No One Seems To Know What Pick Chiefs Gave Up For Alleman, Ndukwe

by Joel Thorman on Feb 20, 2010 11:37 AM CST in 2010 Kansas City Chiefs Season

When the Kansas City Chiefs traded an "undisclosed draft pick" to the Miami Dolphins for offensive linemen Andy Alleman and Ikechuku Ndukwe, it was reported/speculated/assumed that the compensation was a sixth round pick.

Six months later, it still hasn't been confirmed what, exactly, the pick was. In fact, ESPN's Tim Graham calls it "one of the great mysteries in the NFL."

The Dolphins told Graham it wasn't their policy to reveal that information and the Chiefs declined Bill Williamson's request.

ESPN's John Clayton said it's the only 2009 trade details he's waiting on.

The NFL won't release the final draft order until April (still waiting on compensatory picks) so I imagine nothing will be "official" until then.

Of course we're dealing with Bill Parcells and son-in-law Scott Pioli so if they had an agreement not to disclose the pick -- and then one of them did open up about it -- it could make for an awkward family dinner.

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Isn't there a rule forcing them to report this?

But, he has to be a 6th….right? Don’t we have 1 – 1st, 2 – 2nd, 1- 3rd, 1-4th, 3-5th, 0 – 6th (to Miami for Alleman/Ndukwe), 0 – 7th (to ?, for O’Connell TE, Miami (OH))

by BoShootsGrizzlies on Feb 20, 2010 11:47 AM CST reply actions

Official NFL Draft order isn't out yet

Arrowhead Pride

by Joel Thorman on Feb 20, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions

'he' as in the pick...and

I still wonder what they saw in O’Connell to bother trading up to get him…they must have thought someone else was going to grab him or there was no chance they’d be able to sign him as an UDFA. I didn’t notice much from O’Connell. I wonder if he has potential to be a great TE. They even brought in his fellow TE Crabtree from Miami (OH). I’m just curious what they saw in him.

And I still wonder what they expect from Colin Brown as a 5th rd pick last year. I wonder if he would have been drafted at all last year. He’s big, tall, and supposed to be athletic, but his demeanor seems quiet and unassuming (which isn’t necessarily bad).

And who has the better chance to start first – Donald Washington or Dajuan Morgan?

by BoShootsGrizzlies on Feb 20, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

morgan has had years...

Washington has a lot of raw athletic ability, we will see, I think its unfair to write off washington OR colin brown….they obviously saw something in the kid, and now we have ANOTHER player pretty much that will be new on the squad trying to make the team this year…healthy, ready to go…its another project OL that may have had the time to improve with bill muir…Right now we have a lot of picks in 1-5 rounds, Brown is pretty much thrown in there, as for O’connell…they saw something from TWO TE’s from that same small school, obviously there has to be a reason for that.

Vince Wilfork will be Scott Pioli's top offseason priority and will be a Chief.
KC Will Trade Derrick Johnson=

by SDChief on Feb 20, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions

Great questions

I too wonder what the hell they saw in O’Connell to warrant trading back into the 7th round for. It’s a relatively low risk but one Pioli evidently thought was worth taking. I forgot about the Crabtree connection.

Either Donald Washington or Colin Brown is going be looked back upon as the worst pick of that draft. My money is on Washington simply because CB’s have a higher washout rate in the NFL. I think most in the league were being respectful to Pioli by not calling him on that reach but I guess it was overshadowed last year by the Raiders taking Mitchell in the 2nd. My money is on Morgan being a strarter in this league over Washington.

D.J. #56 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
The only thing more lame than mock draft's is the sarcasm font.

by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 20, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions

to be fair

Washington was a good value pick at that point… Brown was the big reach

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters

by stagdsp on Feb 20, 2010 2:08 PM CST up reply actions

Next year - make or break for Morgan?

I could see this year being critical for Morgan. He’s headed into his third yr (maybe 4th yr). Herm is supposed to be a good evaluator of secondary guys, so you have to believe Morgan has talent. He looked good in the preseason and had some big plays in one regular season game. (if my memory holds)

Donald Washington will be interesting to follow. Also I wonder if they think Brandon Carr is solid enough. His play against Gaffney that last game was atrocious.

by BoShootsGrizzlies on Feb 20, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions

What they saw

This is from a 4/26 AP post by Ken Harvey…

“O’Connell, who spent most of his career at Gulf Coast in the defensive secondary and returning punts, made the transition to tight end at Miami (Ohio), where he enters the NFL Draft with as impressive physical attributes as any other at his position. O’Connell is listed at 6-foot-4 and 255 pounds, but he’s beefed up in preparation for the draft, running a 40-yard dash at around 4.6 seconds — faster than top tight end prospect Jason Pettigrew of Oklahoma State — while springing a 41-inch vertical jump and benching 225 pounds 20 times.”

So, athleticism for one thing. I think Big Jake got a partial Punt block late in the season. KC traded their 2010 7th rounder for a 2009 7th pick. Not much of a reach.

by Kane on Feb 20, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions

good find

it was athleticism for sure, I heard that right after the draft, too.

He did show some little glimpses as the season went on… I think he’s a very good blocker, as well

by stagdsp on Feb 20, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, good find...

They probably think they found a steal with O’Connell. Most TE’s don’t have an impact their first year, especially in an Offensive system that is supposed to be complex. I just saw a quote today from Marvin Lewis about Chase Coffman looking great his first year despite not making it in a game. Someone mentioned Weis coahing good TE’s at Notre Dame with John Carlson and Anthony Fasano. Let’s hope O’Connell’s athleticism + 2nd year + Weis’s system translates into a promising Tight End. Cottam was also looking solid at the end of the year. You have to expect Pope to be back, but hopefully Cottam and O’Connell turn the TE position into one of the team’s strengths.

by BoShootsGrizzlies on Feb 20, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions

This kinda scares me a little bit actually.

It makes me think it could be a high pick like a 4th or 5th as opposed to the 6th we hope for. This could mean we got a really bad trade. Or its also possible it was a conditional pick and maybe we might not have to give any compensation up if they didn’t meet the requisite conditions (very doubtful). I can just hope for a 6th round pick and no more and no less

by ChiefMizzou09 on Feb 20, 2010 11:53 AM CST reply actions

honestly I doubt that pioli would give up a 5 for those two guys...It may be a seven next year for all we know

Vince Wilfork will be Scott Pioli's top offseason priority and will be a Chief.
KC Will Trade Derrick Johnson=

by SDChief on Feb 20, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions

How about can we have our self-respect back for these 2 losers. Bravo, we gave up a draft pick for 2 guys that couldn't start for Boise State

by chiefnyc on Feb 20, 2010 12:34 PM CST reply actions

Alleman didnt do bad for us, and if Ndukwe moves back to his guard position he will be better.

Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!

by nateforchiefs on Feb 20, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions

agreed... they both have already contributed more than one late round pick usually does

by stagdsp on Feb 20, 2010 2:08 PM CST up reply actions

So in other words you are happy with how this deal worked out? You feelk this was good for the Chiefs.

by chiefnyc on Feb 21, 2010 3:20 AM CST up reply actions

Depends.

If we gave up a 5th or lower I’m fine with it. Higher and I will be a little disappointed. We got two players for one draft pick, and they’re both decent backups. Its not a bad deal for us overall.

Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!

by nateforchiefs on Feb 21, 2010 8:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Agreed

Frankly, once you get down to the 6th round you’re fairly lucky to find anyone who’ll be able to make the roster for more than a year (if that) and contribute. We got two, even if they’re just backup quality. It was a dump trade for Miami, but worth it for the Chiefs.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride

by UCrawford on Feb 21, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions

That's not true

we gave at worst a 5th rounder and at best a 7th rounder. You’re lucky to find any depth position players in those rounds let a lone starters. We’ve gotten 2 basically for the price of one which is a good flip if you ask me. It’s basically like trading Colin Brown for Ndukwe & Alleman which either way I don’t see anyone there getting screwed. Let the two guys prove themselves in camp after a year in the system and if they’re not the best guys suited to be Chiefs, then we can discuss about who got the better of who. Hell, next year Bones could be lighting it up in Buffalo and then we’ll all be talking about how Pioli & Papa got robbed by Chan the man. But the point is a lot of 5th round picks and beyond couldn’t start for Boise State.

D.J. #56 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
The only thing more lame than mock draft's is the sarcasm font.

by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 20, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions

Couple fringe players on a bad OL

Get rid of em

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 20, 2010 12:42 PM CST reply actions

Hey whatever turns your crank. If your content or want to come up with excuses how this worked out for us power to you.

by chiefnyc on Feb 20, 2010 12:43 PM CST reply actions

it was a good trade

brought much needed depth for 2009 and hopefully beyond.

Both guys started some games, and have a chance to contribute going forward

I’m sure I saw it announced by Babb and Looney that it was a 6th round pick…
which IS good value for TWO linemen that contributed right away.

by stagdsp on Feb 20, 2010 2:07 PM CST reply actions

Minor note on Final Draft Order

Its not only compensatory picks, still have coin flips (impacts Chief’s 2b pick). I assumed that the compensation was going to be impacted by performance (number of snaps, starts) or status as of a specific date (still on roster at season’s end).

by Kane on Feb 20, 2010 2:20 PM CST reply actions

Coin Toss On Friday

All the coin tosses to determine draft order happen on Friday and I’m guessing that’s when we’ll find out what the Chiefs traded…

by Kane on Feb 24, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions

A month ago...

…on the KCChiefs.com fan forums, Josh Looney said he was “99% sure” that these are KC’s picks:

Round 1 – 5th overall
Round 2 – 36th overall
Round 5 – 50th overall (from Atlanta)
Round 3 – 69th overall
Round 4 – 100th overall
Round 5 – 133rd overall
Round 5 – 139th overall (from Miami)
Round 5 – 144th overall (from Carolina)
Round 6 – 164th overall

Picks lost – Round 7 – 197th overall (to Miami)

I thought he might be mistaken in listing the 6th round pick. But if the details of that trade aren’t yet known, then maybe it was conditional and neither Ndukwe or Alleman saw enough playing time.

I could swear, though, that I heard an interview with Pioli where he mentioned not having a sixth or seventh round pick. But that was late in the season, so maybe he wasn’t sure himself whether the conditions had been triggered.

by SlipperyPete on Feb 20, 2010 5:04 PM CST reply actions

BoShootsGrizzlies had it right

wikipedia has the same thing he said.

by chiefs316 on Feb 20, 2010 5:27 PM CST reply actions

I could see this...

The draft order is announced, and Miami has KC’s fourth round pick. There is much gnashing of teeth and tearing of garments and cries of despair, and then somebody see Channing Crowder at the airport…

The path to Victory is made of losers.

by Brsrkr on Feb 20, 2010 10:25 PM CST reply actions

I could be wrong but I thought

we gave up a 5th for these two guys and then got that pick back for Thigpen

by badassz1987 on Feb 20, 2010 10:40 PM CST reply actions

We gave up a CONDITIONAL PICK for Ndukwe & Alleman or Future considerations...

We basically means,

Parcels : "I’ll give you these guys (whom I’m gonna cut anyways) on the conditionthat you
let me CUT the Turkey during our traditional family Thanksgiving meal, even if its in your house.

Pioli: DONE!

See how business between family works.

and Future considerations between family is translated into…

If these Guys turn out to be something good, your gonna give me a future lower draft choice for no apparent reason.

HEY….its family….ForGETaboutIT…..

Opinions are like A--holes, everyones got one.

by aPacificChief on Feb 20, 2010 11:25 PM CST reply actions