Retrospective: The Jared Allen Trade
by TheK-man on Mar 14, 2010 10:22 AM CDT
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PrintIf someone asked me today, knowing what I now know, that by trading Jared Allen, we could obtain Branden Albert, a fixture on our O-Line, most likely for years to come, AND the surging superstar running back, Jamaal Charles, and that the Chiefs would save approximately 74 million dollars over the next five years, the amount it took the Vikings to get him signed and in theory, the very same money that is now paying in full Cassels entire contract obligation from the Chiefs.....well let's just say I would have been willing to wear leather chaps at Missy B's on a Saturday night in order to accomplish that.
One could argue, and I am, that trading Allen at that time, freed the Chiefs spending spirit enough to allow Scott Pioli to bring with him from New England, our franchise QB of the future in Matt Cassel.
Yes, I still believe, and am trusting that Scott knows more than me when it comes to talent, and that Matt can and will become the Trentesque QB that we have come to expect behind Center.
I'm sorry, but I just gotta believe baby.
So, if someone asked me back then on that darkest of days, in the minds of many Chiefs fans....to approve the following::
Trade Jared Allen to the Vikings.....but....KNOWING that we would get in return .......
an O-line fixture in Branden Albert,
IN ADDITION to the next greatest and I believe destined to be the best RB in the NFL in Jamaal Charles.....
PLUS, your franchise QB of the future with his entire contract paid for by the money freed up from not having to retain the services of Mr. Allen.....well........
WOULDN'T WE REALLY HAVE TO DO THAT????
I think so.
The more time that passes, the more I like that we unloaded Allen when we did.
What do my fan buddies think?
The K-Man
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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This trade was equal to trading Derrick Thomas after his 3rd year. Thats what kind of player Jared was to us.
You tell me if the trade was worth it. A QB who holds the ball too long. Cant hit the deep pass.
Good news,
We didnt trade JA for a QB that holds the ball too long and can’t hit a deep pass. We traded JA for our franchise LT and a rising superstar RB.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
by paratrooper on Mar 14, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Franchise LT
You’re making an assumption that Albert will become that. He hasn’t been a dominant lineman. He’s had stretches where he’s shown dominance, but also stretches where he’s looked average at best. Franchise players don’t display the level of inconsistency Albert has.
Not saying he can’t be a franchise player, but he’s currently not.
As for Charles, his ranking as a “superstar” depends greatly on how much his carries get split with Thomas Jones.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
People want to forget Albert had a solid rookie year
and that he got a lot better towardsd the end of his second year. Give the guy some time. But yes, i will concede that Albert isn’t a franchise LT but he has the potential. So i would take a potential franchise LT over a high risk DE anyday.
JC’s superstar potential has nothing to do with Thomas Jones. If he is averaging 5+ yds per carry and breaking off long runs for TD’s every game, no one will care if he only carried 15 times.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
by paratrooper on Mar 14, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
You're Making My Point
People want to forget Albert had a solid rookie year…
Solid…not brilliant. Ryan Clady had a brilliant rookie year like you’d expect from a franchise player. Albert did well, but was an average left tackle.
…and that he got a lot better towardsd the end of his second year.
And was up and down and largely forgettable for the other ten games. A six-game stretch of dominance combined with ten games of up and down play does not a franchise player make.
But yes, i will concede that Albert isn’t a franchise LT but he has the potential.
I would agree with this, but the point is that where Albert has potential to produce, Jared Allen has produced. And frankly, we could have had Ryan Clady with that #5 pick anyway without dumping Allen (and could possibly have had Jamaal Charles as well since we were picking again three spots later).
The Jared Allen trade was not the Herschel Walker deal, but I think we came out squarely on the losing end of it.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Come on UC,
If you expect a rookie or second year player to produce at a pro bowl level all the time, then you are going to be sadly dissapointed a lot. I wouldn’t say Albert had his ups and downs this year, it looked more to me that he started off slow and finished strong. Haley said he breaks the season down into fourths, i bet if you look at it like that Albert will show a steady progression through out the course of the season.
You want to argue Clady, but i bet if we go back into the archives before that pre draft you were ragging on his low scores. We don’t have Clady on our team so i dont think it even matters what he has done. Plus Clady had somewhat of a down year this year. Our best past rusher pretty much had his way with Clady while Albert shut down the Bronco’s.
What bout JC though, I would say he has produced and has had more of an impact on our team that JA has had on the Vikings and it seems the Chiefs believe so as well, making JC the teams MVP.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
We also need to remember
B.Albert had a good first year then had to learn a totally new scheme his 2nd year. So I’ll give him another year before i pass judgment.
i am glad jared is gone...
bad on running game….
only gets sacks against bad LT…
he woulld not get a sack on us.
matt can and will complete the long ball…
maybe if his WR could hold the ball
and not get suspended it would go better
by kcstevesportsfan on Mar 14, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
"he would not get a sack on us"
are you high? our o-line was terrible and he’s the best pass rusher in the NFL
I don't know that I'd call Allen a future H.O.Fer yet
And I don’t think I would call Albert and Charles average. Albert is at least an above average LT and Charles was spectacular in the time he has started. Plus, Allen would’ve been out of position in the 3-4. Allen is a great player, but as time goes on, it looks like a better and better trade.
Charles very nearly set the single game rushing record in Denver.
I think he’s well above average.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Mar 14, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
And he pulled himself from game before breaking it.
Said he wanted to do it against a better team, hah love it
True and Valuable Quotes:
"Charles In Charge"
"Defense Wins Championships"
"The Battle is Won and Lost in the Trenches"
(which for the most part we are currently loosing).
If we had Allen...
Who said we would have switched to the 3-4? We had sacks and pressures with Allen/Hali.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 14, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Who said we would have switched to the 3-4?
The Don…he knew when he came here that he wanted the 3-4 and that he wanted Crennel…it just took an extra year to get Romeo.
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Mar 14, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
BUT
Would Pioli even be here if we still were running a 4-3 with Allen/Hali coming off the edges? Without Allen taking on edge, our defense fell apart.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 14, 2010 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
To be fair
our D sucked when we had JA. Now was he part of the problem? I would say he was a liability in the run game but a superb pass rusher. Hard for a D to fall apart when it was already at the bottom of the league.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
Our Defense Was Mediocre With Allen In Our Lineup
14th. We fell to bottom three once he left.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
That was the year we went 9-7 with Herm and went to the playoffs right?
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
Nope
That was the year (2007) we went 4-12 and tried to hand the starting QB job to Brodie Croyle.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
I think that we were setting up for failure
Without accepting it because they knew we were getting bad and we were going to rebuild very soon anyhow, if you saw the trend with our record the last several years
True and Valuable Quotes:
"Charles In Charge"
"Defense Wins Championships"
"The Battle is Won and Lost in the Trenches"
(which for the most part we are currently loosing).
In 2006
We were 11th in points allowed and 16th in yardage. Which also qualifies as mediocre (albeit on the better end of mediocre). In 2008 and 2009 the Chiefs were 29th in points allowed and 31st and 30th, respectively in yardage.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Exactly, we had a defense we could have built around
Traded JA and now we are just finally again finding our identity on both sides of the ball.
I’m not trying to say we shouldn’t have traded JA or we would be constant play off contenders with him.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 14, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
The biggest failing for Peterson in that entire debacle was his inept handling of negotiations which made it necessary to trade Allen in the first place. Just a terribly botched mess that cost us a great player.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
I think JA has grown up a lot since he left KC.
I was never that much of a Jared Allen fan when he was here. Back in the Vermeil days when we had a defense that couldn’t get off the field, it seemed like Allen was prone to making the occasional boneheaded play that resulted in a personal foul that would elongate a drive for the opposing offense. I am no Carl Peterson fan, but there’s no question that Carl was right. Jared Allen was a “young man at risk” when he was in Kansas city. He clearly had a drinking problem and was irresponsible enough to get behind the wheel of his car. Jared Allen is lucky he didn’t kill or hurt himself or others. After reading Joe Posnanski’s piece about him in Sports Illustrated it seemed like he has matured a lot.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
by Rev. Slappy on Mar 14, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
No, Allen changed his ways after his second dui before he was traded.
Instead of partying all the time, he changed his whole life around to focus on eating right, getting in better shape, and improving himself on the field. That is why he was pissed at Carl, because he did clean himself up and get himself on the right track, but Carl went back on his word and refused to give him a contract to stay in KC.
Say all you want about his irresponsibility before, but Jared Allen got his shit together well BEFORE he went to Minnesota. Otherwise, the deal would have never been made.
I don't disagree.
Allen wanted the trade because he was angry with Peterson. But have you read the Posnanski piece about Allen? The whole thing is about how much he’s grown up.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
I Would Tend To Agree With The People Who Said It Was A Bad Trade
We got rid of a 3rd year, premier pass-rushing defensive end just entering his prime (which are pretty tough to find) in exchange for Jamaal Charles (who I like but who may or may not be a feature back), DaJuan Morgan (who looks like a bust), and Branden Albert, a solid-but-not-great LT who may end up being a guard or a RT. Put it this way…if you were the Minnesota GM and we offered you those three players in exchange for Allen, would you take that deal?
The only thing that makes this trade more palatable is that if Jared Allen had been kept and the Chiefs hired Pioli and Haley and they went to a 3-4 defense, Allen probably would not have fit. Based on the actual exchange of talent and the information available at the time, though, it was a bad trade.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Correction
4th year end, entering 5th year. He was 26. Which is the start of the prime for a player of his caliber.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
And he had just put up his best numbers as a Chief
Which he has yet to match with the Vikings. I can only imagine what he and Hali would be doing to opposing QBs. We’d be looking at a better pass rush than Freeney/Mathis, perhaps.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius
by ArrowSpread on Mar 14, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I Don't See That At All In His Stats
He’s averaging 14.5 sacks per season with the Vikings. He averaged 10.75 per season with the Chiefs. His tackle numbers are down, but that’s also because he’s playing on a much better defense and is getting more help. He’s the same player he was with the Chiefs in 2007, which is to say an All-Pro caliber player (which is exactly what the Vikings were trading for) and barring injury there’s no reason to believe he won’t continue that level of performance for another four or five years.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
I agree in part, but consider the cash
I’m over the misery and consequences of the trade from 2008, and in 2009, Jared had 14.5 sacks vs. Tamba’s 8.5, for a net difference of 6 sacks. I can live with that now, knowing that the worst of it is over, and there’s a new draft a coming.
I meant at the time he was traded
15.5 Sacks, 55 Tackles, 10 pass. def., 3 forced fumbles in 2007. In 14 games.
He had just put up his best single season of his career — as a Chief — at the time he was traded.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius
And I believe he caught a couple touchdowns that year too.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius
And
he was one DUI away from being a felon…..
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
by paratrooper on Mar 14, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Thank You PT
we can gaze into the crystal ball all day long but the truth was, at the time, no one knew IF he would get his act straight and quit drinking and driving. There are enough situations of individuals out there to support a change of venue is necessary to take raw talent to the elite player. Minnesota may be his place to find his nirvana.
Cincy took a bunch of first round talent and they seemed to excel this year in a new atmosphere. Some of those guys just needed a place to flourish where they hadn’t worn out their welcome with off the field trouble. JA had his in KC and without some compelling reason for CP to believe he would change, he got some value for him. K-Man has outlined his reasons in detail and i will leave the value discussion to you all.
I personally don’t think it was ever a choice between a potential pro-bowler traded for top draft picks as much as it was a multi-million dollar gamble with a soon to be contract year rich loose cannon.
by stenerud's roost on Mar 14, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Signing JA to a long term deal
would’ve been bad business.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
by paratrooper on Mar 14, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
Because he hasn’t had any DUI issues in Minnesota, he’s averaging 14.5 sacks per season and he’s turned a very solid defense into an outstanding one. Most of his problems in Kansas City were a result of Carl Peterson not wanting to pay the man and being rather dickish about the negotiations. And from what we’ve seen the last two years, Carl Peterson really screwed up.
I like Jamaal Charles and I think Branden Albert has promise, but there’s no way that Albert, Charles and Morgan are worth what the Vikings got in Allen and Sullivan.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Really
We had no idea if he was going to straighten out or not. Sign him to his 70 million dollar contract then he goes out and parties drives home and kills three people. Then what? I’m no fan of Carl but i can understand the business side of this decision.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
by paratrooper on Mar 14, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It Was An Understandable Gamble
But history has shown so far that Peterson was wrong. Allen’s been a leader on a very good team and the Chiefs defense bottomed out the last two years. Do I think it was the worst gamble ever? No…but that still doesn’t mean that Peterson gets credit for making a smart decision.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Oh i love me some JA
but im over it and im happy with Albert and Charles. Do i wish we would have hit on Morgan? Sure, but those two players alone make it worth it to me as long as Albert continues to progess. If he fails this season then i will gladly say i was wrong but untill then, this trade gives me a warm and fuzzy.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
And If Albert Develops Into A Top LT
Then I’ll gladly admit that the trade was a good one. At this point, though, I’m just looking at what the trade has produced rather than what I hope it will produce.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
“Oh i love me some JA”
“Do i wish we would have hit on Morgan? Sure”
“this trade gives me a warm and fuzzy.”
Is there a subliminal message here?
Predictions:
1) Fans will feel just scads better from mid-to-end of the 2010 season.
2) During the 2021 season, Ryan Succop will become the Chiefs’ all-time leading scorer with 1469 points.
Haha
I see what you did there! lol But no, you are safe.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
Sullivan?
Their center? He wasn’t part of the trade.
1. Suh will fall to us at 5
2. McClain will fall to us at 2a
3. The Chiefs will trade DJ and Dorsey
by I_Bleed_Red. on Mar 14, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
How quickly we forget that
At the time, he was a drunk, with questionable longevity, hanging out in his bar at night.
And Matt Cassel Does Not Swing My Opinion At All
I like Cassel and he did okay all things considered, but the guy ain’t Len Dawson and I doubt he’ll ever be a top five QB and possibly may not be a top ten caliber QB.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
How do we know, he ain't Lenny?
He has time to become all that Lenny, and Scott thinks he will. On the surface, that’s the way it appears to me also, so I do understand and appreciate the comment, but right now, I’m just adopting an “In Scott we Trust”, attitude, for me, an exercise in humility.
Also
I Minnesota recieved John Sullivan in the 6th round who was a good enough center that they let probowl Matt Birk walk
"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.
by craig in calgary on Mar 14, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Peter King's words, not mine:
It’s not certain, but it’s possible that history will show that the Vikings got a more productive player at 187 (Sullivan) than the Chiefs got at 15 (Albert). Ouch.
"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.
by craig in calgary on Mar 14, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I Would Agree With That
Sadly. Sullivan’s probably been a better offensive lineman than Albert. I sure as hell would have loved to have had him playing center for the Chiefs instead of Rudy Niswanger.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
We could...
have got him. All we did was swap in the 6th meaning we had a shot at him before MN got their hands on him.
1. Suh will fall to us at 5
2. McClain will fall to us at 2a
3. The Chiefs will trade DJ and Dorsey
by I_Bleed_Red. on Mar 14, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
We Could
But didn’t. Which was more a knock on the Chiefs’ player evaluators than anything else. They passed on Jeremy Zuttah to grab DaJuan Morgan, they passed on Anthony Collins to grab Will Franklin, and they missed Sullivan. They could have built a very solid o-line off the picks they screwed up on in that one draft.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
To Illustrate
If the Chiefs had drafted a little better, we could have had
LT: Branden Albert
LG: Brian Waters
C: John Sullivan (instead of Kevin Robinson)
RG: Jeremy Zuttah (instead of DaJuan Morgan)
RT: Anthony Collins (instead of Will Franklin)
None of those three guys we drafted instead have amounted to anything in a Chiefs uniform and two of them were gone after their first year with the team.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Man, that could have been something. I was shocked that they didn’t go Zuttah with that last 3rd. I think he went off the board the next pick. I remember waking up at 8am in the mouring because I was excited w/ our three, 3rd rounders. A RB when we had LJ, a TE when we had TG, and a safety when we had Page and Pollard. I actually liked the Charles pick, but was confused as hell with the other 2.
1. Suh will fall to us at 5
2. McClain will fall to us at 2a
3. The Chiefs will trade DJ and Dorsey
by I_Bleed_Red. on Mar 14, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
I hated all of the picks after Charles. Except for Brandon Carr, can’t say as history has shown my initial impression to be very far off. Cottam’s got potential but he doesn’t seem to see the field enough…either by coach’s choice or injury. Morgan sucks…I’ll just say that now, he sucks. I have no idea why he’s been around as long as he has, and he’s never going to be good. The rest of those draft picks were a waste.
I was probably maddest about the Chiefs passing on Anthony Collins though. I couldn’t believe the Chiefs went with an inconsistent WR over a tackle who’d been consistently good and at times dominant…especially when it meant another season of Sackintosh.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
It's still inaccurate to mention Sullivan as a part of the trade
Sullivan was available to the Vikings with either of the 6th round picks.
No More Inaccurate Than Mentioning Albert, Charles Or Morgan
The talent received out of draft picks involved with the trade, for both sides, is a relevant part of the discussion.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
I don't always agree with him
But calling a respected member of the media an IDIOT isn’t much of an argument.
"I've only been in love with a beer bottle and a mirror" - Sid Vicious.
by craig in calgary on Mar 14, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Wasnt the JC pick..OUR pick
We traded for the 2 later picks in the 3rd round…that was the year we drafted Dorsey correct? With the 5th overall?
I have a feeling that 2010 will be a defining year for the Kansas City Chiefs. Do we become the 2001 Patriots or footballs version of the royals??
by Cowboynchrist on Mar 14, 2010 8:07 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Nope
That was Brad Cottam (with a draft pick we got via a trade involving Miami and Detroit). Miami drafted in our spot in the third round. We selected Cottam with the trade down pick.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Miami???
I thought Detroit took Kevin Smith with our spot in the 3rd? We traded the 17th pick for the 15th pick, a swap in the 3rd, and our 5th rounder we got from sending Green to Miami. At least I think thats what happened.
1. Suh will fall to us at 5
2. McClain will fall to us at 2a
3. The Chiefs will trade DJ and Dorsey
by I_Bleed_Red. on Mar 15, 2010 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I Don't Remember The Details
Wikipedia lists it as a three way trade involving Detroit and Miami and Miami picked in that spot.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Miami Was Selecting First Each Round That Year
And Smith was the first pick of the 3rd round.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
only if it's Viagra!
Cuz this post should be givin you a stiffy!! Look at all the value we got!!
The newest addition to the Eric Berry fanclub
Gosh the coulda woulda shoulda's
of the world. If only pigs could fly!! Peterson and Edwards destroyed KC. thats a given looking back but why cry now?
We traded a player that we weren't going to be able to resign and had problems staying out of trouble for 2 solid starters and a bust.
Is it great? No. But it is what we had to do. And if you just look at we traded a troubled player that was unsignable for a 1st, and 2 3rd rounders then yes it was a great trade. Carl Peterson made a very good trade he may have made sub par picks from that trade but those are two different questions.
The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.
My prediction
Brandon Albert is probably one of the most athletic LTs in the league. He played at a high level (not elite, but hight level) his rookie year. The guy didn’t start at LT all through college and got hurt in training camp. He came in on week one and was able to handle the NFLs finest. So we are are writing him off now because in the first 10 weeks he had to adjust to a diffenerent playing weight and scheme? Give me a break. He played at an elite level the last six weeks and will only continue to become a better player. He will be a star in this league.
Jamal Charles is our only explosive playmaker on offense. He is the offense right now. The kid has matured into an amazing running back. Not to mention he has run behind a sub par line. He will be a star in this league for years to come and will have the 2nd most yards from scrimage next year.
Dajuan Morgan hasn’t shown anything since he came to KC. He was a junior coming out of college so he wasn’t the most polished safety. I think he still has a chance to become a good player in the NFL. This is the make or break year for him. I believe he will start at SS and will be a productive player for us next year.
1. Suh will fall to us at 5
2. McClain will fall to us at 2a
3. The Chiefs will trade DJ and Dorsey
Stop trying to fight tirades with facts
That won’t get you very far around here. I like the trade. They stunk with him and they stunk without him. Picked up two starters as a result. Allen is a great player if you just let him loose to run fullbore around the end. Quickest way to neutralize that is run the ball right at him.
allen is not a 3-4 DE anyway. we woulda traded him when pioli arrived anyway. I miss Jared, but i'm very happy with JC & Albert. It was a good trade for both sides
Tough times never last, but tough people do.
No, it was still a bad trade, and here's why:
You’re making the assumption that we wouldn’t have gotten a star LT and Charles unless we traded Allen. That’s not true. We likely would have drafted Ryan Clady at #5, and we still might have gotten Charles, since keeping Allen would have meant that LJ probably would have been traded, thus leaving us needing a RB.
A lot of people felt that Carl Peterson was only going to sign one player to the big contract, and LJ and Allen were both after a new contract. Peterson obviously chose to give LJ the cash.
Yes, I am still pissed about the trade, and will be until we get a pass rusher that puts up over 10 sacks a season for 3-4 years. Trading away your best talent while he’s in his prime is a horrible, horrible idea. I’ll hate that every time.
Official member of the "Draft Eric Berry" fan club... But I'm not changing my picture, dammit!
by Red N Gold Beast on Mar 15, 2010 9:32 AM CDT reply actions
Thanks for chiming in guys....
Just wanted to say thanks for all the comments you guys have made following my post. A lot of interesting points have been made. I’ve enjoyed them all.
Can’t wait for the upcoming trades and the draft.
This is an exciting time for Chiefs fans. No way to go but up. Enjoy the ride.
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