Chiefs Training Camp: Brodie Croyle's Role, Javier Arenas Talk
by Joel Thorman on Aug 6, 2010 10:10 AM CDT
in Chiefs Training Camp
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PrintIn 2010, the Kansas City Chiefs are clearly Matt Cassel's team. He's taken all the first team reps in training camp and I think everyone understands that.
"He's had a great camp," backup Brodie Croyle told 610 Sports' Bob Fescoe on Thursday. "He just continues to get better and better."
Croyle discussed his role, as the backup quarterback, with Fescoe.
"Whatever role I'm put in, I'm going to do that role," Croyle said, echoing the company line. "Obviously to help Matt as much as I can. As the quarterback group, we have to be a tight-knit group, and we are."
"In the classroom, since he's been in this offense before, with the two years under both of us, we both kind of throw our insight in on things. When we get out here, we just try to push each other. Whether it's throwing at nets, or whatever, that's what being teammates is all about.
Croyle also talked a little bit about Javier Arenas, who went to Alabama. The two didn't play together but Croyle had talked to the coaches about him a little bit.
"Javy ... when they signed him at Alabama, Coach Shula and them were still there and they said he was going to be something special and then he had the career that he had. He's had a good camp and he's another one of those young guys we're looking to help us."
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One difference in camp this year
Is that Croyle isn’t completely destroying Cassel.
Last year it was bad. That alone gives me a little hope for Cassel.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Croyle has always had an arm
That is why Herm thought he could carry the team. He just doesn’t make decisions fast enough for team with an average line at best. He is also not tough enough to take hit after hit….Cassel stand up in the pocket and throws for regardless if he is getting nailed or not. Cassel is a QB that would have his offensive line carry him to take the snap if he broke an ankle. Croyle just isn’t that type of tough guy…never will be…Now if Pioli can get us an all pro oline than Croyle might stand a chance
by groundedchevy on Aug 6, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry little off subject there
Were you at last years and this years training camp? This is very encouraging if so
by groundedchevy on Aug 6, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope, I'm stuck up here in MN :)
However, I’m a psychotic follower of all things Chiefs, and if every report (Gretz, Looney, our very own Joel, and even national outlets that occasionally report on the Chiefs) from the Chiefs camp can be believed, Cassel is light years ahead of where he was last year.
Last year at this time every report (especially by Gretz, who does excellent analysis) without fail mentioned that Croyle was looking relatively sharp and Cassel was looking pretty bad. That was one of the main themes of camp (that and dropped passes, which as we all know continued throughout the year).
This year has been different. Croyle has still looked good from all reports, but the difference is Cassel has too. That makes me feel much better about where he’s at this year as opposed to last year.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I would agree from the reports
I was just hoping with the MN you were are River Falls last year and being a psychotic follower you might have made the trip. Great observations tho
by groundedchevy on Aug 6, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Ahhh I see.
Yeah, I would’ve made the trip. But school and kids are expensive :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
good follow up question.
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 6, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I know!
He floored me there. I felt kind of stupid :)
I mean, I believe the reports, but I can’t really be sure of anything without seeing it firsthand…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
well... he did have the highest YPA game by a Chiefs QB all season last year..
in 1 start, against a very good Baltimore defense.
AKA a worthless statistic
There is no such thing as an “average” of 1 game. At least not in my eyes.
If theres only 1 person taking a test, the average score of the class is pretty much a worthless stat.
If you want to discuss Brodie’s stats vs. anyone else’s then you need to include ALL of his stats compared to an equal number of games of whoever else you want to compare. Look at Croyle’s first 20 games as a starter vs. Cassels first 20.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Good point
Old guys rule...yeah you might have youth and talent on your side...but I have time and treachery...
yeah, he's always had the arm.
people point to injuries or whatever, big my biggest indictment against him is he is in the mold of Favre. All arm and no touch. To me, that is why he’ll never make it. He doesn’t know how to take a little off, just put a little underneath.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Aug 6, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Farve comparison.
That’s kind of interesting. In Brodie’s case though, it’s us wondering if a LB or DL is going to retire him, vice the inevitable “Is Brett coming back” debate every year.
I just meant he is in love with the zip on his throws.
don’t read too much into a Favre comparison any more than that.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Aug 6, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
If only he could stay healthy
Croyle reminds me of Aaron Rogers in the way he throws the ball.
Predictions:
This year will be better
He reminds me of Sylvester Morris the way he folds in half...
I don’t kid I don’t kid…
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 6, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Tyler Palko
What’s he still doing on the team? Can we trade him straight up for Thigpen?
Touchdown Machine: Dexter McCluster
Football Prodigy: Eric Berry
The revival of Derrick Johnson
The Manimal: Tamba Hali
AFC West Champs 2011
Our New Kansas City Chiefs!
by devself1 on Aug 6, 2010 11:18 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Im willing to bet he will get cut
and they will bring in Brian St.Pierre who is a free agent now..Im suprised it has not happened yet
colt brennan?
he was just recently released, but has looked good at times
this should be the most exciting Chiefs team in years! Most major needs filled with playmakers, and the league's best coaching staff... 10-6 a possibility?
Brennan isn't right for us
We’ll be a power running team that passes now and then. Brennan is a spread QB that likes to sling it from the shotgun. He’s in the 3rd year and couldn’t break into the line-up and beat out Jason Campbell (below average QB).
If you are talking about a practice squad guy, okay. But He’s no competition for us for the future.
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 6, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I preface this by saying that I have absolutly positively ZERO confidence....
….in Brodie Croyle as anything more than a back up. And even as a back-up I question his durability, as well as his ability.
His arm is stronger… big whoop. He throws more INT’s and takes more silly chances trying to squeeze a ball in somewhere BECAUSE he has faith in his arm strength and ball speed. Cassel takes more sacks and gets happy feet when protections break down. They both have their flaws.
BUT… in all fairness, Matt Schaub should be the guy that BroKie believers are pointing too. Schaub has led the league in passing 2 years in a row. He’s got a great arm, and does well in the pocket. Schaub had extremely disappointing years for his first 3 years in the NFL, all due to injury. He just could not stay on the field. It really didn’t matter if he had talent, because he was always re-habing something or other. That’s Brodie Croyle in a nut shell.
Look at Schaub now. He’s had a couple injury free years, and several years in the same system. He’s lighting it up in terms of passing yards and TD’s (needs some work in the Win-Loss stat). He’s definitly proven his nay-sayers wrong in the last couple seasons. However, due to his injury history he does fly under the radar in terms recognition of his abilities.
In short (too late): Brokie’s extreme upside is Matt Schaub. His extreme downside is to just keep ending up injured. KC has got to make a decision SOON on weather they want to try to develop the guy for the future, or go after a top-flight QB in the draft. Until then, all my faith is in Cassel; because i’ve actually seen him win.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Aug 6, 2010 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I like the comparison.
I think they look at Croyle as solid backup and that’s why hes still around. If Cassel has a solid year I’d expect them to spend some late round picks on QB to try to find another “Brady like” bargain, but if Cassel fails…time to start looking at first round QBs.
"The dirtier the sound the best I breathe, I tried to do it all for you and you didn't do anything for me"
Exactly how many NFL regular season games has Brodie managed to actually win?
That’s enough for me right there. I don’t care how crappy your teams might have been or how much of a complete failure your coach was. You would think he might be able to accidentally pick up one here or there.
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 6, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
You can't win
if you’re on injury list. How many games did he finish?
by David Winton on Aug 6, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
EXACTLY
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 6, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
He finished the Ravens game, and took some big hits, and got right up.
So we continue to live in the past? M.Cassel sucked last year so should we base our opinion on him by how he played then?
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Yes, we do
We believe what we see. Since all we’ve ever seen out of Brodie Croyle is a fragile loser, and we’ve actually seen Cassel take snaps for 2 seasons AND manage to wins some games… Brokie Croyle will remain a fragile loser until he proves otherwise.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
How can he prove it now?
With this team we have now? It’s not like he is going to be given the chance now is it.I hope Cassel is going to have a great year, but it’s not like the #1 QB job is on the line.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Now he's stuck waiting for his chance to shine...
… just like every other back-up/3rd stringer in the league.
Brokie was force fed his chance to prove himself for 2 seasons. He sat in the trainers room after losing every game he ever started each and every time he got a chance. The front office all but anointed him the QB of the future. He blew those chances due to injuries. By comparison, Cassel got his chance after an injury to Brady and led his team to wins.
Brodie wasn’t a Patriot when he got his chance. Cassel wasn’t stuck behind the Chiefs line. Money doesn’t grow on bushes outside my house, and life isn’t fair. Neither is football. When you get your chance you have to preform. Very few will ever get a chance under ‘perfect conditions.’
If you don’t make the most of your opportunity then you will be forced to sit on the sideline and wish and hope for another chance. Maybe you’ll get one, and maybe you’ll get cut. Welcome to football.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Cassel would have been hurt behind that shitty o-line and would have looked like shit behind it too.
You can use that as a reason, for one thing it’s just stupid, for another it doesn’t make sense to judge what he did then with such a crappy team, to judge how he would play now. How could any QB have looked good with the teams you say he had his chance with?
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Sure I can.
Cassel would have been hurt behind that shitty o-line and would have looked like shit behind it too.
You can use that as a reason,
You are dealing in nothing but assumptions.
You assume Cassel would have been hurt as much as BroCro.
You assume Cassel wouldn’t have had more more success than BroCro.
You assume BroCro could do more with the same team Cassel plays with.
And you are stating your assumptions as facts. They are not facts.
No 2 QBs will ever play with the same team in the same conditions, under the same circumstances. It’s impossible for that to happen. The sheer fact that one guy walks off the field and the other guy walks onto it changes the team, the dynamics, and the circumstance .. even if he’s the only guy to change. The team is not the same team in week 1 that they are in week 5 as they are in week 12 in the NFL. Players get hurt, shuffled around, and replaced. Schemes and play calling changes etc..
It’s100% impossible to measure 2 different players on completely equal footing. It just cannot be done. That leaves us right back where we started. You have to compare what each player does with the opportunity that they get and make your decisions based on what you’ve seen.
BroCro is the back up behind a guy that has done more with the chances that he’s had, and until Croyle can show otherwise Cassel is obviously the better QB and deserves to start.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Yes, but aren't you assuming how Brodie will play with the team we have now.
Assuming that he will be injured again?
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Nah... I'm not assuming that he will get injured again.
I’m just looking at the evidence and pointing at which guy has done more with his chances.
Freak injuries can happen to anyone, but of course a guy that has had them frequently in the past cannot possibly show what he could do if he were not injured.
That’s the bitch about an injury, you lose your place in line. Look what happened with Bledsoe and the Pats. Bledsoe goes down to injury and loses his starting job to some no-name 6th round draft pick named Brady.
Could Bledsoe have done just as well with the team Brady ran while he was gone? Who knows, but there was no turning back. Brady proved himself to be a winner, and aside from a SB start due to experience (that ended in getting benched) Bledsoe never got another chance to play.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
You look at what he's done in the past and "ASSUME" that is what will happen now.
At this point we are all just assuming anything about how both QB’s will play.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
M.Cassel wouldn't have won with those teams either.
IMO B.Croyle would have won 4 games last, maybe more of those close one’s that we lost. M.Cassel has won 4 games for us big fricken deal, that sure proves he’s a better QB huh. If i was to go by how he played last year i wouldn’t want him on the team, period.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
uhmmmmm
Matt only won 4 games as a starter, true….whats brodie’s record again?? The best QB is on the field right now. And dont use any he woulda won….hypothetical isnt worth anything
I don't know, what is B.Croyle record with this team we have now?
The highest payed QB is on the field now, that’s all.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
That's easy
Brodie Croyle’s record with the team we have now is zero wins.
His record with every pro football team he has ever played with is zero wins.
We can make excuses for him all day and night (He played for a lousy team. He didn’t have any help. He would probably be at least as good as XXXX given the exact same circumstance….etc)
But the bottom line is that he has zero wins as a pro football player, and Cassel has done more with the chances he has had.
There is no more evidence to suggest Brodie would be a better starter for the Chiefs than Cassel than there is that Jamarcus Russell would be a better starter than Cassel. In fact, Russell has actually won some games in his career. In an flat out comparison between the 2 guys based off what they have already shown us J. Russell > B. Croyle
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Please take Cassel balls off your golden chin.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Oh, you've got me completely wrong.
I’m not a ‘Cassel is the one’ guy.
I’m just trying to figure out how anyone could actually argue for Croyle over Cassel.
The whole Brokie-manlove just doesn’t make any logical sense to me. There is not one piece of pro-football evidence that Brodie Croyle would be better than Cassel; not one single shred.
There isn’t even any evidence the Croyle > Russell or Grossman or Trent Williams or Sage Rosenfels.. or ANYONE.
If I understand your comments, you seem to be of the opinion that the decision to start Matt Cassel over Brodie Croyle has no merit or basis in logic or past performance. The only reason Cassel is starting is that he makes more money? —
That’s simply not true. There is plenty of evidence and logic to starting Cassel over Croyle. Clinging to the argument that ‘I think (given absolutely no supporting evidece) that Croyle is the better QB and should be starting’ is the real ‘balls on the chin’ man-love of an argument, not the one I presented.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I'm not picking anyone over anyone,
I’m saying that given the chance with the team we have “NOW” and given the same amount of reps with the first team, that Brodie would be as good as Cassel. That’s just my opinion, and i base that opinion on what’s going on now, not what happened in the past, or how many game’s either guy has one.
Sorry for the balls comment, was getting pissed:P
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Bah.. you know me better than that Caveman
You can say all the rotten dirty things you want. It won’t hurt my feelings =P
I can take as well as I can dish, and I’ll always come back to a logical approach to my thoughts
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Cavey can't do logical, just want to break stuff with club:P
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
All I'm really saying is..
There is a lot more evidence suggesting that Cassel can be successful on the NFL level than there is that Brodie can.
Have they had the same opportunities? No. Will they ever? No.
Croyle has the stronger arm. The offense is predicated on throwing a lot of 3,5, and 7 yard slants, comebacks, and flats. If Cassel goes down and you put Croyle in for him then you would have to change the offense to suit Croyle’s strengths. Underneath ‘touch’ throws are not his strength. With Croyle QBing the exact same team we would probably start throwing more 5, 7, and 11 yard hooks, and deep outs, along with more posts and go routes. It would just suit Croyle more to change the offense a bit to fit his style.
I’m not a Cassel homer by any stretch. he’s got a hell of a lot left to prove, but I do think that given the choices of QB’s we have to work with Cassel is the obvious starter. – That is, until someone proves otherwise.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Agreed
Cassel should be the starter IMO too, but mainly because of what we have invested in him.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Matt Schaub is FREAKING huge though
Brokie is fragile
by readANDgold58 on Aug 6, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought that too when I read it.
Completely different body types
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 6, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Croyle is a
better than average backup, when you consider that arm. Kinda like a relief pitcher – he slings ‘em, but he can’t last a whole game. Bring him in when Cassel’s tired, and we’re running out the clock. He can hand off to out RB tandom, and occasionally hit a play-action pass to keep ’em honest.
But...
Those are good point David. But the role of the backup is not to hand off 3 plays a game. It is to be able to manage a 3-4 game stretch if your #1 goes down and at least win you 1/2 the games to keep your teams hopes alive. In the event of losing your starter for the season (see Cassel/Brady or better yet, Brady/Bledsoe) he can take over and keep your team on track and take over. He can’t stay healthy for a 4 game stretch, so it completely stumps me that he is even on our roster. If Cassel goes down this year, you’ll be looking at Palko by the 3rd game.
I say that, and I actually like Brodie.
Brodie Croyle for the Hall of Fame
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 6, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
His injuries were in the damn past get over it, ok.
Now lets look forward to a 4 win year as Cassel has prove he can do here.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Dont get me wrong
I like Brodie too. Wait. let me rephrase that. I like Brodie’s potential. I’m just tired of the chiefs tinkering with him….its gotten to be a joke, he has had every chance in the world and hasn’t done anything with it. The bench is where he belongs and he will get another shot IF matt goes down.
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