The Big Play
From the FanPosts. -Chris
There has been a lot written on here about the draft. Both before and after, one of the key points I’ve seen is we did not get a NT or ILB to bolster the run defense. While I think most people are pleased with our draft, and the quality of players we got, I think it is safe to say none of us saw this particular set of players ahead of time. Other than Eric Berry, the rest made me kind of go "Huh?" As I’ve learned more about these guys, I like the draft a lot and think it makes perfect sense.
Last spring and summer while I was unemployed, I used to spend a lot of time commenting on AP. Since getting a job, I just don’t have much time to comment, but I do get on and read every day. Usually several times a day. I keep wanting to add these comments to posts, but never seem to do so, and I decided I’d just make a post about it instead.
The one comment I just have not seen is this: Todd Haley is all about eliminating the big play on defense, and eliminating minus plays on offense.
When putting on that view of team production, the draft and free agent acquisitions make a lot more sense. We have to judge the picks on what the COACHES felt needed to be fixed, not just on who was most talented, or what the pundits had to say about what we needed. None of them other than the coaches understand the particular talents of who is already here, and the particular failings we have that must be remedied in order for us to win. Here are a couple of quotes from Haley that point out exactly what his mind set is.
"Going back to the bye week we’ve looked closely at ourselves and there are some interesting things about our team. Defensively, we’re in the top seven or eight in forcing three-and-outs - the top seven or eight in the league. Every team ahead of us in that particular category is a winning team. We’re not a winning team and something’s happening. I think it’s pretty clear to everybody that the big plays are the killers on defense. When we give up big plays in the passing games specifically that’s what’s causing us to lose."
From Todd Haley’s Nov 11 presser
HALEY: "Minus plays, minus plays. We have to eliminate minus plays. Coach (Bill) Parcells drilled it into my head over and over and over again for years about minus plays and how they lead to dissatisfaction with your offense. Right now, we’re all dissatisfied with the offense and to me, the root of that evil is minus plays. So we’re doing an extensive study again, to figure out if it is the play – are we asking the players to do something they just can’t do; is it the players, is it match ups, what is it – if we can see a pattern that develops between the sacks, the minus runs and the penalties"
From Todd Haley’s Oct 27 presser.
Since these quotes were taken with quite a few games left to play, we have some evidence of what effect the self-scouting during the bye week had. We still gave up too many big plays on defense, and we also declined in ability to stop the run. But for one and a half of those games, we were missing Glenn Dorsey and found out just how valuable he really is to us. Haley’s comments from the Cleveland game point to technique being the demon there, that we were just blown off the line. We also were having trouble keeping DBs healthy, with a lot going to IR or missing games. The need for multiple position ability was very apparent.
So here we are now with Romeo instead of Clancy to scheme and call plays. Thank goodness. I really thought Clancy outsmarted himself more than the opponents with his play calling late in games. We have Anthony Pleasant instead of Krummie, a guy who actually played under Romeo and in his scheme, to teach our D-Line some better technique. We have HOFer Emmitt Thomas instead of Clancy to teach our DBs better technique. We have some very shiny new toys for Emmitt to play with too. I think the case for improvement within is going to make a strong statement this year.
On offense, we did manage to slow down the minus plays. Lots fewer sacks. No Larry Johnson unable to find the line of scrimmage. Jamaal Charles emerging as a threat. At least slightly better WR play. The OL obviously coming together as a unit.
So now we have an OL with a few new pieces that should be an upgrade. We have a WR corps that looks way better now than this time last year. We have a new power back. We have a new weapon in RunDMC. We have a full time OC to scheme and call plays.
We had a pretty good special teams coverage unit last year, but we did not have a very good return squad. We now have a couple of solid additions to that group as well.
Bottom line is if we had gone NT and done a better job of run protection but still given up the big plays, we would still lose a lot of games because of it. I think it is far better to go the route we have. Make them go 10 plays or more to get a touchdown and there’s a good chance the offense does something to implode. Fumble, Int, holding, delay, procedure, just anything that will make them have to go farther. We did great on 3-and –outs last year, if we repeat that we will be competitive.
Once again, I just think this is something people seem to have forgotten. But I recall a lot of times Haley talking about the big play and minus plays last year. Get those under control and we may have a shot at that 9-7 that I was foolishly predicting last year!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Rec Zodeman :)
Very good train of thought there. The Big plays did kill us almost every game.
Josh Cribbs and Jerome Harrison etc
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
Don't forget
Miles Austin torched us a couple times too… I think the big play is definitely what killed us last year. Huge momentum shifts when we just seemed to get things under control were all too often last year. Zodeman you hit the nail on the head with this post good job and rec’d.
I wonder what the Chiefs D will be like
if we can stop those 1 or 2 Big plays that we gave up last year.
Bend not break as another post suggested
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Meh. But it WILL be tougher for teams to torch the KC secondary deep.
I’m more concerned about them playing soft behind the blitz, and giving up the big play on the slant or the seam route. I think throwing the ball across the middle became MUCH riskier for opposing QBs.
“Meh” for bend-don’t-break.
Aiken appreciates the clarification
Might I ask how things turned out?
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
For me? I don't think I'll be sure until June 30th.
The trustees can pull the rug out at any point. Maybe they decide to look at every student eval personally, and, for some reason, this turns out to be a year full of negative comments. In my job, there are always things that don’t work out perfectly for you, or that you feel you could’ve done better. Perfect teaching takes an infinite amount of time, and you can easily get on the wrong side of the time bandit.
But I have the recommendations of my chair and my dean, and all are behaving as though I’m part of the program for fall. So I’ll just keep doing things I need to do to be ready for fall, and hope for the best. There’ve been no major conflicts with students needing sorting out by chair, dean, VP, President, so no red flags.
I’m just self-critical enough to know how far from perfect I am, so I rarely feel secure. Hopefully I’m just paranoid, but I ain’t countin’ on it until it’s a done deal, and June 30th pass uneventfully.
Well Done
Being self-criitical should be on Maslow’s chart somewhere.
You can’t learn more if you think you are perfect to begin with:)
Strive for perfection in your own eyes and I swear it will be more than anyone else requires of you. Your Dad is very proud I think!
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Back at you Mills :)
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh my...
Are we talking about the Theory of Needs???
I have a feeling that 2010 will be a defining year for the Kansas City Chiefs. Do we become the 2001 Patriots or footballs version of the royals??
by Cowboynchrist on May 15, 2010 9:57 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes
Sometimes we feel we are higher on the pyramid than we really are.
Sorta like Chutes and Ladders :(
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
mills, hang in and you have my best wishes and thoughts for the fall
I’m still looking for my next gig (middle level science) and concerned about a second year passing without landing a classroom ( more an more layoffs here and other states, and the cutbacks mean new hires are usually fresh from college instead of seasoned vets like myself, that’s the bottom line)
went out and got certs in 4 states, still may not be enough turn the triick for me … and so it goes … I woke up on the right side of the ground again, so it’s all good
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
And best of luck to you, upamtn.
I think education is something folks always need. The states struggling with budgets might just mean there are other opportunities in other venues. Seems like there are lots of places that are screaming for good teachers in math and science, with or without that particular state’s cert.
mills, agreed on that bend don't break ... all that means is your defense is out there for an inordinate amount of time while the other team is driving down field
no question Secondary should be vastly improved, team speed better overall on both sides of the line … but I am still concerned about leakage on run stop at or near the line
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yep. I think there's likely to be vast improvement across the board.
Chiefs went big on DL year 1. Big on DB year 2. I think they have enough pieces in place to be solid all-around.
As the D and O get incrementally better, they BOTH get significantly better, because of feedback loopage. Add to that better kick return game (and more of those pesky DBs for the coverage units.
agree with you both
I hate bend don’t break “prevent defenses”. All they do is prevent your own team from winning.
New body. Same soul.
Good read!!
Nice way of looking at it…makes me even that much more excited to watch!!
"One of the teams asked me a running back question," McCluster said. "They said when you have the ball, do you focus on the guy who's in front of you or the next guy.
"I told them 99% of the time, I'm going to make that first guy miss. Then, I'm onto the next."
by Matt_Grbac on May 15, 2010 2:45 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
rec'd
The big play sunk us last season. Hopefully eliminating it this year will give us a better chance of winning late in the games.
Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.
Is it just me or did most of the big plays against us come on 3rd downs?
It seemed like we did great on first and second downs but gave up alot of big plays on third down.
Hey Zodeman glad to have back, and remember it’s ok to come out of your hole every once in awhile. rec’d
Well
Jamaal Did have a big Plays too
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Lots of good Hilites right there :)
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Abbsolutely.
I am not sure how many 3rd and long conversions we gave up but it was a alot. It was very frustrating to have a team 3rd and 9 and have them hit a 16 yeard pass play down he middle. That should happen rarely, but not for us….not last year.
"let's take it one play at a time"
Lack of closing speed by the Ss meant they HAD to vacate the short middle, to honor the deep routes.
But mainly having to play soft when in nickel meant QBs could see the hot route developing pre-snap. They had high confidence of whom would get off the line untouched and that the timing route would be there. It didn’t hurt that the fear in the KC secondary also made them half-hearted on the blitz, when they needed that one more hat to be thrown at the QB, to force the ball out more quickly.
awesome Zode
I think you are right on the money. I do remember these type of statements becoming almost a mantra for Haley last year. I think this team is looking really great right now. Yes, we continue to have some holes. But, I like the attitude, the atmosphere, the expectations, preparedness that we are seeing from all the players and the entire organization. I have been a Haley fan since day one and I hope that I don’t need to spend so much time defending him this year. I think the players like and respect this guy and want to be winners.
New body. Same soul.
totally agree! I like it
also the defense was always on the field and tired due to the offense going 3 and out! I’m not saying that its all that, we did need upgrades along the front 7 and for sure need future NT but I really think we will see a much improved defense.
ZODEMAN!! I was wondering what happened to you man.
Glad your working and doing well. Good to see you again brother. Great post. Welcome home!
rec'd and I sure agree on clancy being gone para Crennel.
Given the fact that our guys won’t be getting into football shape for the first 9 games of the season, which is too late, that will be a massive improvement right there. Crennel will be a massive upgrade over clancy.
I think the upgrade with a guy that truly call the 34 will help immensely. As Jamie Dukes says, there is only a handful of guys qualified to call a 34 in the entire league. So that alone will help.
Plus we really don’t know what we’ve got in our rookies from last year that have developed now either. I don’t know what to expect, but it will be better than last year and that’s better with me.
Great post...
hopefully we can fix our interior core of defense (NT, ILBs) with the talent we have in house. I mean we have been drafting quite a bit of front 7 talent recently…
D Johnson (1st round)
T Hali (1st round)
G Dorsey (1st round)
T Jackson (1st round)
A Magee (3rd round)
We got bring out the best in these guys because we all know they have great potential.
Exactly
and I believe we extensively discussed the lack of coaching last season. We do have fantastic talent on our Defensive front. We just need them used effectively. I’m also excited to hear about the strengthening of our LBs. I think we have the potential to have a much improved LB Corps as well.
I can see Vrabel taking some turns @ ILB, with maybe Sheffield pinning his ears back and blitzing from Vrabel's old spot.
I don't know about Vrabel going to ILB
but I think that having a guy like him on the team that is versatile enough to be able to do that is huge. I think versatility in the draft picks we got is a huge asset as well. Not only did we pick up kids that were leaders at their respective institutions but they are all very versatile when it comes to what we can do with them on the field. Very excited to see the schemes that Crennel is able to use this year. It will definitely be an upgrade!
I like Vrabel better at ILB than OLB, at this point.
I think he’s smart enough to be a threat to either side of the field from that ILB spot, but I think he plays a smidge too tall when he’s mixing it up with the big boys at the line. Rather see someone with a bit more leverage in more of a rush LB role than a “do your job and put out the brush fires” role playing that SOLB spot. Vrabel isn’t perfectly suited for that job, but I think he would be an unholy terror in the middle, because of his mad smarts. Letting him diagnose and give him 3 step free of trash to go where he wants to go, and I think they’d have something special.
I also feel that our concerns about NT can partly be addressed by sticking Gilberry (possibly with Sheffield in rotation) on Jackson’s outside shoulder. Just go crazy-stout at that LB spot and crush the strong side every play, with Vrabel free to pick his spots and pick up the pieces from ILB. Left to his own devices, Vrabel’s not afraid to roam and show up in some unexpected places.
In your favor is the fact that Vrabel’s caginess could also be used to tie-up blockers while DB blitzers infiltrate off his “blocks.” Vrabel’s one who would lay out a RB, so a teammate could earn the sack. He’s unselfish and smart enough to help with that. I don’t see that he’s quick enough laterally to finish a lot of sacks on his own, although he could be a great disrupter, if left to his own devices to pick a gap anywhere between the hashes from that ILB spot… There I go again.
If Vrabel can play ILB
was that we have noone to play OLB in 2009
or pendergast scheme again.
I lean towards we had no one to play the LOLB spot and maybe Studebaker/Sheffield might allow Vrabel to play the Mays ILB spot in 2010.
It is all dependent on what Romeo envisions now.
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Vrabel made some fantastic plays when he WAS freed-up.
Mostly he seemed to just be trying to stay at home and plug things up on the strong side. When he tried to get push, he seemed to get stood up fairly easily. I’d utilize him in other ways. Go with more of a Terrell Suggs on T-Jax’s outside shoulder.
well, you know we'll do a 3-3-5 so somebody on the LB crew is out ...
probably be a lot of different combinations … just hope we confuse the opposition with it more than we confuse ourselves
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Zodeman hits the big time :)
Well desrved IMO!
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
why Steve, do I detect a note of wistfulness in your typeset?
aye, very good stuff here
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Great stuff sir. The big culprits of the big plays given up, S Mike Brown and the nickle CB are tremendously upgraded. Our basic run D was not nearly as bad as people think, as evidenced by the ranking on 3 and outs. Pioli alluded to the one position(S Mike Brown) that cost us again and again in big plays given up in his post draft presser. Our D has the potential to make a tremendous leap, even though the NT position and maybe the ILB position still needs help. EVERY team has holes, and Crennel was uncanny in NE in covering for their holes on D, which were many, when they were winning super bowls.
I think at least some of that flowed from Belichick. If your guys are drilled on situational play, you can do unconventional
I will admit that DB appeared to be the weakest link, because those 3-and-outs said the D overall was doing some good things.
Unfortunately, there were too few decent drives on offense, early on, to keep cooking-up 3-and-out tactics for successive drives, and there was the DB weakness to pick on. Seemed like the big men on D, particularly Edwards, would wear down, and they were being coached to protect themselves more than to take chances and make big plays. I think it was part just 3-4 principles, but also as the number of snaps mounted, I think staying healthy to fight another day was part of the calculus.
The D might’ve been closer to playing the way I want ’em to than most of us credit, especially on those early drives. I was generally more supportive of the job Clancy seemed to be doing, with the players he had.
wow favorite thing RunDMC great name!
by Dakota23 on May 15, 2010 8:22 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Great post!
Yes we still have some holes, but just having someone to give Edwards a rest will help a lot. There are not too many NT’s that can play every down like he did last year. We fixed some holes and put band-aids on others, I think it will show on the field.
by bringbacktheglory on May 15, 2010 8:29 PM CDT reply actions
I agree. And I'm really hoping to see Alex Magee come into his own, and KC use more of a 3-man rotation
at DE, to go with the 2-man rotation projected at NT.
But at least I won’t get a big sinking feeling when KC goes to the nickel on 3rd. Maybe THIS year’s nickel will keep 3 down linemen in the mix, with MORE aggression from the other 8 guys.
Agreed.
I was surprised to see so many people bagging on Magee this offseason. By now I thought people understood that 1st year D-line men need time to adapt (especially when that line man was drafted in the 3rd rd). I really think Magee is going to step up this year and play quite a few snaps.
我相信皮欧利, 加油酋长!!!
by BeijingKCfan on May 15, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that with him it all depends on if he's got the body to compete at the next level.
Football IQ and on-and-off-the-field leadership were in his resume when he entered last year’s draft. So I expect the game will slow down for him, mentally. It’s just a question of whether or not he’s major league TALENT or not. His job could be tougher than either Dorsey’s or Jackson’s, if he is asked to play either side in the rotation.
If Magee does develop as I hope and expect, Crennel may look for ways to get Jackson, Magee and Dorsey on the field at the same time, which I’d like to see more than I liked last year’s 2-down-linemen looks. Those 2 LSU guys and Magee could cook up some stuff between ‘em that’d be pretty scary.
Great insight
Someone give this guy a contract with AP!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNm2rFzdvW8&feature=related
Excellent job
This post was Thorman level. Keep them coming Zodeman!
Smart
Good points. We need one more draft——- and I figured we’d need at least two. Of course, this assumes Cassel is the guy. If Cassel improves, we might be able to overcome our most glaring deficiencies (ILB, NT).
Agree with your analysis.
I'm dubious of Haley's beaurocratic "We must limit negative plays on offense and big plays on defense" statements.
Basically, that’s the sort of things legislators say about education, when their students are doing poorly on standardized tests. From a distance, standardized tests are clear indicators that something is wrong, but addressing test scores directly, rather than as a symptom of a systemic problem, tends to perpetuate the systemic problems.
I do think that if your offense starts doing things RIGHT, you will likely record fewer negative plays on offense. But if you’re averaging 8 yards-or-better per pass attempt, and over 4 ypc on the ground, you’re probably in the sweet spot, even if you lead the league in negative plays.
well, just remember
behind closed doors he is looking at things in a more complex and nuanced manner. These are simplified quotes that he feels are fine to share with the press room.
New body. Same soul.
Plus there IS much to be said for a "positive yards no matter what" attitude.
A common theme (Cowboys and Redskins) of dynasties is they WILL grind it out on 3rd-and-short, with a near-certain 4th-and-inches if they DO fall just short on 3rd. Same for the Denver dynasties. If you did everything perfectly, they picked up 2, at worst, and probably 3 or 4. That was your basic execution idea. Sure you want big plays, but a lot of negative plays means you’re being overwhelmed in the trenches.
Anyhoo, I’m OK with the “just generalities for public consumption” thing. You’re probably getting closer to the truth with what you’re saying, in a “more complex and nuanced manner.” ;o)
What are you too Nuancing in a far too complex manner?
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I always preferred a different hammer
nothing wrong with a trusty one like you have, mills, but I’ve always been rather fond of this particular one
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
you said "dubious"
that’s a funny word
Only people who carry the opinions of others need the support of others.
by Peyote on May 16, 2010 5:06 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
And we have to find a pass rush
If we don’t measurably increase the pressure on the QB, it will be a tough year for the D. I’m hopeful Vrabel is beat out by Studebaker. We need more athleticism on the outside to go with Hali.
having crappy NT's and ILB's
is going to mean more big plays given up on defense
it will happen eventually
yes
We will give up a big play or two or three.
The hope is that we limit those big plays enough to have OUR big plays mean more on the scoreboard. We all watch football to see the big play, the hope is that the Chiefs come out the other end of the game with more points on the scoreboard. Maybe we should worry about Succop losing his game over the off-season. God Forbid
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on May 15, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I think what they are looking for
Is the big plays to be 15-25 yards given up instead of 40-60. Make 3 big plays equal the one we gave up last year. Again, that is two more opportunities to make a play or the offense to screw up.
Off season for all my teams right now...sigh! Come on football!!
Good post
great analysis.
Following the Chiefs more than I should be between late nights at a social networking software start up.
I just think we need to develop that nasty, winning attitude. Even with more added talent from this years draft, we need the belief and swagger of a winning team, and there’s only one way to do that and it is plain winning. I love what they have done, but one more offseason of draft and free agents and I think we will be the REAL deal in NFL to contend with
by ROG3R on May 15, 2010 10:56 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Here is what i like.
These guys seem to study every angle and look at all possibilities, After the draft Haley was talking about they looked at what positions were most responsible for big plays, and addressed those psoitions. I just feel good about how much these guys actually know as opposed to taking wild ass guesses
.
by teabaggingexper on May 15, 2010 11:24 PM CDT reply actions
the big play
It’s like the homerun in BB
The PK in futball
The ACE in tennis
The fastbreak points in BB
The SLAMMER in PP
The KILLTACULER in Halo
…eliminate the big play
Love this way of thinking! We are VERY smart as a whole now from top to bottom. I feel confident for us in that alone.
Only people who carry the opinions of others need the support of others.
by Peyote on May 16, 2010 4:52 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Wow...front paged! Thanks
And thank you all for your compliments. Wish I could spend more time in the conversations on here, but money making prevails. AP is much more fun however!
Off season for all my teams right now...sigh! Come on football!!
Yeah, ya haveta budget your time for this stuff.
Hate to say it, but there’s definitely a negative correlation between blogging and living in the real world!

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