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Arguing with Idiots (A retrospective edition)

Well, many of you know what these are all about by now.  But this edition of "Arguing with Idiots" is going to be just a little bit different.  I'll lay out a new scenario for you, and one that I think you'll enjoy.

You've woken up on a BEAUTIFUL Monday morning.  Your Kansas City Chiefs just demolished a San Francisco team that was supposed to be our first real test (you know, without the rain or the fact that the Browns are a bad team coming into the equation).  I mean seriously dominated every phase of the game.  It wasn't even as close as the 31-10 score indicated.  You are, naturally, in a fantastic mood.

You're walking down the street towards your favorite breakfast location, thinking that a few eggs, some bacon, and maybe a couple of slices of french toast are in order for a little "victory breakfast".  Life.  Is.  Good.

And then you see something that makes life get even better.  One of your buddies is walking into the restaurant that you're about to enter, all alone.  And not just any buddy either, but "that guy".

Who is "that guy"?  Well, as you can probably guess from the title of my post, he's our Idiot.  Sure, he's a nice enough guy, and he's a DEVOTED fan of (insert random football team not from KC here).  But he doesn't really know squat about the Chiefs.  That's no problem, in and of itself.  The problem is that he's always thought that he knows everything about every team, including our own.

You argued with him for hours on more than one occasion before the season began, and he hit you with all the classics: Glenn Dorsey's a bust, our new coordinators won't make a difference, Albert's a guard, T-Jax is awful, Weigmann's too old to help our line, Lilja's a terrible player.... And those aren't even the fights you got into with him while you watched our LAUGHABLE (according to him) draft.

Well, now, here's your chance to make him (as upamtn so eloquently put it) eat some crow.  You walk up to him and invite him to sit with you while you eat.  What he doesn't know is that you're going to take this chance to rub some of his more idiotic arguments right in his face.  Arguments like...

Star-divide

Idiot Argument #1:  "That was honest-to-God the most pathetic draft I've ever seen!  Seriously,  Dexter McCluster?  Javier Arenas?  Tony Moeaki?  Wow, Pioli's in over his head"

Now's your chance to remind him of that statement he made while watching the draft with you.  Really make sure you emphasize a few things here. 

First, Dex has basically won one game for us with a punt return and set off the fireworks of momentum in another.  Yeah, pretty sure if we could have that pick back, we'd do the exact same thing.  The argument could be made that without him we'd have at least one loss.

Second, Arenas has been great in the return game, but even more important has played some great nickel CB.  A position we were desperately lacking production at.  A reach?  Maybe.  Ask him what his 2nd rounder is doing.  Because all ours is doing is making big contributions to the #2 defense in the NFL and providing at least one great return a game.  I think we'll take it.

And Moeaki?  Well, I think this ought to shut him up.  What's that, one play doesn't make a player?  Good point!  How about being our team leader in receptions, yards, and receiving TD's?  That work for you?  In an offense where passing has been scarce, he's looked very good.  I think MAYBE he was worth a 3rd rounder.

When you throw in Lewis earning a starting job and playing WAY above expectations, an argument could be made that our most "rookie" rookie has been Eric Berry, who made a few crucial mistakes in our first two games.  And let's be clear; Berry is a monster against the run.  We all thought he'd be a Polamalu/Reed type, but so far he's looked a lot more like a faster Bob Sanders.  And he looked more consistent against the pass against SF.  Watch out, he may have already learned to harness that aggression and not bite on fakes.  Which would make him that much better.

So thank your friend for his input on our draft, and kindly ask him if he'd switch with us if the option was there.  If he says no, the man is either lying to you or an idiot (or maybe a Rams fan, since Bradford looks legit).

Idiot Argument #2:  "Seriously, stop talking about your new coordinators!  How many times do I have to tell you this; players play and coaches coach!  Crennel and Weis aren't going to be able to polish the turd that is Kansas City!"

Remind him of this in a subtle, mature way.  Like grabbing him by the face and screaming, "Our defense is allowing 14 fewer points per game so far!  Admit you're a moron and I'll let go!"

OK, maybe that's not the answer.  But this should be a particularly fun argument to look back on and destroy.  Let's look at the stats.

Our defense is 2nd in the league in points allowed.  We're 6th in the league in sacks.  we're ranked 6th at stopping the run.  These are all areas of vast improvement with largely the exact same "horrible" front 7.  Yeah it's only three games.  But three games in which our defense has been borderline dominant.

Our offense?  Well, there's work to be done, sure.  But an easy argument could be made that we didn't see much of the playbook until Sunday.  And the results... well, 457 total yards of offense, with an INCREDIBLE balance of 207 yards rushing and 250 yards passing.  And this against a 49ers defense that up until Sunday was considered one of the absolute best defenses in the NFL, especially against the run.  Work to be done?  Yes.  But can we see a difference?  Uh, yeah, seeing as how we're the best rushing team in the NFL.

Idiot Argument #3:  "I wish you'd just realize that Casey Weigmann and Ryan Lilja will make ZERO impact on your offensive line!  Weigmann's too old, and Lilja's a pansy!  That's why they both got cut!"

Again, this is a very, very fun argument to throw in someone's face after 3 games.

 First of all, it was a stupid argument to begin with.  Weigmann and Lilja both got cut because their respective teams (who are currently ranked 30th and 25th in rushing, thanks for asking) decided that they'd be better off switching to a power blocking scheme.  That doesn't fit these guys, so they got cut.

Weigmann's been a big upgrade over Rudy (no disrespect Rudy).  He hasn't been an All Pro, but he's been holding his own.  And do you think it's a coincidence that Waters looks more like his old self playing next to Weigmann?  

As far as Lilja goes, he's been very solid.  Good pass blocker, more than adequate run blocker.  A big upgrade over what we had last year.  

Give your buddy a big smile as you tell him that our "terrible, washed up, pansy signings" are starting on an O-line that is leading the way for the #1 rushing attack in the NFL, and has given up TWO sacks this year.  Two.  I'll say that one more time for you in case you weren't listening.  Two sacks.  Which has us tied for 2nd fewest in the league.

But yeah, good talk about FA O-linemen :)

 

Listen folks, three games are just that; three games.  We don't know how things will turn out from here, and maybe one day I'll look at this post and think, "yikes, a little premature".  I KNOW things may get worse from here on out, and that we have a long ways to go.  Three games are just a start, we need to keep it up if we want to be considered any kind of playoff contender (starting with at least hanging with the Colts)

But I can tell you this; I've been desperate for the season to start so I could remind my football (but not Chiefs) loving buddies of all the things they said before the season about our draft, our coordinators, and some of our FA's (of course, I was afraid that they were right, but that's neither here nor there at this point, right?).  And this season has given me everything I've wanted to argue with those guys.  Because three weeks in, they all look like... well, idiots.

Now find that buddy/idiot and give him a serving of that crow.  Let him put some sauce on it, though.  After all, you're friends, right?

 

*****disclaimer***** 

Do not make your friend actually eat a crow.  Seriously, birds are filthy, man.  What's wrong with you?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 35 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Haha I believe it

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

(doing best AOL computer voice)

you’ve got mail!

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Sep 27, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

In a parity drive league with revenue sharing and a salary cap, coaching makes all the difference in the world.

Every team has talented players. It takes good coaching to win in the NFL.

Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.

by Rev. Slappy on Sep 27, 2010 2:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Very true

SF was probably the more talented team on Sunday… but they got outcoached and outworked.

And you saw how that turned out…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm an ex-coach so I'm probably biased, but I don't think many people realize how vital coaching is in the NFL.

I’d take the less talented well coached team over the highly talented badly prepared team any day.

Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.

by Rev. Slappy on Sep 27, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Especially in football

It seems like in basketball talent alone can carry the day at times. That can sometimes be the case in baseball as well (as in a phenomenal pitcher, or a 2-3-4 lineup that’s batting .350).

But in football coaching seems to make a bigger difference.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I live in LA, and I gotta say there's something to what Phil Jackson is selling.

There’s no question the Lakers are a well coached outfit. In Boston, Doc Rivers has gotten his players to believe in the good of the team over their individual egos. And the LeBron-led Cavs get upset in the playoffs every year.

I would say that in its current state, MLB is probably the sport that least relies on coaching, at least as far as the big payroll teams are concerned. Teams like the Royals will have to do an exceptional job of player development in order to ever stand a chance of competing. And they are horrible at player development.

Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.

by Rev. Slappy on Sep 27, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I get that

What I meant is that in the NBA, a merely talented team can get to the conference finals or a round into the playoffs.

That’s rarely the case in the NFL.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice read

Hey...How'd everyone get in my room?

by SFLChief on Sep 27, 2010 2:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks SFL

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Professional idiots

Arm chair QBs are one thing but professional sports writers is another. How about those writers leading up to this week calling the Chiefs a “fluke”? I don’t think a professional sports writer is supposed to be that much “off” in his/her profession. Kind of like calling for Jeff George to be the new KC quarterback. I have to admit, the people who post on here know more about the Chiefs than the writers for Yahoo, Cbssportsline, Fox, etc. So if any of you “professional” sports writers out there need to know anything about the Chiefs, let us know, we’ll fill you in. Now go out there and do your own f@#%ing job.

by quickwit on Sep 27, 2010 2:17 PM CDT reply actions  

I totally agree

There’s so much piggybacking in the national media. One guy will say something that’s an opinion, and all of a sudden every other major sports network is parroting it.

Pathetic.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

^^^^THIS^^^^ So many 'experts' are too lazy to do their own research. Rec'd

"spend all your time on Xs and Os and Jimmys and Joes" -- Charlie Weis

by rwalke10 on Sep 27, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nah :), I just like to poke fun at my Vikings fan friends (because that's all I've got up here)

They’re ok, actually, they just thought that they knew what was up with our team.

I keep telling them I’m always right, but you know how it is, they never listen! :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Story of my life!

I tell the truth…even when I lie

What's the difference between jelly and jam?

by WestonK on Sep 27, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

damnit, MN! arguing with idiots? hell, we haven't argued in DAYS ... and Waters, ha! that guy is so old, his best days are long gone, and Albert has NO business at LT and ...

what? first in rushing, you say? damnit, MN, leggo my face!!! btw, crow is DELICIOUS! I may just make it a steady diet for awhile …

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd wreck’d

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Sep 27, 2010 2:44 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks ups. Hilarious reply

Yeah, there were about a billion other things I could’ve put in there, but hey, a post can only be so long, right?

I mean, when there’s about a BILLION things I could point out that outsiders predicted would go wrong for us that have gone right, you gotta pick and choose.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

The biggest idiots ever...

the ones on NFL.com They will argue about anything and everything without actually having any football knowledge.

Jamaal Charles...Enough said.

by Chiefsfan85 on Sep 27, 2010 2:51 PM CDT reply actions  

Nice read, MN, but.....

haven’t you heard the old saying, “Never argue with an idiot – they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!”???

another dopeless hope fiend

by hebegb on Sep 27, 2010 2:58 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Haha rec'd

Great expression.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know you and me personally have talked to some of those "idiots" first hand, MN

And those were fellow Chiefs fans, unfortunately. I’ve went back to the ole Chiefs Draft Board every now and again just to see what the usual suspects are saying, although I haven’t posted on there in a while.

Good stuff, MN. Red

"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter

by FalconMF27 on Sep 27, 2010 3:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks Falcon

I think that draft board is actually shut down right now.

I went there after the Chargers game to rub it in Jim’s face that our “ridiculous” picks had basically won the game for us… and it was nowhere to be found. Very sad.

I’m hoping Jim’s around when it comes up again, because he predicted a 4 win season, 5 at most. I’d like to see if he’d admit that he was wrong.

Although he’s hardly an idiot, he actually made all of the arguments I put on this post…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's still there

When you go into the main NFL draft page, go down and click on the “2010 Draft” and go into that, and it’s the same format with the “Draft Conversations” in the same place. It takes a lot more effort to get there, so I just have the page saved. But it’s still there, with the same main people making the same arguments.

"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter

by FalconMF27 on Sep 27, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

haha awesome!

Thanks Falcon!

I doubt I’ll got there much (I love this site), but that’s good to know…

It’s just better when there’s hundreds of people to talk to, and you’re not butting heads over the same issue with the same guy over and over and over…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice read, rec'd and no need to worry man.

You can feel that this team is starting to take off. What we just saw yesterday afternoon was an indicator of how far the Chiefs have come as a team. Sure, it’s only 3 games… but it’s 3 games that is starting to show a trend. All that first round talent through the years is starting to click and pay big dividends. And this is a team that can stay hungry… they’re going to be ready for the Colts. They’re thinking they can win right now, but they KNOW it won’t be easy… it is the AFC champs after all. Haley’s going to keep them grounded and focused.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 27, 2010 3:57 PM CDT reply actions  

I think so too

This is the time it’s great to have a coach like Haley that’s never satisfied.

I hope that with the extra week Crennel can get us ready for Peyton (as ready as a team can ever be, anyways).

I think that you’re right about yesterday. It WAS a great performance and showed how far we’ve come. I was especially excited by the way the offense performed against a very good SF defense. It was very encouraging.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Liked the first Idiot's guide much better

But that was because it was actually probable that people would think like that regarding KC.

Now? (crickets chirping)

Or they resort to the old standby: “Just wait til you play somebody.” Thing is, after Indy and Houston, we really don’t. We’re going to be the team that "lucked out on the schedule. You know that’s coming next. Probably a beat down in the playoffs. I’ll take that. So would your idiot friends.

Good post.

by Ozarks on Sep 27, 2010 4:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks

This was more for a past argument (hence the “retrospective”).

You know, you got into that argument a month or two ago, and now you get the chance to make him eat a little crow… Always a fun thing to do as a fan!

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

uh huh ... STILL picking on me, aren't ya? I see how it is with you APers ...

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Sep 27, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Come on...

We don’t have enough talent to keep winning…I’ll eat crow every week if that is what it takes.

by 12t on Sep 27, 2010 5:16 PM CDT reply actions  

MN I think the biggest idiots is Walter football

They just seem to not take the chiefs as a contender when we all know walter football is a joke .

CHIEFS fan 4 life

by Charles # 1 chiefs fan on Sep 27, 2010 5:35 PM CDT reply actions  

In his review of the SF game

He actually said a few positive things about us!

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Sep 27, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very well written. I approve.

When arguing with idiots it is always more successful and wise to to say “your argument is stupid, not you” (even if they are). So the line you take when arguing with idiots is well thought out.

One of the founding members of The Super Duper Matt Cassel Fanclub
Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!
We all have the right to our own opinions, its just that mine are right.

by nateforchiefs on Sep 27, 2010 7:06 PM CDT reply actions  

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