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Around SBN: Please, Someone Make Bob Sapp Stop Already

Matt Cassel's Second Half Decline

From the FanPosts. Nice conversation topic and nice post schraggy. -Chris

During what is the probably the greatest lull in KC Chiefs football news, I was prepared to write a FanPost to argue that the Chiefs shouldn't draft a offensive lineman with Mel Kiper's 6th overall pick.  However, the more I started to look into things, I became more preoccupied with the question: 

Why didn't Matt Cassel get better? 

Star-divide

Columnists, analysts, coaches, and fans who want to impress their buddies toss around phrases similar to "good protection," "running game," "timing," "accuracy," and "arm strength" to describe the factors a QB needs in order be successful.  Obviously these are not the only factors and I'm not pretending to enumerate or elaborate on the qualities of a good QB.  What I'm struggling to figure out is why with a better running game, more time to establish WR timing, more time to understand the offense, and better protection, Matt Cassel's production declined. 

I know that many of guys and gals (there are at least enough female readers to lead to a KY ad for female sensation) are much better with stats that I am.  And I don't think that stats tell the whole story (ie:  if Jamaal Charles gets 15 or more carries the Chiefs are 3-4).  Nonetheless, I want a lay out a few things. 

First, Jamaal Charles saw a drastic spike in his carries beginning in week 10 against Oakland.  This means that Cassel had basically 7 games featuring 2.7 and 8 games featuring Charles.  In the weeks that Charles was featured, Cassel was sacked on average about 1.8 times a game or 15 times.  Without Charles, Cassel went down with the ball in his hand 27 times for an average of about 3.85.  With Jamaal Charles featured, the Chiefs won 3 out of 8 games.  With 2.7, the Chiefs only picked up one victory in 8 attempts.  With Jamaal Charles the Chiefs ran for 1170 yards in 220 attempts (5.18 average).  Without Jamaal Charles (as the feature back) the Chiefs managed only 769 yards on 219 attempts (3.5 average).  With Jamaal Charles, Cassel had a QB rating of 63.5.  Without Jamaal Charles, Cassel had a rating of 78.8.  What?   

So why didn't Cassel get better?  He had a better protection.  He had a more effective rushing attack.  He had more time in the offense.  He had more time to establish timing with his wide receivers. 

To be honest, I don't know.  I'm hoping some of you can contribute your thoughts on Cassel's late season decline.  Nonetheless, I have a few theories, but all of them are loaded with holes. 

First, no Dwayne Bowe for much of the second half.  I think this was important.  Bowe is a big body and a good possession receiver (assuming he catches the ball).  So without Bowe, Cassel had new wide receivers, which results in less time to establish a repertoire with his receivers.  However, the Chiefs were playing receiver roulette all year.  Whether it be Chambers, Copper, Wade, or Lance Long (can we please stop comparing every white slot receiver to Wes Welker), Cassel appeared to have a new target every week.  Therefore, it is hard to justify no Bowe as the reason for Cassel's declining second half.

Second, the QB Rating is a worthless statistically enigma. QB ratings are  worthless if the team is scoring touchdowns.  For example, Cassel was 15/30 against Pittsburgh for 248 2 TD and 1 Pick.  The result was about a 100 passer rating.  He goes 13/24 for 207 with 0 TD and 1 pick against Denver.  The result was a 65 passer rating.  He had a better completion percentage against Denver.  Nearly the same yards per pass average too.  The 45 point difference in QB ratings was only because the Chiefs scored by running the ball.  If we go by QB rating, his best game was his 14 for 18 for 90 yards against the Eagles.  A game that I have already suppressed from memory.  I have no recollection of that weekend.  Regardless, one could argue that QB ratings are a bad indicator. 

I've been a big supporter of Cassel.  I think it meant something when Josh McDaniels would have taken Cassel over Cutler.  I'm still a supporter of Cassel.  I still believe that we need an OT too.  However, his second half decline is disappointing.  Reason would seem to indicate that he should be getting better.  Maybe it is simply because he became more comfortable in the offense and took some more risks and it cost him.  Honestly though, I don't know why Cassel didn't get better.  I'm hoping that you guys can help.  

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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how about dropped balls by the receivers

I dont know what everyone was expecting from Cassel this year, was everyone expecting Manning or Brees numbers, I think he had an ok year for having new coaches, system, receivers etc.

by banshee_01 on Feb 11, 2010 9:51 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

Talking of Brees numbers

I’m thinking back to all those times when Cassel was forced to make short little passes and we were all complaining about not going long (like any of our receivers would even have caught a long bomb down field).

Then I think back to Brees equaling the record for most completions in the SB by stringing long drives together made up of, wait for it, little short passes. I don’t think I saw one long bomb completed. Short accurate passes, nice long drives.

Blame my wife!
Waiting until August 2010

by sir eccles on Feb 11, 2010 11:12 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe not the QB but the plan?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2010 11:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Then we need a plan like that.

Especially if it’ll work. That’s what cassel has done and if we can make something out if it, alright by me.

"Charles In Charge"

"Defense Wins Championships"

by KC Nate on Feb 12, 2010 7:14 AM CST up reply actions  

but for 50 dropped passes

a short passing game works.

Blame my wife!
Waiting until August 2010

by sir eccles on Feb 12, 2010 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Simple answer to this question

Our receivers suck ass and had over 50 dropped passes. How many of them were for first downs that would have extended drives, how many of them were for TDs. Add these drops back in and all of a sudden Cassels numbers wouldnt look too bad considering the lack of talent around him

by badassz1987 on Feb 11, 2010 9:52 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

I think there is more to it then the drops.

I’m not saying that the drops didn’t hurt—they really did. In fact, arguably a drop cost the Colt’s the Super Bowl—so I understand their signifiance. However, I am wondering why Cassel didn’t improve as the season progressed. The Chiefs were dropping balls all year—not just the second half of the season.

Consistency is only a value if you are not a screw up.

by schraggyj on Feb 11, 2010 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe

It began to be all about winning games. The first half of the season seemed about Ball-protection and not losing games. At some point the Chiefs (Cassel) had to make/take risks to win a DAMN game the interceptions went up. The coaches asked for Cassel to change his “Game”. In New England it wasn’t on Cassel to win the game. NE had a System. The Chiefs do not. AH Cassel has to step up and he tried, reason I like him, and the reason he needs another season or two while the pieces assemble around HIM. Charles is a NICE piece, don’t know if we have enough other pieces right now

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2010 11:09 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

agreed

You can talk about the whole team in this manner. Dorsey, Jackson, Hali, Williams, O’callagahan, Albert, Cottam/Pope, Carr, Page, Bowe, Chambers, Wade, Smith, Studebaker, Morgan, etc. All these players showed signs of greatness at times (some more than others) but they MUST get better.

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 7:31 AM CST up reply actions  

that's the point chevy...those "glimpses" you accurately described are the problem and the hope.

They give us hope that our guys “can” be great. But then they can’t stay consistent. So that’s the problem. You have to know what you’ve got to work with week in and week out. You can’t have Bradley snag an unbelievable side line pass and then forget where the marker is (TWICE)! This TEAM must get better as a team. Not just Cassel. Good points mate.

by krayfish on Feb 12, 2010 7:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I once wanted to live in denial

then i found out that denial is not a river in Egypt. Talk about dissapointment.,

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Feb 12, 2010 8:57 AM CST up reply actions  

kray! brother kray, hallelujah and amen, pass the mustard and crack open a cold one ... you've GOT it!

SOME … not all, but SOME of the horrible play at QB is on Cassel … YES! hallelujah, someone who understands, finally! a voice in the wilderness, the TRUTH shall set you free!!!

Cassel has a crappy arm, and the sooner everyone (including Weis) understands that the better off it gets … he does NOT have a strong enough arm to throw downfield and hit anything resembling something smaller than the broad side of a barn, much less a WR moving at “X” mph …

his short game MIGHT be servicable if he can learn to read defenses, pick up on blitzes before the guy is in his face and learns to dump the ball and/or throw it away if he has to (he’s terrible at holding the ball too long, and he refueses, it seems, to just throw it away … stats show that even an INT can be sometimes be better than taking multitudinous sacks … and those stats from New England, Brady vs Cassel vs Brady … are the same as Cassel in Kansas City: he holds the ball too long and takes too many sacks for losses) … pocket awareness? Cassel seems to have NONE

drops? yeah, drops are bad and are NOT on Cassel … UNLESS … those drops are because the QB tossed the ball to the INSIDE when the WR was turning (or supposed to turn) to the OUTSIDE, or if the ball is aimed at … what did I read, the WR’s helmet??? the back of his jersey? his knees? come on, people … half the so-called drops last year, or more, were NOT on the WRs but on the shoulders of Lurch himself

seriously … Cassel is, at BEST, an AVERAGE QB … that’s at best, and that’s not a super great thing, IMNSHO

love you, kray!


"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 12, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

i think you guys miss read all the post in forvor of cassel

no one is saying that he didn’t make mistakes, some really bad ones at that, or that he doesn’t deserve to be blamed for thoes mistakes. they are saying that most anti posts against him are unfair. take this one from your post for an example:

UNLESS…those drops are because the QB tossed the ball to the INSIDE when the WR was turning (or supposed to turn) to the OUTSIDE

think about that for a sec. if cassel throws to the inside and the reciever turns the oposit direction, that’s not a drop. that’s an incompletion. comments like this and the one i highlighted from Krays post and commented on below constenly get thrown around to show that cassel is some what to blame for the drops when in fact cassel is to blame for NONE of the drops. drops are just that, drops by the reciever. that means the QB did his job but the reciever failed to do his. cassel is to blame for every other incompletion, and there were plenty of them, other then the drops yet people consitently try to give him some of the blame.

yes cassel needs to get better. but i think he will. this discussion isn’t whether or not cassel is HoF material, but about why he had a decline in the second half. i personally don’t think he did. he still made plenty of mistakes in the second half, but overall i thought he played smarter. i think most of his mistakes in the second half came from lack of experience rather then lack of skill. and that to me is incuraging for the upcoming season. i still don’t expect him to be all pro next season, but he should be better.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Was Engram supposed to let the ball bounce off his helmet in the end zone? I doubt it.

just for the record, that’s an incompletion not a drop

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

obviously he was supposed to lay out and catch it =grinning=

… isn’t the rule that if it touches an offensive player, that same player can’t catch it unless a defender has touched it first? some silly rule … used to be, anyway

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 12, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I must agree

Cassel looked worse to me in the second half too. I am very concerned by this. I have been and still am a Cassel supporter, but he now has more to prove to me than he did when he stepped into the job. When the season started Cassel had the “look” of a composed, confident field general. His expressions, the way he carried himself and the way he interacted with his teammates on the field all seemed to come from a position of strength.

Somewhere near mid season though, he began to look tattered. My best guess is his confidence took a pounding because of the number of sacks and dropped passes. Once the midway point arrived with only one win in the bank, he knew that the team wasn’t going to the post season and maybe that was the final straw. Remember, this is a guy whose only campaign as a starter ended with 11 wins and a devastating(to him) miss of the playoffs.

Whatever it was, it was pretty evident. Couple that with the fact that he had no QB coach to continually massage his psyche and his lack of a big arm, and Cassel appeared mentally beaten down. Some of his throws in those last few games were really pathetic. I really hope that he can overcome it if this is truly what I was seeing. If he begins to win a few games only to be beat up in a really tough game and he continues to see-saw on the confidence teeter-totter, we could be in for some very heart breaking losses next year. I think we saw only two games(Baltimore, Steelers)where he was able to drive down the field to try and win the game(possibly three if you count the almost vs. the Cowboys). That is the type of QB we must have to win big games.

by Aiken_Drum on Feb 11, 2010 10:53 PM CST reply actions  

We do have that kind of QB his name is Matt Cassel

Cassel led us down the field 7 times to tie or take the lead, we won 2 of them and the DEFENSE lost us 5 of them. Washington, Pittsburgh, Oakland, Dallas, Buffalo if Chambers wouldnt have dropped the ball, Cleveland if the defense hadnt given up a 2 min game winning td drive, Cincinnati if the defense hadnt given up a 98 yd game winning td drive. So Cassel led us down the field for 2 wins and could/should have been 5 more wins had the DEFENSE not lost them for us, so we could have had 9 wins this year which would have been a pretty damn good year for us.

by badassz1987 on Feb 11, 2010 11:34 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I'll agree Cassel showed.......something

Cassel showed that he was inaccurate, lots of poorly thrown balls (a lot of those “drops” were on Cassel as much as the WR’s), does not have the proper arm strength to throw the deep ball, makes poor decisions when the game’s on the line.

If Cassel could have played a better season, the defense would have looked a little better.

I think we better take a RB at some time and 2 O-Linemen because Jamaal Charles won’t be able to take a 16 game pounding and rush for 2000 yards for more than a year or two, until Haley and Pioli figure out Cassel isn’t the answer.

I truely hope he makes me eat those words next season, but for some reason I don’t think he will.

by mcclanahanman on Feb 12, 2010 12:42 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah

Cause everybody knows when a ball hits you in the hands it’s the QB’s fault.

by The Insider on Feb 12, 2010 1:05 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

You're right if he would have thrown for 400 yards it would have stopped the opposing offense from running the ball down our throat

Matt Cassel is the reason opponents ran for 156 ypg against us its all his fault if only he could have came in at safety and stopped the run dang.

Come on blaming losses where the team is up with 2 min left on Cassel is just ignorant and shows an obvious bias against him. He does have arm strength for deep balls seeing how he always OVERTHREW the wide receiver what he lacks is timing and accuracy with said receivers. His poor decisions with the game on the line were normally out of necessity and obviously he is still learning his role on this team.

The first 3 picks of the draft will be defense. Pioli loves him some defense.

by ChiefsfanJon on Feb 12, 2010 6:06 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

exactly

his mistakes are mostly experience baised. people seem to forget that he is only a 2nd year QB. one of wich he played for a great team so he’s never had to carry a team before. so considering his massive lack of experience i think he’s held together very well. whether or not he’s ever going to be the great QB that we’ve always been looking for is debatable, but i’m giving up on him yet. it’s way too soon to tell.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I remembered that. I think a lot of people forget aaron rodgers was a backup behind brett

and he is amazing. Cassel backed up tom brady and he was on the greatest team in the NFL in NE. comeon. I’m not throwing him under the bus but he hasn’t proven anything since he’s been in KC except that he’s a tough (or stupid) S.O.B. We all want him to succeed. We arent’ going anywhere without him. So he needs to get it right.

Just saying, so far he has done nothing above mediocre since his arrival in KC.

by krayfish on Feb 12, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

i'll give you that.

my stance has always been that it’s somewhat understandable concidering his circumstances here. but just because i say it’s understandable doesn’t mean that he gets a free pass. i’m still in his camp because i think he did about as well as he could last year, but this year he needs to show us he’s the man.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think he gets a free pass

I think i might be defending him too much, but I don’t see a better option out there for us and I don’t see wasting a high draft pick this year on a QB. We need a solid team and then a QB. My main argument is that there is no possible way Croyle is a better solution.

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Well this is where I part ways and go back to leaf's corner

cause really I’m in both camps. Plain and simple, he’s our guy. We have no one to replace him with. Leaf is 100% correct. He does get a free pass. He’s not young but he is very inexperienced for a Qb that has been around as long as he has.

I don’t know really how anyone could accurately gauge his performance with this team last year. It’s impossible. That team was in complete shambles from day one. Complete shambles.

It was under construction every week of the regular season. He deserves another chance. He deserves one chance behind a real TEAM before he gets axed or replaced. It’s only right. But I think he did a poor job for us this last season and he has got to do what all professional gladiators are expected to do when the chips are down. SHOW UP!! Find a way. Whatever you have to do.

If it’s studying 8 hours of extra film a week – fuckin’ do it. If it’s working out an extra 15 hours a week and hiring Steve DeBerg out of your own pocket to tudor you – Then you fucking do that. You do anything necessary en route to becoming what you have accepted the responsiblity for becoming when you signed the contract. The fucking leader of this team. Period. End of story.

The fans were willing to pay you 60 million dollars in hopes that you would deliver for us. So do it. Just get it done. You got a free pass. Your cool. 2010 is a different story. You buy a house next door to DBowe’s if you have to so you can toss the ball to him on your evenings off. I don’t care what it takes.

It’s a huge load accepting the job of starting QB in the NFL. HUGE! And if you of your own free will aceept that challenge , it ’s on you to do whatever it takes to become that guy and fulfill your obligation to your fans.

by krayfish on Feb 13, 2010 8:14 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

recd

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain

by Chiefho on Feb 20, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

So

I guess Cassel was supposed to throw the ball and then run down and catch it for the receivers too and how is Cassel supposed to make the defense better? I also dont understand why people say he lacks arm strength, exactly how far do you want him to be able to throw the ball?

by badassz1987 on Feb 12, 2010 7:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Arm Strength

I don’t think it is so much arm strength as it is technique (I really have not Idea just my opinion). It appears he puts too much air on the deep balls and they kinda flutter (like a duck). Does he do this because he doesn’t have the arm strength, or does he just not understand how to throw the deep ball? After the guy has been in the league these many years shouldn’t he know?

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 7:24 AM CST up reply actions  

that's right Chevy. but you won't win this argument.

Although other teams and their fans can see it plain as day. It’s just hard when it’s your team. We all want to see what we want to see. And we’re good at it btw. That’s what makes us awesome fans. We believe no matter what.

but pretending it’s not a problem doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. He does have a serious issue with making good decisions in pressure situations. He does have a problem with arm strength. The underthrown ball to Chambers was designed to be caught on the run for a TD. Not for Chambers to stop and wait for it so he could get tackled. That’s only one example tho. He did that all season.

There’s no common sense where Cassel is concerned. He deserves another season to get it right. He does. He did it in NE and I think he can do much better here when the scenario here changes and becomes a little more QB friendly.

but for now your right. There’s no other argument to be made that has facts to back it up. the FACT is, he had a bad year. He didn’t play well. Any excuses won’t change that. What matters is going forward. Getting better this season. Otherwise he will training his replacement sooner than later.

by krayfish on Feb 12, 2010 8:04 AM CST up reply actions  

kray, I believe! yes!!! I believe!!!

I believe that Cassel is NOT the answer at QN, that’s what I believe

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 12, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

at QB even (damn keyboard full o' typos)

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 12, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Who do we replace him with?

I’d still rather have him then half the starting QBS in this league

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

remember how great it felt when we won back then

it was almost as if we hadn’t done it all season.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I think we need to draft a QB and let him learn under Cassel.

I don’t think another QB in the league is the answer right now. We need to do that anyway folks, he is 28 or 29 already. Geez. You guys seeem to forget he’s like the oldest rookie grandpa QB in the league.

That word rookie gets people all confused. He’s been around a long time. He’s not some newbie. He can’t be the long term answer, hes too old. Period.

he’s another trent green fill in QB. Either way we have to start thinking about training a rookie QB to take his place one day. I dont’ this year is the year to do it with the draft being so heavily top ended with defensive guys. But I do think by next year we have to draft a QB to take over.

by krayfish on Feb 12, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

i agree with that

some of the guys that will go in later rounds don’t look so bad and i wouldn’t mind taking them as a project, but if we don’t get one this year, then next year for sure.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

i'd say it was more mediocre then bad

some games were horrid while others decent

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Im no QB coach

but Cassel appears to have more a a pitchers throwing motion (especially on the release) than that of a true QB. He seemed to try to push the ball out of his hand especially when he had to put something extra on it.

If his arm is weak, maybe he should get a hold of Drew Brees. I remember hearing something on ESPN or NFLN that Brees spent an entire offseason working on his arm strength by building up his core.

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Feb 12, 2010 9:07 AM CST up reply actions  

I've noticed that same pushing motion

Which results in not letting the ball go at the height of his throwing motion, a slower delivery, and flatter release which can result in more balls being batted down at the line or not getting the ball over the shallow zones.

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius

by ArrowSpread on Feb 12, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he played baseball in college.

He even got drafted by an MLB team if I remember correctly.

by The Insider on Feb 12, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Yea

I think i heard something about him coming from a family of pitchers. not sure though.

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Feb 12, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

But he also didn't lead us down the field when he could have. If he doesn't underthrow Chambers

by a mile and a half, we score. Then what happens? It’s the Chiefs. More times than not, we could have scored but did not because Cassel could not get his job done right. I’m not saying he didn’t put together some drives. But the man needs a lot of work. He is 28 years old. He doesn’t have years to learn and grow into the position. He has to get it “NOW”.

He’ll be in a nursing home by the time he gets it at this rate. I hope he gets it this season. I promise you it won’t matter what we say if he can’t. Haley was directly responsible DIRECTLY responsible for the QB controversy in Arizona.

He didn’t play favorites with Warner just because Warner was the big name and had the contract. He started their season out by flip flopping QB’s repeatedly until the guy who wanted it most stepped up and took it. If Cassel can’t get it going this year. He will be a handsomely paid trainer for his replacement.

by krayfish on Feb 12, 2010 7:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok u admitted he got it in new England a few comments ago but then commented he may be in a nursing home before he gets it… The kid can play… Eleven wins is big… Our team isn’t good… He proved in a well laid out environment he can win. He isn’t manning but with the right pieces he can help the cueifs win some games.

by Chieffan_Toby on Feb 12, 2010 9:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Damn I phone typos. Cueifs = chiefs :)

by Chieffan_Toby on Feb 12, 2010 9:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Toby, Cassel didn't "get it" in New England ... he got a kickazz team around him in New England

compare sacks in New England the year BEFORE Cassel, and then Cassel’s year, and then again last year (Brady, Cassel, Brady) and what do you see? … then compare those same stats to Cassel here in KC and what do you see?

go ahead, look it all up, I’ll wait …

done? good … and yes, you’re right … with Brady as QB the Pats had a MUCH lower sack rate both the year before AND after Cassel … and his sack totals in New England were about the same as in KC … hmmmm! the difference in those years is that in NE Cassel had a team with a very good supporting cast all around him, on offense to cover for his mistakes, and defense, to stop the other team because the offense was simply NOT as good with Cassel as with Brady … period

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 12, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Cassel

Didn’t Cassel put up 400 yard passing and 60 yards rushing in a single game for NE?

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think that's an invalid point badassz. I just dont' like the extremist

who paint him into being some superman when he’s an unproven QB by any NFL standards. Plenty of 1 hit wonders had better stats than Cassel beore they fell away.

by krayfish on Feb 12, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

No he only won 3 superbowls and set a single season scoring and TD record that

has never been done in 50 years of the NFL’s existence. Your right. Good point. I’m shocked Hoodie even let him go. He should have cut Brady and kept Cassel. Wonder why he didn’t care about him going for a 2nd round pick? Hmmm

You can’t compare the two QB’s ok? Getting a 400 yrd passing game is nothing to compare to Brady’s illustrious career. You just lost your cred’s man.

by krayfish on Feb 12, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

i don't think he was trying to compare the two

more saying that cassel at times appeared to have it.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Leaf is right

The 400 yard game was the only one I really watched of Cassel prior to him being a Chief. I was impressed with his performance…the jets Defense wasn’t too shabby that year either

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Very interesting

put a pic of Sgt Schultz here

Rec

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2010 11:01 PM CST reply actions  

That was Col. Klink wasn't it?

Good post schraggyj. rec’d.

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain

by Chiefho on Feb 12, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Why does AP not rec a fine post

maybe we all want a 3 sentence mock draft?
maybe a poorly written What if?

Dammit rec a nice post or we won’t have anything to read!

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2010 11:17 PM CST reply actions  

consider it done

Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"

by KCporkchop on Feb 11, 2010 11:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I really think

that we will see drastic improvement in Cassel with the addition of Charlie Weis as OC. He has a reputation for getting the most out of his players and I’m sure he will try and highlight Cassel’s strengths within the offense.

oh, and Rec’d

by WtexKC on Feb 11, 2010 11:36 PM CST reply actions  

I'll give him a pass (for now) because of all the crap he had to go through

The year starts off with him injured right when Chan was fired and Haley was putting in his system. Then his o-line gets the poor guy pounded into the ground during the first 8 games while the front office plays musical chairs with his WRs. By the time the line and running game together we had a pile of losses racked up and he was starting to force things to make a play. The guy had a coach that was pretty demanding and fans that were at times less then supportive. I think the fact that he survived physically and mentally is a good sign. Like others have said, a stable off season, better WRs, and Weis as his OC/QB coach should do wonders.

Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"

by KCporkchop on Feb 11, 2010 11:39 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

I agree tho Porkchop. I will give him a pass for now too. He deserves that much.

This was a lot to deal with for sure. Coming here to this disaster couldn’t have been easy. So I like you and all the rest hope he gets it right this season. But he’s too old, and we’re too young to hold on to any player for sentimental reasons.

He has to get it now or never.

by krayfish on Feb 12, 2010 7:30 AM CST up reply actions  

i agree he's getting too old to be waited on

he needs to show good improvment this year or we really need to start looking else where for our QB of the future.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

i wonder if it wasnt a result of cassel's comfort zone on the team

not that i think he feels “uncomfortable”, but i’ve heard a number of times, from haley himself as well as matt, that he was sort of left to fend for himself alot, and most of the time answer his own questions too. now, there were reasons for this i think. i think haley was testing cassel’s mental resolve. wanted to see what he was made of… what he would do if he was pushed into a corner. and we saw that this year, a number of times. saw matt get frustrated about the boos at arrowhead, when we probably had no clue how difficult his situation was. we also saw how excited he got when they were able to extend drives at key times and the such.

this may have more to do with scheming than we think. maybe cassel just didnt have the correct environment to flourish last year? with arguably no QB coach or OC to turn to? he might this year with weis

if rhymes were valiums, i'd be comfortably numb

by Chris Sembower on Feb 12, 2010 2:08 AM CST reply actions  

wanted to see what he was made of… what he would do if he was pushed into a corner.

interesting thought. that sound like something haley would do. especially when you concider the fact that cassel is getting old, if haley was going to have any chance of turning cassel into a beast than he was going to have to force the hand…and quick. i like that theory.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe because the team wasn’t going to have a winning season so they took more shots. I am not one to look at the past but the future.

by ellis82 on Feb 12, 2010 4:32 AM CST reply actions  

Say what you want about Cassel...

Drink your kool aid and what not….but Cassel looked like a very mediocre QB at best. Yes there were way too many drops, but he did pull off some J-Hut like perfotmances and overall looked average or below average most of the year. Is there still hope? I think there is hope Cassel will end up being a decent QB, but he’ll never be an elite QB IMO…..Charlie Weiss prove me wronge, please.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 12, 2010 8:30 AM CST reply actions  

Ill take a decent QB

Who ever said that Cassel was going to be an elite QB? If you were expecting this then maybe you should temper said expectations.

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Feb 12, 2010 9:12 AM CST up reply actions  

I never thought a career backup was going to be an elite QB...

I suppose some on AP did, and maybe some still do…..It’s pretty obvious he isn’t going to be a great QB…If last year turns into status quo for Cassel, he’ll be considered a below average QB. I believe he will have a better year, as the Chiefs will (hopefully) be a better team next year (better pass protection, less drops, better RB play with a full season of JC, etc.)

Cassel himself needs to improve, not just the variables around him for this team to be sucessful.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 12, 2010 9:27 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

if u don't then you need to up your attitude man. That's the same ol same ol attitude that makes me sick

I’m tired of us settling for decent players. Decent players make decent teams. Elite players make teams that win SB’s

by krayfish on Feb 12, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Hey im not saying i don't want him to become elite

I just dont think he is that guy. Im not saying he can’t be a average to good QB and that will be ok. A lot of teams have won a SB with an average to good QB.

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Feb 12, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Trent Dilfer

would like a word with you.

by The Insider on Feb 12, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats true

but tell me when we had the chance to get a Manning. Cassel isn’t one of those guys. His ceiling is probably above average. The only way to get a guy like Manning is to draft one in the top 5 so i wouldn’t be against drafting a top flight QB and letting him ride the pine behind Cassel for a couple seasons.

Ill probably get blasted for saying that.

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Feb 12, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you

but I’m not hte biggest fan of Clausen or Bradford….maybe next year?

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

my wife's family are huge OU fans

so i’ve had the opertunity to see bradford play several times and let me say that guy has got talent. i’m not saying we should draft him, but if we didn’t have cassel he’d be at the top of my list.

….oh and just for all you bloody lovers of that disgrace of a team called kansas…..GO MIZZOU :p

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

+1111

What is rock chaulk any way

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 11:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Google "Missouri final four appearances"

It’ll ask you if you meant Kansas….since Missouri has never been to a final four…ha

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 13, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Why in Columbia do they only play 14 holes of golf?

Because they can never make it to the final four!

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Feb 13, 2010 5:41 PM CST up reply actions  

haha

What does Rock Chalk mean? We’ll tell ya when you make the fial four.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 13, 2010 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Kaching

Maybe soon with Anderson :)

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 13, 2010 8:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with that notion just not this year...

I mean Cassel is still pretty young, at least 5 or 6 prime years left, if he pans out. But at this point Cassel has a lot to learn about being a QB, and I hope he figures it out, but until he does, I don’t think he should be mentoring the Chiefs next QB. Maybe bringing in a Jeff Garcia wouldn’t be a bad idea…or better yet Mark Brunell to help Cassel along.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 12, 2010 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

wel it's not impossible paratrooper...it won't happen this year and it shouldn't

but it will happen that we will go after a franchise QB in the draft at some point once the rookie salary cap is in place. There’ s no possibility that with Cassel and his 60 million dollars on our team that Pioli will draft a high cost QB while there’s no cap in place. No way. Cassel will do fine until we can get one for cheap. We need that money to buy some FA’s.

But just because it’s difficult to find a stellar QB like Mannning does not mean it’s impossible, and it certainly should never be the crutch we as fans use to accept an average QB here. If you aren’t going to expect great things, then you won’t get them. You’ll get what you want.

If you think like that then your not expecting enough from your team and it’s ownership. We are just used to not making the SB. We’re almost willing to make deals that we’ll be ok as long as we can start competing again. Bullshit.
No matter how hard it is to find a peyton manning or drew brees, it can be done and you should expect it to get done. That’s their job. that’s why they get paid to go scout and find that talent.

by krayfish on Feb 13, 2010 8:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Rookie salary cap...

I can’t believe every year we have a new “highest paid Chief ever” and it’s some young punk that’s never played a down in his life (in the NFL) and may not even pan out. Rookies getting bigger contracts than proven stars is absurd. Iv’e said it several times, but Glen Dorsey and Tyson Jackson both make more than what JA was asking for….pathetic.

Please kray, make there be a rookie salary cap.

Don't Fuccop Succop

by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 13, 2010 5:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm on it! I'll have my imaginary friend (he's Scott Pioli's secret advisor) talk to Goodell and get that done.

I remember the last time he spoke to Goodell… (giggles) it was last yea….OMG I almost forgot……theres this TOTALLLLLLLY awesome sale at the gap right now….40% off and such…OH I gotta go, the cops are here.

by krayfish on Feb 14, 2010 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

i agree that he'll most likely not be elite

but i think it’s still too early to tell exactly what kind of QB he’ll be in a few years time.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought he was terrible in every game except the last one....

get rid of him. He’s inaccurate and just doesn’t have the awareness or pocket presence, makes poor decisions, not enough street ball in him to be great. The only good thing about him is, he can take a beating, but that’s not enough.

Brodie's better than Cassel

by choirboy on Feb 12, 2010 8:56 AM CST reply actions  

Replace him with who?

Croyle is not a better option…do you even remember watching him play? I’m pretty sure I’d rather have Jamarcus Russell…ok that is going a bit far but not very far

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 9:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Croyle is a better option, IMNSHO, in pretty much every category I can think of ...

pocket presence, decision making, reading defense, arm strength, accuracy on long passes, accuracy on short passes …

so what does that leave Cassel as being “the best option” at … handing off to Jamaal Charles? I’ll take Croyle any day over Cassel …

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 12, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

It doesnt matter what Croyle can or can't do better than Cassel.

Croyle can’t stay healthy and he has never won a game in the NFL.

Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.

by paratrooper on Feb 12, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Go back and watch

the final drive of the first game against Baltimore and then tell me that Croyle has all those things. With the game on the line and the ball in his hands he folded up like a cheap card table, we didnt gain a single yard I believe and we turned the ball over on downs. And again how many games has he won as a starter? As I said above Cassel led us 7 times in the 4th quarter to either tie or take the lead and the DEFENSE lost us 5 of those games.

by badassz1987 on Feb 12, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

yeah, and the next several games with Cassel were like all wins, huh?

oh, wait …

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 12, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

you asked what cassel does better then croyle

i think they are trying to say that he has better poise under pressure. two things i think that cassel does absolutely head and shoulders over croyle is his toughness ( i know it’s a give me) and his poise under pressure. sure he wasn’t great in every pressure situation, but neither are all of croyles deep passes accurate. as cassel’s experience grows, so will his poise. sure cassel has some techincal flaws that he needs to work on, but i honestly believe he has the ability to fix them. but as i agreed with kray a few posts back, he’s getting old so if doesn’t show this year that these problems are going to be fixed, then we need to move on.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

You said

that Croyle has all those attributes over Cassel, which I completely disagree, and I was simply providing proof that shows that he isnt better than Cassel. But yes we did lose the first 4 games that Cassel started, all lost because of the DEFENSE. 2 of those games the defense gave up 27 and 34 points and the other 2 games Cassel led us down in the 4th quarter for the go ahead scores and the defense lost both games for us.

by badassz1987 on Feb 12, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I would disagree

There are only two categories Croyle is better at….Arm Strength and getting hurt. …I’ve watched ever game Croyle has played for the Chiefs and I never thought we was accurate. When Thigpen comes in and is more accurate than Croyle you know there is a problem with Croyle. How can you say he is more accurate in long passes? What is is longest pass? How many has he actually made? I can only think of 1 long ball he made and that was more a amazing catch for Bowe. I can think of quite a few he missed tho.

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 12:27 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Sorry had to say something about

How can you say he has better pocket presence? Brodie looks lost out there…please back up your argument with some facts and not just your dreams. On top of that I don’t remember a game Croyle has ever thrown over 200 yards. I could be wrong but if I am it only happened once or twice. I’d rather have Orton than Croyle

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

and you think Matt "Deer In The Headlight" Cassel HAS it?

please …

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 12, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I never said that

I just said he is the best option available other than drafting a QB, and I think we can all agree there are much greater holes than QB. And a person has to like Cassel’s fighting and leadership skills. He has looked on good on many game winning drives (even if the defense couldn’t stop them the last time) and he fights through pain to play. I have seen him step up in the pocket many times and deliver a ball just to get creamed and stand up and do it again. I can’t remember which game but the announcers said he had been hit on like 90% of his passes. I promise you Croyle would not have made it through that game, but Cassel keeps stepping back up.

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Given Croyle's major injury history at every level of play

Behind our line, we’d need to analyze dental records to identify the bloody heap about the bottom of the pile.

That was the Cowboy game, I believe.

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius

by ArrowSpread on Feb 12, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Correction: at* the bottom of the pile

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius

by ArrowSpread on Feb 12, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Croyle needs to develop a lil swagger and some leadership

Or maybe he has and we just haven’t seen it yet.

He also needs to learn how to take a hit better — maybe go to the Manning School of Sack Avoidance. In other words, just fall and play dead.

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius

by ArrowSpread on Feb 12, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

How about the obvious

During his good year in NE he had a QB coach to help point out when he was doing things wrong and when he missed things. This last year he had a head coach/offensive co-ordinator/QB coach. How much time do you think Haley was able to spend with his QB to help him with his game?

by Tigkoly on Feb 12, 2010 9:30 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

if he wanted...

he could have hired a qb coach of his own…its not like he couldn’t afford it.

by MountainManMike on Feb 14, 2010 1:48 AM CST up reply actions  

How do you know?

Was anyone left out there at that point that was an above average QB coach? Not only being above average but teach the same philosophy that Todd Haley wanted? This isn’t madden where you have unlimited coaches to choose from. This is real life….

by groundedchevy on Feb 14, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

My QB Matt Cassel

Ankle , Knee & concussions can have a negative affect on your accuracy ! 2010 season has every indication the offensive supporting cast will improve ;so will The Kansas City Chiefs footbal team ! Matt Cassel will improve in 2010 ! Ask { The broncos } ?

by 65tosspowertrap on Feb 12, 2010 9:43 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Seems simple, to me

He had no reason to trust his line OR his receivers. Even WHEN the line provided better protection, he played as if he fully expected to get smashed by being hesitant and reacting to pressure that wasn’t there.

There really is no reason to rehash the OLine woes. A complete lack of protection can even break down the confidence of the greatest of QBs. It turned Cassel into a nervous wreck in the “pocket”.

The hesitance and uncertainty is more a product of not being able to trust his receivers and/or not being on the same page as his receivers. Don’t have the numbers, but there were plenty of times I saw him pump-fake to a receiver while he was being pressured, but the receiver wasn’t reading the same hot read that he was. Couple that with the dropsies and that’s the product you get.

As I’m sure it has been said countless times (I haven’t read the comments), there’s been zero continuity with receivers, linemen, playbooks… it’s been a revolving door and nothing has been consistent.

Oh, did I mention that we didn’t even have a QB coach? Yea, Cassel suffered through a lot of shit.

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius

by ArrowSpread on Feb 12, 2010 9:56 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

I believe I am, yes

Though, I think that goes without saying around here.

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius

by ArrowSpread on Feb 12, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

oh come on man

are we going to start haley bashing now. i don’t think haley ever thought that he could do it all himself, more that he felt he had to.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

I think this off season moves prove that he didn’t think he could do it all

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

More offense more problems

Kinda like more money more problems. Just more opportunities to mess up for Cassel. Trust me, I’d be the first one to bash Matt, in fact I think I was. But if I were a betting man I’d put money on the fact that we had more offensive plays when JC was picking up first downs and our running game was actually gaining yards.

by CalCapone on Feb 12, 2010 10:22 AM CST reply actions  

Harping on underthrown balls is overrated

How many times are receivers hit perfectly in stride over the top/ over theshoulder. There is a reason those tend to be top 10 highlight videos.

Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson,Steve Smith, Anquan Boldin, Wes Welker, Marques Colston etc. All of the top receivers in the NFL are masters at creating seperation. When there is none, then the truly great ones get in position ie stop and come back to the ball and catch it at its highest point. How many replays of that did we see of that this year?

The Miles Austins and Sidney Rice’s make there money by yards after the catch. Typically catching it in space and then making a move for those extra yards.

Now against the Chiefs this year, maybe we saw more than our fair share of over the top plays(thanks Mike Brown & Co). But in my belief for the majority of the league it is not where the real offensive production is made. If it was then guys like perenial disappointing underachievers Devery Henderson would be the all stars.

by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Feb 12, 2010 11:13 AM CST reply actions  

Cassel appeared to have a new target every week. Therefore, it is hard to justify no Bowe as the reason for Cassel’s declining second half

That is exactly why you can blame no Bowe, Cassel never got into a good rhythm with his revolving door at the receiver position… And I could be wrong but I think the drops sky rocketed when Bowe was out.

Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.

by averagegatsby on Feb 12, 2010 12:02 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

There is no end,

no end to statistical anomalies, inconsistent play, inconsistent play(ers), swoons, slumps and everything else I can’t think of when your offense basically has zero playmakers. Jammal Charles gave us a spark and that’s a credit to their hard work at the Chiefs. But without playmakers your screwed. Very few offenses in the league can churn out 80 yard drives for touchdowns and win games without getting some big chunks of it once in a while.

THe jury is still out on Matt Cassel. at this point, other than drafting a QB, who else could the Chiefs get for Charley Weis to start with? Not many options, actually.

by tenacious rdc on Feb 12, 2010 12:54 PM CST reply actions  

Cassel has proven

he can win with a good supporting cast. Obviously, no QB wins alone. Improve the overall quality of the offense and Cassel will get better.

by chief66 on Feb 12, 2010 1:08 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

I just think

there was a reason he was a backup for the last 8 years, in the pros its understandable because he was behind Brady but in college he had a couple opportunities to start if i remember correctly and the guys that he backed up in college are mediocre pros at best

by RamX21 on Feb 12, 2010 1:48 PM CST reply actions  

Carson Palmer and Matt Lienhart?

I would talk Palmer over almost any QB in the league except for the obvious few. Matt has the physical attributes to be a beast of a QB. He just didn’t put the intangabiles together for the NFL.

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Physical attributes

has equated to nothing so far. He made the Cardinals have to go with an aging veteran who at the time was considered on the last legs of his career. As for Palmer, he had I think 2 good years and instead of improving he seems to be regressing.

by RamX21 on Feb 12, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Right...

At a college level physical attributes mean a lot more than in the NFL…was my point…and we do have to remember Palmer plays for a team that picked up 2.7

by groundedchevy on Feb 12, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

very very true.

We’ll see if Lienhart has matured enough to finally play the pro game, i was a fan of his coming out of college, just hasn’t done anything. There was a few problems with Cassel that jumped out at me over the season. One was his lack of zip on the ball when he throws it long, but i saw a couple plays where he rifled the ball 35yds and i was like where did that come from?? It all comes down to comfort in the pocket, which he has none of

by RamX21 on Feb 12, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

palmer seem to have a good year this past year

or at least my fastacy team thought so.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

he threw for about 100 more yards than Cassel, a few less picks a few more TD’s, nothing spectacular. Solid year, not on the elite qb level.

by RamX21 on Feb 12, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

true he's not going to the HoF

but he’s still a good QB.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

and anyone that knows anything about college ball

knows that pete caroll put lienhart ahead cassel not because he was the better QB but because he wanted HIS QB at the helm. cassel was his red headed step child.

Seriously mates, when have I ever been sarcastic?

Oh and in case you were wondering, that hug offer is still there when you are ready UC :p

by Leaf on Feb 12, 2010 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

It's been noted before that Cassel was basically done in at USC by a coaching change.

He was recruited by Pete Carroll’s predecessor, and when Palmer was gone, Cassel and Leinart (Carroll’s recruit) got their opportunity. Carroll eventually more or less flipped a coin, and Cassell lost.

by DanielUM on Feb 12, 2010 7:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Dang

Looks like I started a tidal wave! I do believe in Cassel’s ability. I was only stating the fact that he looked like he was struggling mentally during the last half of the season. He had a lot of reasons to do that so my hope is that he will overcome that problem as the team improves. He made some GREAT throws to Bowe in the early part of the season and then he made some really bad throws later on. I guess the consistency was the problem. I am still a supporter, I just hope he proves that he really is ’the guy".

by Aiken_Drum on Feb 12, 2010 7:43 PM CST reply actions  

One more 2 cents

This has been alluded to already, but look at the total sacks this year. Cassel took a licking and kept on ticking. He is obviously durable and determined. Croyle has the best arm, but you hit him a couple of times, and he is out for 4 weeks with something. Cassel’s durability alone is worth its weight in diamonds. Plus he is a leader. But keep changing offensive philosophies on him all season, keep changing receivers, take away his OC right before the season starts, and what can anyone expect. When you get hit and go down enough times, and your team has no shot at the playoffs, the mentality unconsciously starts shifting to self-preservation. You start taking less time with your reads and throwing the ball away more often to avoid sacks. Would his sacks total really have declined that much if he hadn’t thrown it away so much? Those things are coached, but they kill your QB rating. Perhaps he got rid of it faster than he needed to out of unconscious fear of pain or injury. Perhaps he got rid of it faster consciously to avoid a sack and the lost yards and was coached to do so. The success of a potentially successful QB depends on his line more than anything else. Give him a solid line, and OC, some timing with consistent receivers, and a scheme that is successful, and less need to play catch up, and then we can evaluate Cassel – not one minute before.

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

- Groucho Marx

by Bilyous on Feb 12, 2010 8:02 PM CST reply actions  

Welcome to AP

Have you read AP for awhile?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2010 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I couldn't disagree more with your point

about Cassel getting rid of the ball too fast. The take on him all year was that he was holding onto it too long. I agree with you that Cassel is tough. He was sacked more times in NE than he was in KC last year so he is no rookie when it comes to pulling grass out of his facemask. He does hold the ball for a long time quite often and I personally like that. How many times have you seen Favre duck a tackler and run around in the backfield and make a play?

You are 100% correct when you say that if he had a better line he would be more successful. When Cassel rushed his throws it was because he saw an opening. The receivers couldn’t find their buns with both hands last year and that includes running patterns. Bowe truly was the best at the timing thing with Cassel and several times in early games they showed how it needs to be done. Our WRs were at least as big a part of the problem as the o-line and I think that it all fits under one roof. A brand new offense. With a season under their belt, ALL offensive players should show improvement next year. Chambers success was created by his athletic ability and the fact that he came from a team that throws the ball downfield. Let’s hope we see some more of that next year.

by Aiken_Drum on Feb 14, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

This post took some balls

I like it.

I think Cassel is one tough, smart SOB. He’s a guy with the talent to be an effective starter but never quite had the pedigre. He had a great audition behind an incredible team in New England and he’s making the most of it here in KC. We’re a team that’s going in the right direction and he’s going to be the right man in the right place and I think he knows it. When it’s all said and done, for the money, we’re all likely to think he was a good deal. We’ll be proud to call him a Chief.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Feb 13, 2010 1:01 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

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