Our Fickle Fans
by Chiefphish on Sep 22, 2010 2:48 PM CDT
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Why is it that expectations, while meaningless, create such havoc? Everyone has them, but very rarely do they mimic the real result. Yet for some reason, our society and possibly, human race, are obsessed with them. We predict Super Bowl winners the day after the NFL draft, project playoff contenders in June, and MVP's in week one. Why even play the season?
Is it because we are impatient?
Probably.
Is it because Michael Lombardi or Chris Mortensen brought his 2010 sports almanac with him when he got back from the future?
Could be. Probably not though.
Is it because we like to go back and compare our expectations with the outcome?
I wish.
I think its because we like to hear ourselves talk and argue. They give us a standard to compare to. But for some reason, we rarely go back and look at how the expecations compared to what actually happened.
Let's think back to the last NFL season. Week 7 was beginning. The Kanas City Chiefs were 1-5. With the tough opening schedule we had, nobody was that surprised. We expected to have a bad record.
The Denver Broncos were 6-0.
Wait, stop the bus.
They weren't supposed to be any good.
As a Chiefs fan, I didn't care that the Chiefs were 1-5, because I knew the playoffs were a pipedream before the season even started. But my only saving grace was that the Broncos were going to be just as bad. This made their 6-0 start hurt even more.
Enter the 2-8 finish with a Chiefs beatdown-cherry on top.
We all pointed and laughed and said "Haa, haa" in a Nelson voice from the Simpsons.
"I knew it was a fluke" we said. "Josh McDaniels is so dumb. He blew his load in the first 6 games and had nothing for the last 10. What an idiot."
Now lets fast forward to 2010. Week 3 was beginning. The Chiefs were 2-0.
Jamaal Charles already had surpassed his 2009 rushing totals in 2 weeks with 1400 yards and 72 touchdowns against the Chargers and Browns. Even with us averaging 700 rushing yards per game, though, we were lucky to squeek out the 2 wins because our front 7 was so atrocious that we were allowing 900 rushing yards per game.
If Pioli had just listened to us and drafted that nose tackle in round 2 instead of that horrible Dexter McCluster, we would look a whole lot better.
Luckily Eric Berry's 113 interceptions against Philip Rivers, and the punt return for a touchdown by Dantrell Savage saved the game.
Now obviously this isn't even close to the truth. But, if you had read Arrowhead Pride before the season started, this is probably what most people expected (using hyperbole to demonstrate the adamancy of the expectations of course).
Enter reality.
Our front 7 is quite stout with a top ten rush defense (what????).
Eric Berry is a rookie, making rookie mistakes, albeit one showing lots of potential. I saw him touch something and it didn't turn to gold like I expected. But, I am convinced his shoulder pads are filled with lead. Alien lead though. You know, the kind that packs a punc,h but doesn't weigh you down and make you slower. Yea. That kind.
Our rushing offense is top 5... with Jamaal Charles getting less than half the carries.
The Chiefs are 2 - 0.
I think that if I had told 100 fans this before the season started, 95 would have laughed in my face and slapped me with a homer tag. Is that Kool-aid dripping down your chin? Most of them would have been ecstatic with this outcome though.
So why is it that I could swear we were 0 - 2? Maybe its because all I hear is complaining from Chiefs fans, and radio personalities. Matt Cassel sucks. Todd Haley is an idiot. Charlie Weis is clueless.
Last time I checked my John Maddenisms handbook, it said that the team that scores the most points is going to win the game. Even good ole' Herm knew that you play to win the game, not get Charles the most fantasy points.
I for one am glad that Haley isn't Josh McDanielsing his playbook all over the first six weeks of the season.
The Chiefs are now a gameplan team. Weis, Crennel, Haley, and Pioli have been saying this for months. We might be a ground and pound team one week, and airing it out the next. Depends on the strengths and weaknesses of our opponent. This makes me happy.
Why throw all over the field when we can pound Thomas Jones up the middle all game and win? Makes sense to me. Its obvious to me that the Chiefs recognized that running up the middle of Cleveland's defense was more effective than going outside.
Dexter McCluster (1 touch for 3 yards) and Jamaal Charles (2.9 yds per carry between the tackles) weren't apart of that gameplan in Cleveland. I have a sinking suspicion they will be against San Francisco.
Our impatience is becoming annoying. It was just 3 weeks ago that Tyson Jackson was lazy and a huge bust. Now we are worried because he might not play this week. Really?? The same can be said for Dorsey and Carr. Lets wait and see what the season has in store before passing judgment.
Now that we have San Fran gameplanning to stop Thomas Jones up the middle, they won't be expecting Charles flying around the edge, or McCluster bursting out of the flat.
Because, thats what they won't be expecting.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I like it.
The negativity in many of the posts right now bugs the crap out of me. This one makes good points while not going the homer route. I hope you’re right, and look forward to seeing it happen.
I do wish the offense was a bit more effective nonetheless though.
Ha!
Thanks. Now, that is the definition of fickle.
CPA rocks the sarcasm font :)
Don’t take it too personally…
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Sep 23, 2010 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Let's take the wins :)
because we will only win 1 or 2 more as most experts are predicting
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
Very good read
I think that’s my biggest thing as well. Can we give things a little time to see how they develope? Whose to say that by the end of the year Charles and Jones won’t be close in carries? Let’s see how Cassel does when we’re behind and throwing the ball becomes the game plan. I said this in another post, but I’m scared to death about what AP will be like if we lose to SF, then a bye week, then two road games at Hou and Indy. That will be four VERY long weeks here at AP.
"There is no charge for awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda
by KCporkchop on Sep 22, 2010 3:25 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
i solved that problem for myself with a possible neg train coming...
I’ll only read from the credible contributors on AP and read less comments. I just simply come here for the news. The JC/TJ, “Casshole”, and even the “They give us no love!” comments/threads are becoming extremely annoying after only Week 2. I’m following the team and not the fans.
Other Arenas wish they could be like Arrowhead Stadium and when rivals think they are going to be fine on an island of Flowers, they will get hit by what feels like a Carr. Ultimately, they will never be able to eat a Berry ever again.
by worc on Sep 22, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 14 recs
Rec'd
I agree. Well said.
It is fun to see what the mob is thinking though, even if I don’t always agree.
Rec on the post and rec on the comment
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
So how do you know who the '"credible contributors" are?
You must teach me. I also am fed up with the bitching about 2-0. Make sense? Bitching about 2-0? I don’t know if it’s the fantasy team owners that are so upset or what. Makes no sense. The Chiefs are playing better than they have in 4 years and people are mad? This is the very reason I only made it 2 weeks over at KC Star. Constant complaining. If the Chiefs don’t win another game, I will still attend every game. I just can’t imagine doing anything different.
So how do you know who the ’"credible contributors" are?
Simple rule of thumb…Are they Canadian?
If “yes”, then you have a credible contributor.
All joking aside, no one is bitching about 2-0. Nobody. I haven’t heard a single person say a single bad thing about the defense or special teams…why? Because they are carrying the team. People are crritical of the 30th ranked offense, and there is nothing wrong with that. I’ve said this numerous times before, being critical of a team and being a fan don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
by craig in calgary on Sep 22, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Seriously
y do they always put words in our mouth? I know I’m sure not bitching about 2-0…I’m fricking giddy. Haven’t been this excited for Sundays in a long time. Hell, I’m not even saying we should bench Cassel. I like the kid. He deserves the chance to improve.
But when I dare say he isn’t playing well right now it’s “get a rope” time.
Sick of it
by KC_Satchmo on Sep 22, 2010 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
As well you should be
I think the thing that annoys people are the comments that we’re only lucky, or when someone consistently says nothing but negative things. People get fed up, so they then lash out at anyone and everyone that says something that isn’t positive.
Not saying it’s right, but it’s what happens.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Mostly true
but who among us is even saying the Chiefs have been lucky? That’s the national media….
I've seen it around here more than a few times
Of course, it’s partially true. Maybe that’s why it stings so much?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Yah and who cares anyway? Luck is a huge part of any successful season.
The Saints had a lot of luck with 6 turnovers in the NFC Championship game agains Minnesota last year, as they did all year. Things just seem to bounce their way. But teams with heart often create their own luck…GO CHIEFS.
by krayfish on Sep 22, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
whats the saying?
The better I am the luckier I get…
I've heard that
Did you take your name from “The IT Crowd”?
Because that show is hysterical.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
All in the delivery my friend
I bet I’ve said Cassel isn’t playing well 20 times in the last 2 weeks, but overall I stay positive about the team overall.
The Kool Aid man avatar and post about “Awesome” probably help too.
"There is no charge for awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda
by KCporkchop on Sep 22, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Hopefully its not "get a rope time"
like it was for David Carradine.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
Not sure whether to “rec” or “flag” that one…
So I’ll just chuckle to myself and leave it alone :)
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Sep 23, 2010 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Im glad somebody else has a twisted sense of humor.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
It's an issue
we’re not putting nearly enough pressure on the QB. This is not uncommon for Crennel Ds tho. In NE his D’s were often middle of the pack in yards allowed, but top 5 (often top 1) in points allowed.
by KC_Satchmo on Sep 22, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unfortunately
our passing on O is far worse off than our pass D.
Holding out hope it improves before it starts costing us games…
I'd like to see
More of Arenas or Berry on the blitz. They both get into that backfield in the blink of an eye.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I honestly think we haven't seen more blitz
because of the teams we have faced thus far. We needed extra folks to cover Gates…so less blitzing. Seneca Walalce is a running fool….so less blitzing. I expect more of the same this week due to Davis and Smith. I really don’t expect a blita heavy gameplan until Houston.
by KC_Satchmo on Sep 22, 2010 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was looking at some of those stats today
Houston is 32 in passing D (course the played Peyton)
Indy is 32 in Rushing D (course they played Ariens?)
That should be two dramatically different gameplans for the Chiefs
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Good points both
With Smith/Davis though, I think it’d be a little safer to blitz, especially if we’re hitting Davis at the line.
He’s not nearly as strong as Gates, and Smith is about 1/10th the QB that Rivers is.
Get in his face and it won’t matter if Davis is open.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
My only concern with blitzing this week
is that Smith is really a very gifted runner. If I were gameplanning this, I’d want to keep him in the pocket and let him throw picks.
Haha that sounds good to me
Let him throw a Wallace-like toss.
Honest to God that was the worst pass I’ve ever seen. Flowers was so stunned he almost didn’t get it. He just had so much time he was able to recover from the shock.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Worst pass I ever saw
Someone never saw Steve Fuller play for us…
;)
Haha you're right
I’m a relative youngster… He left us 3 years before I was born.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I may come off as negative sometimes...
but this is the only point ive been trying to make for 2 weeks…some just want to overlook it because our record is 2-0.
Defense and special teams is not going to KEEP winning games for us. Our offense has to put more points on the board.Period.
AZ I always like your comments man. I agree so much with you.
Your not negative. Your honest. And your right. Two things that will get you stoned for blasphemy lol
Rec'd
See my comment below. 2001 Pats – 24th ranked D in yards – 6th in points allowed…the stat that matters.
I gave up trying to explain to folks around here
that the stat you look for to rank a D is points allowed…not yards.
A lot of that is contributed to the rookie safeties though...
Remember that 3 of the 4 TDs given up were because of big plays given up by Berry. For the most part, the pass defense has been decent. I think Berry’s problem is a combination of him just being a green rookie, and Crennel using his natural athleticism to play aggressively. We wouldn’t have the 9th rush defense if Berry wasn’t playing up in the box so often.
Hopefully we find a good balance, and soon. Peyton Manning will take advantage of Berry. So will Shaub. I’m really hoping that Berry is a fast learner and eliminates some of the mistakes he’s been responsible for.
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 23, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I've said it before and I'll say it again ....
I am ecstatic to see the defense playing significantly better, and I can’t imagine being upset about sitting at 2-0 after games against two opponents that wiped the field with the Chiefs last year!
That doesn’t change the fact that they have played well-below-par offense through those two games. To match your point about Denver, if this team is going to be this lopsided all season the defense will break down by week 8! It isn’t fair to ask them to shoulder that kind of load, and the offense was completely without creativity in week 1. I couldn’t see the game against Cleveland, but the numbers tell you that Cassel was again far below where he needs to be in his third year of duty (counting his time in NE).
I think you do need to give time for the coaching staff to gel. I know everybody was pretty excited about getting Crennel and Weis (myself included), but turning over an entire staff of coordinators will have adverse effects regardless of who the new guys are. Fortunately, this team has managed to win its first two games while going through these growing pains.
I agree that you shouldn’t pass judgement this early on what this team can be, but it is absolutely fair to criticize what they have been to this point. I’ve already made my admittance about the McCluster and Arenas picks. I believe this is a 6-win team, so they are a third of the way there. Great! They could outdo my expectations there, but that doesn’t mean that winning 7 or 8 will make me giddy if this offense continues to look this bland.
I’ve seen improvement in the defense and the special teams, but this offense looks worse than last year right now. I want to see improvement there, and I still stand by the belief that this team will never take the next step(s) with Cassel at QB. This doesn’t make me fickle, and I’m not the sky-is-falling type, anyway. There are clearly good things going on, and certain parts of the team are clearly on the right track to serious contention.
I’ll be a Chiefs fan for a long time (hopefully), and I am mostly interested in seeing the Lombardi trophy being lofted by them sometime within my lifetime. I believe this team has the opportunity to be serious contenders within 2 to 3 years if they make all the right moves with respect to their weaknesses. I won’t be a Cubs fan, though! I don’t believe in being satisfied with building teams that are built to make the playoffs every once in a while but with one or more glaring holes that will keep the team from reaching the pinnacle of the sport. Right now, the offense is such a glaring hole for this team. I think it is important to not inflate the overall effectiveness of this team based on two wins that were entirely controlled by one side of the ball. I have been, and will continue to be, consistent on this point of view, even when I am wrong about specific acquisitions or strategies.
by etp_stl on Sep 22, 2010 3:58 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Some good points
Lets take a look at the 2001 Patriots (I know this horse is dead, but bear with me)
Tom Brady – 2843 yds passing 18 touchdowns 12 interceptions
In the playoffs…
Game 1 Raiders – Offense – 297 yds passing 68 yds rushing
Final Score 16-13
Game 2 Steelers- 192 yds passing 62 yds rushing
Final Score 24-17
SuperBowl Rams – 134 yds passing 133 yds rushing
Final Score 20-17
That year, Tom Brady averaged 189 passing per game. That was good for 22nd in the league. Total offense they were 19th. Their defense was 6th in points allowed, yet 24th in yards allowed. Sound familiar?
I think in this fantasy football era we are in, people get too caught up in the stats and yds and all that nonsense. In the super bowl against the high flying rams of “Greatest Show on Turf” fame, they had less than 300 yards of total offense. As long as our offense can make game winning drives, whether its a 60 yard drive for a field goal, or 100 yard drive for a touchdown, it doesn’t matter. You play to win the game.
Who knows, maybe Succop is the next Vinatieri. Remember him, had a couple of game winning…ahem… field goals. You play to win the game. Bottom line.
by Chiefphish on Sep 22, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Very good numbers there
I’ve been saying this for some time now. I’m just too lazy to go googleing for the numbers
Case in point right here with Chiefphish. Love it or hate it, its not a dumb rambling reply.
its well thought out and our guy here went and dug up stats and took the time to give a really in depth, heartfelt answer on something he cares about. That is not fickle. That is awesome. That is why I love our fans.
Agreed
That reply is from me. Just thought I would point that out.
I love our fans, and agree they are the best in the country. Thats why this calling for heads with no reasoning is getting annoying.
Yep, I agree, Kray.
I also prefer these types of conversations. I just don’t want it to be identified that criticizing the team for their shortcomings is the same thing as being fickle. Fickle is for those who waiver back and forth. I think it’s easy to become too emotional about the most recent occurrences leading to that kind of swinging. However, this offense has been an issue for years now. I wasn’t sold on Cassel when we got him, and he hasn’t really shown me much to believe he’s nothing more than another Grbac. I hope I’m wrong.
I think those Patriots were obviously an abberation, though.
I don’t disagree with your points that it is possible, but I wouldn’t expect that to be the norm, either. There is also a difference in being 22nd in the league in passing and being 30th. The Chiefs can’t even see 19th in the league in total offense from where they currently sit. They are 30th in total offensive yards and the defense is 9th in yards allowed. That disparity is pretty stark.
I’ll never be one to say that they can’t improve these things. I typically don’t call for firings until it is blatantly obvious that the person is failing to do his/her job effectively. I do think this team has to be more creative offensively to succeed with lesser talent, and the offensive line has got to be solidified. I also believe in the old adage that it takes an offensive line 4-6 weeks of playing in games before they really get in sync. Obviously, we aren’t there yet. We’ll see if they start to gel. If not, then I think it is fair game for their play to be evaluated and criticized.
I agree that you should have something to back up your feelings. I’m not really caught up in the stats, but that was really all I had to work with for the Cleveland game as I live out of the area. I tend to find it disturbing though when I see a QB stat line that consists of 2 INTs and 0 TDs. I also get pretty discouraged when I see that the defense and special teams have as many TDs together as the offense has managed to put up for the season. You have to be able to put the ball in the end zone, especially against bad teams like Cleveland. The ineptitude of the offense in the San Diego game to even get a 1st down came dangerously close to losing them that game.
I’ve seen this play out before with an horrific offense being propped up by a good defense. It wears out the defense early in the season. The Chiefs are going to have to correct this offense or pile up their wins early. Otherwise, it is going to be an awfully disappointing second half of the season.
There are no bad teams
as we learned last year every team has good players that will bite you in the Ass.
Cleveland has strengths and weaknesses as did the Chargers, as do the 49ers.
a Strength to date of the Chiefs (is the coaching to take advantage of those weaknesses)
The rain helped as did the home crowd.
We are not going to WIN every game on talent, but we can steal a few on coaching.
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 23, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
rec
mostly for the maddenism though.
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Without a past, we have no future.
by MarineChiefsFan on Sep 22, 2010 4:10 PM CDT reply actions
rec
I’m new to this site but have been a Chiefs fan since I can remember. First game I ever bought a ticket to was the game where DT set the record for most sacks in a single game against Dave Krieg. That being said, I agree with your post here. I’ve been reading multiple posts here recently and they just irritate me because they’re just negative. You can definately see the “fast food” mentality that our society is in now. If every little aspect isn’t fixed overnight then we have serious issues. At leasts that’s what you would think after reading multiple posts. Give it some time people! New coaches, new schemes and new players, it takes time for everything to gel. I can tell you from experience in playing and coaching that offense takes far longer to develop than defense. While Cassel hasn’t look good there could be a reason. They haven’t opened the playbook up until certain aspects of the offense are working on a consitent basis. You gotta crawl before you can walk. I’m just excited they pulled out these two wins. The past couple of years they would have found a way to lose. So be patient folks. The Colts and Patriots didn’t become one year wonders. It took them a couple of years to develop.
Good post. Fun to read as well here too.
I however, don’t see it as fickle. I think when your team has won 10 games over 3 seasons, fans get exasperated. And when you get that angst, your going to voice it. But that’s okay. We are all fans and if you check the numbers, this site kills every other site for participation on a regular basis.
I think it is because we are so passionate as a fanbase. We love our Chiefs and want what is best. But we are no more fickle than any other fan base. All fans are armchair coaches and GM’s. We all have the answers. And again, thats okay. If it weren’t for that passion, that zeal for our team, we would have the Raiders team site and if you want that go check it out and you’ll understand what makes us so special as a group of fans.
Some fans get mad about points being made with regards to Cassel or Charles, but by and large, you get real good feedback. Guys don’t just tell you your an idiot and move on. When they disagree on here, they go dig up stats and look at games played going all the way back to last year to use as comparison analysis, like you did here in this post.
Sometimes what we think is a negative is what keeps us up. Its what keeps us coming back day after day and debating our Chiefs and what drives us. I don’t see it as fickle at all. I see it as a sign that we are the best fans in the entire NFL. I love our fans. I love the debates on here. Where else can you get 150 comments on a three line fanshot about Charles? Nowhere. Its because we care so much. And that my friend is never something to take for granted. Its something to wear as a badge of honor.
Coming here and listening to passionate debates makes me dam proud to be a part of the Chiefs nation.
I’d throw my hat in with this group of fans right here over any other fans anywhere in any sport, and thats the truth.
by krayfish on Sep 22, 2010 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 11 recs
rec Kray
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Well said Kray
After a lot of losing, fans get tired of being disappointed. So they become very cynical about any so-called positive move by the team.
It’s actually considered an unconscious psychological action known as defensive pessimism, and after the last few years I can’t blame anyone for thinking that way.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Hot Damn
defensive pessimism
I knew there was something Wrong with me :)
Thanks Doc
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, don't thank me
Thank this ridiculous psych minor that’s now drained approximately 1000 hours out of my life.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Yes we do
MN maybe a talk Therapy post :)
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
That's an idea...
I’ll have to give it a little thought and see what I can come up with.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
You could be our therapist....that would be awesome.
You could put up a post each week called “The Doctor Is In”. Give out an email address that you create just for AP and let members email you with different issues that have arisen in their life as a result of being a Chiefs fan. You could answer one question a week. It would be great. Do it do it!!
A mailbag?
Now you’ve got my attention…
I almost don’t have a choice now, do I?
The only thing I’m concerned about is looking pretentious. I’ve seen how quickly people get offended on here at times, and I don’t want people to think that I really view myself as all that smart or educated.
That said, you’ve intrigued me and I think I’m going to have to do some form of that…. I’ve been looking for a weekly “niche”.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
After your time on the IR, I think you're getting back to mid-season form Kray.
Very well said Kray. I think like in so many other areas of this country of ours its the extremes on both ends that drive people crazy. I look forward to a good debate from someone with good arguments to back up their case. It’s the constant complaining for complainings sake about things from some that don’t seem to be enjoying anything Chiefs related that drive me crazy. I’m sure the total “sunshine and rainbows” outlook drives just as many people crazy on the other side. I know I get lumped in that crowd because of the whole “Kool Aid” approach I take, but I honestly try to be realistic about everything (okay maybe not Eric Berry). I know some will laugh at that, but I really do and I appreciate all the well thought arguments people have posted to anything I’ve ever typed.
"There is no charge for awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda
Dammit Porky get Berry's ass in the game
He is not cutting as a 1st round Pick. Geez
He looks and looks into the backfield and all those WR/TE just fly By
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Two returns
must remember. Got it
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I spend 400 dollars a yr..
For NFL Ticket here in Phoenix, so i can watch my Chiefs games and be …fickle.
Im a fan through and through. Ive been a season ticket holder, ive bought merchandise galore over the yrs. I would say in the past 20+ yrs, ive missed maybe 5 games.
My point?..I should be able to critique the team I support without somebody telling me on here that I shouldnt be saying that. I should be able to say I dont agree with the way things are going without someone telling me that I should be happy…..one guy told me the other day…ON A FANSHOT THAT I CREATED…to “just fucking stop”….it ended up with him calling me all kinds of names and stuff…its just not cool guys….Im a grown man, I can say what I want, when I want and how I want…If you dont want to hear it, or see it, then move on. You dont have to make a comment and if you do, then at least carry on the debate with some class and intelligence…
I am thrilled that we are 2-0. I am thrilled that the D looks great this yr…I am thrilled that our return game is going to cause some havoc around the league….but at the same time, and im not scared to say it here either..Cassels play has totally sucked. And I also feel like Jamaal is not being used properly. Even if we are only two games into the season… and I say these things because I am a fan, I notice the good and the bad. I want to see the bad shit get fixed..thats why i bring it up or express my opinion….I dont think that makes me fickle.
A fortune 500 company that is on top of the business world, does not just look at things and say " hey, we are number one, so dont change anything."..They say, “how can we get even better” so we STAY ON TOP!
We have a one game lead in our division. It is my belief, that if the offense does not get fixed, and fast, that lead is gonna be gone just as fast as we got it….Im sure they are working on it, and I hope for the best with Cassel…but right now, he is sucking ass, and I have every right to say, he is sucking ass……
thats the damn truth!
THIS BOI SPEEX TRUTH!
Where do you get off calling anyone fickle?
I have been a season ticket holder longer than most people on this site have been alive. There is nothing fickle about my fandom. I happen to think that Cassel hasn’t played very well so far and am willing to say so. So what? That makes you a better fan than me? Get over yourself.
by KC_Satchmo on Sep 22, 2010 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
getting real sick of this crap
“OMG someone doesn’t agree with me so they aren’t a fan!!”
Fuck that
Where does it say I think I'm a better fan than you?
You kinda lost me on that one.
You don’t think that a fan base starving for wins, finally gets a couple, yet can’t be happy since their favorite player isn’t getting his carries isn’t fickle?
I don’t think Cassel has been a stud either, but he has been getting the job done. All I’m saying is stats don’t matter, wins do. Sorry to have offended you. I’m glad you have continued to support the Chiefs, as do I.
by Chiefphish on Sep 22, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You call folks fickle right in your title
then you go into long detail in the text describing what you consider to be fickle. Criticizing Cassel, playcalling etc. If the implication isn’t that we’re not as good as you, then you’re at a minimum guilty of being extremely condescending.
This isn’t the worst offense of this type I have seen, but it is quite a pattern around here.
Maybe fickle wasn't the best choice of words
I am referring to people quickly changing their minds, not their allegiance to the team. We are all here because we are passionate fans, that is a given. But, ragging Cassel and calling for Brodie Croyle when he is 2 and 0 makes no sense to me. Especially since these same people were saying Croyle isn’t starter material when he was 0-9 two years ago.
by Chiefphish on Sep 22, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
How many people are calling for Brodie?
1? 2? It’s not exactly a common sentiment. Even those of us who are brave enough to say that Cassel isn’t playing very well mostly think we need to give the kid time to grow.
On the bright side, I love Phish
Phish rocks
Flying up to Atlantic City for their Halloween run. Pretty psyched.
Very nice
I’m an old fart…haven’t been to a show since their “last show evah” in Coventry
I'm down to one good run a year
Flew out to Cali for 8 last year. Maybe not the best show (compared to some I say in the mid 90’s) but one of the best experiences. The afternoon all acoustic set with about 2000 fans sitting on the grass was bliss. Mountains in the background, palm trees to my side.
That sounds awful
Phish is awful.
You guys are awful.
by craig in calgary on Sep 22, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Michael Bolton?
Is that your REAL name?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Let's be honest
we both know he listens to Celine Dion, but I didn’t want to call him out on the interwebz.
Oops
+titanic
♫♫♫♫♫Cuz I’m your Laaaaaaaaaaaadeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, and you are my maaaaaaa-aaa-aaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, Whenever you reeeeeeeeeeeeeach for meeeeeeeeeeeee, I’ll do aaaaaaallll that I caaaaaaaa-aaa-aaaaaaaaaaannnn ♫♫♫♫♫
Actually I don’t really like very much Canadian Music other than maybe SNFU
by craig in calgary on Sep 22, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I also forgot about Leonard Cohen
“The Future” and “hallelujah” are good times.
But thats it. Ok maybe sometimes Tegan and Sara when I’m feeling extra lesbianny.
by craig in calgary on Sep 22, 2010 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I've been thinking
the same thing about not reading as many comments as well, for the same reason, for a few days now. Well said.
by ChiefoftheTribe on Sep 22, 2010 4:58 PM CDT reply actions
It prob wouldn't be as bad
if it weren’t the same two topics over and over. I think that’s making it seem worse than it actually is. The comments force me to look at things from a different angle though. Which is why I read them. Of course, as long as they’re on point. Saying “Cassel sucks” adds nothing. But, i’m sure this is a good vent for some folks also.
I get your point...and REC'd
You would think people would just be happy with the progress but yet it’s constant negativity. I totally understand some frustration towards the offense, I have some too, but c’mon. This team is giving it all it has, just shutup and support them.
Matt Verderame
by Flowers24 on Sep 22, 2010 5:04 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
What blog are you reading?
Constant negativity? You can’t criticize ANYTHING on this site without a horde of people jumping down your throat. It’s bad enough you can’t even give a well considered arguement that…ya know…our QB isn’t playing very well without being tarred and feathered, now we have to deal with the “everything is perfect” crowd acting like they’re in the minority?
Puhleeze
Let's call it the "enjoy it while it lasts" crowd
Those people do seem to be in the minority, in that they won’t say anything other than “We’re 2-0, 1st in the division, suck it SD, Oak, and Den”. It doesn’t make them any more or less fans, rational, kool-aid drinkers or realists, it makes them people who are seeing the end result and not the means of getting there, or lackthereof. There’s nothing wrong with that, some will criticize, some will enjoy, and again, those that are simply enjoying ARE the minority on this site. Bottom line
"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter
You're right to an extent
The real majority are folks (including myself) whom I would call cautiously optimistic. The “2-0 is all that matters crowd” certainly outnumbers the “this is all about to fall apart crowd”.
The problem is that if you say ANYTHING critical, you’re beaten to death like you’re HIV…who mostly deserves it.
No he doesn't
But he can take it, Most don’t.
I am in the It won’t last camp and will enjoy it while I can mode.
Football is for enjoyment
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
To an extent I agree with you
But it goes both ways. You also can’t find a positive post on here without at least a few guys inserting a couple of comments about the subject I won’t speak on, or how stupid it is to not give JC more carries, or how everyone needs to stop drinking the Kool-Aid…
It does go both ways here. Some would say you were jumping down Chiefphish’s throat just for using a word you didn’t like.
We’d all be a lot better off if people took this stuff just a tish less seriously and didn’t take stuff so personally. That includes the guys that flip out on someone who criticizes our performance. But it also includes those that jump on a guy for using the word “fickle” in a manner that is clearly exaggerated and humorous.
No disrespect, because I get why you’re frustrated.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I never question anyone's fandom here
The word fickle does exactly that. I would think the one thing we could ALL agree on is that we’re Chiefs fans. There’s a big difference between idsagreeing on the Cassel.JC situations and calling out someone’s dedication to the team. I haven’t seen anyone question the “2-0 is all that matters crowd” on the point of fandom. But say anything remotely critical and you’re not a fan. It happens all the time here.
Sick of it.
I get that. I do
I haven’t seen anyone question the fandom of those who claim that 2-0 is all that matters either.
I HAVE seen their intelligence insulted multiple times though. Is that any better than questioning someone’s fandom?
Seriously, I’m on your side here. I don’t think that people should be calling out each other’s fandom over disagreements like this. But are you sure that’s what was happening in this case?
When he used the word “fickle”, couldn’t he have been referring to peoples’ EXPECTATIONS being fickle, not their fandom?
He replied to you in a very respectful way that would seem to suggest that he’s not trying to call anyone out.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Sep 22, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the crux of the problem
Is that people can’t give a criticism without being horribly negative.
There is a difference. It’s very possible to give a criticism about something and not have it just be a completely negative bitch-fest. And I think that’s the part that has really worn on a lot of AP’ers.
It’s not people having criticisms about parts of the Chiefs not really clicking. I think we can collectively 100% agree on that. (ie: the offense needs to produce much better than it has). But the ranting, raving and juvenile name calling (casshole, for example) grates on the nerves after awhile. A grownup can say they’re not happy with how the passing game is turning out so far, and not look like a spoiled child in the process.
That’s the part, from my experience, that a lot of AP’ers are getting a little tired of.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
by TRSChief on Sep 23, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think its negative. Its concern. And you need that if you care about your team.
Flip it over and look at it from a different viewpoint and you may find it is awesome.
I don't mean to criticize...
but this post was pointless…but I get the point. Well done, I think.
by 12t on Sep 22, 2010 5:32 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Ha
rec
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
nice
rec
"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter
It was presented in an amusing way
And gave us the term “Josh McDanielsing”
Totally worth reading just for that.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Great post, Phish
There is going to be the back and forths, the ups and downs, the “it’s not good enough” attitude after a win, but most people are going to take a “coach’s attitude” and keep looking forward and not let themselves enjoy the win too much. Good attitude to have for a coach, beneficial attitude for the “fickle” fan who doesn’t want to be let down, and would rather say “I told you so” than “what a surprise”.
Rec
"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter
Screw that,
After the last 3 years i enjoy every win like it may be the last.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
It isn't negativity. Its passion people. Even those who were offended by this post are commenting
and thats a good thing. Look, this post already hit the rec board and I disagree with it but I’m here commenting too. I bet you’ll all be on here later tonight and tomorrow again, because it isn’t boring when you have this kind of variant personality base.
If we all came on here like drones and said “Yay, good job Chiefs, everything is perfect….I must take my pill”, we would be the Stepford fans. I say keep on posting about Charles and Cassel and Haley or anyone or anything else Chiefs related. Whether your not feeling good about it or feeling positively giddy about it. We live for this stuff. Thats why we’re here in the first place.
Never discourage anyone from voicing their opinions, good or bad. We need it. Sometimes after I post something that is bothering me about the team, I get so many different viewpoints, that I leave felling much better about things. Its what I need to hear sometimes.
Many times people are just looking for fan reassurance when they vent. They need the troops to rally to their aid. I love it. I love all the opinions. I don’t have to agree with them, I just need them here to keep it alive!
Maybe if your one of those guys that is “sick of all the negativity” you could take a look in the mirror and you might find your just taking it as a negative. Its allllllll good brothers.
uh
variant personality base
What did you call me Kray :)
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I sometimes
have to check in the morning to see. AS if I am feeling bad about something I said.
He will lead us from the Wilderness and then fade away when we are in the Promised Land.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 22, 2010 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with the poster. The complaining is old. But
I do believe that we are all die hard fans. Some are negative, and some are positive. I choose to be positive, but I don’t consider anyone any less of a fan just because all of their posts aren’t positive. Some people are just complainers.
Here's my take / advice (not that anyone wants it)
When you love and obsess over a team as much as most of us do, if you only focus your thoughts on what’s wrong you’ll be miserable. I’m not saying anyone should be in denial about the team. Sitting at home and trying to convince yourself or others that Matt Cassel is awesome is just silly. But who wants a team that we love this much to make us so upset? So don’t ignore what’s wrong, just don’t obsess over it. Try to enjoy the stuff that is going well. Don’t feel guilty about enjoying a win just because the passing game was off or the RB carries didn’t shake out how you wanted. Find a way to enjoy this team that we all love. Otherwise you’ll only be happy when all phases are working and we win a Super Bowl. Those times are very few and far between, especially lately. If you choose to do otherwise, that’s cool, it’s a free country. I still cuss at the TV when something goes bad, but I get over it. If you think I’m just blissfully ignorant, that’s your call. I just know that my outlook leaves me in a good mood.
"There is no charge for awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda
Wow go figure... I agree with you 100% :)
A big part of this lately is that we’re still reeling from being a really bad losing team over the last few years. Many fans are still hanging on to a losing mentality, even though it’s blatantly obvious that the team is moving away from that. The Chiefs are showing that they are a professional group of players that can and will find ways to win ball games. That is good enough for me. It’s sad that so many fans are still waiting for the team to implode and go back to their losing ways. That’s why I really fear that a loss this weekend (and I don’t think we’ll lose though), followed by a bye week will be really, really bad.
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 23, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I love the post.
Found this funny though…
We predict Super Bowl winners the day after the NFL draft, project playoff contenders in June, and MVP’s in week one. Why even play the season?
then….
As a Chiefs fan, I didn’t care that the Chiefs were 1-5, because I knew the playoffs were a pipedream before the season even started.
If you knew the playoffs were a pipedream, then why even play the season?
Rec’d even though I disagree about Cassel. I am done waiting for him to show what he has but he is our best option at the moment.
Proud resident of Kansas City MO
If they negative people do present a well formed argument...
That doesn’t end with an outrageous conclusion then I will always give credit where it is due. I think I am in the cautiously optimistic group and the 49ers game scares the hell out of me, but it is irritating to see complaining without any facts to back it up. And having a good argument but ending it with a ridiculous conclusion is just as bad. If you have a logical well formed argument you don’t need to push the conclusion. The facts will speak for themselves. Keep your passion in check when being critical or it will just seem like namecalling.
The flowers and rainbows group seem like the good guys because the critical posts are much more combative. Everyone appreciates a level head, no matter what your opinion is.
Rec'd
Funny, I was just thinking about this subject, the gameplanning of the Chiefs, while reading the national concensus that Haley and Weiss are idiots for not giving Charles 25 carries a game.
Phish blows. They peaked over a decade ago and should have stayed broken up.
Trey has more of an ego than Pioli and thinks he can play any shit and people will listen.
Politics aside, Obama would of better been served, buying 5 "new" football teams.
I agree completely with this writeup
I couldn’t necessarily direct it towards the people here at AP, though. I come to this blog because the fans here are the most informed and open minded that you can find.
But I would love to repeat this writeup to the know-it-alls that are around this town, and we all know them, that want to call Pioli and Haley stupid because the direction they’re taking doesn’t mesh with the apparent general consensus. It surrounds us every day. You’ve got radio show hosts who bash coaching decisions, callers who spew uneducated hate that goes unchallenged, and columnists looking for a way to fill newspaper space writing articles that suggest that Pioli and Haley could take lessons from them. Seriously, you’d think we were on track to go 0-16 this year.
So I definitely think that this was a post that needed to be written. But I aim it in a different direction.
Chiefs Will
Guilty
We are definitely a bunch of impatient SOB’s, but dammit, I love our fanbase.
by GonzosDirtyTrailer on Sep 24, 2010 8:24 AM CDT reply actions
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