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Would a 4-3 be better for us?




 It seems to me that more and more teams are switching to a 3-4 defense. The chiefs are one of those teams. With that being the case we're starting to get rid of more and more 4-3 players and bringing in more 3-4 players. I think we have enough talent right now where we could switch back to the 4-3.  If we had a 4-3 defense right now heres how I could see it.

 

I would sign Julius Peppers and put him at LE. I don't think he would be very good in a 3-4 system. Unless he would be an outside rush linebacker similar to what Tamba Hali does. I would also like to see Hali move to the RE position. Glenn Dorsey's skills best fit him for a 4-3 defense. He is great at shedding blocks and rushing the passer in a 3 technique. Tyson Jackson is probably the best for a 3-4 on our whole d-line. I could see TJ playing the 1 technique or if we need him to he could also play end. 

 

In our offseason plans right now it is sincerly important for us to either sing or draft a great nose tackle. Its the heart of the 3-4 defense. I think that in the draft if we somehow have the chance to get suh or mccoy we'll have to pass up on them because they dont fit our defense. This wouldnt be a problem if we had a 4-3.

with a possible 4-3 d-line of: hali, mccoy, suh, peppers, jackson, dorsey those are all first round players and we could have the best defenseive line in the league.

as for linebackers...  Derrick Johnson could probably play a 3-4 or 4-3 linebacker. He was originally drafted as a 4-3 guy. So he should have no problem at any LB position especially with the D-line we could have. Demarrio williams is the same way. I think he could play in either system thats IF we don't replace him. Mcclain in the draft would also be a good pickup. We also have a chance to pickup our biggest mistake that we let go Scott Fulita.

 

 

whatever the chiefs do i'm behind them 100% I think if crennell can get the chiefs to become a dominant 3-4 defense i'm all for it. I just think we're closer to being a better 4-3 defense than a 3-4

Poll
Should we move to a 4-3 again?
yes
26 votes
no
74 votes
not sure
10 votes

110 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters

by stagdsp on Feb 19, 2010 12:19 PM CST reply actions  

Oh c'mon

D.J. #56 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
The only thing more lame than mock draft's is the sarcasm font.

by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 19, 2010 12:31 PM CST reply actions  

no no no make this stop!

Regardless of who the Chiefs pick at #5 overall, Whitlock will call it the worst pick in the history of the Chiefs. Heres to hoping that #5 pick runs Whitlock out of town.....

by jrcnc on Feb 19, 2010 1:13 PM CST reply actions  

...didn't we just have a front page post discussing this topic?

We’ve switched to the 3-4. We’re staying for the immediate future.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Feb 19, 2010 1:19 PM CST reply actions  

Not just no...HELL no!

Seriously, the Chiefs are committed to the scheme we have right now. That’s why we suffered through the barely watchable season we just endured. The players we have now are mostly here to play in the 3-4 and it would be ridiculous to scrap everything after the players have already made the adjustments to playing this way.

Besides that, Romeo is a 3-4 DC. We need to just let him work his magic.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Feb 19, 2010 2:52 PM CST reply actions  

If we could

somehow get Jared Allen back, I would be all for it. Otherwise, no.

by wilson123 on Feb 19, 2010 3:12 PM CST reply actions  

Not a 4-3 per se.

And maybe not your daddy’s 3-4, either. As has been pointed out, the traditional 3-4 NT may get harder and more expensive, putting you right back in the same old boat, needing the very best from a very limited talent pool.

But something that MAY work better if KC continues looking for the real deal at NT would be going bigger at OLB. Someone like Brandon Graham on the strong side. A ‘tweener who’s on the LB side of the LB-DE divide (rather than a small DE we try to make into a starting 4-3 DE).

You’d essentially be running a 5-2-4, with 2 of your front 5 starting in an upright stance ’most all day long. These OLBs are more mobile than ’most any DE in the league, and your 5 man front would stack up in terms of stout, with T-Jax being able to cheat inside a bit more and a bit more often, with a Brandon Graham anchoring the edge.

All this would hinge on getting more speed in the defensive backfield, with 1 or 3 more DBs who can single-cover on a fairly regular basis.

Still want that true NT. Might be tough to land Dan Williams, who looks to be the surest thing out there in the draft, right now, but he’d take a while to mature into the position, starting by rotating with Ron Edwards.

by hmills110 on Feb 19, 2010 3:41 PM CST reply actions  

Bad memory here but

didn’t we line in 5-2 a lot last year? I wish we’d all agree on how we describe the defense. IMHO I’d like to see us numbering them by whether or not they’re on the line of scrimmage, not by whether or not they have their hand on the ground.

I like your idea for the D but, if I understand what you’re saying, we’d need to upgrade about half of the starters. NT, 2 or 3 LBs and 2 or 3 of the DBs. If that’s what your advocating we’d be going way beyond tweeking into serious overhaul. It’s a tall order but if SP can manage to upgrade over half the D I’m all for it.

by breeder on Feb 19, 2010 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Pretty much

The 3-4 base front is just the old 5-2 with two outside linebackers instead of defensive ends. The defensive tackles (called ends nowadays) line up in 4-technique and the nose in 0-tech, the same in both.

by alakan81 on Feb 19, 2010 6:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Haden or Berry with Flowers might give us that

or we could go with an OLB and NT combo to pressure the QB and allow Carr/Flowers to press. Maybe another option but I don’t see it

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 19, 2010 11:21 PM CST up reply actions  

ANY DB who can come up and play press convincingly...

and Donald Washington might just be able to do that next season…

Leggett and Morgan also have some tools. But I think it’s smart to pursue a regular infusion of fresh talent with real closing speed until (and beyond the time when) it’s clear they’ve turned the corner @ corner and aren’t just good in spots, but can play aggressively against the BEST.

I think going high at ILB right now dilutes the overall team-building effort, and is fraught with higher probability of setbacks, when the gold-plated ILB is facing the untouched o-lineman in tight quarters on an every-down basis. Gotta let those guys roam free, and when they CAN, just might be surprised at the quality of the guys we already have.

by hmills110 on Feb 19, 2010 11:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe you didn't read that I have reverted

Berry or Haden ala Rex Ryan to create a stouter secondary would be great.
ILB in FA or later in the draft would upgrade Mays and of course a NT wherever we can uproot one would be a priority

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 20, 2010 12:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Chiefs need more elite speed in the secondary, one or two more man coverage-capable DBs.

This needs to happen in ANY case. Hence the excitement generated by Berry and Hayden (sp?). But some more elite speed being added in the 2nd or 3rd would also do some good to the overall unit. Mainly want to see a D that can come FORWARD when you’re foolish enough to try ‘n’ spread things out. Make extra wides mean the offense is losing too much in protection for the payoff in open receivers. Last 10 years (give or take), the KC D has had to back off and give free releases all across the line against extra wides.

But I’m not talking an overhaul, breeder. NT and DB are priorities, followed by rush LB. The ILBs we have and could obtain for relatively little, should suffice. I like Dansby, but I’d rather not see KC spend $10 million-plus at ILB before trenches and perimeter are SERIOUSLY upgraded, by which time we probably feel a lot better about the ILB we already have.

NT is pretty important, and seems THE most likely “big move” Pioli might make in FA. I don’t think our GM’s afraid to spend a draft pick on a FA – just not a lot of ‘em, and only for the sure thing, and only if there’s an extra player thrown in. Wilfork, Hampton, Pickett definitely in that mix.

And I ain’t as worked up as everyone else about ILB high in the draft. And if the front 5 can get more pressure on its own, ALL the current DBs, zone-, man-, whichever, are going to play better, so incremental improvement in the secondary might be plenty, and certainly seems doable. A serious upgrade/value pick @ rush OLB could probably be had in 2nd or 3rd. I’d even be OK with moving up a few slots if it brought Brandon Graham into the fold.

by hmills110 on Feb 19, 2010 11:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I've just seen too many defenses improve exponentially

By the strength down the middle of the field, namely within 5 yards of the ball.

A nose tackle would vastly “improve” the play of the ILBs we have, or more accurately it would allow a chance to operate without a guard driving them out of the hole on every play. So, yes, we need a good nose tackle. Where will he come from? I don’t know, but I’m assuming we have some sort of plan. I don’t think there’s a top 5 NT in the draft, though, so the next in line, in my opinion, are inside linebackers.

Maybe we don’t need Rolando McClain back there, although I would argue that a guy that size with that kind of athletic and mental ability would be a vast improvement over a guy like Demorrio Williams, but we need guys that have enough size and strength to be involved in the play even if they aren’t kept totally clean by the defensive line.

by alakan81 on Feb 20, 2010 12:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I respect that.

But I look at how successful Ray-Ray was, despite an obviously deteriorating toolkit. It’s those fatties up front and Ray-Ray’s BRAIN (and durability) that are keeping him and that D in it. And while his playing years might be limited, he was FAR from the weak link down the stretch when they struggled. I would make the case that a Vrabel could bring a LOT of that ILB that you want to see, if the other stuff is workin’.

And yes, ANY ILB is going to be asked to fight through the trash, time to time. But the point is minimizing that trash, before throwing a high pick or high dollars at the position.

But Pioli went big @ QB before settin’ the table @ OL. There IS something to be said for a future leader @ ILB to have been there during the tough times. An ILB who was already there when the rookies keep rollin’ in in 2011 and beyond… I can see that. I just prefer to do things differently. It’s like sending a girl a box of chocolates before buying her a negligee.

by hmills110 on Feb 20, 2010 12:55 AM CST up reply actions  

I love hmills

We need him in the 1st round to assist the coaches :)
No Sarcasm font

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 19, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Thx, Steve. I'm sure the coaches don't need me, and

so far, I’ve been ABYSMAL at predicting Pioli.

My recent rants for rush LB are an evolution in my thinking. I think it likely that the guys who were saying it 2 months or more ago have mostly moved on to other things, while I’ve been struck since by seeing what a Mathis (more DE than OLB) or Suggs (again, a bit more DE in his game) can bring to the strong side and the D as a whole.

And I’m VERY slow to be critical of our ILBs biting on the play-fake and being a step late in their drops or taking poor angles, because of the train wreck that’s been taking place in front of them. Chiefs haven’t yet set the table for ILB and by the time they do, we likely find that goin’ high-dollar at ILB is unnecessary.

by hmills110 on Feb 19, 2010 11:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

McClain is nice and Berry would be a great pickup for FS/CB.
Haden is more of a need and Graham with a S/CB pickup would really answer some questions. Some push towards Hali with a true NT to stop the QB from stepping up.
Cannot have everyone :(

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 20, 2010 12:12 AM CST up reply actions  

NT, DB, OLB are the 3 things I'd be looking most to upgrade.

Not too particular on exactly how that gets done, as long as these position groups receive priority attention. Those were the 3 areas of greatest remaining weakness on the ballclub, imo.

And while we ALL saw numerous times when Edwards did NOT get it done as we would like, he DID get it right a few times, and there were usually breakdowns elsewhere when he DID. No disrespect to Krumrie, but I think it’s entirely possible that just the guys KC has now will play much better with Pleasant and Crennel in place. But I also think these two will be instrumental in bringing in additional talent, as well.

I’ll prob’ly be scratchin’ my head after every Pioli pick and be the last to grok anything he does in FA.

by hmills110 on Feb 20, 2010 12:39 AM CST up reply actions  

well I understand we're committed to a 3-4

and I think we’ll do very well with that. i’m just sying it seems to me that the chiefs have people better suited for a 4-3

You're a goddamn quarterback! You know what that means? It's the top spot, kid. It's the guy who takes the fall. It's the guy everybody's looking at first - the leader of a team - who will support you when they understand you. Who will break their ribs and their noses and their necks for you, because they believe. 'Cause you make them believe. That's a quarterback.
--- Any given sunday

Cassel can lead us.

by BEEf_CHIEF on Feb 19, 2010 6:35 PM CST reply actions  

Well, of course we do.

We’ve had 1 3-4 draft to go with how many 4-3 drafts? Just give it time. Patience is a virtue after all.

by The Insider on Feb 19, 2010 7:09 PM CST up reply actions  

very true!

no matter what happens i’m trusting crennell!

You're a goddamn quarterback! You know what that means? It's the top spot, kid. It's the guy who takes the fall. It's the guy everybody's looking at first - the leader of a team - who will support you when they understand you. Who will break their ribs and their noses and their necks for you, because they believe. 'Cause you make them believe. That's a quarterback.
--- Any given sunday

Cassel can lead us.

by BEEf_CHIEF on Feb 19, 2010 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

i have patience for

2 years… and this will be year 2. the switch better produce.

by rich04 on Feb 19, 2010 10:18 PM CST up reply actions  

From what I've

Read about Crennell, He’s going to be running a composite 3-4 / 4-3 front. Moving our base back to the 4-3 as of right now would be counterproductive. I don’t buy it. Yeah. a lot of teams are going to the 3-4, But, we’re also ahead of the curve with a lot of them so far. We’ve had two players make the transition with outstanding results. (Dorsey and Hali) Remember, Hali was a marginal Defensive End at best before. Now, he’s becoming a monster at the Pass Rush. Glen Dorsey was seen as at best a two technique Defensive Tackle, who has turned into a gap stuffing Defensive end. His quickness and athleticism made him a perfect fit and transition to the Defensive End position in the 3-4. Tyson Jackson will be able to do the same thing next year. All we need is a Nose Tackle and an ILB to make us light years better. Our corners will improve. If we can improve the safety spot even a little bit in free agency/draft, then we’ll be right at the cusp of a much improved defense. Then, we can start putting more focus on the Offense. This really isn’t such a diffcult concept, and It’s very feasable to get done in the next two years. I don’t expect us to be playoff contenders until the season after this one, But, We have a lot of the key pieces in place now. Why throw that away?

by BetterRedThanDead on Feb 21, 2010 10:18 AM CST reply actions  

If SUH somehow drops to us then I would probably move back to the 4-3 the next day....

….Pick up another DE/passrusher in FA and let her rip. Can you imagine the amount of pressure that SUH and Dorsey would get up the middle when paired together? Scarey.

My bold prediction and I think our best chance at moving down in the 1st. Bret Favre retires, Tavarris Jackson is not retained or leaves and the Vikings trade up, with our beloved Chiefs, for Jimmy Claussen.

WRITE IT DOWN!

by BigRedChief on Feb 21, 2010 11:31 AM CST reply actions  

so

Hali Dorsey Suh Jackson Vrabel is not a good enough front 5 for the Chiefs 3-4 D

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 21, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

It is but I would rather see Dorsey and SUH get more one on one matchups....

….in the 4-3 than making one of them take on 2 blockers in the 3-4. That said IF I were to take SUH and run a 3-4, I would put SUH at the NT spot because I think his ability to shed blockers and get pressure would create total chaos for an o-line.

My bold prediction and I think our best chance at moving down in the 1st. Bret Favre retires, Tavarris Jackson is not retained or leaves and the Vikings trade up, with our beloved Chiefs, for Jimmy Claussen.

WRITE IT DOWN!

by BigRedChief on Feb 21, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I think if we add a good NT and help from the S position, the defense suddenly is better. DJ needs to be on the field, and we need to find our own “Ray Lewis” in the LB corps, but I don’t think our 3-4 is that far away from being good

by Mustang51 on Feb 25, 2010 11:06 PM CST reply actions  

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