Kansas City Chiefs Aren't Alone With '09 Draft Pick Struggles
We've talked quite a few times about the Kansas City Chiefs 2009 draft class. By the end of last season, we were left thinking that it was a pretty weak class and there were plenty of possible reasons for the lack of production.
Here's one that's becoming increasingly obvious: Maybe it just wasn't a very talent-heavy draft.
NFL draft and all-around football guru Rick Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News noticed some staggering figures on the 2009 draft.
Just 17 regular season games after the 2009 draft, over a third of all the players selected are not on their original team anymore. 85 of the 257 have been waived, traded, retired...all of the above.
For the Chiefs, two are no longer on the team (Colin Brown and Javarris Williams) and one has been waived and re-signed (Quinten Lawrence). Outside of Tyson Jackson and Ryan Succop, the rest of the '09 draft picks weren't considered locks during the recent roster cut down.
The lesson to take out of all this? Even with all the time and man-power put into the scouting process, there's always going to be at least a slight element of a gamble involved.
It's also amazing to see the difference between the '09 and '10 draft classes. By the end of the first half on Monday night, the '10 class has already scored more touchdowns than the '09 class.
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Someone posted this
Or sent it to me via email yesterday and I can’t remember who. H/T to whoever that was.
Hat Tip
Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck.
"Chiefs Will" 3D
Gosselin
is one of the best when it comes to draft evaluations. His mock drafts have a lot of weight compared to other members in the media.
"I can only imagine what it is going to be like in that town if we are fortunate to build a winner. You win there, you can sense that it would be something really special." - Todd Haley
D Wash wasin there at the end last Monday
It’s a good sign that he’s in there at such a critical moment
I'd rather be a failure at something I love than a success at something I hate.
- George Burns
he was not only in there, but in there ON gates with berry, then floating into a zone, super impressed to see the use of his athleticism..like his leaping ability etc inside the 20 against gates
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Also the relatively late hiring cycle didn't help we'd say
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Sep 15, 2010 9:04 PM CDT reply actions
I've heard that before, but....
He was hired like a week after the season ended. And it’s not like he wasn’t looking at similar players for the Patriots before that.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 15, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Similar players, perhaps, but I would assume he would be scouting for different needs.
Assuming, of course, that the needs of a team coming off an 11-5 season and 4 recent Super Bowl appearances are different than those of a team that is coming off a 2-14 season and that hasn’t been to the Super Bowl in over 30 years.
In addition to that, as you pointed out, Pioli was hired by the Chiefs early in the preseason. So while he certainly had his scouts in place during the regular season at New England, he was also dealing, at the time, with the day-to-day issues of the season, which, considering that they were dealing with the loss of the their first ballot hall of fame quarterback, was possibly a bit more eventful than usual. But when the off-season rolled around and it was time to focus more heavily on prepping for the draft, Pioli went through all of the important off-season scouting events (the Senior Bowl, the Combine, etc.) with Carl Peterson’s leftover guys.
Now this certainly isn’t a problem that would be unique to Scott Pioli, as just about any new GM would have these issues (though they might inherit better personnel, depending on the situation), but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a factor.
Now add in some of the extra factors: the strength of the 2009 draft class as a whole (sub-par), the fact that we didn’t have a second round pick (traded to the Pats for 2 starters), and where our picks stand in relation to other draft classes (we seem to be right around the league average in terms of retention of 09 picks). Finally, factor in the truism that everyone throws around but always completely ignores about the fact that it takes 5 years to truly be able to judge a draft.
Going on to previously ignore my last paragraph’s advice, let’s now look at our 2009 draft class:
We got Tyson Jackson with our round 1 pick – a starter who admittedly looked iffy in his rookie season but seemed to be showing real improvement in week 1 of his second year before getting injured. The jury is still out on him. Pick 2 was traded to New England for Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel. It’s up to the individual, I suppose, to decide whether to include them in the draft, but we did get two starters out of the pick. Alex Magee and Donald Washington are admittedly underachievers to this point, but still have time to get on track. I don’t know if that’ll ever happen. But someone like Washington making a huge jump between year 2 and year 3 certainly isn’t unheard of. Colin Brown and Quinton Lawrence have both been cut (Lawrence several times) and are unlikely to pan out. Pioli hit a home run in the 7th with Ryan Succop, and secured another starter out of the UDFA pool in Jovan Belcher.
My point is this – it’s too soon to condemn Pioli for the draft, in part because there were several extenuating circumstances surrounding it, and in part because it’s too soon to judge. But if Tyson Jackson, Ryan Succop, and Jovan Belcher turn into quality starters (not to mention Matt Cassel, as well as Mike Vrabel, who is busy turning Andy Studebaker into a quality starter), and if either Donald Washington or Alex Magee develops into quality depth, I’m not sure how bad Pioli’s 09 draft really looks.
Wow, that was way too long.
TL;DR – I think Pioli does have an at least somewhat valid excuse for having a less than amazing 2009 draft, and I’m not yet convinced it was really all that bad to begin with.
I just realized I totally forgot about Jake O'Connel.
Lump him in with Magee and Washington in the, “hasn’t done it yet but still has a chance,” group. Except he was a 7th rounder so he’s got even fewer expectations to live up too.
'09 Pac10 draftees are looking sharp...
Conference of Champions
/just sayin
Politics aside, Obama would of better been served, buying 5 "new" football teams.
Yep
Especially Sanchez
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 15, 2010 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I think this draft was particularly deep with talent
while last years was particularly low on talent. I think we’ve just seen two different ends of the draft spectrum. I still have high hopes for Tyson Jackson. He looked very solid on Monday. Him and Dorsey look to be the anchors of our d-line of the future. I hope this injury doesn’t hurt his future production
Can we be the AFC West Champions in 2010. You better believe it
The Chiefs offence will EXPLODE in 2010
agreed
he seemed to be around the ball almost everytime Rivers threw it.
The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.
And they liked Washington enough
to have him in the dime package on the final two plays of the game.
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
if we can get our role players
like Washington, Arenas, Lewis, and the special teams unit to keep it up this is going to be a good thing. Lots of these guys before I thought were just fodder, but when we would kick the ball off I would always see Reshard Langford making hits, Cory Greenwood had a good preseason and should get some looks its going to go a long long ways to helping this squad out.
The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.
I think you could also say...
that this is partially because of how strong this years draft class is. So it could be a combination of both. So if last years class was weak and this years class is strong (or even very strong). You are gonna wind up with UDFA’s who are better than last years 6th and 7th rounders.
broken sun clocks a dog's ass every twice and again --- Crooow
Our 2009 Draft is Better than people think
Tyson Jackson was playing lights out last night, before his injury. He is getting it, and appears to be becoming exactly what he was drafted to be.
Magee played very well in the last meaningless game, and because of T-Jax’s injury, will likely get a chance to show if it was real or not.
Donald Washington was the most improved player in camp, is huge on specials, and was playing at the end last night in a key situation. He’s at least living up to his 4th round status already.
O’Connel might have been the 2nd most improved player in camp, and will likely improve on his 7th round status
Succop was the best value pick in the entire draft.
If we can get 4 or 5 long term contributors out of that draft, it’ll go down as at least a B.
and.... don't forget Cassel and Vrabel :)
this should be the most exciting Chiefs team in years! Most major needs filled with playmakers, and the league's best coaching staff... 10-6 a possibility?
Well, then the '10 class will be the beginning of our return to relevancy
OFFTOPIC: With Baldinger, Sharpe, and Theisman picking us to win Sunday’s game, if we lose to the Browns, is that an upset? O_o?
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
Heh
The Browns are favored, by as many as 2.5 points, even though a lot of Chiefs fans here seem to assume this is going to be an easy win.
I hope not.
This is no easy win whatsoever. We could very much lose this game.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
by NJChieffan16 on Sep 15, 2010 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
This game being a trap game especially concerns me, and I think that’s probably factored into the Vegas odds. Although I’m drinking the sugar-free Kool-Aid, I wouldn’t consider a game against anyone in the league a sure thing. We’re still a young, building team, however ascending, and there are going to be ups and downs.
Wow. We're actually getting some love from the analysts?
It’s not very often those guys picked the Chiefs to win.
by SupremeChief on Sep 16, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I give us a 5% chance at victory...
If Cassel falls flat on his face again like he did Monday night. Dex can’t save the day every week.
RUN DEXTER RUN!!!!
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Sep 15, 2010 11:21 PM CDT reply actions
was meant as a reply. sorry.
RUN DEXTER RUN!!!!
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Sep 15, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow.
So you’re saying if KC played the Browns 20 times, you think KC would only win once?
My four-word 2011 mock draft - Mark. Freaking. Herzlich. BAM!
If Cassel only gets 68 yards against the browns
I don’t give us much chance of winning either.
"The dirtier the sound the best I breathe, I tried to do it all for you and you didn't do anything for me"
huh?
There’s no reason to think that will happen. What in cassel’s history suggests that Monday was a typical or even once in a while performance? Haley said that the gameplan with the rain and wind was as conservative as you’ll ever see him call a game. Cassel managed the game well didn’t take any big risks, and didn’t turn the ball over, you can’t ask for much more in a game like that. Rivers had to throw the ball and nearly threw three picks. I expect under normal conditions Cassel will improve his numbers over last year by quite a bit. He’s surrounded by more talent, and had a very good completion % in the pre season. He’ll find his stride.
by What a Mclusterf*ck on Sep 16, 2010 11:23 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He didn't say that would happen.
He just said if cassel can’t do any better than last week then our chances go down a shit ton.
Do you REALLY disagree with that?
"The dirtier the sound the best I breathe, I tried to do it all for you and you didn't do anything for me"
maybe i missed the saqrcasm
But I disagree with the premise, I could say if matt cassel shits in his hand and wipes it on the line judge we’re probably going to get a penalty. It’s not exactly thought provoking material. It would be funny though.
Aside from that I still give us a better than 5% chance if cassel throws 1 td with no turnovers for 70 yards. So yah, I guess I do disagree.
by What a Mclusterf*ck on Sep 16, 2010 12:00 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
One thing I kind of realized on MNF...
Is that when Jackson went out I was honestly scared for the defense. I don’t know if it’s just me, but I kinda had an epiphany. Over one season and the off-season, I went from ‘Wow, stupid draft pick’ to ‘We need him in the line-up!’ Jackson’s impact, I think, on the team has grown significantly, without anyone (except the Chiefs staff) really noticing. Dorsey’s as well. People and outside views frequently say that Dorsey and Jackson haven’t panned out or lived up to their expectations, but when those two aren’t on the line, it hurts the defense overall significantly. Pretty neat I thought how, as a fan upset at the Jackson pick for a year, I finally really understood it and appreciated the pick when the guy went out of the game.
by rhinosaurus92 on Sep 15, 2010 11:45 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
Good point
And I said something about that in the open thread. Everyone started freaking out about him going down so I pointed out that all these Pioli haters have been calling him a bust since day one.
Didn’t have any responses.
"The dirtier the sound the best I breathe, I tried to do it all for you and you didn't do anything for me"
well put
Jax and Dorsey should be a lesson to people getting down on first and second year players for not being superstars. Most guys take a couple years to become contributors at any level, pee wee to junior high to high school to college to the pros. The latter being the hardest transition by far yet we’re expecting them to come in and take over against guys who have been in more intensive training programs for three to ten years. The very fact that Jax and GleDo made all but one start last year shows they were almost there but still several people expected them to be the same guys. These guys were students and football players going up against guys who’s full time job for several years has been football player.
by What a Mclusterf*ck on Sep 16, 2010 11:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If you read the whole article this quote carried the most weight with me...
“The Eagles have already moved five of their eight 2009 draft picks off the roster, and the Steelers have released five of their nine.”
Those are two teams that are known for their stability and building through the draft year in and year out. If they couldn’t find many solid guys then I would imagine the entire league was hurting.
"There is no charge for awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda
by KCporkchop on Sep 16, 2010 12:22 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
So, since Pioli is a personnel guru,
should that give KC the bigger advantage during a thin draft or a talent-rich draft?
My four-word 2011 mock draft - Mark. Freaking. Herzlich. BAM!
Um...Both?
Look people it’s simple. You can hate our 09 draft. It was bad, whatever. But you can’t use it as evidence for Pioli being bad at his job after he brought us the 2010 draft. Especially when you ignore all of the things going on in his year one.
Maybe you weren’t doing that so sorry, but to everyone else that does; see above.
"The dirtier the sound the best I breathe, I tried to do it all for you and you didn't do anything for me"
I suppose that's why Pioli puts a premium on HIGH character guys, over the just their triangle numbers
Sad to wonder if majority of those guys released were just looking for a nice payday, and forgot all the hard work it took for them to get to that level? Just sayin……….
Jared Allen, Culinary Acadamy
We are beating this like a dead horse
We got 5 starters from that Draft:
Round 1: Tyson Jackson
Round 2: Matt Cassel, Mike Vrabel
Round 7: Ryan Succop
Undrafted: Jovan Belcher
Tell me how five starters out of any Draft is disappointing, because I just don’t see it.
Man, Tyson looked extremely sharp. If he continues that type of play look out!
I noticed a vast difference in line play after he was injured. We really need him healthy and on the field.

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