When speaking of "overrated", do not mention Weis
by Larryemcdaniel on Jan 7, 2010 12:21 AM CST
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PrintLike most of you, I am a very big supporter (now lol) of bringing in Charlie Weis to lead our offense. I think it was an excellent move by Haley. A few minutes ago, a friend of mines called, and accused Charlie Weis of being overrated. Of course I instantly jumped down his throat, but i did so prematurely. I had no evidence as to why he isnt overrated. Even though I rolled off a list of the following facts:
1. 3 Time winning Super Bowl Offensive Coordinator.
2. Made Tom Brady who he is. Weis mentored him, and molded him into the future Hall of Famer.
3. Mentored Jimmy Clausen, and made him one of the most prolific passers in the NCAA in 2009
All this was not enough to put out the flames spewing from my friends mouth. His evidence for Weis being overrated was the fact that Weis has never had a top 10 offense in the NFL. Well he shut me up quick, and made me do some research. After the jump, I will break down some of Weis's achievements, and show why he is indeed not overrated!
Charlie Weis's Offensive Rankings (Patriots and Irish)
2000-2001: Weis's first year with the New England Patriots
Rushing: 26th
Total Yards: 22nd
Scoring: 25th
2001-2002: 1st Super Bowl Win
Passing: 22nd
Rushing: 13th
Total Yards: 19th
Scoring: 6th
2002-2003: Failed Playoff Appearance
Passing: 12th
Rushing: 28th
Total Yards: 21st
Scoring: 10th
2003-2004: 2nd Super Bowl Win
Passing: 9th
Rushing: 27th
Total Yards: 17th
Scoring: 12th
2004-2005: 3rd Super Bowl win in 4 years
Passing: 11th
Rushing: 7th
Total Yards: 7th
Scoring: 4th
After viewing the stats, I was amazed at what he achieved with minimal offensive talent. With players like a young Tom Brady, Bethel Johnson, David Patten, Deion Branch, and a aging Troy Smith, Weis lead the New England offense to some pretty good stats, I will go into detail below.
2000-2001: Weis's first season with the Patriots. Not much to talk about here. The offense struggled all year.
2001-2002: Weis took a late round draft pick (Tom Brady), and molded him into an Super Bowl Winning quarterback. Knowing that Brady needed support due to his lack of experience, Weis crafted a running game that ranked 13th in the NFL. The Patriots also scored a whole lot that year, coming in at 6th in scoring.
2002-2003: The running game that Weis built in the pervious year deflated, and the offense suffered. The passing game (12th) stayed strong, and so did scoring (10th). The Patriots missed the playoffs.
2003-2004: Weis continues to mentor Brady, and turns him into a top 10 quarterback in the league. Passing was ranked 9th, and scoring ranked 12th. The run game was non-exsistent.
2004-2005: The Patriots finally acquire a suitable running back (Corey Dillon), and it pays off big time dividends. The patriots ranked very high in all major offensive categories.
2009 Notre Dame - Weis guided Notre Dame's offense to a ranking of 22nd in the nation. Jimmy Clausen, Golden Tate, and Michael Floyd flourished under his system. Clausen and Tate are projected to be 1st round picks in the 2010 NFL Draft.
The argument for Weis being overrated is preposterous. One can say that Weis has never led a top 15 offense in the NFL, but without delving into the stats the truth cannot be unveiled. During the Patriots run, the offense didn't have much help in the run game. They were a pass first team. Poor rushing statistics dragged down the overall ranking of Weis's offenses over the course of his career in New England. As you can see, the one year that the run game was top 10, Weis was provided with a back who could execute his scheme, and the entire offense succeeded greatly. Over his 5 years in New England, Weis's passing game was top 15 twice, and top 10 once. His running game, top 15 once, and top 10 once. Total yards, top 10 once. And scoring, top 15 once, top 10 twice, and top 5 once. Weis's speciality is passing and scoring. In 2009 the NFL is a passing league, and Weis has often demonstrated the knack for calling a good game.
Weis will come in and mentor Cassel in a similar fashion to the way he mentored Tom Brady and Jimmy Clausen. He will also have a dynamic weapon in Jamaal Charles, and the running game shouldn't be an issue. Like I stated before, I do not believe Charlie Weis is overrated. He led an offensive unit to the Super Bowl three times, and won all three, and doing so with very little talent. Seeing as how the New England Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since his departure, despite have dramatically more talent, is a testament to Weis. Weis is just what the doctor ordered for the Chiefs, and all I can say is Welcome Home Charlie! Time to give my friend a call, and chew him out!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Nice
I love the move to get Weis. Add a Crennel and we could be very attractive to FA’s with our money and new OC/DC.
by BJ Kissel on Jan 7, 2010 12:30 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yea I totally agree.
With us getting Weis we have also caught some eyes of some “to be” free agents out there. I dont know who we will pick up, but this is already becoming a fun offseason to observe. Hey if we pick up O’ Romeo thats even more kudos to pioli/hunt. But we all know it comes down to who we draft. I think the pickup of Weis and future pickup of Romeo will effect our draft. With the opinion of them. Who knows who we will pick up know. But its nice to know will have at least 3 solid football headed coaches scouting draft picks now.
by chiefs_fan05 on Jan 7, 2010 12:43 AM CST up reply actions
Gave me an idea for a new shirt
if we can Romeo under contract too, we can print out new shirts. They’d have Weis and Crennel on the front cover. The wording above them will say OC/DC. The back of the shirt will say “For Those About To Rock, We Salute You.”
Things to get the Chiefs back on the winning side of football:
1. Haley resign as offensive coordinator or do the following;
a. Feed JC more
b. Take the cuffs off of Cassel and let him air it out
2. Fire Clancy "Calls" Playslikeass
by kcchiefsfan72 on Jan 7, 2010 1:57 AM CST up reply actions
Make sure the back has the Arrowhead logo under it!
Good job!
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
Gotta say it....
What size shirt will it requre for them both to fit on the front?
I like the idea though.
I do as well.
Cannot wait to see this spread, and Jamaal in the single back formation, where he averaged 6.2 a carry!
Gonna be fun
The next four months is gonna be interesting
by BJ Kissel on Jan 7, 2010 12:40 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Very good post, Larry - rec'd
It both enlightens and frightens me. I expected to see much higher ratings. It’s true those NE teams weren’t dripping with O talent (did they even have any All Pros besides Brady and Dillon that one year?) but I expected to see higher ratings than that.
What is nice to see is that they were higher in scoring than yardage. The game is won by the team with the most points, not the most yards.
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
I wasnt expecting the running to be high
but i was expecting the passing, and scoring to be up there. Doing this research definitely solidifies my belief in Weis not being overrated.
Can *anybody* explain what "style" offense Weis runs?
I have watched this year’s chiefs a lot, the Weis era patriots some, and not too much of his ND era. His offense is supposed to match Haley’s but I must say I am not exactly sure what that means b/c Haley’s offense in AZ seemed so much different than that in KC (not only in execution but in the play designs themselves).
I would be your best friend if you can tell me:
1) what kind of changes that one could expect with Weis coming in?
2) What kind of offensive personnel do you think will most be needed to make this style “Click”. ie, while I know this won’t be as drastic as moving from a 4-3 to 3-4 defense, I would imagine that there may be some particular positions of need with him coming in?
Can't answer your questions but I think the offense Haley ran in AZ was K. Whisenhunt's offense, not Haleys, KC's offense this year was Haley's vision
I watched a few quarters of some ND games this year, but not enough to make a comparison to whether Weis’s offense looked more like Haley’s in KC this year or NE’s.
2009-10 Predictions:
1. Chiefs will win ATLEAST 6 games, which is a big improvement over 6 wins in 2 seasons
2. Succop will bring stability to the K position for the first time in years
3. Chiefs D will atleast double the number of sacks form last season
4. Cassel will be a top 15 QB
5. Todd Haley won't make a poster and jump around holding it up welcoming the Chiefs players to summer camp, I mean TRAINING camp
The interesting thing is how many points they scored, not how many yards they racked up.
Offensive rankings are just done in total yards. Look at 2001, where they were 19th in total yards but 6th in points scored. That’s impressive.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
I have no idea if he'll be great or not.
The truth is, he’s going to be a big improvement for the following reasons. 1) Todd Haley will no longer be the OC. 2) Weis has experience. 3) Weis runs the same offensive system Haley runs.
If he’s going to be great for the team or for Cassel, then it’ll be reflected in the kind of person he is and the job he does. At this point, that’s all gravy. Getting Haley out of that role was the most import step.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I agree in principle at least.
Regarding your last sentence. Getting Haley out of the OC job is big. Not that he sucked at it. But as we’ve all said a thousand times before, having so many responsibilities is way too much to realistically take on. Now hopefully he’ll be able to concentrate on the overall picture, and input on the offense when need be. We already saw this year (assuming the Croyle story regarding the Castille TD is true) that the system is open to suggestion. That’s one part I want to see stay. If somebody has an idea, give it a shot. Just might win you a game.
Yup. Agreed.
I don’t necessarily think Haley is a bad OC either. I think he was bad at being HC, OC and QBC.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I believe what won it mostly for those Patriots was their defense..
And just to overall balance of the team. IMHO you don’t need to necessarily have the greatest offense to win SBs. Defense wins Championships.
Think back to our offense under Vermeil. Unbelievable, but we were one and done simply because we didn’t have a defense.
And one of the most freakish seasons of all time was when the Baltimore Ravens won it all with that horrendous offense back in 2000 was it? It was that defense.
So while yeah, I’m happy with this supposed hire, our defense flat out sucks and has for years.
So until that shows improvement, we will be set in the always looking up mode.
Rowdy
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