The Offensive Line Post
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 22, 2010 9:29 PM CST
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Branden Albert is in the crosshairs here or maybe not. The Chiefs have Albert, Ryan O'Callaghan, Ikechuku Nduckwe, and Barry Richardson as OT on the roster.
Barry Richardson 6'6 319 who is now listed on the NFL website as Guard had played in 10 games with 1 start.
Ikechuku Nduckwe 6'4 325 who is listed on the mothership as a Tackle played in 12 games with 3 starts.
The Kansas City Chiefs Tackle position for 2010 seems to be in flux. The Chiefs might deem it worthy the #5 pick in the 2010 draft. The Chiefs also might deem the position worth a traded down pick position if Scott Pioli can work some magic. It is also and probably will be addressed in some way in this draft. The Chiefs have instituted a change in scheme in the second half of the 2009 season with a Zone-Blocking type O-line. All of the current players have now had some time in that scheme and any new-comers would be expected to contribute also.
The whole draft depends on the Chiefs' management decision on Branden Albert as a Long-term LT. If Branden stays then the Chiefs will move to lesser positions of need. If not it would be a tossup on LT or NT based on Fit of the players at the draft position we ultimately pick from. It might also depend on the availabilty of a Player to fit the schemes at the 2a pick. Neither NT or LT is a position easy or cheap to fill in FA.
Draftteck has a couple of very interesting write-ups on the Tackle and Interior O-line positions
www.drafttekblog.com Tackles
www.drafttekblog.com Interior lineman
Offensive Tackles
1st Round Russell Okung Oklahoma State 6'5 300
1st Round Bryan Bulaga Iowa 6'6 312
"The best fit for Bulaga would be on a zone blocking team in the NFL, because of his familiarity with the system. "
1st Round Trent Williams Oklahoma
1st Round Anthony Davis Rutgers
1st Round Bruce Campbell Maryland
1st Round Charles Brown USC 6'5 295 another good fit for a Zone-blocking scheme
2nd Round Jason Fox Miami
2nd Round Rodger Saffold Indiana 6'5 312
2nd Round Selvish Capers West Virginia
2nd Round Jared Veldheer Hillsdale
2nd Round Kyle Calloway Iowa
2nd Round Ciron Black LSU
2nd Round Sam Young Notre Dame 6'8 330 Definitely a RT prospect
Zane Beadles Utah
Ed Wang Virginia Tech
Offensive Guards
1st Round Mike Iupati Idaho Iupati is now being looked at as Tackle prospect and his draft pick will reflect that.
Vladimir Ducasse Massachusetts
Jon Asamoah Illinois
Mike Johnson Alabama
Brandon Carter Texas Tech
Mitch Petrus Arkansas
John Jerry Mississippi
Offensive Centers
1st Round Maurkice Pouncey Florida 6'5 318
An interesting link from the SportingNews
2nd Round J.D. Walton Baylor
3rd Round Matt Tennant Boston College
4th Round Ted Larsen North Carolina State
Other than the skilled positions of LT and Center, most O-Lineman are interchangeable if they fit the scheme. Is it possible to draft the best Center to play a Guard spot? Happens all the time. Would it be better to draft a possible RT and move him to a Guard spot? Again happens all the time. Draft for the best possible outcome and the Guards fall into place. Happens all the time.
Geaux Chiefs
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Up until today i was against drafting a Tackle with the first.. until i watched a 2003 chiefs season highlight…. man i remember Roaf Waters Weingmann Shields and Welbourne….. and the 26 rushing Td’s priest had.. I miss those days,.
Not to mention..
an early round exit in the playoffs because we had our all our eggs in one basket (the offensive line). We need a well rounded team. I’m sick of us being tilted in one direction. Good offense w/ bad to mediocre defense and vice-versa. By the way I’m not against upgrading the offensive line. I’m all for drafting M Pouncey at the top of the 2nd if he falls. But, we cannot afford to draft a tackle 5th. We will get C Brown back from IR and we can get a guy like Zane Beadles (OT/G, Utah) in the 4th or 5th round. He looks like he can be a really good zone blocking guard and a pretty good back-up LT.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Feb 22, 2010 11:23 PM CST up reply actions
and we won HOW MANY games that year?
and if I recall, we DID make the playoffs … yes?
just sayin’ …
I’m sick of us being tilted in one direction
and our first pick in 2009 was … correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it DE?
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Chiefs didn't have all their eggs in one basket. But the bottom kept falling out on the guys they brought in.
Leslie O’Neal. Too old. Ryan Sims bust. Junior Siavii bust. Dan Williams in FA bust. Keith Traylor couldn’t stand Carl. Chester McGlockton bust. Long history of medium-to-high profile failures. Struggled to draft anybody good. Struggled to retain anybody who was any good.
It wasn’t that there was too much talent at OL. That’s silly. The trouble was they kept blowin’ it, not that they failed to invest. And in fairness, I LIKED some of the “system” picks they made, but while the system was sound (in some respects – for instance, DB picks that fell through), their eye for talent was just poor and/or the coach/gm combo did NOT inspire confidence or loyalty in many players, imo.
And it's because some of those late-round DB picks that accomplished little or nothing...
… that I’m TOTALLY open to going top-shelf at DB. ANY weakness at the corner is IMMEDIATELY exposed and exploitedin this league, and unlike the thinking at the Wesley/Bartee time, 90% of the time, it’s that 5’11’’ or 6’0’’ guy who can actually PLAY that’s better than the 6’2’’ or 6’4’’ guy (that I KNOW must be out there, who’s just as big as the WR he faces).
The way I think about this topic is totally contrary to what others always say. I’m one who’d take the best WR talent I could find and tell him I’m going to pay him top dollar to be a DB. I guess you can’t sell any of the young WRs on this, but I really think that talent pool is likely where the best DBs are.
Just to be contrary :)
CB’s are deep this year, better than Carr possibly. Some good FA CB’s too.
Tackles are not, Centers though older might be deeper than the draftable Center depth.
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 24, 2010 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
I think RT-who-can-play-guard are there, and you don't need to go 1st round to do it.
Accomplishing GOOD things at all but LT is very feasible in this draft, because of its depth. Accomplishing GREAT things at the top of the 1st is far from guaranteed, especially if you think conventionally and go for franchise LT, when there really aren’t any…
Not sure I parse your entire mesg correctly.
I don’t care if it’s 1st or 2nd or even 3rd. I just want DBs with coverage skills. Let the Fatties be fatties, the thumpers be thumpers, and the cover guys be cover guys. The hell with thumpers at DB and cover guys at LB. I want coverage and textbook tackling from the DBs.
agreed
I think RT-who-can-play-guard are there, and you don’t need to go 1st round to do it.
But a NT, if we can get better players at other positions in the second round begs a 1st round grab
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 24, 2010 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
Albert is the LT
We spent a first rounder on him and he has the ability. We need several o line upgrades but Albert is not the spot. Picking a RT with the top five is something an elite team would do yet it is doubtful that they would be picking in a top five postion. The blocking got better because zone blocking is not as easy as beat the guy in front of you. The current lineman were getting it and when Cassel learns to send the ball on its way 1/2 second sooner they will look like they are major getting it. In addition to that when the recievers can run precise routes and arrive at the point of reception before the defender, the whole offense will really look like they major get it.
Yeah...but we beat the donkeys like a rented mule.
I agree...
shaking up the entire make-up of the offensive line would mean more growing pains, meaning taking another two steps back so we can go forward. I think we need two quality interior lineman and our line should be stable. Replace Niswanger and Waters and the whole unit will get better. And I think Waters is a great guy, but he is only getting worse. I’d rather start a young guy in his place like a M Johnson (G, Alabama) or Petrus (G, Arkansas) w/ a mid round pick. Thats it. Two simple moves, greater time to get used together, and an overall more competant offense will make the line seem leaps and bounds better than last year.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Feb 22, 2010 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Waters was HURT all season.
He’s still good for a couple more years. Not as dominant as he was but still effective. For this season, I would be fine if we just draft the best Center on the board at 2A and let the guys already on the roster fight it out for the RG job. let them practice TOGETHER as a unit for the entire offseason and we will have a solid line next year.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Feb 23, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
Agree, Waters graded very high, even though we all had moments where we could see he was lunging
or he was gettin’ the hold or the false start at key moments in games I invested my heart in. He was a big part of why I was so discouraged last year. I didn’t LIKE losing, but I HATED that every bit of momentum the Chiefs had a shot at generating was snatched away by the left side of that line.
But you factor in the injuries and look at the actual grades by Bewsaf, and then look at some of those earlier games last season that broke your heart, and you see the left side being overloaded all day long, and the STRONG side being beaten soundly 1-on-1.
The TEs were all thinkin’ like receivers, so there was little help (to my eye) early from their blocking, and it wasn’t until spots in the last few games that the front 5 (or 6) held up.
I disagree with the notion that Cassel was slow getting the ball out. I think he was ready by or before the routes of his receivers developed. When the running of Jamaal finally started sellin’ the play fake, suddenly guys like Pope, Cottam, and even O’Connell (a couple catches) started looking like they could catch the ball. Before the play-fake started workin’, the ball was being forced out by opposing defenses. Late in the season the O-Line started getting it, although they weren’t necessarily facing the best D-Lines, either…
Most of LJ’s struggles were rooted in O-Line. I think he’d’ve held it together a lot better if the O-Line had held it together on the field. Feel much the same about Kolby Smith. That’s why I’m TOTALLY OK with keeping the kid, who looks like he has a complete tool kit and just needs the right situation to prove it. Time wasn’t ripe for him in ‘09. I think Charles shows what a special talent at RB can do for a team, but I also think a team is foolish to count on the great RB, without a line that gets him to the 2nd level on a consistent basis and can root out 3rd ’n’ 2’s all day long.
Also agree that top 5 for RT is not wise.
I can see going trenches with the first couple (or even three) picks, and if that be the case, reaching for DL seems more likely than OL in the 1st, imo. I think the 2a pick on RT is VERY likely to move O’Callaghan to swing tackle and NDUKWE to G, where he BELONGS. Ndukwe’s got good enough feet to be an emergency RT, but we’re talking planets-colliding emergency, from a lineman who’s a MORE than respectable G.
And you’re still at top-shelf for C at 2b or 3a, imo, so THAT would make sense. And there goes my genius first 3 rounds: All trenches.
Not sayin’ that HAS to be the way things go, but it’s A way that I can see that frees you up for years to come to tinker with gold- ‘n’ silver-plated LBs and RBs. I just suspect that if they DID go trenches this way, that KC would discover they already had an electro-plate tank out back behind the locker room, and start turning out their OWN homegrown 3rd- and 4th- round ‘backs ’n’ ’backers who can blind you on a sunny day.
Only thing in the way of my evil plans is what a PRO scout has to say about value of a particular player. All my talk is general considerations, and sometimes the BPA is NOT that lineman who fits your system plans.
well it doesn't matter if that player is awesome if
sometimes the BPA is NOT that lineman who fits your system plans.
He doesn’t fit the scheme, we got enough of those players we are trying to round into the square holes now :)
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 24, 2010 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
Nice job Steve. Do you favor any of the listed prospects? Oh, btw, my interview with Long Ball, part 1 is coming up this Wed.
Merlinnj
I would probably favor Bulaga over Okung if we were to pick the LT in round one.
Bulaga has the Zone block scheme background and I think Iowa is a Pro-set Offense.
Less upside maybe but also less risk. Charles Brown at a RT maybe if he falls to 2nd round.
Pouncey of course. Just by reading a lot lately. I begin to wonder why you would ever draft a Guard at all. Drafting Centers and or Tackle candidates and plug em in at Guard until you need em on the edge or the Center. Looking forward to reading it Merlin :)
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 23, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
Charles Brown?
absolutely… he’s the best ZB OT in the draft
would be a PERFECT fit… I’d take him at 2a and run… or even consider moving from 2a back into the end of the first to get him
I think he would make people forget about Okung or Bulaga, and KC would still be able to get Berry/McClain/Haden or whoever with the #5 pick
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* keep Albert at LT, upgrade the positions that NEED upgrading.C, RG, NT, S, LB
Yeah
I like C.Brown the more i here about him the more i like him. I hope we reach at #5 and go after the best NT in the draft, then go Pouncey with 2a, and C.Brown with 2b.
by CPT.Caveman on Feb 23, 2010 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know much about Charles Brown
Could you link some info about him.
Thanks.
Go Chiefs!!!!
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/2/9/1298494/charles-brown-nfl-draft-scouting
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* keep Albert at LT, upgrade the positions that NEED upgrading.C, RG, NT, S, LB
anytime
bottom line: Brown is the BEST Zone Blocking Tackle in the draft… he won’t be a great fit for non-ZB teams, because he’s undersized and not overly powerful… so he COULD slip into the 2nd.
He’d be an absolutley ideal OT for the Chiefs to draft, without spending a top 1st round pick
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* keep Albert at LT, upgrade the positions that NEED upgrading.C, RG, NT, S, LB
Looks like he needs to increase his power for the run game.
that’s the only big negative that I see.
Go Chiefs!!!!
exactly
* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters
* keep Albert at LT, upgrade the positions that NEED upgrading.C, RG, NT, S, LB
WtexKC...
…posted this article, from WPI, in the FanShots. it’s a great read and makes the case for why management will probably leave Albert alone.
I think I ran across the link before I started to write the post.
Crawford’s post was good to read to. We have no reason not to examine all the options on the board:) We have 2 months to go :(
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 23, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
great post, Steve ... rec'd and ty for the hard work
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Thanks I really should have stuck a picture in and some more links to the draft reports.
I cut off the candidates at around top 150 picks or so. Don’t have anymore beyond that anyways.
We do have a lot of possible candidates for the line on the roster now. Maybe one Tackle and one Center should be enough in this off-season.
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 23, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
this title is misleading.
i thought this was going to be about how OFFENSIVE all this line talk (drafting a LT) is…..
"We're not losers, we just can't win!"
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 24, 2010 10:28 AM CST reply actions
The Kansas City Chiefs Tackle position for 2010 seems to be in flux
really? says who? what ‘evidence’ do you have for that which takes into account the variables of this past season and then equates to our Ts being in ‘flux’?
The whole draft depends on the Chiefs’ management decision on Branden Albert as a Long-term LT. If Branden stays then the Chiefs will move to lesser positions of need
So basically you’re judgment is the gospel; far above real NFL executives?? because you’ve already loaded that phrase, ‘If Branden stays then the chiefs will move on to LESSER POSITIONS OF NEED’ you’ve already declared LT the GREATEST POSITION OF NEED. and imo and many others, the LT w/ pick # 5 supporters are wrong. very wrong. and continue to go down that road despite the evidence.
"We're not losers, we just can't win!"
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 24, 2010 10:41 AM CST reply actions
have people not read this article?
"We're not losers, we just can't win!"
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 24, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Actually Bansky linked that article from WtexKC
on this post 2 days ago and actually the linked story and WtexKC’s link were posted AFTER I did the fanpost.
I did not say that LT was a position of need :) I posed the question on whether the Chiefs Mgmt thought it might be.
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 24, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
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