Peter King Discusses Scott Pioli, Eric Berry and the Dangers of a Top 10 Safety Choice
by Matt Conner on Mar 22, 2010 8:28 AM CDT
in 2010 Kansas City Chiefs Draft
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PrintA very, very interesting segment from Peter King just emerged this morning in Monday Morning QB. He takes on the (dangerous) idea of taking a safety in the Top Ten, even speaking about Eric Berry specifically, and bringing up a conversation between the Falcons GM Thomas Dimitroff and KC's Scott Pioli.
He starts here:
If I were an NFL team drafting high, I'd be very careful evaluating Eric Berry.
Some great insights on Pioli's thoughts after the jump:
And then reveals his working hypothesis here:
The Tennessee safety, obviously, is a rare prospect. But the history of safeties in terms of longevity and greatness at the top of the draft is very shaky. The nature of the position is smallish people throwing themselves around like linebackers, and that doesn't lend itself to long careers. The three best safeties to be drafted in the past decade -- Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu and Bob Sanders -- have missed 78 games due to injury in their 21 combined NFL seasons.
Want some proof? King discusses the history of recent guys termed "the next Ronnie Lott":
Berry looks like a top-10 pick, but the team that takes him is going to be picking against history. Of the four top-10 safeties this decade, none has had franchise-player impact: Sean Taylor (Washington, fifth overall, 2004), Michael Huff (Oakland, seventh, 2006), Donte Whitner (Buffalo, eighth, 2006), LaRon Landry (Washington, sixth, 2007). Taylor might have had franchise-player impact if he had not been gunned down three-and-a-half years into his career. But overall, the position justifies the caution lots of teams are taking with it.
But it's here with his conversation with Dimitroff that things get really interesting (and local):
Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff calls the safety-at-the-top-of-the-draft debate a conundrum. "It's been on my mind a lot lately," he said, "and I realize I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth here, but Berry's a really good player. It's been on my mind quite a bit recently. You want the good hitter with hip movement, able to turn and run, but then reality sets in. I was talking to [Kansas City GM] Scott Pioli about Berry, and I said, 'Scott, this guy's your pick.' And he said, 'You know how I feel about safeties that early.' And I understand.''
The conclusion?
I'm not saying Berry won't be a great player. Maybe he'll be Ed Reed. Maybe he'll know when to dish out the big hit and when to steer a player instead of seek-and-destroy. But the odds of him being great for a long time -- as opposed to the physical longevity of a tackle or defensive lineman or quarterback not subject to as many high-speed collisions -- are pretty long, based on history.
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Dimitroff and Pioli seem like pretty good buds
just hanging out chatting with each other talking about Tony G. and Berry. Who knows if that conversation even took place, that seems like to much info leaking out from our camp, you would figure Dimitroff would know better than to expose Pioli’s hand like that!
Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.
There has been a lot of talk on the board about this
Between the risk and the salary, I don’t see it at #5. If we can trade down a tad, then yes . . . And that is the plan but trading down is harder said than done.
dont expect to see that happening trading down
Cleveland will snag him regardless of the salary, so if he is there for us, why should we flinch at his salary? Its like i said the other day, picking at 5 is the punishment this team has to pay for the past drafts sucking, and our play being atrocious. Pick the BPA and pay the man to get us out of the damn top 10 in picks.
Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.
Whitner and Taylor haven't had franchise impact? and both Huff and Landry are at least solid to over average
if every 1/2 or 3 safeties you draft in the top ten is gonna be a Pro Bowler, then make the move haha. Thats really about as safe as it gets as far as any other position goes. You ever heard anyone say that about top 10 OL? QB? RB? LB? Nope nope and nope.
Take Berry
But you are paying that average player the money that a top-tier QB would be getting
Berry would be making as much, if not more than Cassel.
A great safety would improve the hell out of the KC defense, but would he have more impact on the team overall than the QB? I’m all for taking Berry, but Devil’s advocate is in my blood.
Question is what kind of impact would the QB have? The positive or negative impact?
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
True, but their salary should reflect the impact they can have
And a QB should always have the highest salary, as their great play or the lack-there-of is the single greatest determinant of a team’s success.
Never seen a team that was “a safety away” from greatness
Morning BRC...I understand your question...I am just going to stay quiet on it...
don’t need another controversy lol…I get ya’ though…
The New Orleans Saints?
I know that’s a drastic oversimplification, I just felt compelled to bring up Darren Sharper.
Not a top-tier QB
More like a top-drafted QB…or any other position drafted at #5-overall. The money is more dependent on draft position than playing position by a wide margin.
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by burntorangehorn on Mar 22, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Neither of those guys are in their prime
3 years ago, they were better. Not so much any more. I’d put them at #4 and #5 in the league.
Also think about it
Sanders is much more of an in the box/big hitter safety. Berry is better in coverage like Reed/Dawkins/Sharper. Can make the big hit but looks to get the ball for his team first.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but if you wanna compare college numbers
Thomas is a more instinctive ball hawk that made more plays on the ball than Berry did.
Look at their college career statlines and compare INT’s , Touches (tipped balls), and QB hurries.
If yer looking for the guy that ‘looks to get the ball for his team first’ then Berry is not in the drivers seat at safety. Thomas is.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 22, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I dunno
Most of that is because no one (NO ONE) would go close to Berrys side his senior year….
He also played in the Big-12
The conference is more “pass happy” than the more physical SEC.
The studs from the 2010 draft class will be: DT Ndamukong Suh, S Eric Berry, RB C.J. Spiller, RB Jahvid Best, WR Arrelious Benn, WR Golden Tate, WR Mardy Gilyard, OT Charles Brown, CB Kyle Wilson and S Chad Jones
which should be a poiont in his favor...not agaisnt him.
He’s faced more passes, and defended more routes.
But I’d kinda like to see some numbers that say the SEC throws far fewer passes than the Big 12.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but perception is not always reality. I’ll have to loot that one up.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 22, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a good point
And I dont know how much this is worth, but as a Husker fan, I was never concerned with where Earl Thomas was on the field. Sergio Kindle was the guy on that defense who scared me.
But two or three years ago, Michael Griffin was a guy who scared me when Nebraska and Texas played each other.
And I guess I have kind of forgotten about this, but maybe the most appealing thing about Earl Thomas is his upside since he’s a third year sophomore. Berry has played four years whereas Thomas has just two, which maybe gives Thomas a higher ceiling. I dont know.
The studs from the 2010 draft class will be: DT Ndamukong Suh, S Eric Berry, RB C.J. Spiller, RB Jahvid Best, WR Arrelious Benn, WR Golden Tate, WR Mardy Gilyard, OT Charles Brown, CB Kyle Wilson and S Chad Jones
I can't follow the logic there Braves. I admit their not AS good as 3 years ago..
But in Sharpers case, leading the entire NFL in interceptions and int’s for TD returns is pretty good in my book. If your the absolute best in the entire league, who cares how good you were 3 years ago? Your still the best overall at producing turnovers and points on turnovers. That’s the main function of a safety.
I do think Dawkins was a huge loss for the Eagles and a huge gain for the Broncos....
That guy, if nothing else, is a great leader. Maybe he doesn’t have a lot leftin the tank but he sure as hell gets that defense up every game.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
I thought the main function of a safety ....
was to make sure the defense doesn’t get beaten deep. Turnovers, and points from turnovers, are extremely valuable from any defender; but I was never a fan of a Deion Sanders type of player that provided big plays and missed the routine ones.
I’m not saying Sharper was bad last year. I’m just saying, in general, I need a safety that makes sure nobody ever gets past him. Ball-hawking is only one part of his job, and I don’t think it’s even the most important function. I just think it’s the flashiest.
Yeah, but that's the whole argument for Berry
He’s Flashy! He’s a big play maker! etc..etc…
I don’t agree at all that Berr is the best safety int he draft, or the right pick for the Chiefs. But most the Berry proponents rest their arguments on ‘big play’ ability…..even though Thomas did that better in college.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 22, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Most of the Berry love
comes from people who are basing their love on what the various amateur draft sites say (and most of them probably get their info from the 1-2 most prominent sites).
Predictions:
This year will be better
Oh, absolutely
Don’t get me wrong, Sharper’s still great, and he was the best by far this year (or in the last few years, for that matter). I just tend to put Sanders a notch ahead for his contribution to the run defense as well. Maybe that’s not the right way to judge them, though. Still, I won’t deny that INTs are the metric to grade them on. Point conceded.
Not to mention this is about higher 1st round picks, neither Sharper nor Dawkins were 1st rounders.
Sharper – 1997 2nd round (30th)
Dawkins – 1996 2nd round (31st)
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Its the longevity of these players that made them great
DB’s have some of the shortest average careers in the NFL. Can’t find the number for Safeties specifically, but CB’s have an average career of 2.94 years. Reference NYTimes story.
So many come out every year
Not all are Baily’s
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
The injuries aspect it very interesting.
I think that could really factor into it and if what Dimitroff said was anything near the truth it sounds like Berry will not be a Chief
Whatever
Just please don’t draft the 2nd or 3rd best OT in the draft at #5 overall.
Predictions:
This year will be better
I wouldn't have a problem with Okung
Based on his size & supposed athleticism he could end up being dominant at the position. I just don’t want to draft a LT with very little upside over Albert. I also don’t want to reach for a NT.
Predictions:
This year will be better
I do like Okung
I just don’t see a dominant tackle, no Joe Thomas tackle in this draft.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Okung has as much if not more potential than Thomas.
He has the smarts, skills, and measurables to absolutely dominate the LT position. He is just raw right now in run blocking. Something the ZBS helps mask.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm in agreement here
Okung’s another guy, along with Berry, Suh, and possibly McClain and McCoy, who would probably be a pretty good pick at #5.
The problem is that the people who don’t want KC to draft a safety at #5 have yet to come up with a better idea in the event that Okung’s not available. Suh or McCoy? Probably not worth the #5 pick if they’re going to be moved to nose tackle, yet would represent excessive investment at either end position if expected to move to end. Bulaga, D. Williams, and Cody? Big reaches if taken #5. Clausen or Bradford? Probably reaches that could be defended because of the position, but unlikely because of Cassel. That doesn’t leave much except McClain.
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by burntorangehorn on Mar 22, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
The raw skill
is the exact reason why I dont like him as much as I did Joe Thomas or Jake Long. Those guys were absolute beasts in college and as close to a “cant miss prospect” as you can get. Okung has potential to be great, but he’s not right now.
The studs from the 2010 draft class will be: DT Ndamukong Suh, S Eric Berry, RB C.J. Spiller, RB Jahvid Best, WR Arrelious Benn, WR Golden Tate, WR Mardy Gilyard, OT Charles Brown, CB Kyle Wilson and S Chad Jones
Okung will go to Detroit at #2
Rams will take Bradford at #1
Lions will take Okung because they have to protect their FRANCHISE QB. It will be an investment pick for the lions insuring Staffords health.
Tampa Bay will take Suh at #3
Washigton will take Clausen at #4 because Campbell is not the answer and Clausen has worked out of a Pro Style offense his whole college career.
That leaves the Chiefs with a choice of Berry or McCoy and I think they will take McCoy.
BUT
If Washington does not take Clausen then the Chiefs #5 becomes valuable for any team wanting Clausen and the Chiefs would trade out of the #5. Either way I would be satisfied with it.
Why would you take McCoy?
He wouldn’t have a spot on the Dline. We already have a McCoy type in Dorsey and a lot of people want to trade him. Drafting McCoy makes zero sense.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
I don't know anymore goblue...I imagine that this draft is still wide open and will end up being a
series of surprises and head scratchers….you?
I agree with that. The #5 HAS GOT TO BE an impact player of some kind and at that point Berry seems the best on the board.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
I have a stat for this statement
The three best safeties to be drafted in the past decade — Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu and Bob Sanders — have missed 78 games due to injury in their 21 combined NFL seasons." And how many of them have superbowl rings? Come on man these guys are difference makers that are proven winners. Berry is a risk worth taking, if you can call him a rick.
I should be a lawyer.......
thanks for the backing of the subject mushin. I will take a safty that gets hurt for a season (i would perfer him to stay healthy) and win a super bowl.
... and how many of those teams were playoff/ superbowl caliber teams...
before they drafted thier lock down safeties?
Go Chiefs!!!!
The thing is they all played on defenses with immense talent in front of them.
All of them have a premier pass rusher if not 2 and they all played on a team that was full of veteran leadership before they got there. Those guys came in and did their job that’s it. Berry would have to come in and be the leader as a rookie safety sorry but that isn’t going to work. The vet’s won’t respect a rookie.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly, the perfect player in the perfect place at the perfect time.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Safeties don't make defenses.
Defenses make safeties, period. Unless you have an elite pass rusher and you can stop the run then you have no business taking a safety in the 1st.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Yup.
Defenses makes safeties. You either don’t watch those guys up there play much or have a really short memory.
The Steelers proved just how staunch their defense was without Polamalu this past year when they went 2-7 this past year without him (including losses to the Bears, Chiefs, Raiders, Browns, etc.), forced fewer turnovers, gave up more yards in his absence, and fell out of playoff contention after his injury.
But, that’s clearly the case of the defense making the Safety and not the other way around, right?
Their defense suffered quite a bit, yes
But most of us know they didnt go 2-7 solely because the Flyin Hawaiin wasn’t on the field. You’ve seen how bad their OLine is — which has gotten progressively worse over the last couple seasons — and you’ve seen how bad their running game suffered for it. Oh, and their special teams gave up something like a return TD in 8 consecutive games (I think?).
Too many games had to be won by Ben’s arm. That’s why they went 2-7. It was a whole host of shit.
The Chiefs will see a return to respectability in 2010, emerging as the front runner in the AFC West! ....And I'll quantify that however I choose. Ahem.
by ArrowSpread on Mar 22, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
They didn't just lose Polamalu they also lost Aaron Smith their starting DE.
That is a huge loss in a 3-4 and it is the reason their defense suffer. Did they miss Polamalu, Of Course! But it wasn’t his ability to play it is his leadership. He is their leader on defense he is their emotion and heart. I watched Eric Berry and he didn’t come off as the emotional leader on the field. He seems like the quiet do his job kind of player, which i love, but lets remember you are expecting a rookie to come in and lead a team while he adjusts to the nfl?
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree and Disagree
Sure a safety does not make a defense, but you could also say that for every position on defense. However, I do believe that the safety position adds a huge exclamation point to your defense. If you have a safety that can cover the pass, and also able to tear your head off, it makes the receiver think twice about extending out to make a tough catch.
With the 5th pick in the 2010 draft the Kansas City Chiefs select Eric Berry of Tennessee!
Agreed
But it doesn’t have to be a top 10 safety pick. Most of the best safeties are drafted at the end of rounds. Coincidence that the best safeties are drafted at the end of rounds by the winning teams in the league
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Future
Why not take Berry? OK you need a good defense for Safety to shine (I agree) but do you pass on the best Safety now when there really isn’t a difference maker to take with the 5th spot. Or do you draft him and continue to build the defense in the coming years and have the star Safety already? It makes no since to pass on a player cause your defense is not ready for that player. If there was a better player to draft im all for it but there is not. McClain is not the answer..
Offical member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
So using that logic
we can’t draft McClain because he would be expected to step up and lead and is a rookie.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
Great NFL teams have a great safety!
I think the Chiefs pick Eric Berry at #5 in spite of conventional wisdom about "positional value".
Between the 2008 and 2009 NFL seasons, an analyst for NFL.com ranked the top 5 safeties in the NFL. I believe this list supports my stance that the Chiefs should draft Eric Berry at #5.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8111c44d&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true
#1, 2, 3 and 5 on the best safeties in the NFL list played for playoff teams that had a combined 45-19 record. Brian Dawkins is the exception, but he left a playoff team in Philadelphia for a Denver team that was/is rebuilding.
Pittsburgh and Arizona were in the Super Bowl and Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Tennessee battled it out for the AFC Championship with Baltimore knocking out Tennessee before being knocked out by Pittsburgh.
In the pass-happy NFL of today, a star safety is a critical building block of a championship team. Given the lack of an elite NT in this draft worthy of #5 and unless the Chiefs trade down for more picks, I think the Chiefs should draft Eric Berry at #5 in the first round.
by bbear200 on Mar 22, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
or you can argue they are the number 1, 2, 3 and 5 safeties because they play on top 10 defenses already.
Yes a safety is great but they are not needed. You know what helps stop a pass happy league? Hitting the QB in the mouth over and over again.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed Jon ... and football is won or lost in the trenches, on the lines ... you build from the line out
and our biggest need on DLine is NT, that’s our biggest need on Defense, period (IMNSHO) … we could have 4 Eric Berrys in the secondary, but it won’t stop the run and it won’t get to the QB
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Well, ...
it might stop the run, but it’s a little late if that’s how we’re going about it. I think most of us can make a fairly strong case for the importance of most positions on the field, and I personally put a lot of stock into defenders up the middle. That said, the opposing offense is most disrupted at the line. Every other defender’s job gets easier if the pocket is insecure.
The question is, are the Chiefs better off with Berry and an NT picked later, or Williams and a S picked later? Whichever is the best combined value is the one I hope Pioli picks, regardless of the history of success from the position.
+111111111111
Enough said!!!!! Superbowl Rings!
"Chiefs will go 9-7 in 2010"!
"Defense will improve to #10-15 in total defense"
"Cassel will throw 23 TDs and 11 INT's"
"Chief games will begin to sell out by week 4"
"The road to respectibility ends in 2010"
by casselreadychiefs on Mar 22, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Reed hasn't missed much time at all, at least until recently, if memory serves
Polamalu and Sanders are also much more the crash-oriented safeties than Reed has been in his career, or Berry or Thomas have shown to be in college.
Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.
by burntorangehorn on Mar 22, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Reed's also talking about retiring after 9 years.
So, you still are talking about a position that may not have the longevity of some of the others.
9yrs. is still pretty good
That’s still much longer than the average first-round draft pick starts for the team that originally drafted him, I believe.
Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.
by burntorangehorn on Mar 22, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering that the 'average' career in the NFL is only 3 years ...
… I’d say getting 9 out of someone is pretty dang good.
Yup,
Id take Berry for a very solid decade. Nothing wrong with that.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
I'm not saying 9 years is bad, but ....
if you talk about a top flight OT or QB you are usually looking at a longer career. Johnathan Ogden, Walter Jones, and Orlando Pace all played 12 years (technically Pace hasn’t retired, but ….). I would say Reed is as good a S as those guys were OTs. If the rigors of the position have caused him to believe he needs to retire 3 years ahead of those guys, then I would say there is some credence to King’s comments in the original post.
One question about Reed, Polamalu and Sanders
Where these guys considered able to play EVERY position in the secondary when coming out of college? Berry can. He’s that special.
But that raises the question of where to put him to maximize his potential and also.....
….will he ever be better than good at any of those positions when we need him to be great at one…… and the would be saftey.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Start him from day 1 at safety
Maybe for a corner blitz or a needed third he can shift to corner
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions
By that justification.
Albert Pujols can only play 1st base so he isn’t as valuable as Teahan because Teahan can play 5 positions.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Baseball doesn't equal football
No one cares where Pujols plays in the field. He’s a star because of what he does at the plate.
okay...
So i’ll go at it this way. Brett Favre only plays QB meanwhile Pat White can play QB and WR’er so he is more valuable. that better for ya?
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
If Pat White could play QB and/or WR as well as Favre played QB, then yes
Instead of White, think Deion Sanders. As KR/CB who was elite at both positions, he was worth every dime. And he got paid
and Pat White
is exceptional at neither. Still doesn’t compare. Berry isn’t simply a utility player, he’s a STUD safety that can be a STUD at other positions as well.
No he can't.
He hasn’t played CB at a consistent level to say that he can do that. Why would you want a rookie to not only adjust to the NFL but have to do it at 3 different positions.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying make him play 3 different positions
..but he doesn’t necessarily have to play safety. Some teams are projecting him as a possible cornerback. Just so happens the Chiefs need him at what he’s the most polished at. He gives some flexibility though if there are injuries in the secondary.
If I remember correctly...
Pujols began playing baseball at third base. At least I know he for sure did in the summer of 1999 when we played against the Hays Larks in El Dorado, KS and there was an absolute monster playing 3rd who went by the name of Albert Pujols.
In his young career he could play more than one position, but with age and time has settled into the 1st base position. I am sure Berry could do something similar.
With the 5th pick in the 2010 draft the Kansas City Chiefs select Eric Berry of Tennessee!
great, CLK ... he can play SS and FS and RCB and LCB
ok, now we have 4 positions on defense covered, so we only need 11 other guys … and he can play LB too, right? maybe all we need is Eric Berry and a Front Line because he’s JUST THAT GOOD
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Berry can?
Berry hasn’t even played ONE position in pro ball. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves and say that he CAN play all of the defensive backfield.
After all, Jamarcus Russell was going to be the savior that showed that the college spread-big pass game was viable in the pros.
Glenn Dorsey was going to eatup opposing QLinemen and be the next Warren Sapp.
etc..etc…
You or I can both name 10 guys that never lived up to what they were ‘supposed’ to be according to the general public/scouts/experts before the draft. Well… maybe that’s a lie. – You and I probably CAN’T name them, because they never made an impact worth remembering.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 22, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
J Russell sucks.. enough said there.
Don’t be so quick to write Dorsey off as not living up to his hype. If you expect a 2nd or 3rd year DLinmen to play like Sapp did in the prime of his career you are going to be dissapointed quite often. Give Dorsey another season or two before you say he hasn’t lived up to the hype.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
That wasn't my point...and i do expect Dorsey to continue to improve....
…..but Dorsey is not a strong armed double team eating type of player that excells at taking on 2 gaps. That was never his game in college. He doesn’t have ideal upper body strength, or the arm length that would let him extend to break off the blocker and hit his gap. Dorsey (in college) was a ‘quick first step’ guy that could shoot the gap and get to the QB. That’s not what he’s asked to do in the 3-4.
My comment was not ment to bag on Dorsey OR Russell. it was simply ment to point out that the VAST MAJORITY of players quoted as having ‘top 10 game changing’ talent’, or ‘can play multiple positions’ etc…. DON’T, and CAN’T. Everyone seems to forget that college football is merely a shell of what Pro-Ball is. People totally fall in love with one guy and start tossing around things like: "He’s a sure thing; He can play any position (when we don’t even know if he can play ONE); He’’ll be a pro-bowler by his 3rd year (He may bit even be around 3 years)…etc…etc…
We ALL need to slpow our collective roll’s a bit and realize that any of these guys could flop. None of them (1st rounders) are really even more, or less likey to bust than any other. The back alley’s of the NFL are riddled with so called ‘sure things’ and ‘obvious pro bowlers’ where they were uncerimoniously tossed out on the collective asses after proving that being one of the best ever to play college football amounts to NOTHING when you get to the NFL.
How’s Gholston working out for the Rams? Russell for the Raiders? How many sacks to Glenn Dorsey and Chris Long have combined now? Alex Smith in the hall of fame yet? What about Leinhart? Tamba Hali leds the league in sacks right…after all he was a 1st rounder… -
On a completely different note:
McCoy looks a lot like Dorsey in college. Hes a ‘quick first step’ guy that has unimpressive upper body strength and rarely ever plays 2 gaps.
Suh, on teh other hand, took on double teams almost every play. He ate teh double team and sat down in his spot while reading the play as it developed… THEN…when he dignosed the play he would use his exceptional upperbody strength and a collection of moves to push off teh double team and get to the ball carrier / QB.
I don’t understand anyone’s thought process when they say that Suh ‘absolutely can’t play’ or ‘would never excell as’ a NT. That’s precisely what his skill set looks like. – Take on teh double. Sit down in your place and don’t get driven out of the play. Read the play. Make a decision on your gap. Break off the double team and go make a play on the ball carrier/QB. That’s exactly what you ask a NT to do on every single play. Suh just happened to do it from 1 gap further down the line than a triditional NT. I’d have NO problem with trading UP in teh draft to get Suh, or trading BACK in teh draft for McClain, or sitting right where we are for a NT/OL/ILB. I’d much rather drop back out of the #5 slot, because there is no point in adding a play making safety to a defense that can’t stop the run, and an offense that can’t keep the QB upright. – Trenches first.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 22, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Work makes me miss so much Rec TC
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 22, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Well that just about does it
I mean if Pioli really thinks that and he really said that I don’t think there is any way he takes Berry.
It just isn’t how he operates. Maybe if he can trade back he will take him later but it doesn’t look good.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
yup, that was my first thought reading the end of the post ...
truth? lies? BS? grain of salt, anyone? in fact, chill that glass and get the bowl of saly, dip the end of the glass, pour the margarita, top it off with some lime, sit back and watch t he fun
Pioli will do what Pioli’s gonna do … let us pray it works out right
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
SHHHHHHHH
haha really I wouldn’t count on anything set in stone right now
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Bottom line is that without a really good NT, our defense will struggle. Berry or not.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Berry was a cornerback coming out of high school
So why didn’t he play corner in coillege?
Something I’ve wondered.
by alakan81 on Mar 22, 2010 9:09 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Terrence Newman wasn't a very good CB in highschool but was athletic enough that he had to be on the fiels somewhere....
…so he played saftey. Just saying.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Berry did play corner in College...
just not very often…
Go Chiefs!!!!
so, who the hell CAN he take at 5?
- Berry is a safety, if he passes on him…
- Suh is off the board, and not an ideal fit…
- Okung isn’t a big need, and could also be off the board…
- Haden has good tape, questions about speed…plus, if you can’t take Berry, how can you take Haden?
- Bulaga? 2nd best player at a position that isn’t a big need…
- Williams or Cody? Big reach, big bust potential, takes years to develop…
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense
by stagdsp on Mar 22, 2010 9:10 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
McClain?
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
by Patrick Allen on Mar 22, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
He doesn't look that good on tape though, does he?
H didn’t to me…but then again I’m not a talent evaluator.
Predictions:
This year will be better
McClain looks good enough on tape to warrant most professional experts have him as a top 10 talent.
These guys get paid to evaluate game tape and they say he is top 10 pick at ILB that says alot.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
yep, he does show up well on tape
And has the measureables…
But, then he’s an ILB… so, people will say that position isn’t worth it
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense
by stagdsp on Mar 22, 2010 9:18 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
In a 4-3 i would agree.
In a 3-4 having a presence at ILB is as valubale as having a great NT. Example: were McClain and Cody the keys to Alabama’s defense or their starting safeties… Umm that one guy and the other one.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
he COULD take ... *ahem* ... the only player better than Berry ... the one, the only ...
come on, you know who it is! {{grin}}
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
My opinion
Is our LBing core is not the weakest link on this team. Why draft somebody that is only going to upgrade a position, at most, slightly (if our current LBs weren’t getting blown up by OL they would have a better chance). Why not a Safety, NT, WR, OL? Makes sense to me. I mean I guess we could take a chance on a good QB and maybe upgrade that position a little, but it won’t be worth it.
With the 5th pick in the 2010 draft the Kansas City Chiefs select Eric Berry of Tennessee!
I was just composing essentially the same post :)
I couldn’t agree with you more.
Predictions:
This year will be better
Haden's speed questions don't exist. He was slow in a 40 yard dash.
He is fast on game film and that is all that matters. You can justify Haden over Berry because Haden played CB in the SEC while Berry has only played Safety in the SEC. CB is more important than safety
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
true, but pro day 40s are sometimes questionable
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense
by stagdsp on Mar 22, 2010 9:19 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Between game tape and pro-day, I think most scout's would be okay with it
Also, there was a rumor running around that Haden was gimpy during the combine. Not sure of the validity of it, but there it is.
Here’s the link: http://www.bustersports.com/blog/buster-blog/2010/03/12/2010-nfl-draft-joe-haden-ran-40-at-combine-with-back-sprain/
not really
nfl coaches timed him in the 4.4 range. Coaches tend to go on their own clocks, instead of the combine clock.
by Larryemcdaniel on Mar 22, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Who would you rather replace?
McGraw/Brown…or Flowers/Carr?
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you mean Page/ Brown
But i would rather replace Mays / Williams personally. giving up 200 yards on the ground is unacceptable.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
frankly no, not when those tackles happen after the RB gets 6 yards.
And yes i would rather have Dan Williams than Berry. NT and ILB are our biggest needs on defense. Especially considering there are 10 starting quality safeties in this draft.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Well then who was gonna make those tackles? It's not his fault that the d-line opens the flood gates.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
The d-Line should be addressed then.
You don’t build your last line of defense up first. You build up the point of attack and fortify that position then you focus on your backup plans.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly, so why "upgrade" Williams. Mays I get but not Demorrio.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
so why keep Dorsey then?
He’s transitioned to DE, but he’s a DT all the way, not an ideal fit for a 3-4. Shame we couldn’t get Seymore.
Thomas Jones and the Lombardi, DO IT!
Sure get rid of Dorsey.
I say keep him because he was 3rd in the league in tackles for 3-4 DE so clearly he is a 3-4 DE. He does his job as evidence by us getting ran all over by a 3rd string running back when he was out. Dorsey is not a part of the problem Jackson needs to mature. Our defense needs a NT and an ILB. Safety is an afterthought. IF you can’t stop a team from running right over you than how does it help having a safety that can pick off the 0 passes they throw.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
solid point
so what would you do with the 5th if unable to trade down? Reach for McClain? Is Cody going to be available at 2a?. Would you draft Thomas/Troup? Or is Shaun Smith the answer? Or would you take a S that can provide run support, is a ball hawk, and has exceptional hands? Since You can have a starting ILB for a 3rd in Morrison, or draft Spikes, then draft any one of the NT available in the 2-3 rounds, why not take Berry?
Thomas Jones and the Lombardi, DO IT!
There will be one NT available that will be ready to start and we will have to take him at 2a.
Cam Thomas at 2a is the only option. Cody won’t be there Williams will be long gone. Troupe is years off as well as all the other NT prospects. I personally would try and trade a 5th rounder to get Shaun Rogers from the browns. Him and Smith could stop gap the position and allow us to draft a rookie in the 3rd to develop.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
McClain or Berry at 5
but say at 2a both Thomas and Tate are available. Will Pioli let Tate slide by? I’d like to see us trade down, take Williams, Tate at 2a, and possibly Hughes if we swapped our extra 2nd (like in the MHR mock). Trade our additional 3rd for Morrison and draft a S in the 4th. Starting NT, WR, OLB, ILB, and a solid S. Still for the Rogers idea too. Blount and Kerry Meier in the 5th wouldn’t be awful either.
Thomas Jones and the Lombardi, DO IT!
Trading down would be prefered
And taking McClain would be fine by me, plenty of S in this draft, and reuniting Cody and McClain would be sick. Just thinking at #5 there are options available at ILB and NT, so taking the BPA isn’t something I’d complain about.
Thomas Jones and the Lombardi, DO IT!
I'd prefer Spoon to McClain ...
questions/concerns about McClain’s long-term health with the Crohn’s Disease …
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
agreed
Spoon is more of leader too
by irishking44 on Mar 22, 2010 10:35 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Why?
Cause he jaw-jacks all game long?
by alakan81 on Mar 22, 2010 12:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
did you watch the senior bowl
he was nuts all over the field.
by irishking44 on Mar 22, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you watch the entire season? McClain was even more impactful
Looking at the one tape that was posted on this site that encompassed just 4 games, and all of them while McClain had a hammy is not enough tape to make a sound case for or against him…
And looking at ONE game with a bunch of players that have never played together before on the same team, and 1 weeks worth of coaching, scheme designing, and game planning is certainly nt enough.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 22, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I was referring to your claim
That he is a better leader than McClain. Obviously something like that is subjective, so I’m just wondering what leads you to such a conclusion.
by alakan81 on Mar 22, 2010 1:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
i would hate the dan williams pick
Other than the fact that NT is a big need…
Williams looks no better than Tank Tyler, and he was only worth a 5th round pick
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense
by stagdsp on Mar 22, 2010 9:21 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't like picking a NT in the 1st either.
I’ve said multiple times i do not like the talent at the top of this draft and if we could somehow trade down even if it means picking in the mid 20’s it would be better. Our major needs aren’t in areas that warrant top 5 money.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I really do not get the talk about money
Yes he will get a pay day from somebody. If we can’t trade down, take BPA instead of reaching
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
thing is ... BPA is opinion and can change
and Pioli’s vision of BPA might be different than yours or mine
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
That's what I was referring to
We are not the GM, Pioli is he will pick the player he thinks will fit best.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not the number of tackles, it's where they are being made
117 tackles 20 yards down the field from the line of scrimmage is still 117 tackles.
I meant McGraw/Brown
Since they started the majority of the games
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
You're right Page got injured he shouldn't get his job back.
He is an above average safety. McGraw isn’t
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Settle down
I never said Page shouldn’t get his job back, infact I love the idea of Carr/Berry/Page/Flowers in the secondary
What I was referring to was during a majority of the games last year where was our weak link?
Let’s look at it a little different, Page/Brown or Carr/Flowers Haden or Berry who would you pick to replace a starter?
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
The real question is would i rather have.
Haden and then maybe Morgan Burnett in the 3rd or Berry and maybe Brandon Ghee in the 3rd. I choose Haden and Morgan Burnett.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Berry and A. Owusu-Ansah
Or Berry and maybe Kyle Wilson falls
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Kyle Wilson is a lock 1st rounder now.
He ran a great 40 time and showed well at the Senior Bowl.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
The facts are you can get a top notch safety talent in the 3rd round.
Top notch Cornerbacks don’t make it out of the second often.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
You're saying Burnett is as good as Berry?
Well wonder why he is not a top 3 talent in this draft too! Yes that is a joke.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Who's to say who will have the better career.
But yes i will say that Burnett is as “talented” of a safety. They both have very high ceilings Berry is just more polished of a safety.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't see that at all
gonna have to agree to disagree
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
BAMF, I love ya brother but Jon is right
bottom line is … the draft is a crap shoot, Haden might be better than Berry and someone loweer down might end be being better than both of ’em
come on, who’d have thought Succop would have the year the he did, last guy in the draft ends up being our bright spot … you just never know
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Oh I understood what he was saying
Just decided not to continue that when it was going no where haha
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
No doubt
I was a little pissed when he showed so well at the Sr bowl. Loved the guy as a 3rd rounder before then.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
they gave up 200 yards BUT
THE NOSE TACKLE IS THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE. The NT is the true reason for poor run defense…
by Larryemcdaniel on Mar 22, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
As I wrote yesterday. If Pioli has a guy in his sights…I hope he goes and gets him no matter what anyone thinks.
That being said, it is interesting how things are shaking out. A lot of talk going around how the safety and ILB are a reach (which we all knew from the beginning anyway).
I probably disagree that Suh is not an ideal fit. If you mean for a 3-4 system. In fact, I think he is a perfect fit for a 3-4 end and I actually think he can play NT with his combination quickness and strength.
Okung and Bulaga look to be the only “value” picks that will be at #5.
Who thinks the odds are swinging to the Chiefs taking an OT at #5?
Bewsaf
and I really don't like Bulaga ...
but Bews, you’re right (and I agree) … Pioli will take who he wants (or the next best thing if his guy is gone)
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
I like Okung better
But Bulaga has more of a nasty streak.
He gets it done with a little more tech. and a bad attitude (toward the opponent).
Bewsaf
I'll prolly throw something very heavy at the T.V. is we waste a pick on that problem child that hasnt played a game in over a year.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Mar 22, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
One argument that I haven't seen is the Tony Gonzalez argument
TG was taken at 13 instead of 5, so a little different, but all the arguments that can be made against taking a safety high in the draft can be applied to a Tight End as well. And we all know how that worked out.
I'm sorry but...
Couldn’t this be said about anybody in this draft. They’ll get injured what if they don’t make an impact. What if, what if what if what if its just all speculation… on sportscasters trying to fill air time. How many times have they been right in the past ten years?
I'm glad Scott Pioli is our gm, and most of you aren't.
To add to that, you never hear these arguments about a top 10 RB
And RB is the most injury prone position on the field
Top 10 running backs are becoming a thing of the past because of thier career span.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Wait till one with top-10 talent comes back
The last top-10 talent RB to come out of college was McFadden, and he went 4.
But he is the ceiling and was/maybe is the best RB to come out in the last several years.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
You also have to talk about team needs and injury history of AP himself
Teams that drafted before Minn that year:
Oakland- needed a QB (J. Russel)
Det- Millen needed a 43rd WR (C. Johnson)
TB- Had two starting RB’s in Dunn and Cadillac (G. Adams)
Arz- Played it safe, but could have taken AP (L. Brown)
Wash- Had Portis (L. Landry)
Minn was the first team, except for Arizona that was truly in a position to both need and be able to gamble on AP.
Whoops, left off Clevaland from that list who had just picked up Jamal Lewis
Drafted Joe Thomas instead of AP
Detroit should have taken AP, Megatron or not.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Yep. AP, to me, was about as sure of a pick as you could get. Injuries or not, he is a dominatnt RB.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
I would have jumped all over him, injuries or not.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
I would have too
just stating why he dropped. He was hurt a lot in college.
RB’s drafted in the top 10 the past few years:
2008 Darren McFadden #4
2007 Adrian Peterson #7
2006 Reggie Bush #2
2005 Ronnie Brown #2
2005 Cedric Benson #4
2005 Cadillac Williams #5
Bob Sanders
Was the whole reason the Colts won the SB. Remember how horrible their run D was. They got Sanders back for the playoffs and he was all over the freaking field. Their D was great in the playoffs.
And everyone should be able to see the difference Troy Polamalu makes for Pittsburgh.
These guys can make plays that turn the tide of the entire game.
Please help send my girlfriend to Broadway! Visit http://magonbroadway.blogspot.com/
I wonder how many games those guys missed over their first 6 seasons
Since that’s essentially what the length of Berry’s rookie contract would be. If you can get 6 great seasons out of a player, he’s probably worthy of a high pick…considering how so many bust.
Predictions:
This year will be better
He def was the reason they went to the SB and won
That defense ranked in the bottom of the league. As soon as he stepped in, their horrific run D improved greatly!
by Larryemcdaniel on Mar 22, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
PLEASE take an impact player!
It still stings a bit that we did not draft Curry last year! While I still have hopes for T.Jackson, we need absolute immediate impact players when drafting this early. I hope we can take berry. However, I trust even more the decision since Crennel has been able to see Berry up close and personal multiple times. I trust this whole group of Weis, Hayley and Crennel even more than the previous year. We have to get this right and I think we will, Berry or not!
"Chiefs will go 9-7 in 2010"!
"Defense will improve to #10-15 in total defense"
"Cassel will throw 23 TDs and 11 INT's"
"Chief games will begin to sell out by week 4"
"The road to respectibility ends in 2010"
by casselreadychiefs on Mar 22, 2010 9:19 AM CDT reply actions
King's reasons for these safeties getting hurt don't even apply to his theory.
He claims their career span is short because of throwing themselves at players, but both Polamalu and Sanders injuries were to their knees and had little to do with them “hitting guys”.
Back to the topic. Berry would probably be our best pick at #5 if the draft lays out like we think it will.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
see? see what all that Berry Koolaid has done to you?
your eyes are gone, no hair, bleached out your skull and even stripped the red paint off your helmet … but there’s help! The Betty Ford Koolaid Detox Center …
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Ya know what Ups? Kool-Aid was invented in Nebraska so suck on that! HAHAHAHA... I win.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
by BigRedChief on Mar 22, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
the thing is that we NEED a safety
Why not take the best player out there in the draft at a position he can instantly come in and take a starting role in? I mean aside from Sug/McCoy i think Berry is the pick. Maybe Okung, but i think he’s the #2 pick this year, even though he’s probably not a top 5 pick.
We needed a LB'er but not Aaron Curry.
He is DJ all over again…
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Was it on here or a different site
that everybody thought Curry was the second coming of DT?
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
3-4 DE's really are not paid that much beyond ours
we needed an end more than a LB, I don’t really think the contract mattered
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly, who the hell plays DE for us without TJacks?
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
Pioli didn't know that Magee would fall so far
As the Browns game showed, Magee really is not starting material anyways
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
The depth at Safety is ridiculous this year.
Darrell Stuckey is projected as a 4th rounder. He is a great SS that played in a pass happy conference and still made big plays all over the place. He would normally be a 2nd round pick.
The depth at other positions of need is far less. There are 3 NT’s that can start right away. There are 4 ILB’ers that are capable of playing over Mays right away. There are 10 safeties that could start and perform well.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
McClain is gone at 9,10, or 11 so you want to trade down what 3 spots?
Buffalo, Jacksonville, Denver one of them takes McClain and it isn’t called a reach at all by draft experts. So you wouldn’t reach 3 spots for him? Oh and now that i think about it 8 is oakland and they need an ILB also so McClain could be the pick and we wouldn’t trade with rivals so we would have to pick McClain at 7.
Dan Williams will go at pick 9, 11, or 12 same situation. Even with a trade down we can only move down 2-3 spots and still get our NT or ILB.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
ILB go in the top 5 less often than safeties do
I can see reaching for Dan Williams because of the lack of NT depth and “positional value”. McClain no. There’s quite of bit of LB depth in this draft as well.
There are 4 ILB prospects for the position we need.
Yes there are a lot of ILB prospects but there are two positions at ILB. One we don’t need (The one Demorrio and DJ play) We need to upgrade Mays, period. The four players capabale of coming in and playing that position are: McClain, Spikes, Micah Johnson, and Jamar Chanay. After that there aren’t run stuffing Linebackers that are the size Pioli likes. He wants his ILB 240+ and smart as hell. He also likes his linebackers to run around 4.7 40s which eliminates Spikes.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
by ChiefsfanJon on Mar 22, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if I believe
We need to get a safety or fill the many needs we have, I just want TALENT! This team has some talent but we need to get more playmakers and people who will set the tone of the game.
The fact is a safety is in the best position to give that impact. In a pass happy league, having someone who is great in pass protection and someone is capable of blitzing and hitting the QB, it changes the game! So i’m all for talent and playmakers, not another tackle!
Rank of skill of playing QB for the Chiefs
Cassel > Brodie's wife > Brodie
I disagree and here's why
you stop the run on the line … last year the Little Sisters of the Poor could have run past our line … last year we had RBs from other teams that nobody had EVER heard of running for record yardsage against us (remember that guy from Cleveland? me either, but he looked like Jim Brown that day)
that’s why, IMNSHO, NT is a bigger need than S … you build from the lines outward … our DLine isn’t done yet … the game is won or lost on the line … we can have fast “sexy” guys all over the secondary and still lose week after week
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
I expect Pioli do make a smart football move with the pick and I have no clue what that is
I agree with everyone who is cursing us getting the 5th pick. It’s just a tough spot. The rookie pay scale is problematic. How would Berry’s salary compare if taken at 5? Would he be one of if not THE highest paid safeties before he plays a snap? I’ve never agreed with that happening. Players should prove themselves before unseating veterans as the highest paid at their positions. Otherwise how much will tickets cost soon? That money has to come from somewhere. I know we have alot under the cap, but that is another conversation all together…
by liquorstoreclerk on Mar 22, 2010 9:57 AM CDT reply actions
Antre Rolle just became the highest paid saftey in the NFL, Berry would match or exceed that if drafted at 5
Rolle’s Deal: 5 yrs, $37 million, $15M guaranteed
Last 3 #5 pick deals:
2009: Mark Sanchez, 5 years, $60 million ($28M guaranteed)
2008: Glenn Dorsey, 5 years, $51 million ($23M guaranteed)
2007: Levi Brown, 6 years, $62 million ($22-$23M guranteed)
reward out weighs risk
Safety is a need, LT is a question. We can’t and shouldn’t waste a fst rd pick on position that we aren’t even sure is a need. We need a safety terribly, but we might not even need a new LT. Especially considering the best lt might not be there and how well albert played the latter h part of the season, shutting down doom and harrison. I still believe in albert and believe that at present our ol has been sufficiently addressed in FA and that our picks would best be used elsewhere.
by irishking44 on Mar 22, 2010 10:11 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
NT is a need, more so than S position ... by a long shot
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Bunch of tackle haters here -
I don’t blame them – our recent example, Branden Albert, isn’t a good example of what a 1st round left tackle should do for us. Remember though, he was picked 15th as a project left tackle that played guard in the NFL. He had a steeper learning curve but I think their satisfied with keeping him there for the time being.
YES!
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
by BigRedChief on Mar 22, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree, IF he really is true to his reputation
But if due diligence shows that he’s not really a bad apple, I’d rather take him than reach badly for a NT or OT. He really looks phenomenal in his highlights.
Predictions:
This year will be better
Starter from day one and would be a VERY dangerous threat..... may be able to unload Bowe but together? Championship.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
by BigRedChief on Mar 22, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know about Bowe + Bryant = Championship
But between them & JC it would be a very tough offense to go against. The D would still be the problem though.
Predictions:
This year will be better
THIS ARTICLE IS THE FIRST BIT OF EVIDENCE THAT MAKES ME REALLY THINK
That we are not drafting Eric Berry. That quote says a lot (to me). Those guys are very good friends, and i’m sure Demitrioff wouldn’t miss quote Pioli. Hopefully Pioli is racking his mind, similar to how Dimitrioff is about a safety in the top 10. More than likely though, the Chiefs wont draft Eric Berry. Now im racking my brain as to who will we pick…
Dez Bryant?
Dan Williams?
Rolando McClain?
Sean Weatherspoon?
I have this feeling that we are gonna reach for McClain, which I think is a bad choice…
by Larryemcdaniel on Mar 22, 2010 10:26 AM CDT reply actions
i dont think pioli is going safety no way
We r going o line or line backer we need a game changer and a solid tackler we need a signal caller in the worst way we have no voice on defense a man that is a leader and a warrior we don’t have one. I would either go oline or line backer. I think the chiefs hardest decision will have to b pick what’s killing u the most do we pick up a linebacker to help us stop the run or do we pick a olineman to protect our qb and give our star running back some help? That’s the question. Berry to me is the sexy pick. And pioli does not like sexy picks
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Mar 22, 2010 10:37 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think it would be a big mistake to select
McClain or Spoon 5th. Thats ridiculous…
by Larryemcdaniel on Mar 22, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Id rather us just say F it
and draft Haden or Dez if were not going Berry. In my opinion, no other player is worth the 5th pick. McClain, Spoon, Williams, Bulaga, Graham are BIG TIME reaches. Chiefs need to select a guy who can come in and make a big impact.
by Larryemcdaniel on Mar 22, 2010 10:46 AM CDT reply actions
I will never underestimate how "stupid" the Lions can be.
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS 2010 DRAFT: (top 6 picks)
1.05) Eric Berry (S – Tennessee)
2.36) Jerry Hughes (DE/OLB – Texas Christian)
2.51) Terrence Codi or Cam Thomas (NT – Alabama / NC)
3.68) Jon Asamoah (OL – Illinois)
4.99) Jordan shipley (WR/PR – Texas)
5.133) Mitch Petrus (OL – Arkansas)
by DivineGrace on Mar 22, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
you think they'd be even more stupid and pass on Suh?
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
If Detroit passes on SUH then they need to start checking all the closets because Matt Millen is hiding somewhere.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
by BigRedChief on Mar 22, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
yup
if they did, and EITHER Suh or McCoy was there for us and Pioli passed … omg I’d have to rip him a new one
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
If Detroit goes with Okung
I have to think one of those two will be available. Tampa will surely take one of them at #3, but I can’t see Washington going for a DT considering that they already have one of the best Ds in the league.
I wouldn’t be unhappy with the selection, it would give the D-Line a lot of flexibility.
Predictions:
This year will be better
this whole "Are we paying Berry too much by taking him that early" conversation...
reminds us that we NEED a rookie salary cap…ASAP.
Clausen...
Do we take Clausen in the 5th spot, give him appropriate money (this spot will have to dish out QB type money, not Safety type money, like we want to do), groom him for 2 years, then trade either Cassel, or Clausen for 2 or 3 picks?
Just a thought…
With the 5th pick in the 2010 draft the Kansas City Chiefs select Eric Berry of Tennessee!
I think there is ZERO chance of that
But others would disagree.
Predictions:
This year will be better
Not me. I wouldn't like Claussen even IF we needed a QB.
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
by BigRedChief on Mar 22, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I tend to agree with you guys
This would be very high risk. But, if we want to get bang for our book, it may be an appropriate action. Most likely, right after we drafted him we would get several phone calls
With the 5th pick in the 2010 draft the Kansas City Chiefs select Eric Berry of Tennessee!
It's not size, It's explosiveness
Remember saleamua was only 6-2 294 or something like that and he was pretty damn good. I know people say NT’s job is to take up blockers but why should they double team you if you’re just a fat meatbag in the middle like a lot of them? The good one’s get doubleteamed because they are disruptive and the OL is required to Double team them or risk a TFL or sack and SUH is the most disruptive i’ve seen a DT in a long time.
Different era
And a different defensive alignement.
Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.
by burntorangehorn on Mar 22, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Look at Bob Sanders in Peter King's statements
He has missed 48 games. That’s 3 seasons worth. So when you look at the other two that’s 30 games between 15 years compared to Bob’s 48 in 6 years. So that’s 240 games played (not including playoffs) and they’ve missed 30, roughly 12.5%. I’ll take my chances with Berry knowing how much of an impact Reed and Polamalu can make when he’s projected to be that type of impact player. Sign me up!
Chiefs draft wishlist:
Berry, then a combo of BPA and NEED
Time to take back the AFC West
Go Chiefs
by King of the Cassel on Mar 22, 2010 12:23 PM CDT reply actions
Gerald McCoy will fall to us
McCoy will fall to us at #5 because of needs of the 4 picks ahead of us.
St. Louis and Washington will take a QB and if Washington does not take a QB they will most certainly take a Left Tackle. It would not suprise me if Washington passes on Clausen and looks to trade down to any team needing a QB.
Tampa Bay will take Suh
Detroit has to protect Stafford and they know it. They will take Okung at #2
McCoy is pretty much
a 4-3 tackle. Don’t see him projected very well as a 3-4 NT, only as an end and well, we already have 2 so no need.
Chiefs draft wishlist:
Berry, then a combo of BPA and NEED
Time to take back the AFC West
Go Chiefs
by King of the Cassel on Mar 22, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I have a dumb question.
Based on this statement
But the odds of him being great for a long time — as opposed to the physical longevity of a tackle or defensive lineman or quarterback not subject to as many high-speed collisions — are pretty long, based on history.
Why do we care about the longevity of the player when discussing the rookie contract of the player? If we are talking about a longevity of greater than 5 years, then what difference does it make? Past that point will be a second contract, so all you really care about is whether or not the player you draft will have a strong impact w/in those first 5 years.
If Berry is amongst the top 5 at the position, on average, over the course of his rookie contract, then hasn’t he earned his money?
by etp_stl on Mar 22, 2010 12:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Hard but true and rec
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 22, 2010 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess that sounded harder than I meant it.
I was talking just from the business side. I just find it interesting that King is discussing draft choices based on money versus longevity when there is no guarantee that the player will even want to resign after his rookie contract/RFA period. A team is selecting and paying a rookie based on what he’ll do through the length of his rookie contract, so why would longevity of the player really come into play?
Thanks for the rec, btw. I think that’s my first one. I feel quite warm and glowy.
This article doesn't change my opinion either way
I still hope we draft Berry.
I still have no idea if we will draft Berry and I’m no more sure or doubtful after reading this.
For all we know Pioli said “You know how I feel about safeties that early” with a grin and a “wink wink”. I mean think about it. Dmitroff comes from the secretive Patriots way too. If he and Pioli are good friends that come from that same background do you think its more likely that he would share insight about what his friend was going to do with the #5 pick with the mainstream media, or help pass on misinformation?
Official Member of the "Draft Eric Berry" Fanclub
KC could trade their no 1 to the Texans for Pollard
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
-999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Official Member of the "Draft Eric Berry" Fanclub
All I can say is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJKdpsZi_10
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
or more recently -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYgl5NnpdAs
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
Yawn, not this garbage again. How tiring.
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
You may not have seen ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CZdXZLyR9E&feature=related
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
Wow, that was 1:16 of my life I'll never get back
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
Don't Play Poker with Pioli...................
He will never give up his poker face. and he will surprise you…..even if he tells you something different. EB #5 It’s the weakest position on our defense.
PLUS…….. He’s good enough to play corner
PLUS……. He’s good enough to be a returner
PLUS…… “Pick 6” I think that’s his middle name
Eric “Pick 6” Berry
Go Chiefs…………..
Hmmm...
PLUS…….. He’s good enough to play corner
PLUS……. He’s good enough to be a returner
PLUS…… "Pick 6" I think that’s his middle name
Eric "Pick 6" Berry
Yeah, I’ll believe it when I see it.
College stats: 2009: Eric Berry- 2 INT’s, 0 TD’s ………3 Years combined as a college player: 3 TD’s.
If ‘Pick 6’ is Berry’s middle name then someone should slap his mother.
College Stats: 2009 Earl Thomas- 8 INT’s 2 TD’s
Berry had 14 INT’s in 3 full seasons (AVG 4.67 per season)
Thomas had 10 INT in 2 seasons (AVG 5.00 per season)
I’m NOT advocating picking Thomas, don’t get me wrong. I’m just trying to shed light on the REALITY of the players instead of the HYPE from the fans.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
i dont see why pioli would give information away like that
"WIth the 5th pick in the 2010 NFL draft the Kansas City Chiefs select... Eric Berry Safety Tennesee... "
He could be Aaron Curry all over again....
Seatle fans think hes a disaster
Some Berry good highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r8q8aYIyFc&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIfRBFALl2E&feature=related
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
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