Building Through The Trenches?

by kc_radrh8r on Mar 21, 2010 11:35 PM CDT

As we all impatiently wait for the end of April for the NFL Draft to arrive, there have been several debates lately over which positions are worthy of a 5th overall selection. My curiosity has led me to do some more of my usual number crunching. Tonight, my research involved looking at the Chiefs and the six playoff teams from the AFC in 2009 and seeing where their offensive linemen were selected in the draft. Some players were drafted by teams other than who they played for last season but I went with their original draft position. For example, Damien Woody is a Jet but was drafted by the Patriots in round one. I assigned a point value (based on the round) for where each player was picked and calculated each playoff team’s average for where their player was picked and the average draft value for each offensive line position. The lower the number means the earlier the players were drafted. The following details the numerical value assigned for draft rounds…

Top 10 overall picks = .5 points
Round 1 draft picks = 1 point
Round 2 draft picks = 2 points
Round 3 draft picks = 3 points
Round 4 draft picks = 4 points
Round 5 draft picks = 5 points
Round 6 draft picks = 6 points
Round 7 draft picks = 7 points
Undrafted players = 8 points

The numbers for all five starters for each team are added up and divided by five to create the average given. So for example, with the Chiefs having a 5.0 average, that would mean their offensive linemen average out to be early fifth round draft picks.

Chiefs = 5.0
Albert (1), Waters (8), Niswanger (8), Goff (3), O’Callaghan (5)

Colts = 5.6
Charlie Johnson (6), Ryan Lilja (8), Jeff Saturday (8), Mike Pollak (2), Ryan Diem (4)

Chargers = 4.4
Marcus McNeil (2), Kris Dielman (8), Nick Hardwick (3), Louis Vasquez (3), Jeromey Clary (6)

Patriots = 3.8
Matt Light (2), Logan Mankins (1), Dan Koppen (5), Stephen Neal (8), Nick Kaczur (3)

Bengals = 3.8
Andrew Whitworth (2), Evan Mathis (3), Kyle Cook (8), Bobbie Williams (2), Anthony Collins (4)

Jets = 2.3
D’Brickashaw Ferguson (.5), Alan Faneca (1), Nick Mangold (1), Brandon Moore (8), Damien Woody (1)

Ravens = 3.0
Jared Gaither (5), Ben Grubbs (1), Matt Birk (6), Chris Chester (2), Michael Oher (1)
Marshall Yanda (3), Oniel Cousins (3)

Results by position:

2.9 = Left Tackle
3.6 = Left Guard
5.1 = Center
4.1 = Right Guard
3.1 = Right Tackle

*The Baltimore Ravens have two key backups on the offensive line who received significant playing time and have started games. If Yanda and Cousins are added to the equation and divided by seven instead of five, the result is still the same.

*The New York Jets, who have the lowest number for average draft pick, led the NFL in rushing yards in 2009.

*The Baltimore Ravens, who have the second lowest number for average draft pick, led the NFL in rushing touchdowns in 2009.

*Gaither was selected in the 5th round of the 2007 Supplemental Draft, resulting in Baltimore to lose their 5th round pick in the 2008 NFL Draft.

*New England has Sebastian Vollmer (2) from the 2009 draft and Cincinnati has Andre Smith (.5) from the 2009 draft who were not calculated into the equation but could effect the data if done again next year.

*Mathis was drafted by the Panthers, Bobbie Williams was drafted by the Eagles, Faneca was drafted by the Steelers, Woody was drafted by the Patriots, Birk was drafted by the Vikings.

*As a side note, five of the six playoff teams also have 1st round quarterbacks.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Comments

Nice post and rec

It doesn’t take top picks to build a line. The Jets did turn that line into something. Maybe the Chiefs will too

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 21, 2010 11:48 PM CDT reply actions

Thanks

And no, we probably dont need to spend the next four years drafting o-linemen in round one, but we still need to get them a bit higher than we do. There are a lot of good linemen on the list (and in the rest of the NFL too) who were 2nd and 3rd round picks.

The studs from the 2010 draft class will be: DT Ndamukong Suh, S Eric Berry, RB C.J. Spiller, RB Jahvid Best, WR Arrelious Benn, WR Golden Tate, WR Mardy Gilyard, OT Charles Brown, CB Kyle Wilson and S Chad Jones

by kc_radrh8r on Mar 22, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions

There really are some great linemen available in the draft, which means that this

year we’ll be able to take them later and still get good value.

by BetterRedThanDead on Mar 22, 2010 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions

The Jets spent a ton on that line, though

Ferguson was a “lottery” pick, Mangold was the 33rd pick (IIRC) a few years ago, Faneca was fairly pricy, and Woody…well, I don’t remember how much he cost them. Anyway, I guess I’m just saying that they didn’t really cobble the line together out of journeymen.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 22, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions

yeah like our great gm does

he finds the diamonds in the ruff

by anewstart on Mar 21, 2010 11:49 PM CDT reply actions

I'm sure hoping so

I didnt realize during the playoffs last year that five of the six QB’s were first round picks. Let’s hope that Cassel really can be Brady 2.0

by kc_radrh8r on Mar 21, 2010 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions

brady 2.0?

matt cassel needs to be himself ,just like carson palmer and others have told him.the players and coaches who know cassel all speak highly of him and he has already proven himself already that he is a good young nfl qb. why do some people get stuck on where a player was picked at and base that on there criteria………..

by chiefs72 on Mar 22, 2010 6:29 AM CDT reply actions

Not so sure people get stuck on where a player

was picked at and base that on their criteria, Brady is just the best case for a late rounder.

by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 22, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions

That's exactly what I was meaning

Brady was a late-round gem and I’m just hoping Cassel is the same. I’m not saying I hope he models his game after Brady in any way. I just hope he can be as successful while also being a late round pick.

by kc_radrh8r on Mar 22, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions

I'd just like to see 2 or 3 guys taken on the line this year

if Charles Brown falls to 2a LT

Petrus, Olsen, or Walton in the fourth or fifth RG/C

Fox in the third if he falls that far or Black in the fifth RT

by mcclanahanman on Mar 22, 2010 10:10 AM CDT reply actions

I like those scenarios

and I also like Sam Young for RT and Eric Young for C, and not just because of the Notre Dame connection to Charlie Weis. I really just like those players and think they’d be great to have on the line.

by kc_radrh8r on Mar 22, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions

I think you meant Eric Olsen at C.

I like Petrus better than Olsen and Walton for one reason, Wisniewski will be coming out next year and if we’re going to take a C I’d rather it be him, and Petrus is already in a zone blocking scheme, I could see him being our day 1 starter at RG and he’s stout as a bull.

Out of the RT’s Fox is my favorite, I’ve seen him listed as a round 2 to 4 talent because of his injury, but if he hadn’t been injured he would have been a first round prospect.

Black looks like a road grater, BUT he keeps getting heavier and heavier, Haley would slim him down, and he might look like a real tackle, even a left tackle. If he could get down to 310 before the season started I’m sure he’d be a hoss. A guy who had first round aspirations 2 years ago, but he’s steadily falling because he’s carrying too much weight on his frame.

Sam Young at 6-8 and 316 lbs, slow feet for a RT, with his size I’m thinking LT but with slow feet I highly doubt it. He’d be a project, if he could ever get his footwork down he’d definately be someone to watch out for, if he doesn’t work out at tackle guard isn’t really an option as big as he is. He’s a mammoth for sure and I like his size but he has huge potential to be a bust. I like the thought of Sam Young but the reality makes me kind of wary.

I think Smith was signed as a stop gap until next season when there’s a deeper NT crop coming out. 5 or 6 guys with the right frame, instead of being limited to one true nose tackle. I see a young guy in the late rounds or an udfa at NT.

I think our free agency is showing more of what’s planned for next season than for the draft this season. Jones at RB, Lilja, Weigmann OL, and Smith at NT…..Could we be looking at taking Brown if he falls and grooming him for a year, but mainly focusing on RT and RG in the draft? Then looking at C next season? Then thinking we’re set there and just drafting later round projects to groom here and there.

by mcclanahanman on Mar 22, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

My bad

I did mean Eric Olsen. Good, intelligent post, but now I have to ask, “If KC did take an OT in round one, whether it be at 5 or in a trade to move down, how would you feel about that?” I wouldnt be particularly thrilled, but I’m growing more and more convinced that they’ll do it.

It’s all hypothetical and there have been numerous, on-going debates for and against Eric Berry, but I dont see any “must have” prospect at the top of the draft this year other than Suh, and even he may or may not fit into our specific plans.

by kc_radrh8r on Mar 22, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions

actually

I think we’re going to draft Gerald McCoy in round 1depending on Cleveland, unless we do trade up for Suh specifically, if McCoy had come out last season he’d be a chief and Jackson would be somewhere else.

I think St. Louis is going with Bradford, Det. with Suh or McCoy, and Cleveland is going to slip into the #3 position for Clausen, with Buffalo, Seattle, and Washington all sniffing around the QB’s in the draft, I think Cleveland panics and makes a move to get their quarterback. If all that happens Washington is going to go Okung, and Suh or McCoy slips.

If we trade back, I don’t think we can trade back far enough for Charles Brown to be a value pick, and for our blocking scheme I think he’s the best choice for us besides Okung.

If Suh and McCoy are both off of the board I do think the pick is Berry, but I’m about to perform a Sacrilege on the site, I think he’ll be our corner opposite of Flowers.

I’m not high on most of the tackles in the first round of the draft for zone blocking, Bulaga is short armed for a left tackle. Davis’ work ethic, has come into question, looks like another Andre Smith. I don’t think Okung is as good of a LT as Clady and I think he’ll go to the redskins. I think Campbell has the most upside but how will he do in a zone scheme? Trent Williams, I don’t know, I can’t put my finger on it, but besides Davis he seems like the OT with the most bust potential to me. I could be way off, and I probably am there.

I think Charles Brown is the Sam Baker of this draft, if he slips to the second, I’d snag him up in a heartbeat. Maybe even trade up to Minnesota’s position if he fell that far.

I guess out of all of that I have to say I’d be against it. I can see trading back into round 1 for Brown, but unless we come away with McCoy, Suh or Berry, I won’t be happy with our first pick.

I’d like to see Fox and Troup in round 3, Petrus in round 4, and the rest of the draft defense, unless Tate or Brown were available at 2a. If we can’t secure a second 3rd I’d like to see Troup in round 3 and Ciron Black in round 5.

I don’t know, by week 12 I’d love to see an O-Line that looks like this
Brown, Albert, Weigmann, Petrus, Fox and take Wisniewski next season to complete the line.

The defensive line I’d like to see is as far out there as hitting the lottery, so I won’t even go into it.

by mcclanahanman on Mar 22, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Well, I will wait and see

I have given up hope trying to figure what the Chiefs Will do.
Your plan sounds good, Just hope for 8 wins and 2nd place next year 2010.
With the O-line set and a NT (this year or next) I expect playoffs in 2011.
No different than what I expect anyway :)

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 22, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions

that be nice to get charles brown in the second..

i dont see it happening but id try movin him to RT and compete with o call

"WIth the 5th pick in the 2010 NFL draft the Kansas City Chiefs select... Eric Berry Safety Tennesee... "

by BEEf_CHIEF on Mar 22, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions

Power Running

I tend to believe when you have a power running attack, you have to draft lineman who are big and strong at the point of attack. For example the jets, ravens, maybe even the bengals… These kind of lineman are well-known and tend to have to be drafted high

But what I’ve noticed is that when you run a zone blocking scheme, you dont have to have the most talented lineman. For example Denver.

Id like to see the same numbers ran for the Chiefs, when we were a power team;
Roaf, Waters, Wiegmann, Shields, Tait, or even further back
Shields, Grunhard, Szott, Alt.

My argument is a power team has to draft lineman high.
Zone blocking scheme, not so much

Haley told the offense to run it again. When someone said the defense already knows the play he responded, "So what, make it work."

by Jay Cotton on Mar 22, 2010 12:08 PM CDT reply actions

hmmm

Roaf was a .5 if i’m thinking right
Tait a 1
Shields a 3
and Waters an 8
I don’t know where Weigmann was drafted

Alt was a 1, Grunhard was a 2 and I think Szott was a 4 or a 5, it’s been too long….

by mcclanahanman on Mar 22, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions

That's hard to gauge

Weigmann was an UDFA for the Bears Dave Szott was drafted in the 7th round, but there were 12 rounds back then. I’m guessing that’d be something like a 4-5 now.

Roaf (.5), Waters (8), Weigmann (8), Shields (3), Tait (1) = 4.1

by kc_radrh8r on Mar 22, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions