Secondary strength: Myth or fact?
Last year I remember a lot of talk around AP about our secondary being a strength of the team. Hell, I know I contributed to that conversation, because I thought it was true. Here we are in another offseason, where hope springs eternal, and we're all talking about the secondary being a strength again and again I know I am part of that bandwagon. I started analyzing and probably over analyzing the secondary players and rated them in 1 of 3 simple terms. As a Strength, Weakness or Unknown. After rating them my enthusiasm was tempered, although not lost, because of how many unknowns we have. If you try to put a starting 4 (or 5 with the NB) out on the field there are a lot of questions. Take a look and let me know how you see these players in comparison to me. I feel pretty comfortable with my assessments, but who am I. FYI... I left off Richardson and some other guys that cycled through last year because I'm lazy and I didn't see them figuring into the equation. If you see someone else contributing please add them into the conversation asyou see fit.
Brandon flowers will be our "Revis" in 2010. I know that's a bold statement, but this kid excites me. We can all at least agree that Flowers is the cornerstone of our secondary and should improve in year three, if he follows the 3rd year pattern of most NFL players. Verdict: Strength (this should be universally agreed, but people surprise me)
Jarrad Page hasn't been as available as we have needed him to be. He has been a playmaker when he has been healthy and was part of what I thought was a strong safety combination last offseason in Page/Pollard. I think his availability led to the Kendrick Lewis selection. Verdict: Unknown
Brandon Carr gets a lot of passes his way with Flowers lining up on the other side. He has made some plays, but he didn't improve anywhere nearly as much in year 2 as Flowers did. That may not be a fair comparison, but we need him to step it up this year and avoid giving up the big plays and touchdowns. Verdict: Unknown (this one was hard)
Eric Berry is a rookie, but I know he is going to be such an upgrade over our safety play last year. I know my daughters heard a couple of explicit words slip out of my mouth while I watched Mike Brown give up too many big plays during the 2009 season. I could go on, but I'm pretty sure we have had enough Eric Berry articles to last us a lifetime during draft coverage.Verdict: Strength (even though he hasn't played a snap in the NFL)
Javier Arenas should be our starting NB and should add some help in the blitz packages. I don't see anyone projecting him to start over Carr, so he will not be a 4 down player. Again, I'm drinking the Kool Aid on an unproven rookie. Verdict: Strength
Donald Washington is a physically talented player that didn't earn many snaps in 2009. Haley has made some positive comments about him this offseason, but no one knows what we have in Washington yet. Verdict: Unknown
Maurice Leggett -unavailable says it all. After winning the Mack Lee Hill award his rookie year as an undrafted free agent he hasn't shown that he can take the punishment the NFL delivers and stay on the field. He's another piece of what I thought was a foundation for a good secondary last year. Verdict: Unknown
McGraw really does need to find another job, queue the grocery bagger jokes. He is a great guy and has a lot of good qualities. Unfortunately none of those qualities are physical skills. Verdict:Weakness
Kendrick Lewis has a lot of buzz and a lot of potential. He is a rookie that was drafted in the 5th round, so I don't think the expectations are for him to be a day 1 starter (I have been wrong before. See other references earlier in the postJ). I really think this kid has an opportunity, but again a rookie. Verdict: Unknown
Dajuan Morgan has been interesting to say the least. When he was on the field last year I saw some real ability from him supporting against the run. Is he unable to play well against the pass? Is he just not one of the right 53? What is it that is holding our 2008 3rd round pick from contributing? I don't know and that leaves me with my last Verdict: Unknown.
As you can see we have many unknowns with potential and I even marked some unproven rookies down as strengths. In the end it truly comes down to the coaching and all signs are good in that direction. We should however be careful of our expectations come September.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I believe our secondary will be a strength in the second half
but we will have some rookie pains when the season starts
The Chiefs will finish .500 or better in 2010.
I think McGraw deserves a little more respect
I mean how does he finish as the only weakness out of this group? I know you had to give it to someone but DaJuan Morgan didnt even play, Leggett would be a weakness IMO because of his constant BS’ing, and overall uninterested attitude.
Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.
Didn't even notice that he was the only weakness
to be fair to McGraw, he’s the only weakness I listed because the others weren’t even worthy of a mention. I think Leggett is very close to being considered a weakness, but I give him the benefit of the doubt due to injuries.
The Chiefs will finish .500 or better in 2010.
MoLeggs 18 total tackles
McGraw 50 total tackles 1 pick. I think he is at least a decent backup. I like the post good idea of highlighting all of them and getting the opinion from everyone on here. I would go with this:
All of them: unknown (due to the fact that Thomas is going to coach them up the right way)
Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.
Do you think McGraw just played too many snaps last year?
At times he looked like a beast, but it depended on the team
The Chiefs will finish .500 or better in 2010.
I will say overmatched
SD and Den has damn good receivers, not to mention we got smoked by Philly last year, and Dallas who has good receivers and Romo as well. He performs on special teams, and has a flash here and there, hopefully he will become a more rotational guy that will give someone a breather and come in under certain situations.
Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.
McGraw made the AWESOME special teams play against the Ravens...
Punt block AND recovery in the end zone for a TD.
McGraw gets a bad rap. He played better than Mike Brown in several games last year.
by Chiefsfan1970 on May 5, 2010 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
We just can't use him in the secondary
The Chiefs will finish .500 or better in 2010.
by Tony Perkins on May 5, 2010 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I think McGraw is a solid back-up
as well as an excellent special teamer.
He may not be a starting safety, but he is valuable to the team in other ways.
8-8 could win win the west in 2010
F**** Denver!
Twitter! @phillipbrown
Yeah, but his contributions on special teams makes him very valuable
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
Agreed.
McGraw needs to stick around for a long time to come, because he really is a great Special Teams guy. And I mean, he’s not a team captain for being quiet and sitting on his ass. He plays and is a leader on Speical Teams. Just for that fact alone, I’d keep McGraw on this team for as long as the guy can play.
I know that you're afraid... you're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin.
Carr and Flowers
We can’t forget that even though they are the same age, those two are miles apart in their experience. Flowers came from a strong D-I program, and started in Week One as a rookie, while Carr came from a D-II school and didn’t start until Surtain went down – then he never gave the job back to Surtain. Carr does indeed get picked on a lot, since Flowers is such a BA, but with better safety help over the top, he’ll be able to be a little more aggressive and shouldn’t need to play with a 6 yard cushion.
Now that we don’t have two slow guys who are my age out there at safety, I expect to see some more press coverage at the line, and Carr should be as good if not better than Flowers in that area as he has a considerable size advantage. But Flowers and Arenas are both used to playing in press coverage, so I don’t see them as a liability even though they are small. Arenas especially seems strong as hell for a little guy.
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on May 5, 2010 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Carr will benefit from Thomas and Crennell as much as anyone
The Chiefs will finish .500 or better in 2010.
McGraw, Leggett = Special Teamers
Washington will “shine” this season, replacing Carr, and either Morgan or Lewis will replace Page later in the season, but overall they are very young but need to become more physical that have quality depth ON THE ROSTER
We'll see about that...
Washington vs Carr vs Arenas is what we’re talking here. Carr will keep on fight. And if he’s get’s put on the sideline, it’s pretty hard to see Washington get over Arenas. Arenas is VERY physical and probably tackles better then our entire LB Corp (except for Tamba)
I know that you're afraid... you're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin.
Big prediction on Washington, nice
I’m interested to see what Carr brings this year
The Chiefs will finish .500 or better in 2010.
Carr is not NEARLY as bad as people seem to think he is
Every CB gets beat sometime.
The last game of the year Carr got beat a couple of times, but we shouldn’t be concentrating on that and ignoring the other 15 games that he was very solid in.
And Flowers is a special player and will continue to get better, but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking he’s a “shutdown corner” yet. He has progress to make too.
Grades on Berry and ESPECIALLY Arenas are out of whack considering we haven’t seen either of them play a down of NFL football yet. There is going to be a learning curve with them as well. All the hopes are based on what we’ve been spoonfed from Pioli and Co. They should be considered Undecideds until they actually get on the field and prove themselves.
Agreed about Carr
Better safety play would have helped a lot in that game. CBs can only do so much without help over the top. I was impressed with Carr last year seeing as how teams would throw away from Flowers as much as possible…
by Hail2DaChiefs on May 6, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Now that we don’t have two slow guys who are my age out there at safety, I expect to see some more press coverage at the line,
LOL! Pretty much sums it up right there.
我相信皮欧利, 加油酋长!!!
by BeijingKCfan on May 6, 2010 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not buying it
We thought our defensive secondary was our only strength when Pioli first got here. With the switch in defensive schemes we quickly realized it wasn’t a strength at all. I don’t see how anyone could put two rookie’s who haven’t even played a down in the NFL (who cares where they were drafted) as “strengths” vs. Page & Carr who have actually held their own on a football field.
D.J. #56 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on May 5, 2010 2:02 PM CDT reply actions
Totally agree
People are buying into too much of the hype on these two guys.
They are rookies and you can expect them to play like rookies. Mistakes WILL be made.
Page
Jarrad Page hasn’t been as available as we have needed him to be.
He started as a rookie 7th round draft pick, and started all 48 games his first three years. Name just ONE other 7th rounder that started 48 games in 3 seasons.
He has been a playmaker when he has been healthy
Which has been every year except this last one…let’s hope he recovers, because he’s actually a damn good safety, and I think he’d be an even better SS. (Face it, yes Berry can lay the wood, but he’s better at FS, and he’ll live longer at FS)
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
Page is a solid player.
He should be able to hold his own in the same starting backfield as Eric Berry, Brandon Flowers, and Brandon Carr.
Mc = Descendent of...
Cluster = A group of stars in the sky.
McCluster = Son of the Stars
Berry = Mmm. Delicious.
------------------------------
R.I.P. Derrick Thomas. The Chiefs and the World have never been the same since your untimely death.
I will be excited as hell to see Berry and Page in the backfield in Week 1.
I want to see how they work together. If Page fails, then he fails. Shit on it and move on. Kendrick Lewis is gonna be worth something to this team someday soon. I DO see #49 and #29 in the backfield together, but before we write off Page, I want to see what he’s made of and if he REALLY wants to play on this team.
I know that you're afraid... you're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin.
I would say that we needed him to be available last year and he wasn't
I too hope Page can come back this year and play, so I’m not down on him. This post was about what do we have and know versus what do we hope and assume. Thats all.
The Chiefs will finish .500 or better in 2010.
I think D.Washington and B.Carr will have to fight it out for the #2 CB spot.
I really hope that Washington steps it up this year, and takes the #2 CB spot. There was alot of talk when he came out early, that if he had just stay in school one more year, he might have been a first rounder.
I hope your right cuz we need better play on that side this year or they'll
never throw to B. Flowers side.
The Chiefs will finish .500 or better in 2010.
This was a good subject cuz the vote is split pretty even
The Chiefs will finish .500 or better in 2010.
tony
u are a good writer
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
i am think
about getting a chiefs hat i feel feel for the almont of comment i have i shound get something
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
SWEET!
That will perplex everyone J
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
We all knew that someday you would say you really are a Chiefs fan
;-)
我相信皮欧利, 加油酋长!!!
yeah
can not find kc stuff here through its all dal tenn stl
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
Let me work on it J
I will let you know :)
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
Carr and Flowers were not the problem..
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/4/17/1428642/every-cornerback-tandem-where-do
Safety and LB coverage were the main problems last year. No pressure was also an issue. I’ll continue to say that Brandon Carr is probably the best number 2 CB in the league. He will start opposite of Flowers (unless injury). There will be no battle for number 2. Arenas will be in the Nickle Package. Washington will be a rotational player/Special Teams player. Enough said.
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
The secondary doesn't function in a vacuum.
If the rest of the defense holds up their end, they should be a strength. If the rest of the defense doesn’t hold up their end they will just be a part of another sucky defense.
Left Tackle is Brandon Albert's natural position.
Not sure how you can call Carr an Unknown
And give two rookies Strength grades.
Carr is a known quantity, and while I wouldnt’ consider him a ‘strength’, he’s certainly is an above average player in this league, imo.
FOX Sports list his passes defensed at 7th in the league with 19, ahead of names like Charles Woodson and Asante Samual. The problem there is he only has one interception, while those names above and below have 5 and 6.
To me, the knocks I’ve made against him not getting his head around to look for and make plays on the ball are valid. He’s big, his physical, and he can run/shadow a receiver pretty well. If he can just improve on getting his head turned around faster and getting his hands up and around the ball, there’s no question that he becomes a definite ‘strength’.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&table=interception&stat=intPd&dir=descending
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
Yeah, I agree...
His only real problem is not looking for the ball. I expect RC to coach that up a lot along with the Defensive Back coach. He he can keep up with most WR’s, he plays decent zone, he’s tought on the press, and he is pretty good at looking for the run play. He will improve with more pieces around him.
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
Re-rating your ratings.
Brandon Flowers: Strength
The closest thing to a “shutdown corner” the Chiefs currently have on the roster in most peoples’ minds, Flowers should truly excel now that the Corners have better help from the Safety positions.
Brandon Carr: Strength
Fact: He was statistically better than Brandon Flowers in 2009.
Javier Arenas: Unknown, possibly Strength.
Hasn’t played a down in the NFL. Likely to win job as starting Nickelback away from MoLeggs, and should also be starting kick returner.
Maurice Leggett: Weakness
More interested in his rap career and “bein a vikin” than his NFL career. Won’t make the 53-man roster in 2010.
Eric Berry: Unknown, likely Strength
Should be a Game One starter at Safety and, by the end of the season, candidate for AFC West Rookie of the Year.
Jarrad Page: Strength
Likely the best Safety on our team not named Eric Berry, but had trouble adjusting in Haley’s system after the loss of Bernard Pollard. Should see improvement this year.
Jon McGraw: Strength
Excellent Special Teams player. Team Captain. Solid back-up player.
Kendrick Lewis: Unknown
Hasn’t set foot on the NFL field yet.
Donald Washington: Unknown
Drafted because of his raw potential and athleticism, didn’t see much (any?) time on the field in 2009. Needs to produce in 2010 or find a new occupation.
Dajuan Morgan: Unknown.
A leftover from the Herm Edwards era, Morgan — like Washington — needs to earn his position on the team this year by working up to his potential or start considering new career paths.

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