What The Chiefs Can Learn from This Year's Super Bowl Entrants: Part One
by Matt Conner on Jan 25, 2010 11:53 AM CST
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintWith the contenders set for the ultimate title fight, we're now offered a chance to look at just what it takes to win in the current NFL climate. It's interesting to look at both the Colts and Saints and dissect the reasons they were the ones left standing when the final bell rang. Of course, the Vikings threw away their chance and the Jets certainly seemed like they would advance when watching the first half of the AFC Championship. But in the end, the teams we look to emulate are the ones who were undefeated for most of the NFL season.
If there's anything we've learned in this 2009 season, it's the same things we've come to learn in the several years up until now: you rise and fall with the quality level of your QB. Of the final four teams, three were quarterbacked by Peyton Manning, Brett Favre and Drew Brees. The other featured a dynamic rookie coming into his own, but that team only made it on the back of the NFL's top defense armed with the NFL's top defensive mastermind in Rex Ryan. In other words, if you don't have a top-notch NFL QB, then you better have the best defense (and even then it didn't work).
The bottom line: You have to have the quarterback to win.
The laundry list of examples is endless: David Carr ruined the Texans; Alex Smith is hanging by a thread with the 49ers who undoubtedly will finally move on this off-season; the Raiders QB situation is the laughingstock of the NFL; Jason Campbell's middling abilities are endlessly frustrating to Redskins fans; Tarvaris Jackson nearly ended Brad Childress' head coaching career before they wised up and moved on signing Favre; the Browns juggled two bad choices all season in Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson; the Lions finally invested at the key position with QB Matt Stafford after high-profile acquisitions at every other position still left them in the cellar.
You get the point. You either have a winner - someone who can carry you to the next level with the right talent around him and the correct schemes that work - or you do not. And when you do not have it, you don't continue to add new talent around him, hoping that he can change. Of course, it takes a bit of time to figure this out and that's what the Chiefs have been doing this year. But if there's any modicum of doubt after 2010, the Chiefs would be wise to forget they lost a second round pick for Matt Cassel and just move on (or bring in some dynamic competition).
I'm not at all down on Matt Cassel. I loved his single season in New England and, honestly, I'm a lame assessor of talent. He's not had a fair shot this year given the talent around him and he definitely deserves a chance to build on some signs of life displayed in Kansas City. However, it's clear that the way to continually win in the NFL is to have the right guy at one key position. And if the Chiefs have any doubts about Cassel's ability to helm a playoff-caliber team year in and year out, they need to call it when they see it. At least, that's what the winners do.
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Here is what I learned from the Saints
They are extremely lucky, haven’t been playing good football in over a month, and are going to get steamrolled by the Colts. Normally I don’t like the adage “They didn’t win the game, we lost the game”, but it stands true yesterday. The first 2 or 3 fumbles, ok…things happen, but 6?!?!? 6 freaking fumbles in a Championship game?!?! Seriously Childress? 12 men in the huddle after a timeout? Really?
I still feel sick.
Ohhh Brett...One more year! One more year! One more year!
Superbowl Prediction - Colts 41 Saints 23
by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2010 11:59 AM CST reply actions
I don't like it either,
but the Vikes gave the game away. The Colts will not give the Saints that many gifts.
Here's why you are wrong about the Saints...
The Colts Can NOT put the same kind of pressure on Drew Brees that the Vikes did. I’m not saying that because I don’t like the Colts and don’t think their defense is good. I actually think their D is very good but, they would have to bring 7 guys consistently in order to create that kind of pressure. The Vikes can do it with just their front 4. Freeney is the only good pass rusher they have. Brees is going to have LOTS of time to throw the ball and will have a much easier time against the Colts defense as opposed to the defense they played yesterday.
Also, the Saints defense is GREAT at causing turnovers. I’m not going to say that they will get 5 turnovers like yesterday but, they WILL win the turnover battle vs Indy. You can call it luck if you want but, that wasn’t luck that they forced Minny into all those fumbles. The Saints players MADE AP fumble. They consistently got their hands in on the ball and either stripped it or hit it with their helmets. If it were just this one game…maybe you could say they were lucky but they have forced turnovers all year…Its part of their game and that’s how they won so many games.
IMO the Saints vs the Colts is the best matchup. It will be a great game and I think it’s cool that the two top teams got in this time. I don’t really see how you can say the Colts are going to blow them out. Statistically, the Saints have been the TOP rated offense this year and have done VERY well against teams that don’t run the ball well and… the Colts DON"T run the ball very well.
I’m not saying the Saints will win but, I can’t see how anyone can think they don’t deserve to be there. Other than a couple of bad games at the end of the year, they looked like the HANDS DOWN best team in the league for most of the season.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jan 25, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed!
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Jan 25, 2010 1:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Mathis is also a good pass rusher
other than that, I agree with everything else.
Are you a part-time Vike fan too, Craig?
I have to admit, I wanted MN in pretty badly…but I wanted TRich on the other sideline too.
Oh well—NO v/s Indy “should” make for good football, in theory. In reality you might be right.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Jan 25, 2010 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
We will find out very early in this season if Cassel is the right guy.
This past year wasn’t all his fault, so I’ll give him a pass. Don’t worry, I already talked to Pioli about it, and he’s totally OK with it all.
Their was not a QB in the NFL that could have got the Chiefs to the playoffs
The QB gets to much blame when things go bad . Cassel will be fine. We need to focus
on getting players on offense and defense that can help the team.
i know one who could
tyler thigpen
Incompetent
by Basta on Jan 25, 2010 7:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Errr...
I’m not sure using this year’s results of three potential Hall-of-Famers is a fair assessment of what it takes to get to the Super Bowl.
See Data Differently.
beyondtheboxscore.com | Twitter: @ justinbopp
QB's
Cassel is probably not going to be as productive as Brees, Favre or Manning, but he could provide the Chiefs with a more productive QB than Sanchez. Jets were not taking any chances with Sanchez and who can blame them. The guy is INT prone when he puts the ball into the air too much. Jets could have won with more production from the passing game. Point is build a better D and OK offense and Cassel can lead the team to the SB without being Pro Bowl material.
in the case of
Colts v. Saints…great QB’s have great WR’s or a good consistent core
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
1) How to win 2) How not to lose even when your losing.
3) GET A QB UP IN HERE THAT IS ELITE!!!
YOU Must have the elite QB to be elite in this league! Pioli go get Manning
Yeah Right, And after Pioli
does that, I can go and punch out God. I love ya, Kray, But, Damn.
by BetterRedThanDead on Jan 25, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish I could see BetterRed punch out God.
I think all three of us would find it hilarious. And then we’d get smited.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Jan 25, 2010 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
Is that Eli, or Peyton?
An elite QB is a big time advantage. No doubt about that. Simms, Hostetler, Theismann, McMahon and that guy for Baltimore I can’t remember all won SBs and were not elite QBs. Denver lost 3 SB’s and had an elite QB. You can win with the right team and system in place and an adequate QB.
No doubt no doubt. I have never quite figured out why we here in KC especially.
Like just KC fans only I have ever heard have such a hang up about QB’s. I’ve never known any fan base to get pissed when someone mentions how great it would be to have a Peytonesque QB at our helm.
Is that like evil or something? Am I supposed to wish we had the hot dog guy as our QB or something? What did I miss? I didn’t say anything that any fan shouldn’t wish for anyway. No one get’s mad if you say how cool it would be to have Andre’ Johnson in Red and Gold. But for some reason, if you say anything about wishing we had a superior elite QB here people go apeshit. It’s like " NO WAY MAN, we don’t want an elite qB here. That’s just stupid. Let’s settle for whoever isn’t good and stick with that". LOL I’m serious people get silly over that stuff.
I’m sorry if I want an Elway or a Peyton here in KC. Apparently most of us do not want that for our team. But I do. Simms, Hos, McMahon all made the SB true. But they didn’t have staying power. The Colts have set a record for years making the playoffs in a row. ALL because of Peyton. When he leaves a game. They fall apart. The Patriots hold several records of all time for season wins and playoff births etc. ALL under Brady. I’m not saying anything evil.
All I said was it would be great to have a QB that keeps your team in the hunt every year. There’s a HUGE difference between what Hostettler did and what Brady did. Which would you choose if you had the choice? Would you take Marino or Blackledge? Elway or McMahon? You see? I’m not saying anything Satanic guys. I just think the QB position is WAY too important. You MUST have that ELITE guy at the helm if your going to STAY an elite team.
I thought the concensus on AP was that we don’t want a one hit wonder here. No one wants a one year McMahon here. We want a Peyton Manning here. Why wouldn’t we? Why is that so crazy? People are all the time talking about how Wilfork will be a FA. Boldin will be free. People got excited with the addition of Chris Chambers. Why? Because your supposed to feel happy when you get a game changer at any position.
And what position is more important than the QB? NONE!! I didn’t bash Cassel. I didn’t ask for his head. But if Pioli can draft our next Joe Montana, that can lead us for 12-15 years or more. You wouldn’t want the guy? You would cut him? You would bench him for being amazing? I doubt it. I think your reading some emotion into my comments that weren’t intended.
Sorry for wanting the best for my Chiefs.
I agree with you, krayfish
Nothing against Cassel…I think he did okay for what he had to work with. He might even become a good QB in this league someday.
But, if we had the chance to draft a really good prospect at QB to develop? I’d say, take the chance. Because that’s all it is, a chance. And sooner or later, you have to take that chance. That’s about the only way you can have any hope of getting an “elite” QB. It’s not too often somebody is going to give you one.
i stand behind u krayfish
I brougt this issue up a couple weeks ago saying what if we nabb bradford this year and start the grooming process. I mean what would it hurt. I would love and elite q and I’m tired of seein flaccos pass us by sanchez I can get over that one he’s not that great but flacco is a stud. We need to pick up an elite qb to take us to the next level cassel in my opinion is pretty good but he needs to come into his own learn a great offense and flourish it just takes time. And who knows if he can do it. If bradford falls in our lap I would pull the trigger for one the guy has a cannon can make all the throws and his accuracy is pretty damn nice. And he won’t have to jump in the line up so quick. And cassel or bradford would have good trade value in the future if cassel pans out or doesn’t.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Jan 25, 2010 2:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
ME TOO SA!! That's all I've been saying. Everyone just takes it too far.
It’s like nobody wants to let go and dream a little. It’s okay for us to want the best here. We don’t have to live in the shell Peterson created for us. Those days are gone. Let’s dream it up.
If Bradford's shoulder is worth anything, and he doesn't go 1st round maybe.
I think some team will snag him early—and if it’s us, I think that’s a wasted pick right there. But as a value (round 2) choice? SB would be awesome…a good hedged bet, or potential trade bait down the line.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Jan 25, 2010 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
somewhere on another post
I saw that he’s a junior staying for his senior year.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Always in motion is the future.
-- Yoda
...I thought he'd decided to go.
Once my morning appointments are wrapped up, that’ll be worth Googling….
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Jan 26, 2010 9:26 AM CST up reply actions
Relax Kray
I wasn’t saying your Satanic for wanting a QB like Elway. Just offering a different perspective. Aikman is considered an elite QB, but there is no way Aikman could put the numbers Brees and Manning are putting up. He had a great supporting cast, which made him look very good.
All I’m saying is try to assemble the support around Cassel that Aikman had and then we can win the SB. Maybe even multiple ones. NY and the Bears could have won multiples with Simms and McMahon, but just didn’t. Ran into some quality comp. and lost is all. Brady, Elway and Montana were all great, but had great supporting casts as well. So it is not all on the QB to win. Peyton and Dan Fouts put up amazing numbers, but only one SB win between them.
My advice to SP would be to draft that guy from Iowa and groom him for the QB position just in case Cassel does not work out. He is a winner and has good skills. He also may be the elite QB we are looking for.
I am hated for wanting the same things....
Sorry for wanting the best for my Chiefs.
I will not even try to apologize for that either…..And if your not down with that, I got 2 words for ya
by bonesjackson on Jan 27, 2010 2:00 AM CST up reply actions
Baltimore = Trent Dilfer (TRENT DILFER ?!?!?!?!?!?!)
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Always in motion is the future.
-- Yoda
Thanks! I can never remember him.
Getting too old.
Yeah Pioli while your at it bring in Sterling Sharpe, Jerry Rice, Elvis and JFK...
Give us a break Kray. You’re hatred of Cassell is becoming a bit obsessive. (eye-roll)
I didn't say anthing about Cassel. Your obsessed. Where is his name? All I said
was I want an elite QB here in KC. Do you not want that? Do you not want Cassel to be great for us?? Seriously. You want Cassel to suck and ruin it for us. Well not me. If Weis can make him elite, then we are set!! Way Set. That would be the greatest gift ever. I want that. But if not…IF NOT…one more time…I F N O T ..then we have to start addressing the issue. Why doesn’t anybody but me want a dynasty here?
why is everyone so quick to settle?? comeon people. We’re building a team from scratch. We can make this anything we want. We are making our own dream team right now. From the ground up. I want an elite QB here. If it’s Cassel, then so be it. I’ll wear his jersey and buy his shoes man. I want him to be great. I didn’t bash him. You made that up because you inferred what you wanted to read into my comment. I didn’t bash cassel.
by krayfish on Jan 25, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Bashing him is different than saying I have yet to see the guy dazzle me in a KC uniform.
Geez. People read whatever they want to into your comments on here. I NEVER said Cassel sucks he’s a piece of shit QB and needs to go. That’s bashing. Saying that I will not make a knee jerk reaction, good or bad on a position that is THE single most important position on the team, and therefore will wait to praise Cassel and sell out on him until I SEE that happen here is not bashing. It’s reasonable. It’s logical. And trust me Pioli thinks the same way.
If Cassel does not step up. Do you think Pioli is going to over look it? Of course not. That’s so silly. Why are we even arguing because I want the best for our team? Stop.
It seems however all season long you critizized without ever taking into...
..account the surrounding cast. I am sorry, but most of the time it just seems you focused on him instead of the receivers, poor blocking by 2.7 and so on.
Sticking up for Kray here but...
I know what Kray has said about Cassel and it was usually after Cassels HORRIBLE games like, the first game against SD where #7 played as horribly as any QB I have ever seen. Taking unnecessary sacks, missing WIDE OPEN receivers, overthrows, underthrows, poor decisions etc.
Let’s face it…when Cassel played badly, it was as bad as anything I have ever seen. It was impossible not to criticize him after some of his performances this last year. At the same time, he had some games where he played okay. Never great but okay. In fact, I would say his best game was against oakland in wk 2 where we lost at the end. He was still hurt at that point but played very well.
All that said, I think he will be much better next year with some new blood and an OC who has a great rep for his work with QBs.
If not…he needs to go!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jan 25, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty much
Let’s face it…when Cassel played badly, it was as bad as anything I have ever seen.
Denver @ Chiefs was Ryan Leaf like
by bonesjackson on Jan 27, 2010 2:02 AM CST up reply actions
crashman, look ... kray doesn't bash Cassel ... I do
I have abd will continue to do so unless and until he proves he’s a good QB … until then he’s no more than a “caretaker” and not a great one at that … and I’d far rather develop Croyle than see Cassel lead us to noplace special
you want to jump someone, jump me … I do NOT think Cassel is good, he’s marginal at best (IMNSHO) and I’m proud to stand up and say that Croyle has a far better arm, better pocket awareness, seems to read defenses better/faster and, ultimately … if developed right … would be a far better QB option than Cassel
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
upamtn...
I’ll ride with you on your assessment of Croyle. He does have FAR more upside. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a better chance this year to prove himself.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jan 25, 2010 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
I’m proud of you for using the IMNSHO qualifier, upamtn. ;)
I kid, I kid…
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Jan 25, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
We all agree with wanting an elite QB
But, Kray, you have to temper that with reality. Where are you going to find a GUARANTEED elite QB? It’s much easier to say than to actually do. The Patriots didn’t think they were drafting an elite QB when they drafted Brady. On the other hand, Todd Marinovich and Ryan Leaf were supposed to be guaranteed elite QBs but clearly were not.
It would be stupid for us to draft QB with number 1 pick every year which is what it sort of seems like you think we should do in order to obtain this elite QB. Pioli will pick up late round QBs I’m sure. We’ll all hope somebody pans out. But, draft a “guaranteed elite QB” with your first pick with great caution.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Always in motion is the future.
-- Yoda
well duh...of course we're not getting Manning...again...reading into shit I say.
I don’t want him now anyway. He’s too old to come in and be our franchise guy at this point. He would be another patchwork fix it quick job like Peterson used to do with guys like Montana and Kreig. NO MORE. I want us to have our eyes open to the fact that Cassel MAY not become that elite QB for us. If NOT, then we should start thinking about it.
It seems though you have the preconception that this front office wil continue to make the same mistakes that Petersona nd crew did.
It’s like you expect every QB we bring in is another Blackledge. either way, I agree to disagree. Have a good one.
Luck of the draw and # 1 seed in playoffs
We learned its good to be at home during the playoffs. The Vikings would not gave the game away if they were at home. The Colts being a # 1 seed in the playoffs were lucky to draw the Ravens and the Jets.
Archie Manning was an Elite QB
If you would have switched Bradshaw or Staubach with Archie Manning in the 70’s.
The Saints still would have still sucked and Archie would have been a HOF. Be careful what you ask for. If the Chiefs don’t want Cassel, their are a lot of teams that want him.
The only QB we could get are in the draft or Vick. I’m glad Pioli is the GM . I’m happy with Cassel
Exactly right
People want an elite QB,but who exactly could we get?
Brees, Manning, Rivers, Brady…Favre?
Out of that list the only one who I would actually like to see in KC is Brees, the others I would hate here because of who they are, but they can play.
Our only shot at getting an elite QB right now is by developing one. I think Cassel can be one, he just need some bigger weapons around him. If not him, then we need a good pick from the draft.
Charlie Weis is the wildcard here...
When Tom Brady came into the league NOBODY thought twice about him. He was a 6th round draft pick and a backup behind Bledsoe who had been up and down for most of his career. Bledsoe was having an OUTSTANDING year at NE when he got hurt. Then. here came Tom Brady who got off to a rough start but did enough to help them win some games. A REALLY bad call in the Championship game and, voila! Tom Brady was a superstar and Bledsoe was on his way to Dallas.
Charlie Weis IS the guy who made Tom Brady who he is AND was also the guy who helped bring Bledsoes career back from near obscurity. No coach in the league is better at turning mediocre QBs (Cassel) into Championship level players…Brady has said it himself.
I feel SO much better about Cassel knowing that he is going to be working with Charlie Weis. I think #7 is going to surprise a lot of people next year. Regardless of what the Chiefs do next year, I think Cassel will have a Pro Bowl type season.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jan 25, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
Certainly Weis is a big unknown factor where Cassel is concerned.
I hope he makes Cassel that guy for us. I really do. That would be the best news I’ve ever had as a KC fan. We deserve that type of QB here. I think we almost have ourselves brainwashed into thinking we don’t deserve better here in KC or something.
I feel way better about Cassel with Weis too. If Cassel can become elite. I’m thrilled. If not, he’s 28 and we need to start looking.
Bottomline
You don’t have to run the 3-4 to win games in the NFL
D.J. #56 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
The only thing more lame than mock draft's is the sarcasm font.
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 25, 2010 12:37 PM CST reply actions
Where did that come from?
To that I’d say, but you should run a system you’re familiar with to win games in the NFL.
It's like telling Bill Walsh
not to build a team for the West Coast offense, and tell him to use the Air Coryell built team that he already has.
So:
You have to have a good QB to win = obvious
Giving up on Cassel = premature
All the final four teams in general had one noticeable thing: Great offensive line play throughout the entire season. That’s the real emphasis for the Chiefs right now
home, of the....CHIEEEEEFS!
Well
There is no QB in the draft or FA that could do better than Cassel this coming season….
So without the “elite QB” I want to go big with defense in the draft.
Our offense will be fine with JC Cassel Bowe and hopefully Chambers.
Defense wins the game. The Saints and Colts can both score a lot but who can make the stops, who can for the 3rd and long, who can put up a wall in the red zone..
I am a BIG believer in defense first….I gotta mention Ro’ McClain…he would satisfy my hunger for D
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Jan 25, 2010 12:52 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I say stick with Cassel as well
It is hard to argue with your love of defense especially after watching the Saints and Vikes. If the Vikes D wasn’t so good they would have lost the NFC Championship by 21, or better with all those turnovers. In the end the two best offenses carried the day. I know it is obvious, but the team needs some more O especially since the teams we are chasing all have incredible offenses.
I thought Cassel had an incredible year, especially in retrospect
Let’s look at what the guy went through. He came to a team with a lot of talent questions and (as is usual on losing teams) locker room issues as well. He has to learn a new offensive system with new coaches and players. Then, during the preseason, the OC is fired and you have to learn ANOTHER new offensive scheme. Your O line is porous and your “star” RB doesn’t give a damn so no one worries about your running game. In the midst of constant pressure, running for your life and taking shots, when you do get a decent pass off your receivers are likely to drop it. On top of that you don’t have a full time OC or QB coach to help you with your reads or mechanics in the midst of all this. Your O line and receiving corp is constantly changing as your GM beats the bushes to find players who can fit – all well and good but it destroys continuity. Then your “star” RB, who’s been grumbling all season blows up in a twitter rage and gets suspended and cut. The best WR you’ve had the most chance to work on timing with (despite coming in to OTAs totally out of shape) gets suspended four games. Your already porous O line starts losing starters to injury. The defense was typically porous and had difficulty holding the few leads you give them, requiring that you try and make plays.
Despite all this the guy kept his cool, kept the team together, and only once, during the first San Diego game, did he get that “I’m shell shockedt” look. But after that he still pulled it back together. This team didn’t fall apart despite tough losses, blow outs, and a tough schedule – and that only happens if the QB is helping to hold things together.
I think Cassel was an island of calm in a season of chaos. He didn’t come in and have a Pro Bowl year, or prove that he will have. I’m not sure ANY QB could have, even the very best. But he did far better than I think all but a few QBs would have done in this situation. He’s shown me a hell of a lot in doing this. I think it shows he has a real possibility of developing into “the real deal”. The next couple of seasons will tell for sure, but it’s a tremendous mistake to not recognize what he accomplished this season.
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
by Big Chief on Jan 25, 2010 12:54 PM CST reply actions 7 recs
Incredible???? Really? See I can handle logic. But that's the kind of stuff that I can't take seriously.
I didn’t even finish the comment. Incredible is just a ridiculous thing to say. Good for the circumstance’s is one thing. Showed potential is another. but “INCREDIBLE”?? you must be a comedian.
I agree
I’m not debating that he had alot going against him…but to call it an incredible year?
Are we so QB starved that we’d concider a QB with a 70 qb rating “incredible?”
Ohhh Brett...One more year! One more year! One more year!
Superbowl Prediction - Colts 41 Saints 23
by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
After watching "elite" QBs fold under the kind of pressure that Cassel took week in and week out
I think incredible is the right word. If you read my comment, I state it’s no indicator that he’ll be a pro bowler, but what he did this year was impressive. Sorry if you can’t see that, but I do.
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
Meh!
He was okay. Very inconsistent if you ask me. I understand what you are saying but there was nothing incredible about Cassel if you ask me…Other than the fact that he isn’t dead!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jan 25, 2010 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
The way I read it...
It was “incredible” that he came out of the season alive, for one. He didn’t throw in the towel, or quit. He never pointed fingers at teammates…and he never complained or whined to the press. He took a lot of hits, and kept coming back. He didn’t lose his composure through everything that happened during the season…when a lot of guys probably would have.
His play was obviously not “incredible”. Far from it. But, the fact that Cassel didn’t totally implode is certainly pretty damn impressive…if not “incredible”.
by Scott B. on Jan 25, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry Scott!
didn’t mean to step on your toes there.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jan 25, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you Scott, for getting my point
The job Cassel did this year is one of the keys to the continuing improvement of this franchise. If he’d come in and made the same mistakes I’ve seen from so many of the past Chiefs QBs this season would have been a step back, not forward.
He has things in his game that need work, but those are coaching things. His toughness and character is what impressed me, and those characteristics are the difference between an elite QB and a good QB. Cassel still has a lot to prove and improve, but I also think he’s proven a whole lot this year.
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
I see what you're saying Big Chief
And I agree. Cassel has hope. Weis will make a huge difference in his performance this coming year.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jan 25, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
BugChief, just curious ... what mistakes, aside from the mistake of getting injured, have you seen with Croyle?
I’m on the “Cassel did an incredible job to survive the season” side of the fence and I firmly believe that Croyle has more “upside potential” … potential that I’d love Weis to develop and use
this (comment) isn’t to “Bash Cassel” though I don’t think he’s all that great, or will be for various reasons … my question is: is there something SPECIFIC about Croyle that you DISLIKE?
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
The main issue I have with Croyle is that he doesn't appear to be durable enough for the NFL
He wouldn’t be the first guy that’s true of – it’s been true of a many guys at many different positions. I do think he started to show some gun shyness last year, which gives me wonder if he can make it as a starter. Those two things would put him behind Cassel in my book. But he’s got a great arm, pretty good accuracy, and everything else I’ve heard about him sounds like he’s a class guy.
I know you’re a Croyle fan, and I think there’s a lot to like about the guy. It’s an easy thing to get fascinated by a strong arm, but in reality that’s about as sensible as Al Davis’ fixation with 40 times. There is a LOT more to being a QB than arm strength. The greatest QB of the last 20 years, Joe Montana, was never confused with Elway or Favre in arm strength. And the best QB in KC history, Len Dawson, wasn’t either. I’ll take toughness (mental and physical), leadership, decision making, or accuracy over arm strength any day of the week.
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
Thanks for trashing my comment without reading it, Kray
Good logic.
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
Or
Or you could say that this year’s playoffs “prove” that having an elite QB is no help at all, because you can have the #3 rated QB in the league, a former 4th overall pick in the draft, who threw for over 4200 yards and 28 TDs this year, with a solid team around him, and still get bounced in the first round at home by a 9-7 team starting a rookie QB.
There are many ways to win. Sure, the better your QB is, the better you’ll probably be. But it takes more than just that, and there are no guarantees.
by Offense of the 70s on Jan 25, 2010 1:27 PM CST reply actions
there is no
magic formula…right place, right time, etc. etc.
That is exactly right!
QB gets too much credit for sucess and too much blame for failure. There are many ways to win in football. The one way to win is have better players than the other teams at ALL positions. Marino, Fouts, Rivers and others were/are great QB’s, but their teams were lacking at other positions. SD and others have, or should have shown people the importance of winning sometimes coming down to a FG kicker. In short, you don’t need the best player at any position to win, just have a good team.
Nobody said anything about guarantees. I just said I want an elite QB at the helm?
You don’t want us to have an elite QB? Your opposed?
Not talking to you
Talking to the original post.
by Offense of the 70s on Jan 25, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
If Cassel can become elite thru Weis, then we have our guy.
I never said get rid of Cassel. I said I want an elite QB in here playing QB for us. Cassel or somebody else I dont’ care. Anyone that’s elite. I hope it’s cassels so we don’t have to look anymore.
if Cassel can become an elite QB from Weis ...
… I’d be the most surprised person on the planet
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
The ability to adjust quickly
I saw it twice in the Colts playoff games, coming in towards half time losing. What did we see? A quick change of pace resulting in a score before the break followed by a seemingly different team coming out the second half that just shut down the opposition.
Blame my wife!
Waiting until August 2010
Yup...That was a GREAT performance by the Colts...
Classic Peyton Manning.
trent dilfer
begs to differ about having a great QB to win the super bowl
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
What was that, 2000?
The league has changed to a passing league since then. Gone are the days where you could win solely with an elite defense and running game (thank God)
Ohhh Brett...One more year! One more year! One more year!
Superbowl Prediction - Colts 41 Saints 23
by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
It takes deadly weapons
On both sides… Playmakers and strong leadership.
It takes being able to score when needed and stop the other team when needed…. Like being down 17-6 and winning 30-17
"Its going to be a challenge, its going to feel like forever, and there will be difficulties. But we will emerge on the other side of it stronger than we were when we entered." ~ Sudden
by Matt_Grbac on Jan 25, 2010 4:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I have deadly weapons on both sides
If you want to see them, you’ll have to buy a ticket to the gun show
Ohhh Brett...One more year! One more year! One more year!
Superbowl Prediction - Colts 41 Saints 23
by craig in calgary on Jan 25, 2010 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
is that Dan Ackroyd?
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Destroyer ... yeah, Dilfer was not a very good QB, he happened to be on a team with a very good defense ... BUT ...
the point of the post was that MOST of the time you DO need a very good QB to get to the top of the heap … yes, sometimes even GREAT QBs screw up and fail (Favre case in point, horrible INT) … but most elite teams have elite QBs …
that was the point of the thing, and it’s a 100% accurate assessment
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Yup...just ask the Jets about that!
And yes, football is more exciting because of it.
Is it just me
Or does Cassel lack the arm to throw the deep ball. It seemed like every deep sideline route was under thrown.
by Chiefs2010 on Jan 25, 2010 6:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
it's not just you ...
Cassel does NOT have a strong arm, and often it’s not very accurate, either … two reasons I built and drive the Croyle Bandwagon
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
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