Poll: What Will Be The Best Chiefs Training Camp Position Battle?
by Joel Thorman on Jun 20, 2010 12:08 PM CDT
in 2010 Kansas City Chiefs Season
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PrintAs we prepare to enter the really slow period of the offseason, I wanted to see what you all think will be the best training camp battle this year. I've attached a poll, the results of which I will use to determine which battles we focus on the most.
Here are a few of the biggest ones I see moving forward:
Tight end: Leonard Pope vs. Tony Moeaki
Remember that the Chiefs really like Leonard Pope. He has a connection with Todd Haley and knows the Chiefs offense now that he's been around for a while. Tony Moeaki, on the other hand, is a new guy who didn't participate much in the early goings of the Chiefs offseason. However, he really came on strong toward the end of OTAs.
I think this will be my vote for the best training camp battle.
Nose tackle: Ron Edwards vs. Shaun Smith
If I had to guess now, I'd say this isn't much of a battle but I'm hoping Shaun Smith comes along a little more in the next six weeks. He had his best season under Romeo Crennel so there's some hope he'll see time this year. Ron Edwards didn't light the world on fire last year but was solid. He's a veteran and, at the very least, you know what you're getting with him.
This is arguably the most important position on the Chiefs roster.
Free safety: Jon McGraw vs. Kendrick Lewis
I think ultimately Jon McGraw will win this one -- at least to start the season -- but Kendrick Lewis will give him a run for his money. McGraw, like Edwards, is a veteran who gives you a known. Lewis, on the other hand, is possibly the future.
The wildcard in all of this would be how the Jarrad Page situation works itself out.
Inside linebacker: Demorrio Williams/Corey Mays vs. Derrick Johnson/Jovan Belcher
I know what the fans think about this one: They want DJ and Jovan Belcher. DJ represents potential and Belcher is a feel-good story coming to the Chiefs as an undrafted free agent last year. But there's a reason Demorrio Williams and Corey Mays started much of last season.
The results of this battle will speak to the future of the Chiefs linebacker corps.
Center: Rudy Niswanger vs. Casey Wiegmann
It'd make for a good story line if Casey Wiegmann came in as a starter and played out the season to end his career as a Chief (if he retires at the end of the year). He represents the Chiefs offensive line of the glory days but how much has his age hurt him? Rudy Niswanger is a coach's favorite, I think, because he's another McGraw-like player that busts his butt to stay on the field.
The talent level might not be there for Niswanger, but he's the type of player the Chiefs like.
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I think with the developments concerning Page...
Free Safety becomes the biggest glaring job opening. I’m not really liking our options at this point if Page doesn’t come back. (which he probably won’t)
I think Ron Edwards will still be our starter at NT. I think Smith is as good as him and, if we can have one of those two guys fresh all the time, we will be solid there. Ron Edwards was very stout early in games last year. It was after he started getting tired when he started to look bad.
I think the LBs will continue to rotate like last year. DJ and Belcher will come in on passing downs and zone blitz situations.
I think Moeaki and Pope will be our two TEs and eventually, Cottam will come in as a pass catcher and take the job from Pope.
Casey Weigman will be our starting Center this year without question. I don’t think Rudy is good enough to take the job from him.
It's got to be ILB.
With Derrick Johnson coming out to prove a point and the supposed emergence of Jovan Belcher, it’s clear that incumbents Corey Mays and Tamba Hali are going to have to step it up. Add in Mike Vrabel lining up there on occasion and this is an exciting battle.
Next is TE. As a Hawkeye fan, I’ve seen what Tony Moeaki can do. He’s not as athletic as Tony G, but he has great hands and is an outstanding blocker. He could very well make a run at offensive rookie of the year if he can earn that starting role.
After that I don’t think it’s so much a competition of what the better battle is as much it would be the most important or interesting.
Free Safety is a position that worries me a lot this year. The battle is essentially between a rookie, a pair of guys that have made their names in special teams, and DeJuan Morgan.
Center could be a tight battle because Wiegmann is getting old and we all know what to expect from Niswanger.
Nose Tackle I wonder about because it seems like the team is happy with Ron Edwards for 2 out of 3 plays. Shaun Smith looks to be more of a rotation guy.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 20, 2010 12:33 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I meant Demorrio WIlliams, not Tamba Hali.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 20, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree... but needed to add WR.
Jovan Belcher has hit the weights extremely hard this offseason, and appears to have the physical tools to jump up to the next level. As a result I believe Mays, and Williams are going to need to step it up if they are going to continue to start for the Chiefs. It is going to take more than a nice hit on Farve to guarantee a spot on this team this year. Derrick Johnson ended the season with a note saying I’m ready to be a playmaker and start. He has also continued this message in the off season, by saying he WANTS to be a starter. Granted this is essential 2 positions, but it is where I see the greatest competition.
The next greatest competition is going to be the Tight End position… Brad Cottam and Tony Moeaki are going to push each other pretty hard. Leonard Pope will continue to see time. Having these 3 pushing each other is going to be very good for the Chiefs, especially if they find themselves in 3rd and short.
A very close 2nd I believe is going be between Dexter McCluster and Jerheme Urban are going to push each other. This is probably the most important competition on offense that needs to occur. All of those dropped passes last year need to become ancient history. If we can get some 3rd and long conversions by these guys we should see some big plays occuring.
Center I don’t see as much of a battle. It appears that Casey Weigman is more of a mentor to Rudy Niswanger. If Weigman is healthy he will be our starter this year. Rudy’s missnaps must never happen again and for that reason he won’t be snapping the ball this year.
NT is probably the position that we need the most compettion… but is the position where we have the least amount of competition. If Shaun Smith can at least give Ron Edwards a bit of a break… hopefully we see vast improvement. I’m not holding my breathe.
Free Safety I don’t see much competition either, but there certainly needs to be, and maybe when practices start back up we will see more competition. From OTA’s it appears that Lewis is playing out there with heart, while Jon McGraw is more out there to mentoring Berry. Barring what happens with Page… I believe McGraw will start, and eventually Lewis will take the job away from him.
Go Chiefs!!!!
IMO, you're comparing apples and oranges in some cases.
I don’t think McCluster and Urban are competing head-to-head, for instance. To me, these guys aren’t directly comparable, and neither are Moeaki and Cottam.
I don’t see McCluster competing head-to-head with anyone, unless it’s Lance Long, and even if McCluster wins that battle, hands-down, I can see KC wanting to keep somebody small and quick in the wings to play the slot behind McCluster.
Make sense, ravenhawk? Taken by two’s, I can see Pope and Cottam as similar types of players, of a player “type” the Chiefs are likely to want 2 they can call on, so they won’t have to cut their (limited) playbook significantly, just because one of ‘em can’t start on a given Sunday.
I think one of the themes of the 2010 offense is a fairly small number of plays out of a wide variety of formations. To get the most out of this theme, they can’t afford to count on any one starter; rather, they want to have another guy to step up and perform similar functions, in emergency. For instance, if they intend to use a TE as H-Back fairly often, then they probably want to keep O’Connell AND Moeaki on the active roster.
There’ll still be position battles for who’s first on the field, but I’m looking for a team that can be successful with the starters they DO have, and can survive adversity if somebody (heaven forbid) goes down hurt.
From that perspective, my main concerns are depth at offensive tackle and defensive end, where a lot hinges on the development of current backups (not to mention continued development of current starters).
I wouldn't say that I'm comparing 'apples to oranges' here.
All of the players that I have mentioned (barring us upgrading talent) will be on the team. My comparisons were from whom I see each other pushing each other. I could be wrong, and I like what Pope brings to the table, but I don’t see him as being as competitive as the other Moeaki, and Cottam. Same with McCluster, and Urban… they are competing to see whom gets more playing time. Long is one tough guy… if he can make the team. I just don’t see Long pushing McCluster or Urban.
For me the major theme is going to be versatility in the offense… I to believe that we will be running many similar plays where the formations change. So they will have a capable guy that can backup someone that gets injured, yet still have the players that can open up the offense.
Development of the defensive line (as a whole) definitely needs to occur as does backups at the OT positions.
Go Chiefs!!!!
Yeppers.
Beauty is all in the eye of the beholder, and our only difference of opinion, here, is how we view the team cross-section. A smart GM might be taking BOTH our slicing methods into account.
Like double integrals over a given surface, you get the same volume, whether you slice the one way and then the other, or vice versa.
Obviously, when I look at it, I’m looking at the battle between guys of similar measurables, with more emphasis on H-back potential, when it comes to TE position. But I can definitely see that the guy who rates higher as combined blocker-and-receiver will get “the nod,” whatever THAT means. :o)
Also... I'm extremely interested in how Alex Magee comes along this year.
I’m ignoring rookies with this, but I expect him to come along moreso than any other player on defense. Tyson Jackson is also a high expectation, but I’m expecting Magee to make a bigger jump in play mainly because he is a backup player.
Go Chiefs!!!!
you know, I bet Page, like DJ, has also said "I want to be a starter"
and we all know what happens when a player speaks his mind …
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yeppers. Magee is a "player of interest" related to the current crime scene.
Dangit! Got a crime show in the background while I’m on AP. Need to turn off the t.v. and crank up some good blues.
good POV, mills ... very good reasoning
and might well be our best shot at a successful season: not worry who starts, but who plays …
OLine depth could be an issue if Brown doesn’t come along from last year’s injury, DLine overall is still, worrisome (I don’t see Smith as much of an upgrade, if any) and DLine is tough to play in a 3-4 as it is
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
An alternate view of TE and team-building.
We’re dissin’ O’Connell, right now, but think in terms of “type players in depth,” and you see Pope and Cottam as our NBA ball at its highest point (red zone/3rd down) guys, while O’Connell and Moeaki are versatility guys, both at 6’3’’ and about 250. Haley dialed-up that 2 FB formation out of the double TE package, last year
A pattern that seems to be crystallizing from the personnel strategy of Pioli is going 2-deep in guys who share certain characteristics. I think it was stagdsp who suggested that the Chiefs might carry 4 TEs and Slate goes to PS this year. The fact that your backup TEs typically make good ST players supports this.
I think in the TE situation (and others), we’re thinking too much in terms of who starts and who doesn’t, when the strategy by the organization may involve lots of players splitting time, depending on matchups and situations. Even so, the better guy will likely get most of the minutes. What’s different about MY thinking on this is that, with far greater attention being paid to depth (which is largely why KC is still under the radar), they’re looking for consistency, and that flows from a team concept that doesn’t go KAPUT when one guy gets injured.
How many times have we seen KC go down in flames because they were paper-thin and lost the one guy? All too many, to MY mind. How many times have we seen KC go down in flames because the opposition had workable solutions to the one or two stars (like Tony G), and the Chiefs either didn’t have or didn’t prepare to utilize mismatches elsewhere on a week-in, week-out basis?
The way the current Chiefs are being built, maybe nobody stands out, but today at slot, tomorrow at split-end, last week in the run, there’s always a weakness they can exploit, with any number of different guys capable of having a big game. Maybe O’Connell is in there ‘most all day as a blocker and garners a few EASY completions, because he’s not been a huge factor in the passing game.
Just speculatin’.
I agree with mills
that what we will be looking at is an offense that continues to run despite injuries and challenges. The best blue print that we have to compare with at this point is the ‘01-’04 Patriots. It was noteable because of all the journeyman, unknowns (most still that way today) that kept it running. Most of the time on passes, Brady was just looking for blue shirts not NAMES.
Look at the sheer NUMBER of players at positions that we can name off the top of our heads right now, rather than having to check the roster. That is because of the exposure of these players during workouts and summer camps both last year and this year.
Camp this year, will really show us where our weaknesses are. The positions where there is high churn in players will be the ones that need the most work. I can already believe that it’s gonna be that ILB again. I don’t think DJ is a lock for the job, but we will have to wait and see.
It ain't exactly "agree with mills" and therefore "disagree with somebody else," either.
I HOPE that camp “will really show us where our weaknesses are.” Last year, complementary weaknesses on BOTH sides of the ball led to some nasty surprises, at least for THIS KC fan, if not the KC coaching staff. We kinda saw the writing on the wall with the head-shaking visit from Old Man Haley to Chiefs training camp, last year, but some of us were optimistic that Haley could come up with a few steals and mostly defend home turf, even with the identifiable problems.
If by “churn” you mean journeyman FA and UDFA, then yeah. But even there, they didn’t add a lot of new names. Seems more like wait-and-see what the churning from LAST year will produce. Personally, I like all our LBs more than most, here. And I think that KC has done a fair amount to free one or two of ‘em up to pin their ears back and RUN than they could, last year. A handful of keys, rather than buckets full. I reckon the D in which KC’s LBs ought to be playing in 2010 more closely resembles the D they drew up on paper LAST summer, than the one in which they played last fall.
Depending on what they get from Smith ‘n’ Edwards at NT and how much the revamped secondary brings to the table, I can see Pioli being less or more aggressive at LB on the waiver wire, when roster cuts begin. Still making allowances until a sure-thing STUD NT is acquired, but ILB ought to be more under a microscope than last year. I doubt it, but it’s possible that 2011 will be the FIRST time you’ll see me on the “Draft the stud LB” bandwagon, if Chiefs notch a big “FAIL” on D.
For some reason I am really psyched about that free safety battle
It’s really fun to watch young safeties play. Even if they’re not that good.
I keep coming back in my mind to Arenas as a safety.
Smart guy, good tackler, upper body like a brick shithouse. While he may have an inside track on nickel back, I can easily see the Chiefs wanting to keeping this guy on the field for all 3 downs, by midseason or sooner. Having a S on the field who can come up and do some 1-on-1 coverage whose name is NOT Eric Berry would make the KC D-calls VERY unpredictable.
Just to add to that thought
Having Washington at safety on one play, Arenas at safety right after the snap Washington drops back deep and Arenas goes 1 on 1 coverage with the wr, or the other way around
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 20, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what I'm thinking.
There’s also blitzing off the edge to throw in there. More speed at safety means you can mask the intention to blitz off the edge and rotate coverage to the blitzer’s side, since QBs train to throw the ball to the “abandoned” receiver when that pesky DB is coming at him off the edge. That’s pick-6 territory.
Lots of options from AP
too bad our input means nothing ; )
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 20, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
hmills is really Todd Haley
You didn’t know?
by Joel Thorman on Jun 20, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I always thought he was a lowly ball boy
FML
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 20, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Too funny, Joel.
But I CAN see a savvy HC at least having a staffer combing the web for ideas, and using AP as an efficient way to do so. Guys like me have MUCH greater interest in being creative than in being RIGHT all the durn time. That CAN be helpful to someone who wants to innovate.
But a million monkeys typing at random have a 99.9…% probability of recreating all of Shakespeare’s plays, if you give them an infinite amount of time to do it. And who has the time to wait, let alone FIND them, buried in all that crap?
I like safety's that hit at the center of gravity...
that is what Arenas does… so I wouldn’t be upset in the least.
Go Chiefs!!!!
Hmmm. I expected to get cut off at the knees, but it appears that a few of us think alike on this.
Even a busted clock is right twice a day.
hmmmm
thats a tough one, I am stoked to see the safety spot opposite berry…I am excited to see if Belcher can take an ILB spot…KR is interesting…the secondary in general will be one to watch with the 4th corner spot/5th. Tight End…
can’t really pick one honestly, can’t wait
Fav 6 Fighters:Spider Silva,Mayhem,Jon Jones,Aoki,KJ Noons/King Mo
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
I was sure that Berry was best suited to be playing at Free Safety and that the competitions would be at Strong Saftey which...
is why I voted Other in the poll.
Now I’m wondering why seemingly, EVERYONE, is assuming that he will be Strong Saftey, and thinking that I was missing something in terms of my football knowledge, and my impressions of Eric Berry’s ability and position fit, so I researched the difference of the two positions on the net, and my findings are below.
There is a difference between free safety and strong safety.
Free Safety is normally more quicker, has better range and field awareness, and usually plays off the line of scrimmage as the deep defender or gaurding a WR in passing situations. Players like Darren Sharper, Ed Reed, and Brian Dawkins are the perfect examples of how free safeties play in the nfl. (Vote for Berry)
Strong Safeties are the more physical and stronger of the safety tandem. Unless he is really active in passing downs, normally he will come up close to the line of scrimmage on the strong side of the play, and act as the 8th defender in the box. This is to give the defense an advantage against the running plays, and in passing downs, he is normally asked to play either a middle zone, man to man on a TE or RB, or blitz depending on the play.
Guys like Rodney Harrison, Roy Williams, Troy Polamalu and John Lynch exemplify how Strong Safeties should play. (Another vote for Berry)
So really it comes down to what skills you have and what you like to do. If your quick, smart and sneaky enough to be a ball hawk, free safety is for you. (Berry) If you perfer to tackle, be physical and love to stop plays in the backfield, then strong safety would suit you. (Once again, Berry)
I always just assumed that Berry would be the Free Safety, for his speed to cover the whole field, ball hawkish ability and cover skills combined, and that I was right and everyone else is making a mistake and is wasting his talent to play him at Strong Safety.
Upon further analysis and a quick study of the two positions. I have come to another conclusion.
We’re short one Eric Berry.
"The future ain't what it used to be." ~Yogi Berra~
Jerrell Powe for Chiefs NT in 1st round of the 2011 NFL draft: From Ole Miss; Height: 6-2; Weight: 330; Projected 40 Time: 5.35; Projected Round (2011): 1-2; The top nose tackle in the 2011 NFL Draft, Jerrell Powe collected 12 Tackles for Loss and two sacks in 2009, earning All-SEC Second Team honors.
Your analysis of a SS/FS is pretty correct
However I just wanted to point out that in a 3-4 those ‘defined’ positions start to blur. In a 3-4 the safeties are generally considered Left/Right, and are supposed to be ‘complete’ safeties.
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 20, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup.
What I’m hoping to see is more 8 or 9 in the box, regardless of the assignment. Berry plus the best of the rest ought to be able to come up and play tight man coverage or blitz at will, or drop back in zone (even when they seem to be creeping up pre-snap). With questionable (piss-poor) speed at S last season and/or poor man coverage skills at safety (last umpteen seasons), your average NFL QB could ascertain pre-snap pretty much where the open man(men) were likely to be.
This is hopefully the beginning of the TOUGH secondary KC used to boast, where lining up tight doesn’t mean you’re going to be beaten down the field. It ought to be tougher to get a step on our DB corps and harder to KEEP a step (rather than pulling away from the entire secondary once the smallest advantage is obtained).
Along the lines of what you’re saying, BAMF, Polamalu often comes right up in the face of a wideout. Even though he’s “officially” a strong safety, his speed and ability to cover forces the QB to account for the blitz, without any certainty that the wideout to that side is going to enjoy a clear advantage.
Yep...the more definition I sought, the blurrier it got.
I’m not to concerned where Berry plays now. I’m just gonna trust in Romeo, to maximize his abilities.
"The future ain't what it used to be." ~Yogi Berra~
Jerrell Powe for Chiefs NT in 1st round of the 2011 NFL draft: From Ole Miss; Height: 6-2; Weight: 330; Projected 40 Time: 5.35; Projected Round (2011): 1-2; The top nose tackle in the 2011 NFL Draft, Jerrell Powe collected 12 Tackles for Loss and two sacks in 2009, earning All-SEC Second Team honors.
I think we've come to a point where the SS is now expected to be the most versatile player on the field.
Troy Polamalu has become the measuring stick. And now, all strong safeties are expected to follow his mold. They need to be equally dangerous in coverage, run defense, and even attacking the QB. I think the Chiefs expect Berry to offer this kind of play even though athletically he seems better suited as a free safety. With Jarrad Page seemingly out of the picture, I think you can probably lock Berry in as the starting SS. I’ll feel better about Kendrick Lewis starting for us if he’s lining up at FS where he can drop back into coverage first and use his instincts to find the ball.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 20, 2010 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
byTheK-man My man your analysis is still corect ! With Eric B. ,R.Crennell & E.Thomas
We will discover a duplicate Eric Berry in training camp ! IMHO
by 65tosspowertrap on Jun 21, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the support Trapper.
And it’s Berry …..with the interception at the 50…he’s…breaks a tackle….to the 40….the 30….cuts back……spins around……laterals to the “other Berry”…..Berry to the 20…the 10……5……breaks a tackle…..and
“TOUCHDOWN……..KAAAAAAAAN SUUUUUUU CITEEEEEEEE!
Yep…another Berry will do just fine. :)
"The towels were so thick there....I could hardly close my suitcase." ~Yogi Berra~
Jerrell Powe for Chiefs NT in 1st round of the 2011 NFL draft: From Ole Miss; Height: 6-2; Weight: 330; Projected 40 Time: 5.35; Projected Round (2011): 1-2; The top nose tackle in the 2011 NFL Draft, Jerrell Powe collected 12 Tackles for Loss and two sacks in 2009, earning All-SEC Second Team honors.
I would have to say NT
It might not be the ‘sexy’ position, might not be the best battle. However NT is the most important position in a 3-4, which we all know we need better play from that position. The camp battle will do nothing but improve our D as a whole
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
Haley's "He's a character" comment reminds me of "He sure is loud" comments he made about Pollard LAST summer.
Smith might not mesh with Haley. Luckily, Crennel comes from the trenches, and has always seemed to relate well to the fatties on the D side.
I’m not at all certain KC has yet found a true 3-4 NT. Between the converted DTs playing DE (Jackson less of a stretch than Dorsey, in that regard), and Lokey in the NT mix, I’m looking for Sheffield or somebody else bigger to play that LOLB spot, and give the Chiefs an overall bigger and stronger front 5, and maybe place a little less emphasis on traditional “Just eat 2 blockers” philosophy from the front 3.
I know “hybrid” is a dirty word around here, but at the same time, I have a hard time seeing somebody as big as Vince Wilfork fitting the conditioning program Haley’s been promoting. 3-4 flavor? Definitely. Traditional 3-4? Until they draft Powe or make a trade for Wilfork, this ain’t gonna be yer daddy’s 3-4.
Following the "He's a Character" comment
Haley said something of the extent that is what a new guy on the team needs to do to build cohesion. I don’t remember Haley saying anything after the comment of Pollard.
So maybe this is Haley being nicer than he was last year, but I believe that Smith is far from being in Haley’s doghouse. As Pollard was in Haley’s doghouse after he made the comment “He sure is loud.”
Go Chiefs!!!!
Yeah. There's more of a "jollying-up the guys" or "whistling while you work" flavor than a trash-talking flavor
with Smith than there was with Pollard.
A guy who works hard with a sense of humor is a pleasure to work with. You accomplish a lot and the time flies by.
I agree with your statement that our D will not be the 'traditional' 3-4
That’s a good thing. How about this question, we passed on Raji/Cody/Williams/etc do you believe the FO is even looking for a massive NT, or more of a rotation with anyone that can hold that spot for a few seconds on each play?
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 20, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I see a lot of 3-3-5 and 4-2-5 sets coming.
Versatility seems to be the name of the game on defense this year. Berry and Arenas offer a lot of possibilities if their game translates quickly to the NFL. Also, Mike Vrabel lining up next to DJ at ILB in minicamp seems to point to the team promoting Studebaker to a more prominent role this year. I think Crennel is going to be allowed to get creative in certain situations.
And I’m expecting Ron Edwards and Shaun Smith to see a fairly equal number of snaps. Edwards can play well for a time, but he runs out of gas and ends up getting manhandled as the game goes on. Smith fits in well as a relief to that because he plays with a mean streak. Also Derrick Lokey could come in as a 4th lineman.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 20, 2010 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we are all hoping we run nickel sets quite often
Get’s the NT(or lack thereof) off of the field, and adds more speed. We just have to make sure we can generate pressure from a nickel this year
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 21, 2010 6:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Romeo ran 3-4, 4-3 and hybrid whatchamacallit wingbanger
in NE. Romeo will be moving guys all over the place to take advantage of opposing offensive weaknesses—whatever they are. You will most likely not be able to pigeon hole this defense in any one particular style as much as it may be the new and improvend Romeo defense. I mean, he’s had a whole off season of making beer commercials to come up with new ideas.
Romeo ran 3-4, 4-3 and hybrid whatchamacallit wingbanger
in NE. Romeo will be moving guys all over the place to take advantage of opposing offensive weaknesses—whatever they are. You will most likely not be able to pigeon hole this defense in any one particular style as much as it may be the new and improvend Romeo defense. I mean, he’s had a whole off season of making beer commercials to come up with new ideas.
Some names I am watching.
I voted for TE, but I am watching Derek Lokey, a possible rotation at NT, Dion Gales (he played limited NT last season at about 260, or so, I see he is up to 310, unless it is a missprint. Quite a weight gain!) Barry Richardson at RT (or LT, depending on the need), Colin Brown, at Tackle or Guard, Asamoah-Guard or Center, Maurice Leggett – Safety/Corner, Da Juan Morgan- Safety, Arenas -safety, Jeremy Horne-WR. I don’t project hardly any of these as being starters, but I want to see how much depth we have, and who even makes the roster. I think we have a fairly good idea of the starters. There will be some changes, depending on camp production, injuries, etc., but I think we are pretty close on determining almost all of the starters, just based on OTA’s, and last year’s roster. It’s early, but other than 3 or 4 spots, I think most of us could come real close in naming the starting lineup on September 13th. I will say that I think it will be pretty fluid, based on opponents, schemes and matchups, injuries and players progressing or digressing during the season.
There once was a man from Nantucket......Nevermind.
I'll be durned! Gales listed at 310 on kcchiefs.com.
Still @ 259 on nfl.com.
Wouldn’t that be somethin’? From LB/DE ’tweener to NT!? Wow!
ILB all the way.
Will it be JB/DJ, or DW/CM, or DJ/DW, or JB/CM, or Chuck Norris/Bob Knight?
R.I.P. Derrick Thomas. The Chiefs and the World have never been the same since your untimely death.
Chuck Norris/Jackie Chan
I’m still hoping for JB/DJ. Belcher looks to have really worked this offseason, gained weight, good tackler, could make a good ‘thumper’ but with some speed. DJ has the speed, cover ability, etc
The 5th Dimension
#29 Eric Berry
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 20, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I am hoping that Cottam get's into the TE battle
he had a tough injury last year but he does show promise, I just hope he is in the mix.
"It doesn't matter what you do in Life only that you do it the best you can. "
I agree
I’m afraid he may be behind the eight ball a little bit with that injury and not practicing all spring but I think he had a strong finish to 2009 (before he was injured) that he warrants another shot.
by Joel Thorman on Jun 20, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm huge on Moeaki.
Injuries dropped his draft status, but he finished very strong at Iowa. He’s a complete TE. Great athleticism, great hands, and great blocking ability. He could be the steal of the 2010 Draft.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 20, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Joel, any and all these COULD be intriguing as training camp and preseason unfolds ...
… instead of going by “vote” my thinking is more along the lines of “wait a bit and see what happens” … TE and LB seem to have more “bodies” involved … regardless, I know that whatever and whoever you cover and write about, it’ll be awesome
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Tired of reading "the Chiefs really like Pope"
Its not even close to an argument as to why he will or wont start. Guess what? I bet they really like Moeaki too because they drafted him. Not only did they draft him, they drafted him early despite his injury history and he’s a Haley guy too because I’m sure he was in on the decision.. They also drafted him despite liking Pope soooo much, they must be really comfortable with him being the guy to spend a mid round pick on his position.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
Well, right now Moeaki is number 2 on the depth chart...
Behind Pope. You can be sure of that. A rookie is a rookie.
It’s Pope’s job to lose.
"The future ain't what it used to be." ~Yogi Berra~
Jerrell Powe for Chiefs NT in 1st round of the 2011 NFL draft: From Ole Miss; Height: 6-2; Weight: 330; Projected 40 Time: 5.35; Projected Round (2011): 1-2; The top nose tackle in the 2011 NFL Draft, Jerrell Powe collected 12 Tackles for Loss and two sacks in 2009, earning All-SEC Second Team honors.
Thats fine ...
But “the Chiefs really like Pope” isnt an argument or reason why he’s number one but seems to be the only thing offered up lately as to why he is.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Jun 20, 2010 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Pope is "Haley's Guy" ... better?
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The Chiefs really like Pope because he is a pretty well rounded TE.
Is this better?
Go Chiefs!!!!
Ask yourself.....What's not to like?
He’s 6’8" tall. 269lbs. Excellent route runner. Good blocker. Good instincts. Can take hits. Catches nearly everything thrown to him. Tons of NFL game experience. Doesn’t make rookie mistakes. Perhaps you’re man crush on Moaeki, is blinding you Pope’s abilities. No, Moaeki could win the job….but he needs to prove himself first….that’s all.
"The future ain't what it used to be." ~Yogi Berra~
Jerrell Powe for Chiefs NT in 1st round of the 2011 NFL draft: From Ole Miss; Height: 6-2; Weight: 330; Projected 40 Time: 5.35; Projected Round (2011): 1-2; The top nose tackle in the 2011 NFL Draft, Jerrell Powe collected 12 Tackles for Loss and two sacks in 2009, earning All-SEC Second Team honors.
Could your man crush on Pope be doing the same towards Moeaki?
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 21, 2010 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the TEs are going to be the most interesting
Not just who will start, but who will make the team, unless they keep 4 again. But I think they barely beat out the safeties and DBs. The “who makes the team” competition among the DBs looks like it’s going to be brutal.
I also have to say I can’t remember the last time there was this much competition going into camp. Hat’s off to Pioli and Haley for that since I think it’s because of an increase in player quality. I think even the year that Herm announced the youth movement he pretty much anointed his starters rather than having a true competition. It all sounds good – I feel certain it’s going to lead to a much improved team.
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
yeah, competition everywhere ...
… except QB, of course
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
We should submit a formal request to the NFL to let Brodie Croyle wear a protective foam suit.
I can’t stand having a guy with his abilities holding the clipboard. Cassel can be a great game manager and a solid QB, but his natural talent just isn’t enough to be elite. Croyle has the talent, but the guy could get knocked out of a game by a strong breeze.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 20, 2010 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Croyle could and would do well with our new and improved line ...
… not to mention a set of RBs who actually BLOCK (unlike the last one he worked with) and a REAL actual OC as well
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I was just about to say that...
I mean I did just say that….just not before you did.
"The future ain't what it used to be." ~Yogi Berra~
Jerrell Powe for Chiefs NT in 1st round of the 2011 NFL draft: From Ole Miss; Height: 6-2; Weight: 330; Projected 40 Time: 5.35; Projected Round (2011): 1-2; The top nose tackle in the 2011 NFL Draft, Jerrell Powe collected 12 Tackles for Loss and two sacks in 2009, earning All-SEC Second Team honors.
I'm a bit agnostic on OL. I think they're starting off stronger than this time last year, but
I was WAY too optimistic this time last year, which has me fightin’ shy o’ that OL Kool-Aid.
I think he's had some bad luck. With the line we have now..
he could go the whole season with no injuries….with a little luck.
"The future ain't what it used to be." ~Yogi Berra~
Jerrell Powe for Chiefs NT in 1st round of the 2011 NFL draft: From Ole Miss; Height: 6-2; Weight: 330; Projected 40 Time: 5.35; Projected Round (2011): 1-2; The top nose tackle in the 2011 NFL Draft, Jerrell Powe collected 12 Tackles for Loss and two sacks in 2009, earning All-SEC Second Team honors.
I like the upgrades on the line...
But the QB is still going to get hit. That’s just football. And Brodie has injury concerns going all the way back to high school. It’s a shame because you can’t deny his talent and ability.
He’s like a boxer with a combo of skill, power, speed, smarts, and a glass jaw.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 21, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Best or most important
ILB and Center are probably the most important
I still think we are screwed at center
not necessarily, Home Slice ...
just having Weigmann around, Niswanger will learn a LOT … responisbilities, technique … just that would be a good thing
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I just don't think Niswanger is built right to be a starting NFL center.
Too tall. It’s hard for a guy of his height to come from that pre-snap position into a low center of gravity that is needed at C. And I think Wiegmann has more left in the tank than people realize. And he brings a very proud tradition with him. He was a key part of one of the best offensive lines in NFL history. A lot of those young guys will benefit from having him there next to Brian Waters. Just watching those two play together will give a lot of guys a real look at how it’s supposed to be done.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 20, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions
and next to Lilja as well ...
if Casey wins the job, I’m down with it … if not, I can at least see immediate (and future) better play from Niswanger just having both Waters AND Lilja on either side AND coaching tips from Weigmann
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I think having Lilja would definitely help Niswanger.
It’s always good when a center can depend on either guard to help on a double team. We’ve definitely been missing that last year. And having Wiegmann around to teach him a few tricks and show him how he used to work with Waters and Shields can’t do anything but help. I’d still feel better about Niswanger working in at guard though. I think he’s just a better fit there physically.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 21, 2010 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Bigger and slower at the one spot can be offset by quicker at the other. Makes sense.
Still agnostic, though. Let them show me somethin’ on the field, ’fore I get too worked-up.
Some people forgot other positions...
like the 3rd string RB, also the KR/PR duties, and 3rd and 4th string CB’s.
Castille and Moore make up RB #3/FB#1, Arenas KR/PR duty, Areanas CB#3, Daniels #4 and almighty31 #5
Those positions are one of the strengths IMO…and they don’t see the field on 1st or 2nd down, 70% of the time.. If Chiefs fans are worried about these positions then they should win the AFC West
Don't forget Jackie Battle.
They kept him over Kolby Smith so I’m thinking this is a make or break year for him in KC. He’ll have a lot working for him if he can pick up on the FB position. He’s big enough to do it and a FB that can run well and catch is just another tool in the shed, and it really looks like that’s what this offense is going to be all about.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jun 21, 2010 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Like to see him contribute more than just ST, but ST's likely what keeps his bubble from popping.
It’s just that he seems to disappear from the regular offense once the pads go on and he faces NFL opposition.
My 2 cents...
Berry will be FS, (Mc Graw SS for games 1-2 then Lewis), Mays gets cut, DJ and Belcher/Williams start at ILB then C. Greenwood takes over for one of them by mid-way point of season. J. Page has a better chance of cracking the line-up of a MLB team than a NFL team
Strong words wrt Page.
Mays might be just the guy to crash the middle all day long, to bolster what they’re doing (or not doing) at the nose. But Mays is a sentimental favorite of mine, so I’m biased.
You’re pretty high on Greenwood. Some crazy measurables from this kid. Might could give us DJ traits 2-deep, to maintain consistency in team D dynamics.
No mention of Lokey in the NT battle?
Last I heard, Lokey was getting a lot of first team snaps and Smith was hangin around the 3rd team. But we’ll see.
Man, you guys really know your stuff!
Here’s a thought that I had while reading all of this very good discussion. Let’s suppose that we start off the season with a winning record in the first and second quarter (Haley speak). Let’s say we are 5-3. Now the games become a whole lot more important week in and week out because of playoff implications. Does this change the mind set that we are discussing here about it not being as important WHO plays, but rather depth will make us more effective because of consistency? Does Haley begin playing certain players more often? If so, does that effect the consistency of the ones who don’t get as much playing time and potentiall jeopardize what started the season out so strongly?
Aiken, you should know better than to post a thing like that!
we don’t have a CLUE about a damn thing, we just THINK we know our stuff (myself especially)
I honestly don’t think record per se will or should make a difference in terms of who plays or how much … consistency is good if it’s positive and productive, of course, but that depth is also important (in case someone goes down, and for versatility as well)
I think if we’re at all successful, even 3-5 at that point, you won’t see much changing simply to have a specific player here or there (that could change, of course, depending on production or lack thereof) … Haley might well use certain players more than others, depending on the fit for this or that situation or gameplan, but I think you’ll see that all along, with the most productive players slowly earning a little more playing time here and there as the season unfolds, but also as game to game planning allows (if we’re facing a “slow” defense you’ll see McCluster and Charles, if it’s a smaller defense you’ll see more TJones pounding the ball, vs Jets and Bengals you’ll see teams try to run, teams that defend well against the run will see us pass more than usual)
I think you’re going to see the Chiefs do an impression of a chameleon this year … not a power running team, not a passing juggernaut, not dependent on any one aspect of the game, but rather a team that (hopefully) does a variety of things well (if not great) and can take advantage of the weaknesses of other teams
and remember, Aiken: I really know my stuff!
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I'm enjoying the thread(s), too, AD.
As a Chiefs fan, I’m more worried about the loss of excellence due to the loss of any one single guy. That’s one of the big problems I had with the teams Peterson built. The one guy goes down, and suddenly there IS no pocket, or you LOST that threat to the edge (or down the field) that was opening-up the middle or the shallows for you.
I think if they’re 5-3, the position battles and the depth-over-stars approach will put the Chiefs in BETTER position to sustain their competitiveness for the duration, which makes them more and more dangerous over time, while other teams, who started off fast, are fading down the stretch.
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