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What's the deal with Nose Tackle?

Vince-wilfork_medium

via www.boston.com


We made a big deal about NT here on AP prior to the draft, we argued over whether Mt Cody would be good or not, we got to know players like Troup who were at the Senior Bowl.  We wanted to trade for Vince Wilfork.  But what I don't ever remember was looking at our roster and seeing what we got.  It was pretty much, well our run defense was horrible, so we must need a new Nose Tackle.  Well, let's go back and take a look at what we got.  It may be enough that it's not a huge need afterall.

 Kansas City's run defense was not something enjoyable to watch last year, to say the least.  Part of the problem was youth, Tyson Jackson seemed to get pushed around alot in his first year in the league.  While he did seem to improve as the year went on, we really need to see him step up this year.  On the other side, Glen Dorsey actually looked pretty good.  It was very noticable, that when he didn't play, the run defense suffered.

Then onto the Nose. 

Ron Edwards

Ron Edwards, 6'3" 315 lbs, has been the incumbent.  While he has done an adequate job, I think he is reaching the tail end of his career.  This play against Ben (insert pun here) (nice pick Cowher) was memorable:

 20091123steelers_330_medium

via www.post-gazette.com

Defense Stats
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF REC INT YDS TD
2001 BUF 7 10 7 3 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0
2002 BUF 16 39 24 15 0 2.5 2 0 0 0 0
2003 BUF 5 6 4 2 0 0.5 1 0 0 0 0
2004 BUF 16 21 13 8 0 4.0 0 0 0 0 0
2005 BUF 4 6 4 2 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0
2006 KAN 16 20 15 5 1 2.5 0 0 0 0 0
2007 KAN 16 26 23 3 1 3.0 0 0 0 0 0
2008 KAN 16 9 9 0 0 1.0 0 0 0 0 0
2009 KAN 16 29 24 5 3 0.0 0 0 0 0 0
Career 112 166 123 43 5 13.5 3 0 0 0 0

Star-divide

Unfortunately, Ron was part of a Chiefs defense that was horrible against the run last year, to shore up that defense, Pioli has brought in Shaun Smith 6'2", 325 lbs, great size for a NT!!!!

Shaun Smith

 Large_610x_medium

via blog.cleveland.com

Per KCChiefs.com -

Smith (6-2, 325) has played in 63 games (27 starts) with New Orleans (2004), Cincinnati (2004-06, 2009) and Cleveland (2007-08). He has produced 196 tackles (92 solo), 2.0 sacks (-20.0 yards), three passes defensed and two forced fumbles. Smith registered a career-high 63 tackles (28 solo) with Cleveland in 2007. He has also seen action in two playoff contests with Cincinnati. Smith originally entered the NFL as a rookie free agent with Dallas in 2003 and spent time on the Cowboys practice squad that season.

SacksInterceptionsTackles
YearTeamGSacksYdsLIntYdsIntTDSoloAstTotal
2003 Cowboys 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2004 Bengals 3 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 2
2004 Saints 5 0 0 0 0 0 9 3 12
2005 Bengals 13 0 0 0 0 0 25 8 33
2006 Bengals 13 0 0 0 0 0 10 4 14
2007 Browns 15 2 20 0 0 0 62 14 76
2008 Browns 11 0 0 0 0 0 36 10 46
2009 Bengals 3 0 0 0 0 0 8 5 13
career Total 64 2 20 0 0 0 152 44 196

 

Smith had a GREAT year in 2007.  The problem is that was three years ago, and he has never played all 16 games in his career.  While he could potentially be a good rotational player with Edwards, I think we still haven't found the answer.  The news I could find on him involved a fight with Ocho Cinco, a fight with Brady Quinn, and Bengals fans not really less than not interested in having him back.  http://www.cincyjungle.com/2009/12/8/1191331/bengals-reportedly-interested-in  Maybe Romeo has his guy here, but it seems like a hope and a prayer from what I can find.

Derek Lokey

Roymiller_medium

via alt.coxnewsweb.com

Speaking of a hope and a prayer, it's really hard to find news on this guy, but I really like what I can find.  Some have discussed moving Glen Dorsey to NT, even Herm Edwards said he can do it.  I believe that Dorsey is finally comfortable in a position, and we should leave him there.  Especially when we have a better option already on the roster.  Prior to the 2008 draft. Derek Lokey, 6'1" 300 lbs. was actually compared to Glenn Dorsey, (although Lokey was projected as a 7th round pick).  Here's the comparison - 

http://rootzoo.com/articles/view/NFL-Football/NFL-General/The-2008-NFL-Draft-Sleepers_3420 (Check the link, it has a great writeup of Brandon Flowers)

Here's a quick comparison (Pro Day results)

Glenn Dorsey
Glenn Dorsey
40 yard Dash; 5.12
20 yard Dash; 2.98
225 lb Reps; 27
Vertical Jump; 25 1/2
Broad Jump; 8' 4''
20 yard Shuttle Run; 4.80
3 Cone Drill; 7.52
--------------------------------- (The bold indicates a better time/number)
Derek Lokey
Derek Lokey
40 yard Dash; 5.18
20 yard Dash; 2.94
225 lb Reps; 38
Vertical Jump; 33 1/2
Broad Jump; 9' 4''
20 yard Shuttle Run; 4.37
3 Cone Drill; 7.57

Why am I comparing him to Dorsey? Because Dorsey is ranked as the #1 DT on ALL scout reports. I haven't been able to find a scouting report that has Dorsey ranked below #1. As you look at the comparison, Derek did much better than Dorsey at most of the events. With that said, I think it's fair to say Lokey is much more athletically gifted than Dorsey.
Derek Lokey is very, very strong. One of the strongest defensive tackles in this class. He is a reliable guy who never really gets injured. He has a little bit of Tyler Hansbrough in him, a non-stop motor that never stops. He is pretty much like every other defensive tackle when it comes to speed and quickness. NFLcountdown.com has stated that he "is not a great athlete", but I beg to differ. With his outstanding workouts, I think it's a pretty stupid thing to say. Plus, with his extreme passion and intensity, he delivers.
He is mainly a run stuffer and not a pass rusher (3 sacks in his career). At Texas, he was part of a line that allowed 99.8 yards per game. That ranked 10th in D-1 college football. He's even came and played full back in goal line situations (a little bit of Mike Vrabel in him...gotta love the versatility). Teams that need help stopping the run should look at him in the forth round because I think he could be good in the NFL. He'd be a great pickup for teams like Denver, Oakland, New York (Jets), and especially Kansas City.

 Lokey has been on and off of the practice squad and suited up for three games, maybe this year is the year for him?????

Garrett Brown

hat

That brings us to the last NT to join the Chiefs, undrafted free agent Garrett Brown, 6'2" 320 lbs.  I love this guy.  Here's a recent post http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/4/25/1443758/chiefs-shaky-nose-tackle-situation

ESPN has a great writeup as well

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/2484/minnesota-s-brown-adjusts-on-the-fly

My favorite part -

He grew up playing hockey and lacrosse, spending 10 years on the ice and eight on the lax field. When Brown started high school in Fairfield, Conn., he seemed intent on pursuing one of those sports in college.

"That definitely changed quickly once I found out what a cheeseburger and weights were," Brown said.

Sounds like Romeo’s kind of guy!

So what do you guys think, an outsider, say a Charger fan, would probably say we stink at NT, but as a Chiefs fan, you got to believe one of these guys, or a rotation of these guys can do the job.

Poll
Who would you like to see as our starting NT?
Ron Edwards
10 votes
Shaun Smith
115 votes
Derek Lokey
43 votes
Garrett Brown
51 votes
Trade all of next years picks for Mt Cody - these guys can't cut it
11 votes
Other - explain in the comments
21 votes

251 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 43 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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I commented earlier on another thread...

That I didn’t understand the Shaun Smith infatuation on AP.

Frankly, who the starter is doesn’t matter, my guess is it will be Edwards, but it will likely be a rotation.

My guess is the long term answer (post 2010) isn’t on the team.

Also…when reading your title, I can’t help but saying it in the Jerry Seinfeld voice.

by kcsno56 on Apr 28, 2010 11:45 PM CDT reply actions  

lol. Yeah I picked up the Seinfeld voice too.

“What’s the deal with Nose Tackle. Is he actually tackling the nose” Seinfeld impression. He would actually say something funny though

Welcome to the chiefs community Eric Berry. Don't screw it up.
Pioli's one mistake, not taking Terrence Cody

by trentchiefsfan on Apr 29, 2010 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

haha...I thought it was funny

Official Member: Eric Berry Fan Club
Tweet me @GiftNate
N. Gift

by giftedchiefsfan on Apr 29, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Really? I was trying to be lame, but ok. I'll roll with it

Welcome to the chiefs community Eric Berry. Don't screw it up.
Pioli's one mistake, not taking Terrence Cody

by trentchiefsfan on Apr 29, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

It will most likely be a rotation between Smith and Edwards.

We might line up in a few more 4-3 sets, but 3-4 will be the focus. Haley might implement Arizona’s hybrid defence, playing both 3-4 and 4-3

Welcome to the chiefs community Eric Berry. Don't screw it up.
Pioli's one mistake, not taking Terrence Cody

by trentchiefsfan on Apr 29, 2010 12:05 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

I’m hoping we see Dorsey slide inside to be the penetrating DT and we put Gilberry on the RE for the 4-3 set

by dudebuddyrage on Apr 29, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

rotation for sure

I don’t have anything to back this up…

but my memory says Edwards and Tank were doing a decent job in a rotation before Tank was traded.

Edwards struggled to play EVERY snap… but in a rotation with Smith, the two of them could equal a pretty decent NT, IMHO

this should be the most exciting Chiefs team in years! Most all major needs filled with playmakers, and the league's best coaching staff... 10-6?

by stagdsp on Apr 29, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like to believe the question will be answered

through free agency.
Where in the world is John Henderson? Not that he’d be our NT or even a DE, but it’d be nice to know what’s going on.

by Chief Willie Wildcat on Apr 29, 2010 12:51 AM CDT reply actions  

looks like Atlanta and KC dropped out of the race at the same time...

appears to be over $$$…Falcon blogs are saying he wants a 2-year, 12 million dollar deal (can’t find a source for that). IF that’s true, no way GMSP would make that deal. too old with declining skills…Carl probably would have paid him that much, but not Pioli,

by bansky on Apr 29, 2010 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

well if that is true...

that’s a better deal than he had with the Jags. Not even sure Carl would have paid that. There’s a lot of if’s involved, but if that’s the case, I can’t blame Pioli for saying, “don’t bother booking a flight to KC.”

by Chief Willie Wildcat on Apr 29, 2010 5:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

coupla points, if I may

first off, why do they have 40 yd dash times for NTs? maybe a 4 yd dash time would be ALMOST appropriate … but that’s about it

secondly, I’ve noted this going around a LOT lately …

Some have discussed moving Glen Dorsey to NT, even Herm Edwards said he can do it

and what I’d like to know is this: why is it that 90% of AP has slammed Herm non-stop for the last however many years (and I’ve been one his FEW supporters) … but now he says something our Koolaid Drinkers WANT to hear and all of a sudden his word is gospel???

what gives with that, AP? it’s ok to hate the guy and call him every name in the book because he’s such a TERRIBLE coach and almost as bad on ESPN or wherever, but now he says something you guys LIKE and he’s a positional genius … sorry, that smacks of hypocrisy in my book

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Apr 29, 2010 1:02 AM CDT reply actions  

40 times for NT are extremely important....
why do they have 40 yd dash times for NTs?

First we need to know how long the tremors and aftershocks will last

and all of a sudden his word is gospel

Herms words fall more on Gnosticism than they do gospel.

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Apr 29, 2010 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

thanks, PC

… I’ll call Homeland Security in case one of them triggers an earthquake

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Apr 29, 2010 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I suggest don't

They’ll send those guys with the funny maroon T-shirts thats got a big 2010 printed on front of them

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Apr 29, 2010 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Herm drafted him

I respect his opinion on this one

by cpa913 on Apr 29, 2010 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Herm knows nothing about a 3-4 defense.

He wouldn’t know a good nose tackle if he was standing right in front of him.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Apr 29, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

hypocrites.

I slam Herm for being a horrible head coach. Do i think Herm can coach up some DBs? Yes. Do i think Herm can find and evaluate talent? Yes. Do i think Herm has any business being anything more than a scout or DB coach? No.

Herm was a god awful HC, his gameplans sucked, his lack of halftime adjustments made me want to puke, and his overall philosophy would be better suited for highschool ball. But like i said, i think Herm has any eye for talent and if he says Dorsey can play NT then i might be somewhat inclined to believe him.

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Apr 29, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I have to admit

I like Lokey. I thought he did a nice job of holding his ground last preseason, the times I was focusing on him anyway. He’s likely a long shot to make the team, but I’ve always had a thing for the underdogs.

by bh13 on Apr 29, 2010 1:13 AM CDT reply actions  

if Smith can put up 2007 numbers

I would be happy and hope that he can be a little more than a one year stop gap.

Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.

by jrcnc on Apr 29, 2010 5:51 AM CDT reply actions  

very nice writeup by the way cpa rec'd

Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.

by jrcnc on Apr 29, 2010 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Go with Smith

Let Edwards be depth or just cut him.
Allow Lokey and Brown to get rotations and we will see who wants it more.

Chiefs are going to surprise alot of people in 2010 !!!!
BRING ON THE OTA'S, MINICAMPS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by ChiefsMonster on Apr 29, 2010 7:25 AM CDT reply actions  

Wow

Brown plays defenseman in hockey!!
This guy has endurance which I would hope to think he could develop into a 3 down player!
Plus 310lbs on skates means balance, motion coordination, and a set of seriously strong ankles that should be perfect for gaining leverage.

Chiefs are going to surprise alot of people in 2010 !!!!
BRING ON THE OTA'S, MINICAMPS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by ChiefsMonster on Apr 29, 2010 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess 310 lbs guys have problems switching lines from the bench?
Plus 310lbs on skates means balance

Is that similiar to Bears on Unicycles?

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Apr 29, 2010 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Shaun Smith may surprise

For all of those clamoring for John Henderson to be signed, take note . . . Shaun’s 76 total tackles in 2007 was better then Big John’s best year in 2004! Now I know he has been injured and not as consistent but even in 2008, his 46 total tackles is quite good. I think we are better off than everyone thinks . . . (and yeah, I’d still take Big John in a heartbeat for the right price!)

John Henderson

Year – G – Tot – Tkl – Ast – Sacks
2002 – 16 – 53 – 44 – 9 – 6.5
2003 – 16 – 56 – 45 – 11 – 3.5
2004 – 16 – 75 – 62 – 13 – 5.5
2005 – 16 – 70 – 52 – 18 – 3.0
2006 – 16 – 51 – 38 – 13 – 3.5
2007 – 15 – 38 – 28 – 10 – 2.0
2008 – 14 – 44 – 34 – 10 – 2.0
2009 – 15 – 36 – 26 – 10 – 3.0
TOT – 124 – 423 – 329 – 94 – 29

by Dallas Chief on Apr 29, 2010 8:58 AM CDT reply actions  

Other

I say let them sort it out in camp! May the best man win!

Official Member: Eric Berry Fan Club
Tweet me @GiftNate
N. Gift

by giftedchiefsfan on Apr 29, 2010 9:34 AM CDT reply actions  

As I said in a fanpost I put up last Sunday:

The Chiefs are comfortable enough with Smith to have him start at least this year. They’ll continue to look for better options, but Shaun Smith was a security blanket for us. A stop gap. They had to have been confident in Smith’s ability for at least the short term, otherwise he wouldn’t be here.

2/3 of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Eric Berry.
I guess now we KNOW how Pioli feels about safeties that high... hahahaha

by Red N Gold Beast on Apr 29, 2010 11:12 AM CDT reply actions  

I've heard a lot of people make this argument, but I'm not sure why

Edwards, right now is the starter. Smith is here for depth and to challenge for playing time. Could Smith earn the job? Theoretically, yes, but there haven’t been any quotes (nor would you expect any) that would make anyone think the job is Smith’s.

by kcsno56 on Apr 29, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

All listed are awful.

First of all you myst not have watched the chiefs last year Ron Edwards was awful.He’s the reason Casey Weigman came to the Chiefs.Haley and co. watched the 270lb. center repeatedly take Ron to the woodshed.Ron can barley hold his own AGAINST 1 BLOCKER LET ALONE 2.

by J ray on Apr 29, 2010 2:38 PM CDT reply actions  

If you compare Shaun Smith and Edwards career stats....

anyone would draw a conclusion from those alone that Edwards is a better NT.

"Ninety percent of this game is half mental." ~Yogi Berra~

by TheK-man on Apr 29, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

http://www.nfl.com/players/ronedwards/profile?id=EDW653314

Edwards numbers aren’t exactly impressive, plus he played in a 4-3 the majority of his career.

That being said, I don’t think you can really turn to stats to judge a NT. We’re just going to have to wait and see them play this year for a fair comparison.

by bh13 on Apr 29, 2010 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's beginning to look like we are just a franchise NT away from Superbowl contention.

I hope Pioli knows something we don’t about where our NT is coming from.

"Ninety percent of this game is half mental." ~Yogi Berra~

by TheK-man on Apr 29, 2010 5:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Rec on the post CPA

might have been a very good pre draft post too.
Might have forwarned us that the NT position might not be an area of need as I and many others thought.

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Apr 29, 2010 5:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Interesting take

I look at this post and think more than ever we need a NT.

by kcsno56 on Apr 30, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I tried to be positive in the outlook, and there are some positives. However, we are either hoping that veteran players on the wrong end of their career can step up, or very raw young talent steps in and gets the job done. I’d love to see that, but you can’t count on it.

I look for us to bring in another FA or two over the summer, or after the rosters are trimmed to 53.

by cpa913 on Apr 30, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

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