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Who's 3-4 Defense are we trying to emulate?

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via farm3.static.flickr.com

2009 NFL regular season 3-4 Defensive rankings:

Total   Rush    Pass        Team

  01       08        01       NY Jets
  02       01        05       Green Bay Packers
  03       05        08       Baltimore Ravens
  05       03        16       Pittsburgh Steelers
  07       26        03       Denver Broncos
  09       04        20       Dallas Cowboys
  11       13        12       New England Patriots

  15       06        21       San Francisco 49ers
  16       20        11       San Diego Chargers

  22       18        24       Miami Dolphins
  30       31        22       Kansas City Chiefs
  31       28        29       Cleveland Browns

  NA      NA       NA       Buffalo Bills
  NA      NA       NA       Washington Redskins

Star-divide

Looking at the stats, A good pass defense can somewhat mask a poor run defense. Not so much the reverse. I asked on a previous post, Who are the Chiefs trying to emulate with our 3-4 defense. A nice reply is that it is the Patriots. Of Course. But is that the team? The two ends of the 3-4 scheme (kicking out the Minnesota Vikings and Cincinnati Bengals Hybrid defenses) are the Ravens and the Cowboys. The Ravens are Simply Huge up front, the Cowboys are Quick as S***. Block Eaters vs Penetrators. The Chiefs lean toward the Block Eaters end of that spectrum.

Now are the Chiefs angling on being a better Pass or Run defense team? In the 2009 draft you would think Rush Defense, then in the 2010 draft you would think Pass defense. A balanced Defense is nice unless your balance, like the Chiefs, was in the basement of the NFL like last year. You can see some unbalanced teams were near the top of the Total Defenses last year. Pittsburgh, Denver, and Dallas were strong in one phase not in the other.

So, The Chiefs wish to be balanced defensively based on the two previous drafts. The Chiefs wish to rotate a lot of bodies in on the Defensive line. The Chiefs with the selection of 3 DB's this year hope to shutdown the Big pass plays. Maybe we are trying to replicate New England. Or someone else. Any thoughts?

Geaux Chiefs

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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well, seems to me the Jets #1 overall would be a good place to start emulating ...

… ya think?

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Sep 6, 2010 4:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Well

maybe I think too much :)

Everything go well?

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 6, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

jobwise, no ... not a word back

but move was ok, now have Cricket Broadband Wireless … Dial-Up Slowness for Cable Price

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Sep 6, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice work

The Packers #1 in rush defense surprised me a bit, guess I never payed too much attention. They were #3 in scoring on offense, and the Jets were #17. I wonder how that affects the stats if teams are throwing more because they’re behind.

I’d prefer a balanced defense for the simple reason that to win a superbowl we’d have to beat different kinds of teams. The Jets and the Chargers. We’d have to stop the run one week AND have a strong enough secondary to shut down the teams that air it out the next week. Teams like Balt are scary now with their balanced weapons on offense.

Nice Post, rec’d

I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.

- George Burns

by BJ Kissel on Sep 6, 2010 5:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks Bajah

It is amazing how some teams (Baltimore can just load up to stop the run and it helps the secondary) and others (The Jets can just shut down the Passing game and force teams to attempt to run)

Hopefully, I guess, the Chiefs will show marked improvement this year in one or the other so we can crack the top 15 defenses.

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 6, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jets are freaky good on defense and they've only gotten better
  1. ranked defense adds Cromartie, Kyle Wilson, and Jason Taylor. plus a healthy Jenkins.

If our defense cracks the top 15 I’d be very optimistic about what our record would be.

I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.

- George Burns

by BJ Kissel on Sep 6, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Denver was 7th ranked D and a 8-8 record

not sure it is all just the Defense :)

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 6, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am confident in our run game :)

I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.

- George Burns

by BJ Kissel on Sep 6, 2010 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cromartie isn't an upgrade, and Jason Taylor is a has been

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Sep 6, 2010 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those guys are role players on that defense

that’s pretty good

I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.

- George Burns

by BJ Kissel on Sep 6, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

6 of the top 10 defenses run the 3-4

I am glad we moved quickly to the scheme if that is what Pioli/Haley wanted to do.

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 6, 2010 5:19 PM CDT reply actions  

I would say we are emulating Romeo's old Patriots defenses.

Not the current NE defense that has maybe slipped a little with the loss of some of their big name players from the Super Bowl teams.

In their three Super Bowl seasons they were better vs the run then pass.

2001: #24 YPG, #6 PPG, #24 vs Pass, # 19 vs Run
2003: #7 YPG, #1 PPG, #15 vs Pass, #4 vs Run
2004: #9 YPG, #2 PPG, #17 vs Pass, #6 vs Run

Now I think you have to factor in that teams were often playing from behind vs the Pats so that leads to more passing and less rushing. However, the formula seems to be, stop the run and keep them out of the end zone.

"There is no charge for awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda

Kool Aid Rocks!!!!

by KCporkchop on Sep 6, 2010 5:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks Pork

Yeah it would seem that the average 3-4 is going to be better against the Pass.
I think that is the Guts of the scheme. based purely on my not so perfect memory.
And part of the reason so many teams are moving from the 4-3 to the 3-4 defense in this passing era. The Chiefs are being somewhat obstinate in beefing up the Rushing game.
Maybe Pioli has some Tea leaves he is reading.

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 6, 2010 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

The College game is also noticing the 3-4 trend
Over time, the 3-4 gained prevalence in the NFL — nearly every team has employed it at some point in recent years — but in the past two decades, the defensive scheme became more of an oddity in college football. With most teams operating run-oriented offenses in college, defensive coordinators preferred a 4-3 scheme to have four linemen filling running lanes.

But heading into the 2010 season, more than a dozen teams will use the 3-4 as their base defense, and a few more teams plan to sprinkle odd-man fronts into their game plans. Georgia, Georgia Tech, Houston, Notre Dame, Stanford, Texas A&M and Texas Tech are switching their base defense to a 3-4 this season, and Alabama, Air Force, Army, Navy, BYU, California and SMU will continue to have three down linemen and four linebackers on the field in 2010.

Link

So maybe some more 3-4 defensive players to pick through in the future

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 6, 2010 5:40 PM CDT reply actions  

players would transition faster to the NFL

if they’ve played in that system already

I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.

- George Burns

by BJ Kissel on Sep 6, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes sir

We’ll just have a pipeline

I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.

- George Burns

by BJ Kissel on Sep 6, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's see...

We have a shutdown cornerback (or at least on his way)

We have a proven pass rushing LB than GETS to the QB on almost every play held or not.

Our D-Line is young and ready to proven themselves

We have a safety that can roam the centerfield, keep up with WR’s on man, Play Zone, or Roam in the box to help with the run.

We have one of the best running games in the NFL.

Our passing game won’t be that dominate.

Sounds to me, a lot like the Jets.

Jamaal Charles...Enough said.

by Chiefsfan85 on Sep 6, 2010 5:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Well I was only refering to the Defense

But yes we do seem to be riplicating the Jets Offense, sans the NAME WR’s they are accumulating. And the corresponding Salary constraints. And our GM is not a ********.
The Head Coaches are somewhat different too.

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 6, 2010 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Shaun Smith becomes Kris Jenkins

and Belcher becomes Bart Scott, who’s thomas?

I hope so but that’s the gold standard of a defense

I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.

- George Burns

by BJ Kissel on Sep 6, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

So how do you think a Flowers holdout would go if it was similar to "The Revis" story

Revis resigned for 4 years 46 Million

The Jets and Revis’ agents engaged in a heated war of words throughout the first week of camp before both sides agreed to a gag order with the media. The Jets reportedly offered a 10-year, $120 million contract and a four-year, $40 million deal; Revis’ agents asked for 10 years at $162 million.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/jets/jets_sign_darrelle_revis_sources_Vy5RZDyxPtFcDJ3dxfXSAI#ixzz0ynFjMyzH

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 6, 2010 6:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Offense

I haven’t looked it up, but I would be willing to wager GB’s run d is good because they score tons of points and force their opponents to start throwing early. (also the lions and bears have awful o-lines) O helps D stats for top teams every year. It drove the high mount of int’s for the saints, cardinals, and always makes Indy’s D stats better because of ball controll. KC has yet to dictate in any phase of the game. I hope that can change this year. Fewer 3&outs means fewer big play give ups.

by Chewyadg on Sep 7, 2010 2:56 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Good question...

all of the above, plus the Eagles…ok…maybe none.

by 12t on Sep 7, 2010 1:18 PM CDT reply actions  

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