But that goes both ways. Think of Cassell with those Chiefs.

He can definately control the ball, and does a decent job of managing the game. I’m a Trent Green fan, and I think Cassell is another Trent Green.

by Helmets on Jan 20, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

Not to mention the QB is the leader of the offense

So Trent Green did more with more and Cassel has done less with less;comparatively speaking.

by pokerjoe on Jan 20, 2011 9:56 AM CST up reply actions

I take Cassel

I see way more fire and passion in Cassel. He seems to be a better leader and all around team captain.

One exception….I’ll take Cassel if I can also have Holmes in his prime….he is always good to help pad QB stats.

"Nobody scares us," Dion Gales said. "Where I’m from, it ain’t how big or small a man is, it’s the size of the fight in them.

"I’ll be doggone if I let another man beat me, that’s just my attitude. I’m not scared of another man."

by Matt_Grbac on Jan 20, 2011 8:13 AM CST via mobile reply actions

Another neat stat

Trent Green was an 8th rd draft pick. Has any team done more with late round picks than us? I would hardly think so….with the exception of Brady.

"Nobody scares us," Dion Gales said. "Where I’m from, it ain’t how big or small a man is, it’s the size of the fight in them.

"I’ll be doggone if I let another man beat me, that’s just my attitude. I’m not scared of another man."

by Matt_Grbac on Jan 20, 2011 8:21 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

one stat doesnt show alot....

I’ve played college football, personally Cassel has made a fine team out of the hand he has been dealt, BUT when we compare them both Trent gets my nod far and wide. Cassel’s inability to look of defenders when he’s throwing the ball this year was evident cost us in some games. But the worst of it was the Play action…..I’ve never seen such a QB thats so BAD at play action. Trent needs to coach up Cassel. It would benefit us greatly

by Chiefs190 on Jan 20, 2011 8:16 AM CST reply actions

The king of play action was...

Steve Deberg. I think he is still coaching down in Florida at the college and high school level. Maybe we could bring him back to give Cassel some pointers.

Do or do not...there is no try. Yoda

by kc-joe on Jan 20, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

It's easy to say Green was the better QB

and don’t get me wrong, I love Trent Green. He’s one of my favorite Chiefs of all time.

But it’s hard to compare the 2. The 2005 offense was MUCH different than the 2010 offense. The line was pro-bowl caliber all the way across, and while we didn’t have a receiver with the explosiveness of Bowe, I don’t remember many games where Kennison / Samie Parker / Mark Boerigter / Dante Hall / Tony G / Priest Holmes were completely shut down.

Plus that team had Boomer-Fucking-Grigsby

Sign Shaun Smith

by aasukisuki on Jan 20, 2011 8:17 AM CST reply actions

+1 for Grigsby.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 20, 2011 9:06 AM CST up reply actions

I will take Cassel....

behind the line that we had then. Can you Imagine what his numbers, Jone’s numbers, and Charle’s numbers would be!

Do or do not...there is no try. Yoda

by kc-joe on Jan 20, 2011 8:17 AM CST reply actions 4 recs

Well we currently have 2 outta five. Is that good enough?

by Chiefs Fanatic on Jan 20, 2011 8:25 AM CST up reply actions

We are getting there

Hopefully we will get some guys for the trenches in the draft. At least to challenge the guys and be quality back ups. Then maybe we could run more rotations for the older guys and make them last longer.

Do or do not...there is no try. Yoda

by kc-joe on Jan 20, 2011 8:33 AM CST up reply actions

I don't think so

’05 Waters > ’10 Waters, ’05 Casey > ’10 Casey, Shields >> Lilja, Tait >>> Richardson, Roaf >>>> Albert (and most every other LT who has ever played the game)

by The Other Patrick Allen on Jan 20, 2011 9:51 AM CST up reply actions

+5

That OL was awesome.

YAAAAAY! Now you go, lady!

by Tarkus on Jan 20, 2011 9:55 AM CST up reply actions

best in the west

Real Men Wear Red!

by LadyChief on Jan 20, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions

Will Shields and Willie Roaf might very well be first ballot HOFers

Can we be the AFC West Champions in 2010. You better believe it
Hali and Flowers are Pro Bowlers, even if the NFL fails to realise it

by trentchiefsfan on Jan 20, 2011 8:33 AM CST up reply actions

Congrats to Cassel (assuming it's true)

He’s come a long way… and he still has a ways to go.

He may not be better than Green today… but he’s had games where he’s as good as anyone… and hopefully, he’ll keep developing the consistency and accuracy that will take him to the next level.

Hopefully, next year, it won’t take an injury to get him into the Pro Bowl!

It's all about the gameplan

by stagdsp on Jan 20, 2011 8:28 AM CST reply actions

Green as of now

I think Cassel will end up being picked over Green somewhere down the track, though

Can we be the AFC West Champions in 2010. You better believe it
Hali and Flowers are Pro Bowlers, even if the NFL fails to realise it

by trentchiefsfan on Jan 20, 2011 8:31 AM CST reply actions

Green only had 17 TDs...

Because we had a dominant ground game and no one could stop Johnson and Holmes.

Cassel has a long way to go to be compared to Green.

by bfett81 on Jan 20, 2011 8:32 AM CST reply actions 1 recs

We did not have a dominate ground game this year?

Do or do not...there is no try. Yoda

by kc-joe on Jan 20, 2011 8:33 AM CST up reply actions

not as much in the red zone...

Priest got EVERY TD that year… this year, KC seemed to throw more near the goal line

It's all about the gameplan

by stagdsp on Jan 20, 2011 8:58 AM CST up reply actions

LJ was the man in 2005.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 20, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions

Not if you are judging by TD's.

Our run game flourished in long field situations, when we had the whole field in front of us and could just run around. But when we needed 1 or 2 yards, especially in goal line situations, we were not that effective. Jamaal Charles only had 7 rushing TD’s all year. I believe Jones only had 1. That’s 8 TD’s from your starting running backs ALL season long. Contrast that to Priest Holmes who had 27 FREAKING TD’S IN ONE SEASON (2003)! In 2005, LJ had 20 TD’s and Priest added 6 more. Again, that’s as many TD’s as our QB threw this year! It’s mind boggling.

So, no, our ground game is definitely not as dominant as those were. We have trouble punching it in in short yard situations. And no one would suggest that our offense this year was more effective as a whole as the 2003 offense or 2005 offense. So when comparing these two QB’s I think the best criteria would be completion percentage. Any top QB should have a MINIMUM 60% completion percentage. MINIMUM. Cassel didn’t quite get there. Green exceeded the 60% threshold. He was better pure passer, more accurate and more consistent, period. No question.

I’m taking Green in a heartbeat, no questions asked.

by caracasmc on Jan 20, 2011 9:08 AM CST up reply actions

You also have to keep in mind

[some have noted this]Green’s offense had a lot more “playmakers” on it comparatively. Also by 2005 Trent Green was a veteran in his prime. Cassel hasn’t gotten there yet but he’s working toward that.

by Fidelis86 on Jan 20, 2011 8:33 AM CST reply actions

As in most cases in life

you are only as good as those around you. They help you do better and everyone feeds off each other. We need to find a few more pieces of the puzzle and we will start to see the big picture.

Do or do not...there is no try. Yoda

by kc-joe on Jan 20, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions

green in his prime all day

The guy just made accurate throws. Great play action. Green all day long

FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.

by sexassassin on Jan 20, 2011 8:52 AM CST via mobile reply actions

Dwayne Bowe accounted for more than half of Cassel's TDs and damn near half the yards.

Cassel: 262/450 (58.2 percent), 3,116 yards, 27 touchdowns, 7 interceptions

Bowe: 72 catches, 1162 yards, 15 touchdowns, 16.14 ypc

/does quick math

That means Cassel completed passes to other receivers 190 times for 1954 yards and 12 touchdowns, 10.28 ypc

Now I’m no genius but, imo, Bowe is obviously the probowler here and without his output Cassel really didn’t produce alot… as was evident the last few games when Bowe was held in check.

Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!

by BigRedChief on Jan 20, 2011 8:58 AM CST reply actions

Hard to narrow that down to just Cassel

Without doing any research into it, I’m almost positive that MANY pro bowl qbs have put up good stats with a pro bowl wr getting most of the catches, yardage, and TDs. While obviously Cassel is no Manning, Brady, or Brees, to illegitimize Cassel is a little strong

"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter

by FalconMF27 on Jan 20, 2011 10:05 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Look at his stats in game where Bowe is held in check or just isn't producing.

For the most part he’s been average AT BEST.

Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!

by BigRedChief on Jan 20, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions

Points above...

If Cassel had the offensive line that Green had? And what kind of running game would we have with that same offesnive line? When Haley says were are not that talented…he is not talking about our “stars”. Given another year, maybe two, add one or two good WRs and get the offensive line built, this offense could be scary..and so could Matt

by Turkeyleg on Jan 20, 2011 9:07 AM CST reply actions

Yes

Trent had a great O-line, a great running game, and receivers that could catch the ball.

So, it’s hardly a fair comparison.

2010 was merely a glimpse of Chiefs to come...

by Scott B. on Jan 20, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Congrats Cassel

Hopefully he takes another step forward this offseason.

2011 Draft Needs:
SOLB, NT, WR, C, RT, depth..........

Big things poppin next year!

by Hail2DaChiefs on Jan 20, 2011 9:09 AM CST reply actions

Hands down Trent Green

I’ll take Trent over Cassel any day, we would of had the number 1 overall offense not just in rushing this season. Green could stretch the defense down the field with his arm, he could have opened up our offense.

by ChiefDailyBaked on Jan 20, 2011 9:30 AM CST reply actions

Maybe...

Give Cassel the O-line Trent had, though…and the results would likely be different.

2010 was merely a glimpse of Chiefs to come...

by Scott B. on Jan 20, 2011 9:35 AM CST up reply actions

Give the O-Line Green and the results would have been different. It goes both ways. There was much more of a passing threat when Green played and it wasn’t because of Kennison and Boerigter.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 20, 2011 9:47 AM CST up reply actions

trent green got sacked 32 times in 2005 with that o-line

Cassel got sacked 26 times this season, so the o-line arguement doesn’t hold water.
And Boerigter only caught 8 passes for 119 yards and no td’s in ‘05. Green’s top receivers were Kennison and TG, and the 3rd one was Samie Parker and he didnt even have half as many catches as the top 2 that year.
Priest, Kennison, TG, and Green were our offense that season, that’s one WR, one TE, and a RB plus Green. Why can’t Cassel put up numbers with Charles, DBowe, and Moeaki, why does he need another WR to be as good as Green was?

by ChiefDailyBaked on Jan 20, 2011 3:41 PM CST up reply actions

Green all day.

The most telling stats for a QB for me are yards per attempt and interceptions. Green destroyed Cassel in YPA, and both guys took good care of the ball, though it means more to me that Green was able to do it while also throwing the ball further.

by m.yashi on Jan 20, 2011 9:53 AM CST reply actions

I'll take Green outside the 20

But he was the master of the red zone interception

Cassel also has the ability to run in the td

I may be a smart ass, but at least I'm not a donkey

by Mayday07 on Jan 20, 2011 10:22 AM CST reply actions

td numbers are misleading

for me it’s about the pass attempts and total yards. green threw the ball 57 more times than cassel, but for 900 more yards. that’s an average of just under 16 yards per catch for those 57 passes. you could argue cassel doesn’t have a deep threat but green didn’t have much better of one in my opinion. anyone can throw check downs and a few slants. (though the chiefs ran a mean screen play with holmes).

take green for sure, at this point. might be a different story in years to come though.

by keep7925 on Jan 20, 2011 10:44 AM CST reply actions

Compare Green's average season against Cassel's

it isnt even close. Green is far better than Matt.

by bonesjackson on Jan 20, 2011 11:19 AM CST reply actions

The numbers don't tell the whole story.

Trent was much more a finished product. He had been injured and lost a season but he had lots of starts in college and experience in NFL. Cassel came to us with only one year starting experience (College and NFL). Trent had to wait for Offense to gel around him. Cassel is growing with the Offense. Trent began to succeed in 3rd year with Chiefs. Cassel stands out in only 2nd year with Chiefs. Trent had better O-Line. Cassel has had a lot less to work with as far as recieving corps. Both had good running games.

It looks like Cassel has more up- side as he is still a work in process.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 20, 2011 12:09 PM CST reply actions

Cassel, hands down...

Green was the fortunate recipient of, IMO, the greatest offensive line in NFL history. He was not as solid a QB as Cassel. Matt has done a lot more with less to work with over the course of his two seasons here. Matt is still learning too, where Green had plenty of years under his belt BEFORE acquiring the best o-line ever. Matty, to me, is still green and has a lot more room for growth, where Green was nearing the end of his career and had nowhere to go but down. Matt is a born leader and his commitment is second to none. The best is yet to come from Cassel. Hell, our line this season is voted as one of the top five in the league. Just think if we get a couple more rock-solid linemen to protect Matt’s back and free Charles even more. The sky is the limit, people.

2010 Chiefs are on the rise. This is the most excited I've been since 'Nam...

by kcchiefsfan72 on Jan 20, 2011 12:30 PM CST reply actions

Matt has done a lot more with less to work with over the course of his two seasons here.

Hell, our line this season is voted as one of the top five in the league

Seems like a contradiction to me.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 20, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions

Even if our line was truly top 5 this season...

which I’m a bit skeptical of, one would be very hard pressed to honestly compare it to the o-line that Green had. That was one of the all time best.

by cheapham on Jan 20, 2011 1:18 PM CST up reply actions

But to say that the line is top 5 in the league removes that as an excuse for Cassel not putting up the numbers that Green did.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 20, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions

Thanks, but not exactly...

I didn’t say they were top 5, I said they were voted as top 5. And it is asenine for anybody to think this line is better than the line Green had. To clarify, if they were voted top 5 and we get a couple more solid contributors, then they may play to a level close to that of yesteryear when Green was at the helm…

2010 Chiefs are on the rise. This is the most excited I've been since 'Nam...

by kcchiefsfan72 on Jan 20, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions

You’re argument is that Cassel has less to work with. The offensive line is not an excuse because, as you pointed out, they are considered one of the best in the league. So that leaves the running game. You can argue that Priest and LJ are better than Charles and Jones, but the differences aren’t that great. As far as receivers go, Boerigter and Kennison weren’t exactly Pro Bowl players. The difference is that Green was more accurate and could do more to open up the offense than Cassel can (at least up to this point).

To say that you’d take Cassel “hands down” seems like you’re doing that based on the assumption that he actually improves, which after seeing how the season ended is not a given. At no point in the season, or the past two season, has Cassel shown that he can raise his level of play against a good defense.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 20, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions

Touche...

and yes, I am running under the assumption that Cassel will improve. I also feel that a better line will do wonders for his passing game. Cassel still has a lot to prove and again, based on opinions, I believe he will prove his worth…

2010 Chiefs are on the rise. This is the most excited I've been since 'Nam...

by kcchiefsfan72 on Jan 20, 2011 6:47 PM CST up reply actions

These are the kinds of plays that make me think the line has little to do with it.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Jan 21, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions

Season-long QB Ratings for Both:

Green – 90.13
Cassel – 92.97

Just thought it would provide an interesting bit of info to add to the conversation. I never would have imagined that Cassel had the edge here. Then again, they’re trying to make him into a truly “efficient” QB. It seems that the Chiefs are heading in the right direction in that regard.

by cheapham on Jan 20, 2011 12:45 PM CST reply actions

qb rating doesnt mean anything when the qb is only throwing the ball 20 yards down field

Any qb can put a rating up like that

by ChiefDailyBaked on Jan 20, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions

The lower rating for Green is because....

…of his INT’S. He threw more INT’s and less TD’s than Cassel which will lower his score overall. However, Trent did not rely as much on passing TD’s as Cassel did. LJ and Holmes had 26 TD’s combined in 05. That’s as many TD’s rushing as Cassel had throwing. So the rating will get skewed a little.

I think the best criteria for measuring a QB is completion percentage because it calculates the number of times per pass that said passes are good. I mean seriously, what better way to rate a QB than on the percentage of his passes that hit the mark. If a QB’s job is to throw catchable balls to receivers, then to me, this is the best way to see how effective a QB is.

Obviously Green wins in that criteria. He was a more efficient and more consistent QB than Cassel has been. Time will tell if Cassel can play up to that level and improve his completion % for his career.

by caracasmc on Jan 20, 2011 5:13 PM CST up reply actions