Take a step back from the Eric Berry Kool Aid
Eric Berry's fan club has been running wild in the AP blog this week and I can partially understand why. The kid is an amazing talent and would definitely be an immediate improvement to our secondary. However, how many safeties can we justify moving through in the last couple years. Granted, the Pioli/Haley era is just beginning and they are making changes (which I love for the most part), but let's look at our safety activity of the recent past.
It all started with the release of Bernard Pollard before the start of last year (WHAAAAAAAAATT!!!) Was anyone else blown away by this move. I just remember him as a PLAYMAKER!! Maybe there were other issues that I am not completely aware of. I know he got burned from time to time, but he was only in his 3rd season.
The next step is picking up Mike Brown to fill in - How was this an improvement over Bernard Pollard??
John McGraw saw a lot of playin time - and I love to watch this guy HIT!!!! After watching a Herm Edwards led team mis tackles for 3 years, it was a pleasure watching this hammer take people out this past season!!!
Then what happened to DaJuan Morgan who we drafted in the 3rd round of the 2008 draft out of NC State?????
What I am getting at is how in the world can we spent this many moves and draft picks on safeties while our Offensive line is built with one staple (Brian Waters), an up and coming talent (Brandon Albert), and a bunch of hole filler or drywall mud (Rudy Niswager, Wade Smith (Gonner), , Barry Richardson, a few others). None of these guys can keep their jobs!!!!
We need to protect Matt Cassel, make holes for our DYNAMIC backfield, and have receivers that can catch (getting better already)!!! If these 3 things happen it will be amazing how much better or defense looks when they are not on the field for 40 minutes out of 60.
I am going to love whoever is picked at #5 because all of the options are outstanding, but in a draft like this one when their are offensive lineman that are a lock to be able to step in and be more than just effective, but potentially great for many years. How can we say no?? The chiefs are the 2nd or 3rd youngest team in the NFL and with Brian Waters creeping towards the end I am leaning towards a stud O-lineman to be the #5 pick in this years draft.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I know he got burned from time to time, but he was only in his 3rd season.
“I’ve had this car for three years now and even though it stops working at critical moments from time to time, I still drive it!”
You think it's coincidence that I bleed red?
Put your left ear on your left shoulder
and you’ll see it :D
You think it's coincidence that I bleed red?
"I know he got burned from time to time, but he was only in his 3rd season."
Not that I agree with the reason why Bernard Pollard was cut, but it had to with his bad preseason in 2009 when he didn’t seem to fit in the 3-4 defense. Personally thought, he deserved more time to transition to the 3-4 defense, but Pioli/Haley didn’t seem to think that way.
A couple of things.
1. There isn’t a NT worth taking at #5.
2. We do need to keep Cassell upright more and we are taking those steps with Casey Wiegmann coming back and bringing in Ryan Lilja and Frank Haley for visits. Its a deep draft for O-line, we can still get some starters for that in the later rounds.
3. The only one close to Berry’s talent level is Earl Thomas and he will definitely be gone at our 2a pick.
4. Our secondary will be complete with Berry shutting down most of it.
5. This turned into more than a couple…
Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!
by nateforchiefs on Mar 13, 2010 11:32 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
You really think it is worth passing on a locked in left tackle starter
to rely on some old balls players that have been cut by others teams for one reason or another. Prime example of what builds a dynasty: Indianapolis colts had 18 or 19 starters on their super bowl team this year that they acquired through the draft.
Bleeding Red & Gold
but the highest draft pick that started on that o-line
was a 4th round pick. Not saying that it is foolish to take an o-lineman with the number 5 pick, but they are proof that a great o-line can be built all through out the draft and with UDFAs.
by Fourstrike89 on Mar 13, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
We already have a "locked in left tackle starter" in Branden Albert.
We had the highest rush yards avg in the NFL to the left end. This talk of moving Albert is making me insane. Where’s my skunk? I need it for my headache.
Mayock's suggestion to move
Brandon Albert to his natural position of guard and move waters into center seems like a pretty good plan to immediately improve our line
Bleeding Red & Gold
Except it would immediately downgrade our line at 3 positions. LT, C, and wherever they shift Albert to where he’d have to learn a new position at the NFL level.
No Way does this downgrade our line
Albert has played guard much longer than tackle and how could waters not be an improvement over Niswager?
Bleeding Red & Gold
you do realize that Albert has played LT
longer than Okung has at this point?!!!!
geez. these people just don’t get it.
it is too bad their bosses don’t evaluate their long-term statuses in their companies based on the same eval they try to give Albert.
really, i want someone to explain what a ‘natural’ LT and a ‘natural’ LG look like.
Albert lost weight to play at LT, not to be moved back and forth.
and just for reference, Brian Waters wasn’t even drafted. pointing that out to show that quality linemen are found everywhere. how many starting safeties were undrafted?
"We're not losers, we just can't win!"
by chief Stevie_k on Mar 13, 2010 6:59 PM CST up reply actions
How many safeties have been taken in the first round....
…in the last 5 years combined?
….in the top 15 of the first round in the last 10 years combined?
……in the top 10 of the first round in the last 15 years combined?
………in the top 5 of the first round in the last 20 years combined?
You just don’t get your safety with the the #5 pick. Teams are built around the O-Line, QB, and D front 7. You start in the trenches and you work your way out when you are building a team. You don’t start on the edges/backfield and work your way in. I don’t care how good you safety is.
If your front 7 cant put pressure on the QB and close up running lanes your oponent WILL be able to pass on you. NO ONE (not even 2 Deion Sanders clones and 2 Ed Reed Reed clones – in their prime) can play coverage for very long. Eventually someone is going to get free.
If your offensive line can’t open run holes, and your QB spends 1/2 his time scrambling for his life, 1/4 of his time laying on his back, and 1/8th of his time throwing the ball out of bounds before he gets creamed — then it make no difference how many “pro-bowl” receivers you have on the field; or how many “all-pro” running backs you hand the ball off to.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
It's about finding DBs who can match up physically - speed and size - 1-on-1.
You talk about front 7 needing to get it done, but if half of ‘em are needed to cover receivers because your secondary can’t, then they’re not doing their job of pressuring the QB and run-stuffiing, because you need 2 hats for every one of the opposition’s hats in the pattern.
EVERY time KC sent the blitz in the last 10 years, there was ALWAYS somebody open on a hot route, because KC could not afford to come up and press people. Pollard was useless in this regard. What KC needs is people who can frickin’ COVER, and I am NOT talking about LBs.
So what we’ve seen is soft zone behind virtually every blitz KC put together. This always left somebody wide open in the “shallows” of which you have often spoken.
Our (2) corners are pretty good, especially against WRs who are 6’1’’ or below, because they can bully the smaller WRs at the line. But year in and year out, all offenses have to do is field more than 2 WRs and they obtain an instant mismatch that forces KC to pull in its horns and back off, leaving the LBs in analysis paralysis, afraid to blitz, but needing to honor the play fake, and then take an extra beat getting into the proper drops.
If ALL we were talking about was a good centerfielder, your comments are totally on the mark. But what we HOPE we’re seeing in this Eric Berry kid, is someone who can come up and do some press coverage, as needed. Someone whose mere presence doesn’t SHOUT at the opposition that we’re planning on backing off the instant the offense lines up with a 3-man bunch formation in the slot.
I’m personally starting to have my doubts about Berry’s overall ability to bring this, because I’m questioning his speed is really elite, and whether his upper-body strength/technique is such that he can convincingly tangle with big WRs at the line. The strength aspect is underreported, but is one of the keys to the success of Hasty in years past and Revis (and even Flowers) in the present. THIS is the sort of thing that’s valid to question in MY book, but if he IS a guy who can single-cover, then you can’t predict what KC’s plans are on defense, simply by their personnel package or pre-snap formation.
This frees the front 7 to do their thing without hesitation, which was our ILBs’ biggest issue last season, imo. Better coverage backs give the LBs one or three less decisions to make, which means they can play with a whole lot less hesitation.
In MY book, you fix the front line (better NT, continued development of Dorsey and Jackson at the DE spots) and add at LEAST one more DB who can single-cover or at least come up and PRESS at the line. If you get better at LB, well, all the better, but the LB’s success flows from the linemen’s ability to dominate the opposing OL and from the ability to WIN more of those 1-on-1 matchups in space (at least long enough to strike home with the rush).
MY first priority for this D is to get more stout at LOLB and NT, first – to side Jax and Dorsey. I think this can be done lower in the draft than the 1st (mainly because I’m not sold on any NTs in the 1st in 2010). I think both Jax and Dorsey will more than hold their own if this gets done Personally, I like that Graham kid or some ’tweener like him (pass rush plus stout against the run).
My next priority is convincing coverage guys, and not guys who are under 5’10’’, unless they have a REAL Darrell Green streak (strong AND the fastest guy on the field). This kind of talent isn’t often to be had outside of the 1st.
This all being said, I’m having my doubts that Berry is all THAT good. If he’s dominant, he’s worth it. If he’s just a good safety, then I’m with you. I still would want to spend higher than most, here, would want to spend on DB, because of the importance of the 1-on-1 matchups in space, where a step slow or an inch short can be decisive on a given play.
by hmills110 on Mar 13, 2010 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Okay, setting my Berry "manlove" aside and speaking logically
I don’t disagree with the build from the lines out philosophy. I have said numerous times that if there was a NT worthy of the #5 pick I would be all for that. There just isn’t though, and I think it would be a mistake to reach for a d-line position in the top five picks two years in a row.
Next, the o-line, it does need to get better. However, I believe in Albert and O’Callaghan as our tackles. That just leaves C and RG to upgrade and we can improve those spots through FA and picks in rounds 2-4. Not to mention that the earliest Pioli has ever drafted an o-lineman is pick 32.
So what that really leaves us with (assuming we can’t trade down) is McClain vs. Berry. Now you can take that same argument you are using about safeties in the top five picks and apply it to ILBs in the 3-4. I like McClain, he would be my second choice after Berry. I just happen to believe that Berry is more of an elite player. I know the comparison is getting old (and I’m not just repeating what others have said) but when I watch Berry he really does strike me as very similar to Ed Reed. I’m tired of watching the Chiefs give up drives late in games where we just get picked apart. Flowers is great, but he’s the only d-back we have that other teams have to gameplan around. I want someone out there who is going to go make a play when the game is on the line. It’s a passing league right now and if you can’t stop the pass you’re not going anywhere.
I also believe that our need at safety is much greater then ILB. I think a rotation of Williams, Mays, and DJ can be respectable (not great). However, the current safeties we have are not even respectable. Now I do know that Berry played SS mostly in college. I however believe that his size and skill set translate better to FS then SS in the NFL. I would start him at FS and move Page with his bigger frame and weaker coverage skills to SS.
I think between the improvements the o-line made last year combined with bringing in some new faces via FA and draft picks (rounds 2-4) it will be much better this year. I also believe that with Dorsey and Jackson improving we are a solid NT away from being solid against the run. So I think the “insides” of our team our being addressed and improved. This team is still short on big time, game changing talent. Therefore I have decided that I want an elite playmaker in the secondary where we have a glaring hole more then I do an upgrade at ILB where I see the hole as not as glaring.
I don’t think this reasoning means I don’t understand football. I have just surveyed the options available and prefer a different course of action.
Official Member of the "Draft Eric Berry" Fanclub
by KCporkchop on Mar 13, 2010 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Very solid arguements
TX and Mills and porkchop.
All are true and all are possible outcomes.
Thus I wait
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 13, 2010 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
completely agree.
and these guys can say what they want about our CBs and Ss can only cover guys so long, but i’m pretty sure our secondary had more trouble tackling. did miles austin really ‘burn’ guys because of coverage breakdowns? i seem to remember shoddy tackling. and people seem to give clancy’s D too much credit. crennel will make the whole D better to an extent without any additions. not saying the trenches aren’t important, but i think saying just the trenches are important is incorrect. i believe it is more true to say the whole middle of the defense is important, almost like the middle defense of baseball. all are important.
"We're not losers, we just can't win!"
by chief Stevie_k on Mar 14, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno TC
There’s been 12 DB’s taken top 10 since 2002 and only 7 LB’s. It’s not that uncommon. A fair share of those 12 were at the safety position. I agree that you build from the lines out but there’s no hard rule that you have to use your top pick to do so until you’re stacked. We obviously have a GM who’s not afraid to go against conventional grain.
We have a ton of needs so following conventional value seems like an act of lunacy in this case. What are we to do? Draft a LT when we don’t need one? Draft another DT who doesn’t fit the 34? Draft another DT who would make a fine 34 DE when we don’t need another one? Reach like hell for and NT when we can get one later down the line? I’m not saying I have the slightest idea what Pioli and Co. are going to do, but I just don’t see any scenario above playing out.
Going LB is no less a reach than going S IMO. The argument that you HAVE to go QB, O-line or D front-7 first doesn’t make much sense to me if the caliber prospect in any of those areas doesn’t match a particular area of need for us. Especially when we can get a high quality prospect much later than 5th overall that does fit the bill.
Admittedly, I wouldn’t have minded McClain at all at #5 until I found out he has Crohn’s disease. It’s going to have a major negative impact on his career, so for any other area of need, drafting that high? Berry makes the most sense to me.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Thats what I'm sayin
You get a good defensive front 7, Mike Brown will look like an allstar. We’d have too much pressure on the QB to make that perfect pass. All he would have to do is wait and see the field.
That argument is such bs
If you have the ultimate in a strong front-7 and your secondary is as bad as ours was, teams will exploit it and beat your ass. You need a well balanced team to win consistently. Give me an example of what you say being true. There’s no front-7 in the universe that’s going to make Mike Brown look like an all-star.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I think better pressure would make Morgan, Leggett, Carr and Flowers better.
They’d also help Brown and McGraw (and Page) quite a bit, but you won’t soon see McGraw or Brown coming up in press coverage, because they don’t have the speed to pull it off. The other 4 guys (plus maybe Page) do have the speed, and could probably pull it off.
Brown was mostly about leadership and facilitating others, especially up near the line. But he was brutally exposed in space against speed. On a D that could play downhill, more, his football IQ could be all KC needed from SS. The glue that held it all together, and could anticipate the action enough to more than compensate for being a step slow in space.
I dunno about the rest of ya, but Brown and Vrabel were the two guys who always looked like they knew what the hell was going on on every play. May not have the speed to finish the play on a defense with too many missing pieces, but still very good players to have around.
you wouldn't draft
urlacher, Lewis, willis, etc
reed, polamaulu, etc with a #5 pick?
none of that matters. cf Tyson Jackson.
how much time did cassel spend running for his life the last 6 games?
tell me, how bad was new englands o-line? i believe cassel got sacked more there than he did here. perhaps the line isn’t as much the problem as the qb is.
perhaps gailey’s lack of protection schemes and a complete change in offensive playbook/game plan contributed. perhaps having a featured running back that couldn’t even average 2.7 yards had a lot to do with it.
got news for you, no matter how great your are in the trenches, if your running back can’t even get 2 1/2 ypc, and the whole defense knows that 3rd and 25 is coming each offensive possession, guess what happens? they blitz like hell. they control the game and can do whatever they want. doesn’t matter whether you’re sporting a pro bowl offensive line LT thru RT. we faced 3rd and long almost every possession almost all season until we got rid of johnson and picked up chambers.
at least thigpen had TG to throw to. imagine cassel with TG to throw to.
so i’m sorry, but i don’t see how it is completely the line, and mainly Albert’s fault that we
1) have a qb who holds onto the ball too long (Not just in KC, look at his stats in NE).
2) had -2.7 running behind them, killing the offensive running game.
3) had tight ends who couldn’t block or catch
4) had receivers who couldn’t catch
5) had minimal pass protection at the beginning of the season (thanks to gailey)
6) had an inferior offensive playbook/game plan (thanks to gailey)
as for the D, yeah the offense was better, but it didn’t exactly help the defense stay off the field at all. add in a more time controlling offense, + a year in the new system + weis + crennel and we’ve already vastly improved things.
"We're not losers, we just can't win!"
by chief Stevie_k on Mar 14, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
If you think Cassel was the weak link, maybe you'd enjoy watching something else on Sundays.
Sorry, that’s cold, but I agree that defenses could come up and blitz at will, especially in the 1st half of the season. If there were a receiver that could be depended upon to catch the hot route, things might’ve been different, but there were clearly problems on OL (that mostly went away down the stretch).
I don’t think Cassel has the quickest release, but as the ZB scheme works its way in and the blocking and running continue to improve, Cassel is the right kind of QB to extend plays and find somebody open.
You know its kinda funny to me
people keep saying that we need to draft 1 of these LT in this years draft so we can move Albert to his “natural position” of LG. Well Albert has as much playing time at LT as any of the top 3 LT in this years draft.
Russell Okung played at RT for 3 yrs and LT for 1 yr
Anthony Davis played at RG for 1 yr and LT for 2 yrs
Brian Bulaga played at LG for 1 yr and LT for 2 yrs
So how would any of these guys be an upgrade over Albert at LT?
by badassz1987 on Mar 13, 2010 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
+1 for bringing some logic to this place
"We're not losers, we just can't win!"
by chief Stevie_k on Mar 14, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not so much about the # of years at a given position as it is how GOOD the players are.
Some of us, here, just think Albert isn’t the weak link and none of this year’s draft class impresses as being an instant upgrade. If I believed any of ‘em were, I’d be all about Okung, Bulaga, and the like.
Guard is not Alberts Natural position
It is the position he played in college. But if you remember the LT’s that played next to him the reason for it becomes apparent. If not for those 2 1st Rd draft choices and proven NFL starting LT’s he would have played LT in college.
Don’t confuse the position he played in college with his “Natural position” His measurables say he is an NFL LT, and could play Guard too.
I'm not a smart man
by Gumpster on Mar 13, 2010 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+1 for you too. same reason
"We're not losers, we just can't win!"
by chief Stevie_k on Mar 14, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll be surprised...
I’ll be surprised if we draft Eric Berry. Why? Because every mock draft last year had us taking Aaron Curry and that did not happen. So I just have a feeling that we will not draft him, but hopefully I am wrong. I am a big fan of Rolando McClain, but the more and more I look at it, I think we should draft Eric Berry, because other good LBs can be had later. Well that’s why I can’t wait for the draft to get here. I want to see what we will be working with next year.
Curry also wasn't a great fit in a 3-4
while Tjax filled a major need with us switching to the 3-4. Brown/McGraw are not great starters, Berry/Page could be an excellent safety combo now that the league is turning into a pass first league.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 13, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Agree
Oh I agree that Berry would make a big impact and he would help Page get better. I also am not disappointed with us not taking Curry last year. I think TJ will do the job he is supposed to do. I just hope all these mocks aren’t wrong. I have a habit of getting my hopes up and then the Chiefs don’t take someone I hope they take.
Berry would halp Page get better?
Umm… Berry has never taken a single snap in the NFL.
Berry doesn’t know the first damn thing about the Chiefs defense scheme, plan or system.
Page does.
As far as the NFL is concerned, Berry is nothing. This is the college draft were talking about, not a 5 year NFL veteran. So far you have only seen Berry play against pass happy 7 step drop college spread offenses. You’ve watching him play agaist boys, not men. Berry, Suh, McCoy, Tebow, McClain…all of em… are nothing more than Big fish in a small pond at this point. The NFL is an ocean of talent. I’d wait to see what Berry (or anyone else) can do against NFL quality players before thinking a safety that has never taken a snap in the NFL will make “a big impact” for a team with no viable front 7 on the defense.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Lets put it this way -
If we do draft Berry…
I believe he will be one of our starting safeties.
Though, I hope. I can’t say the same for Page.
Official Member of the "Draft Eric Berry" Fanclub
...you had me at Berry!
by chiefsfan62 on Mar 13, 2010 10:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No viable front 7?
Are you saying our entire front 7 is garbage? Yes we need to upgrade 2-3 spots but I would say there is a good foundation there. Dorsey is coming on. Hali was great last year. Vrabel provides great leadership on the field. DJ, while inconsistant, clearly has ability. Jackson will hopefully take a Dorsey esqe step this year.
I’m curious as to what your answer for our defense would be?
Official Member of the "Draft Eric Berry" Fanclub
Kinda
Dorsey is comming on, abd Hali was “better than expected” last year. He was far from great. Vrabel is a leader, and DJ spent the year on the bench because we had o run stuffer that could play next to him. Jackson was a rookie, and will improve.
The “front 7” as a unit………sucks.
They can’t get a consistent pass rush. They can’t plug the A gaps. They can’t tackle a ball carrier within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. They can’t cover in teh shallow unless DJ is on the field. They can’t put DJ on the field without further exposing the piss poor run defense.
We ahve no viable front 7. They don’t play as a unit. Some individuals cannot handle their responcibilities, and no one can pick up the slack. As a unit…..we have no viable front 7. We have swiss cheese. They may plug up ‘some’ of the field, but they leave huge gaping holes on a regular basis.
My answer for our team? — We picked up a stop gap as NT, but we need a young guy that can develop behind him for a year or 2 and come in as a domintae player. We are in DESPERATE need of an ILB that can stuff the run, call the defense, and rush the QB. Outside the NT an ILB is far and away the biggest need on BOTH sides of the ball. Safety doenst even make top 5.
NT, ILB, C (Weigmann is not the answer, and Nilswanger is a joke), RG, RT, OLB pass rusher opposite Hali, RB (a hukging beast of a HB/FB hybrid with young legs that can block in max protect and catch the ball), FREE SAFETY, TE (a blocker, not a pass catcher. Someone to play in max protect to cover Cassel’s ass), STRONG SAFETY, WR (a burner that can stretch the field), LG to train in behind Waters (The last thing I want to do is to wait until Waters has proven he is toast to address the need) - In that order of importance IMO.
All the young talent we can get will help us. I’m not saying that Berry cannot make us better. I’m just saying that we should be building our team with the idea of having dominate lines on BOTH sides of the ball LONG before we start futzing about on the edges.
If it were a perfect world……I’d be trading down out of the #5 pick as fast as i possibly could. I’d be willing to give up some value on the pick chart in order to gain more picks in such a deep draft. I’d want to drop down to the mid/mid late first round and go after McClain or Spoon, or McCoy, or Williams, or Iuplui and add another 2nd or 3rd rounder. In the second i’d go after NT/ILB/RT/RG (whatever we didnt get in the first. If we had 3 seconds I might take a talented OLB/RB/Safety at the bottom of the 2nd…or top of the 3rd. After that… it’s all about who the best available is…we have enough needs that we can use anyone.
Safety is just not a big enough prioority on a team who’s lines on both sides of the field fail to do the most basic parts of their job on a regular basis. — Stop the run and rush the passer,….. You have to stop the run. Block for you QB and open holes for your run game. Both of those are way more important than a safety
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed answer.
I agree we have a bunch of holes and trading down would be great if we could. Basically, I agree with 90% of what you said in this response. I’m just not as sold on McClain at #5 so I am willing to take a position that maybe is not one of the “essentials” for building a team in order to get talent worthy of the #5 slot. I feel like we played it safe in the draft last year and would like to see some real top 5 talent added to this team. You make a good case though and I won’t cry myself to sleep if we wald away from the draft with McClain. I will be pissed if we go with a LT.
Official Member of the "Draft Eric Berry" Fanclub
Mostly true.
I think that NT and SOLB is #1 priority. I think you find your run-stuffing field general in Mike Vrabel at SILB, when a pass-rushing SOLB (who’s also stout against the run) like Brandon Graham is installed. Smith gives KC some upgrade at NT, but you’d like someone more dominant, certainly. But I think even with Edwards in there, Vrabel behind him making the reads and flowing to the ball would clean up the middle, even with only Mike Brown to side him, because both are good at making the reads.
This doesn’t remove the need for better DBs – dominant DBs. Chiefs would be singing Lito Shepperd’s praises to the rooftops if he were in KC, but the Jets, who mostly seemed to get things right, last year, wanted a BETTER coverage back, and wasted no time signing Antonio Cromartie (which some question). Dominant DBs can be proven in the NFL, and become FA targets or they can be found in the draft. Elite DBs are tough to find in the draft, and any time one falls to you, you HAVE to give it a looooooonnnnnnnggggg hard look, at the very least.
And all that stuff about Vrabel ‘n’ Brown? I’m not against an upgrade at LB, and I do think Brown’s lack of speed is a liability whenever the QB stays upright for more than 3 seconds, but I think you do about as much good in the draft in the 3rd or even 4th at LB as you do in the 1st. At LB I want SMART, TOUGH, and reasonably fast and quick. But you don’t need to go 1st-round to fill your bottom-line needs.
This whole "league is turning into a pass first league"
is cart-before-the-horse stuff. Nothing’s changed, really, other than the LONG-term trend of entering DBs in the draft being generally incapable of covering entering WRs. Offenses have the mismatches on the perimeter all day long, so they throw the ball.
Few teams have gone all-out to find the very BEST DBs, and even some of the ones who HAVE, mostly compare them to other DBs, rather than the WRs they will face in the NFL.
no mention of J. Page?
You may get your wish for an OL at 5 (if Berry is not there) – not optimal, given Albert’s development/and deep draft, but a safe 2nd option.
But there’s no way we’re takin a DT that high. Suh/McCoy are NOT the type of NTs Crennel uses; we can fill that need in later rounds. And if we reached and took Dan Williams @ 5 – I would absolutely cry.
Official Member of the "Draft Eric Berry" Fanclub
...you had me at Berry!
by chiefsfan62 on Mar 13, 2010 11:38 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Is Berry part of the "right 53"
I’m not really a fan of “the right 53” per se, I believe the the 53 should be the best players they can aquire. But is Berry’s character going to be a problem with Pioli? The guy is cocky. Don’t get me wrong I wouldn’t be dissapointed if the Chiefs selected Berry. He is the best safety prospect in some time, and if you don’t believe me just ask Eric Berry. I see some of the same qualities in Berry that I saw in Pollard…loud mouthed and arrogant. I’m not sure this is the type of player Pioli would draft 5th overall.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Mar 13, 2010 11:57 AM CST reply actions
Is you opinion of him based on the interview from the combine?
I really haven’t heard much that could be perceived as cocky aside from that interview. I’ll say that if that was the only or one of the few items you had to build your opinion, then I can see where you would think that. There are quite a few statements from teammates and other that describe him as a good guy. He was selected captain as a sophomore by his teammates. Give me a few, i’ll try to find a link to some of that info.
Member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
by jakethesnake27 on Mar 13, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Re: combine interview
Yeah this is pretty much the only time I’ve heard the kid speak. I suppose it’s not fair to call him “loud mouthed and arrogant” based on one interview. It got me thinking and I’ve listened to a couple other interviews and he didn’t come off as cocky, but certainly confident. (which I have no problem with) Perhaps I jumped to conclusions about his character…but after hearing his combine interview I just thought “is this the type of player Pioli or Haley is going to want on the team?”
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Mar 13, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
I understand that
the headline that folowed that interview was “Berry says he will be #1 pick” and that interview has alot of swagger to it. There was a paticular article that had some statements from a few of his teammates that I am having trouble finding. I’ll see if I can’t turn it up and paste in the link.
Member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
by jakethesnake27 on Mar 13, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
That interview from the combine
reads to me more of swagger than cockyness. Which is something our team as a whole is missing. We don’t really have any players that will get everyone else fired up on important downs, or stops.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 13, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
+14
Swagger is the best word I could come up with, but that’s what I think it is.
Member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
by jakethesnake27 on Mar 13, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
He comes off knowing he is a good player
Knowing he leaves it out on the field, and has stated his case. He knows he is valuable and can play corner or either safety position. Picking Berry(If no trade is available) would allow us to do a lot more on defense in terms of presnap looks, and blitzs.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 13, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly, BAMF.
A 6-foot, 200-lb DB who can COVER and has ball skills. Not just a 6-foot, 200 lb DB who can run fast and hit hard. And not just a 5-and-a-half-foot DB with cover skills.
Well put hmills
The guy is the complete package, that’s why he is a top 5 pick, not Earl Thomas. Berry is the best safety in this class, the best DB above Haden.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 14, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Mayock would disagree with us, but he's evaluating the safeties as safeties
and not factoring in the 1-on-1 cover skills – the crossover to corner (even if on a limited basis).
Cocky players just put a bullseye on their chest
But if they can back it up….
1. Are they an upgrade over what we already have?
2. Do they have high football IQ?
3. Can they make a difference from Day 1?
4. Do they have a history of leadership?
5. Sign him up.
KCFAN10 ... you forgot the only obvious poll option ...
see, you didn’t include the RIGHT choice in your poll, which would have been …
__ Trust Pioli, Haley, Weis, Crennel and the Scouting Department to Figure It Out
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Our discussions don't matter
I wasn’t ever planning on making any decisions for the franchise based on this conversation. So even though I sparked this thread, I am still going to trust them to do their job.
Bleeding Red & Gold
The Chiefs will know plenty about Berry from the workouts he’s been doing with Brandon Flowers. So far, all the comments from Flowers are positive and Berry seems to really like Flowers.
They will be our Laverne and Shirley.
Doing it our way
Member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
by jakethesnake27 on Mar 13, 2010 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
+14
I heard Berry’s interview from the Combine. I loved it!
A very confident young man, not un-like Flowers.
Can anyone say ‘Coverage Sack’?
Official Member of the "Draft Eric Berry" Fanclub
...you had me at Berry!
by chiefsfan62 on Mar 13, 2010 3:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
There is no down side to this guy.
Here is a section of his scouting report from New Era Scouting:
“Just about everything about Berry is impressive — and that’s not even including his pure football skills. He was a captain of the Tennessee team and regarded as having great character. Unlike most football players who take easy majors, Berry studied dentistry and interned at a Georgia dentist office.
Berry is known as an excellent teammate who even played on special teams as a junior. He was moved around a lot during his junior season, which cause his interception totals to drop, but Berry didn’t complain.
Playing in defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin’s defense, Berry’s football intelligence only improved as a junior. He now has a skillset and intelligence base that should help him start immediately in the NFL. Clearly a proven pass defender entering 2009, Berry is now a premier all-around safety.
Berry is certainly a top 10 pick, and whatever team drafts him will get a versatile defender. Berry is certainly good enough to start at strong safety and be the next Ed Reed. Or a team could move him to cornerback and he’s good enough to be the next Darrelle Revis."
Here’s the link if you want to check out the whole thing:
link
Official Member of the "Draft Eric Berry" Fanclub
by KCporkchop on Mar 13, 2010 4:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Are we really still having talks that include bernard Pollard???
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
That's how we do it in Fort Wayne! lol
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
by Chiefsfan85 on Mar 14, 2010 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/4/19/844616/chiefs-in-love-with-lsus-tyson
Remember this thread from last year. When Mike Lombardi talks the Chiefs, I listen because he’s the one media guy that seems to have an ear in Pioli’s camp. Last year, he was the 1st one who had us taking T-Jax in a mock. This year, he’s one of the early national guys that have gotten away from the ridiculous pick of a LT, and has us taking Berry. I believe that’s who Pioli is targeting. Unlike T-Jax, there’s a chance Berry won’t be there, so a plan B might be needed, but I’m pretty confident it would not be a LT.
I can dig it
I actually like Lombardi. He’s about the only NFL media member that I have ANY respect for at all.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Hi all I am a niners fan and just here to talk about E Berry.
I would love to have him and I would trade both of our first round picks for him. It’s astonishing that a lot of your fans would use the pick on him, with so many holes on the team. Why take Berry if you can land Bryant and Williams, or ,,,,,,,,,
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
because the chances of KC landing two first round picks for the number 5 pick is slim to none.
if that deal was actually offered, 99.9% percent of the fans here (including me) would take it in a nano second and i’m pretty positive Scott Pioli would too. but, let’s be real, the niners won’t offer that deal, stupid doesn’t creep over from oakland to the other side of the bay that often.
LMFAO
I would let Berry go to trade down for 2 first rounders.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Mar 14, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course it would be our two firsts for your pick in the first and 2nd and 4th, not just two firsts.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
I mean 49ers give up two firsts and chiefs give up #5, #37 and a 4th, maybe third.
Equation= 1,2,2,3,3 is a lot better than 1,1,2,3 in a deep draft, especially when your 1 nets you E berry.
Alex Smith is not a bust, he is a product of poor management and coaching.
for that I would say we'll take berry
that trade lost its appeal that we could fill more needs when you started asking for 3-4 picks for your 2. We’ll get a starter out of #5, #36, #51, and that third
Member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
by jakethesnake27 on Mar 15, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
and then you can get taylor mays
…he’s fast
Member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
by jakethesnake27 on Mar 15, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
and nice pic
Member of the Eric Berry Fan Club
by jakethesnake27 on Mar 15, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I love the way you can
never predict which post is gonna spark a great discussion. Kudos to those who participated inthis thread. Great stuff people!
honestly, I think berry is a great possibility, but I would say if Berry is possible, so is Earl Thomas...
Of course…if we pick one over the other…the comparisons between the two, and even maybe mays, will be interesting to say the least.
Scott Pioli will find a way to make NT the biggest offseason priority.
KC Will Trade Derrick Johnson
Berry
Wouldn’t mind berry at 5….then maybe a de/linebacker like Spikes at 2a and OG at 2b.


























