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Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

Nose Tackle of the Future

We signed NT Shaun Smith today.

I think it's a great acquisition to our number 1 position of need. It sounds as if the intelligent, well-researched ultra-fans on AP see him as a reserve/rotation player more than a starter. Thinking back on the play of Ron Edwards this season I think he at least has the possibility of starting.

Regardless of whether or not he plays the first snap, Shaun Smith is old enough that we need to draft the NT of the future in the 2010 NFL Draft.

After the jump we'll examine the personnel options for the lynch-pin of our 3-4 defense.

Star-divide

The nice thing about picking up Shaun Smith is that it frees up Pioli to draft based on VALUE as opposed to having to reach to fill huge need (Tyson Jackson). The NT Pioli drafts is now allowed to be the guy with the biggest upside, not the guy who will be the best starter from day 1.

I used to have a major man-crush on Terrence Cody at 2a. Because I thought he could slim down and start from day 1. But with the addition of SS, Pioli can look at his weight/strength/work ethic issues and decide to take a receiver or ILB instead.

So knowing that Pioli needs to invest a draft pick in 2010 on the NT of the future, who do you think best fits that bill?

I don't follow enough college football to have formed an opinion on any of these guys beyond Dan Williams and Terrence Cody. Who of these prospects strikes AP as being the future anchor of our D-Line?

Dan Williams, 6'2" 327, Tennessee

Terrence Cody, 6'4" 354, Alabama

Torrell Troup, 6'3" 314, Central Florida

Cam Thomas, 6'4" 330, North Carolina

Linval Joseph, 6'6" 322, East Carolina

Martin Tevaseu, 6'6"  329, UNLV

Al Woods, 6'4" 309, LSU

None of these players merit the use of a Top 5 pick. But what value do you assign to a future NT? Should we we spending one of the second rounders or gamble a 5th round pick knowing there will be time to coach and condition a player like Thomas or Troup?

I'd love to know AP's opinion on how our NT needs have changed since signing Shaun Smith.

Poll
What pick should Pioli use on a NT in the 2010 Draft?
1st round, after we trade down.
13 votes
2a
89 votes
2b
116 votes
3rd round
104 votes
4th round
39 votes
5th round
15 votes
compensatory if we get one
1 votes
None: we'll get a NT by trade, UDFA or draft one in 2011
12 votes

389 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 58 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Torrell Troup 3rd Round for me

I’m basing this soley off of Crennell’s comments on the kid.

by TonyG88 on Mar 10, 2010 1:50 PM CST reply actions  

i like troup as well… but i think he will go lower than that… unless every 3-4 team needs a nose… then we may have to get him in the 3rd…

mid free agency draft wish 1.4:
1. eric berry fs
2. sergio kindle olb
2. brandon spikes ilb
3. jd walton oc
4. myron rolle ss
5. jacoby ford wr
5. torell troup nt
5. dorin dickerson te

by Abyssmal on Mar 10, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Williams will probably be gone mid-late 1st

Cody is an enigma as of right now, Troup is a little lighter than the rest of the pack…I am starting to like Cam Thomas more and more, plus he can probably be had with 2b or 3rd round, depending on how his stock fluctuates between now and draft day.

8-8 could win win the west in 2010
Twitter! @phillipbrown

by Scalper7 on Mar 10, 2010 1:55 PM CST reply actions  

I like Cam Thomas at 3 as well...

But would ultimately prefer Cody at 2a. Of course our staff will have a greater insight, but it’s always fun to speculate.

by Ray Brown on Mar 10, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

and what about the UCLA guy at 2a?

Haven’t heard much about him, which always makes me think that teams covet him.

by Ray Brown on Mar 10, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Price will go in the first round

and, I’m not sold on him as a NT

he looks like Dorsey

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* keep Albert at LT, upgrade the positions that NEED upgrading.C, RG, NT, S, LB

by stagdsp on Mar 10, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

interesting post ... but honestly, if Pioli & Co took Williams at #5 I wouldn't argue

it’s a major position in the 3-4 … for us it’s 9still) a major need … Shaun Smith is a stopgap signing with a checkered past, he’s not the long-term solution …

as Jon Yoon pointed out this morning: the scouts have info about these guys that we, the fans, don’t have … between those scouts and Crennel and Haley and Pioli, they decide who to take and when and what position to fill and when, value and etc, based on far more info than we’ll ever have available …

so yeah, if they take Williams at #5 I’m not about to argue with it

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 1:56 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

I will defer to Pioli and his scouts on all draft matters. I personally would like to see us trade down from the #5 and be able to snag someone like Dan Williams in the middle of the first for a little less money, so that we don’t have the GDP of a large south american country invested in three top 5 D-Line draft picks

For justice we must go to Don Pioli

by Sudden on Mar 10, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I see williams as more of a DE in the 3-4

I think if he falls to NE he’ll go there as a DE, but to me it makes more sense to move over to a 4-3 right now, with more and more teams going to the 3-4

by mcclanahanman on Mar 10, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

That's why I'm back 'n' forth on Williams.

I’m not certain he’s not just a very good 4-3 DT prospect, who, when playing at his “Kansas City weight,” will come in at 300 lbs, and not really be fleet enough in space to play DE, and be too small for NT. If he scouts as the NT everyone seems to think he is, NE might take him, but with Ron Brace from the 1st in ‘09 and Wilfork signed to a long-term deal, I’m not so sure NE does that. But with Williams in hand, trades for Wilfork might be in the cards. One thing for sure, in my mind, is Williams has NFL quickness off the ball and knows how to use his hands.

I kinda feel that 330 would be Cody’s “KC weight,” after an offseason (maybe 2) with Haley’s trainers. I think they pick players who are at the proper weight for the position when they’re at the proper weight for their frame. I don’t see them beefing people up beyond what they think their bodies can handle, or slimming them down too much, either. For instance, McBride’s target weight for LB was 260, but I don’t think he ever got down below 270, and that’s probably his ideal playing weight, if there’s a team that could use a smart 270-pounder with average-to-good feet. (Myself, I’d probably just line him up outside of T-Jax and tell him to run over the TE every play – take that pesky TE outta the pattern before his wheels leave the tarmac).

by hmills110 on Mar 14, 2010 12:53 AM CST up reply actions  

And....

It’s not out of the realm of possibility.

Remember we reached for Jackson because Pioli thought he was the best fit to the 3-4 transition. Dan Williams could very well be our first pick. Granted, I think we have a good chance of trading out of the #5 spot because of the SEA, CLE and BUF QB situation. As I said elsewhere, drafting Williams at 7th or 9th and getting an extra 3rd or 4th rounder would be a good move, IMO.

My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:

"Shut the f--- up."- Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"- Todd Haley

by Red N Gold Beast on Mar 10, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

agreed

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Good post

This does change our draft landscape a bit. Agreed that Cody 2a might not necessarily be in the cards at this point although I’d still be happy to see us take him. I’d be happy with Troup at 2b or 3. But if you really want the upside guy, look at Linval Joseph in the later rounds. May be a little raw, but I love his potential.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Mar 10, 2010 2:21 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 10, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I voted in the first after a trade...

Wishfull thinking, but if Pioli believes theres a NT worth taking somewhere in the middle of the first and we are able to make that trade happen I’d be all for it.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Mar 10, 2010 2:46 PM CST reply actions  

I'm liking Troup or Thomas between picks 2b and 3.

I wouldn’t mind having Cody, but Pouncey might be sitting at our 2a pick, and C/G are some key spots that need addressed. Cody probably won’t make it to our 2b pick.

The nice thing now is that with the Smith signing we have breathing room. NT can slide back a little since the NT talent in this draft isn’t anything to ooh and aah over. Smith could probably start and do decently until we get our absolute beast NT.

My sentiments are likely to be summed up with one of these 2 quotes:

"Shut the f--- up."- Matt Cassel
"WHAT THE F---?!?!"- Todd Haley

by Red N Gold Beast on Mar 10, 2010 2:48 PM CST reply actions  

+1...If Pouncey is there take him at 2A.

If not I would take Walton at 2B and NT at 3. That was my vote for 3rd round.

by Helmets on Mar 10, 2010 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree, Troup or Thomas

Whomever is available at 3, I don’t see Mnt. Cody falling to our 2b, and definately not to 3, but I’d be fine with Cam Thomas at 3 for certain…

by KCFanatic on Mar 11, 2010 9:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Wiegmann and Smith signings aren't Earth-shattering, BUT they give KC more flexibility and depth, at worst.

Still might go C or NT at any point, but no absolute need to throw a rookie to the wolves from Day 1, either. And not as much need to reach in the early rounds, when there might be more certain contributors in other position groups. For instance, without the Berry pick, I think KC could find a better safety than any on the roster right now, with the 2a or 2b pick. With Leggett, Washington, and Morgan in the mix, KC has a lot of athletes. I see little wrong with adding more athletes, developing EVERYbody and letting the better PLAYERS get the minutes.

I like these two signings and the patience Pioli has shown so far, upgrading modestly across the board. This helps playmakers emerge from players KC already has, and helps ensure that those who are added in the draft are coming into a good situation.

by hmills110 on Mar 14, 2010 1:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Sure fire 5 starters

Berry, Tate, Walton, Joseph, and Micah Johnson, that 5 good players and starters IMO.

by CPT.Caveman on Mar 10, 2010 3:22 PM CST reply actions  

Best of all worlds

Trade down take Williams NT in 1st, then Pouncey, but I don’t have any idea who would want to trade with us so hard to figure out what other picks we would have available. If we trade down too much maybe we get their 1st round this year and next… think Pioli would do this just to fill a few more holes and give us a lift for next years draft.

by sgthall on Mar 10, 2010 4:27 PM CST reply actions  

Most trade-down scenarios appear advantageous to me, also.

Issue is whether you’re sold on Williams as NT-of-the-future for the Chiefs.

by hmills110 on Mar 14, 2010 1:41 AM CST up reply actions  

why do some people here

refer to tyson jackson as a reach when last year on most mocks and others state that he was a legit top 10 pick? and say you trust in whatever pioli decides is the correct pick,even if we select dan williams with the 5th overall,or to me even in a trade down to anywhere still in the top 10 would be a bigger reach picking williams then jackson was at 3 overall last year. i respect everyones comments but i do not understand why so many feel jackson was such a reach when at the time we selected him last year most seemed to like the pick.just curious

by chiefs72 on Mar 10, 2010 5:51 PM CST reply actions  

Jackson was only a marginal "reach"

He was rated between 8th and 14th, from what I remember.

But, he WAS the BEST player at a HUGE position of need.

Williams is the highest rated NT, and is now showing up in the 15th overall ranking or so.

My feeling is that… IF Pioli feels it’s “his guy” and that he won’t be there when KC gets to pick again… he can and will reach to get him

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* keep Albert at LT, upgrade the positions that NEED upgrading.C, RG, NT, S, LB

by stagdsp on Mar 10, 2010 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

And, apparently to KC, Ron Brace wasn't as great a value as Jackson, either, even though

the NT position is key to the whole thing working. This says to me that KC believed in Jackson long-term more than any NT prospect. They may not have that strong a belief in any of THIS year’s NTs, either. And to my eye, the way Jackson plays and moves, they got it right. TOtally different d-line paradigm, and I can think of no more unselfish and no more focused player to bring that whole philosophy to KC.

Chiefs72: If Jackson is a long-term solution at LDE and is a dominant force for many years, then where he was picked in the 1st round is immaterial. Same would go for Williams or Cody, if they can get the job done. You can debate whether it was a reach until the cows come home, but the simple fact is if that position is nailed down, I’ll have a lot more patience for the “We need a better LB” talk.

The main thing is not to strike gold, but to circumvent disaster with those high picks. You WANT to strike it rich, but you can’t COUNT on it. You’re not looking for a HOFer, but you don’t want to have to go back to the well at the same position for years to come.

by hmills110 on Mar 14, 2010 1:53 AM CST up reply actions  

i didnt know what to vote for.

well i definitly dont think it should be in rd 1. round 2 maybe… but If its the NT of the future then i think we should draft other positions of high need first like o line

You're a goddamn quarterback! You know what that means? It's the top spot, kid. It's the guy who takes the fall. It's the guy everybody's looking at first - the leader of a team - who will support you when they understand you. Who will break their ribs and their noses and their necks for you, because they believe. 'Cause you make them believe. That's a quarterback.
--- Any given sunday

Cassel can lead us.

by BEEf_CHIEF on Mar 10, 2010 5:59 PM CST reply actions  

wouldn't you say if it's the NT of the future and consistent pro bowler...

you’d be willing to use a 1st for him rather than using a guy of lesser talent for the next ten years, that’s if he’s not cut after two years like most low rounders are?

by E.C. on Mar 10, 2010 6:32 PM CST up reply actions  

The issue is your big board and your core assessment of talent.

If the player can get the job done, it ain’t a reach. If he can’t, he’s a waste of a pick that could’ve done you some good elsewhere, and you could’ve done as well or better with journeyman signings, like Shaun Smith and Ron Edwards.

For all I know, that might be how KC is lookin’ at things and, against all MY instincts, think they do the team more good in the draft by chasing LBs or WRs or … all day long. All depends on the talent tiers in the various position groups…

by hmills110 on Mar 14, 2010 1:58 AM CST up reply actions  

personally i'd be happy with williams at 5 if pioli and the coaches thought he was the best player for us

if we, as most of us seem to, say that NT is the biggest pos of need and that if we don’t get somebody then our D will be as terrible as last year, then why would you not take a guy with your highest pick? i’m not sure why everyone is so high on Cody and Troupe and the others, but hardly mentions Williams, who is rated as the best NT available. i do see the whole reach point and those other guys being available when we pick later

by E.C. on Mar 10, 2010 6:40 PM CST reply actions  

No love for Dan Williams

A lot of us saw him play the Chick-Fil-A Bowl where he got owned by VT guard Sergio Render.

by Aesthetist on Mar 11, 2010 9:10 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

yep... thus, why I like Render instead of Williams!

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* keep Albert at LT, upgrade the positions that NEED upgrading.C, RG, NT, S, LB

by stagdsp on Mar 11, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

If I hear taking a NT in the first round

one more time I am never coming back to AP until after the draft… That is the most insane idea I have heard so far for this specific draft. ANY NT in this draft at #5 or even the 1st round to me would be a reach that I am not willing to “stretch” for… Just my opinion …

Winning isnt a matter of life and death, its more important than that.

by Pollard49 on Mar 10, 2010 7:48 PM CST reply actions  

unless its like under 25th pick...

Winning isnt a matter of life and death, its more important than that.

by Pollard49 on Mar 10, 2010 7:49 PM CST up reply actions  

you could

become a Houston fan

;-)

You sometimes learn something everyday.

"We couldn't beat the Chiefs, but we damn near killed their horse."
-- Madden

by kabrink on Mar 10, 2010 8:26 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Give props to Edwards..

Ron has done a yeomans job for 4 years here. Quite a few are up his butt and I think it’s unwarranted.
Our offense couldn’t stay on the field, he’s not a youngster anymore and thats a damn tough job. Cut the man some slack, eh?

by skunk420 on Mar 10, 2010 8:11 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

Edwards has survived the transition. Makes you wonder if we ARE going to draft another NT.
IMO it would be smart to do it. But we could grab one of the East Carolina boys. Maybe we should keep in contact with them as UDFA.

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Mar 10, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree up the line.

Focus on the top two prospects may be misplaced, with NONE of the current crop worthy of 1st-or-2nd-round consideration. Heck, the idea of bringing Gerard Warren in and just going with Warren, Smith and Edwards for a year doesn’t sound too far-fetched, either. Pick up one of those kids from the Southeast, and see if he’ll develop, with an eye to churning the roster at the nose and maybe drafting Powe or someone like him in 2011.

I know that’s a ridonkulous number of NTs to carry…

by hmills110 on Mar 14, 2010 3:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Ladies and Gentlemen! I present you with ... (drum roll, please) ... your NT of the Future

… it may, however, be a few years …

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 9:05 PM CST reply actions  

If we have a serviceable NT for this year

why do we absolutely have to take one this year. Will there be none coming out of college ever again?

by RamX21 on Mar 10, 2010 10:07 PM CST reply actions  

Define serviceable

Shaun Smith is an old defensive lineman and only one reaggravated back injury away from retirement. Knowing that it takes D-Linemen 2-3 years to develop, why not have the next NT in line getting conditioned, coached and ready to play?

by Aesthetist on Mar 11, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

serviceable: (adj) in repair shop often; needs service regularly; not in perfect working condition

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 11, 2010 9:18 AM CST up reply actions  

serviceable [ˈsɜːvɪsəbəl]
adj
1. capable of or ready for service; usable
2. capable of giving good service; durable
3. Archaic diligent in service
serviceability , serviceableness n
serviceably adv

by RamX21 on Mar 11, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions  

because everyone is high on cody this year and i don’t see what the hype is all about, there is 2 way more impressive NT’s coming out next year in. Jerrell Powe and Phil Taylor, we wont have as many holes to fill and we can def snag one of them

by RamX21 on Mar 11, 2010 8:37 PM CST up reply actions  

There's reason to think that Cody could be a prototype player, who sets a new standard of play at the position.

He could just as easily be on the wrong side of the square-cube law and never be quick enough to play in the NFL, or take years before he can be effective. One also worries about weight control – something with which KC staff have no patience.

Depending on how you scout the current crop, going high this year might not be wise at all.

by hmills110 on Mar 14, 2010 3:13 AM CST up reply actions  

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