Too Many 3-4 Teams Could Affect The Chiefs

by Joel Thorman on Feb 19, 2010 10:03 AM CST in 2010 Kansas City Chiefs Season

In recent years we've seen more and more teams converting to the 3-4 defense. There are now three AFC West teams running the 3-4 defense and with the Bills making the conversion this season, all the AFC East teams are. It's become popular in recent years and that's not necessarily a good thing for the Chiefs.

What defines many 3-4 defenses is the nose tackle. The problem is that there's very, very few competent nose tackles in the NFL.

ESPN's John Clayton suggests that the more 3-4 teams we see, the less quality we'll see.

"I honestly think that too many teams are making the switch to the 3-4 and that there aren't enough good nose tackles or five-technique defensive ends to make the 3-4 work well," Clayton wrote on ESPN.com.

The Chiefs appear to have the defensive ends down with three players drafted in the last two seasons at the position but nose tackle could be a big problem quickly. Ron Edwards is no spring chicken and didn't dominate the nose tackle position last season.

After that, the Chiefs don't have anyone on the roster capable of playing that role and now, with more teams looking for similar players, it's going to be difficult to find.

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What great 3-4 defender wouldn't want to play for the greatest franchise and fanbase in the NFL?

My bold prediction and I think our best chance at moving down in the 1st. Bret Favre retires, Tavarris Jackson is not retained or leaves and the Vikings trade up, with our beloved Chiefs, for Jimmy Claussen.

WRITE IT DOWN!

by BigRedChief on Feb 19, 2010 10:08 AM CST reply actions

I Think The Chiefs Screwed Themselves With The 3-4 Switch

Not only did they not have the personnel on-hand to run that defense when they made the change, but with the changes to free agency this year it’s going to be that much harder to find players to fill those positions long-term.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride

by UCrawford on Feb 19, 2010 10:10 AM CST reply actions

what a smart man =)

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Feb 19, 2010 10:11 AM CST up reply actions

Maybe Someone Should Provide Pioli With A Copy Of "Moneyball"

About how competition is about looking for and building around undervalued assets, not following what everyone else is doing.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride

by UCrawford on Feb 19, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I'm really afraid

the switch to 3-4 is going to haunt this team for years. We’re discrading decent players the “don’t fit” the new system and not replacing them with talent that fits the new system.

Hopefully, my concerns are unfounded, and the set back is only temporary. Fingers crossed.

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Feb 19, 2010 10:10 AM CST reply actions

That does it.

Back to the 4-3 we go!
j/k kinda…

Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!

by nateforchiefs on Feb 19, 2010 10:10 AM CST reply actions

It's Still Not Too Late

But I doubt they’ll do it.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride

by UCrawford on Feb 19, 2010 10:11 AM CST up reply actions

Not with Romeo on board...

We had one year with a bad DC and bad players…well we have a good DC now and the same bad players…hopefully Romeo get’s the most out of the ones we keep, and develop the ones we draft.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 19, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions

Crennel has already said

we are going to run 3-4 and 4-3. Hopefully that will keep some of the personel here that are better suited to 4-3 on this team.

Regardless of who the Chiefs pick at #5 overall, Whitlock will call it the worst pick in the history of the Chiefs. Heres to hoping that #5 pick runs Whitlock out of town.....

by jrcnc on Feb 19, 2010 10:14 AM CST reply actions

This is why I think we will draft Williams.

by Helmets on Feb 19, 2010 10:14 AM CST reply actions

Yep

There’s one way we can be sure to get our choice of a NT – draft him with #5.

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Feb 19, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions

Love how there are people who say that NTs are not worth top 5 picks.

Really? Let’s see here. 1. They are extremely hard to find. 2. There are 14-15 teams (If I counted right. Not sure about Redskins.) that run the 3-4 defense while there are 5-6 other teams besides us that’s will potentially be looking for a young talented NT in the draft. So if there is a NT that we value that much. Since we are the first of the 6-7 teams looking for a NT. Why not pick him up with the #5 pick if we can’t find a trade partner?

by ChiefsFan90s on Feb 19, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions

we would probably b hell of a defense right now

If we stuck to the 3 4. But oh well we really are a dominant nose tackle away from being pretty good. And today I woke up and I just have a feeeling guys if bradford falls to us at 5 I think we r taking him I just got a feeling if we passed on him it could b the biggest mistake in chief history the guy can slingit he is accurate I don’t know with a charlie weis offense this guy could b pretty good.

FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.

by sexassassin on Feb 19, 2010 10:15 AM CST via mobile reply actions

please no to a QB

Regardless of who the Chiefs pick at #5 overall, Whitlock will call it the worst pick in the history of the Chiefs. Heres to hoping that #5 pick runs Whitlock out of town.....

by jrcnc on Feb 19, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions

One Thing I Am Certain Of

The Chiefs will not be drafting a QB this year. I don’t think Bradford makes it past Washington or St. Louis anyway.

Moderator - Arrowhead Pride

by UCrawford on Feb 19, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions

Personally...

I don’t care what the hell Defense we run…as long as we get back to putting fear into the opposing team. We’ve made them laugh for too long now. It’s time to make them cry.

I trust the guys in charge (now) to make the right decisions.

by Scott B. on Feb 19, 2010 10:16 AM CST reply actions

running a 3-4 strictly or 4-3 strictly is selling yourself short

that is why i like what Crennel said that he is going to give several different looks out of both sets.

Regardless of who the Chiefs pick at #5 overall, Whitlock will call it the worst pick in the history of the Chiefs. Heres to hoping that #5 pick runs Whitlock out of town.....

by jrcnc on Feb 19, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions

That's why i say NT the first pick.

Dan Willians over MT Cody.

gordymule

by gordymule on Feb 19, 2010 10:18 AM CST reply actions

it's possible...

but, I don’t think there’s much difference between Williams and Cam Thomas and Terrel Troup… so, if I’m Pioli, I wait until round 2, see if Cody is there, and consider him IF they are convinced he can get in shape… or pass on Cody and grab Thomas or Troup in the 2nd or 3rd or wherever they fall

* KC now has the best coaching staff in the league
* Pioli will make at least one trade in the offseason, and 2 trades during the draft
* I'd prefer "lightning and lightning" as opposed to "lightning and thunder" when it comes to RBs
* 9-7 is a real possibility in 2010 IF the Chiefs get 4 new starters

by stagdsp on Feb 19, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions

I think that may happen

but I think we’d have to settle for Thomas or Troup.

If we pass on a NT at #5, and Williams goes to a 4-3 team in the middle-late 1st round, I could see Pittsburgh or San Diego using their first on Cody

Jammal Williams isn’t getting any younger, and it was pretty clear how awful SD’s defense was without him.

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Feb 19, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions

Really you aren't settling for Thomas

Cam Thomas and Mt. Cody are pretty even at the moment. I personally have Cam above Cody on my wishlist now after reading reports on both of them.

The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.

by ChiefsfanJon on Feb 19, 2010 2:46 PM CST up reply actions

I like Cody better, but not by that much

by stagdsp on Feb 19, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions

Dan makes sense at #5

NT’s hard to find and I give him the edge

But Cody or Cam may be there in round 2

He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is

by WarWolf on Feb 20, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions

I firmly believe that the 3-4, with lots of different looks is the best defense for this team

I’m tired of the “switch back to the 4-3” talk… that’s like trying to get back together with an ex-girlfriend on your wedding day… pretty much NEVER a good idea in reality.

This has been a rebuilding process, and the personnel have worked hard to make the switch to the 3-4 base defense. It’s a good defense, and most of the players have made a good transition.

Same with the OL… they have struggled transitioning to ZB… and I think it’s good for them… I would HATE to see them try to switch back druing trianing camp…

I don’t think it will happen… this organization is really trying to move forward with a long term plan in mind… quit looking back at what ‘could have been’ and get on board with the new zone blocking, 3-4 defense, Matt Cassel QB, Glen Dorsey at DE Chiefs.

by stagdsp on Feb 19, 2010 10:29 AM CST reply actions

There's nothing to be afraid of here...

We are sitting at #5 on the draft list. If we want a high draft pick at that position, we will draft one. If we can get a free agent before the draft (Wilfork) then we don’t have to spend our 1st rounder on that.

Either way, we will get a good NT this year. Development is the only real issue at this point. I would rather have a great free agent but, if we have to draft a guy, I have confidence that Romeo will make sure our D-line is ready to play…no matter what we end up doing.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Feb 19, 2010 10:34 AM CST reply actions

good point.

I’d personally like to use the top 5 pick on another position… but, Pioli does have options… see my post above, I think that KC will like Thomas, Troup or Cody as much as Williams… so they could afford to wait until the 2nd, and see how the board looks then

by stagdsp on Feb 19, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions

I agree Stag, but might gut keeps telling me they are in love with Williams for some reason.

If one of those NT have a huge combine he will be ours.

by Helmets on Feb 19, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions

I know what you mean.

If we can’t hustle a kick ass starter out of free agency, I’d bet we will get Williams as well. I don’t think Pioli was very impressed with Cody from what I have read.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Feb 19, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions

back in the day when pittsburg was one of the few teams running the 3-4, they would NEVER spend first round picks on the front 7

they always found “tweeners” that nobody else wanted in the 2nd, 3rd, even 7th rounds…..now these undersized college DEs are not concidered tweeners, but “the perfect 3-4 OLB”

by durst on Feb 19, 2010 10:46 AM CST reply actions

When you really think about it

Our 3-4 is a joke in its current state. We have what was supposedly a shut-down 4-3 DT (Dorsey) playing 3-4 end where his primary job is to occupy blockers. Yeah that seems like a good idea, lol? We have a nose tackle last year who was undersized and had no experience playing the position and was horrible. We have another 3-4 end (Jackson) with prototypical size but literally no impact last year. We played 4-5 LB’s last year who really shouldn’t even be on an NFL roster (Mays, Belcher, Studebaker, probably Demorrio Williams too). Wouldn’t it have made more sense to at least have some of the pieces in plac before going to the 3-4? It just doesn’t make any sense. And we’re screwed now in terms of going back b/c we already drafted Jackson.

by wilson123 on Feb 19, 2010 11:39 AM CST reply actions

I disagree...

Our defense is a joke….its doesn’t matter if we are lining up in a 4-3 or 3-4…it is pretty horrid across the board. Its not like Dorsey had any more of an impact as a 4-3 DT than he did at 3-4 DE…many would argue he had a better impact as a DE.

by groundedchevy on Feb 19, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions

And we’re screwed now in terms of going back b/c we already drafted Jackson.

I don’t know why you think this…what position did Jackson play at LSU?

LDE in a 4-3.

If we switched back to a 4-3, what position would Jackson play?

LDE

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Feb 19, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions

Well, not that I really and truly understand the fundamental differences in the two schemes,

but I began to worry about the 3-4 being bad for us after reading up on here about it. I hope Romeo just works his magic and gets it done whatever it is.

I feel that we may have made the 3-4 jump too soon as well, but I’m not sure. Dorsey has shown good improvement, but seriously, from what I read about the 3-4, it takes a specialized type player to thrive in a 3-4. And we do not have that specialized player in dorsey. That’s my summation from the input on here anyway.

I am so tired of there always being something else to worry about the Chiefs. Can’t we just get it right once? Just once in my lifetime?

by krayfish on Feb 19, 2010 11:55 AM CST reply actions

its really funny to see

All the “sky is falling” posts in this thread. Do you guys really think this changes anything? The bottom line is if you want a DT with a first round grade you draft him in the first round either way. If we use our 2a pick on a NT we will probably get the second one taken in the draft. Dan williams is probably the only one that goes in the first. In my opinion we should also use a 5th rounder on another NT and come out of the draft with 2. And don’t forget, we only need 1 out of 3 positions. We are set at the other two. There are NT’s out there, don’t worry.

by Chiefwanka on Feb 19, 2010 12:06 PM CST reply actions

As long as we get a NT that can start for the long-term here I don't care what round we select him.

by ChiefsFan90s on Feb 19, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions

N T a priority

We need to get a good N T not one that was just left over . we need NT, Safety, pass rusher . then we would have a decent defense .

CHIEFS fan 4 life

by Charles # 1 chiefs fan on Feb 19, 2010 12:50 PM CST reply actions

I dont think people realize

we switched to 3-4 last year to be ahead of the curve this year. Pioli & Co knew we were going to be getting Crennel so if we would have stayed in the 4-3 last year then everyone would have to be learning the 3-4 this year

by badassz1987 on Feb 19, 2010 12:57 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

Agree

by ChiefsFan90s on Feb 19, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions

Not as impactful this year, but

More and more college teams are converting to the 3-4, so going forward you’re going to see a higher percentage of guys coming out that are already well-versed in the style of play required by it.

Off the top of my head, this year Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Georgia, and I think maybe Florida have all announced they’re switching to a 3-4 based scheme. Alabama and Air Force have both run it for a few years and I’m sure there are others I am not aware of.

In the end, I think that will minimize the effect that John Clayton is predicting.

by alakan81 on Feb 19, 2010 2:42 PM CST via mobile reply actions

Yeah Air Force cranks out the NFL quality players :)

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 19, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions

Chad Hennings sez hai

Wild Blue Yonder FTW!!1

But, seriously, the only reason it is relevant is because it has worked very well for them. Their DC from the last few years, Tim DeRuyter, I think, is the guy Texas A&M hired this year to switch over to the 3-4.

by alakan81 on Feb 19, 2010 3:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions