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What a Difference a Year Makes

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Last year Scott Pioli selected Tyson Jackson from LSU with the #3 pick in the NFL Draft.  A pick that wasn't on anyone's radar unless the Chiefs traded down. 

Fans where shocked.

And why shouldn't they be.  Tyson Jackson was slotted by many NFL Draft experts to go anywhere from pic 12 to pic 15.  Anyone that follows the draft knows that picking a player slotted that low at #3 is going to be called a "reach".  And that is just what a lot of fans said.

What a difference a year makes.

After all the puzzled looks about taking a player that was slotted that low at the #3 position, a large number of Chiefs fans are clamoring for Scott Pioli to "reach" come this April.

2010 College Prospects

D. Williams
R. McClain
D. Bryant
T. Cody
projected 15-25 projected 11-15
projected 12-15
projected  20-42

 

*projections based on mock draft reviews and player projections.

Star-divide

Most everyone in Chiefs nation thinks Scott Pioli is a man with a plan.  That plan directs his evaluation and selection of college players despite where someone else has "slotted" a particular player.

But what about the fans?

Often times fans appear to be just as erratic as the general managers they complain about.  One year they want a player because the Chiefs are in great need at a particular position.  Then the next year they state you can't "reach", you must take the best available player.  So, which is it?

There would seem to be four prevailing philosophies out there.

  1. Draft the best available player.
  2. Draft for need.
  3. Draft for need when the player you like is a reach and draft the best available player when the player you like is the best available player.
  4. You don't have a philosophy but you will know the player when you see him. (aka my wife)

So what are fans supposed to think?  Do you pass on game changing talent just because it is not a player of need?

2010 College Prospects

I. Suh
G. McCoy
R. Okung
Eric Berry
B. Bulaga
projected 1-5 projected 1-5
projected 1-5
projected  5-10
projected  5-10

 

*projections based on mock draft reviews and player projections.

The players above are all thought to be value picks.  There has been some question about whether a safety should be taken at #5.  But there is no doubt that Eric Berry has game changing talent.

Last year many fans wanted to reach for a verity of different players.  They wanted what they considered, need.  After the selection of Tyson Jackson some fans tried to justify the pick by stating...

The supposed deficiency of our offensive line is blown way out of preportion.  In my mind, the addition of Mike Goff to RG will do wonders for us. He’s not a superstar player, but he’s a rock solid anchor for that position. He will drastically improve Rudy Niswangers play at Center.

AP member post

Now that Niswanger has a full year under his belt AND Goff and Waters surrounding him, I have a feeling he’s gonna do just fine.

AP member post

We probably all agree that the cornerstone of any of these philosophies is proper position evaluation.

The more one ponders the more it becomes evident that there are problems with holding any of the philosophies above.  If you draft the best available player then you are simply selecting whomever falls to you.  I don't know about you, but I don't like my GM being a reactionary manager.  The proactive style always seemed to draw me more.

How affective is drafting with a reactionary style in the long run, anyway?  It would seem that you end up with a hodgepodge of "best available players" with no continuity.  Sounds like the Redskins to me.

The Redskins are filled with "best available players" (granted a lot of them were free agents) that have no cohesion.  Where is the Mike Vrabel on the Redskins?  Where is the Larry Foote?  Where are the Tyson Jacksons?  The players that hold it all together.

Drafting for need doesn't seem to be much better.  If you draft for need you would seem to pass on a lot of game changing talent.  I don't know what you think but it seems to me that game changing talent wins Super Bowls.  You know, the mismatches.  The, we can't handle that guy.  The difference makers.

How many teams in the NFL have passed on a franchise quarterback because they thought they had a decent "game manager" and had other needs?

It would seem that each philosophy has its drawbacks.

So, do you go with value? Or do you go with need?

And will the answer be different next year?

 

 

 

Past Bewsaf Posts:

Last 4 Posts
Research Articles Satire/Other Player Evaluation

*A.P. Fanz Diagnosed with Mock Draft Orgasmic Disorder (satire)

*Critics Say You Don't Move Offensive Lineman In The NFL

*For the Ship with No Port, No Wind is Favorable

*Once Upon A Time - A Turn Around

*We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us

*Historical Draft Reactions of Three Floundering Teams

*Should Floundering Teams Shoot the Moon for a Franchise QB?

*Is Taking a QB in Rounds 2-4 the Answer?

*The Kansas City Chiefs are Taking Applications

*A Fans Letter to Clark Hunt (venting humor)

*A Chiefs Fan Obituary (satire)

*A Chiefs Dear John  (rated R)

 

 

*What You Look For in an NFL Offensive Lineman - The Basics

*If You Can't Beat Them...Zone Them

*Breaking Down the O-Line - Season Review

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This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 35 comments  |  7 recs  | 

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Both.

Projections are (for the most part) BS. If you want a player, and he more than likely won’t be around at your next pick, I don’t consider it a “reach”. If we decide Player X, who is projected between 20-25, is the guy that we absolutely want, and we can’t trade down, pick him.

I don’t like this “not worth the #5 pick” stuff that the media puts out there. So few players are worth that pick. Why pick a guy that everyone says “should” go in that position when you can pick the guy you truly want?

Nice post, Bewsaf!

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Mar 30, 2010 1:44 PM CDT reply actions  

exactly right
If you want a player, and he more than likely won’t be around at your next pick, I don’t consider it a "reach".

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense

by stagdsp on Mar 30, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey stag

Can you email me your Patriots pick at 22?
I have GB at 23 and I want to finish my post.

craig.zaychkowsky@servus.ca

"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.

by craig in calgary on Mar 30, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

done, thanks

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense

by stagdsp on Mar 30, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

rec'd as usual, Bews ... good points to ponder
So, do you go with value? Or do you go with need?

the short answer, of course, is … “yes”

fine line to tread there, my friend … I think your comment about proactive as opposed to reactionary says it best: have a plan and stick with it

loved the posts from a year ago about how good Goff was going to be … shows how much, or little, we really know (myself included)

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 30, 2010 1:53 PM CDT reply actions  

I like the proactive

it shows you have a plan…or pretend to have one.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Mar 30, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whistleblower!
The supposed deficiency of our offensive line is blown way out of preportion. In my mind, the addition of Mike Goff to RG will do wonders for us. He’s not a superstar player, but he’s a rock solid anchor for that position. He will drastically improve Rudy Niswangers play at Center.

by ChiefDJ on Apr 27, 2009 4:47 PM MDT

Now that Niswanger has a full year under his belt AND Goff and Waters surrounding him, I have a feeling he’s gonna do just fine.

by Vince D on Apr 27, 2009 7:06 PM MDT

"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.

by craig in calgary on Mar 30, 2010 1:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Deep throat discovered

I didn’t keep that source secret for very long.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Mar 30, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

This made me chuckle
The Redskins are filled with “best available players” (granted a lot of them were free agents) that have no cohesion. Where is the Mike Vrabel on the Redskins? Where is the Larry Foote? Where are the Tyson Jacksons? The players that hold it all together.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Mar 30, 2010 1:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Not sure about Tyson holding it together?

He sure wasn’t the “best available player”

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Mar 30, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

he was absolutely a NEED pick

best avaible player AT HIS POSITION

thus, the reason I contend that Pioli doesn’t pick based on “positional value” as people keep saying…

He drafts for NEED or VALUE, depending on the board, and the state of the franchise

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense

by stagdsp on Mar 30, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

He sure wasn't best player available but...

Just because he reached doesn’t mean TJAX hold anything together…he may very well be a huge bust. I’d let his prove something before calling lableing him as one of thoes unflashy players that hold D’s together.

I do agree that Jackson was drafted to do just that, sort of. But in no way has he shown that he can.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Mar 30, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

You mean it's not a FACT that Eric Berry is Superman?

Ready to leap tall buildings… run faster than a locomotive… and stop speeding bullets? Back to the drawing board then. Scott Pioli can set his board any way he wants. As long as it brings real results in the next few seasons, he can have Chuckles the Clown up there at number one. Just don’t draft him. His forty time sucks in those floppy shoes.

Rac’d Bewsaf! (and Chop)

We are building a fighting force of extwaordinary magnitude.

by Ozarks on Mar 30, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh no, he's definitely Superman.

I think what Porkchop is getting at is that we might be looking for someone more like a Wolverine or an Iron Man. Maybe even a Batman.

2/3 of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Eric Berry.

by Red N Gold Beast on Mar 30, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec Chop

totally agree :)

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 30, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remember the Reggie Bush non-pick

Houston was lambbasted for passing on him. Don’t get me wrong, he is dynamic. But he has not shown to be a number #1 pick in the NFL draft.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Mar 30, 2010 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Value is relative to Need

I mean if you have Peyton Manning why draft a QB. Pioli has shown he will draft for what he believes are the players he thinks conform to his ideal of a solid team. We as fans might not agree with him, but then he’s the one who is getting paid to do the job and with every pick puts his job on the line. At least he doesn’t pick a WR every year with his #1 pick like Matt McMillen, what a joke he was. I am a little worried hje might be drafting a defensive lineman every year with the #1 pick but what do I know. In 3 yrs time we will know for sure because at the end of those 3 yrs we will see the pattern of Pioli’s picks.

"It doesn't matter what you do in Life only that you do it the best you can. "

by sgthall on Mar 30, 2010 2:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Absolutely agree

Value is relative to need. Our needs weigh on how much we value positions or players. Everyone has different needs therefore every teams value of players or positions all vary.

Time to take back the AFC West
Go Chiefs

by King of the Cassel on Mar 30, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, if you have Peyton as QB you draft more QBs because...

…you have Bernard Pollard in the same division, which means twice a year you have a good chance to have your QBs knee destroyed.

…Or you get to score lots of long bomb touchdown passes due to blown coverages, so it’s a crapshoot.

by Boots 58 on Mar 30, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

didn't pollard open things up for Cassel

thus we got him, course if I had Manning I’d be drafting the best Oline I could

"It doesn't matter what you do in Life only that you do it the best you can. "

by sgthall on Mar 30, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

And hopefully at the end of three years or two he will have fixed the D-line.
Then, Fix another spot with on target precision

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 30, 2010 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd Bewsaf

And my answer is both.

I think we’re too quick to use the 2009 draft as a standard for how Pioli will pick players.

He was kind of forced into a corner because he didn’t have a 2nd round pick. Might that have caused him to change his strategy and reach value position over BPA? I think so.

I think we’ll get a better idea of what Pioli’s draft philosophy is after this draft. He has a little more room to move around this time.

2/3 of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Eric Berry.

by Red N Gold Beast on Mar 30, 2010 2:47 PM CDT reply actions  

I think you are right Beast

That is another interesting thing we will find out come draft day. What Pioli’s philosophy is with the Chiefs.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Mar 30, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good post bewsaf

Here’s the thing—The media has gotten ahold of the draft and changed the perception of it in the minds of fans. Because of the way they describe it, many fans now believe that the #1 pick should make the most money in his contract and so forth down the line. In reality, the poster who said that so few players are worth that money is right. In addition, it is often times 2-3 years before it can be determined exactly what that player truly was worth on draft day. This is why the contracts are written with incentives and portions that don’t pay out until certain benchmarks have been met. It would be interesting to see just exactly what percentage of their rookie contracts the top 10 draft picks each year actually realize. It really doesn’t matter though because the same fans that clamour for the sexy picks are the ones that hold the pick over the GMs head if the pick doesn’t work out. As a GM it is a tough place to be. The only way to win is to pick the sexy players that deliver. The number of those players seems to shrink every year.

by Aiken_Drum on Mar 30, 2010 6:04 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Thats good stuff Aik

Sounds like you would be for paying rookies by position/drafted round.

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Mar 30, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice post

Rec’d as always, always good reads

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 30, 2010 7:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks steve

are you the night watch?

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Mar 30, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Formula for Drafting

I see only one way to draft. Make a list of all draft prospects. Give them a rating, say 1-100. This rating could be reached in a number of ways, but would consider potential, skill, and knowledge of the player – not how much the team needs that position. Just a raw rating for each potential prospect.

Then do the same thing with the current members of the roster. Rate them 1-100.

Then when a draft pick comes up, find the guy available who represents the biggest improvement to your team.

In other words:

your QB is a 67 and the best available QB prospect is a 90 (maybe peyton manning was a 90). That prospect would represent an improvement of 23.

your RB is a 50 and the best available RB prospect is a 75. That prospect represents an improvement of 25. Pick that player.

Some might say that doesn’t take into account intangibles – but it can, if you include them however you want in the rating formula when evaluating current players and prospects.

CNN = ABC = NBC = CBS = FOX = Chris Mortenson Journalism

by nayjevin on Mar 30, 2010 8:16 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

you mean like the stats on madden

Member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
Snap the fucking ball Brodie!

by jakethesnake27 on Mar 30, 2010 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

hmm... gameday and blitz here, but it's been years

but my guess is it’s more like the stats on madden reflect talent evaluation.

CNN = ABC = NBC = CBS = FOX = Chris Mortenson Journalism

by nayjevin on Mar 30, 2010 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

This reminds me of how I draft fantasy football

which is detailed and technical – AND WORKS.

Rate all of the players from each position. If there are 12 teams in the league and you need 1, QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, then rate the top 12 QBs, 24 RBs, 36 WRs, and 12 TE’s. When it is your pick, decide who has the most value by taking the top player at each position and subtract the last guy’s rating on the list from the top guy (i.e. 1 QB rating – 12 QB rating). Of all the positions, draft the guy that has the highest differential.

Essentially, why draft Manning #1 overall if you can get Big Ben in the 5th who gets only slightly fewer points…etc.

Not sure if that is the same thing, but it seems like it.

If everyone worked as hard as me, I would be out of a job.

-Steve Nash

by Red Shadow on Mar 31, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

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