Forgive and Forget?
by fairmont on Aug 31, 2010 9:58 AM CDT
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PrintWith Tyson Jackson making our defensive stats look like we have 10 players on any given defensive play, Matt Cassel looking like and average QB, at best, Mike Vrabel on the verge of retirement (I include Cassel and Vrabel in the 09 class because of the pick we gave up for them), Magee, J. Williams and Q. Lawrence on the roster bubble, D Washington, Colin Brown and firmly entrenched on the bench, it appears the only SOLID long- term solution picked up in the '09 draft was Ryan Succop. While the 2010 draft of Berry, DMC, J. Arenas, K. Lewis, Moeaki, Asamoah and Sheff looks to have yielded at least 3 rookie starters, 3 solid contributors and 1 high upside project (so long as the neck injury isn't too serious).
In light of this, admittedly, limited data the 2009 draft class appears to be headed for bust status and the 2010 class looks like a hit. If this does hold true and we see no signifigant contributions from the 2009 class but the 2010 class yields 4 starters and 2-3 signifigant contributors, will you be able to forgive Pioli and Co. for their 2009 bomb?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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2009 Draft is like Sept 11....NEVER FORGET
Politics aside, Obama would of better been served, buying 5 "new" football teams.
he was saying it was horrible and hell never forget it
i think
by jcharles the future on Aug 31, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Flowers made his point
Ninja Ass
by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 31, 2010 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Why do New Yorkers
feel like they have some ownership over 9/11? People from all over the country died that day. Its not a NYC thing, its an America thing. It changed a lot of peoples lives including mine and i am from ks.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
by paratrooper on Aug 31, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yep
I understand why they feel that way paratrooper. My wife is from NYC and she grew up seeing the twin towers everyday. There is more of an emotional attachment because until after I joined the Marines and went to NYC I had never seen them. I was upset it happened but didn’t understand the impact it had on the daily lives of people out there. That being said you are right, I joined the Marines because of that incident and fought in Iraq 3 times. I would probably still be going back over seas if I wouldn’t have gotten injured there and now being discharged.
The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.
Though oddly enough
It’s people outside of NYC that make the biggest deal of it.
I lived in NYC for years, and my wife was born / raised there. We hated what happened on 9/11. Definitely a life changing event.
But New Yorkers don’t seem to dwell on it like those outside the City (well, and mostly the media). It was awful. It hurt. The City mourns its losses and moves on.
In retrospect, attacking NYC was probably not the most effective thing the Taliban could’ve done. Throwing a sucker punch at a city of almost 9 million people – a city whose official motto is, “No…f*** YOU!”, probably didn’t have the morale crushing effect they’d hoped for.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
not morale crushing
but certainly economic crushing. And your right that most people aren’t dwelling on it anymore, the majority that I have met will agree it was horrible but you have to move on, just is the case in almost anything.
The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.
Not economic crushing for all...
For an old finance class I looked at the economic impact of Sept 11 on the defense industry. Their cumulative abnormal returns in the month after markets reopened was upwards of 40%.
Politics aside, Obama would of better been served, buying 5 "new" football teams.
2009 Draft Class was abysmal
Pioli seriously needs to ace the next two to make us perennial contenders.
I Like The 2010 Draft Class Much Better Than 2009
But that’s not much of an accomplishment considering how bad 2009 was. Pioli still needs to do better than drafting a nickel back in the 2nd round…especially when your backup QBs are Brokie Croyle and Tyler Palko and Jimmy Clausen is still on the board.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
That's my one complaint about the draft
When a guy like Clausen falls that low, don’t you have to take him unless you have a proven franchise QB?
Don’t get me wrong, I like Arenas… He’s looked great as a returner, and he’s looked good at CB as well (it was his pressure that led to the Lewis pick), but Clausen was supposed to be a top 10 pick…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
There is a reason Clausen fell
IF he fell that far, and we passed on him WITH his old coach on our sidelines, that HAS to say something about him.
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
by BAMFSpecialOps on Aug 31, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah there's just something about that guy that rubs me the wrong way
On the field and off the field. Can’t put my finger on it, but I’m glad we didn’t pick him up. I would’ve been perfectly fine drafting a QB to develop if they saw the potential for one. Just not him.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
I Like Him A Lot Better Than Croyle
Who can’t be trusted to stay on the field for any length of time. And Tyler Palko has looked horrible. Which wouldn’t be an issue if Matt Cassel played more like Peyton Manning or Brett Favre than late career Kerry Collins or Neil O’Donnell with the Jets.
And as a second round pick, a guy like that is worth a look because the risk-reward ratio is so much better considering how much the contract amount drops.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Exactly
Although BAMF (great name by the way), makes a good point.
If Weis had told them, “this guy is a franchise QB”, I imagine they would’ve taken him.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 31, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
That's part of the equation why something with the guy doesn't sit well with me
Strictly going by numbers, he should’ve been a bargain in the 2nd round. But the reality is something well different, I think.
Like maybe he eats children, is secretly a Raiders fan or a Scientologist or something.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
He's Always Struck Me As A Bit Immature
But then that could also pretty accurately describe Brett Favre or Dan Marino coming out of college.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
That could describe Favre 20 years after leaving college :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 31, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey! You should NEVER accuse someone without knowing for sure...
Of being a Raiders fan!
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 31, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
True
Or Pioli and Haley may not have wanted to start a QB controversy if Cassel struggled again with the offense. They’ve got this troubling pattern forming where they seem to prefer players who don’t force the coaching staff and front office to answer uncomfortable questions…like why the QB who they gave a six year contract to isn’t nearly as good as he looked in New England.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Didn't break Quinn's records.
We all know how Quinn turned out… why take a guy that wasn’t as good as Brady Quinn.
I agree and disagree.
Cody should have been the pick, not Arenas.
One of Pioli’s first moves was to move to a 3-4 despite having 0 players who fit the mold of 3-4 players. Luckily for him Tamba worked out as an OLB and Dorsey has been alright as a DE. 2 years in a row he ignored the NT position and when Cody was still on the board, he should have pulled the trigger. Ozzie Newsome who knows a thing or two about drafting D-Linemen grabbed him and all reports have been positive.
by craig in calgary on Aug 31, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with this, Cody fell past our second pick in the second round
I don’t really see why at that point we couldn’t take a flyer on him.
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
by BAMFSpecialOps on Aug 31, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not putting it all on Pioli.
I think Jackson was all him. Because of the timing he had to use the scouts from the old regime, and they had to know that the writing was on the wall. He brought in his own people, and everything comes up roses.
my understanding (thru a Jon Yoon post, I believe) is that Pioli simply didn't trust any of Herm's scouting staff ...
… and thus simply went with his own method of selection, based perhaps on a large wall chart and a set of darts (it’s possible, of course, he used a less reliable method of selection)
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
He had a large area of ground marked off
He put every name in the draft in it’s own small square, then let a chicken loose. Wherever it pooped, that’s who he drafted.
Odd, but true.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 31, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
And then he got to eat fried chicken
Win-win.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 31, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
How about we actually let the 2010 picks... you know... play a season or two before we declare them the "best picks EVAR!!!!11!!1"...
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Aug 31, 2010 10:31 AM CDT reply actions
And...
Jackson isn’t done yet. Vrabel was a 2 for 1 deal… and the experience and leadership he brought to the defense CAN’T be ignored.
2009 just might pan out to a good LDE, average QB, great LB corp, and great kicker.
That’s a pretty good “draft”/offseason acquisition.
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Aug 31, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Didn't vote - didn't care for the choices
While the 2009 draft is still looking suspect, especially since the 2010 draft is looking hot right out of the gate, I think it’s too soon to call the 2009 draft a failure. I still have hope for Brown, Magee, and Washington. But I’m in the camp that says you need to wait at least 3 full seasons before grading a draft class. I think that’s true for bot the 2009 and 2010 classes. While we all have high hopes for this years class, they haven’t played a regular season game yet.
As for your voting choices, I think it’s too soon to say how great the 2010 team is, so I certainly wouldn’t do a Ditka and say it’s worth three others. I don’t expect any GM to hit 100%, but they are responsible for all the picks they do make. And I certainly don’t buy the “Free Agent” comment.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx
Ah see... it's when you don't care for the choices that you pick the most ridiculous one.
"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"
by Red N Gold Beast on Aug 31, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Kinda the point
All of this early optimism for the 2010 draft got me thinking of how it SEEMS that we have had polar opposite drafts. It will be interesting to see it all play out. Who knows? T Jax may turn into a beast, Magee may turn into a very solid rotational guy, Berry may disappear, McCluster may get destroyed.
And for the record I am firmly on the fence with both drafts. I hope that Cassel tears it up this year and every year hereafter, I hope it “clicks” for T. Jaz, I hope Berry is a 12 year stud, I hope Colin Brown develops into a solid O lineman, I hope Asamoah is 15 year Pro bowl guard.
Sheesh, everyone is so serious! :)
I think I need a signature line...which do you like?:
Nothing taken in this post should be taken to seriously, literally, or as a matter of fact
OR
All comments in this post are further from the truth than they appear
OR
All comments are made with tongue firmly in cheek….
I smell a new poll!!:)
How about this one.
I should not put up a poll over my sig line.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
by paratrooper on Aug 31, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
No doubt the switch is big
Not sold on Lawrence, with Arenas returning well I don’t see Lawrence seeing much time aside from perhaps punt and kickoff coverage. I would love to see Brown compete for the RT job.
Great, more overreacting to one year in the pros
A lot of these guys were viewed as projects when we drafted them (Washington, Brown), and it also was expected that Tyson would need a few years to develop (like all dlinemen).
As other people said, you have to wait a few years to really grade a draft.
I agree with Boots
plenty of “works in progress” from 09’s class…
and 4 quality starters Jackson, Cassel, Vrabel, Succop
2010 looks much better and more exciting of course, but in a couple yrs, I think we’ll see that 2009 was a solid (not spectacular group)
this should be the most exciting Chiefs team in years! Most major needs filled with playmakers, and the league's best coaching staff... 10-6 a possibility?
I have honestly struggled to try to figure out what 2009 was
Was it an ill- informed draft or was it a draft with the attitude of solid developmental low risk low reward players. It just seems that the Chiefs need to never again select a defensive lineman higher than 4th.
Agreed
please use free agency or trade for D-line with the next couple of attempts
I was mad as $#%@ when we drafted Dexter McCluster and now I'm ordering his jersey......oh the irony! Go Chiefs!
by Hail2DaChiefs on Aug 31, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
definitely a true story. I was cursing for a good 5 minutes when I saw that come across the screen.
I was mad as $#%@ when we drafted Dexter McCluster and now I'm ordering his jersey......oh the irony! Go Chiefs!
by Hail2DaChiefs on Sep 1, 2010 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions
As posted previously on this site
There seems to be a lot of data that shows D-Lineman take 2-3 years to develop into consistant players. The reason TJ got so much bad rep was because he was one of the few rookie dlineman to start. Most dline take a few years before they are starters.
We basically threw him into the fire last year. I think we will see him much improved this year (as we saw with Dorsey in his year 2 season last year). This is only based on historical trends of other dlineman, and nothing at all to do with how I see him playing on the field.
Apples and oranges
Big difference in knowing your team and drafting accordingly, versus drafting in 09, without having a feel for the team and unsure of the staff. Having said that Pioli was already immersed in the draft evals while at NE. So in my estimation no pass given for the 09 draft. Reaching for players and trying to hit a home run may prove costly draft wise but he really helped improve the talent as seen in improved special teams play with free agents. Plus this last draft class was much better than the previous one and it shows already.
But that leads to the argument
That 09 was a class full of “developmental” guys and 10 was skill guys… Hopefully they will hit their stride at the same time. I think I just decoded “The Process”!! :)
Bravo :)
next world problem please!
Ninja Ass
by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 31, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Bullshit
Every draft class has talent, especially at the top of the draft. How long did it take those SC linebackers to develop? How about that safety out of Oregon with only 9 INT’s.
Politics aside, Obama would of better been served, buying 5 "new" football teams.
But there is a difference in drafting for NE and KC
Pioli may have been immersed in the prospects for a NE team that is already built, needed a few good role players, and not true building blocks. You have to let Pioli scrap both NE’s and Carl Peterson’s draft plans. New England’s for what I said above, and Peterson’s because, well, how do you trust another GM’s plan for what you want in character and ‘team first’ players?
You see what happens when Pioli gets all of his guys into place and a whole year to evaluate players who he thinks can build this team, good things happen. He gets a pass for ’09 in my opinion.
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