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Because of money, the Chiefs will not take Eric Berry 5th overall


Taking Eric Berry 5th in the draft would automatically make him the highest paid safety in the NFL, with a salary 50% higher than the franchise designation for safeties (see details of this after the jump).  If you look at the 4th, 5th, and 6th picks in last year's draft, you see that the 5th pick will earn approximately $8-10 million per year.  Yet, the highest paid safeties in the league make around $7.5 million (see details after the jump). 

Given that Pioli pays close attention to value, he is highly unlikely to spend a disproportionate amount of cap on an over-paid safety.  This leads me to believe the Chiefs will select an offensive left tackle, probably Bryan Bulaga.  Only an outside linebacker or defensive end (i.e., a passrusher) warrants a different selection, but I can't imagine a player at either of those positions warranting the choice.

Star-divide

2009 4th pick - OLB Aaron Curry, 6-yr, $60 million, $34 million guaranteed ($10 million average)

2009 5th pick - QB Mark Sanchez, 5-yr $60 million, $28 million guaranteed ($12 million average)

2009 6th pick - LOT Andre Smith, 6-yr $42 million, $29.5 million guaranteed ($7 million average)

 

Ed Reed's latest contract, 6-yr, $44.4 million ($7.4 million average)

Troy Polamalu's latest contract, 4-yr, $30.2 million ($7.6 million average)

Antrell Role's latest contract, 5-yr, $37 million ($7.4 million average)

 

Franchise tag values by position 

Position

Value*

Quarterback

$16.405 million

Defensive end

$12.398 million

Offensive line+

$10.731 million

Linebacker

$9.680 million

Cornerback

$9.566 million

Receiver

$9.521 million

Running back

$8.156 million

Defensive tackle

$7.003 million

Safety

$6.455 million

Tight end

$5.908 million

Kicker

$2.814 million

* Average of top five highest-paid players.
+ Top five are all left tackles.

Poll
Do you agree that money will play a factor in the Chiefs' selection at no. 5?
Yes
147 votes
No
92 votes

239 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 91 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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There needs to be a rookie cap.

No reason unproven players should be making more than All Pros.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 2:48 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

+1000

*My opinions are subject to change.

by CMatthews on Mar 20, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

absolutely

The question remains, if they pick Berry, does Pioli just tell him he ain’t being paid more than Troy until he proves he is the next Troy?

Blame my wife!
Waiting until August 2010

by sir eccles on Mar 20, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

In that case

Berry can just hold out and re-enter the draft next year and leave us s.o.l.

The studs from the 2010 draft class will be: DT Ndamukong Suh, S Eric Berry, RB C.J. Spiller, RB Jahvid Best, WR Arrelious Benn, WR Golden Tate, WR Mardy Gilyard, OT Charles Brown, CB Kyle Wilson and S Chad Jones

by kc_radrh8r on Mar 20, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

If Berry is selected at 5 he will be the highest paid safety in the league. Pioli knows thats just the nature of the beast when selecting that high in the draft. He would probably get slightly less than Mark Sanchez.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still think if he is there

Pioli will pick him, we need S help badly and he will come in and be worth the money in the end. I agree with CLC above though, there needs to be a rookie cap in place

Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.

by jrcnc on Mar 20, 2010 2:51 PM CDT reply actions  

Great research

But under that theory I would take Haden. Would not be an overpaid corner and is the concensus #1 player at his position. I don’t think it’ll be LT.

Bottom line is whoever is picked up at that position is going to be overpaid. These contracts are out of control for rookies.

1. Are they an upgrade over what we already have?
2. Do they have high football IQ?
3. Can they make a difference from Day 1?
4. Do they have a history of leadership?
5. Sign him up.

by BJ Kissel on Mar 20, 2010 2:52 PM CDT reply actions  

Exactly

Paying any rookie more than the best in the game at any position just doesn’t make sence. The main problem is in the top 10. After that the contracts become somewhat reasonable. The key is just to not draft in the top 10, either by trading down or even better…winning.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd take Haden and Nate Allen, C jones, or Chancellor over

Berry and any other corner available in the 2nd or later – Kyle Wilson being the exception.

If we take Berry and Wilson falls to 2a – Our secondary is set for years!

1. Are they an upgrade over what we already have?
2. Do they have high football IQ?
3. Can they make a difference from Day 1?
4. Do they have a history of leadership?
5. Sign him up.

by BJ Kissel on Mar 20, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure, lets establish a rookie cap

Then watch teams under .500 at midseason intentionally tank the rest of the season so they can sign a top 10 pick on the cheap.

Someone else in this thread said something about these contracts being punishment for losing enough to pick that high and it certainly is. If they didn’t have the negative of overpaying an albatross like JaMarcus Russell, what would they have to lose?

by alakan81 on Mar 20, 2010 5:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Cap != cheap

Anyway, the purpose of the draft isn’t punishment for sucking, it’s supposed to ensure that bad teams get first shot at the “best” players that are coming out of college.

This space for rent.

by Druful on Mar 20, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

having to overpay

is kinda like punishment for having to pick at the 5 spot. If some of our other drafts had produced we wouldnt be picking here now. Regardless we have to take BPA and if Berry is sitting there Clark needs to open up the checkbook, pay him, and watch him dominate in the Secondary for years to come.

Are we the team to beat in 2010? I sure think so! Go Chiefs.

by jrcnc on Mar 20, 2010 3:15 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

money will not be an issue with whoever is taken, or whenever any player is taken

IMNSHO

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 20, 2010 3:21 PM CDT reply actions  

upamtn,

I must say I have a rather unusual and odd attraction to your lips. Every time I see them i get goosebumps and sensations in places, an oh nevermind… you dont want to know

Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!

by nateforchiefs on Mar 20, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

ohhhhhh nathan!

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 20, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought it was just me. But if you want to see something unusually attractive...

NJ Chiefs legs with Upamtns lips….and Bucko’s dog. HOT!! Espcecially the dog.

by krayfish on Mar 20, 2010 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

you SICK bastard!

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 21, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wow Kray

You actually made me think of you as more off the wall than before. You may have ruined my dog for me too!

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Mar 21, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here is a positive way at looking at the rookie contracts

If they weren’t so high we would have less-reason (a little) to laugh at the Raiders. Russel, McFadden, DHB – Lots o’ money tied into players not exactly living up to expectations. But hey – Russel has lost weight – How long did it take this multi-million dollar #1 pick in the NFL that being in shape should be a priority? So there is a positive spin…..I guess

1. Are they an upgrade over what we already have?
2. Do they have high football IQ?
3. Can they make a difference from Day 1?
4. Do they have a history of leadership?
5. Sign him up.

by BJ Kissel on Mar 20, 2010 3:24 PM CDT reply actions  

The crappy thing is that McFadden has so much damn talent

If he had gone to the right team, like maybe Tennessee, I think he would’ve been one of the top backs in the league by now. But going to Oakland is the kiss of death.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 20, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

right pick wrong team - mcfadden should be better

1. Are they an upgrade over what we already have?
2. Do they have high football IQ?
3. Can they make a difference from Day 1?
4. Do they have a history of leadership?
5. Sign him up.

by BJ Kissel on Mar 20, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Things like that always make me wonder

what would have happened had the Colts selected Ryan Leaf instead of Peyton Manning? With that coaching staff, would Leaf have developed into a great QB while Peyton struggled in the mess San Diego was in at that time?

The studs from the 2010 draft class will be: DT Ndamukong Suh, S Eric Berry, RB C.J. Spiller, RB Jahvid Best, WR Arrelious Benn, WR Golden Tate, WR Mardy Gilyard, OT Charles Brown, CB Kyle Wilson and S Chad Jones

by kc_radrh8r on Mar 20, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

well maybe

But as far as I can tell Peyton is a high quality individual whereas Leaf is an arrogant dickhead. Much of his problem is his own doing.

New body. Same soul.

by kabrink on Mar 20, 2010 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

arrogant dickhead convict?

link

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I shouldn't be harsh

Some convicts were never drafted in the 1st round of the NFL draft.

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

wow

New body. Same soul.

by kabrink on Mar 20, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's a lot of assumption in the OP

And I don’t think it makes sense. Does Pioli pay attention to position? Yes. But if one thinks that relative contract-to-position value is that big a factor, then why would it only be a factor in the top five? Besides, it would’ve been inconceivable that New England would have drafted a tight end in the first round at all, yet it happened twice. And they’ve spent first-round picks on a safety, guard, ILB, and a few other positions despite having bigger needs at other positions. Why? Because the Pats’ front office at the time felt that the guys they drafted were the most bang for their pick.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 20, 2010 3:30 PM CDT reply actions  

its a consideration, for sure

But, defensive tackles shouldn’t make that much by your logic…

And KC has TWO that are in that category, and TWO more are going top 5 this year

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense

by stagdsp on Mar 20, 2010 3:38 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

$$$$$

It’s not a question of position played, but of position drafted.

by Special K on Mar 20, 2010 3:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Usually

Although sometimes the overall value of the contract ends up giving a little more to, say, a QB, because of options or similar devices toward the late end of the deal.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 20, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good Research, but.......

Tyson Jackson will be a good player but he DOESN’T deserve the moeny he is getting. This is just the case with everyone in the top ten, your pick has to be a value to the team, Eric Berry is a value to the chiefs and the best player on the board when K.C. picks.
Money will have nothing to do with it. They are not going to take a lesser player just because of money, example being tyson jackson.

by Chiefs3188 on Mar 20, 2010 4:04 PM CDT reply actions  

So doesn't Tyson Jackson play DE?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes and no

He’s a DT, as is dorsey

DE usually refers to the 4-3 pass rusher variety, IMO

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense

by stagdsp on Mar 20, 2010 7:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

yeah I agree

fine line though
So we should draft a Rush backer and pay him top 5 money when we have Hali that should get an extension on his contract?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

See, this is something that confuses me

We run a 3-4, not a 5-2, so why is it that we would draft a guy with a similar skillset to Hali, such as Graham, Kindle, or Hughes?

Now, I’m not saying those guys can’t be great OLBs, but I would think a better answer would be someone a little more well-rounded to play on the strongside and give some options as far as we can do with coverages.

Who is this magical person that’s big enough to play the run, agile enough to cover, and can at least rush the passer pretty well? I have no idea.

by alakan81 on Mar 20, 2010 8:12 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

A tweener

Tweeners are like Hali 4-3 DE’s that are not big enough to play a 3-4 DE.
Jackson is 300 lbs and Dorsey is 300 lbs. Most of the 4-3 DE’s are 270 or so.
A 3-4 OLB is maybe 255 to 270 cause he has to fight OT’s, thus tweeners.
The 3-4 could also to some degree be called the 5-2 defense, was when I grew up in the 70’s. 5 defensive lineman basically with 2 LB’s in the 2 position (over Guards) So the Inside Linebackers are about all there is in the Shallows. as Texas Chiefs calls it.

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

To add

The strong OLB has to be stout to stuff the run obviously cause the offense runs to the strong side with the TE blocking more. The Strong OLB has to be smart to recognize the pass off of the fake run so mobile, so agile with some drop skill to defend the RB and TE dump passes. Plus quick enough to pressure the QB who is trying to elude the WOLB (Jack) while make a play with his feet. Vrabel is perfect for all these except he is wearing down with the Years. Like we all do

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Graham might be the closest fit

Hughes is more of a pure pass rusher, but he’s also athletic enough to drop into coverage

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense

by stagdsp on Mar 20, 2010 8:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

He would be a nice sub for vrabel maybe

or too spell Hali

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hughes to the reply

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Drafting a rush LB isnt actually a bad idea, assuming you are throwing the OT play out the window. According to the money a passrusher is the most important position second only to QB.
What the average salaries at each position dont tell you is the bust rate; and Im guessing OT has one of the lowest first round bust rates you’ll find.

The point is. If you are going to roll the dice at the very top of the draft. (Which is unavoidable if you pick their) You really have two choices imo. You can pick an impact position like QB or edge rusher and hope you really hit.
Or you can pick a safer impact position like CB or OT, maybe increase your odds of hitting.

But drafting a OG, TE, or a S would be a fail all the way around because now you’re rolling the dice on a non impact position. Which means you are risking more for the possible smaller return. Kind of like playing blackjack but for like 1/60 odds. Why would anyone do that? I guess a franchise with all the pieces could very well deviate from this, but thats the exception not the rule.

by Foilhat on Mar 20, 2010 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree and excellent arguement

My idea would be the tweener rush backer not the Jack.
Upgrading the Vrabel spot of strongside rusher and and stout run stuffer.
Not any of the top 5 picks as projected is that guy so we get Pioli’s best shot at the pick of the litter.

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

err towards the run stuffer and viola no bust I can see :)

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like everything in football

Different people call it different things.

I’d call Dorsey a DT, since he’s the one that will generally squeeze inside so Hali can line up outside the tackle and Jackson a strongside DE.

by alakan81 on Mar 20, 2010 7:58 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

What would you call it if Dorsey due to the NT playing 0-tech

could line up at 5-tech. What kind of pressure could Hali apply then?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, technically

Dorsey is a DE/DT, because yes he lines up anywhere from 5 to 3.

If Dorsey is in a 5, over the tackle, Hali could either line up with his hand down or in a two point at a 7 or a 9.

With Hali in a 7, he could either just rush like an end, or stunt inside while Dorsey works the tackle out and the nose gets the guard and center. Or he could play the tackle wide to try and give Dorsey a chance to either beat the left guard or get a free path to the backfield.

Out at a 9, Hali is pretty either gonna rush wide or contain.

by alakan81 on Mar 20, 2010 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

and what would be the sack ratio 1 - 100 with Hali in the 7 or 9 tech?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

That I couldn't tell you

I worked weekends on last season, so I didn’t see many games, but I do know that speed and quickness a la Dwight Freeney aren’t Hali’s game, he’s a good athlete not a great one, he’s just out there humpin’ it all day.

If I recall though, he seems to beat guys(Clady) on their outside shoulder most of the time and then muscle around with his left arm to keep from going too wide, so I would say 7 would be better just so he doesn’t as much ground to cover.

Now that I’ve changed shifts, I will be able to watch every week to see if Crennel and Co. agree with me.

by alakan81 on Mar 20, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great for you :)

Hali was held all the time. But as a newbie on the rush side got few calls. Now maybe I am a Homer but a arm bar at the neck should be a hold :) So I can see Hali was maybe a nanosecond slow and a CB, OLB, NT , or DE that steps up just a little (anyone of them) would make Hali a Sack-monster in the NFL.

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're probably right

About not getting the calls since he isn’t a “name” player and even moreso maybe because he’s playing on a team that has been bad the last few years.

And I think if they trotted the same guys on defense out as they did last year, there would still be marked improvement, just because time and reps is so important in learning to play the 3-4 effectively. Add some more talented players, especially at nose tackle, and the improvement could be huge.

by alakan81 on Mar 21, 2010 7:56 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

You make a good case.

It would seem that maybe a NT would be our logical #1 pick & safety would fall in our 2a or 2b pick. The Chiefs scouts do seem to be looking at alot of safeties lately.
We may be ready to pounce on the best NT or a player we can groom to be one. Still a gamble to say the least.
Now I am really hoping we can trade down.
Boy, am I glad I’m not Scott Pioli.

Scott Pioli's star will shine in 2010.
Win or lose, the Chiefs scare the bejesus of all opponents in 2010

by ChiefsChance on Mar 20, 2010 4:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Not really

NT is an even lower position on the compensation totem pole than safety is.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 20, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe so. I see that trend & compensation changing quickly.

Quality NT are in more demand now than ever. Especially with the NFL teams switching to the 3-4 D.

Scott Pioli's star will shine in 2010.
Win or lose, the Chiefs scare the bejesus of all opponents in 2010

by ChiefsChance on Mar 20, 2010 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

You could really be right

However, the skill set at NT isn’t in as short supply as the pass-rush capability in other positions on the defensive line, and safeties are gaining in value relative to corners and linebackers quite a bit as well.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 20, 2010 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with the thought pattern and rec

There probably is some unwritten GM manual that tells all of them not to blow up the salary structure on a whim. Bad Precedent would be set. I would go DL or OL and I really don’t care about the supposed BPA that would mean take a Safety. Now a CB would fit a shutdown CB. But here on AP moving Berry to another position of need is taboo :(

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 4:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Not about the money ...

Berry may not be the best Safety in draft .. forget about the money talk, the best move KC could do is trade down and grab Earl Thomas. The money value will be much better and from the few videos I saw, he seems to be a better safety than Berry .. but again I’m no scout but just a regular fan so what do I know .. but one sure thing, I haven’t seen Berry help his corner the way Thomas has been doing .. to me that’s the most important aspect for a safety .. both seems fairly good tackler, but Thomas seems stronger.

by OneChiefs on Mar 20, 2010 4:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Good though..

Mike Mayock just happens to have Earl Thomas as his top safety. And I just happen to think he is the smartest football scout/analyst out there. So I like what your’e saying. From what I have heard, Thomas has better coverage skills but he is a small safety. Who cares! By trading down we get more picks, have to dish out less money to a safety, and we get just as great of a safety regardless. I would be all for that move.

by tmurawsk on Mar 20, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think LB is way overvalued. Do you stick with that precedent, or just do what's sensible?

You make a good case, but these precedents are set by teams who are poorly managed.

by hmills110 on Mar 20, 2010 5:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Money is not a consideration for us....

…at all…

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Mar 20, 2010 5:20 PM CDT reply actions  

exactly ... Clark has LOTS of it

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 20, 2010 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

i agree but...

I agree money will play some part in this but it would be pointless to cut a quality young safety like Pollard just to draft one in the 1st round. Its the equivalent of cutting Albert to draft a LT or Charles and drafting a RB. Besides if the front 7 don’t improve in a major way he will have little chance to succeed. We need to build from the inside out.

by rich04 on Mar 20, 2010 6:13 PM CDT reply actions  

again, Pollard was cut for specific reasons

Reasons we prolly don’t fully know…
But, IMO, mostly related to attitude.

So, all the talk about him is moot… basically, KC now needs Safeties, and will look to draft guys that will fit in w this team

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense

by stagdsp on Mar 20, 2010 8:40 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I've been saying this for 3 months

Safetys just aren’t worth that much money.

by ChiefDJ on Mar 20, 2010 8:42 PM CDT reply actions  

No one is worth that much money.

KANSAS CITY CHIEFS 2010 DRAFT: (top 6 picks)
1.05) Eric Berry (S – Tennessee)
2.36) Jerry Hughes (DE/OLB – Texas Christian)
2.51) Terrence Codi or Cam Thomas (NT – Alabama / NC)
3.68) Jon Asamoah (OL – Illinois)
4.99) Jordan shipley (WR/PR – Texas)
5.133) Mitch Petrus (OL – Arkansas)

by DivineGrace on Mar 20, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's true

WHOEVER gets drafted in the top 5 is going to be among the highest paid at their position
they will be OVERPAID regardless

I’d still take the BEST player available that helps my team…

which is probably Berry

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* KC will NOT draft a LT in the first round, and the draft WILL be heavy on defense

by stagdsp on Mar 20, 2010 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

You cant separate a player from his position

And the “value” of the positions are listed above in terms of dollars.

by Foilhat on Mar 20, 2010 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

And it's a nonsensical argument

Because those are based not on rookies, but on all players at those positions. That skews the numbers, due to the second contracts.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 21, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

A nice post about economics and position value

Two important concepts the Berry bandwagon do not want to think about about.

by Foilhat on Mar 20, 2010 9:54 PM CDT reply actions  

those are concepts the NFL doesn't want to think about

come on, eleventybazillion for these rookies? please!

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 21, 2010 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree that KC won't pick Eric Berry with the #5 pick

Because I think…

~Buffalo Bills trade for the pick to get Jimmy Clausen with the 5th overall pick.
~Eric Berry will be drafted by the Cleveland Browns with the 7th overall pick.
~Kansas City Chiefs use the 9th overall pick to get Dan Williams.

by ChiefsFan90s on Mar 20, 2010 10:04 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't get the Dan Williams thing, though

He’s just not that terrific. He wasn’t really an impact player on the Tennessee line in college, and he’s not an overly impressive physical specimen. His burst and line control haven’t been all that impressive. To me, he’s always been worth less than Cody, who is nothing if not extremely skilled and proven at playing NT in the 3-4, which Williams has never done.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 21, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dan Williams is the definition of a "Pioli pick"

~unsexy pick
~not necessarily the best player, but fits the “right 53”
~team player
~will speak with his play on the field; not with his mouth off the field
~solid contributer
~perfect fit for the 3-4

In Pioli’s mind, it is about the “right 53”; not about being terrific. Dan does his job, and that is all he is going to be asked to do.

by ChiefsFan90s on Mar 21, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, Terence Cody is not exactly the sure thing either.

Reminds me a bit of Terdell Sands. The size is there, but that he seems to be. A big body.

by ChiefsFan90s on Mar 21, 2010 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nothing like Terdell Sands

Did you watch Cody? He was one of college football’s most dominant linemen the past two years, and he did it in the 3-4, controlling line in exactly the same way he would be expected to at the NFL level. He’s huge, strong, and extremely smart when engaging blockers. The recent trend on him is mostly paralysis by overanalysis.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 22, 2010 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

ChiefsFan90s ... yeah, Williams is like that ... just like ...

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Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
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by upamtn on Mar 21, 2010 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

"right 53"

What does that even mean, and how does one tell whether a guy fits it or not? That’s not something you or I can possibly see without actually knowing the guy the way scouts and GMs do: behind closed doors in an interview-like setting, or at dinner.

I don’t know that I saw anything that made him stand out as more of a team player than Terrence Cody, he definitely didn’t contribute like Cody did, and he’s not nearly as perfect for the 3-4 as Cody is. I’m not sure what advantage Williams is supposed to hold over him.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 22, 2010 7:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Somebody is likely to make Berry the highest paid safety.

It’s hard to say what Pioli will do. This post does make me think the salary issue reduces the chance we take Berry, but if we don’t , I still think he will go high enough to be the highest paid safety in the league anyway, maybe not, but very possible. If Piol isn’t willing to pay Berry what the number 5 pick would require, I hope we trade down and get Thomas or a potential NT, both serious needs. I think the moves made on the O-line, in Free Agency would indicate Pioli isn’t going to draft a left tackle with the first pick, and will go defense, which I hope he does. I think our O-line played well the last 4 or 5 games, even with the players we had. With the additions made, I think we can wait until 2a, 2b or even maybe the 3rd to take an O-lineman. I still think out top needs are: NT/Safety, 1 or 2 LB’s (Inside or outside, depending on how some of our younger LB’s develop, like Studebaker and Mays, but definitely another pass rusher to compliment Hali), O-line and Wide Receiver. I am hesitant to spend a high pick on a WR, as there are so many deeper in the draft, just like RB’s, and it is a position that generally takes longer to learn than some others, and one that , I feel, should be filled first through FA, with draft picks to learn the position, and start out as rotational players, not number one or number two receivers. I also think WR’s and QB’s have about the highest bust rates of any position taken high in the draft. I trust Pioli, and even if I may question how he handles the draft, I’m sure he and his staff have a plan in place, and now have had a year to evaluate our needs, unlike last season.

There once was a man from Nantucket......Nevermind.

by Racyman on Mar 20, 2010 10:57 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

rec

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 20, 2010 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dont think money really matters if Scott wants a certain guy. You could argue that because of money, we would have never chosen Tyson Jackson.

Hi. My big board for KC's first rounder is:
1. Russell Okung, OT
2. Eric Berry, S
3. Rolondo McClain, ILB
4. Brian Bulaga, OT
5. Dan Williams, NT
Bye.

by Regime on Mar 21, 2010 1:25 AM CDT reply actions  

However, I still don’t think Eric Berry will be the pick, I think it is about a 10% chance right now that he will be. Rolondo McClain is the safest guy to mock us drafting right now.

Hi. My big board for KC's first rounder is:
1. Russell Okung, OT
2. Eric Berry, S
3. Rolondo McClain, ILB
4. Brian Bulaga, OT
5. Dan Williams, NT
Bye.

by Regime on Mar 21, 2010 1:25 AM CDT reply actions  

Does

the position of the player, and current market of salaries not make a difference?

I always thought that the negotiations had to start at market value..there’s no owner who would sign a guy who automatically is the highest paid safety just because of where he was drafted. People seem to forget that owners HAVE the power. Those players cant go nowhere unless they sit out. And if a player sits out, so be it. He’ll go from a day 1 pick to a mid to late rounder and not get his big payday immediately anyways. I think Crabtree figured that out.

I mean..it just doesnt make sense in the sense of BUSINESS to pay aplayer based on where he’s drafted. I’m willing to bet that if Berry is signed, the market of current salaries of players in similar positions will have an effect on his contract. He’ll be a high paid player, but I seriously doubt that he’ll automatically become the highest paid safety simply because he was drafted at #5 in the 2010 NFL Draft.

by Petey14 on Mar 21, 2010 3:53 AM CDT reply actions  

The whole slotting that the agents do is based on position of pick

I think there was a huge fight over a QB that was picked at one and traded and wanted the 1st pick money too, something like that. I agree that the would be probably a small difference of a few million or something, maybe a longer contract but the agent is going to fight hard for that slot money of the #5 pick whoever it is

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 21, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

There has also been the rookie salary pool for each team

It’s based on the picks the team has in the draft, cannot be exceeded, and typically teams use up the entire rookie pool. It’s essentially a rookie salary cap for each team, although not quite in the same sense that many would like. However, I do not know if it will be in effect for 2010 or 2011, since the general salary cap will not be in place.

Boycott Facebook. It's lame. Inform your real friends that you're going to communicate with them like a normal human being, and then delete your account. Seriously.

by burntorangehorn on Mar 21, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes I think the Rookie salary pool was scrapped

so maybe? it doesn’t apply.

Yet the third rail in Pro sports is Agents :(

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 21, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand

the fact that agents try to fight hard for the slot money.

But as an owner, you have to look at this as a business deal, because, ULTIMATELY…the OWNERS have the power to say NO! And if the player/agent doesnt work out a deal, the player doesnt play football for a year, and his draft stock goes way down. Does anybody really thing that Michael Crabtree still would have been a 1st round pick if he would have held out? I dont. Not a 1st rounder, let alone a top 10 pick.

Let me pull a quick scenario for you.

Agent: "Okay, Eric Berry deserves 5 year, 60 million, 28 guaranteed contract because he was drafted at #5

Owner: “But the highest paid safety in the NFL is Antrel Rolle and he has a 5 year, 37 million, 15 guaranteed. Why would I double that simply because Eric Berry is the best COLLEGE Safety, when he has never played a down in the NFL?”

Okay..now..yes. I understand. Jamarcus got a monster contract. Was he the highest paid QB? NO. Jake Long and all those other top LT picks..they had monster contracts..did they become the highest paid LT’s in the NFL? NO.

So WHY would an owner agree to make a safety the HIGHEST paid Safety in the NFL, simply because he was drafted at #5?

I just dont see that happening. I understand that agents use slotting, but at some point..something has to give.

Let me ask one question:

When has a player entered the NFL as a rookie and automatically became the highest paid player at his position? Matter of fact, when has a player entered ANY sport as a rookie and became the highest paid player at his position?

Now that I think about it..drafting Berry makes more and more sense to me. Because of the fact that safeties do NOT make as much as other positions, drafting Berry at 5 would be CHEAPER than drafting..say..an OL or MLB.

Because basically what is being said is that if Berry goes Top 5, and possibly Top 10, he will automatically become the highest paid safety in the league. It doesnt make ANY sense what so ever and I have to believe that there’s no agent out there who can make that deal make sense to any of the 32 owners.

by Petey14 on Mar 22, 2010 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

The main concept I think of is

As far as negotiating goes, I’m almost positive that the salaries of current players in a similar position are apart of the process. I always figured they started at some point along the lines of the average salary of players in a similar position. Not necessarily THE average, but maybe the average of the top so many players. But I’m not going to get into that because IF thats how it goes, I dont have a clue how they would determine where to start from.

I’m not saying theres some magical code they go off of, but I have a hard time believing that an Agent walks into an Owners office and says “Okay, he was drafted in this slot so this is what he should be making” and hammer out the details for weeks, or sometimes months at a time.

I know that top 5 picks get big contracts. I’m used to that. But I’ve never seen a player get drafted and become the highest paid in his position, just because he was drafted high. Not that I know of anyway. I mean..there is literally NO logic to doing that. I mean, you could argue the logic of giving a QB a 60 million dollar contract. But you cant argue the logic behind a rookie becoming the highest paid in his position simply because he was a top 5 pick in the 2010 draft. None. Absolutely nada.

by Petey14 on Mar 22, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Slotting is the only thing considered, except if you're a QB

All other players get a contract commensurate to where they were drafted. This dictates that Berry selected No. 5 automatically becomes the highest paid safety in NFL history. The agent won’t budge from this.

If you question this, why hasn’t there been greater diversity among the top 5 choices over the past decade?

2009 – Round 1
Sel # Player Position School Team
1 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia Detroit Lions
2 Jason Smith T Baylor St. Louis Rams
3 Tyson Jackson DE Louisiana State Kansas City Chiefs
4 Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest Seattle Seahawks
5 Mark Sanchez QB USC New York Jets

2008 – Round 1
Sel # Player Position School Team
1 Jake Long T Michigan Miami Dolphins
2 Chris Long DE Virginia St. Louis Rams
3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College Atlanta Falcons
4 Darren McFadden RB Arkansas Oakland Raiders
5 Glenn Dorsey DT Louisiana State Kansas City Chiefs

2007 – Round 1
Sel # Player Position School Team
1 JaMarcus Russell QB Louisiana State Oakland Raiders
2 Calvin Johnson WR Georgia Tech Detroit Lions
3 Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin Cleveland Browns
4 Gaines Adams DE Clemson Tampa Bay Buccaneers
5 Levi Brown OT Penn State Arizona Cardinals

2006 – Round 1
Sel # Player Position School Team
1 Mario Williams DE North Carolina State Houston Texans
2 Reggie Bush RB USC New Orleans Saints
3 Vince Young QB Texas Tennessee Titans
4 D’Brickashaw Ferguson T Virginia New York Jets
5 A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State Green Bay Packers

2005 – Round 1
Sel # Player Position School Team
1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers
2 Ronnie Brown RB Auburn Miami Dolphins
3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan Cleveland Browns
4 Cedric Benson RB Texas Chicago Bears
5 Cadillac Williams RB Auburn Tampa Bay Buccaneers

2004 – Round 1
Sel # Player Position School Team
1 Eli Manning QB Mississippi San Diego Chargers
2 Robert Gallery T Iowa Oakland Raiders
3 Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh Arizona Cardinals
4 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State New York Giants
5 Sean Taylor FS Miami (Fla.) Washington Redskins

You have to go back to 2004 before you find a secondary defender. In that time, 8 QBs have been chosen, 6 LOTs, 5 RBs, 4 DEs, 3 WRs, 2 LBs, and 1 DT (Glenn Dorsey).

I guess from a historical perspective, is Eric Berry as good as or better than Sean Taylor? Here’s the impact Taylor had in his first four seasons: http://www.nfl.com/players/seantaylor/profile?id=TAY696860

I’m not sure that sort of impact warrants the 5th pick. Certainly not at a level that is 50% above that of the franchise designation.

by Dagda on Mar 22, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oops

left a comment but I guess I didnt leave it as a reply. My mistake. See my reply below.

by Petey14 on Mar 22, 2010 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay..

But when Sean Taylor was drafted..

Rivers received a six-year, $40.5 million, 15 guaranteed contract.

Taylor received a 7 year, 18 million dollar contract. the Guaranteed money is unknown (atleast I was unable to find it, and no, the 18 million mark is NOT the guaranteed amount.)

Thats a HUGE difference..Not only did he have 1 more year on his contract, but the total contract was worth 22.5 million LESS than the QB drafted right before him.

That further indicates to me that Slotting is NOT the only thing considered when putting together a rookie contract.

As far as comparisons go..

Rivers – 6 year, 40.5 million, 15 guaranteed.

Sanchez – 5 year, 44.5 million, 28 guaranteed.

After 6 drafts, the average salary hasnt gone up too much. About 2 million. However, guaranteed money has skyrocketed.

by Petey14 on Mar 22, 2010 11:51 PM CDT reply actions  

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