Should a HC call his own plays?
The argument has been that Haley showed his arrogance and inexperience in firing Chan and taking on OC duties last year. Further, for those who subscribe to this periodical(regular installments abound in chiefs nation), he got in way over his head and FAILED as the Chiefs HC. Some have even gone so far as to intimate that Haley made mistakes in game situations that even casual football fans wouldn't have made. I couldn't disagree with this more. There were reasons behind every decision he made last year including going for fourth down conversions. It is now apparent that Haley has indeed made strides in installing a new offense while he was calling those plays. It has recently been reported that Chan Gailey, the new HC of the Buffalo Bills, will call his own plays. He plans on employing an OC but will retain the play calling duties. What? Just exactly what would that OC do on game day? Fill in the colored boxes on Herm's old clipboard? Get the HC his favorite flavor of gatorade? More after the jump.
Some would argue that Gailey, with his years of experience, is more suited to handling this extra responsibility while being Head Coach. Indeed, Chan called his own plays while in the director's chair in Big D. Didn't Jerry Jones fire him shortly after giving him the job? I guess that didn't work out too well. Hey, I'm not bad mouthing Chan Gailey here, his record and experience stands on it's own. He has quite a resume and deserves the respect that goes with it. He did call plays in a couple of SBs(although Haley can put that on his sheet too). That level of respect, however, does not exempt Gailey from being the problem variable in the Haley/Gailey equation that resulted in Chan's removal. Haley catches hell for being arrogant here and I beg to differ. I think Gailey was the ego.
This little tidbit about Gailey, would seem to support the idea that Gailey wants play calling control. He announced it larger than life shortly after accepting the HC position in Buffalo. Why is that important right now? Couldn't that decision wait until a few months have passed and the coaching staff is more solidly in place before it had to be made? Wouldn't that be in the better interests of the team? It just resonates to me like someone who is making a statement about being the right choice at play caller. Why else was this news at this time?
It is my opinion that Haley wanted an OC but Chan was too inflexible in his game plan(or unable to grasp what was needed)to follow Haley's wishes. Both of these guys have run the EP offense so knowledge of it should not have been an issue. How to employ the offense was most likely the bone that had to be picked. Again, Haley was and is the HC. Whether his plan is right or wrong it is the plan. Chan's inability to get on board got him the hatchet, not Haley's arrogance. Haley simply believed he had no choice if he wanted to move forward. I would assume further that Chan's level of experience probably worked against him here, he had run this offense different ways and had his own preferences. That doesn't mean he was necessarily wrong, it just means that it wasn't what Haley wanted.
Haley is reportedly the first coach to run the Erhardt-Perkins with a zone blocking scheme. That's pretty heady stuff for an arrogant idiot like Haley to implement, right doubters? It took a year, but we have seen improvement on the o-line. In fact, combining Charles with this offensive blocking scheme could be considered genius. I mean, leading the AFC west in rushing and only starting half a season while setting records for yards gained in fewest carries says something about that combination doesn't it? Letting LJ take the beating while it was in it's infancy has to at least be considered intelligent.
You know, it is quite possible that Haley really is the boy genius that some of you want desperately not to believe. Horror of horrors! What shall we do? I really don't understand that attitude because if he is, what a wind fall for our beloved team! He is innovating things and marshalling support for those innovations. Could there be a better choice than Charlie Weis to assist Haley with this? Given their common background and knowledge of each others styles, it is difficult to argue otherwise. Can you imagine how much fun it will be for Haley/Weis to sit in a meeting and work on an offensive scheme and develop plays that have never been run before or in quite the same way?
So should a Head Coach call his own plays? I don't know. I think the answer lies in the availablility of competent and compliant OCs to properly assist the HC. The real ax I grind is using Haley's decision to do this as proof that he is arrogant when it comes to his job. It's time to get rid of the arrogant label given to Haley by the local media in KC that has been reinforced in the national media. The further down Todd Haley's "Road to the Playoffs" we get in Kansas City, the more it looks like that dog just won't hunt.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I think a lot of those seemingly stupid moves by Haley are now coming to light
that they weren’t so stupid after all. I was wrong. Apparently Chan had already made it clear that he could not work with Haley. It would have been detrimental to bring in someone simply for the sake of bringing someone in.
They waited for the right guy and it was too close to season to hire someone off the cuff like that. It kept our guys thinking and practicing in the vein that Haley intended for this team, so this year’s transition to Weis will actually be smoother than it would have been.
I don’t know if they should or not. But I think Haley had no choice.
kray, you're right TO A POINT ...
but here’s the thing: that’s all valid only if you buy into the notion that Haley’s system is INHERENTLY BETTER than Gailey’s system, and I don’t buy that it IS …
Haley has this system and wants to mold his players to fit it, regardless of whether they’re a good fit for it or not … Gailey molds his sytem to fit the talents and abilities of the players he has
is one better than the other? well, we saw what Haley’s system did … eventually … it’s not a BAD or HORRIBLE offense, but again, Haley is system guy, not player guy … Gailey is the opposite: do whatever fits the talents of your players, regardless of system (and yeah, I think we would have done better offensively with Gailey running it)
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
So you'd rather run the arrowspread
And draft players to fit it?
Or would you rather run an offense that is more well-known around the league, subsequently having more available players to fit it (and coaches to coach it)?
If we go with Chan’s vision, we’re right back where we were last season — running a version of the spread because our OLine is so terrible.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius
the Arrowspread was a desperation move born of necessity ...
… thing is, it worked … it did what it was intended to do: it got a team that had no business being on the field a way to score some points … that using a QB who starred at a college that didn’t even have football til he got there and a RB who … well, we know about that guy
I doubt that Gailey was thinking of using that exact same system for 2009 … did you see it the first two preseason games? were they using the Arrowspread from last year?? if so, I missed it …
Chan’s “vision” is simply to do what fits the talents of the players he has available … considering he made Thigpen look almost like a professional QB, I’d say that’s pretty damned good right there
in terms of …
our OLine is so terrible
… it seems like a lot of people think the OLine improved a bit the last part of this year … and of course, think of this: if Haley is such a visionary, why did he start 2.7 all year until he literally had no choice?
just saying …
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
I don’t know that Gailey would have fielded the spread exactly — word for word — but the talent level was equally bad this year as it was last year.
Surely he would have adjusted his scheme accordingly. How long before the desperation set in THIS season? And where does that put us for the following season, when we’re trying to draft guys to fit the scheme?
Regarding LJ — I never called Haley a visionary. He SAYS he only goes by what he sees in practice, and on film. I’m not sure what Charles was doing in practice that got him deactivated, but he apparently wasn’t showing that he was a Haley guy.
At the time, LJ was doing and saying all the right things. He was the feature back, and was showing it in practice. That’s all I believe it was.
He only started JC as the FEATURE back because he had to. JC still would have got his touches as a 3rd down RB behind Kolby, or whoever, and would have still had the opportunity to show his talent.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius
"why did he start 2.7 all year until he literally had no choice?"
That was actually addressed in the post.
The reasoning is because he (Haley) wanted to use a bigger, stronger back while the ZB scheme and the new offense was still in it’s infancy stage. Plus, JC still had protection issues and was still learning to be a pro RB. I believe Charles would have become our starter last year REGARDLESS of whether LJ stayed here or not…eventually.
The moves Haley made truly DO seem to be showing themselves to have been the right moves no matter what we all thought at the time…Especially, getting rid of Gailey when he did. Had the Chiefs not made that move, we would still be another year behind in the offensive development of this team.
Haley is looking pretty good to me right now. I think he is going to end being an AWESOME coach. It’s going to be a fun ride!
by Chiefsfan1970 on Jan 22, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
You've made quite the turnaround
If I recall you weren’t the biggest Haley supporter :-P
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius
by ArrowSpread on Jan 22, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
your theory is that fitting the game plan to your players is better than getting players to fit the game plan right?
So then at draft day, do we just randomly grab the best player out there, and see how it comes out at the beginning of the season? Gailey’s system somewhat worked towards the end of the season with a broken down line, a running back who couldn’t do anything, and a third string quarterback. It was straight up desperation. Did we put up points? yeah, but how many wins? How many times did Gailey’s system drive down at the end of the game to tie or win the game, and then a turnover occurs. Gailey’s system could easily be beat, because it was predictable. Yeah we got lucky a few times and started to look good, but all defenses had to do was wait out the lucky streak, and hold.
Haley wants to put a system in place, and then find people to put in it. So he knows who to look for in the off season, he knows who to draft, because he knows how the offense will work.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 21, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Gailey’s system somewhat worked towards the end of the season with a broken down line, a running back who couldn’t do anything, and a third string quarterback … Did we put up points? yeah …
imagine what Gailey could do with an improved line, Jamaal Charles and Cassel
moreover, look at the last half of the season … add the points, divide by 8 … then compare that to this year’s totals
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
Using the measuring stick that:
Gailey system = 2 wins
Haley system = 4 wins
It appears Haley’s system is twice as good as Gaileys systems. I know its not about wins.
Yeah...but we beat the donkeys like a rented mule.
ummmmmmm ... on Gailey ...
Didn’t Jerry Jones fire him shortly after giving him the job?
and didn’t Jerry Jones just give Gailey a ringing endorsement and say that, in retrospect, he (Jones) made a mistake?
why yes … yes he did
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whilock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!
That speaks volumes...
…about Jerry Jones. Another owner whose coaching decisions have cost him a 12 year drought in playoff wins. Why do you think he has already come out and said that Wade Phillips will return? First playoff win in 12 years is why.
I didn’t impune Gailey’s ability, I just said that it was Gailey’s ego that got in the way in KC, not Haley’s.
2 years as head coach
playoffs twice, and won the NFC East.
Better than average.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 22, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
Playoffs twice, yes
Playoff wins=0
Gailey has never pulled it off in the big chair. He and Marty have that in common.
Excellent article, Sir. Haley is so far form arrogant, but because some hack “journalists” (Whitlock, Babb)in KC don’t find him all soft and cuddly and willing to give them information, like his predecessor, they pushed that “arrogant” story. Those fans that don’t like change are/were more than happy to jump on that bandwagon, while pining for the good old days under the prior clowns, go with it. Haley is the biggest piece of fresh air this franchise has had in a couple of decades, and while I don’t agree with every move he made, both on and off the field, I am more than thrilled with the culture change he and Pioli are bringing. I’m a Gailey fan, but Haley did the absolute right thing in terminating him, after seeing during the exhibitions it didn’t work. Chan agreed with the move, as his recent statements show.
2 thoughts Rec Aiken
a. Did Marty Schottenheimer (who I think Haley most closely resembles in style) have the same sorta of media perception when he started out in Cleveland. Maybe UC knows.
b. Did Todd Haley (knowingly or at some point come to realize) that 2009 was his “gimme” year. Riding on the wave of changes to maybe not excell W/L wise. Some here would call it a “throwaway season”?
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
b.
Pioli (and subsequently Haley) knew coming in that it was about to get ugly before it could get better. Too many band-aids from CP et al. Both got a late start since Clark waited to get Pioli and Scott waited till after the SB to get Haley. Seems to me they always wanted Todd and were willing to wait to get him. Knowing full well that the OC and DC they coveted were either committed to or in Romeo’s case, that he was taking the year off to rehab. OK so maybe not so much with Weis but Chan wasn’t going to be the answer if he and Haley clashed in styles. I wonder who Todd’s original choice of OC was ‘if available’?
Nothing surprised me much about the manner in which they went about it. Even the firing/demoting/timing of Gailey.
Look back at the majority of our W/L predictions of the ‘09 season. We were cautiously optimistic at best but we all knew that change wasn’t coming overnight.
Seems pretty methodical, IMO Steve.But you know about hindsight……
by stenerud's roost on Jan 21, 2010 6:04 PM CST up reply actions
I guess it is the whole political thing
“WHEN” seems to be a big issue. Did Haley know it on the day he hired on, the day he demoted Chan, or the days after we got spanked by SD and the Denver Broncos.
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 21, 2010 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
Do you mean was he for it before he was against it?
I think that he expected to be extremely challenged based on what had gone before with the CHiefs and where he came from. It’s hard to tell if he changed his view points during the year.
Haley seems the type to be a force of will
I am somewhat amazed he didn’t blow at some point this season.
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 21, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
Had this been his first rodeo
he might have done just that. He has done/seen this before and his expectations have been tempered so far by the realities of the situation. Woe be the player who has the ability and intelligence to perform at a high level that screws up because of a lazy lack of focus. Remember the Devard Darling episode in training camp? What happens when that focus is lacking in a wild card game. Talk about a flash point! I think we may have seen shades of that with Anquan Boldin last year in AZ.
I don't know about Marty's perception in Cleveland...
…but based on Haley’s background, I would think that Haley absolutely knew that 2009 was not going to be his best season. He has been part of very bad teams in the past and been through the terrible, terrible times that those teams experience. On the flip side he has also been there when things turned around and respect was once again earned. I can tell you that if you can hold onto enough core players that go through that earning of respect, you have the basis for a tight knit team that will fight and die for each other. That attitude becomes infectious as time passes. This is what is needed for dynasties to exist.
I believe that Haley’s goals for his first year were heavily involved in laying that foundation. Sure, he woulda taken the wins if they had come, but no one believed that the Chiefs would challenge anybody so improving the W/L totals from the previous year was acceptable. Ending the year on the high note of beating the donkeys sure didn’t hurt either.
Agreed
The Bronco’s win saved a lot of off-season bitching and moaning.
Whether Haley has built that Cadre of Core players won’t be known for certain for a year or two.
Vrabel and Waters are the Yoda’s of this team how the handle this up-coming off-season will sway a lot of players on what the Chiefs Philosophy towards personnal truly is. The team has been decimated as the season went on (10% attrition) add another 10% in injuries. Total roster churn was 33%. numbers out of my butt but close IMO. Achurn rate like that year after year will Kill any progress made in 2009. Rambling a little but I hope you see my point
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 21, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
I would expect that turnover rate to decline
in coming years and then level off. I still hope it is higher than average and interpret that as practicing due diligence in upgrading talent. Hopefully it doesn’t mean that they continue to whiff at judging the talent potential of prospective players.
Yeah...but we beat the donkeys like a rented mule.
Yes and agree
As much as Haley/Pioli keep saying that they will replace whoever is necessary to improve our chances of winning, sometime the progression has to stop. Some sort of consistency has to develop in order to move forward. This is why I think that we may have more returning players than many believe at this point.
Upgraded talent
Will manifest itself in better overall team play immediately. Hopefully the bulk of the turnover is at the bottom of the roster or else we are spinning our wheels.
Yeah...but we beat the donkeys like a rented mule.
Might not be quite done yet
We have probably 7-8 spots where we have good backups starting. We probably won’t fill all those spots with NEW starters this off-season. We are not spinning our wheels. We have upgraded the backups to at least be possible starters when that injury bug hits. We need more talented starters to compete with the playoff teams.
We have lined up some talented coaches to train them. Pioli time, Cheers :)
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 21, 2010 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
Thus my major issue with Berry and Okung
Those spots are servicable. FS with Page and Albert at LT.
We could go OLB for Vrabel, but Vrabel will (if here) beat the newbie out at least in 2010 and Studebaker seems capable of filling that spot in the future. Hali is definitely a Rush Backer and if we could get the refs to throw the damn flag. Hali just looks like a mature stud when you see those shots of him on the sidelines later in the season :) Damn rambing again.
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 21, 2010 7:19 PM CST up reply actions
I'd like to get the future leader of the defense on the team
While Vrabel and Brown are still here. It would be good for a young guy with that leadership quality to learn under those guys for a year or two before they retire.
I read somewhere in the last 24 hours that a 3-4 doesn't have a SS and FS
Both safeties do the same type of job.
Any D guys out there is that correct? Are they more a SS or FS type player if the both do the same jobs?
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
Technically every team has both a Free and Strong Safety if they play two Safetys
The SS lines up on the left side (of the defense) because it is the strong side of the offense (offenses right) where they line up their TE and usually do their power running to the right (with the TE as an extra blocker).
That is why SS are usually bigger in size, comparable to a Linebacker (which is why all the idiots were always talking about moving Pollard to LB) because they will be used more in run support.
The prototypical FS is usually your coverage guy.
The 3-4 is just a base alignment. There are endless variations of how those players are deployed.
A team that blitzes a lot of linebackers might decide they want to play a lot of man to man with their CBs in which case they may decide it is better for them to have two Safeties that are quick and good in coverage.
Other teams that use their LBs more in coverage may decide they can sacrifice some coverage ability in a Safety for the added help in run support.
It all just depends on how the D.C. wants to use his guys and what type of guys he wants in those positions.
Thanks DJ
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 21, 2010 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
The problem is not with a head coach calling the plays
There have been plenty of very good head coaches that have called the plays and been very succesful.
The problem with Haley is that he was a ROOKIE head coach and had only been calling plays as an O.C. for a little over a season before. So essentially he was still fairly new and BOTH jobs and it showed. His game managment as a Head Coach was poor and his play calling was erratic.
I really think Matt Cassel suffered by not having a coach dedicated to developing him as well. Haley had never been a QB coach before. What made him think he was the right guy for THAT job?
Haley didn't want to be OC
When Haley was hired he said he didn’t want to be OC. He had no choice because
of Chan . Since he did not hire another OC last year we were able to get Weis this year.
Since the problem is fixed. I try to only think about problems we still have.
HC play calling should probably only be done on an interrim basis
during a transition if you will. If the coach has no other options, sure. Go for it, but you better hit the off-season OC search with a vengeance to fill that void. I’ve never been a big fan of it.
Having wasted no time in hiring Weis, my respect level for Haley has gone way up. I get why he did what he did although it was a bit clumsy. From a system standpoint it was the right call but he was clearly in over his head.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I'm on record as saying
that if Haley and Gailey weren’t seeing eye to eye, Haley made exactly the right move to relieve him. However, it’s perfectly reasonable to criticize Haley for not recognizing this at the outset. The fact that he did not until bare days before the season cost the Chiefs dearly in the first half of the year.
I don’t agree, though, that all of Haley’s gametime decisions were supportable. There were several that weren’t supportable by any reasonable standard. That’s what you get with a rookie head coach – and I will say that Haley’s gametime decisions improved as the season progressed.
Buck’s post has appeared as I write this, and I agree: Haley deserves a lot of credit for recognizing he could do better if doesn’t wear so many hats next season. That can’t be easy to do.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
Did Haley move from Esteem to self-actualization
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 21, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
I seem to be hanging in
"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 21, 2010 10:14 PM CST up reply actions

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