Todd Haley can do whatever he wants after leading the Chiefs to a 3-0 start, but his treatment of Charles remains curious at best. With the team apparently set on establishing veteran Thomas Jones as the primary back, Charles has played the ancillary role through three weeks. So how did he pace all backs in DYAR this week? Small miracles. He converted both the third downs he faced, including a 24-yard run on a third-and-20 draw. Seven of his 12 runs went for five yards or more, and four of them went for double-digit yardage. He was even more effective as a receiver, where all three of his targets resulted in catches, first downs, and gains of anywhere between 17 and 22 yards. What else does he have to do to get a larger share of the workload in Kansas City? Bigger miracles.
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Week 3 Quick Reads
I think the key moving forward is remembering that this is a very good problem to have.
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Maybe part of the reason he has been so productive is the way he is being used.
Pound them with Jones, and then Charles can rip off the big plays.
by saskwatch on Sep 28, 2010 12:58 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
yeah..becasue Charles didn't put up gaudy stats last year when he got the
whole running load placed on him???
Quit saying that. It's well-documented that he's had that shoulder problem since COLLEGE.
Stop pretending a couple 20+ carry games last year did it to him, it’s false and ludicrous. He’s bigger than several starting RBs in the NFL.
by bamachief5558 on Sep 28, 2010 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
And since he has a history of shoulder problems they want to be smart about his work load.
Remember when Herm ran Larry Johnson 400+ times in a season. He was never the same after that. I think the Chiefs know they have a special player in Charles and want to be smart about how they use him.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
Yeah well that's why he had surgery.. to fix it.
But I’m not saying feed the guy the ball 25 times a game. 15-20 sounds better to me. I’m just saying people need to quit acting like he’s gonna break in half if he gets a big load sometimes.
And I’m really not complaining. We’re the number one rushing offense in the NFL, so it’s apparently working.
It’s just gonna drive me nuts if we’re struggling to score points and he only carries it 11 times (Cleveland). I feel like he’s our best method of generating yards and points.
by bamachief5558 on Sep 29, 2010 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions
LJ didn't really change. He just lost his OL.
"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"
false. he got older and he got worn down, just like dozens of running backs before him
The only people who really know where [the edge] is are the ones who have gone over it.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Sep 29, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
As long as they keep winning, who cares
Why not use him more as needed down the line. As my sig implies…..
Predictions:
This year IS be better.
oh, and...
Todd Haley doesn't give a damn about your fantasy team.
+1
He did the same with McCluster. Used him as much as they needed to in the first half and in the second half backed off to save him. There’s no use using up everything you have by week 3.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 28, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
In the words of Charlie Weis "It's a long season"
And i don’t know about everyone else but if we’re in the playoff hunt down the stretch I want a fresh and healthy Jamaal Charles.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
Having a fresh Charles who's ready to make good on his impatience, like last year...
…might be awesome.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
by burntorangehorn on Sep 28, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
We're saving him for a coming out party against TEN later this year.
Chris Johnson will be dead from carrying so much and will get shut down by Romeo, Dorsey, DJ, et al and Jamaal Charles will run for 300 yards and Todd Haley will look like a genius while Jeff Fischer will look like an idiot.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Gandhi.
I had no problem with last week's split.
When we’re up by 14, Charles doesn’t need to be fed the rock.
Agreed. I had no problems with almsot having 2 hundred yard rushers against the 49ers.
I just think in a game like we had against the browns we shoulf use our main playmaker more.
by bamachief5558 on Sep 28, 2010 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Keep everyone guessing.
We have two great backs. I say keep on keeping on. I don’t care who’s fantasy team is suffering because Charles hasn’t been let loose. We are winning games and that is the stat that I care about.
Ever seen the movie Green Street Hooligans? That's how I feel about my Chiefs.
I do care about the fantasy standpoint
Since I have Charles in a few leagues. That said, Chiefs wins mean more to me than fantasy wins do.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Gandhi.
Exactly
The only ones sore about Charles role are fantasy palyers. And I’m sure Charles wants the ball more, but that’s because he’s a competitor.
The more important thing is winning. I remember when Tony G broke one of his receiving records; when asked how he felt about it, his answer went something along the lines of, “I’d rather we had won the game”.
Seems like the only ones who care more are the Fantasy Football owners...
People need to remember these are real people playing a real game trying to get to the real playoffs and eventually the Superbowl. It’s not about statistics and what’s happened in the past. It’s about playing smart football with your team, not just one player but the ENTIRE TEAM.
I can kind of agree but...
I think Charles is the best back on the team, gives us the best chance to win, and makes every play he is in a chance to score, get a first down, or get us halfway down the field. Can’t say that Jones is better than Charles, he does not give us a better chance to win or make a big play. So Charles should get more touches.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
He may give us the better chance to score...
but you also have to remember about clock management. I’m always reminded of the Vermeil Chiefs and how they would score quickly, too quickly. It wouldn’t allow our defense to rest and before you know it the other team is coming back. It was always frustrating watching those games become a shoot out. I think what they’re doing here is smart. Jones isn’t 2.7, he’s actually getting good yards that make 2nd and 3rd down managable and at the same time running down the clock. I love Jamaal and what he brings to the offense but I think what we saw against the 49ers is what Haley and the other coaches would like to see, offense moving the ball down the field effectively and effeciently enough to get points, run down the clock, and allow our defense to rest so they can make those 3 and out stops against the opponent. In other words it’s a balanced attack by all three phases (Special teams, offense, and defence).
by RA_ChiefsFan on Sep 28, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
but you also have to remember about clock management. I’m always reminded of the Vermeil Chiefs and how they would score quickly, too quickly. It wouldn’t allow our defense to rest and before you know it the other team is coming back. It was always frustrating watching those games become a shoot out.
Under Vermeil our defense sucked…it no longer sucks.
If we force the opponent to punt, and then on our first play Charles rips off a 78 yard TD run, then our defense will just hit the field and force another punt.
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
Take a recent Saints game...
Can’t remember which week but their defense allowed the opposing team to march down the field and score a touchdown. You could tell all through that drive the defense was wearing down. After the switch in possession Drew Brees and the offense struck back quickly. Great for the Saints offense because they were now on top but the defense, who needed the rest, now had to go right back out on the field. I’m all for getting as many touchdowns as we can get but it’s also apparent that Haley and his staff not only want to control the ball but the clock as well…
by RA_ChiefsFan on Sep 28, 2010 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a good point. Denver was like that on their SB runs.
They’d run and play to stop the run. If you COULD score over-the-top against them, they’d pretty much let you get away with it, and then when they got the ball back, they’d GRIND your D into dust.
Sometimes, the ONLY way your offense can score against the opponent is to throw it over the top. This doesn’t mean your strategy is poor. It just means that your talent isn’t capable of grinding it out the way you’d like them to do.
That’s why, despite all this “pass-happy league” BS, your ultimate chance of success is in running the ball on O and stopping the run on D.
"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"
When will these guys finally realize
that what Haley is doing is brilliant? You just have to laugh.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Charles was a major part of the SF game.
He was utilized to stretch the field using his speed. The 49er defense was gassed. Notice how things began opening up for Jones in the middle? Thanks in part to Charles and some great pass plays.
It's a great balance
I don’t care what guys like this say. Sure Jamaal is running for a high average but stopping a guy like him when the defense is gassed is so hard to do. Throw him the ball, run draws, all it does is open the middle up for our TE to do work and get single coverage on McCluster
Use thomas jones while we have him
We signed TJ for this very reason. Take the punishment while still being productive and let Charles jump in when we need him. We will need him more as the season goes along so I love the fact that Haley is using him sparingly. Plus Jones may only be here one year so use him while we have him Charles is going to be here awhile ( I hope) So keep him fresh and healthy.
Wake up People...The NFL season is a marathon.
Haley is using Jones to pound other teams and using Charles selective at the beginning of the season. Once the Chiefs opponents beat themselves up and their defenses get worn down they will have Charles that will be fresh down the stretch or at the end of ballgames. To pound Charles down after down is just stupid and increases your odds of injury. So far the Chiefs have not had to resort to using Charles in this matter, The NFL season is a marathon people..calm down and wake up to this fact.
by NFL season ticket holder on Sep 28, 2010 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
-1 i do not like that at all
Players are going to freak, and that almost gurantees a lockout
by readANDgold58 on Sep 28, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Is this the owners getting back at the players for De-certification votes?
I’m not too familiar with the whole thing.
Member of the "done discussing Matt Cassel till week 6 club"
No, the 18 game season has been a done deal for quite awhile now.
Even though Polian just got around to saying it. Goodell brought it up months ago, and not just as a suggestion. The only question is not if, but rather, what do the players get in return.
Very simple idea of mo games equaling mo money.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
by JComp11: It might NOT equate to more money.
The players will need quite a lot in return. Teams will have to carry bigger rosters, and, if you listen to Howie Long, the owners will need to do a lot more for the players in other ways, to make up for the extra beatings they’re taking. I’m not so sure it’s smart, and I’m not so sure the owners are being smart, if, by seeking to get a little richer, they upset the applecart.
They have something very good going, right now, as is. If anything, they ought to be thinking more about how to take care of the players who are NOT cashing-in for the HUGE money – the rank and file.
"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"
thanks
i know they’d talked about the 18 game season for a while but if I understand this correctly, which I might not, if all the teams decertify this is going to be a HUGE mess. Correct?
Member of the "done discussing Matt Cassel till week 6 club"
I don't understand it completely.
I know it allows the players to sue the league for locking them out, but I’m not sure what the owners can do in return. Whether they can open the doors, and start hiring under their own rules or what, rather than locking them out. That could be an antitrust violation (collusion). I also don’t know how the players will negotiate collectively, without a union. I guess they’ll probably retain the current head of the NFLPA to represent them, even though they won’t legally be a union.
So yeah, I could see it becoming a HUGE mess if they don’t come together before then. A player strike would seem to be a lot less messy, but the owners are the ones looking for more, not the players.
Ok. I guess I don't understand it that much then
I thought if they decertified they could sue their team, or owner because they wouldn’t be union-certified anymore. I thought it was players just trying to get leverage over the owners and the 18-game schedule going through was the owners trying to get some of that money back from the players.
Someone on Jim Rome said it best I think, Nobody wants to hear millionaires arguing with billionaires about who should get more money. It’s OUR MONEY they’re splitting!
Member of the "done discussing Matt Cassel till week 6 club"
One thing heavily in the owners' favor...
Is that the TV deal they negotiated pays them next season, whether or not there are any games played. That is HUGE. The players have a lot more incentive to get something done than the owners do. The owners will lose out on ticket sales and the other revenues associated with attendance, but they’ll still be getting those big checks from the networks.
That's a good point
This thing is a mess
Member of the "done discussing Matt Cassel till week 6 club"
Goodell also brought up eliminating the 3-point stance.
Entirely. No, I’m not joking.
How about we just quit accepting everything this guy says and let him ruin football? The fans are kind of what matters here.
by bamachief5558 on Sep 28, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Another thing to point out is we haven't been really losing this year.
I think if we ever had been down by 2+ scores we wouldve seen Charles alot more.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
OMG he's averaging 7 yards per carry
We should just run JC 60 times a game, he’s averaging more then Matt cassel is per attempt or TJ per run. OR the reason why he’s doing so damn is because he’s fresh the entire game, the players on the other side team had to spend the week preparing for 2 different type of runners and didn’t get the coverage right, We are blocking right to get him into space. If we use JC more he will get more yards, but I will gladdly take his 97 on 12 carries over CJ2k’s 120ish on 32 because that is exactly where JC’s stat line would head if we fed him more
by cralston on Sep 28, 2010 1:17 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
And this.
And, to add, as long as we’re winnin, it works out. I imagine if we find ourselves sliding towards the losing side of a game, Charles will see more of the load.
Eh, 7-9... To be revisited during the Bye week.
I don't know about that last sentence.
I am totally for what the chiefs are doing right now with the running game and clock management, and I think it’s a good idea to use JC as we need him and save him for later in the season.
But, if JC got as much carries as CJ2k he would definatley have more yards and more yards per carry. But the thing is, it’s not necessary.
Why I know this is because on the only games JC has had 20+ carries {which was the last 4 games of last year} he got 658 yrds in 4 games.
His stats actually prove that the more carries he has had in a game, his ypc was higher. I’m not gonna do that math right now to get it exact but when he carries 20+ his ypc is at least 7 or 8.
I know it’s unlikely to get 658yrds every 4 games but if he did he would get 2632 yrds {none of those games he got more than 25 carries}
People are trying to make a controversey
here where none exists. I call bullsh*t. Throw the flag, fifteen yards unsportsmanlike conduct….unnecessary bullsh*t!
"The Hammer"
by G.L. on Sep 28, 2010 1:18 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
yeah im sick of hearing it, the argument is that hes chris johnson and can take a 20 carry beating
ok…thats nice
doesnt mean we WANT to give him that beating that you think he can take…Id rather have a healthy charles come playoffs, and use jones inside….
but hey, they would argue that KC needs to change it up at 3-0 with the number 1 rushing attack and we dont even have a running QB
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
And that is why they're football OUTSIDERS
by KCinIL on Sep 28, 2010 1:18 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
FO is one of the better football sites out there
Present company excluded of course…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNm2rFzdvW8&feature=related
by LHO on Sep 28, 2010 1:20 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Ummm….did you miss the 5,000 people freaking out last week on here?
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
FO’s statistics come from completely breaking down every single play of every single game of the season. They’re known as the leading statistics in professional football and don’t exactly say things without knowing the complete situation.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
And a lot of them do say things just to stir the pot
Or get people to listen, read, or watch them as well.
we lead the nfl in rushing using 2 backs and keeping our most explosive one fresh.
im sure some games charles may see just as many carries.
its just a long season, and now that its going to 18 games, even less will be taking a 20 carry load….jones is the best answer since hes just a beast workhorse
on another note, looks like S.Smith is going to get either fined or suspended…On the DP Show Dan asked Ray Lewis what he thought about it(he had not heard of it) basically said there is far worse that happens in the pile, and hes done far worse
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
getting your finger snapped and broken knocking you out for games and changing your career come to mind
a low blow on your knee cap comes to mind from behind.
not a huge fan of getting the eye gouge…
what smith did was indeed dirty, but it didnt knock the guy out of the game
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
finger snapped and broken reference can be pointed to Bill Romanowski. hes admitted to doing such to a lead running back
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
seems fantasy clouds the minds of "football" fans...I love charles, hes great...but to have him fresh
to use out of the backfield, for screens, for his 12-15 carries that you hand pick…
in a 2 back league its just a bit surprising that people expect KC to use charles running inside when they have jones to do that, and can save up charles’ energy…at this point arguing with success on a team that has had very little is sort of silly.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Yeah, it is and do you remember
people saying Charles was “too little” to be a feature back? Go figure.
"The Hammer"
This complaint by FO
has to be coming from someone that is looking at a stat sheet and didn’t actually watch the game. I thought the mix of Charles and Jones was masterful on Sunday. The SF defense was off balance and worn down and the Chiefs just kept rotating in a fresh guy whose change of pace seemed to throw them off every time. I have ZERO complaints about how they were used against SF. Now SD and Cleveland I felt like maybe they could of used Charles a little more early in the game.
"There is no charge for awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda
by KCporkchop on Sep 28, 2010 1:29 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
damnit reply fail
this is going to you Porkchop
by readANDgold58 on Sep 28, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
deadhorse picture, please
this is a non-issue… as I’ve said 100 times before :)
Arrowhead Pride: a place to intelligently discuss pros and cons of things that aren’t likely to actually happen, and things of which we have zero control or input
Jamaal Charles started against SF.
And he accounted for 154 of out 457 yards… or 33% of our total offensive yardage. THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM.
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 28, 2010 1:47 PM CDT reply actions
Fantasy BS...
Not everyone who thinks Charles needs more carries is a Fantasy Football player. So, give me a break on that one please.
I, for one, would just like Charles to get more opportunities…since he is such an explosive player. Hard to see him standing on the sidelines for entire series at a time.
He was used more in the SF, yes. We have not lost a game, true. We currently lead the league in rushing. Absolutely.
However, I see nothing wrong with wanting one of the most explosive players in the NFL to have the majority of the touches for our team. (And not like 30 or 40 a game…so spare me that one, too.)
I thought TJ came here to give Charles a breather when he needed it…not the other way around.
So…fire away.
Chiefs will. But...will Cassel?
10 + wins in 2010. Chiefs SHOCK the NFL!!! Mark it down.
3-0, we're winning games,
Charles accounted for a third of our total offensive production, we have other play makers to get the ball to too… like DMC and Moeaki.
Spare me this “Charles needs the ball more” BS. This is a team effort, and we have several guys that can help carry this team. Getting them the ball more often will make this a team that is:
1. Hard to game plan for
2. One of the most dynamic offenses in the NFL.
3. Keeping all players fresh by distributing the carries/touches equally.
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 28, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
By all means…let’s give one of the best RB’s in the NFL the ball less.
8-10 touches a game. Don’t want to wear him out.
Chiefs will. But...will Cassel?
10 + wins in 2010. Chiefs SHOCK the NFL!!! Mark it down.
He's been getting closer to 15 touches
And if he isn’t unhappy about it, and the team is winning, then what is being accomplished by giving more touches?
Predictions:
This year IS be better.
oh, and...
Todd Haley doesn't give a damn about your fantasy team.
Actually he got exactly 15 touches,
AND ACCOUNTED FOR ONE THIRD (1/3, 33%) of our total offense against the Niners. And by spreading the ball around to Jones, Charles, Moeaki, McCluster, Bowe, and Chambers the 49ers were kept completely off balance. They couldn’t adjust to the Chiefs personnel because we weren’t one dimensional. What you’re proposing is removing touches from these guys and allowing the opposing defense to key in on Charles. Do you really think that more touches for Charles would have made that much of a difference last Sunday? I don’t. What we saw against the Niners was the epitome of the Chiefs offense, the full reality of it. THAT is the offense that we ultimately want on the field each and every Sunday… NOT the Jamaal Charles Show.
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 28, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
nicely said, rec
the only thing I hope…
What we saw against the Niners was the epitome of the Chiefs offense, the full reality of it. THAT is the offense that we ultimately want on the field each and every Sunday… NOT the Jamaal Charles Show.
the offense was GOOD on Sunday, but I hope it’s not the best we ever see… I hope they keep getting better
It's all about the gameplan
I agree with that. Completely. In the SF game...
But, I also thought he was under used in the two previous games.
Listen…if I’m up by 10-14 points, then I’m going to pound it with TJ. He’s the perfect back for that. Protecting a lead. If I’m trying to score some points (which is the object of Offense, if I’m not mistaken), then I’m going to give the ball to my best RB…which is Charles. A guy who has the potential to take it to “the house” anytime he touches the ball.
I’m not trying to argue with success (so far)…but I fail to see why the opinion that Charles needs a few more touches a game is so objectionable to some. I don’t see other teams limiting carries (or touches) by their main playmakers.
Chiefs will. But...will Cassel?
10 + wins in 2010. Chiefs SHOCK the NFL!!! Mark it down.
Well, yeah...I suppose so. Because that's every other team in the league besides us.
I just don’t see other teams limiting the amount of times their “playmakers” get the ball, whether it’s RB, WR, or TE. They get the ball into the hands of their best weapon(s) as often as possible.
I just hate to see Charles standing on the sideline half the game…when we’ve all seen what he can do with the ball in his hands. That’s all.
Chiefs will. But...will Cassel?
10 + wins in 2010. Chiefs SHOCK the NFL!!! Mark it down.
We seem to have many weapons though.
Every extra “touch” you give Charles is taken away from someone else. How many times an individual player gets his hands on the ball is the silly games they play with Terell Owens and Randy Moss. We don’t need that here. I haven’t had any problem with a 3-0 team yet. Save the complaints for losses. That’s when the second guesser’s can cut loose.
Keeping perspective...improvement is 6 wins, but I think 8 is attainable.
He may very well have been underused in those games...
But I think he was underused by design. Not because Haley hates JC or is trying to teach him a lesson. Not because Haley is a dumbass that can’t see the writing on the wall. The reason I think he was underused, and the offense was basically stifled for the first 2 weeks is this:
Week 1: We got a fortunate lead because of JC and then the McCluster return. And then it really started raining. Haley adjusted to go with a ball protection offense, and let the Chiefs play defense, at home. Doing that didn’t call for the offense we saw last Sunday. It was basically pound the rock and milk the lead… or in other words give the ball to TJ a bunch. It worked.
Week 2: On the road, I think the Chiefs had a game plan here to play ball control again. Also… the Browns are not a very good team. Haley, Crennel and Weis may have wagered that the Chiefs could beat this sad Browns team without revealing much of their play book (which I think they were trying to keep under wraps until they had to open it up). Again, the coaches and team executed, and it paid off. It was a close win, and it was ugly, but I think it was a win designed to be ugly.
Week 3: The play book is opened up, at home, in nice weather, against a good SF defense. The fans get into it and the Chiefs end up DOMINATING their opponent in all phases. Fan support is at an all time high in 3 years… and the Colts have been given one game of the Chiefs real offense to game plan for.
I’m telling you man… this was all planned from week 1. You hear Haley talking about “season quarters” and here we are, with what looks to be a well executed plan reaching it’s final stage. The Colts. We’ll have 4 tapes on them, they’ll have 3 on us… and only one tape of our true, perfectly executed offense. The colts DC is going to have his work cut out for him.
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 28, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Also, as for this:
but I fail to see why the opinion that Charles needs a few more touches a game is so objectionable to some. I don’t see other teams limiting carries (or touches) by their main playmakers.
Name another team that has:
Had two 100 yard RBs in one game (97 and 95 is close enough), PLUS
A rookie TE that is leading the team in ReYards and TDs, including that incredible 1 handed TD catch PLUS
The NFL Rookie of the Week winner PLUS
You don’t see other teams limiting their star RBs carries because there is only one team that can do that and get away with it…
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 28, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Whoops... one "PLUS" too many.
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 28, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not as big on the "rookie of the week" thing as some are.
It’s more an artifact of the Chiefs going after playmakers rather than role players in the draft. Yeah, they picked some good ones, but an interior lineman may NEVER earn rookie of the week, even though he’s the guy you needed to draft at that time.
"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"
That's a valid argument...
…the first time they lose a game.
Personally, I don’t see the point of using such a dynamic runner any more than necessary, unless he needs more carries to get into a groove. That doesn’t seem to be the case with Charles. I don’t want to see him get injured or worn out any sooner than necessary.
Predictions:
This year IS be better.
oh, and...
Todd Haley doesn't give a damn about your fantasy team.
WIth the way we want to set up our running game I think Haley is right
it doesn’t matter who you call the “primary” back. Neither of those guys could take a whole season alone with the way we’re running this offense (see the excellent Joe Poz piece on 2.7). I think starting with Jones makes Charles “change of speed” even more effective. Seeing two fresh backs just destroying the 49ers made me think of how effective these guys will be at the end of the season when the shots taken throughout the season start to accumulate on players. Their legs are going to be fresher, and I think that will make Charles in particular even more effective.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx
I like Jones’s success rate mixed with Charles’s DVOA. A great mix of a player with the skill to gain yards consistently mixed with a big play guy. It seemed obvvious that this was the goal in the off season, but it’s showing up in the numbers.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
Crow
I am eating some crow with this one but after looking at everything, the way we used Charles last game was perfect. He started the game in the back field, he was used when we need large chunks of yards and was used in the passing game and not just screens either. He was used as bait at times. We also have 2 running backs in the TOP 10 in rushing yards this year. That means we have two backs that would be leading rushers for 23 teams in the NFL. Now that is amazing.
Offical member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
by mysonmylife on Sep 28, 2010 2:20 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Thomas Jones is not 2.7
He’s not going out there, taking the handoff, running into a lineman’s butt and falling down. The guy had almost the same amount of yards as Charles, and a TD to boot (yes, on more carries, whatever. He’s a player, and a daggone good RB. He’s a different style of runner than JC, sure, and maybe not quite as electrifying, but he hits that line hard and fast, and mosre ofthen than not breaks through for at least a couple yards where there was none. I won’t say twilight, but the guy is definitely in the afternoon of his career, so let him run his legs off to help keep JC fresh. This two-headed beast they’ve created is absolutely scary.
Does anyone really,honestly t if we got rid of Thomas Jones that JC would continue to be able to run around like he does?
by DanielH123 on Sep 28, 2010 2:23 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Yes I do think he could run around like he does a good example of why I believe so is last year he was running wild with an offensive line that was mediocre at best, with that said I do like having jones because he is another person that teams have to gameplan for taking some focus off of Charles which is a big reason (I think) that J C is averaging 7 yards per carry
by chief_ferg on Sep 28, 2010 3:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
This isn't the first time
a two rb system has been used. a power back like Jones does more than gain yards, he chews up a defense. He accelerates them wearing down sooner.
The power back is usually the primary back because of that. They also get the ball when you need that one yard for a first or a plow at the the 1 yard line for a td.
you bring the speed rb guy in to take advantage of the wore out defense. to capitalize on mid field stretches and to frustrate and demoralize a defense. When they have an rb that can almost routinely put up 10 to 40 yards on them at will, that messes with them bad.
I agree that Haley and Weiss are doing things excellently in managing the running game and the running back situation.
Big Bear
No complaints, here. If KC were struggling with Jones in there, it'd be another matter.
But the fact is Jones is about as productive as the line lets him be.
I also think he’s a very reliable and sturdy back to use while KC probes the opposing defense. Part of Jamaal’s success is because Jones is setting him up for success.
On those early runs that do NOT work, I’m more comfortable with Jones, because of ball security and physical security. A lot of those going-nowhere runs, Jamaal would likely try to make something out of nothing, get stood up, and be a fumble/injury risk.
I’m just tickled that Jones, Charles and McCluster are all three very very good and the FB crew is very very good. Our run-blocking is about as good as it gets in this league, and the play-fake is finally giving Cassel some time to look down the field.
"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"
+1 on injury risk.
Charles whole game is bulit around speed and his ability to cut on a dime. Im not saying he’s going to blow his knee out and be done for the season, but if he tweaks his knee or ankle this really hampers his strengths. Keeping both if them fresh is going to be huge down the strecth if we want to make some kind of playoff run.
Run D is the key this year.
by cwebb44 on Sep 28, 2010 3:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's not the cuts that worry me so much as some of those early garbage runs into the teeth of the d-line.
Jones stays low and falls forward. Charles is prone to being stood up. Want to get him into space, and need to set up the defense to accomplish that. Get some intel from Jones’s early runs, to see how the OL-vs-DL thing is working and where the mismatches are.
That being said, I’m not against using Jones later on, once the intel is gathered. He’s perfectly capable of busting off a nice run, himself.
"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"
Who cares if Charles isn't getting the carries he should be getting
we’re 3-0. Anyone who has a problem with it is probably more pissed about his fantasy numbers being down then the team itself
Agreed
The only people that should even be mad are the fantasy owners I like having a veteran like jones who can find the holes and get the tough yards for example the fourth down conversion against the browns
by chief_ferg on Sep 28, 2010 3:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Disagree. MANY times I watched Marty drawing the wrong conclusions and failing to learn anything from victories.
If you DON’T question yourself after victories, you’re just setting yourself up for playoff defeat, when you meet teams that are fundamentally sound. You can rack up a great regular season record, and still have fundamental weaknesses that need addressing, for instance, believing that Bono/Grbac gave KC a better chance of victory than Gannon, when anybody who really knew football knew that Gannon was the better QB.
My jury’s still out on Haley ‘n’ company, but the early indications are pretty good that they’re constantly learning, week to week, and they don’t kid themselves about where they’re at, just because they’re 3-0.
"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"
I do believe that they deserve alot of credit, i mean who saw us starting at 3-0? I bleed as red as any of us chiefs fans but I can honestly say that I am pleasantly surprised with how we started off. Especially the D!
by chief_ferg on Sep 29, 2010 5:29 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I do believe that they deserve alot of credit, i mean who saw us starting at 3-0? I bleed as red as any of us chiefs fans but I can honestly say that I am pleasantly surprised with how we started off. Especially the D!
by chief_ferg on Sep 29, 2010 5:29 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
and his fantasy numbers arent bad
Im in a point per reception league.. and though they could be better there above average numbers, and consistent too.
Lets go chiefs! 2-0 after sunday afternoon!
by Chieffan_Toby on Sep 28, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop criticizing!
Whatever todd Haley and Charlie Wiess are doing is obviously working and I say if its not broke don’t fix it
by chief_ferg on Sep 28, 2010 3:30 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Were doing it right....
All of the teams that have high scoring, dominant offenses spread the ball around. Partly because they HAVE alot of offensive weapons ( that sounds like us) and partly because it does keep the opposing defense guessing. Both of those “parts” are going to help us win alot of games, get into the playoffs, and win some Super bowls for alot of years to come. Thats really what we want right? Oh yeah, the swarming defense and electrifying special teams are pretty cool too!!!
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