An unbiased look at the QB position, and what the future may hold.
So now that the Preseason is over, and we are ready to begin our march to the AFC West crown, here is some "analysis" on the quarterback position and what we may hope for with this upcoming season.
Here are the comparisons of 2 QB's in their first season with the Chiefs. (sorry for the sizing my HTML skills are very mediocre).
I'll attempt to break what these numbers mean after the jump and then give you my two bits as well.
Those numbers are very similar, less than a 2% difference in completion percentage. Player A does have a 40 YPG advantage passing, but Player B had a better TD/INT ratio. And even though Quarterback Rating is a very flawed stat Player A and Player B have virtually the same Rating and they were both sacked quite a lot.
So in case you haven't guessed by now Player B is our very own fearless leader Matt Cassel, but Player A is Trent Green. Matt Cassel has received much of the blame for last season, despite him basically having to play with one arm tied behind his back for the first part of the season with Larry hauling the rock. During this time Cassel was abused in the pocket. Once he was jettisoned off and Sir Charles took over the offense really did improve.
With Larry the Chiefs offense averaged 15 PPG, and averaged 254 YPG (150 pass 100 rush). With Jamaal taking over running back duties the chiefs averaged 21 PPG and averaged 341 YPG (207 pass 134 rush).
As you all know Trent went on to have a much better second season in a Chiefs uniform. He had less yards but his Int were way down and his yards per attempt was up as well improving his QB rating dramatically.
Another thing that Trent Green had in common with Matt Cassel in their inaugural seasons as Chiefs, is that they had very poor play from the WR position. In 2001 Trent Green managed to get 110 receptions out of all of his WR's that year (128 if you count Mikhael Ricks as a WR). Heck the three headed "monster" that was Bowe/Chambers/Wade caught 119 passes last year despite having a billion drops amongst them. It stands to believe that like Green, Cassel should get help from his receiving crew in his second season.
So what does this mean for Matt Cassel's second year as a Chief? For one it will be much harder for me to give him excuses in his second season if he struggles. With Trents first season, having been in the Vermeil system before, most of his Interceptions could be blamed on the receivers not knowing their routes. You could also make that argument for Matt Cassel since he was more familiar with the offense than his inept receiving crew being as Todd Haley's system was similar to what Cassel ran in NE. The one dose of cianide I will add to this Kool-Aid is that I read an article on Football Outsiders where they linked drops more to the QB than the actual WR's, this scares the holy hell out of me, but I do believe this will be a non-issue for this coming season... So there you have it, my unbiased opinion on our fearless leader Matt Cassel.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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and much of Cassel's struggles last year were WR failure to catch
2010 Prediction: Chiefs go 10-6 and make playoffs
Twitter: @GiftNate
Nate Gift
which he said football outsiders puts back on bad qb play....
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Great job
With a run game i think Cassel will be fine . Bowe looks a lot better this year and if we can get good play from the rookies we could do pretty good .
CHIEFS fan 4 life
by Charles # 1 chiefs fan on Sep 5, 2010 8:18 PM CDT reply actions
So
Trint = Casshole?
and then Trent and Cassel become fan favourites, and Pro Bowl QB’s :)
Ninja Ass
Haha I forgot about TrInt
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
It was Tr-INT, according to Mr. Whitlock.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx
the writer forgot to mention That Green didn't fumble the ball 9 times and....
….that SUPER BOWLS aren,t won with mediocrity
Yep. This is the year
He’s got additional weapons, and it looks like he’s going to be helped by the best run game we’ve had in years.
If he can’t get his stat line at least close to Green’s 2nd year, it’s time to move on, because we’ve got WAY to potent a rushing attack (which will probably only be at it’s peak for a year or two) to waste on a mediocre QB.
I hope he succeeds!
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
a potent rushing attack
can make a mediocre QB look great!
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction....in other words Karma is a M______F_____
by Crunk4Cheifs on Sep 5, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
The sad thing is...
I had the idea to write this around the week before the draft… And then I started writing it about 3 weeks ago. So you do the math on how big of a slacker I’ve been about getting it done.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 5, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Your timing is good
I thought maybe I could slip a post in come GB Gameday.
All gone and little read.
Ninja Ass
i've made this comparison myself and wholeheartedly agree
i was always just too lazy to put numbers with it.
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
See above.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 5, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Something honest and unbiased today
Finally……
rec’d
I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.
- George Burns
Its not that Cassel isnt a good QB...
Its that he can’t throw the ball very far. 5-6 Y/A isn’t much of a threat. He needs to avg 7+ (Trent Green in his prime was easily 7.5+) unless we want a newer version of Trent Dilfer…
Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl... Trent Green never did...
But awesome argument.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 5, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Dilfer didn't screw up.. the D won the superbowl
led the league in total defense, points allowed, and interceptions… also they destroyed every QB that played them.
But now we are starting to get off topic.
The point of this was to never say that Matt Cassel was Peyton Manning. The point was that he may not be as bad as we thought, and if he can become a serviceable QB like Dilfer, and we can surround him with the right pieces then that at least is one piece we dont have to find.
Sidenote, Trent Dilfer is hands down my favorite football analyst ever. If he had more athletic talent who knows what he could have done.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 5, 2010 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I really hope so...
if not though… Jake Locker or Andrew Luck FTW
Jake Locker maybe, but there is no way we are gonna wind up with the first pick.
And Im not sold on Luck yet.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 5, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
What if...
St. Louis, and Tampa Bay are the first 2 picks.. I’d imagine Locker would end up going number 3
Go Chiefs!!!!
after I threw my doubts into this post, I at least looked up Cassel's career numbers, so I can be unbiased too.
In NE, with Moss and Welker, on a team he had been on for a few years, and a line who protected Brady, Cassel had a 7.2 Y/A.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think you can say that Dilfer didn't have a big arm
the guy could throw downfield. The issue with most QBs isn’t arm strength, it’s usually the other issues. If you can read defenses, make good and quick decisions, throw with accuracy, and handle game time pressure you can be a HOF QB (see Dawson, Montana for examples). I’m more concerned about his accuracy than his arm strength. We’ll see how he does in a second season.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx
One thing that concerns me with Cassel is....
The deeper we went into the season the more offensive threats he had, the better the line played, the more experience in the offense and he had way more help with the running game emerging but he played worse then he did in the first half of the year.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
Wasn't that Haley?
That supposed gave the fans the finger and said f*****s
Maybe Haley did suffer a concussion…
Go Chiefs!!!!
Cassel told the crowd to shut the f**k up after them booing
and Haley was said to of flipped off a fan that was mouthing him after the Browns game which is NOT true b/c I was right there and the fan is lying. Haley didnt even acknowledge him
Chiefs Will
What are you basing this on?
…And Im not saying your wrong, but he did average more yards per pass in the second half, and his most reliable receiver was Jamaal Charles. I wonder if Cassel threw more INT’s the second half because he was trying to force it? And since drop data is so iffy, do you know if the drop rates were worse in the second half than the first… I seem to recall it the drops getting worse as the season went on, but I could be wrong.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 5, 2010 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Cassel will be the game manager that he needs to be
Everyone knows that Matt Cassel will probably never reach the “elite” status of the current QB in the NFL. Pioli most likely knew this when he traded for him. Cassel does not seem to have the natural progression of checking his receivers, nor the arm strength/touch to throw the long ball. However, it won’t be Cassels job to win the game by himself. The “Right 53” will come together at play as a team, supporting their leader to win the game.
As shown in the article above, Cassel did not have the supporting cast to help him manage the game last season. Now that we have developed a rushing attack, have some good return men to help with field advantage, and a defense on the rise; we should be much improved (6-9wins). Cassel should have a much better season this year or there are no excuses. I am tired of listening to local sports radio dog on Cassel all day for not being an elite QB. The one trait that I like about him the most is his clutch performances at the end of games. Cassel seems to have a knack for leading the offense down the field to put the Chiefs in a position to win/tie in the 4th quarter. I think Pioli knew that Cassel had this Bradyesque quality in him, which is why he traded for him. I just hope that the defense can come up big this year and stop our opponents from scoring the winning td/fg in the 4th quarter this year…..
by chiefn25 on Sep 5, 2010 9:22 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
He does occasionally have the arm
To throw it downfield. That throw to Bowe against GB was pretty much on the money.
I can also think of a few downfield passes where he nailed it last year. A few to Chambers, the one to Copper, one to long, a couple to Bowe, one to Wade…
The problem is, why can’t he do it consistently? That’s where my concern lies. But I agree with what you’re saying about him where he’s at now, and he is a tough SOB that doesn’t ever quit.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I feel like
he was never given the option of the deep ball too often. But when he did throw it deep it was usually on the money or damn close. So IMO Cassel has a good arm, which for some reason most people don’t see
swish
Newbie here with the first greenie comment!!
I feel like Cassel could have a much better season throwing long. We probably haven’t seen much in preseason because Weis is trying to not show much of the playbook. Throwing long passes in the NFL in my opinion would primarily depend on two things. 1) Knowing what coverage the safeties are playing/ the QB reading what they are doing and 2) developing a chemistry with your WR to know where you need to place the ball where only he can make a play on it. It seems to me thus far, that we never truly had a “deep threat” last year till we picked up Chambers. The guy has OK speed for a “deep threat” but he is not a true blazer like McCluster. It seems like Cassel never really developed the chemistry with his receivers to put the pass right where it needs to be, while also having the WR adjusting their route slighty to make a play on it. That is what the true great QB/WR hookups due on a regular basis ( Manning to Harrison ). These guys both have an innate ability to know what the other person is going to do/think when passing the ball/adjusting routes. It seems that Cassel and Bowe are working on this trust. You can see prove in the GB game with the interception. Cassel’s pass to Bowe last week should have been to his outside shoulder, which wouldn’t have allowed the DB to make a play. Bowe saw this and adjusted his route to an hook out instead of a hook in, and Cassel threw the pass called in the huddle (hook in). I hope Cassel can get on the same page with our WRs, it will make our offense much more fun to watch!!
As for the topic of arm strength, Cassel doesn’t seem to be able to throw the long ball on a line. The majority of his long passes tend to have more of an arch to it and allows the DB to catchup/chance for deflection. It is ok for them to have an arch, if he can lead the WR perfectly where only he can make a play on the ball. If he could zip the ball to open WR downfield (Croyle), we wouldn’t have the minor qb controversy that we have now. I’m not saying Cassel can’t throw the deep ball. Hell every QB in the NFL can probably throw a ball 70yds +, but that doesn’t mean he can throw a line 40yds +, hitting a WR in stride sprinting down the sideline. Thats what seperates the true long passers, from the guys who give their WR a chance to make a play.
There is no way Chad Pennington can throw a football 55 yards, let alone 70+
But if you ask me the long ball is overrated. The completion percentage on passes thrown beyond 20 yards is very small. I would rather make tons of short passes with a much higher completion percentage. Get the ball in the hands of playmakers and let them create YAC. I will take a QB who can dissect a D under neath than a guy who can throw a football through a brick wall.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 5, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
I would rather us keep the chains moving on a consistent basis, but it doesn’t hurt to hit a big play every now and then. Keeps the defense backpedaling, which in turn opens up the underneath stuff. I’m happy just as long as were posting points on the board!! We need the offense to start out better at the beginning of games, they look so out of sync for about the first 3 series. That play won’t stack up against good teams.
I’d wager that Pennington could throw a pass over 60yds now, and I’m sure he could at one point in his career. He has had far too many injuries to be doing that on a regular basis these days.
Nah... He had a weak arm coming out of college too.
Several years ago I caught a QB skills competition and one of the events was to a long throw, and Michael Vick was the only one to throw it 70 yards, that really is a long way to throw a football.
And shoulder injuries never really heal. Its not like an elbow injury where they can swap out the parts. But once the shoulder has damage its never the same again. In baseball shoulder injuries end careers, and Chad has had 3 surgeries on it already, its never going to be 100%.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 5, 2010 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
rec
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction....in other words Karma is a M______F_____
by Crunk4Cheifs on Sep 5, 2010 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
What really bugs me...
Is the way people dog on Cassel for not being an elite QB, when in reality there are actually only maybe 4 or 5 elite QB’s in the league.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 5, 2010 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
"Elite"
Manning, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Schaub, Brady, ‘Phillis’ Rivers, Farve, McNabb, Rapelisberger.
Debatable, but there’s 10 who I can pretty confidently say are elite, able to save their team in a bad situation. I would take any of them and a handfull more over Cassel. (Well maybe not Rapelisberger or Phillis… Farve is old but hall of fame is calling.) The others I would take…
Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Sam Bradford (did you see him vs. the pats… cool customer with a crappy o-line), Thigpen.
Yell at me all you want.
This is me reading this comment
“Yes, agree, true, THIGPEN?!?!?”
"There is no charge for awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda
Thigpen? Don't talk about Thigpen! Thigpen?
Ok, I’m not sure I’d stick Eli or McNabb as elite. And agree Favre is too old. McNabb is getting there.
I’d take Flacco and Ryan for sure.
Chiefs WILL!
yeah wait till bradford gets tackled and lands on his shoulder
he will be done. he better stay away from suh. lol
how do you figure
They put the ball in his hands leading 14-10 against the eagles,he had WR open everywere,excellent protection and managed to get a pass knocked down,throw for a 3 yard loss while almost getting McCluster killed and then managed on 3rd and 13 to get D bowe wide open, so Cassell decides to stand 5 yards deep in the pocket get wacked in the back by a DE and nearly throws a pic.
while an interesting post, it is hard to say it is unbiased
when you use prejudicial languaget:
than his inept receiving crew being
With Trents first season, having been in the Vermeil system before, most of his Interceptions could be blamed on the receivers not knowing their routes. You could also make that argument for Matt Cassel since he was more familiar with the offense than his inept receiving crew being as Todd Haley’s system was similar to what Cassel ran in NE. The one dose of cianide I will add to this Kool-Aid is that I read an article on Football Outsiders where they linked drops more to the QB than the actual WR’s
Another thing that Trent Green had in common with Matt Cassel in their inaugural seasons as Chiefs, is that they had very poor play from the WR position
If this is unbiased, why does it seem that the blame is placed on the receivers? After all, you kind of throw in this disqualifier at the end.
You say both had very poor play from the wr position, but then say you read an article that blames drops on the QB.
And that makes me think…
High interception total and high drops (which you say the article projects to bad QB play). That sounds like a recipe for a bad qb to me. Add in the high sack numbers, and it sounds like an even worse qb.
Oh, and add in that one thing you didn’t touch much on.
and they were both sacked quite a lot
Yeah, 39 sacks for Green. 42 for Matt Cassel. I would imagine you didn’t talk about that in detail because you know that we all know that the Chiefs had a great offensive line then. And now, the line gets blamed for all of Cassel’s sacks, even though he had a higher number in NE.
But you didn’t really make this about the line at all, so I won’t dwell on it too much. Just kind of interesting.
For me, this post doesn’t give me hope like it might others. I was never a Trent Green fan. I like the guy, but he was a frustrating qb for me to watch. Yeah, he had a good arm. But he, like Cassel took too many sacks, and threw too many picks for my liking. He was the king of bone-headed plays for me. Of course, after watching Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac, he lookd waaaaaaay better, but ultimately, Green wasn’t anything special in KC.
Matter of fact, Green never took us all the way. I know, there will be an argument for Vermeil and a poor defense. Fine. But all that should do is make us appreciate Pioli and Haley for starting there first.
At the end of the day, I’m right back to my position on Cassel:
he is a very very good backup, a good leader, but just an okay to average qb. And elite teams need more than okay to average.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
oh, and another thing....
because you’re “unbiased”
With Trents first season, having been in the Vermeil system before, most of his Interceptions could be blamed on the receivers not knowing their routes. You could also make that argument for Matt Cassel since he was more familiar with the offense than his inept receiving crew being as Todd Haley’s system was similar to what Cassel ran in NE.
Isn’t it possible that qbs need time to get timing with their WRs? And that worse qbs require more time to get that timing with their wrs? So that higher interceptions may, at least in part, be caused by under-developed timing, not on receivers “not knowing their routes”?
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps our expectations are too high?
Great post as it really puts into perspective how tough it is to be an elite QB in this league, and perhaps shows us our expectations are a bit warped.
I am not a big fan of MC as he strikes me as someone who is mostly a “deer in the headlights” when he steps back to throw. But then apparently most of the other QB’s in this league are pretty much there too, or running for their life like our previous fave TT.
However, when I looked up a lot of these “elite” QB’s and then compared them to HOF QB’s and their numbers, well I think we are simply expecting to much.
Stats wise Rodgers & Rivers are as good as anyone who has ever played. And Peyton is an absolute GOD! Shoot TRINT’s :-) second season numbers over a career would make him HOF easily.
Without looking, would you take Elways 3rd full year?
Well it was 280 out of 504 for 55% with 3500 yds 19 TD/13INT and 79 rating.
Right now that sounds pretty solid to me, and we can then debate whether that is worth the money they are paying him.
What about 339 out of 553 for 60% for 4050 yds and 28 TD/18INT and an 86 rating?
That gets you the combined career averages of 2 fairly good QB’s named Farve and Marino. I guess then the money looks pretty good.
Yeah MC is not “it” but hardly anyone else is, either. Clearly Pioli pulled one right out of his rear with Brady in the 6th, and he has not been able to do it since, and really Romo is probably the closest after that and “he can’t win the big one”. Probably the hardest thing to do is find a top line QB.
I have pretty low expectations for this year as I think it’s winner at 7-9, and if MC is 300 out of 500 with 21 TD’s and 14 INT, gets a rating over 80, and is even known aroudn the league as “Check down Matt”, well we are headed in the right direction.
MC
his numbers in NE with Moss and Welker...
if MC is 300 out of 500 with 21 TD’s and 14 INT, gets a rating over 80,
2008:
327 completions in 516 attempts, 63.4%.
3, 693 yards; 7.2 Y/A.
21 touchdowns, 11 interceptions.
QB rating of 89.4
47 Sacks.
But again, that was with Welker and Moss. We don’t have Welker and Moss, so I wouldn’t expect those kinds of numbers. But if he gets close to those numbers in KC with our not-so-elite receivers, we’d probably be in the playoffs.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Hold up.
Above you say you can’t blame the wide receivers for his lack up success, but now you’re saying that you CAN blame his wide receivers in New England for his success?
Am I missing something here?
"The dirtier the sound the best I breathe, I tried to do it all for you and you didn't do anything for me"
Sounds about right, to me.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
sounds like a hard crowd to please.
Theres a saying I always heard in pittsburgh because of how tough their fans are that the back up QB is the favorite guy on the team.
"The dirtier the sound the best I breathe, I tried to do it all for you and you didn't do anything for me"
I think it is true to say that
Peyton Manning makes no-name, bland receivers look great. It can also be said that Randy Moss has elite receiving abilities to make average qbs look even better.
And no, I’m not talking about Moss making Brady look better.
I’m not saying that it can’t or isn’t the fault of the receivers for Cassel’s numbers. Just that it could be. as opposed to the position that it totally isn’t Cassel’s fault.
my attack is on the claim of being an unbiased opinion.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
You're right
with your assessment that WR’s can make a QB and QBs can make a receiver but you can claim that he was good in New England because of his receivers and bad in kc because of himself.
Even with the green bay game. Rewatch the 1st quarter and look at some of the throws he was making that the WRs just didn’t pull down. Just give the guy a break for at least a couple games. I think most sane people can realize that brodie is not a viable number 1, so matts the best we got. All the bitching and lack of faith isn’t going to help anything.
"The dirtier the sound the best I breathe, I tried to do it all for you and you didn't do anything for me"
by Jux on Sep 6, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
hey, I'm not against matt cassel.
I don’t believe he’ll lead us to a super bowl, but I’m not against him.
I didn’t have to post those receiver numbers, and if I had been out with bias to claim all out that Cassel sucks, I wouldn’t have posted them. The point is SinceMG said he’d be happy with certain numbers. I posted the 2008 numbers which are similar to what he wants to see from Cassel.
No, i don’t think Cassel is capable of duplicating those numbers on this team. Not because our receivers suck, or Cassel sucks. Cassel is ok. average. But a good leader. Our receivers are ok, average. maybe a bit above average. But they’re not Moss and Welker, so expecting him to post numbers similar to what he did when he had those two is a bit unrealistic IMO.
That said, we have a way better running game than the Pats ever cared to have.
Still, most people who harp on Cassel do it because of poor decision-making, etc.
You act like I’m cheering for the guy to fail. That would be pointless. He is our qb, and I want the Chiefs to win. And that means Matt Cassel succeeding.
But Cassel has to succeed, or else we won’t succeed as a team.
at the end of the day, my comments aren’t/weren’t an indictment on Cassel. But rather refuting the “unbiased” look at Cassel which proceeded to seemingly completely blame the receivers. There are other interpretations and I pointed them out. That is it.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
but you can claim that he was good in New England because of his receivers and bad in kc because of himself.
one could argue that the “true Cassel” is somewhere between. And that Moss and Welker had a positive influence on Cassel’s numbers, but that Bowe, Chambers, etc had a somewhat negative effect on Cassel.
the average between both seasons (08 in NE, 09 in KC):
299 Completions in 505 attempts, for a 59.2%.
3309 yards. 19 TDs, 14 INTs. 6.6 Y/C. 79.7 Rating.
And 45 Sacks.
I could see something around there this season. Except the sack numbers. better not be over 35.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
That looks pretty good IMO
I would hope the short passing game negates a few of those Interceptions too. 2400 rushing yards to go with that should be what
5700 yards of Offense would place the Chiefs at #12 offensively in 2009 stats
Ninja Ass
yeah, I'm not saying those numbers look bad.
I think they’re good too. Except that Sack number.
That said, our running game is better than last year w/ 2.7 and NE’s in 2008, so he may not get that many attempts. but its a moot point, because we have no clue what the run/pass ratio will be.
As long as Cassel doesn’t get sacked as much and cuts down on interceptions, our offense should be effective.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 7, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
no. I'm just quoting his own post.
he says that football outsiders say that drops are on the QB, not the receiver. His info, and “unbiased” opinion don’t mesh.
I was merely pointing that out, and pointing out that his inferred position isn’t the only one. That another interpretation isn’t that it is receivers running wrong routes or not knowing routes, but bad QB play.
If anything, the above numbers I just posted could be used to say that Cassel can be successful when he has tools around him.
But that was the point of the post. I’m just offering up another suggestion. you know, because the title said it was unbiased, but yet all alternatives weren’t provided. Just the author’s “unbiased” biased opinion.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah...
Its unbiased because I say both sides of the argument. Just because the receivers had drops doesn’t mean you can blame them entirely on the QB. There is going to be a difference in the ‘catchability’ of one QB’s passes compared to the passes of another. The point of the article was to compare Trents first season with Cassel’s first season. And since WR drops data is not the easiest data (nor the most reliable metric) its hard to compare the receivers. And regardless if the receivers drop passes Matt Cassel should throw less INT’s this year regardless.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 6, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
my point is that you didn't explore all other avenues.
just the ones that made your “unbiased” point.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah…
Its unbiased because I say both sides of the argument.
Really? because the only thing remotely for the other side of the argument is this quick blip you mention and don’t elaborate on.
The one dose of cianide I will add to this Kool-Aid is that I read an article on Football Outsiders where they linked drops more to the QB than the actual WR’s
By all means, if I’m missing the other side of the argument in the above post, point it out to me.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
You're basically arguing the use of one word.
and not that the article isn’t good or even that I might be right. Can’t please everybody I guess.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 6, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
better? it is a bad article because the title is misleading and it is indeed biased?
If your sole point was to prove that Cassel= Trent Green, congrats.
Otherwise, make it unbiased, look at every angle.
The comparison to Green is nice. But I didn’t even like green for our QB. If you want to argue that all we need is a trent green/trent dilfer qb to win, that is a different post than this one.
If you want to discuss potential factors that influence a qb’s statistics, that’s a different post than this one.
I’d rather see a more indepth debate about that football outsider’s article.
so for me, this post doesn’t do it. Sure, it gives a glimpse of what the future may hold. But only one glimpse. I’d assume that if it wasn’t biased, it would cover all possible/logical scenarios of what the future may hold.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
In all fairness, the Football Outsiders article wouldn't get much play...
I don’t even know where to find it. I might have the link in an email somewhere, I sent them an email asking them if there was a sort of range factor like there is in baseball. I was trying to figure out how legit the receiver drops were, because just counting drops is unreliable. I would really like to know what qualifies as a drop and what doesn’t. But I’m getting off topic.
This will be my last defense of the article, but I think you are reading too much into the idea of “unbiased” clearly it is going to be a little biased if Im going out of my way to support a player who is generally not liked, and between you and me, the receiver part was originally not part of it then was added last minute, perhaps I should have never added it, I don’t know. When I started to add it I thought I would be able to find more data, but like I said “drops” are a difficult metric to find info on. I would imagine if you had 20 people watch every Chiefs game from last year you would have quite a range of how many drops the team would have.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 6, 2010 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
but one doesn't know that until they read the article. how can we know you are going to support Cassel based off of the title? I truthfully expected a look at Cassel or Brodie, whatever, from different angles.
I’m just saying.
That’s where some of the frustration comes in. This is basically a bait and switch.
And is unbiased as things that come out of our President’s mouth.
But at least you’re admitting it now.
Still, the comparison between Cassel and Green is interesting. And at least somewhat comforting for this season.
Here’s to hoping Cassel can duplicate his numbers from NE. Minus sacks.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I worked on the post for like 2 weeks, and threw the title on there in 2 minutes (if that).
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 6, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
okay.
I’m not trying to be argumentative or anything. I just have a natural propensity to play devil’s advocate or take different positions. Just trying to consider other/all possibilities.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 7, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, I feel bad.
it is just frustrating…I’m going to let it go.
still, some interesting thoughts came out of the posts.
for example, Trent Green had a great o-line w/ the chiefs. why did he get sacked so much? Same with Cassel in NE.
hopefully AG is right and there are positive gains comin’.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 7, 2010 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the questions are valid
Some posts die if the answers are all black and white. The best posts end up with a question for someone to dig into and the poster that has the answers to the question. AG had the question :)
you had the fly in the ointment :) The solution is not answerable yet :) But I rec’d AG for the Question and you also for the Fly!
Ninja Ass
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 7, 2010 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Im much MUCH too lazy to post too often.
And there is so much content that goes up, rarely do I get an original thought and then get it out before someone else.
I really want to buy the Football Outsiders Almanac, so if I did perhaps I could delve into their plus/minus on our receivers.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 7, 2010 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
and i'm too lazy or busy to just start a new post
about my ?s. lol.
now that classes have started again, and a baby is here, its harder to procrastinate..
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 8, 2010 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I sent an email to your the address in your profile
with the links to Football Outsiders plus/minus receiver metrics.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 7, 2010 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah i got it. thanks!
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 8, 2010 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions
The comparison between cassell and green is rediculous
Green simply did not make the type of high school mistakes Cassell makes. You pro cassel people just are not watching what he is doing in the pocket.
Really?
well I am interested in seeing your data to back it up, instead of just saying its ridiculous.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 8, 2010 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
but once again, if your sole point is to prove that Cassel is similar
or could end up being equal to Green, then this is a good post. even if the title is misleading.
That said, I’m not here to advocate that Cassel sucks.
Nor am I saying your writing sucks.
Just that it is biased, and there are other issues that weren’t explored, or explored in depth.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Defense Played it's Part
I haven’t noted anyone pointing out that the fact that Matt was was forced to make things happen, in bad field position, playing from behind too often.
Drops, sacks, and he (number27) who’s name must not be mentioned, were just more dimentions of the suffering he was presented.
I hope he’s not damaged goods.
My sex addiction therapy was going well...till my therapist shows up with a gallon of canola oil and a monkey trained to work a video camera...
Wait... I thought Lin Elliot was the guy to not be named.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
by averagegatsby on Sep 6, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
he was sacked more with the pats. time for a new excuse. this one gets old.
as said earlier, Trent got sacked A LOT his first season in KC. Cassel got sacked A LOT in his season as a starter in NE and his first season in KC.
Trent had an all-pro line in KC.
Cassel had a pretty good in in NE.
So perhaps the sack numbers are more indicative to the ability/mental processes of the qb, not the line. Just a thought.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 6, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
to your point
Cassel (and the whole offense) should be a lot better off this year due to Arenas and to any improvement on defense.
I agree.
Chiefs WILL!

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