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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Better Know the Jacksonville Jaguars: Ask Big Cat Country

What's up Chiefs fans

 

I'm John, one of the editors of SBN's Jacksonville Jaguar blog Big Cat Country. Yeah, last night wasn't the greatest. That's all I got. Despite the Jags and Chiefs not being divisional rivals, it does seem like you guys end up on the schedule quite often. I'm sure Arrowhead will be rocking.  If you have any questions regarding the Jaguars or the upcoming game, shoot

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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thanks for the post

rec it up, folks!

It's all about the gameplan

by stagdsp on Oct 19, 2010 2:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Sooooo...

How are you feeling about Trent’s performance last night?

Hey...How'd everyone get in my room?

by SFLChief on Oct 19, 2010 2:24 PM CDT reply actions  

All things considered, he didn’t do any worse than Garrard, particularly when you consider http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2010/10/19/1760932/trent-edwards-was-running-plays-hed-only-seen-on-paper

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Big Cat Country, The #1 Jaguars blog on the net

by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 19, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

David

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

That says a lot about our QB.

Seems everyone in the league already knew what we are starting to realize (although I will say Cassel played well on the weekend, just would like to see it when the other teams puts defensive backs in the game.)

by saskwatch on Oct 19, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’ll take my chances in next year’s draft

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Big Cat Country, The #1 Jaguars blog on the net

by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 19, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats what we're saying.

One of the founding members of The Super Duper Matt Cassel Fanclub
Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!
We all have the right to our own opinions, its just that mine are right.

by nateforchiefs on Oct 19, 2010 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll take Cassel's

7:3 TD to Int ratio over Garrard’s 9:7

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 19, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

He was 90 before the Titans game

In both 3 wins his ratings were above 122.5!

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 20, 2010 4:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

So you're saying...

That you guys live and die with your QB’s performance a little?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 20, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it's more like

Garrard is more sensitive to how the rest of the team is playing then some other QB’s. If the OL is sucking balls, he usually doesn’t have a good day. Though he can at times play fairly well, under less then stellar circumstances.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

what?

mjd isn’t as good? i think he’s awesome

by dt4ever on Oct 20, 2010 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, no I definitely love MJD

He’s just been facing 8 or 9 in the box, he hasn’t been healthy and he doesn’t have the same offensive line that the Chiefs do.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 20, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Chiefs

OL inside, is better than the Jag’s. And I think your scheme is a better fit for today’s game too.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the post John- and Rec it up!

What do you guys offer on Defense for our running backs?

by Bassbustin on Oct 19, 2010 2:32 PM CDT reply actions  

If the Chiefs try to run the ball they have the worst coaches in the NFL. The Titans had Chris Johnson and they still threw it all over the field with Vince Young and Kerry Collins of all people.

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Big Cat Country, The #1 Jaguars blog on the net

by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 19, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm!

So the strongest part of the Chiefs offense has no reason to go against your guys? Interesting!

by Bassbustin on Oct 19, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

True But...

You may be right that they (Young and Collins) threw all over the place but why change what works so well. We ran for 228 yds against the #5 (I think it was) rush D. They are now #12 if you go by yds per carry.

by tlback20 on Oct 19, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

We did that to SF too

good running defenses get their reputations ruined by us :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 20, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

can almost guarantee

we are going to run more than pass. we are a run first team and so far from two supposed top 5 rushing defenses that we’ve faced we have racked over 200 yards on them.

Dexter McCluster for Rookie of the Year
2011 Chiefs Record Prediction: 8-8
____________________________

CHIEFS WILL
BELIEVE, BELIEVE, BELIEVE!

by KC Nate on Oct 19, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

You'd think that but the Chiefs have pretty much run at will on all their opponents.

And besides… The Titans threw for 171 and ran for 153. They didn’t throw all over. They ran the ball effectively and killed the Jags with sort to intermediate passes that moved the chains and ate up clock.

The Chiefs are a very similarly built team to the Titans. I hope it’s a better game on Sunday, but I think the Chiefs will win this. It’ll be good payback for last year :)

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 19, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quite frankly

If KC can actually pass all over Jacksonville we SHOULDN’T be running as much. Yeah, yeah, I know we are a run first team, but if it’s not necessary then why not use the game to establish the passing game & get that going for later in the year….and at the same time save some wear on the RBs so they are fresh down the stretch.

Predictions:
This year IS be better.
oh, and...
Todd Haley doesn't give a damn about your fantasy team.

by jmcgoblue on Oct 20, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quarterback

How do you feel about your quarterback situation if Garrard isn’t ready to go? How will Trent Edwards do if he plays vs. our secondary, including two talented corners in Flowers and Carr and a talented duo of safeties?

Dexter McCluster for Rookie of the Year
2011 Chiefs Record Prediction: 8-8
____________________________

CHIEFS WILL
BELIEVE, BELIEVE, BELIEVE!

by KC Nate on Oct 19, 2010 2:41 PM CDT reply actions  

Considering Edwards was executing plays he only saw on paper and never in practice, I think he’ll be manageable. No illusions either is a game breaker.

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Big Cat Country, The #1 Jaguars blog on the net

by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 19, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

This was brought us already but

How do you plan on stopping our #1 ranked rushing attack? who would run better against your D, Jones or Charles?

When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.

Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.

CHIEFS WILL!

by NJChieffan16 on Oct 19, 2010 2:42 PM CDT reply actions  

brought up*

When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.

Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.

CHIEFS WILL!

by NJChieffan16 on Oct 19, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good question

I’d be curious to hear who this matchup may be better suited for.

by Joel Thorman on Oct 19, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t think you guys get just how bad the Jaguars pass defense is. If you watched MNF, that was about par for the year. I expect the Chiefs to throw early and often.

As far as stopping the run, the Jags D-line has been pretty solid. The run defense hasn’t been much of a problem. Take away the garbage TD for Chris Johnson and he had about 3 yards per carry.

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by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 19, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

You expect the Chiefs to throw early and often?

Sorry but it won’t happen. People said the same thing when we faced the DEAD LAST ranked pass defense of Houston. What did we do? Came out and ran for over 200 yards on their 5th ranked run defense. Chiefs, as always, will come out running the ball and throw some passes like normal. Their game plan is simple, run first, pass second.

Dexter McCluster for Rookie of the Year
2011 Chiefs Record Prediction: 8-8
____________________________

CHIEFS WILL
BELIEVE, BELIEVE, BELIEVE!

by KC Nate on Oct 19, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but to keep the chains moving, KC passed as needed, and were successful.

I’d look for much the same this go-round. They HAVE to make the key completions, or at least enough of them, to keep the chains moving.

by hmills110 on Oct 22, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

But Ringer had a 4.2 ypc average. Even without CJ's 35 yard run they still put up 120 rushing yards on you.

And sorry man… but I’m not buying that it was a garbage time TD that could be taken away. If the Jags defense had any respect for itself they shouldn’t have let Johnson get that TD when they KNEW that the Titans were running the ball to kill the clock. If nothing else it tells more about their rushing D… and it doesn’t look good. As of now the Jags are tied with the 49ers for rushing defense at 19th… and we ran for 200 yards on them. At Arrowhead.

If the Jags hold the Chiefs to under 180 yards rushing I’ll be surprised.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 19, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say Jones

Quick backs like Charles haven’t been too effective against the Jaguars because the line and the linebackers all flow from sideline to sideline relatively well.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 20, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just look at how

Chris Johnson has performed against us. 4 out of 5 times we’ve played Chris Johnson, he’s played pretty poorly against us.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

And that 1 game out of 5

He had some of the best runs I’ve ever seen from a RB. It’s on youtube somewhere, I can’t find it.

by YouDon'tPhaseMeGobble on Oct 21, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

How do you play in the weather?

Weather.com says 73 and isolated Thunder storms on Sunday at Arrowhead.

I love it when a plan comes together!

by Spunky on Oct 19, 2010 2:53 PM CDT reply actions  

That might fit better for the Jaguars. I’m sure the team is going to want to pound it and Thunder storms would certainly help that.

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Big Cat Country, The #1 Jaguars blog on the net

by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 19, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jack Del Rio?!?

How long till Del Rio is run out of town? Seems like he’s always on the “hot seat”. Our team can contest to improved coaching can turn into improved team play.
So, would you overhaul coaches, or players?

by beb1945 on Oct 19, 2010 2:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Honestly I think he’s a “dead man walking” at this point. Barring a complete collapse, he’ll be the coach until the end of the year. He needs to get to the playoffs to save his job, and that doesn’t look likely right now.

Follow me on twitter
Big Cat Country, The #1 Jaguars blog on the net

by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 19, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tim Tebow?

Was there a real push from the fans to draft this guy?

Its about becoming just a little bit better blogger each day. Again, across the board, it’s a process.

SC: And you probably don't mind all of those Ed Reed comparisons you get?

EB: (Laughs) No, not at all

by Jay Cotton on Oct 19, 2010 2:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Real Jags fans never wanted him

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

personally

who would you have picked? What do you think the Real Jags fans selection would of been?

Its about becoming just a little bit better blogger each day. Again, across the board, it’s a process.

SC: And you probably don't mind all of those Ed Reed comparisons you get?

EB: (Laughs) No, not at all

by Jay Cotton on Oct 19, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

“In Gene (Smith) We Trust” Nobody knew who Alualu was but he’s been great so far

Follow me on twitter
Big Cat Country, The #1 Jaguars blog on the net

by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 19, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously....Pac10 baller

I don’t comment on this site for the people that are against me and think that I can’t do it. I comment for the people that have always believed in me. I comment for my family, for my wife, for my mother so it really comes down to that.

by HIV 2 Elway on Oct 19, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

So was Cassel...

Why yes, I AM baiting you.

"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"

-Marty Schottenheimer

by go_saleaumua on Oct 20, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cassel

was never a baller in the pac10. Unless you call bench riding balling. lol

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

He did a really good job washing Pete Carroll's car...

"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"

-Marty Schottenheimer

by go_saleaumua on Oct 23, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Before the draft

I would have drafted Earl Thomas. But as soon as we made the draft pick, I was on board. I liked all along. But never considered him for a 43 front. After I went back and watched some of his old games, I knew he was going to be a hit regardless of scheme. He’s probably the best DT of the last 2 years, short of Suh and probably Terrance Knighton.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

In fact

the only draft selection I would have changed was drafting our 3rd round DT D’Anthony Smith, who ruptured his achilles, instead of Alterraun Verner. And I would have said that before, during, and after the draft before the injury.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jaguar fans never wanted him. Gator fans and a certain local sports station was just a vocal minority.

Drafting Tebow would have been a terribly short sighted solution to a problem. The Jaguars are in their situation because of terrible first round picks. Tebow would’ve just been another.

The Jaguars contracted 2 different marketing firms to put a number of the “Tebow effect”. They both said about 2,500. The Jaguars sold over 4,000 season tickets in the two weeks following the draft

Follow me on twitter
Big Cat Country, The #1 Jaguars blog on the net

by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 19, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

What was the difference between the Colts game and last night?

The sad thing is I fell asleep at halftime last night, even though I really wanted to check out the Jaguars. After Garrard went out, just didn’t have the interest anymore. Is that bad?

by cpa913 on Oct 19, 2010 3:24 PM CDT reply actions  

I wish I had an answer

The inconsistency is amazing. 3 wins that looked good and 3 losses of 25 points or more. Garrard played poorly in the losses, but it’s not like the rest of the team has been consistent either.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 20, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

The difference was

the game just got away from us. We can pass the ball well, if everyone doesn’t already know we need to pass it. But once the Titans knew we were gonna start passing, or got us in 2nd/3rd and long, we could not stop them from pinning their ears back.
And unlike our other losses, I thought the officials did a good job of screwing us over.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

hey

John as a broncos fan we will root for u this week

okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider

by j-man on Oct 19, 2010 3:32 PM CDT reply actions  

HATER!

Dexter McCluster for Rookie of the Year
2011 Chiefs Record Prediction: 8-8
____________________________

CHIEFS WILL
BELIEVE, BELIEVE, BELIEVE!

by KC Nate on Oct 19, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't believe wait J-man says.

He pretends to be a donkey fan, but we all know he secretly loves the Chiefs.

by saskwatch on Oct 19, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

...and I was thinking that...

j-man was a closet Chiefs fan — dagnabbit!

by Chief_Elmo on Oct 20, 2010 6:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

From what I saw last night you guys are missing John Henderson.

How pissed are Jags fans about losing him?

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 19, 2010 3:44 PM CDT reply actions  

Not really- he would beeen a backup now.

The D-line was last night the only big positive thing (Besides Scobee and Mike Thomas)

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

But... you gave up 153 rushing yards and had 0 sacks.

It’s hard to take anything positively from a DL that does that. Maybe I’m off base… you guys would know your team better than I would, but I was watching and thinking… “damn… why did they let Henderson go again?”

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 19, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

The D.line is right now

the only thing which working these days. The jags had 14 sack in total last year; they have 11 already this year.

And 1 more thing- Chris Johnson had a very long TD run in the end at the garbage time. Until then he was a non factor!

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you see the play of their DTs?

I’m impressed at how well the Jags’ DTs were playing last night because I did not expect them to be that good. Alualu wasn’t great in pass rush last night, but he was pretty good in run defense. But Knighton’s name came up a couple times last night, and he was making plays in the backfield. Kampman also looks like a solid addition and really, the only spot hurting on their D-line is the other DE where I’m guessing they were hoping for former 1st round pick, Derrick Harvey, to come to life with that talent around him. So I could see the Chiefs having problems if they try to force it up the middle. I would try to stretch it, seal the edge, and let Charles go against those safeties and corners. Can a Jags fan confirm that would be the best way to run the ball?

by theaxeeffect4721 on Oct 19, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

End-arounds from McCluster

Just saying, watch out

Anthrax, ham radio, and liquor.

by KeyboardGato on Oct 20, 2010 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Going sideline to sideline looked to be the defense's strength actually

Haven’t seen too many backs beat us to the edge this year.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 20, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

The best way to beat our D

running the ball, has nothing to do with scheme or point of attack. The best way is to run it A LOT. Because even though the starting front 4 is good, we don’t nearly have the depth we need to stop a great run team all game. None of our backups are run stuffers, that includes our DT’s and DE’s. Harvey is actually really good against the run, but pretty much useless as a pass rusher. So if you are gonna run, run to your left all game and the longer runs might come by the end of the game.
I have to say, you’ve made some pretty good observations theaxeeffect4721.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm so run the ball alot and run left

That seems to be perfect for the chiefs. One of our strongest run plays by far is a counter play or delayed handoff to the left. And Charles and Jones average around 29 carries per game between them. On a day where the run works well i’d expect closer to 35 runs between them.

Chiefs go 7-9 this year and 3-3 in the division.
We have a top 5 rushing attack and a bottom 10 pass attack. Charles and Bowe in the Pro Bowl.
We have a top 5 pass defense and a bottom 10 rush defense. Hali, Flowers, and Berry to the Pro Bowl.

by ChiefsfanJon on Oct 21, 2010 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know

Kind of scary, as a Jag fan.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 21, 2010 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not missing him at all

We weren’t pissed about losing him either. The starting two defensive tackles (Alualu and Knighton) have been two of the brightest spots on a rather crappy defense. Henderson was never much of a factor once Marcus Stroud got traded to Buffalo.

Not sure what you saw on Monday night that would indicate we would be missing him.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 20, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are the Jags base defense still a 43?

If so, do they ever play 34 in passing situations?

by Chiefs_40 on Oct 19, 2010 3:51 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes they play a 4-3 now

And no- they don’t play 3-4 this year

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are all 2 Jaguar fans participating in this thread?

Also, how pissed will you be when the Jaguars move to LA?

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 19, 2010 5:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Minnesota will end up in LA - mark my word within 2 years!

The jags have ‘just’ attendnce issues; but the last time I checked KC had a blackout and Jacksonville not this season….

Also there are more active fans; just I and Jon answering today; lot of guys are still upset/not try to think Jaguars for teh obvious reasons.

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

KC hasn't been blacked out this season.

Chiefs go 7-9 this year and 3-3 in the division.
We have a top 5 rushing attack and a bottom 10 pass attack. Charles and Bowe in the Pro Bowl.
We have a top 5 pass defense and a bottom 10 rush defense. Hali, Flowers, and Berry to the Pro Bowl.

by ChiefsfanJon on Oct 19, 2010 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

We had one blackout when the Browns came to visit...

It was winter, both teams sucked, economy is bad…all equate to a likely blackout. Other than that game, we always sell out.

When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.

Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.

CHIEFS WILL!

by NJChieffan16 on Oct 19, 2010 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oups....

Sorry.

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

ha

kc has had one blackout in the past 20 years. and that was at the end of last year. Now the raiders and chargers are diff story

by chiefnation on Oct 19, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

uhhm

but the last time I checked KC had a blackout and Jacksonville not this season….

that’s where you are wrong we have not been blacked out at all this season. that’s the chargers. last time we were blacked out was last year vs. cleveland i believe

Dexter McCluster for Rookie of the Year
2011 Chiefs Record Prediction: 8-8
____________________________

CHIEFS WILL
BELIEVE, BELIEVE, BELIEVE!

by KC Nate on Oct 20, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Explain of the "Vikings move to LA" thing

the Vikes are in 850 million $ depth now; (the franchise is worth around that); the state voted against the new stadium twice; The owner said in 2010; he gave the State 1 year; if there will be nondody who guarantee a new stadium within a year in Minnesota; he will hear offers from other cities. Guess who will knock on the door first?….

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe

But I’m not sure if you realize how psychotic the Vikings fans are up here. They are nuts. I’d be surprised if something doesn’t happen to keep them here at the last minute.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 20, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dumb thing to say

Seriously do some research before you say something stupid like that. The league is down 5% in ticket sales and the Jaguars are up 44%. 0 blackouts through 4 home games. There are teams like the Raiders, Buccaneers, Lions, Chargers, Bills and Browns who are having more trouble selling tickets. Not to mention the fact that the Jaguars have a top notch stadium that recently hosted a Super Bowl.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 20, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe you should do a little research.

1) The Raiders won’t move back to LA. How do I know this? Because Al Davis owns the team, and he never does anything right.
2) The Bills will not move to LA. They are a small market team in an old stadium, but they will move to Toronto (Where they have played games before) and become the NFL’s first Canadian team before they move to LA.
3) The Browns? C’mon man, you saw what happened when they were moved to Baltimore. Their fans flipped shit, and they got a new team. Won’t happen again.
4) Chargers… Maybe. They do market themselves in LA and are in the oldest stadium in the NFL. They also suffer from the same problem that Jacksonville does: They are a military town. Hard to build a loyal fan base when your fans are always getting shipped out and moved around
5) Bucs – Maybe, but I doubt it. They won a Superbowl within the last 10 years, and are currently “Rebuilding”.

As for your claim that the Jags attendance is up 44%, and have had zero blackouts: Does that include the 10,000 seats that they put a tarp over so the seats don’t apply to blackout numbers? Even then, the team management still cut ticket prices and even offered coupons to 17,000 season ticket holders who didn’t renew.

I’m not trying to be a dick here, but I think the writing is on the wall. The NFL isn’t going to leave the LA market untapped for very much longer. Jacksonville is the smallest NFL market, had all but 1 game blacked out last year.

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 22, 2010 2:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Reread

what Adam wrote. You’re arguing with he point he didn’t make.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 3:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe you can point it out

If it’s the fact that they have a nice stadium and hosted a superbowl, who cares? Was Jacksonville in the Superbowl? No?

As far as the NFL’s average attendance being down 5% and Jacksonville’s being up 44%, i’m not sure where he got those numbers, but they are flat out wrong.

The average attendance of NFL games in 2009 was 67501, and so far in 2010 average attendance is at 67537, which is only an increase of about .05%, but a far cry from being down 5%. And then there’s the claim that Jacksonville’s attendance is up 44%. Again, that’s not a true statement. Last year, Jacksonville’s home games averaged 49,651 people per game. This year they are up dramatically to 63407, an increase of 27.71%. While that’s nice, it’s way off of the 44% increase you claim.

Let me put that in perspective for you. Even with nearly a 28% increase, the Jaguars are still ranked 25th in the league in average ticket sales per game. The teams below them are teams that are either A) Historically bad (Lions, Rams, Bucs, Raiders), or have a tiny stadium (Bears at 61.5k, Arizona at 63.4k), or are the NFL’s most overhyped team (San Diego)

If he wants more research (since he obviously didn’t do any before trying to discredit me), let me know.

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 22, 2010 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again you need to reread

The league is down 5% in ticket sales and the Jaguars are up 44%. I promise I didn’t make it up.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 23, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I heard was that they're trying desperately to reach out to the fan base.

Winning at home is HUGE for the Jags this year. They’ve been better on the road, I think.

In the LA sweepstakes, it DOES seem as though the Jags would be a target.

by hmills110 on Oct 23, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

When was the last time an NFL team moved because of attendence issues?

If sales were like they were last year, then it would look like a real possibility. But the Jags have done a good job selling tickets for this season, but we’re not out of danger yet.

You can't reason with unreasonable people.

by JagsAlex87 on Oct 23, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Adam, I think you misunderstood.

The article clearly states that NEW ticket sales are up 44% over LAST year. Please don’t take offense: those are fantastic numbers and I don’t think your team is going anywhere.

"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade

by skunk420 on Oct 24, 2010 5:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Of course they're up from last year

That’s exactly how interpreted it.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 24, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, you're not reading it correctly.

They are up 44% in season ticket sales, not general ticket sales.

Team A sold 10,000 season tickets in 2009 and Team B Sold 20,000 season tickets in 2009. In 2020 Team A’s season ticket sales are up 50% and Team B’s season ticket sales are down 5%. That means

2010
Team A: 15000 season tickets
Team B: 19000 season tickets

So even though Team A’s ticket sales are way up compared to their previous season, they still aren’t selling as many as other teams. And this is the case with Jacksonville.

I don’t know how much simpler I can make this for you.

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 24, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance

Do the math yourself You’ll see i’m right.

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 24, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

He and Edwards BOTH injured

SDavid has a concussion- I think he will NOT play Sunday.
Edwards has a thumb injury on his throwing hand; and a knee injury….

So maybe Todd “I don’t play a single snap in 5 years in a regular NFL game” Bouman could actully be the Jaguars starting QB on Sunday (I think I will slowly go and searc the panic button).

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

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by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Paging gambling degenerates, paging gambling degenerates.

Line still hasn’t moved from KC -4.5

Todd Bouman vs Brandon Flowers?

Come on, drop $500, easy money!

by craig in calgary on Oct 19, 2010 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where you gamble?

One of the founding members of The Super Duper Matt Cassel Fanclub
Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!
We all have the right to our own opinions, its just that mine are right.

by nateforchiefs on Oct 19, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zach Miller!

He’s your backup TE from UNO (University of Nebraska at Omaha). He is a physical specimen, I say you just have him do it. He can’t be any worse than Trent Edwards, can he?

One of the founding members of The Super Duper Matt Cassel Fanclub
Cry Havoc! And let slip the Chiefs Defense of War!!!
We all have the right to our own opinions, its just that mine are right.

by nateforchiefs on Oct 19, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

He is usally the 3rd QB

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Follow me on twitter @iktriad

by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 19, 2010 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's a physical specimen alright

but he was a below average passer even in college.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yikes...

3rd string QB coming to play at Arrowhead… I smell 3 INTs and about 5 sacks.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 20, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Flowers has this killer ability to make receivers look more open than they really are.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 20, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Take it from a Jags fan

Their run defense is stellar. (Although I havent watched) PFF is salivating over their DL and Tyson Aluhahaha *erm.
Oh well I hope we pass again and let Matt Cassel have another career day.

Chiefs start 4-0. Yes the colts lose to us.
Cassel will be our QBotF. The hate needs to stop NOW
Motivation is a fire from within, if someone else lights it, chances are it will burn briefly

by CasselKiLLer on Oct 19, 2010 10:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Loading up 9 in the box

I should hope you’re able to slow down someone

Anthrax, ham radio, and liquor.

by KeyboardGato on Oct 19, 2010 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Although I must admit

I hate losing to the Jags but much respect to your franchise and organization.
I hope it’s a good game

Chiefs start 4-0. Yes the colts lose to us.
Cassel will be our QBotF. The hate needs to stop NOW
Motivation is a fire from within, if someone else lights it, chances are it will burn briefly

by CasselKiLLer on Oct 19, 2010 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not buying that they're a "stellar" run defense. Look at their ranking. Look who they've played:

19th ranked Rush defense.

DEN – They can’t run the ball. At all. Seriously… they suck at rushing. Holding them to 61 yards is about par for the rest of the league.
SD – Mathews was out and the Chargers ran the ball primarily with their FB… and he racked up 87 yards. Averaged 5.0 ypc
PHI – The Eagles ran the ball 15 times. And averaged 5.0 ypc.
IND – Not a run first team. Not a good barometer… although Addai had a 3.9 ypc average.
BUF -The Bills ran for 100 on them. They averaged 5.2 ypc.
TEN – 153 yards. 3.9 ypc average.

I just don’t see this great run defense the Jags claim they have. They want to puff their chest over what was done to TEN… but come on. The Titans played with a growing lead the entire game. They ran the ball a lot (40 times). The Jags knew they would run the ball a lot. Ant they STILL gave up 4 yards per carry.

The Chiefs are going to annihilate them on Sunday. I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sound like a prick, I’m not like that… but seriously. The Jags are about to play the #1 rushing attack in the NFL. On the road. The Jags gave up 5 ypc to 3 teams, and they’re 8th, 13th and 16th in rushing. And 2 of the other teams hardly even use the run. The Chiefs have been averaging 5 ypc through 6 games. Somethings gotta give… The chiefs are going to run all over Jacksonville.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 20, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm starting to see why the Chiefs are a 4.5 point favorite.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 20, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

How distracting are the relocation rumors?

Do Jags fans generally expect it, or are they cautiously optimistic?

Also, are there any QBs in particular that you’re hoping for in next year’s draft (since Luck shouldn’t fall to you guys)?

by Dan Holmes on Oct 19, 2010 10:12 PM CDT reply actions  

I think if the attendence

will constantly above the blackout number the Jags wiill go nowhere in the near future. The team must survive somehow the rebuilding years (’09- to I hope ’11).

QB?
Hm My favourite is still Christian Ponder as the next Jags starting QB. If the Jags don’t draft a QB in the 1st round then I would like to see Ricky Stanzi drafted by Gene

Life without knowledge is death in disguise

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by Zoltan from Budapest on Oct 20, 2010 4:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

as a big hawkeye fan, i can promise you one thing

you do not want ricky stanzi as your QB. He shouldn’t even be starting at Iowa. He can’t make a read, he tales terrible sacks, he throws tons of picks. His positives are that Marvin McNutt and DJK bail him out on long passes, and the national media likes him. That’s it.

Dear Alex Gordon:

I still think you will be awesome, but for the love of God, please stop getting hurt.

Sincerely,

RF

by RoyalFlush on Oct 21, 2010 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude

As a Hawkeye fan, have you been watching Hawkeye football this year? He’s the 3rd most efficient QB in the NCAA. 13 Touchdowns : 2 Interceptions. Averaging over 10 yards per pass and is at a 68% completion rate. Not to mention he has the prototypical frame of 6’4", 230lbs.

If Stanzi keeps it up, he’ll go mid-round, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him as a starting NFL QB in the future.

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 22, 2010 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm a big fan of Nick Foles

But with this knee injury I doubt he comes out.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 20, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's happend to Sims-Walker this year?

Is he getting double coverage, are they just nt getting him the ball or is he not playing as well as he did last year. Mike Thomas seems to be doing well for you guys this year but Sims-Walker looked set for a big year after his break out last season.
Also, what are your thoughts on Osgood so far? I know he’s a beast on special teams but he went to you guys for the chance to play more WR, is he getting that chance? I saw him catch a couple against Denver but haven’t heard much since. Apart form the pistol whipping thing.

by ChiefUk on Oct 20, 2010 11:07 AM CDT reply actions  

It’s a combination of things. He’s getting open, but Garrard wasn’t pulling the trigger. Then the offense shifted to a shorter passing game, and that benefitted Mike Thomas.

Osgood has been a great teammate and special teams player. He caught the GW TD vs Denver. He’s made a few catches since, nothing big.

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by Jonathan Loesche on Oct 20, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

dude, if you want it just ask for it.
i wrecked your comment.

Make sure you give The Hoff some love:
Here's to you Steve Hoffman

by thehulk on Oct 20, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

HAPPY NOW??!!!!

Make sure you give The Hoff some love:
Here's to you Steve Hoffman

by thehulk on Oct 20, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

The way he said

“Yeah, last night wasn’t the greatest. That’s all I got.”

Was rec-worthy.

Proud member of the Toledo Computer Club since 2010.

by KeepItCopacetic on Oct 20, 2010 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I rec this statement

Because MJD has betrayed me as well.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 20, 2010 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

What would you rather have

MJD and the jags rushing attack
or
The Kansas City Chiefs rushing attack.

Also, when Del Rio is fired, who are Jags fans pulling for to get the job?

meh...

by Chief-blinders-on on Oct 20, 2010 8:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Well I think the Chiefs clearly have the stronger running game

But I think that’s more of an indication of a superior offensive line. If I’m picking which group of running backs I like more, I’d go with the Jaguars.

As for the new coach, I doubt it’ll be a big name. It’s just not the Gene Smith way. We’re not really pulling for anyone in particular.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 20, 2010 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is a strage thing to hear that said, about the OL

In Years past our OL was terrible, ths unit is just now starting to come together. Hopefully with some more playing time they will become one of the best in the NFL again, like in 2003.

Del Rio has been their forever, they need a change. Though you are right about expecting a big hire like Cowher, maybe you’ll find a rising coordinato like Haley.

meh...

by Chief-blinders-on on Oct 20, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only thing I would worry about

when regarding your team, and speaking from experience with our team, your interior OL is fairly old and is always a cause for worry in the long run. Our OL fell off the cliff after the 07 season. But for now, enjoy. lol

by Ewdtrey on Oct 20, 2010 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well luckily we have a good young backup guard for when waters is done.

We need a backup center and Lilja probably has 5 years left in him if not more. Those littler quick lineman typically last longer.

Chiefs go 7-9 this year and 3-3 in the division.
We have a top 5 rushing attack and a bottom 10 pass attack. Charles and Bowe in the Pro Bowl.
We have a top 5 pass defense and a bottom 10 rush defense. Hali, Flowers, and Berry to the Pro Bowl.

by ChiefsfanJon on Oct 21, 2010 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

At center

yea the little quick linemen last a long time. But at guard, your run game starts to suffer when they get too old. Luckily Lilja is a LG, which makes it somewhat bearable.
But not having a viable backup center would really scare me, especially because Casey is 37!

by Ewdtrey on Oct 21, 2010 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

That does scare us, and hopefully we address it in the draft.

But Lilja is our RG (although he played LG in IND)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 21, 2010 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pick up Pouncey...

Excellent Guard, made the move to center this year…

he has definitely had issues at center snapping to shotgun, but is beatly like his brother…

If he can get the shotgun snaps down he could be a first rounder…if not maybe we can steal him in the 2nd…

Hey...How'd everyone get in my room?

by SFLChief on Oct 21, 2010 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

o'dowd is my man.

Pouncey is a beast at G no questions i just don’t know if he has the quickness and strength combo to play C against 3-4 defenses.

Chiefs go 7-9 this year and 3-3 in the division.
We have a top 5 rushing attack and a bottom 10 pass attack. Charles and Bowe in the Pro Bowl.
We have a top 5 pass defense and a bottom 10 rush defense. Hali, Flowers, and Berry to the Pro Bowl.

by ChiefsfanJon on Oct 22, 2010 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yea

I totally had a brain fart there. It could be because he still has a LG role on the right side, in that he pulls to the opposite side a lot like a LG does to his right. Power

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 3:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's very true

We have a rather unique system in place right now, which seems tailor-made for Lilja.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 23, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

not saying we don't have a good line

but wanting them to be like the line in 2003 or w/e is a stretch. not only was that line the best that year, that line was one of the best of ALL TIME. That line was straight beastly

Dexter McCluster for Rookie of the Year
2011 Chiefs Record Prediction: 8-8
____________________________

CHIEFS WILL
BELIEVE, BELIEVE, BELIEVE!

by KC Nate on Oct 21, 2010 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hmm if i remember right

Roaf, Waters, Weigmann, Shields, Tate?

Chiefs go 7-9 this year and 3-3 in the division.
We have a top 5 rushing attack and a bottom 10 pass attack. Charles and Bowe in the Pro Bowl.
We have a top 5 pass defense and a bottom 10 rush defense. Hali, Flowers, and Berry to the Pro Bowl.

by ChiefsfanJon on Oct 21, 2010 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Literally the best line of all time. Two HOF players, two multiple Pro Bowl players, and one above average player. Insane.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 21, 2010 7:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just meant them being one of the best lines in the NFL this year or next

I realize how good Roaf, Waters, Weigmann, Shields, and Tait were. This OL is not even in eyesight from that group, there is not two hall of famers on this line and throw in TG’s hall of fame career for good measure. It doesn’t even compare, but success is success,

I was just saying that it is foreign to hear so much positives about our line especially after last seasons sack totals.

meh...

by Chief-blinders-on on Oct 21, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

They already are the best line in the league this year.

Most rushing yards. Fewest sacks.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 21, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

not a big fan of the jags bloggers

sorry to say but thats how i feel, not very professional

by trae_day on Oct 21, 2010 12:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Well we're no Thornans

But I think we do some pretty good work over at BCC. Thanks for the constructive criticism, at least that’s how I’m going to interpret it so I’m not crying myself to sleep tonight.

Follow me on Twitter

by Adam Stites on Oct 21, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't even think the Thormans are Thornans

Jk bud… I mess up constantly in these responses.

meh...

by Chief-blinders-on on Oct 21, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

let it roll off your back

unless you’re getting paid serious beer-glove money like Mr. Thurman and his brother Kris.

Make sure you give The Hoff some love:
Here's to you Steve Hoffman

by thehulk on Oct 21, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

i guess I didn't really finish that thought.

what I meant was, unless you’re getting paid for this, I wouldn’t worry about whether or not you’re giving off a professional vibe. correct grammar is nice and all, but these are blogs after all, and unless you’re mr. “i’m going to the super bowl cuz my name used to be primetime07” you don’t need to worry about looking like you’ve actually been to journalism school or any of that stuff.

Make sure you give The Hoff some love:
Here's to you Steve Hoffman

by thehulk on Oct 21, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's true to a point

but it depends on what the overall goal is. If you aspire to be a professional blog writer (and get PAID like the Thormans, what what!) then you need to prove that you have good grammar, can articulate thoughts well and at the very least can proof read and use a spell checker. If you don’t do those things as amateur blog writer, nobody’s going to pay you to do it.

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 22, 2010 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

As a big NFL fan, I believe the "any given Sunday" rule always applies.

I think that one reason that it’s true is that there are 5 or more guys on the opposing team, that if they were suddenly on your team, would beat your current starters. That includes matchups between the best team in the league and the worst (let’s say last year, New Orleans vs. St. Louis; or Pittsburgh vs. Buffalo this year). In many cases there are probably more than five, but I think even worse case there are probably 5.

It’s a little tough when you run a 4-3 and we’re a 3-4 team, but here’s my top 5 Chiefs players that I think could go in and force your current starters to the bench: Flowers; Bowe; Lilja; Hali; Arenas (returns).

Having said that, what 5 players do you think could come to KC and start? Do you see any issues with my list?

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 21, 2010 7:16 PM CDT reply actions  

I would say...

MOJO, Arron Kampman, M lewis, Mathis, M. thomas, or even Sims Walker

if bowe caome over he would be a 3rd IMO

WE ARE JAGUARS.......FEAR OUR ROAR!!!!!!

by JaxBlaster on Oct 21, 2010 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

People forget that Bowe had 995 yards his rookie season on 4-12 team

and 1022 the next year on a 2-14 team. He had a tough season last year and has had a problem with drops (though it was much worse last year), but the guy has the skills to be a topflight receiver and has numbers to prove it. He certainly ranks well ahead of any of the current Jag receivers. I would think he would be a big add to the Jags.

I agree about MJD and Lewis. I’m not as sure about Kampman because he struggled in the 3-4 at Green Bay. He’s a good player and I’d say absolutely if we ran a 4-3, but I think he’s purely a 4-3 DE, not a 3-4 OLB. I’m not certain about Mathis – he MIGHT beat out Carr, but I’m not sure. As I state above, I don’t think there’s any evidence that either of your receivers could replace Bowe. They might have a shot at Chambers, but he had 600 yards last year for a bad KC team in 9 games while Sims-Walker put up just 869 for the season and Thomas didn’t even have 500. Maybe they would put Chambers on the bench because of his age, but not Bowe.

It’s difficult to say how guys would transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4, but your DTs are guys I wouldn’t mind having and see where they fit. I would think at least one of them would take the NT position.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 21, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

As far,

as the recieiver i wasnt really, going off last year or prior, i was more so going off of now and would would move right over and take the job, but no trust me i have not forgot about bowes past, in recent the guy was very good, but from what i have see this year seems to have fallen off just a bit, maybe its QB idk. But your right Our DT would de extreamly well on your team, even AluAlu, he could move to the out side easly

WE ARE JAGUARS.......FEAR OUR ROAR!!!!!!

by JaxBlaster on Oct 21, 2010 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd argue that Jags receiving numbers are difficult to compare

Seeing as the Jaguars don’t use their receivers like most other teams and MSW would blossom in another system; however, I agree with you on almost all accounts. Bowe reminds me of a bigger, stronger MSW. I don’t think he’d do very well in the Jacksonville system, but I’d still take him over MSW.

You’re right about Kampman though. He’s clearly the prototypical 4-3 DE. He might be able to start in KC, but I doubt it.

As for Mathis, I think he’d start. He’s still a top notch corner in this league and is avoided and ignored completely the majority of the time by quarterbacks.

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by Adam Stites on Oct 21, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe in the Nickel package...

but only until Arenas was up to speed. Then it’s to the bench for you Mathis.

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 22, 2010 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Arenas

is not nearly the CB that Mathis is. Having said that, I think Arenas might be the best returner in the league; so he would obviously be our returner. Though our KR, Deji Karim, is no slouch either.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 3:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mathis is a starter on this team

I like what Carr is doing and how he is developing, but Mathis is still the better player right now…

by Royals Time on Oct 22, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kampman is a prototypical 43 End

but he could play better than Carr at LOLB. Hali is significantly better than either of them in a 34 though.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 3:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

MJD is not a better running back than JC.

There, I said it. It needed to be said.

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 22, 2010 2:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't believe that one bit

I had feeling someone would say something like that because of MJD’s recent woes running the ball, but he’s been playing on a bum wheel and on an offense that struggles from to time.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 3:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Charles gained more yards in half a season than any other running back.

In about 9 games Charles racked up 270 fewer yards than MJD did in 16 games.

He’s averaging 5.9 ypc on his career of 323 total carries. He has the highest ypc this year for any RB with more than 50 carries, at 6.3.

MJD is not the better running back. Period. This cannot be argued. If Charles was the premiere back for KC he’d be leading the league in rushing yards, and by a lot. He’s already 8th in yards per game and has about half as many carries as every other top 10 RB, with 66.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

This cannot be argued?

I understand liking the players on the Chiefs, but let’s not get carried away. There is a reason why Charles does not receive the bulk of the carries. We are trying to save him so he last the entire season. He does not need to receive carries when the team gets ahead by two scores. Also, like Ewdtrey was speaking towards, MJD does not have the best situation right now, so if you were to put him in the Chiefs offense, he could probably produce as well if not better than Charles.

by theaxeeffect4721 on Oct 22, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Statistically, Charles absolutely crushes MJD.

And Charles was breaking records last year behind the Chiefs OL. Charles can run behind a bad line if he has to. Like I said, Charles was about 300 yards away from catching up to MJD in 7 fewer games played. And that was when MJD was 4th in total yards.

Sure, I like the players on the Chiefs team. But Bowe is not a top 10 WR, Cassel isn’t a franchise QB, and Derrick Johnson isn’t the best LB in the game.

Charles IS the best RB in the league this year. Doesn’t it just blow your mind that he’s 8th… EIGHTH… in yards per game? The average number of carries for top 10 running backs (excluding Charles’ 66) is 111 (999 total carries for the other backs, divided by 9) carries per game. Charles is a top 10 RB with 45 fewer carries than what the others are averaging!!! Come on man… Charles is, without a doubt the best RB this year. It cannot be argued.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Case in point

Larry Johnson behind the same line last year: 2.7 YPC

"Wow! Eric Berry can do anything!"

by aasukisuki on Oct 22, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Statistically

yes Charles is dominating. But he doesn’t catch the ball as well. He doesn’t pass block as well. He isn’t an every down back. He doesn’t have MJD’s power or tackle breaking ability. He doesn’t have MJD’s ability as a goal line back.(No one does) And Charles’ best asset, his speed is equaled by MJD. Most people like to point out MJD’s other assets, but many people forget that he was the fastest RB to come out of his class. Both he and JC ran a 4.38

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

What?
Statistically yes Charles is dominating. But

but nothing. You can talk about MJD’s size and speed all you want, so what? There are a lot of big fast RBs in the NFL. That doesn’t change the fact that none of them are doing what JC is. But hey, if you really want to play this game of putting intangibles on the table, so can I: JC is more elusive, more agile, and has better vision than MJD. That’s why he’s able to find holes and consistently make it to the second level, even behind a bad or average line. JC has a quicker burst and is a better open field runner. Jamaal doesn’t break as many tackles because he makes the tacklers miss.

He doesn’t catch the ball as well? Where do you come up with that? Charles is an excellent pass catching back. He has 130 receiving yards on 12 catches. MJD has 66 on 12 catches. Come on man…

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Well what am I doing arguing

I guess I should have just looked at the stats…I guess we as fans all are dumb for even talking about anything but stats.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 23, 2010 3:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm going to have to disagree with you there

Charles is not a one trick pony. He does break tackles well. He also avoids tackles very well (he’s very elusive). He does catch well out of the backfield. Not sure where you got that one from. Charles does not have MJD’s power, but Charles does not shy away from contact. He’s very good at reading holes that he can be effective on the goal-line if he’s needed to go in (not near MJD’s ability but it’s there).

Really, Charles compares pretty well to Chris Johnson, only Charles does not pass block as well as Johnson and can fumble from time to time. Those are his only two knocks. He has been better about fumbles this season, so let’s hope it’s something he has worked on with Jones or something. And I’m going to say Charles plays faster than he runs and is faster than MJD. Maybe MJD goes for the contact or something because while he has speed, he doesn’t have the wow speed that Charles and Johnson have.

by theaxeeffect4721 on Oct 23, 2010 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying

JC is a one trick pony, far from it actually; especially towards the end of last year. I’m saying he’s not as good in those aspects of the game. I’ve seen JC break tackles. I’ve seen him catch the ball well, much better than CJ2K I might add. And I do think in the open field that JC is a little more elusive than MJD, but I think MJD is more elusive at the LOS. Believe me, MJD does have WOW speed, just that most of his acceleration isn’t in the form of long speed.
To be honest, minus the slight difference in speed and patience CJ and JC are very similar players with the ball in their hands.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 23, 2010 3:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have to stick up for

JaxBlaster here. Our Wr’s are really unknown outside of JAX, but I would take either Mike Thomas or Mike Sims-Walker over Bowe. I like Bowes size and strength, but he doesn’t have the hands or route-running ability that either Thomas or MSW have. Not a lot of people know this, but MSW was in tandem with Brandon Marshall in college and he was the better of the pair. He’s big, strong, smart, good route runner, and he ran 4.35 40 at the combine before he even fully recovered from his knee injury.
Mike Thomas is a Steve Smith(Carolina) clone, except he’s faster and he still has perfect hands since last year. Not as tenacious, but the difference isn’t much.
On a different team, these guys would be stars.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 3:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

MJD isn't better than Charles or Jones.

Charles averages more yards per game on almost half as many carries. No contest there.
Jones is averaging more yards per carry, and only 10 less yards per game than MJD. And he’s taking less carries than MJD too. Give Jones the same number of carries as MJD and Jones would have him beat in yards.

Your running backs are not as good as ours.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

You guys relize.....

Your baising your running game off one season right…..can they sustain for more then one season before you proclaim then the best in the NFL?

WE ARE JAGUARS.......FEAR OUR ROAR!!!!!!

by JaxBlaster on Oct 22, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Charles ran for more yards than any other back in 8 games last year.

Jones has been a top 5 RB for 5 straight years.

There is no reason to suspect that their play will drop off significantly. What they’re doing this year is just a continuation of their already impressive careers.

And the fact remains… right now, as we speak, I’d rather have Charles or Jones over MJD. They are accomplishing more than he is.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

You would rather have Jones than MJD?

I would rather have Charles over MJD, but definitely not Jones over MJD…

by Royals Time on Oct 22, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Jones has had more yards, and/or a higher ypc average than MJD

For 3 straight years. And he’s doing it again this year. Obviously MJD is the better long term choice… but for 2010 I’ll take Jones over MJD.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow what? Jones is having a better year than MJD.

Jones has been a top RB for a long time. It’s true. MJD is the better long term choice, yeah, but if I had to pick one RB to have this year, based on the production so far, I’d have to take Jones. He’s getting more done in less carries.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's put it this way

go to any other unbiased fan and ask them who they think is the better back.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 23, 2010 3:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Between

Jones and MJD they would go with Jones

Between Charles and MJD they would say MJD…for now based on popularity and Charles just starting this league.

Jamaal Charles...Enough said.

Picks
55-35

by Chiefsfan85 on Oct 23, 2010 6:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

This year?

Like you said, MJD is gimpy this year, and he isn’t running the ball like we’re accustomed to seeing.

THIS year, Jones is the better back. When MJD gets healthy I assume he’ll take that back.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 23, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

My point all along, right now, this year, as in 2010,

Jones is the better back.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 23, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I concur

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 23, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think if we had MJD he'd take Jones' starting spot

I think they would use MJD almost exactly the same way they do Jones now. The two have a lot in common, but MJD is a younger and probably quicker. He’s definitely more difficult to bring down than Jones. I think the YPC has a lot more to do with the overall scheme the Chiefs run and the gameplan they use. I think MJD would be very successful playing for the Chiefs, assuming there are no chemistry issues.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 22, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

You guys are so delusional about Mathis.

He showed such promise the 1st year or 2. What happened? He’s now average at best. Rashean would rarely see the field on KC’s secondary.

"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade

by skunk420 on Oct 24, 2010 6:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree with your 4

Except maybe Arenas. As a punt returner he’d be very valuable, but we have a lot of faith in our kick returner, Deji Karim, who is also a rookie. So I’d kinda put Arenas down as half correct, possibly fully correct. I don’t know how you guys feel about Casey Wiegmann, but just looking at your run stats I think he could probably be a safer choice for #5.

As for the 5 to the Chiefs: I’d go MJD, Marcedes Lewis, Rashean Mathis, Terrance Knighton (he can definitely play NT) and then I’m split between Garrard or Scobee for the 5th. Both are debatable.

Follow me on Twitter

by Adam Stites on Oct 21, 2010 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lilja's the only OL I picked because I don't know a lot about your line or blocking scheme

I heard one of your local radio guys on the Red Zone (a KC Chiefs podcast) that you have some weakness in the middle of your O line. The Chiefs run a zone blocking scheme, and that’s really the only system I think Wiegmann can be successful in. I’m not sure how well he’d do in a man blocking system, he’s 37 years old. The guy’s excellent at picking up stunts and is very good at making reach blocks, but he’s undersized and can have a rough day against a big NT. If you play zone blocking, he could be a good fit, but somehow I picture the Jags as a man blocking team.

Waters, who has been a multiple year pro-bowler and was part of that incredible line of the early 2000’s doesn’t seem to dominate like he once did. A couple of years ago I’d say he’d start over almost any guard in any scheme, he could do it all. But I don’t know much about your LG, so I didn’t list him. There was some talk in the offseason about moving Waters to Center, so maybe he would move in and start.

Albert is a solid LT for us, but It seems unlikely that Albert would beat out Monroe and maybe not even Britton, so I left him out, though maybe he could take a guard spot (his position in college).

I selected Lilja because he’s played well for us and for Indy. They guy started in two SBs and has a ring. And he’s only 29. I know your RG is a rookie, and I’m guessing Lilja would put him on the bench to learn, which would probably do him some good.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 21, 2010 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow that was a long reply, sorry

I would also agree about Arenas. I picked him just because he had a tremendous college career and has played really well so far. But you never know with rookies. Maybe he wouldn’t beat your guy.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 21, 2010 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well actually

our RG might be the strength of the team. He’s solid as a pass blocker and a road grader in the run game. His only weakness is with feel with timing and position. But he’s not a rookie.
I wouldn’t doubt however that Lilja could start at LG here. Especially with our starter being out these last couple of weeks.
Overall however, your offensive linemen don’t really fit our scheme well. Meester(Our center) is fairly even with Casey, but Meester struggles run blocking in his older age in our scheme.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 3:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

'but I think even worse case there are probably 5'

Except for Oakland. There you can figure Nnamdi and uh…..uh….only one there….

by Kgrone on Oct 21, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oakland has a lot of talent, it's why they continue to win some games despite bad QB play and coaching problems

They have THE best punter in the league in Lechler. They have a lot of solid players, but a lot of their better ones are overpaid (like Asomugha). The problem with the Raiders isn’t a lack of talent. I think my statement holds true.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 21, 2010 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's do this!

Oakland 5….
Nnamdi Asamougha(No explaination needed), Robert Gallery(Was a bust at OT, but one HELLUVA OG), Richard Seymore(Can line up anywhere on the DL and be effective), Michael Bush(highly underrated), and Zach Miller(One of the best TE’s in the AFC).

Is JC Jesus Christ or Jamaal Charles? I think they both will be our savior.

by 25JCPavedTheWay on Oct 21, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

After Nnamdi, I would grab Lechler second

Can’t really disagree with any of your other guys, but I think I’d go for McFadden over Bush. And I suspect McClain could beat out Belcher, so I’d go for him somewhere in there.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 21, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let me set you guys straight....

1) Nnamdi Asomugha. The guy is a flat out beast. You virtually can’t beat him.
2) Darren McFadden. He really is the full package when healthy. The guy is a fantastic receiver, improving runner, and is surprisingly good at picking up the blitz.
3) Richard Seymour. His versatility is really good for this defensive line. If you ask me, he’s easily played like a top 5 defensive tackle in the league.
4) Zach Miller. He really is just a big receiver. Miller has that special knack for finding soft spots in zone coverage. His blocking could use some improvement.
5)Matt Shaugnessy. The kid has really come into his own over the past couple of games. While he’s not special at anything, he’s quietly emerging as one of the more complete defensive ends in the league.

Oh yeah, the reason why I don’t put Lechler on this list, is because he really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. We’ve had him for the last eight years, and our record in still 27-83 (something like that). There’s quite a bit of bright young talent on this team.

Louis Murphy is a superb receiver, Gallery is still our best offensive lineman, and Michael Bush is a great between the tackles type of runner. Also, watch for Mike Mitchell, Darius Heyward-Bey, Trevor Scott, Tyvon Branch, Rolando McClain, Lamarr Houston, and Jared Veldheer in the future as key contributors.

by Joshsports60 on Oct 21, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

My point is that in any NFL matchup there are players on one side who would start for their opposition

They may struggle with their current team, but they have great talent, it’s why the league is so great. While there isn’t true parity across the league as a rule (though it’s a lot closer this year), there is always a much better talent parity than we fans typically see because we tend to like OUR guys and because we tend to only notice the skill players.

And despite the Raiders record with Lechler, the guy would start over any other punter in the league. His only real competition is Scifres and Dustin Colquitt.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 21, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

McFadden

can block well, but he’s very inconsistent mentally.
Trevor Scott could translate well to LOLB in the Chiefs 34.
Murphy makes some great plays sometimes, but like Bowe, he’s too inconsistent. He makes highlight reel catches, then drops the easy reception out in the middle of nowhere, and even when he does catch it, he hastroubles holding on to the ball.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 4:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bush

was a reach. He wouldn’t be an upgrade over JC. Thomas Jones is probably still better than Bush.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 3:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

There isn't a RB in the NFL that would be an upgrade over Charles.

He has the highest ypc for any RB with more than 50 carries. Extrapolate his stats out as a feature back and he’d be leading the league in yards, and it wouldn’t even be close….

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's see him do it for a whole season before we crown him

I think he’s a very good back, but I’ll bet his YPC go down a little bit before the end of the year.

You can't reason with unreasonable people.

by JagsAlex87 on Oct 22, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's averaging 5.9 ypc on his career of 350 carries...

It’s not going to go down much.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's why I said a little

His stats are very impressive. It reminds me of when MJD was splitting carries with Fred Taylor. Both backs played extremely well while sharing the load. Now, MJD has to get 70% of the carries, and his YPC has gone down a lot.

You can't reason with unreasonable people.

by JagsAlex87 on Oct 22, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Go back and check

MJD’s numbers in his first season. He had something like Charles’ YPC, with 5.7, except he had the whole package to go with it; as he was returning the football on kickoffs. He was catching the ball, leading all RB’s with yards per reception. And he was a terrific goal line back.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 22, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a lot like what Charles did last year...

He was returning kicks too, and had 40 receptions last year.

Simple fact remains… if I had the option to choose any back in the NFL right now to replace Charles, I wouldn’t. He’s doing more than any other back right now when he touches the ball.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

But

you have to account for the fact that MJD is playing on a bum wheel. It’s easy to say that one player is better than another when one of them is injured.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 23, 2010 3:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Charles was playing with an injury

the last half of the season and he got more than 1,100 yards then less than 200 carries.

Jamaal Charles...Enough said.

Picks
55-35

by Chiefsfan85 on Oct 23, 2010 6:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wasn't

it a shoulder though?

by Ewdtrey on Oct 23, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

That doesn't refute the argument that RIGHT NOW JC is the better choice

If anything, it strengthens it.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Oct 23, 2010 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am accounting for that fact...

That’s what right now means. RBs deteriorate. They get injured. MJD might never be the same back. We saw it happen with Larry Johnson. He broke his foot and never ran the same. If I had to sign either MJD or Charles to a 10 million dollar contract right now… the choice is easy.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 23, 2010 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Shouldn't be that easy

considering MJD hasn’t missed a game due to injury in his career. Has JC shown to be that dependable? Not yet. Has been there? Yes… But not with the carries MJD has gotten and over the length of time MJD has.

by Ewdtrey on Oct 25, 2010 2:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

You yourself said he has a bum wheel.

Right now the Chiefs have the best rushing game in the NFL. Which would any non biased GM choose, RIGHT NOW… Charles or MJD?

This convo is stupid, I’m done with it. You guys got thrashed by the most superior rushing game in the NFL. If you can’t honestly see that Charles AND Jones ARE the premiere RBs in the NFL, then nothing can really be told to you that shouldn’t be inherently apparent.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 25, 2010 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

That statement is a little misleading

Charles is putting up great numbers, but I think the Chiefs are pretty selective in how they use him. If think Charles struggles in standard short yardage situations. He’s also not as effective a 3rd down back right now as I believe he will be later because he has some issues on blitz pickup. But KC uses Charles in ways that maximize his effectiveness and Jones is very good where Charles is weak. I’m not saying Charles isn’t a fantastic back, he is, but he has his weaknesses just like every other RB.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 22, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is not misleading.

Charles carried the load last year and had a better 8 games than any other RB. The Chiefs could use Charles as the feature back if they wanted… but with our identity being that of a run first team we’re on track to rush the ball 528 times this season. That means Charles would be expected to shoulder a 400 carry season. That would be giving him the LJ treatment, and we know what happens when a back carries the ball that much.

The Chiefs aren’t limiting his carries due to his abilities. They’re limiting his carries to prolong his career. It’ll be awfully nice to have a RB for 7-10 years that can be an annual top 10 rusher, with half as many carries as the other RBs in his tier. Everything we get from the guy splitting with him is just gravy.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you don't think the Chiefs are using Charles in a way that maximize his ability

or that he has weaknesses that they avoid? And I’m sorry, but I don’t go for just pointing at YPC and saying this guy is better because he has better YPC. A lot of that is based on his line, his team, and his offense. Do you think Charles would have anything like those numbers playing in Jacksonville the same way that they use MJD?

I’m not saying Charles has some sort of debilitating shortcoming, but he’s not as good as Jones in some situations, so the Chiefs don’t use him in those. That allows both players to make the most of their opportunities and is a big reason why I think KC has such a potent running attack. I do agree that they are also limiting his carries (and Jones’) to keep them fresh and to try and make sure that they can contribute down the road.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 22, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Question:

You can trade Charles for ANY RB in the NFL. Who do you take?

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Off the top of my head - Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, or Frank Gore

I’d put take any of those three ahead of him.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 22, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or Steven Jackson, add him in there as well.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 22, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Id add to that...

Ray Rice, and MJD….stronger, and more complete backs.

WE ARE JAGUARS.......FEAR OUR ROAR!!!!!!

by JaxBlaster on Oct 22, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're insane.

Both of you. If Charles was getting the ball even 5 more times a game, he’d likely be leading the NFL by a wide margin.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love charles and hes an awsome back....

Hell hes on my starting fantasy roster….But i also think your “stats” are a bit misleading….He had that break away run in the SD game, and thats packs on a lot of stats.

WE ARE JAGUARS.......FEAR OUR ROAR!!!!!!

by JaxBlaster on Oct 22, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

So we're removing break away runs?

Then each and every one of the RBs listed should have their longest run taken off… Foster had a 74, Johnson had a 76, Peterson had an 80….

That’s a pointless argument to make.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like I said somewhere above:

Charles is 8th in the league in yards per game… and he’s carried the ball 45 times fewer than the average for all the other top 10 RBs… how does that just not blow your mind.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yards per game needs to be compared to carries per game...

Not total carries. You guys had a bye, where most teams haven’t…That would make up some of the difference. I don’t mean to say JC isn’t the best back in the league (I don’t necessarily think he is, but I think it can be argued).

Also, the way he’s used DOES make a big difference. Correll Buckhalter averaged 5.5 ypc last year. No way is he a 5.5 ypc back if we give him 15-20 carries. I think JC is better than Buck, but added carries would also bring his ypc down a bit.

by Kgrone on Oct 22, 2010 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Correll Buckhalter also didn't carry the ball 211 time last year.

Charles carried the load and was still getting a high ypc average (5.9). Point being, Jamaal showed that even when he did get the full load (20+ carries a game), he kept producing at a high level. His production didn’t drop with more carries.

That’s the point I’m trying to make. If Jamaal had more carries he’d be leading the league in rushing, and by a large margin.

And the main point I’m arguing is that Jamaal is the ONLY back with over 50 carries that made the top 10 list like he did. A lot of 3rd down backs have a high ypc average, but Jamaal is more than a 3rd down back. He’s a dual back that COULD carry the full load, if we absolutely had to have him do it.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 23, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

a couple of...

long break away runs, in the stats department, can make you look on paper alot better then you really are in a game. Sorry but thats the truth.

WE ARE JAGUARS.......FEAR OUR ROAR!!!!!!

by JaxBlaster on Oct 22, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bull. Shit.

If you take away Charles’ runs, then take away the other RBs long runs too. This is the most bullshit argument you can come up with. Please.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

This and the other one were good rebuttals; however,

there’s something to be said for moving the chains over crazy big stats. And keep in mind that average is bolstered by running draws on 3rd and long.

It’s great to bust some big ones, but how’s your offense doing with regard to converting 1st downs? Chiefs are CURRENTLY over .500, but to me, greatness in a RB translates into wins and not who’s atop the stat chart.

by hmills110 on Oct 23, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

And as long as you want to bring up long runs...

Charles has 5 of them for 20+ yards, on 66 carries
Peterson has 4 on 112 carries
Johnson has 8 on 139 carries
Jackson has 3 on 127 carries
Gore has 3 on 116 carries
MJD has 1 on 119 carries

I think the argument could be made that better running backs break big runs more frequently… just another stat that Charles looks really good in considering he’s about 50 carries away from those guys. No matter how you look at it Charles statistically looks like the best back in the NFL based on each time he touches the ball.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I completely agree with you :)

Jamaal Charles...Enough said.

Picks
55-35

by Chiefsfan85 on Oct 23, 2010 6:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

You asked me to name backs, and now your talking about stats again

Try to stay on point.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 22, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

And besides,

Yes, I think you could put Charles on just about any line in the NFL and he would be effective… once he got the starting job last year he out rushed every other RB… behind an OL that had was so bad it has 2 (technically 3) of it’s starters replaced. The Chiefs line was bad last year, and Charles still lit teams up.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 22, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fine, can we agree to disagree?

You believe he’s the best back in the NFL. I don’t. I’m incredibly happy to have him on our team. Can we just leave it there?

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 22, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, :P

Jamaal Charles...Enough said.

Picks
55-35

by Chiefsfan85 on Oct 23, 2010 6:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

They ARE using him to prolong his career and maximize his ability

But, even if Charles had the full workload he would have the same productivity if not better.

Look at games in his career with at least 20+ carries (which is the last 4 of last year) beleive it or not his ypc went up the more carries he got. 658yrds in his 4 games with 20+ carries. Without going back looking at the numbers, I know one game he had 10 ypc, the others were like 8,7, and 5.

by chiefnation on Oct 24, 2010 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

not as effective 3rd down back

that would be a big negative. A couple of his +20yrd runs have been on 3rd down.

One was against SF. 3rd and 20. Run to charles up the gut for 23 yards. And it wasn’t like it was prevent D, he made many defenders miss on that play well before the first down.

by chiefnation on Oct 24, 2010 2:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, it's done...

Jones: 20 carries, 125 yards.
Charles: 15 carries, 71 yards.
MJD: 16 carries, 47 yards.

There it is Jags fans. I’d take TJ or JC over MJD. You just witnessed the best running attack in the NFL.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 24, 2010 3:18 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

Because...

You guys were arguing that MJD is better.

No, he’s not. You guys came in here and said MJD was better than Jones or Charles. You are now witnesses to how kick ass the Chiefs backfield is… this argument can be put to rest.

"Reach for new elevation; and see just how high we can go. Full blown determination; will take us further than we know. My own anticipation; keeps the fire from burning out, It's time for domination... no one can ever take us down" - Pillar - "For the Love of the Game"

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 25, 2010 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, it's all about the backfield. Football's never been a team sport.

And based on your own criteria of “how many yards did he get”, MJD got more yards than JC yesterday. Heck, MJD outdid JC just on his receiving yards. So evidently that means MJD is the better back.

It’s great you’re excited, so am I. But it’s ridiculous to come in and put down fans of other teams for supporting their players. And it’s especially low to kick someone when they’re down.

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx

by Big Chief on Oct 25, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever.

I’m not telling them how horrible their team is. I didn’t put anyone down. I’m just stating a simple fact. Jones or Charles is a better running back right now, as in this year. They are consistently producing. Jags fans were bragging about how good they thought their run D was, and that MJD was the better back, and the Chiefs backfield ran all over them.

And this:

Yes, it’s all about the backfield. Football’s never been a team sport.

Did I say that? No, I don’t think I did.

Matt Cassel drives a bulldozer.

by Red N Gold Beast on Oct 25, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm a Chiefs fan, buddy

And I did not read one post where the Jags fans were cocky or smug about their team or players. They defended their team because others were writing them off, but nowhere did they say that their team or this player would dominate or that they would shut down this player. But look how great you are rubbing it in their face…

If we were to face the Jags next week but switched Charles or MJD, who would have a better game?

by theaxeeffect4721 on Oct 26, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good Game!

You are who we thought you were.

Pro Bowlers2010- J Charles, D Johnson, B Flowers & B. Waters = 10-6

by 25 in Charge on Oct 24, 2010 11:45 PM CDT reply actions  

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