History Defines the Path
From the FanPosts -Joel
So here we are, on the eve of the Superbowl. Only 1 more day until the 2010 NFL offseason officially begins. Ok, I know that March 5th starts the new league year, but I’m speaking from a fan perspective. After the final game has ended, the last buffalo wing has been dipped, the pizza boxes go empty, and the beer cooler is drained (or in my case: 150 homemade hand rolled eggrolls, a 15lb whole smoked pork shoulder, 4 bottles of small batch bourbon, and a few ‘illegal’ cigars are smoked) the 2009 season will be all wrapped up.
It’s time again to start looking ahead to what our beloved Chiefs should be focusing on doing in the offseason to turn our team around. In my opinion, the best way to do that is to look back to the past. A lot of different people have a lot of different ideas about what the Chiefs NEED headed into 2010. I’ve decided to let the past answer that question for me, and take its advice in defining the path for the offseason.
As is my usual fashion I’m about to bury you in words and paragraphs of opinion and data, and then I’ll draw my conclusions from what I present. However, this post will be historical in that it will be the first time (and maybe the last because I've now tried to put a table on AP) that I’ll ever try to toss in tables, charts and a few pictures to lighten the load on those of you that actually bother to read what I write before commenting.
Without further ado (I know. Too late, right?) We begin with a table of information:
note: green lines denote playoff years
This table represents the modern era of the Chiefs with some basic numbers that we may be able to use to define the path of the offseason. I choose to limit the data to wins, points, runs, passes, sacks and giveaways because I’m fairly lazy realized how much work was ahead of me and so after I made the initial spread sheet I crossed off the other 5 categories that I had penciled in to analyze (Hey, I may be lazy, but at least I’m honest). It’s really not all that useful because it’s not arranged in a way that is easy to read without hunting through the data. However, it’s where I started, so I thought I should allow you a look at the unedited data. If you are a stat hound I’d suggest going to http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan.htm like I did. There is enough on that site to keep you sniffing hydrants and licking yourself to last the entire offseason.
via Photobucket.com
First off, let’s rearrange that data based on winning % (and another factor I like to call ‘Vermeil is overrated’). I want to look at the data from a winning perspective because I’m tired of having to eat one of these every damn football season while watching my Chiefs:
via Photobucket.com
Things to note from an initial glance:
- Marty Schottenheimer is a god among coaches
- For all the hype, Vermeil has as many losing seasons as winning ones (2) and only an 8.8 win average per season to Marty's 10.1
- Edwards rode Vermeil's team right into the ground
- Ganz, no matter how much you hate him, put a better team on the field than Edwards. (Choke on that Herm lovers!)
By looking at the table alone it should jump out at you that give away/take away is huge. There is the occational statistical anomaly (as is expected in any sample of data) but the numbers don't lie. Successful Chiefs teams take away the football, and don't give it back. Haley was positive in '09 (+1), but just barely. The team must do a better job than they did last year.
Points Scored: All over the board. Winning seasons show between 318-484 points, but there are 5 of the 10 losing/.500 seasons that also match that mark. Scoring a lot of points alnoe has no direct correlation to winning seasons. That doesn't mean the Chiefs don't need to be able to score. It just means that 21 points a game is enough to win. We don't need 45, and we don't win more games per season when we score 45.
Points Allowed: Shows that the Chiefs have never allowed more than 332 points in any winning season. They also held opponenet to less than 332 points only once in any losing season (Vermeil 2001). There appears to be a direct correlation here.
- The Chiefs NEED to hold opponents to under 332 total points for the season (20.75 p/gm)
Passing Yards: From 2792-3981 in winning years, and from 2617-4429 in losing years. There is simply too much crossover to apply any direct correlation from passing yards to wins. (Interesting note: The Chiefs have never had a winning season with +4000 passing yards. Only 1 of the 3 +4000 passing yard seasons belongs to Vermeil. The other 2 were Edwards and Cunningham's teams)
Passing Yards Allowed: Again, no direct correlations to winning. the data is simply too muddied.
Pass Attempts AND Run Attempts: We'll handle these together. There is no magic number of times the Chiefs have run or passed the ball to end up a winner.
Run Yards: 1532-2382 in winning years, and 1248-2378 in losing years. Again, no magic number of yards.
Run Yards Allowed: Only 2 of 13 winning seasons have ever had opponents run for more than 1800 yards against the Chiefs. One of those 2 years resulted in the Chiefs squeaking into a winning season at 9-7, and the other the Chiefs had a +19 turnover differential. The Chiefs have never held opponents to under 1800 yards in any losing season. I call that a direct correlation.
- The Chiefs NEED to stop the run and hold opponents to under 1800 yards (112.5 p/gm)
Total Yards: Again we see no direct correlation to a winning season.
Total Yards Allowed: There seems to be a threshold somewhere near 5200 yards allowed, but again the data is too muddy to draw any direct correlation to winning.
Sacks: There are some things to look at later, but nothing direct.
Sacks Allowed: The lower the better, but nothing concrete.
On second thought, that looks pretty direct and concrete
Give Away/Take Away: Only once in any winning season was this ever a negative (8-7 season), and only twice more was it ever below +5 (both in 9-7 seasons). It's never been above +5 in any losing season. That's not perfect correlation, but with 9-7 and 8-7 seasons all being only 1 loss away from not qualifying as a winning season I'm still inclined to call this a direct correlation. Moreover, the further you look up the table the more apparent it becomes. 9 of the remaing 10 winning seasons had double digit positive turnover differentials. And 8 of the 9 losing seasons came in at less than a +4.
- The Chiefs NEED a +5 or better turnover differential
Some people just don't like tables or spreadsheets. They don't bother to read them or study the numbers. They would prefer that the conclusion just be presented to them in words. Better yet, they would like it presented as an easy to read, easy to understand pie chart. I'm not one of those people, but I have them in mind as readers while I post. Here is the simplest pie chart I could find:
Ok, now that the pie chart is out of the way, settle in while we look at yet another table that digs a bit deeper into the stats. It may be possible to reveal more NEEDS by setting up some ratios between positive and negative aspects of the same statistics that we used in the earlier tables.
Glancing over a couple of things we see what we expect to see. Win/Loss is obvious, and when you outscore your opponents you win more games. It also appears that we haven't had too many seasons where big blowouts have affected the numbers very much. The years with the highest Points Scored/Points Allowed ratios account for the most wins. As the number goes down, so do the wins. The things of note in the data are the 2 Vermeil years hovering around a 1 Win/Loss ratio.
The Chiefs had a couple of Vermeil years where they outscored their opponents and yet still managed to end up at .500 or worse. This should tell you that although they won games by larger margins, they still lost more or an equal number of games than they won. This would support the earlier NEED theory that scoring a lot of points (467 and 483 in those 2 seasons - Wow, that is a lot) does not lead to winning more games by itself. Instead, playing better defense and keeping your opponent from scoring (399 and 435 in those same years) puts you in position to win. In fact, looking back at the 2003 Vermeil led Chiefs (13-3 year) we can see that the defense held opponents to just 332 points on the season. It's not that the Chiefs scored 484 that made them winners (They scored 467 and 483 in '02 and '04 but finished .500 or less). Rather, it was not giving up 333+ points on the year.
The best teams on the table got there not by inflating the normal totals for points scored, but instead by stopping their opponents from matching scoring. Herm Edwards actually had it right when he said something like (paraphrasing here because I can't find the exact quote)
"We only need to score 1 more point than the other guy to win."
He was not trying to educate us on the definition of the word 'win'. He was attempting to highlight the notion that if you stop the opponent from scoring you only need 1 point to win the game. The other guys cannot possibly beat you if they do not score.
Looking to the Runs Attempts/Pass Attempts column, a quick glance is all you need to understand that you have to play a balanced game in order to end up a winner. When you start throwing significantly more than you run it, your success level goes down. Yes, I'm aware that when our Chiefs are always playing from behind they are forced to pass the ball, and that those passes affect the numbers. But that still does not change the direct correlation
- The Chiefs NEED to have a balanced offense
Run Yards/Run Yards Allowed: Other than the '03 and '92 seasons, this whole category seems to scream at me. It screams so loud that I'm calling it a direct correlation without even bothering to explain myself. Just look for yourself.
- The Chiefs NEED to run for more yards than they allow their opponents
Sacks/Sacks Allowed: Looking at the top and the bottom of this category tells all. When the Chiefs allow more sacks than they force, they lose games.
Looking deeper into the data reveals that although turnovers can come from picks, fumbles, and strips in the open field, there is also a strong link between Sack/Sack Allowed ratio and the turnover differential. Meaning, when the Chiefs sack the opponent more than they get sacked they also end up with more turnovers comming their way. Without further data (I wonder where it could have gone) I cannot tell you if those turnovers came from QB fumbles directly related to strip/sacks, or if they were INT's related to QB pressure, or if they happened further down the field away from the QB. Just off the cuff I would venture to guess that the increased pressure from sacks has caused INT's or mistakes by a frustrated QB. No matter which way it really happens, we are still left with the following:
- The Chiefs NEED to end the season with more sacks than they allow
Some day in the future when someone blogs or tells you what the Chiefs NEED in order to defend their mock draft or FA wish list, just remember to ask them to prove it before you swallow whatever they say next. Here comes the offseason. Now I know what the NEEDS are as well as the draft order and the available FA's that may be on the market. So all we have to do is apply our NEEDS to the available talent.
NEEDS review:
- The Chiefs NEED to hold opponents to under 332 total points for the season (20.75 per game)
- The Chiefs NEED to stop the run and hold opponents to under 1800 yards (112.5 per game)
- The Chiefs NEED a +5 or better turnover differential
- The Chiefs NEED to have a balanced offense
- The Chiefs NEED to run the ball for more yards than they allow the opponent to run on them
- The Chiefs NEED to end with more sacks than they allow
I was planning a whole 'nother section here, but I decided it would be too long, even for me. I'll judge response to this before finishing up another post titled 'The Path Defines the Offseason' as a follow up piece. If this generates enough response/discussion that I believe anyone is actually interested in my opinion I might post it.
Thanks for reading, and as always: Tear this post up in the comments below.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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excellent read
I took the time and so should you.. This should be front paged first thing in the AM.. Rec’d anyway
KRRRAKATAWAA
Thanks Nanz
the tables were a real PITA. I had the post done and transfered from word by 10:30pm. It took until almost 3 am to figue out how to get the tables in.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Excellent work TC.
And you snuck in a little Frank Gansz love…well played.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Feb 7, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
PIE
I enjoyed this but the pie . Now i have a slice of pie that i have to eat
CHIEFS fan 4 life
by Charles # 1 chiefs fan on Feb 7, 2010 5:49 AM CST reply actions
Mmmmm Pie!
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
But seriously
Good to see some analysis of what the better KC teams had in common compared to those that missed out on the playoffs
Nice post TC!
All of those stats relate to playing hard nosed, smash mouth football. Herms country club practices did not prepare the team to be tough enough. I think Coach Haley will develop the toughness this team needs to be dominant in our division and the league. Rec’d!
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain
Dude! Your post are such a treat!
This is soo good! It really confirms my thoughts about defense first. It really backs up my man crush on Ro’ McClain. Stopping the run, creating TO, helping the overall efficiency of our defense.
Great stuff Texas!! Can’t wait until your next one!
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Feb 7, 2010 8:39 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Nice of you to say Matt
I’m glad you liked it.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Rec'd!
Excellent analytical effort. This helps to prove that the D should get the nod in order of importance, but only ever so slightly. I agree with Matt that we should be looking at McClain and if he is there with our first pick (where ever that might end up being) we should nab him. I truthfully believe that he will have a ripple effect throughout the whole defense (well him and a solid NT).
Not to mention, with the Coaches we have on the D side with D-Line experience….front 7 is going to get a whole lot better this year.
Things of importance to me:
1)God
2)Family
3)Chiefs
4)Marine Corps
Good read.
I guess it shows you that when you win the little battles you generally win the overall big battle.
Yeah...but we beat the donkeys like a rented mule.
the overall big battle
a.k.a. the “war” : )
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 8, 2010 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
Very good
Look forward to the day when our offense and defense both rank above average , just as an example 10 or 12 we might win another Super Bowl. Balance!
gordymule
more columns
Texas Chief, this is a great post. As Gordy alludes to here, it would be cool to have two more columns that show the Def and Off rank in the NFL each year. But, this effort is more than good enough, so you are dismissed.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Always in motion is the future.
-- Yoda
I actually avoided Def and Off rankings on purpose.
I tried to keep all the stats relevent to only the Chiefs. Yards they gained, Yards they allowed etc…
I didn’t want to use data that relied on what other teams had done to draw my conclusions. However, I did end up cutting out some columns that broke down the turnovers into INT, QB Fumbles, RB Fumbles (forced and allowed). When I got about 1/2 way through my analysis I realized the post was going to be just too unruley unless I trimmed it down.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Great post
Loved the analysis, loved the pics, very well done. Rec’d.
Oh and I will second that we are going Rolando McClain with our pic as long as he doesn’t do something stupid. We can get Oline help later in the draft. Defense will turn this team around.
One more conclusion:
The Chiefs NEED to not have Greg Robinson as DC.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Always in motion is the future.
-- Yoda
Very nice post Texas. The charts are a bit tough for me to read at their current size. Very well done though.
Merlinnj
yeah, they didn't come out how I'd hoped. But I had to put them in anyway or else kill the whole post
SBN just does not have a very good tool for building tables. All of my tables were too wide to fit, and even after I did shrink them down and squeeze them in the formatting got all borked when I posted them. All the spacing went away and I was left with a giant paragraph of garbled crap.
After a LOT of trial and error the only solution I could find to even get the tables up there was:
1) Create tables in Excel
2) Copy and Paste them as objects into Word
3) Clipboard Define the objects to be pasted as Pictures
4) Use the Microsoft “Snip” tool to cut out a portion of my screen and save it as a picture file.
5) Upload that picture file to my photobucket account
6) Use the SBN tool to imbed pictures and link to my photobucket account.
If anyone knows a better way to get a fairly WIDE table of data into AP without completely screwing up all the spacing and coloring please let me know. My solution worked, but they are hard to read =(
Sorry for your headache, =)
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Good Lord!
That’s a lot of crap for a table. I could see them perfect on my iPhone…with the zoom feature I could just look at whatever and move it around. It may be different looking on a PC.
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Feb 7, 2010 1:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You CAN
click on the picture of the table. Which will take you to a larger image without the blur distortion. Just open another browser and leave the tables up while you read. At lesat you can follow along well, and you can read the table without too much eye strain.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
the way they handle tables is definitely not cool
you’d think with all the high-functioning stuff around here that putting tables in posts would be a cinch. apparently not.
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "In the game of chess you can never let your opponent see your pieces"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 8, 2010 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
Wow
Now that is what a good post is made of. Take note AP readers.
Research that is new and relevant.
Reads well (even if it takes a while)
Humor thrown in for relief.
Excellent read. I wish there was a Super Rec, because this is worthy of it.
I agree with your view that Vermeil is overrated and that Marty was the man. I would only argue slightly with the stance that Herm ran Vermeil’s team into the ground. Herm does deserve some blame but Vermeil and Carl’s aging roster had an equal hand in those bad years. That’s nit picking though and doesn’t really have anything to do with your conclusions, of which I totally agree.
Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"
Appreciate the props Chop
I’m a fan of your stuff too. All the nice comments to this post are giving me a warm fuzzy. Now if I can just get someone to pick a fight with me! =P
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
This is THE worst goddamn post EVAR
So terrible, in fact, that I read it twice.
FUCK YOU!
Rec’d.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius
I agree 100%
Looks like some jackoff 13 year old made those tables. I could do a better job using 2 sharp rocks and stone tablet.
And those pictures? Is that pie chart supposed to be funny. Someone ban this asshat. We don’t need him around here.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Great Post
I foud myself looking at these charts for a long time. The one thing that strikes me the most is the Give away/ Take away ratio. Under Marty, we were always known for the take aways. A big + number = post season.
Also the sacks versus the sacks allowed seemed pretty significant.
Man...
I can not wait to get an intemidating defense back in KC. People have been walking over us the last two years. Once we get that in place you know our home winning percentage is going to sky rocket alone.
Seriously good shit, Tex
No question that most of those NEEDS lie mostly with the defense, but all of our NEEDS seem to start in the trenches on both offense and defense. Improve on a few positions there and not only do we improve on a lot of last season’s numbers, but we also get a better idea of what we’ve got in all the positions behind them.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius
good stuff as usual
and i’m very glad someone here besides me thinks vermeil is overrated. i’ve made that case a few times on here and people just love the old man like he won 3 super bowls here. (translation: those people like offense more than wins)
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
2 winning season, 1 playoff berth, 0 play off wins, 2 losing seasons, 1 .500 year.
But there sure was a lot of offense. I’m just glad that the numbers didn’t show opposite of my personel beleifs. I would have had a hard time swallowing that bitter pill if they had.
Defense, Run the ball at least as many times as you pass it, Stop the run, get sacks, and take the ball away. – That’s just my kind of football.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Stop the run, limit the air yardage. Take the Ball away ALOT.
That’s a stout D. See below.
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 8, 2010 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Awesome stuff TC rec
looking forward to the conclussions applied
Now I know what the NEEDS are as well as the draft order and the available FA’s that may be on the market. So all we have to do is apply our NEEDS to the available talent.
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
looking forward to the CONCUSSIONS applied.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Always in motion is the future.
-- Yoda
I hope it's higher than concussions recieved.
Unfortunately Trent and Priest don’t help those numbers much.
How about knees shattered?
I NEED to let you know...
That I appreciate all of the effort you put into the analysis and presentation of KC’s recent coaching and statistical history. Excellent work (and it does read well, I’ve gone over it twice).
Just thought I’d pass along something real for once, instead of being smart-assed :)
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
Great analysis
And you spent a lot of time working hard to find a photo of Ryan Sims doing something good…that must have added a few extra hours.
Where's the stat for sacking the ref?
I see that DJ got at least one of those. It’s sad seeing him and Jared Allen in the same shot though.
Awesome job TC , Rec'd and Agree.
I did a similar post back in Dec arguing that if you analyzed our playoff bound years dating back to Marty’s reign there were some specific commonalities that our D had to reproduce to be solid.
But to paraphrase; under Marty – 7 our of 9 years we had double digit takeaways and 7 out of 9 years we were in the playoffs. And in Vermeil’s playoff appearance again we had double digit takeaways. So that’s part of it. The other side is to limit the total number of opponents yards gained to less than 320. Again going by the numbers (both from your tables and from pro-football-reference.com) during those years we made it to the playoffs, Marty’s teams limited opponents to less than 112yrd/g rushing and 229 yrd/g in the air (Vermeil let teams avg close to 60 yards/game more and currently we are allowing close to 80 yards/game more). More yards allowed = more opportunities for opposing teams to score = more likely to lose.
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 8, 2010 1:01 PM CST reply actions
Alas
losing on that “one” big play that we gave up more than we got
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
Damn
That was a quality post. Thank you for all the work you put into it, great reading.
This space for rent.
Nicely done
And I got 3 loads of laundry done while reading it!
Rec’d
Predictions:
1) Fans will feel just scads better from mid-to-end of the 2010 season.
2) During the 2021 season, Ryan Succop will become the Chiefs’ all-time leading scorer with 1469 points.
Jeez
you weren’t kidding when you said you were back with a vengience.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
This was a great read
Thanks for taking the time. Some of your conclusions boil down to oft repeated cliches that no longer are listened to. “Run the ball. stop the run-Protect your quarterback, but get to theirs, take care of the ball, but go after the ball, have a solid defense.”
I know we have had alot of successful offensive teams in the NFL lately, but a team that does these things is always going to be good.
Is it safe?
I also think...
…a part of the problem has been getting the chiefs to adapt to the new style of nfl success-offense. Marty ball was awesome. But qb’s, offenses run the league now. You can’t even touch a wr or qb without getting a flag thrown. Yes, baltimore has great def and is an extremely aggresive def but it seems outdated now. Vermiel came in for a short period of time (4yrs?) and proved that offense wins games. Now, in the playoffs we havent had success. Not sure what to attribute that to.
Mr J
KC Chiefs Fan
I disagree entirely
The new style of NFL success is the same as it ever was. Play sound defense and score enough points to win.
The new style of NFL offense on the other hand, is to use the pass to open the run; to spread the ball around the field; and to play a lot of hot route patterns to defeat blitzes. Yes, offenses have begun to play more 4 and 5 wide sets and trhow the ball more. You have to play defense differently, but defense is still the primary way that you win.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Feb 11, 2010 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Enjoyed the analysis
One thing I would be curious to find out would be if there is a correlation between giving up big plays for touchdowns and winning. How hard would it be to go back and find out how many touchdowns we gave up each year that were for more then 20 yards? Be interesting to see if we gave up fewer big play TDs during our winning season.

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