While In Prison, Michael Vick Imagined Playing For The Chiefs One Day
by Joel Thorman on Aug 21, 2010 7:59 AM CDT
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This story isn't quite what you think it is.
While in Leavenworth Federal Prison, Michael Vick watched NFL games whenever he could. Because Leavenworth, KS is less than an our from Kansas City, the games on TV were always the Kansas City Chiefs.
Vick recently said that when he thought of playing football again, it was in red.
"When I imagined myself playing again, it was always for the Chiefs," Vick told Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer.
I don't think the Chiefs would be interested in signing Vick. Hey, they've proven me wrong before but it doesn't exactly seem like a match made in heaven.
Next week, the Eagles will visit the Chiefs in their third preseason games 15 months since Vick left Leavenworth Federal Prison.
"There will definitely be a moment of reflection," Vick said. "I think I'll be thinking about how I always hoped I would get that second chance and prayed every time that I was watching those games that I would be allowed to play again."
(H/T Arrowheadlines)
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Mike as a Chief?
You never know though. Weis could use him. But he doesn’t fit the right 53. Man, that close to Heavenworth, I wonder how he plays here.
is this the cue to talk about the triple wildcat?
vick, charles, and mccluster? lol.
" It was great for me to get out of that city, because it was just a lot of jealousy, envy and hate that came with being a part of that city."
- LJ, after taking denial lessons from our current President
by chief Stevie_k on Aug 21, 2010 8:36 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
With a backfield like that....
it won’t matter if Niswanger hikes the ball over their heads.
Go Chiefs!!!!
no thank you
I am a die hard chiefs fan and a huge dog lover, i swear to god if he was ever a chief i would have a huge bonfire in my front yard and start finding me another nfl team to support
I cant wait to see the NEW ARROWHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chiefs will be competing for a division title in 2010
Then you are not a Chiefs fan .....
And I hope you never come to a game.
by penut on Aug 21, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
hmm...how do you explain this?
I am a die hard chiefs fan
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Aug 21, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with Penut
If one man can change your feelings about the chiefs your not a true fan
My bold prediction for 2010....The Chiefs win the AFC west with a 9-7 record, while the Chargers fall off, Denver remains the same, and Oakland, well enough said.
Offensive Player of the Year = J Charles
Rookie of the Year = Eric Berry
by DirtySouth Chiefs Fan on Aug 21, 2010 9:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I can see it both ways...
But imo the man did his time….it’s time to move on…dog fighting is part of the culture down south, at least to a degree. He was probably introduced and desensitized at an early age blah blah blah…not making excused for Vick, or saying it’s right….just that it’s time to move on.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Aug 21, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Just an FYI...
Its an even bigger problem up in the north… in states like Virginia (where Vick is from) and Ohio. Ohio 3 years ago had the largest dog fighting ring in the US broken up. Another form of gambling in this region is cock fighting… This is a big problem in Eastern KY (and I assume that dog fighting is probably just as bad here).
Go Chiefs!!!!
Exactly
It was stupid and heartless, but is it really necessary to stigmatize the guy for the rest of his life for it?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Especially
when the NFL is more than willing to make excuses and gives out less punishment for all kinds of other behavior, like wife beating.
Maybe just step up the punishment for guys who are proven
to do awful things like wife-beating too.
Raise the bar!
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
by TRSChief on Aug 21, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I absolutely agree
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
More like you..
Are not a dog lover..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNm2rFzdvW8&feature=related
by LHO on Aug 21, 2010 11:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
There's a big difference between not being a dog lover.....
and being a torturer of dogs.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
Bummer
because i will be at every game this year as i have been to all but 2 games in 11 years.
i do not believe normal people have the capacity to do the things he did, you have to be devout of any kind of a conscience.
I also think guys like ray lewis and big ben are just as bad the things they did takes a special kind of people to do and i dont think you can give people a conscience thru rehabilitation
I cant wait to see the NEW ARROWHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chiefs will be competing for a division title in 2010
by Bleedzredngold on Aug 21, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Big Ben really?
At least leave it to people who were charged with a crime.
God damn.
"The dirtier the sound the best I breathe, I tried to do it all for you and you didn't do anything for me"
Blledz, I got your back, buddy ...
I’d rather lose with a team filled with high character guys than win with even one Michael Vick … being a diehard fan does NOT mean, or even imply, that it’s acceptable to be morally or ethically wrong
for those who seem to forget, football is a sport, and that means sportsmanship … those of you calling Bleedz something less than a fan of the team are showing something worse than mere disagreement, you show intolerance, and the tacit or implied argument that animal cruelty is somehow acceptable
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Would you stop being a fan if we signed Ray Lewis?
Just thought I’d bring that up. He was an accessory to a murder, and people still love him.
I agree, though, that there are acceptable times to stop rooting for a team. I guess people have to decide if what Vick did was unforgivable.
IMO, there’s nothing that’s unforgivable. But if someone disagrees and would want to choose a new team because we signed a guy that ran a dogfighting ring, well, more power to them.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
minus one sir
I’m not a Vick fan, nor do I want him on my team. I don’t agree with what he’s done, nor do I think he’s even that good anymore. I don’t agree with the losing with high character guys comment….mostly because thats exaclty whats about to happen this year.
by craig in calgary on Aug 21, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
craig, understand this ... I don't want the team to lose, but ...
as a “public entity” they represent our city, and they represent me … kids look up to those guys and emulate them … it’s like steroids in baseball: we have kids taking steroids and HGH because their “heroes” do it
“cheating” is ok? since when??? the LAST thing I want is a lowlife as someone that represents my town or someone the future of this world (the younger generation) looks up to as a “role model” (look kids, we have a team of thugs and liars and dog killers and wife beaters and drug users … but hey, it’s ok ‘cause we WON! isn’t that GREAT?!? now run along and be JUST LIKE THESE GUYS … lie, cheat, beat and kill and you can be a winner, too!!!)
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Everyone makes mistakes.........
I too love dogs and they didn’t deserve the way he treated them, However Vick paid his time for his actions. I could care less for him to be honest but if he were to get picked up by the Chiefs I would hope he would donate money to Kansas City Humane Society’s and score a few TD’s.
Having the heart of a sadistic bloodthirsty killer, is not a mistake.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
it's a misforturne.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
woops...misfortune. Bad luck. Ungratuitous. A blight on humanity.
The manifestation of evil. And many more things, just not a “mistake”.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
Ask yourself a simple question.....
How many of you would be high-five’n and laughing and chugging beers while watching a live dog being disemboweled with a large hunting knife?
If you ask me, he’s the personification of evil.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
K, I'd be out there disembowling whoever was running it ...
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
damn, Joel, what a wicked thing to toss out in front of tired, sleepy eyes first thing in the morning
… I am SO glad it didn’t happen here, I’d hate to see the reputation of the team drop with the addition of someone like Vick
and yes, if anyone is wondering, I do own a dog … a rescued from a shelter Doberman, so yiu can likely imagine my thoughts on Vick aren’t particulay positive
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Huge dog lover
I own 2 dogs, and will always own at least one dog. What Vick did, he deserved his time in prison and really should have gotten more for the blatant disregard for life; the mistreatment/abuse of any animal should carry harsher punishments. Unfortunately, that is a slippery slope our legal system could fall into; could someone who steps on an ant hill on purpose be considered a “mass murderer”?
With that said though, everyone deserves a 2nd chance, and thus far, Vick has shown that his 2nd chance won’t be wasted and he’s made good on being an upstanding citizen, again, thus far. While I wouldn’t mind seeing Vick in Chiefs red, i don’t think he would fit on this team with his style of play, strengths, and weaknesses. I don’t see a place for him now, and can’t imagine Pioli/Haley/Weis trying to come up with one for him.
If the Chiefs win on MNF, I'm not changing my underwear until they lose
"I'm not superstitious. I'm a little-stitious"-Michael Scott
by FalconMF27 on Aug 21, 2010 9:09 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I only disagree with part of that.
With that said though, everyone deserves a 2nd chance, and thus far, Vick has shown that his 2nd chance won’t be wasted and he’s made good on being an upstanding citizen, again, thus far.
You seem to forget that he had a drunken night club birthday party for himself in a very public setting where he charged $50 a head for any random person to get in and cause trouble. Then when someone was shot outside the club, he claimed to have left 30 minutes before it happened and even had multiple witnesses paid to back up his lie. Then when the police got video showing him walk out just 2-3 minutes before the gun went off….Oops!
Yeah… really turned his life around hasn’t he. He doesn’t get it and he never will. In 15 years, there will be a story written about “where are they now” and he’ll be dumb, broke and pitiful. I for one won’t shed a tear.
RUN DEXTER RUN!!!!
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 21, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
So....
what did Vick do wrong in this situation? Threw a party? Protected himself by saying he was nowhere around the problems, even if the time frame wasn’t accurate? Is he being held accountable for having this party where some unsavory folk showed up?
I don’t think this situation warrants any reason why he still can’t be considered doing well with his 2nd chance. He’s still young and stupid, in which we all were at one time, and been at parties where bad things happen. Maybe Vick grows out of that propensity to party, but who knows. I know that throwing a party isn’t in the same ballpark as what he did to get himself in prison, so for now, thus far, he’s doing well.
If the Chiefs win on MNF, I'm not changing my underwear until they lose
"I'm not superstitious. I'm a little-stitious"-Michael Scott
by FalconMF27 on Aug 21, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kind of true
But kind of not, also. He’s still putting himself in stupid situations and he’s still a liar.
He’s just protecting himself, yeah. But so what? When did that make lying justifiable? Is it ok for me to cheat in my classes so that I can “protect myself” from getting denied access to a top 10 law school?
The dog fighting thing wouldn’t keep me from signing him. People deserve a second chance, sure. But he’s showing very similar decision making in the environments that he’s putting himself in and his propensity to lie.
Both show that he hasn’t learned much about much IMO.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
It's all from a perspective
In a highly watched individual with a past record tells someone they left 30 min. before something bad happened, and it ended up being 5 min., what’s really the difference? If you WERE caught cheating at some point in one of your classes, and a different situation later arose that the person sitting directly next to you was caught cheating, would you say you weren’t sitting next to them? What would be the difference if you weren’t cheating, if it saves you the suspicion? Would you get kicked out of school on suspicion b/c you were sitting next to the guy that cheated?
If the Chiefs win on MNF, I'm not changing my underwear until they lose
"I'm not superstitious. I'm a little-stitious"-Michael Scott
To be honest, I really would not lie in that situation
I have faith in the truth.
I get what you’re saying, but I believe that kind of thinking is one of the reasons our world is so messed up. People are always more dedicated to saving their own behinds than to the truth.
It’d be tough, but if I was trying to prove to people that I’m a reformed guy, I’d stick to the truth.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
I think truth is always the best route, but I’ve been in a situation that cost me a job b/c I was honest about something that was not any wrong doing, and when you leave it in other’s hands to interpret, it can cost you dearly when they interpret it as such. I can go into details about it if you wish, but trust me, I learned a hard lesson that day, that sometimes, it’s better to deny, deny, deny.
If the Chiefs win on MNF, I'm not changing my underwear until they lose
"I'm not superstitious. I'm a little-stitious"-Michael Scott
by FalconMF27 on Aug 21, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
How many parties do you throw that end in a gun fight?
This guy can’t figure out how to disassociate himself from the loser crowd he hangs with. There is a reason your mother didn’t want you hanging out with that certain crowd. Vick is a case study of why you should avoid those people at all costs.
Left Tackle is Brandon Albert's natural position.
-in a Chiefs uniform.
He can come to the city. Just don’t play on the team that I love, please.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
I dont know man
I think the point is… you get a second chance, then you really shouldnt be in a position where these things are happening around you(nightclub incident). He has a clean slate and trouble is finding him already. Did you know the dude who had the gun in this incident was his co-defendant in the dog fighting case. He is still keeping the wrong sort of people around him, I think vick is an idiot and have a hard time feeling that anything he says about second chances is b.s.
by ARROWHEADSHANE
Part of M. Vick ’ s parol condition is to stay away from the guy who got shot . I don’t think that guy will approach Micheal Vick again . Parole or no Parole .
by 65tosspowertrap on Aug 21, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
NO!
We like out team with character. The guy wasn’t a great QB before all the dog killing and shootings at birthday parties and lies to the NFL commissioner as well as the Falcons organization. On top of that, he was quoted saying how when he was in prison, he had time to reflect on his past play and how he wished he had given his best effort because he just kind of skated through doing just what he needed to do to get by.
All that being said, he is not a good enough QB to win it all. I want the Chiefs to WIN IT ALL!
RUN DEXTER RUN!!!!
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
I'm a cat lover
Bring him in! Haha
My bold prediction for 2010....The Chiefs win the AFC west with a 9-7 record, while the Chargers fall off, Denver remains the same, and Oakland, well enough said.
Offensive Player of the Year = J Charles
Rookie of the Year = Eric Berry
by DirtySouth Chiefs Fan on Aug 21, 2010 9:26 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Anyone here hunt for sport?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 9:33 AM CDT reply actions 5 recs
haha wow that is an excellent point
REC’d for being original
by groundedchevy on Aug 21, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No. I don't.
RUN DEXTER RUN!!!!
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 21, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope you're not comparing
hunting for sport with torturing and killing animals.
Sure, some jackasses hunt like that (you know, purposefully shooting in non-lethal areas to make it last longer). But most hunters shoot to kill, and it’s much quicker and cleaner than the way any other animal would kill.
You should eat (or skin for use) what you kill, or at least give it to someone who WILL use it. However, there’s a big difference between putting a bullet in a deer that kills it within seconds and having dogs maim each other for money (while torturing to death those that are washed up).
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd be willing to bet...
That most people hunt for recreation, sport, competition, a cash purse, and putting those 8 points on display on a wall.
Taxidermy, anyone?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
The vast majority of hunters I know keep the meat they kill
And given that I live in MN and have lived in North Dakota as well as eastern Montana, I know plenty….
Very few everyday hunters hunt for a cash purse or in a competition of any kind.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Regardless, it happens.
And it’s socially acceptable. You disagree?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't have a problem with it
Even the deer that are killed in competitions (at least the few I’ve seen) are used as meat.
Also, the reason that the majority of those type of competitions are held is that there’s an overpopulation in the area.
Does pure “sport killing” (where there’s no reason, no use for it, and just for fun) happen? Yes. Do I like it? Not really.
But is it nearly as brutal as a dogfighting ring? In all but the most extreme cases, no.
In most hunting circles, it’s considered bad form to kill for no reason.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
We're talking about indigenous animals, right?
Who is really doing the over populating?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You mean deer?
Uh… they’ve kinda been here a while.
So what do you propose be done about overpopulation?
And all that aside, what’s the problem with a hunter going out, bagging a deer, taking the meet (which is seriously good stuff when done right), and hanging the antlers?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
That should be "meat"
spelling fail :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I've no problem with it
But hunting for sport, a cash purse and a trophy should be held to the same standards as Vick’s dog-fghting, and it isn’t. Instead, it’s socially acceptable and perfectly okay for most.
Hell, Vick got more for fighting dogs than some people get for manslaughter. And, to boot, there were more people outraged at Vick than they were at Stallsworth. Fucking bizarre.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Stallworth*
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah that is crazy
I’m an animal love to the fullest and can’t stand the shit they do sometimes w em, but Stallworth KILLED someone and Vick got more time. Shows more about our system than anything. C.R.E.A.M!!
by KCinIL on Aug 21, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, dogs are cute, and people like them
And we hear about drunk drivers every day. We’re a little more desensitized to it.
You’re right, it’s not ok.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
and those drunk drivers should be in prison for a long, long, long time
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Amen
I think we could really cut down on that crime if we made the sentence less of a joke.
You’d think something that kills and maims so many people every year would be a more serious crime…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
That's one good thing living here in TN
It’s one of the harshest states in the US on drunk driving.
Tennessee State Po-po do not play around when it comes to that.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
I think that is bizarre
But hunting, even for sport, is much much much MUCH quicker than what Vick was doing to those dogs. Very different things.
Being shot is faster than any other death those animals are going to get. Have you ever seen coyotes take down a deer? It’s ugly, and slow.
Like I said, to an extent I agree with you. Hunting purely for sport and then wasting the meat isn’t something that I like. But to equate it with burning them alive and making them tear each other apart is extreme.
As I said, in most hunting circles of real men, hunting JUST for sport is looked down upon.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Genesis 1:26
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
on the other hand ...
Teach your children what we have taught our children, that the earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of the earth. If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves. Man does not weave this web of life. He is merely a strand of it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself. Earth does not belong to us; we belong to earth
Chief Seattle
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
More like, pursuant to, consistent with, or in addition to....
than “on the other hand”.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
Our God Given Dominion is what allows us
to adopt that philosophy.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
And to dictate when the killing of defenseless
animals, is either wrong……or right.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
We would have no authority over these matters
had it not been given to us.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
given? by whom?
we TOOK … there’s a difference
but I fear we’ll have to save that for Theology class … someday my friend, someday
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The same authority that allows us to punish
a man like Michael Vick, for his cruelty to dogs, is the very same that allows us to hunt, shoot and kill deer for meat, or to slaughter caddle for steak. It is the God given dominion over all animal life on the planet.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
well, Seattle doesn't claim man to have "dominion" over anything
rather, he says we are part of … earth, including the web of life (and animals)
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Well, technichally, that's correct, but God chose
to not make it a level playing field, by providing us with bipedalism and the largest brains on the planet.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
See you in the game thread Sr. Ups.
"Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something."
~ last words of Francisco ("Pancho") Villa ~
I think Darwin might disagree about the Origin of the Bipedalism
that said, surely we can do better with our brains than dog fighting
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
MN, here's an idea ...
reintroduce the Wolf, that native predator … in numbers and areas that it was in originally … that will absolutely take care of any overpopulation of deer
and, by happy coincidence (well, natural cause and effect, actually) it will, in the long run, repair ecological damage to the entire area as well (and yes, studies have been confirmed that’s precisely what happens … nature, when left to its own devices, takes care of itself)
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Good comment, Ups.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
by upamtn
The Return of The Wolf Pack ! They also fed on mice/rats .
by 65tosspowertrap on Aug 21, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
when they had to, yes
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just remember...
The most dangerous person in the world is a redneck wearing a Wolf t-shirt!
by Chiefs Fanatic on Aug 25, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Very true, and I think that's a good idea in some cases
However, there are also other factors to take into consideration.
For example, real predators like the wolf are just that; predators. And in a world where humans are living, it’s a tough (and dangerous) thing to reintroduce them in large enough numbers to curb an overpopulation of deer and other animals.
I think more of what you’re suggesting should be done. But in some areas, it’s a little unfeasible to introduce such a dangerous predator.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
dangerous to ... whom? the deer? that's what a predator/prey relations means ... danger
if you mean dangerous to humans, then the humans can leave … this isn’t “our world” just because we live on it … destroying it doesn’t help us, and we’re in way capable of controlling it
the best we can do is to live WITH it, as a natural part of it … sadly, we have a tendency to the WORST and think we can tame it or change it or bend it … when in reality we simply make it worse, for us
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also
Is it more humane to let those deer get torn to shreds and eaten while they’re still alive, or to put a bullet in them that usually kills within seconds to minutes?
Like I said before, I’ve seen a pack of coyotes take down a deer, and it was a lot less humane than any hunter I’ve ever seen.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
At least he deer has a fighting chance
Hell, a bullet hits a deer before it even hears the sound of the gun. It’s even less humane than a firing squad. At least they have the foreknowledge to make peace with whomever they pray to before getting capped.
The deer never even saw that shit comin.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
MN, that's the most specious thing I've heard in years ...
“yeah man, we hunt for sport” … so there’s this guy out there with his AK-47 hunting rabbits … for “sport”
please … see, someone who’s actually hungry and NEEDS to hunt to eat, no problem, I understand that … but to say it’s a “sport” is ludicrous on the surface … it’s not a sport to the rabbit, or the deer, it;‘s a matter of life or death, there’s nothing “sporting” about it
that said, nature … in and of itself … is not “humane” rather a lot of times, we put OUR emotions and feelings into those descriptors … it’s a wicked, nasty, brutal place of “strongest survive and weakest die” … apply that to being human and see what you get: anarchy at its worst and mankind at his ugliest
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Dogfighting
Let me go ahead and say I have no problem with hunting. I don’t take part personally but I have no problem with it. I do not agree with dog fighting but if you are comparing the two….Atleast in dogfighting the dog has a fighting chance to survive in hunting it doesn’t. If the dogs are trained to fight and well taken care of otherwise it isn’t a big deal in my head. Now the problem is all the trash people that mistreat the dogs prior to the fight.
by groundedchevy on Aug 21, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
you
need to educate yourself on dog fighting
The ones you see on tv that are busted...
My friend had a neighorbor who was involved in dog fighting….He took very good care of his dogs…well except the fact he fought them. Maybe you shouldn’t just read the headlines on dog fighting before you make that judgement. I don’t agree with it but not all dog fighting owners treat their dogs the way you see on tv. Just like all hunters aren’t good hunters…I’m not saying this is the majority by any means either
by groundedchevy on Aug 21, 2010 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
so, other than allowing the dogs to rip each other to pieces ...
… or, as the theater owner asked following Lincoln’s assassination: “Other than that, how did you like the play, Mrs Lincoln?”
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I love the word specious. Nice
And how many guys out there are hunting rabbits with AK’s? because I’m from some big time hunting states and I have to say, I haven’t seen much of that. Or any, for that matter.
I’ve said this a million times already, but I’ll say it one last time.
Nearly every hunter eats what he kills. It’s considered VERY bad form not to.
So if we’re going to take care of an overpopulated area, why not hunt them and eat them, rather than send in another animal to hunt and eat them?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
On a side note, ups
What are we arguing about here?
Do you believe all hunting is wrong unless you absolutely need the meat to keep from starving?
I’m just trying to get an idea of where you’re coming from…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
well, fast question: how many hunters would hunt just for food and not bother with the trophy antlers they hang on the wall?
how many would rather NOT it be some knd of “competitive sport for cash prizes” or whatever … does it HAVE to be turned into a “game” to watch on TV?
it it’s hunting for survival, I have no qualms at all with that, none whatsoever …
that said, the reason the deer are overpopulated to begin with is because man, in his infinite arrogance, has removed that top predator (the Wolf) from the area to begin with … my argument (above) was that people wouldn’t have to go out and “depopulate” the deer if people hadn’t caused the issue to begin with
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Well, that hypothetical question is a tough one to answer
The simple answer is I don’t know. Most hunters I know love the hunt, but they love the meat even more. I mean, have you had venison? It’s awesome.
I get what you’re saying. And yeah, It would’ve been nice if we’d been more intelligent and not wiped out the natural predators.
That said though…. short of building a time machine and talking people out of gunning down so many wolves, what do we do?
Like I said, I’m all in favor of reintroducing natural predators and getting things a little more balanced in nature. But if that’s not feasible for whatever reason, I see no problem with people who have a taste for venison taking care of it.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
And it's not like they just wiped out wolves
Because it seemed like a good idea.
It was because livestock that they needed for their own survival was getting hunted / hauled off by wolves. If wolves hadn’t been a direct threat to the survival of the agriculturally based people of the time, the pushback wouldn’t have existed obviously.
I still think it sucks, I think wolves are awesome. But it’s naive to think that people just went “ahahah! we’re going to kill off all the wolves because it seems pretty keen!”
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
but why where the wolves going after livestock?
… because when men moved in, the deer and other animals the wolves naturally hunted for food left the area
there WAS a cause for the effect
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
You can go on ahead
And argue the semantics of expansionism, imperialism and manifest destiny if you’d like. I’m not really going to join in on that discussion here on a football blog though.
Ever since humans stopped being hunters / gatherers and evolved our society to incorporate agriculture, we’ve always intruded into our environment. It’s the nature of the societal evolution of plopping down in one place and growing crops / keeping livestock / etc.
But without that societal advancement, we wouldn’t have ever gotten on a track to develop things like medicine, advance the realm of science, philosophy, etc, etc, etc. We’d still be migrating around following herds.
So you take the good with the bad there, I guess. If you’d like to go back to a tribal / migratory gathering society, I guess that’s your call? I do like the stability of a home and the convenience of a grocery store around the corner where I can solve all of my food needs though. Guess I’m just spoiled.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
great read for you, if you're so inclined ...
Ishmael by Daniel Quinn … takes what you posted, basically, and turns it around and upside down, in essence making the point that we SHOULD still be “hunter-gatherers”
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yeah I've heard similar theories
But I’m inclined to disagree. As I still don’t think we’d have life expectancies over 35 and never would have had a chance to develop science and the arts et al due to the migratory nature of a hunter gatherer society.
Civilization in all likelihood would never have developed to the point that it has otherwise. And then there’d be no football.
And that’s just unacceptable!
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
Good book. Interesting theories
My only question is… Why is he writing books and living in a house and enjoying all the benefits of NOT being a hunter-gatherer if he’s so against it?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
not sure how "against" it he is/was ... great book, takes a couple of reads to really "get it"
but I do think he was indeed arguing against the excesses of modern society AND chastising us for thinking we’re somehow “morally superior” just because some book (ie, bible) tells us so
the part where he explains one ancient society taking over a different one AND ADOPTING THEIR STORY AS THEIR OWN is what makes it so … interesting, to say the least
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Let's not go there today, ups
No need for this to become a religious debate as well as an environmental one.
But I will give his book another read when I have the time, just for you!
I think modern society is way over the top as well, so there’s another thing we can agree on.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
you're da best, MN, so I'll leave you with this one last bit ...
Some professors sitting around at a coffee shop one day when God appears and says: “I’ll give one of you a choice. Do you want Wisdom, Beauty or $10 Million?” The oldest of the group immediately shouts out: “WISDOM!”
His friends watch for a few minutes as he sits in silent contemplation, then one of them goes, “Well, say something!” and he responds “I should have taken the $10 Million …”
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Haha that's good stuff
Oh, and by the way…
Go Chiefs!
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
lol
Go Chiefs, MN!
Aaaand we’re done.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
For the same reason my dad the psychiatrist can’t keep a family together.
Easier to preach, than to practice what you preach.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
MN, my use of "AK-47" and a rabbit was ... to illustrate a point
I think the term is “editorial license” … my real point being: humans have the advantage in so many ways, how is going out with a gun to kill an animal considered a “sport” … or perhaps I should ask “why is it considered a sport”
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
It's not a sport, Ups
Haven’t you been listening? Waging war against overpopulation is the endgame, here. In the process, folks get to enjoy some animal killin and good meat. And cash and prizes.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
That's about right
It’s a challenge (although I’d argue that modern rifles take away almost all the challenge) and the meat is tasty.
I don’t know if I’d call hunting a sport… It seems a little brutal to be called a sport.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
For the folks that make the decisions to open up grounds for hunting...
…the endgame may be to fight overpopulation. Those that are doing the killing are most certainly there for recreation, more times than not.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Not really
More often than not, they’re looking for some good venison.
Have you ever been on a hunting trip? Yes, the excitement is partially in the hunt. But the end game is that meat in most cases.
I’ve never met a guy that left a deer after killing it.
I actually know guys that if they hit a deer with their car will toss it in the back of the truck for the meat.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
No, I've no desire to go hunting
I can get meat from the grocery store. I’ve no reason to buy a rifle, scope it, sit a football field away and ‘hunt’ for it.
I don’t even see how that can be called hunting.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
It's a bit tougher than that.
But I’ll tell you what. You do that. Go out into nature with a gun and try to get a deer. You won’t, 99 times out of 100.
Deer have great senses, and they can be tough to find without them finding you first.
The fact that you talk about why hunters go hunting without knowing is a little out of line. If you don’t know, don’t act like you do (and please tell me the same if I do that).
I also am not a hunter, though. Partly because, like you implied, it’s gotten a little easier than I’d like. Also, I don’t have the time.
So we can agree on one thing, right? :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
But hey, I get what you're saying
I’m not a hunter either.
I just know a lot of hunters, and I know why they hunt. It’s not for the reasons you think.
But hey, we both love the Chiefs, so shall we just call it a day on this? Like I said to ups, I think we can agree that we as people have a responsibility to take care of the environment and the animals in it.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I only know what folks around the office talk about...
Some keep the meat and bring it in as jerky. And it’s good shit. But, for the most part, I only hear about how many pts this buck was, or how they got that one’s head stuffed. Overpopulation doesn’t even come up. Which lends me to believe that fighting overpopulation isn’t the intention.
If you say that’s not the case with most hunting circles, that’s fine. But, to this point, that’s not what I have experienced. My experience is that its a joy, its fun, and as a byproduct you get some good meat out of it and lend a hand in fighting overpopulation.
When I do decide to go hunting, though, I’ll be sure to douse myself in Elk piss, use my Gobbler sound-maker thingy to draw them out into the open, and blast that ass from 300 ft.
Yea, it’s not easy to just grab a gun and run out there. But I’d be willing to bet that plenty of folks have bagged a deer their first time out. So it must not be THAT hard.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Again, if you took that bet...
You’d lose.
Most people don’t get a deer their first few times out.
Many teens don’t get a deer their first season even.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Oh, sorry
I don’t really know if it’s a sport. I call it hunting.
The issue at hand for me there was that if there’s overpopulation, why is it any worse to hunt them down with a bullet than it would be to reintroduce wolves?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
why is it "worse" to reintroduce wolves rather than open it up for hunting?
in my mind, it isn’t … and again, there’d be no overpopulation to begin with if mankind in his infinite arrogance hadn’t moved in to begin with
just the way I see it
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I didn't say it was worse
Why not do whichever?
You’re right that man is arrogant. But hey, we’re the top of the food chain.
One thing I know you and I can agree on is that we do have a responsibility (I think it’s God given, I don’t know if you’d agree with that) to look after this planet and the animals in it.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed, at least to an extent ...
thing is.e wouldn’t have to do a lot of “looking after” if we weren’t mucking it up so much to begin with
two “historical/philosophical” POVs on that … the Judeo/Christian/Islamic monotheistic belief and the bible, where man has dominion over the earth and animals … the other is the native american (and other) idea that we are simply a part of something, not that we are anything more (or less) special than any other creature, but rather that we are all interconnected
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
something tells me Joel never imagined, creating this thread ...
… that it would turn into a philosophy class
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Haha I bet not
Well, it’s been good discussing it with you, ups. You’ve got a good grasp on ethical issues and you don’t take it personally when you’re disagreed with.
That’s rare in our culture, and I appreciate it.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
thank you, MN ... tell you what, if I'm ever up your way, we'll have to make it a point to go ...
FISHING!
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I'll bring the dynamite ;-)
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
no, no ... wire ...
you ELECTROCUTE them, dummy!
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
and yes, there are Darwin Awards for both those kinds of idiots ...
the fish electricians and the fish explosives experts … amazing but true
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
haha right
now those are sports
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
totally disagree
im sorry but you really cant compare hunting and dog fighting. these dogs are breed and brought up in an environment of torture, their whole lives they are tortured. and if they cant win anymore they are used as prey for up and coming dogs they are training. that compared to 93 percent first shot kill rate in most states, and 75 to 80 percent of hunters using their game for meat. no comparison.
I am possitive that Jared Allen
Has trophies on his wall…And he hunts with a bow and arrow, not the best way to ensure an animal dies quickly. Killing animals for pleasure is killing animals for pleasure….
by bonesjackson on Aug 21, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't consider it for "sport"
Usually just people w a dominance problem gotta feel all big and bad over something that was probably doing more good for the earth than the person putting a bullet in em. Yeah that’s right I said it! =). Just remember “If humans go animals remain, animals go, humans wont survive”.
by KCinIL on Aug 21, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Buddy, c'mon
How many hunters do you know? I mean, real hunters?
Don’t just believe the stereotypes you see on TV. Most hunters out there are big on nature and use what they kill. Most of them have more respect for nature because they’re out there in it so much.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Who said I watch TV =)
My grandpa used to hunt a lot before he passed, I hated it. Real real hunting is out there Bow n Arrow style even the playing field, hell a child can shoot off a gun at an animal. I don’t think there a lot of real real hunters around anymore, shits changed too much. Now most of em do it for their hobby, not really to help their livelyhood(just my opinion don’t shoot!)
by KCinIL on Aug 21, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey that's cool by me
And I happen to agree with you about bow hunting. It’s much tougher and requires a great deal more skill and patience.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Fuck the bow
Use a spear, like Jared Allen.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha right on
Make that playing field even!
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
native americans
hunted with guns when they became available to them, and they hunted for survival. that bow and arrow argument is silly, and a lot less accurate and more painful for your game. just saying.
Most Hunters
MN problem is the hunters that aren’t like that aren’t prosecuted like Vick was
by groundedchevy on Aug 21, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Very true, and I think that's wrong
Torturing animals isn’t cool, and should be punished, whether they’re wild or tame.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed completely
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
What if, instead, Vick ate those dogs after they were done fighting?
And mounted their heads on the wall?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
I'm pretty sure
That they don’t tie rabbits / deer to a tree and kick the ever loving shit out of them to psychologically damage them to make them “fighting mean” – starve them before a fight so they get that killer instinct and all that jazz.
Could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
why TRS, I do believe you're right about that
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
How psychologically damaging is it to be walking with your family...
…all of you drinking from a stream only to raise your head to the sound of gunshot and your next of kin hitting the ground. I wouldn’t even want to leave my house after seeing something so traumatic happen, but I’d have to in search for food and water, lest I die in agonizing fashion from starvation.
If only there were grocery stores for deer.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
You've completely whiffed on the point
The fact is that to get dogs ‘trained’ for fighting, they conduct literal psychological warfare to keep them mean.
They kick them, beat them with boards / shovels / whatever’s handy, they starve them, and worse. It’s not a "boom, onoes bambi’s mommy died, scamper into the forest!’.
It’s their entire existence of being chained up in a closed off environment, forced to literally live in their own filth and beaten within inches of their lives almost every week. You’re seriously trying way too hard to spin it around to something it’s not. Maybe you’re just sheltered and you’ve never seen these things happening.
I’ve seen it first hand in East Nashville. Buncha straight up ghetto trash raising dogs for fighting. It’s awful. Really, trying to describe it doesn’t do any justice to having seen the sub-human filth that do it actually in the act of it.
They had one dog who just was too ‘soft’. He wasn’t mean enough. They beat him to death in their backyard. Well really they broke his jaw, his front legs and essentially collapsed his left orbital socket and he starved over the next few days.
Yeah that’s exactly like a hunter.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
Yeah he's been trolling all day, it's all good
But the fact is, there are people dense enough to actually think that.
And having seen some of this stuff first hand, it just isn’t funny. It’s literally sociopathic behavior by the people who do it.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
I'd be really sad
And then I’d remember, “hey, I’m a deer, not a human being, and I won’t even remember this in a little while. Yay!” :)
Let’s not get carried away and level up animals with people.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
The standard of leveling up animals with people was set well before I began commenting
Carried away? You DO know there are boutiques for dogs. Seriously?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
My comment was certainly humored exaggeration, btw
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Oh ok cool
I’ve heard a lot of people in some classes I take that actually have that point of view, though, so I wasn’t sure.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
No dice
He was still making them tear each other apart.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Censorship on AP...
damn shame.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Aug 21, 2010 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
by chicks _ love_chiefs
Your just kidding comment ( I tried to recommend ) came you help ?
by 65tosspowertrap on Aug 21, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I am a die hard Chiefs fan
and I would NEVER think about not supporting my team. I don’t care if Vick became our starting QB, he did his time, and it’s over with. I’m a huge dog lover also, but people make mistakes, so we need to look past it.
by KC-Mooma on Aug 21, 2010 9:43 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I dunno
Taking that ugly girl home after you had too much to drink is a mistake.
Rear-ending someone at a stoplight because you were texting someone is a (stupid) mistake.
Carrying on a dogfighting ring over a course of time just seems more malicious and wrought of bad character.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
by TRSChief on Aug 21, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even bad characters reform
They just need to show that they have done so by making better decisions.
We give wife-beaters a second chance in the NFL. We give rapists a second chance. To me, dogfighting doesn’t hold a candle to either one of those.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Second chance wasn't really part of the discussion
Just trying to point out that everyone uses that whole “he made a mistake” line.
It’s simply not true. That kind of thing isn’t a mistake. Neither is beating your wife or raping someone. That’s way beyond simply making a mistake.
This is an extreme example here and bordering on hyperbole – it’s intended to take the issue to the extremes – but consider Auschwitz concentration camp guards. Sure, they were desensitized to the killings since there were so many. So when they gassed / burned all of those people, it was just a mistake.
(I’m in no way saying that Vick is comparable to those people and what they did – but it walks down that path of mistake vs just being an awful human being)
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
I understand that
Like you said, the comparison is out there, but I get what you’re trying to say.
That said, no one is beyond redemption. People do change. I’m not sure if he has though…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm thinking he hasn't
I was full on ready to give the guy a shot at redemption, I’m always a fan of seeing someone overcome their flaws / shortcomings and better themselves.
But when he immediately goes out and starts hanging out with a bunch of dumbass thugs doing dumbass thug crap at his own birthday party – it leads me to believe he just doesn’t get it, and likely never will.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
I agree
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
People don't always change.
I have seen nothing from Vick that makes me think he is any better human being now than he was when he was killing dogs for amusement.
Left Tackle is Brandon Albert's natural position.
Well, for one, he's not killing dogs for amusement.
Which, I believe, is what he went to prison for. I’d say that was a change. Him lying about his whereabouts during a shooting at his party (and I’m going to assume the guy that got shot was not invited) to save his own ass is something entirely different.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
wrong is wrong, it's a matter of shading here ...
the “degree” or “amount” is the value, or perception, we give it … just because what he did at some club was less egregious a sin doesn’t make him angelic … he was out with gangstas and thugs, there was alocohol, and guns (always a bad combination) … he was being irresponsible just being in that situation to begin with … that the “degree of wrongness” changed doesn’t make him someone we’d want
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Perception is everything
Never claimed anything angelic, but if he was killing dogs previously, and he’s not killing dogs now, well, that’s where his conduct has changed.
But that one’s easy. It’ a bit harder to swear off all the folks you’ve been hanging out with since your childhood, and it’ll take more than two years to just do away with it completely.
Wrong is wrong. Certainly. But the perception that we give it are the same perceptions taken in by GMs and Coaches, so the degree DOES matter.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Aug 21, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
yes and no ... I suppose my point was "where does one draw the line"
to illustrate, if I may:
A guy cheated on his taxes, but because of it he couldn’t sleep well, it bothered him, and so he wrote a letter to the IRS that said: “I did cheat on my taxes and I can’t sleep at night, so please accept this check for $500. If, in the future, I find that I still can’t sleep well, I’ll send you the rest”
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I don't understand...
Money is a bit more black and white. Personal conduct is not as universally agreed upon, and is therefore subject to a wider range of perception.
Additionally, it sounds like the guy in the illustration is setting the terms of his payment. Vick’s terms were handed down by the judicial system. And those dues were paid.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
huh?
take more than two years? no you cut those people out of the equation immediately if your in vicks spot. he had the golden ticket, why jeopardize that? It cracks me up when these guys are handed such an amazing oppurtunity and they cant help but screw it up. and vick is one of the worst, hes not sniffing coke or getting hookers, he tortured dogs.
Yes, it takes more than two years to change a mentality...
…that’s been in the making for 20+ years. Absolutely.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
not even a mentality
these guys dont change. atleast have the common sense to keep your nose out of stuff thats going to cost you that incredibly fat paycheck. and they cant, time and time again they cant.
Tebow won't even be able to change his throwing motion in two years
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Who the hell hunts for sport?
Hunting for food is one thing. But waking up one morning and saying “Hmm…today I think I will go out into the woods, find a beautiful living creature that is minding its own exsistence and kill it for fun” I just don’t get it.
Go Chiefs.
Go play for the Raiders Vick. You know its the only place you CAN go at this point.
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"- Freakshow
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Aug 21, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sometimes it is necessary.
I’m not a hunter… but there are places that do need people to ‘sport hunt’. I know of a couple places that are over run with deer, and as a result there are deer running all over the interstate being hit by semi trucks.
This is one example of where sport hunting is necessary… and I wished that more times than not that the hunters would donate the meat to the homeless shelter.
Go Chiefs!!!!
by ravenhawk on Aug 21, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great point
Often there is overpopulation of deer in certain areas..
So, do we let them starve to death or shoot them? You’re right though raven, it’d be nice to see that meat donated.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Or the Bengals
RUN DEXTER RUN!!!!
President - Team Colquitt Fan Club - est. July 29, 2010
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Aug 21, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Killing animals makes me feel like a man
Politics aside, Obama would of better been served, buying 5 "new" football teams.
by HIV 2 Elway on Aug 21, 2010 10:36 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Absolutely.
I started off this morning stepping on a puppy with one foot while squishing butterflies with the other.
I had to type with one hand though, which only left the other hand for the butane torch I had burning live lemurs. Screw them and their cuteness, I say.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
That's an odd way to look at it
Killing animals is easy. My four year old has fired a pistol.
I’m originally from North Dakota. By the time I was in 6th grade pretty much every boy I knew had bagged a deer or two.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Aug 21, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
If they signed him...
I would hope they would do what Reid needs to and make him into a RB/WR cause Vick is not a QB! He would be dangerous if the Eagles would use him as a RB/WR. Put him and Jackson and Maclin on the field with a QB that actually can throw the ball with accurarcy and that could be dangerous.
At doing stupid thug shit?
Absolutely. Cassel can’t hold a candle to the guy in that regard.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
Only care about on-field performance
What anyone wants to do in their personal life is their own damn business…
I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave
by ArrowDread on Aug 21, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Vicks stats are good
If he was a running back. Comparing QB stats w Cassel, not even a contest.
by KCinIL on Aug 21, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
For the record...
Dennis Dixon>Vick; Cassell=Bono
I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave
Ha yeah yeah I know...you like Dixon
Problem is so do the Steelers right now! Hes about to be bumped up to 2
Thought Steelers were going with Leftwich?
I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave
They still don't know
Leftwich starting to show his age a little bit they’re still not sure if he’s even starting while Bens out. Give it up bud he ain’t comin to KC!
Dont kill my hopes and dreams
I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave
by ArrowDread on Aug 21, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh hai
The NFL Player Conduct Policy disagrees:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2798214
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
Shocker!!!
NFL trying to hold a brotha down…
I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave
by ArrowDread on Aug 21, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whats a troll?
Im just keepn it real
I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave
by ArrowDread on Aug 21, 2010 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
by TRSChief on Aug 21, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
more like keeping it insane ...
… of course, you might also think that it’s fine for someone to do anything in their personal life if they can play football? or baseball, or whatever …
no personal responsibility needed by anyone, as long as they “do the job”
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Easy ya'll
Dont wake up angry. Take a joke. Just trying to lighten the mood ’round here…you know me….
I'd rather be a free man in my grave than living as a puppet or a slave
by ArrowDread on Aug 21, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I've seen enough of your posting to know you're just BS'ing
But the sad thing is, there isn’t a shortage of people who’d say things like that and mean it. That’s the bit that boggles my mind.
That and I probably need more coffee right now.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
by TRSChief on Aug 21, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't even matter really
By signing their contracts with the teams, the league, the players’ association union membership – they agree that to get paid what they do to play football, they will abide by the player conduct policy.
So regardless of what dread thinks, the league, the teams, the players union and any fans that give a shit about the integrity of the game are backed up by that agreement. I’m glad it’s there and wish it was a bit more stringently enforced.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
Maybe pre leavenworth
He has 4 turnovers already this pre season. I saw where he apologized to the Atlanta fans though for not working hard, watching game film, he said he always thought he never needed too.
Man if Matt Cassel
don’t pan out 2 be what he’s suppose ta be and at this point my faith is still with Matt Cassel I haven’t gave up on him yet… but if Vick is still a Back up for the Eagles the Chief’s will need to sign Vick ASAP! that will be insane Vick, Dex, JC
by KCCHIEFS4EVA on Aug 21, 2010 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
insane is lowering the moral and ethical values of the community to accept that someone who sets up places for animal cruelty to be paid millions for our entertainment with a football
this isn’t about how good or bad Cassel it, it’s an exercise in morality and ethics … huge difference
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
by upamtn
Sounds like Mike Vick just needs a financial manager .
by 65tosspowertrap on Aug 21, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Right.....
And we would be having the same discussion if it were Big Ben
by bonesjackson on Aug 21, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
another schmuck who should be behind bars
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
by bonesjackson
Bad judgement is bad judgement .
by 65tosspowertrap on Aug 21, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Eric Berry is 8 /12 years younger than Mike Vick
And he could give Vick lessons all day on being a man.
I wouldn’t take 20 Vicks in trade for 1 Berry.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
by TRSChief on Aug 21, 2010 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
who am I to blame him for ..
wanting to be a chiefs fan. It shows even someone with very few common sense can show some common sense afterall.
Watched him play last night.
He looks bad. Dude was getting destroyed, threw a couple ducks, no vision. He’s not a QB.
Chiefs 2010 Prediction: 8-8
Hey thanks up, MN and dread
For an entertaining discussion today.
Good to keep the gears churning on a Saturday.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
What -- no love?
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Gah! And spread!
I knew as soon as I hit “post” that I’d missed probably at least a couple of names.
Afternoon’s starting to get busy for me and mind is getting preoccupied.
Props to ArrowSpread as well.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
I appreciated your input as well
My afternoon, if you hadn’t guessed, is not nearly as busy. Hence my trolling :-)
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Vick, Charles, McCluster in the same backfield....Pull this trade off.
Besides we need someone that can throw the ball over 10 yards.. Package Page and Brodie Croyle and pull the trigger..
by NFL season ticket holder on Aug 21, 2010 3:46 PM CDT reply actions
what, the passing game isn't bad enough for you that you want to make it WORSE? that AND destroy the character and integrity of the team ... no, please no
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Aug 21, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Much more eloquent than the reply I was formulating in my head
So I’ll just chime in with,
“+1”
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
I never liked him as a quarterback...or a person..its not about the dogs, its about his accuracy
look at how he made roddy white look like some bust. then he leaves and white is a star. never stays in the pocket
I would never want him on the chiefs
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
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