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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Kansas City Chiefs Front Seven Evaluation: Preseason Week One

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From the FanPosts  -Joel

Last week I made a feeler post detailing a statistic numbering system to keep track of the defensive front seven.  I've spent a good amount of time going over the first game of our preseason, and I've tabulated the KaloPhoenix Metric (KPM) for each defensive player that played in the first half of the Atlanta game.

The KPM is still a work in progress, so take the results with a bit of a grain of salt.  I appreciate criticism, especially those that have suggestions regarding the KPM.  Also, these results are meant to compare the players in similar positions, so differences between the defensive line and linebackers should be disregarded.

Let's get to it!

Star-divide

Some observations/analysis before the stats:

  • Vrabel only had one series, so his numbers will be low.
  • The Williams/Mays combo was on the field longer than they were last year.  It seemed Haley/Crennel were really testing them out.
  • Mays looked like he played far better than his score showed.  He played far better than I expected.
  • Speaking of guys who played better than expected, Edwards (although his numbers were low) played arguably better than he did all of last year.
  • Studie's pass coverage has improved quite a bit.
  • The linebacker KPM's are going to be low because the Falcons seemed far more content to run in the 1st half.
  • We only ran the 2-5 a couple of times, opting to stay in the 3-4 for some obvious passing downs.  This created more pressure, but really put the empasis on the inside linebackers inability to cover.
  • DJ/Williams seemed invisible throughout the game.  That might be due to their roles in the scheme, but it seemed to feature Mays and Belcher more.  It very well could have been the run heavy 1st half, as well.

So, we'll start with the defensive line:

Glenn Dorsey
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In his time on the field, he didn't have a negative KPM play.  He closed two gaps, grabbed five double teams, 1 bull rush success, and 1 tackle for loss.  He played very well, not letting a "free man" through the line, and didn't get thrown off the line.  He was able to stand his ground, claim double teams when he could, and turn runners toward the inside linebackers and safeties.  However, he didn't gain any pass rush on the limited pass plays he saw, and really didn't drive his man into the background to disrupt the quarterback.  It was a good foundation for him to build on.


Overall KPM:  17 Points

Tyson Jackson
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Tyson ended up having a pretty good day at the other starting defensive end spot.  He closed one gap, grabbed two double teams, two bull/swim successes with one solid penetration, one quarterback pressure, and 1 batted down pass.  However, he let two free o-linemen through him to the second level, and both resulted in big runs.  Like Dorsey, he didn't see anyone shove him off the line. I was most impressed by his ability to get by his man, something we didn't see last year.  He also was the best defensive lineman at getting his hands up during a pass play, evidenced by his pass breakup.  He also freed up Vrabel for the quarterback pressure in the first series.  He seems to have continued his form from the end of last year, and added some swim moves to his arsenal.


Overall KPM:  13 Points

Ron Edwards
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Ron actually surprised me a bit this game.  I've been one of his biggest critics, and I thought we were in for more of the same during the first drive.  However, he started to turn it around from the second drive onwards.  He closed one gap, and grabbed a surprising five double teams.  On the negative side, he let three free men through, and got shoved off the line two times.  That sounds bad, but trust me, it's better than a good portion of the games last year.  He seemed to do better with a little rest, whether it was through an offensive series or relief from Lokey.  He still wasn't good, and he's still not the answer, but it was an improvement against a pretty good offensive line.


Overall KPM:  -1 Point

Derek Lokey
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Lokey is our 3-4 pass rush nose tackle, it would seem.  It wasn't until Edwards came fully out of the game that he started playing against the run.  In the limited time he was full-time in the 1st half, the Falcons passed more than they ran.  If I had tabulated the second half figures, he would've graded out lower due to his lack of strong run support.  That said, he grabbed 2 double teams, sliced through his man and achieved two penetrations, one bull rush, and an impressive two quarterback pressures from the nose tackle spot.  He was shoved off the line twice towards the end of the first half.  Definitely showed strong on passing downs, but lacked on the run.


Overall KPM:  12 Points

Wallace Gilberry
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Surprisingly, Wallace wasn't on the field as much as I expected.  I thought we'd see him a little bit more of him on rotations, but like many positions, it seemed we were evaluating how these guys would do in all situations.  His only KPM recorded play in the first half was a tackle for loss that his blocker whiffed on.  Hopefully we'll see a little bit more of him in the coming weeks.


Overall KPM: 3 Points

Shaun Smith
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AP's "great nose tackle hope" over the offseason lined up as a defensive end every snap he took in the first half.  He really only saw a snap or two, and his only KPM recorded play was a double team.  He played decently in the second half, certainly better than Magee did when he came on.  He's fairly solidly the second string defensive end.

***

And now onto the linebacking corps:

Overall KPM: 2 Points

Mike Vrabel

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As stated above, Vrabel only saw one series, which happened to be our worst defensive series of the first half.  He had one quarterback pressure and strung another play along nicely for one tackle for no gain.  He did take an inside line once, leaving a giant gap on the outside.  He seemed to have a little extra speed behind him than I remembered from last year.  I hope that continues.

Overall KPM:  1 Point

Tamba Hali

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Tamba did what he ended the year doing last year:  getting behind the line of scrimmage and pressuring the quarterback.  He had three quarterback pressures, filled one gap, and forced an offensive penalty.  He did have a false start penalty and hit the wrong gap once on the negative side.  He didn't seem to be using swim or bull rush moves, simply relying on his speed and agility to get around his man.  The wrong gap happened in the first drive, and it allowed  a big run.  After that, he seemed to play a bit further off the line on run plays, resulting in tackles further away from the line of scrimmage.  Still, quarterback Pressures will eventually result in sacks and forced fumbles, so it's good to see him do well in that department.

Overall KPM:  6 Points

Demorrio Williams

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Demorrio was fairly invisible all day on Friday.  Again, a run heavy scheme plays more to the strongside inside linebacker's strengths, so it may have just been a product of the running offense/defense.  He stepped in a filled a gap, and he forced one checkdown with his coverage.  On the flip side, he did whiff on one tackle and allowed a 15 yard third down completion, albeit to the best tight end in the game, but it was poor coverage.  He seemed hesitant to step forward and get himself into the action, letting Mays do most of the gap filling, and sat back in the second level to make a late tackle.  It will be interesting to see how a pass-heavy offense affects Demorrio's KPM.

Overall KPM:  -2 Points

Corey Mays

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Corey is the primary example of how the KPM will work.  On my first watch, I thought he was just mediocre.  On the second, he seemed like he was everywhere.  When going through the KPM, he ended up pretty much in the middle.  He filled three gaps, the most of all the linebackers, forced a checkdown, and had a tackle for loss that was pretty much all his doing.  However, he did hit the wrong gap once, and allowed a 3rd and long pass to Tony (different from Demorrio's) that he was WAY out of position.  Still, the inside linebacker that I felt was our weakest last year was one of our best in this game.  Promising start in the run-stuffing department from Mays.

Overall KPM:  4 Points

Derrick Johnson

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DJ suffered from the same problems that Demorrio did:  he just didn't really seem to be there.  As this analysis is for first half grades, he got very limited snaps.  He forced one checkdown on Belcher's quarterback pressure with his coverage.  Other than that, he didn't see much of the action in the first half.

Overall KPM:  2 Points

Jovan Belcher

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Jovan came in for Mays with the second string, and continued the play that Mays started.  He filled one gap, had one quarterback pressure, and one tackle for loss.  He (like Vrabel) seemed far quicker than he did last year, especially on his blitz.  Rewatching it, an offensive lineman had a shot at him and the running back saw him coming, but neither could get to him.  His coverage was fairly decent as well, but didn't force anything of note.  It was definitely the strongside inside linebackers's day on Friday.

Overall KPM:   6 Points

Andy Studebaker

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Studebaker had himself a very, very nice day filling in for Vrabel.  On top of one forced checkdown (surprisingly good coverage), he had a quarterback pressure, a tackle for no gain, and a tackle for loss.  He showed strong run support skills against both their first and second teams, and when asked to back off into coverage, he held his ground against the backup tight ends and running backs.  His time on the field was reminiscent of his Pittsburgh game from last year.  Let's hope this next preseason game is better than the stinker he laid after the Steelers game.

Overall KPM:  8 Points

Cameron Sheffield

(Ed Note:  Poor guy doesn't have an NFL.com picture yet!)

Sheffield was only on the field a limited time in the 1st half, and he had his good and bad moments.  He did record a tackle for loss, but also gave up a pass completion with some poor coverage.  He seems to have the motor and enough speed to be successful in the outside linebacker position, but I noticed (in the second half) that his consistency was a bit lacking.  I'm sure the coaching staff will have noticed that as well.

Overall KPM:  1 Point

**************************

So, to tidy it all back up, the rankings for the two sections are shown below:

Defensive Line:

  1. Glenn Dorsey                       17
  2. Tyson Jackson                     13
  3. Derek Lokey                         12
  4. Wallace Gilberry                    3
  5. Shaun Smith                         2
  6. Ron Edwards                        -1

Linebackers:

  1. Andy Studebaker                  8
  2. Tamba Hali                           6
  3. Jovan Belcher                       6
  4. Corey Mays                         4
  5. Derrick Johnson                   2
  6. Mike Vrabel                         1
  7. Cameron Sheffield                1
  8. Demorrio Williams               -2

It would seem that given these numbers, the KPM favors the defensive line.  That very well may be the case.  However, I noticed a lot more of the "right" things done by our defensive line from last year.  They seem to be filling gaps a bit better.  They seem to be able to achieve a double team easier.  They also seem to be gaining penetration to pressure the quarterback or stop the running back significantly better than last year.  Meanwhile, the linebackers seemed to balance their positive plays out with negative ones (or they weren't on the field enough).  For instance, Corey Mays had the most positive KPM plays out of all the linebackers, but he also gave up a costly first down with his coverage and missed a gap that led to a big run.  I'm very interested to see what kind of numbers shake out when our guys are on the field for longer.  I have a feeling our defensive line will tire and not be as effective as they were in the first half, and our linebackers might have more of an impact as the game goes along.  This could balance it out, and I'll be watching week 3 of the preseason eagerly to see if it does.

Onto the players, I was most impressed by Jackson, Belcher, and Studebaker.  These three stuck out in areas I had critiqued them on last year. 

1.  Belcher looks faster, and he appears to be making decisions quicker instead of waiting for the play to come to him.  He's not quite as sure of a tackler as I'd like him to be in the strongside inside linebacker position, but he does cover better than Mays.  He looks like he's also put on some bulk, because he shed tackles easier than I saw out of him last year.

2.  Jackson seems to have picked up some DL moves, and generally seems more aware of what's going on around him.  He still let two offensive linemen by him that shouldn't have gotten by, but from the second series onward, he looked much stronger and quicker than last year.  I'll be quite shocked if he doesn't get a sack in the first half of the year based on his work rate and new moves. 

3.  Studebaker is a hard guy not to like.  His workrate is incredible.  Last year, he was able to make things happen with his workrate alone.  In this game, he looked like he was understanding things better, even calling out coverages at the line of scrimmage.  After the ball was snapped, he was rarely caught out of position.  He's still lacking some of the strength to power by the right tackle, but he's not going to let the right tackle pancake him either.  He's definitely looking like a younger Vrabel, playing smart and working hard.

************************

Alright guys, what do you think?  Any surprises on there?  Even though next game will probably be even less of the starting guys, I'm going to go ahead and do the 1st half, just to gather the information to see if we can draw comparisons between weeks one and two.  Hope you enjoyed it!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 155 comments  |  46 recs  | 

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Rec'd

thanks for taking the time to do this once again Kalo and really enjoyed it.

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 1:20 PM CDT reply actions  

agree, rec'd

Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt

by SDChief on Aug 17, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed!

Like the scientific approach. And it gives a clear and concise view of positives/negatives. You’ve made me a smarter fan. ;)

by BrevardCntyChieffan on Aug 17, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

most excellent, Kalo, a huge THANK YOU for the effort (and wrecked of course)

be interesting to see how those grades shake out and change, for better or worse, over the course of the season … personally, I think Joel should buy you lots of new electronic toys to work with

“Dear Joel …”

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Aug 17, 2010 1:21 PM CDT reply actions  

Rec’d. Great job on putting numbers to actions that are hard to define.

No real surprises, here. I noticed that Jackson seemed to at least hold his ground which is a good start and much better than last year. I think your metrics reinforced that idea for me. I also loved what Studebaker and Belcher did during the game and, again, you reinforced that for me which means we won’t have a problem replacing Vrabel next season.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 1:26 PM CDT reply actions  

I really hope it's that easy.

If Studie can keep this rate up, he’ll be a nice filler when the time comes. As it is, I need to see more game-to-game consistency. It seems he’s playing smarter, so hopefully that translates into doing the right things more often.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

hopefully alot of them

not just Studie can improve in game to game consistency.

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fully agreed.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully the consistency will come with playing time. I’m hoping that he gets a decent amount this season.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

he really has to see the field more this year

preseason is going to be a good gauge for him and some of the other defenders, but I would like to see Studie on a 60/40 split with Vrabel this year.

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree. It might not start off that way but towards the middle or end of the season I’m bettin he gets his shot.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he will

But on the flip side, I also noticed that Vrabel had a little more “spring” in his step than I remember (which you pointed out, Kalo).

Maybe he’s feeling the heat from a young clone.

Although to be fair, Studie’s more athletic than Vrabel ever was.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’s also early in the season. Hopefully it’ll last the entire season but I really doubt it.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point. He's probably got a lot more to give right now

But think of it this way…

Maybe he can keep playing with that kind of speed and energy for at least the first part of the season, and then as he’s starting to wear down Studie will be ready to step in by then.

We can dream right?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and it’s not that unrealistic of dream so it COULD come true.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's definitely more athletic.

So count me excited to see him start to pick up the “game smarts” that made Vrabel such a valuable asset in his prime.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

And an asset to us, today

Because I have to assume that Vrabel’s at least partly responsible for helping teach Studie how to get it done.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

All reports say that's true.

It’s hard not to think that Studie’s successes aren’t shared by Vrabel.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I liked his comments from today or yesterday about how knowing Crennel’s playbook allows him more time to teach other guys.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Form what I've read Studie's just soaking it up, too

You know, at the NFL level everyone is incredibly athletic. There’s a lot of equality there (except for a freak like CJ or something).

What makes a player stand out is the hard work and smarts. Can they (and will they) learn the game? And do they have someone to properly teach them?

We may have both in this case. Which could explain why Pioli waited until the 5th to take an OLB. He knew he had a starter.

Seriously, I can see Pioli and Haley asking Vrabel (who you know they have respect for) “Does this kid have it, or do we need to get someone else?”

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm feeling pretty good about our OLB's this year

We’ve got Hali, Vrabel, Studebaker and a couple young guys in Sheffield and Walters that were impressive against Atlanta, to my untrained eyes at least. Hopefully they can keep it up and we’ll have one less position to worry about.

by bh13 on Aug 17, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Still not enough pass rush from LOLB, imo.

And Studie and Vrabel would probably play ILB as well as or better than the current 4. We’re already seeing some of this in FACT, although not in name, when KC runs the nickel, and Vrabel is the lone ILB.

I’m watching Walters and Sheffield like a hawk, right now, because I think they give me hope that KC WILL get some scarey pressure on the left side of the line to match what Hali’s giving them on the right. Then maybe let one of the current ILBs go, with Mays the current fan non-favorite being pushed out (in essence) by adding Sheffield to the mix.

Looking at the current front 3, I think that defensive front 5 is going to need to cheat to the inside, and get more stout at the one remaining hole that isn’t already set (LOLB). They NEED to be able to blow up offensive fronts with their front 5, and they aren’t, yet. I think I’d like Stude and Vrabel BOTH more at LOLB, if the Chiefs actually had a classical 3-4 front 3, but they don’t. I want one or both of ’em on the field all day long, but not on the left flank, not right now.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Outstanding Kalo, thanks!

Good to know Dorsey looked strong I was guilty of not noticing the little things he does that don’t always get a lot of credit.. I was impressed with Studebaker too, I hope he sees the field more. Thanks again for the hard work.

"There is no charge for awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda

Kool Aid Rocks!!!!

by KCporkchop on Aug 17, 2010 1:28 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm Rec'ing this

And I haven’t even read it yet.

Because I already know how much work you put into it!

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2010 1:34 PM CDT reply actions  

awesome stuff man!

I appreciate you :)

if rhymes were valiums, i'd be comfortably numb
My Chiefs Illustrations | Tweet at me | Facebook Fanpage

by Chris Sembower on Aug 17, 2010 1:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Awesome post

Slightly tweaked a couple things (and sent you an email!) but I think we’re ready for our newest weekly series. Between you and Bewsaf, we’re pretty well covered.

by Joel Thorman on Aug 17, 2010 1:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Tweak away!

And yeah, although it’s time consuming, I found it fun, so I’m down for doing it every week!

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Kalo's got way too much *%&ing time on his hands"?

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

rec'd!

it’s got a nice ring to it! :)

by HeatherChiefsLvr on Aug 17, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Rising Phoenix: Chiefs Font 7

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Aug 17, 2010 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, NOW I've read it, Kalo

And I wish I could rec it again.

I think it’s great that you’ve thrown in “checkdowns” as a positive in coverage.

One thing that’s very interesting is that after watching the game most of us were ready to strangle our D-line. However, looking at the numbers (and the very very handy summaries you gave. Seriously, awesome), it would seem like it was just as much the fault of our LB’s.

I really, really hope that we can figure out what to do about our NT. It’s just so much weaker than our other two positions with Jackson now playing at least marginally decently.

All in all, I’m pleasantly surprised by the same guys you are. All of them (and Dorsey) playing well bodes very well for us.

Again, fantastic job Kalo.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2010 1:48 PM CDT reply actions  

I watched every defensive play repetitively

just to see how everyone played every down and you pretty much nailed it. Even down to tjax letting guys get to the second level. Dorsey was fairly impressive. I don’t have the patience to put it in numbers

by RamX21 on Aug 17, 2010 1:53 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

All in good time, brother!

Well, hopefully.

But seriously, using these metrics can you imagine what TJax’s score would’ve been this time last year, or even early in the regular season? About negative 20 would be my guess.

Progress.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

what if any can be said about Crennel's impact in all this?

I dont have all the games DVR’d but I would like to see the approach this season compared to last season so we can judge that progress.

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

You want to know what I like about Crennel?

He’s not Pendy.

Did you know the Cardinals (with minimal changes to their starting lineup on D) gave up an entire TOUCHDOWN less per game after Pendy left?

Some people doubt Crennel, but without a doubt he’s a better DC than Pendy.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

did not know that thanks for passing that along

I really hope now that we have “our” coaching staff in place they are going to turn this thing around. All these first round picks laying around here have to show up sometime and I think Crennel is the one to get the most out of them.

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

are you saying....

he is who we thought he was? Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

by whoadog on Aug 17, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I noticed it happened far less than I did last year.

Tyson would let 4-5 free men through a game (and Edwards was WAY more) towards the end of the year when he was playing better. The penetration ability that he showed me last Friday will result in more positive plays than 4-5 misses result in negative.

Now, 4-5 misses is still unacceptable. That was a good o-line. Let’s see him beat up on Tampa’s.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Speachless

Wow. Just Wow. This is truely professional grade stuf. Great post!

by zyker on Aug 17, 2010 1:55 PM CDT reply actions  

easy now

or you will have Kalo charging for content! :)

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still don't get Shaun Smith playing DE

There is a glaring hole at NT which he has experience playing…plus if he is the rotational guy, why the hell was Magee drafted?

by craig in calgary on Aug 17, 2010 2:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Magee might have been the worst DL player on the field last Friday.

I didn’t do the tabulation to see just how bad, but he’s not looking like a player who’s making this team right now.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I’m bettin he’s a practice squad guy at this point.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

he wont clear waivers

someone will snag him up

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe. But with the way he’s looked you never know. They’d have to put him on the roster and at this point I don’t know that teams would be willing to let someone else go for a guy that hasn’t looked good at all.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's no way Magee doesn't make the team

They’ve got a 3rd round pick invested in him & he’s got size/talent. This is a somewhat new system for him, so he’ll get more time to develop.

Predictions:
This year will be better

by jmcgoblue on Aug 17, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

im willing to wait it out with him

let Crennel get to him for a year but if he isn’t strongly pushing anyone next offseason I say we declare him Ryan Sims 2.0

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

except Sims was a 1st round pick

And a high one at that

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Aug 18, 2010 8:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I was referring to him clearing waivers, not making the team. If the active roster is the only choice, I bet he makes it.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

And he's not practice squad eligible

He’s already been on the roster for too many weeks

Predictions:
This year will be better

by jmcgoblue on Aug 17, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well forget that then.

If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen

by JComp11 on Aug 17, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

well then

looks like we are going to have to carry him. What a waste if he doesn’t pull his head out fast.

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I want to give him more time

I really do because of that whole 3 year waiting period, but Magee really isn’t showing anything to anyone.

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Greeeeeeeeeat

I know everyone has huge hopes for the 2010 draft class. It will be interesting to see what we think of them this time next year. 2009 draft looks pretty horrible IMO.

by craig in calgary on Aug 17, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dorsey said today that it takes time in a 3-4 Craig!

Patience is the key, ya know 40 years of patience!

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair

The 2009 draft didn’t look all that great at the time either. I’ve still got hope for some of them, but overall, I’m much more excited for this year’s class than I ever remember being for last year’s.

by bh13 on Aug 17, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

If either one or both of Lawrence and Washington emerge, '09 starts looking better.

If #71 emerges, in spite of all the current hate, ’09’s a home run.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I’m certainly not ready to write any of them off just yet, though I have my concerns about a few of them.

I thought Magee showed some flashes last year, so I’m hoping he’s just in a bit of a slump right now. I think Colin Brown could develop into a solid backup at the very least and Washington’s athleticism makes him an intriguing project.

O’Connell seemed to be off to a rough start last year and early camp this year, but it sounded like he was starting to come on a bit before he missed the Atlanta game. Lawrence has the speed and hopefully he’ll show enough to earn a spot. Williams is going to have a tough time making the team with all the RB depth, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not good.

by bh13 on Aug 18, 2010 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I totally agree

Magee has been a huge dissapointment from almost moment one. I think he will probably still make the roster though since we invested a third round pick on him just a year ago… we need to give him a little more time to pan out before tossing him aside.

"They should expect everything..." -Eric Berry

by Ben Martin on Aug 17, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lokey's score was a product of a situational pass rushing NT in the 1st half.

He’s not the answer in the run game. He would’ve been around Ron Edwards’ level if I graded out the second half. He just gets shoved off the ball a lot when the OL is moving forward.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Since I only graded out the first half, I'm not too worried about it.

If he’s able to come in and produce that well on passing downs, the scores should show it. However, if they leave him in on running downs and he plays like he did, his scores will plummet quickly.

It’s similar to Gilberry: not good against the run, but should have a pretty decent KPM as a situational pass rusher. As long as we take him as that and that alone, we shouldn’t have to worry about it.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is a good point though

A player who plays for 10 min in a game and gets two sacks should be higher rated than a player who played 30 min with the same result. Maybe a factor for the number of plays that they lined up for?

"They should expect everything..." -Eric Berry

by Ben Martin on Aug 17, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure!

That’s one you can nab off of NFL.com easily, so I’m cool with sticking that into the analysis. Maybe a KPM/snap figure?

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes!

That sounds very useful. Maybe even track both- KPM and KPM per snap… I mean why not? I think it would be insightful.

"They should expect everything..." -Eric Berry

by Ben Martin on Aug 17, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course.

Very little extra work to get that done.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's sounds like the way to use him then.

Because Edwards was on the field far too much last year.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Aug 17, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Ron looked better coming on and off the field as often as he was.

Not to say it wouldn’t deteriorate as the game went along, but he looked a bit fresher.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great stuff

You might want to try scoring a 85 Bears game vs “the no punt game” to see how the numbers come out, and if they need to be tweaked, just a suggestion. & Rec’d BTW

by cpa913 on Aug 17, 2010 2:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Really impressive stuff

I am a huge numbers guy so posts like this give me a major hard on. You definitely need to do this every week, its a great way to objectively track the progress of our players over the course of the season.

"They should expect everything..." -Eric Berry

by Ben Martin on Aug 17, 2010 2:06 PM CDT reply actions  

I wonder if Lokey will step up

and get an opportunity to play that way an entire game, if so it would appear we may have a NT finally! Time will tell lol.

Chiefs Will

by KCFanatic on Aug 17, 2010 2:06 PM CDT reply actions  

he was okay at NT

I hope he can get better and at least provide adequate relief for Edwards or win the job outright.

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would defintely like see our starting line up

Look like this by the end of the year

    Jackson Lokey. Dorsey
stude. Belcher. Johnson. Hali

I think that combo will not only give us a good chance to win now, but also be winning well into the future.

Check out my blog on software development:
http://www.turnleafdesign.com/

by Scaryclouds on Aug 17, 2010 2:11 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

looks nice

but I doubt that is the way they will run them out there come Monday Night.

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

all i know...

is that when Atlanta’s #1 were against our #1 they ran the ball right down our throats.

Turner average 7.2 yrds per carry

something was “major suck” and looked a lot like last year

not trying to dismiss the OP’s work but …….

by Home skillet on Aug 17, 2010 2:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Their #1's were on the field longer then one series.

Turner may have been out but it doesn’t change the fact that things improved but like Haley said after the game we need to come out ready to play right away not after 6-7 plays.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Aug 17, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

There is something to be said about the severity of the incident

Which these numbers don’t account for the difference between a 7 yard run missed gap, and a 50 yard TD run from a missed gap. But maybe the end result is not what they should be graded on so much as the action they commited to cause it.

"They should expect everything..." -Eric Berry

by Ben Martin on Aug 17, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

There are "TD allowed" negative points.

But yes, the goal is to focus more on the individual’s actions.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

And it was "major suck".

But after that, a big change occurred and we played better. Could’ve been just taking out Michael Turner, but our #1 DL and LB’s played well against their #1 OL.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

One thing that wasn't stated after the game enough and Kalo touched on it here....

Is that is an extremely good offensive line and a pretty good offense and probably a lock to have a top 5 rushing offense. It was a really good measuring stick.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Aug 17, 2010 2:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Right.

I think if we play like we did from the second series to the end of the half against Tampa, our defense could look mighty impressive. They’re not anywhere close to where Atlanta was.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

good point Generic and thanks for bringing it up again

this is a damn good measuring stick

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on Aug 17, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice work and thanks for your efforts, they do not go unappreciated!

Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!

I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.

by Lanier63 on Aug 17, 2010 2:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Thank you for putting this together. rec'd

I am way to lazy to argue with folks that didn’t believe me when I said Jackson looked ok against ATL…

This puts at least some evidence towards my limited observation. Here’s to hoping that Dorsey and Edwards continue to develop well… we have all seen players show up in preseason and disappear in the regular season. Hopefully those two continue to progress.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Aug 17, 2010 2:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Dorsey and Jackson I mean...

Edwards is just filling a roster spot until a true NT prospect that Pioli likes come along. Hopefully Lokey can step up to the plate.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Aug 17, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aw shucks... This post just knocked me out of rec'd FanPosts....

Bye bye FanPost vs. FanShot… may your spirit live on…

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Aug 17, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have thought and said that Our D did ok.

We held thier 1rst team to only 3 points. I know they ran on us, but thier offense is going to be a top 10 offense I think. Our D is improving and should be looking good towards bye in my opinion.

Smile, its the second best things you can do with your lips!

by fleetmarine on Aug 17, 2010 2:36 PM CDT reply actions  

We said this same thing last preseason...

And while I’m generally optimistic by nature, I will continue to hold low expectations for the D front 7. I’m waiting for them to consistently show me reason to be optimistic.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Aug 17, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Same here.

I’m hoping these tabulations will keep us informed who is/isn’t performing consistently, rather than just watching the games and knowing we are/aren’t doing well.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah,

Last year I remember a lot of good preseason LB play from Mays and Williams. Mays just kind of disappeared during the season. Jackson didn’t do much last year, which was kind of expected, but I remember KC fans generally feeling good about the D.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Aug 17, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Completely agree.

I had no idea what AP was last year. I am so happy I know about it now. I am a fantasy football buff, and my wife hates it. but now I am more interested in this website all week than fantasy football. I don’t know if she thinks of it as an improvement, ha. Im still on the computer or my PDA all day.

Smile, its the second best things you can do with your lips!

by fleetmarine on Aug 17, 2010 2:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Just tryin' to hold up to your standards, Bewsaf! =)

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great job, rec'd

...."I never said most of the things I said." - Yogi Berra

by Chef Jim on Aug 17, 2010 3:29 PM CDT reply actions  

RECognized...

as a great post. Outstanding views and analysis in breaking down the game for schleps like me who don’t really care to bother. I’ve watched the game a few times, but this really puts it into perspective. Again, great job and keep it coming. Posts liike these are what keeps me glued to AP, repetitively bashing the F5 key for more great updates…

2010 Chiefs are on the rise. This is the most excited I've been since 'Nam...

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 17, 2010 3:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Thnks

I finnaly signed up, to add my thoughts here and their – Nice rundown. i like!

by GermanCHIEFSfan on Aug 17, 2010 3:51 PM CDT reply actions  

How's one to make sense of this if we're not told what the points mean?

I guess more is better, but are we ever told that? And how are the points awarded? The commentary was appreciated, but without more insight into the scoring system, I’d scrap it altogether.

by Dagda on Aug 17, 2010 4:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks, Craig.

Next time I suppose I’ll make the link a little clearer than I did.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great work Kalo, per usual; if you could replace any two of our linebackers, just wondering who you’d give the axe and why ?? I"m beginning to think that Demorrio ain’t gonna make it this yr (on our squad, at least), but I’d like your take on it.

by chiefsfan4ever on Aug 17, 2010 4:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Without question, our ILB's.

Sure, they’re not getting a whole lot of help from the guys in front of them, but none of them really seem to be able to play “both ways”, meaning they’re not able to stop the run effectively AND cover the pass. It would seem that they’re more specialized in their approaches to the ILB spot. That said, we may have seen Romeo utilizing that a little better. Mays and Belcher seemed to be the ones really getting into the gaps and fighting the blockers, whereas DJ and Demorrio laid back as the “second line of defense”.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Crennel answers the pressure-the-QB issue, they'll ask too much of the ILBs less often.

And I’m encouraged by how the various front 5 combos are improving in terms of pressure. Vrabel, in particular, appeared much more active in the pass rush (which, again, he said he was going to work on). By taking a step forward in the pressure department, the ILBs suddenly have less territory to cover.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 17, 2010 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

love it. this could have the makings of something big

by kcpablo on Aug 17, 2010 4:44 PM CDT reply actions  

Great post

I wonder how these numbers stack up to last years preseason game 1 numbers for the same players

by big cheet on Aug 17, 2010 4:51 PM CDT reply actions  

Good Job Bro

Keep up the good work…please.

My sex addiction therapy was going well...till my therapist shows up with a gallon of canola oil and a monkey trained to work a video camera...

by WorldChampSpurs on Aug 17, 2010 5:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Thx, KP!

My own unscientific measure put Jax a bit lower and Magee a bit higher.

I tend to grade guys like Lokey and Magee higher, even when they’re pushed off the line, if it takes two or more guys to do it, and it leaves someone else free to make the play. What I’m intolerant of is seeing Jackson single-blocked by a guard and letting the past him. Seemed almost like Jax is more about the guy blocking him than the play, itself. The blocker is an obstacle, not the goal. To be fair, the play I’m harping about involved an outside-the-pads hold.

I disagree on the “D wearing down” claim. I think the Chiefs left Dorsey and Jackson in a lot longer in the 2nd half than we’re likely to see in regulation. It looked to me like they were trying to see what Lokey could give them, in particular.

Glad that you graded Mays higher than most here would’ve. I don’t have a dog in that fight, but I do have sentimental reasons for liking Mays, and I STILL think that if the d-line will do more to resolve issues in the middle more decisively that Mays will be solid for the Chiefs. I think there’s still some adjusting taking place, especially in regard to expectations of the safety(ies). Personally, I think Mays is a good mix of stout and quickness, who STILL might emerge, as the list of certainties grows and the list of uncertainties shrinks, and I firmly believe that d-line and secondary improvements are going to provide that. I’m just not sure how much the d-line will eventually be providing.

I still see ILB as a work in progress that’s coming along, but is also dependent on further developments by the other position groups, which are currently in flux. We still don’t know who the starting d-line or safeties are going to be (at least I don’t), and there’s still a lot of team chemistry to work out, as the new faces and old faces learn what to expect from each other.

From the later stuff, on which you haven’t reported, there are some fascinating prospects farther down the list. I think Washington’s stock is rising (and KC needs a freak athlete or two to emerge as PLAYERS). I want to see Sheffield on the field at the same time as Hali. I think he’ll bring more pressure than ‘most anyone else I saw playing on the left side Friday night. I’d rather see the Chiefs be dominant in that respect, and would prefer to address LBs in coverage by minimizing the time and distance they have to cover. We know who our main 4 ILBs are, and the BIG gains in defensive excellence will be made by structuring the defense around them, accordingly, although it MIGHT just be achieved by running a helluva lot more nickel (even on 1st and 2nd down), at the expense of one (or 2) of those ILBs. Again, I really like going thumper at the OLB and giving Studie and Vrabel extra minutes as the lone ILB deciding for himself how to help the DBs in the pattern (or blitzing – Chiefs haven’t done a whole lot to set UP Vrabel or Studie to BE the guy who gets to come free up the gut on the delayed blitz, and both these guys are cagey enough to decide for themselves when to attack and when to take away passing lanes from the QB in zone, which gives them an extra step from the anticipation and proper intention factors).

I think the film from this first game is going to do KC a heckuva lot more good than ATL. I can’t wait to see who lines up and when in the next game, and see how they do. In this next game, as in the last, I think the most interesting series on defense will be the second one. They held T-Jax and Dorsey constant most of the first half. I wonder if they’ll swap out their DEs earlier this time.

I kind of want to see T-Jax get humbled by an early dose of Magee or Gilberry. I’m not saying he did poorly, but, like Bill Maas, I get this suspicion he’s not playing up to his abilities. As a runt, I may be misjudging how hard the big man is trying, but I’ll see a flash on one play and then wonder why the guy who showed me X on one play doesn’t show X on another. Some call this “taking plays off.” My take on Jackson’s character is that this is not the case, and he’s still struggling to process what his eyes are telling him.

I hope no one is insulted by the analogy, especially T-Jax, who could snap me in twain with an incautious pat on the back, but I keep thinking of a good Golden or Labrador Retriever. You shake your head at his idiot puppy blunders, and then all of a sudden, right around his 3rd birthday, you realize he understands English as well as you do, and is one of the smartest dogs you ever owned. Wasn’t it a Golden Retriever who got the beer outta the fridge in the old ?Bud? commercial? Smart enough to help and big enough to actually do some of the chores.

That’s kind of how I feel about T-Jax. Judging from the comments of others, it appears he’s “growing a brain.” That’s encouraging. At this point, maybe he ought to be practicing against more “hogs.” O’Call and Lilja might not be preparing him as well as one would hope, and he may only be getting these learning opportunities under the glare of the cameras.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 17, 2010 5:37 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

Some quick hit responses:

I want Studie/Vrabel alongside Mays/Belcher/DJ/Demorrio as well. I’d love to see that with Sheffield/Walters/Gilberry at that other OLB every once in awhile. If we ask them to stay home and play coverage, we’re alright. If we blitz Studie/Vrabel, I too feel confident that they’ll find the route through the OL and to the QB. It actually gets me excited to think about those possibilities.

T-Jax has made steady improvement since Pleasant came along. I can’t disagree with the consistency thing. Even the KPM numbers show that: great penetration and a batted ball followed up by a “free man” scenario. I like that he’s not seeing the guy in front of him as the “goal” in some scenarios, but like you, I worry that will haunt him (and more specifically, our ILB’s) in the future.

I’m just so skeptical on Mays. I want him to be good, because he’s the one in our ILB’s that really has that “thumper” mentality. The rest seem content to arm tackle…he seems to want to lay the hitstick. That’s good and bad, but if Crennel is doing what I think he’s doing regarding the WILB, I think Mays can lay himself out there and count on the WILB to clean up if he doesn’t pop the RB. He was so incredibly inconsistent last year, though…it’s frustrating to watch one glimmer of hope surrounded by a pile of crap.

I just recall Magee getting steamrolled repeatedly. I may have to rewatch the second half and really focus on him.

Lokey does seem to pull the double, but he doesn’t seem to stand his ground well enough. I see your point about that freeing up a man, but I want him to be able to anchor and hold himself close to the LoS rather than 3-4 yards away from it.

T-Jax needs to have someone rough him up a bit. I don’t think O’Callaghan and Lilja have that mean streak to put him in his place. I’m hoping Pleasant can.

In all, Tampa should show us if our front seven can overrun an offensive line that is more than likely below average. If we can show up and really take it to ‘em, I’ll have a lot more confidence going into the season.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very good post, rec'd

Thanks for the post and all the analysis. I am not a defensive guru but I tend to trust my eyes some when it comes to those guys. I felt the same way about Mays that you have stated and I couldn’t explain it as well as you did, but he did seem to be all over the place as you say. He left the same impression on me last year during preseason as well. Then as the season progressed he just disappeared.

I really enjoy getting the benefit of these kinds of posts. If nothing else, they sure make me feel as if I know better what is going on. Thanks Kalo. Great stuff.

"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"

by Aiken_Drum on Aug 17, 2010 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

If things go the way I HOPE, Mays is a likely casualty of the Sheffield pick, and Vrabel/Stude patrol the middle.

But I’m not as critical of Mays, even so.

I’ll re-wind the 2nd half, too (coming up on halftime in the latest run-through). They’re playing against scrubs at that point, but I thought Magee was looking active and stout.

Again, I’m not as uptight about players being driven by doubleteams, on the principle that three times two is 6, and my defense is enjoying an 8-to-5 power play. So draw the double and beat the single is what I’m looking for. But also, just observing quickness as objectively as possible, I’m (surprisingly) encouraged by what I’m seeing from Lokey, Gilberry, Magee and Gales.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damn...

that could have been a FanPost in itself. Good thoughts though, Mills. And I can explain TJax growing a brain prior to this season….

“I believe Coach said it was this way to find a brain”

2010 Chiefs are on the rise. This is the most excited I've been since 'Nam...

by kcchiefsfan72 on Aug 17, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

that reminds me of the Somewhere over Dewayne Bowe picture

this should be the most exciting Chiefs team in years! Most major needs filled with playmakers, and the league's best coaching staff... 10-6 a possibility?

by stagdsp on Aug 17, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heh. I'd rather write long comments than take responsibility for a FanPost.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 17, 2010 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Guys

Mills writes posts when he comments. Rec Mr. Mills

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 17, 2010 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Better to say too much in a comment than to waste space with a 'Post.

At least in the comments, you can ‘z’ right on by, if you don’t want to wade thru my shit.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

After watching the game

I came away with the feeling that Lokey could be a pretty good DE for us

by RamX21 on Aug 17, 2010 6:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Great job Kalo

Rec’d…here’s to quantifiable data!!!

by hornetchiefsfan on Aug 17, 2010 7:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Kalo

A Question.

Is the NFL going to specialist at most positions or is that just the Chiefs due to the roster they have now?

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 17, 2010 7:31 PM CDT reply actions  

For the most part, it's our roster.

Teams definitely have pass rush specialists, but good defenses don’t need to have their “scheme” guys on the field in specific situations. Ideally, you’d be able to stay in your 3-4 for all three downs, no matter the yardage.

However, NE was a scheme switcher until Crennel, so it’s not a foreign concept for him.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks

I wasn’t sure if it was the new NFL or just the Chiefs personnel. obviously we want everydown talent and are working toward that as quickly as we can!

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 17, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

This applies to my ranting on pressure from the front 5.

You really want your D to be able to dictate to the offense as much as possible, so the vanilla 5-man rush needs to create serious problems for the opposing offense. If your plain Jane is scarey, folks will compare you to Dick Lebeau, when you mix in those zone blitzes.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely, Mills.

When they can’t run OR pass on the same front seven, it takes the guesswork out of the DC job…and allows the DC to run more intricate blitz schemes and gap shoots.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 18, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

great work, Kalo!

Just like Bewsaf, your notes are an excellent complement. I like your emphasis on having DL keep blockers off the linebackers. Appreciate your effort.

by sunny D on Aug 17, 2010 8:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Rec'd, excellent work!

Now who will do similar grades for the offensive line?

by Offense of the 70s on Aug 17, 2010 8:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Bewsaf did already

the next most rec’d at present

Ninja Ass

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 17, 2010 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you

Kalo for taking the time to do all this. I am curious…..do you think Lokey might be able to handle full-time duties or has Edwards improved enough to fend him off and keep him at back-up duty? It would seem…just going by your point totals that Lokey may be the best we have. I think that he should at least get a look in the next game with the first string.

by KCChiefsfan75 on Aug 17, 2010 10:03 PM CDT reply actions  

Based on this game, neither.

Remember, Lokey was only in on passing downs for most of the 1st half. In the second, when playing against the run, he didn’t hold up well…and that was against their 3rd string OL.

Both weren’t good…but an easier Tampa OL might give them some confidence and might show something of what they’ve got. I worry about their ability to hold it down against the upper half of the league, though.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Memory check: 2nd series on defense, Lokey is in there on 1st and 2nd, too.

Still, I would answer KCChiefsfan75 with “neither,” also. I think the Chiefs are looking for at least a journeyman-level rotation at NT, while leaving Jackson and Dorsey in there. Any series that isn’t a 3-and-out, I can see Lokey coming in to give Edwards a blow at some point.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll run back and look.

If I mixed up #95 and #99, I’ll be sure to fix it.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 18, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not in the first half.

These are only first half stats.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really looked like good push from the left side with Walters.

Sheffield appeared to get his snaps in place of Hali, but I can see HIM making some noise from that LOLB spot, maybe in a rotation with #97. It’d take an assignment re-tool, though. Even though Walters dropped into coverage a couple times (and Sheffield did, too), neither of these guys looks as convincing in coverage as Vrabel/Stude. But I’d trade the loss of coverage for the gain in pressure.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Excellent work ethic on your part

This is exactly the type of insight and analysis I’ve wanted. Thank you KP!

by TXChiefan on Aug 17, 2010 10:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Great work Kalo

Your quantitative break down coincides very close to my casual observation. I thought TJax had a good game but allowed himself to get held. You can’t rely on the ref to catch that. Isn’t that why we had master Kim come in to school these guy in keeping the o line’s hands off them? I was not at all disappointed in linear launching Mays. I actually saw the guy remain in control and make a lateral tackle. Can’t say I saw much if any of that last year. I look forward to your next analysis.

Left Tackle is Brandon Albert's natural position.

by Idahochief on Aug 17, 2010 10:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

He still blew some of the same types of plays he did last year, though. Definitely an improvement. It speaks to his deficiencies from last year that him stringing the RB out and making the TFL gets us excited about him for this year. Then again, with our ILB play last year, maybe it’s not that sad.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's where I like him best, followed by shooting the inside gap on the blitz.

Imagine how much more we’d like Mays if the front 3 forced everything outside, and all Mays had to do was fill to the edge against the run. Just control the middle from end-to-end (literally), even if you have to cheat inside a little, with journeymen manning the nose. Then you can plug-and-play those ILBs the way you want.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

It would help me a lot to see where we are if you...

were to put out these grades on one of the better defenses in the league – say Baltimore. Then I’d have some kind of idea where our guys stand up in the league rather than just a relative measure of how they’re developing. Thanks for doing this Joel!

by CurtMerzFan on Aug 17, 2010 10:58 PM CDT reply actions  

I might do a comparative post on our bye week after I've established a trend amongst our guys.

As of right now, I’m planning on using it to show improvements amongst our guys from game to game…or as the case may be: deficiencies from game to game.

And I’d be interested to see if Joel wanted to put the time into doing this. This took significantly longer than I expected, so if he wanted to hook me up…=)

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Aug 17, 2010 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

you make some decent points

wrecked

"The receivers are an integral part of the passing game." - Hank Stram

by kcfansinceakid on Aug 18, 2010 12:45 AM CDT reply actions  

It takes a true football fan.

To come up w/ some of this stuff. I laughed at one point at some of the terminalogy. Very good stuff keep it up. Very deserving of a rec.

by Eric's berries on Aug 18, 2010 2:10 AM CDT reply actions  

Heres what i think;

We are better,but we still have a looooooooong way to go. As long as we keep getting better i dont see how anyone can complain.

by Eric's berries on Aug 18, 2010 2:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Re-wind on the 2nd half (3rd quarter so far).

Can’t yet trust Arenas on an island. Garrett Brown wasn’t abysmal. Sheffield dropped into coverage a lot more often than I expected. Magee DID get driven on at least one single-block situation.

Front 7 were actually getting good pressure, but there was always someone wide open down the field. Just saw Magee split the doubleteam and make the run-stuff.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 1:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Sheffield with the blocked pass on 2nd down after the Palko INT.

1224 to go in the 4th.

"I ain't lyin' 'bout nothin'."
"Oh? So what exactly are you lying about?"

by hmills110 on Aug 18, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

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