Arrowheadlines: Chiefs News 1/21
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 21, 2010 6:29 AM CST
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via www.kcchiefs.com
WR Amani Toomer is introduced at a press conference
Good Morning AP! Once again, your Kansas City Chiefs News from across the internet. Today, we start with a pretty damning review of last year's FA signings by Bob Gretz. Also, note the player tweets from an update on Kolby Smith's recovery.
The Chiefs football brain trust has spent the week in Orlando watching practices at the East-West Shrine Game. It’s just another step in the personnel process, along with next week’s Senior Bowl, the NFL Scouting Combine at the end of February and other events leading up to April’s NFL Draft.That’s just on the college side. On the pro side, the evaluations go non-stop all year for players from the start of training camp through the Super Bowl. Last year, the Chiefs acquired 16 players with experience of some kind in the NFL before they went to training camp...
...Here’s a look and grade on each of the veteran free agents or first-year players signed by the Chiefs before the start of training camp in the ‘09 season:
Free Agent Review … Thursday Cup O’Chiefs from Bob Gretz
Brian Schottenheimer grew up flinging the football to a Kansas state championship at Blue Valley High School. He was schooled in the Fun ‘n’ Gun attack at the University of Florida and followed that approach in his early years as an assistant in the NFL.
So what is Schottenheimer, the New York Jets offensive coordinator, doing by directing a power-running attack called Ground and Pound?
He’s winning.
Brian Schottenheimer's Jets a smash hit with his version of Martyball from KC Star
Rich Gannon had an immediate thought when he heard the Chiefs hired Charlie Weis as their new offensive coordinator, relieving head coach Todd Haley of the play-calling chores.
"If anybody’s ecstatic about this," said Gannon, the former Chiefs quarterback, "it should be Matt Cassel."
Having a coordinator of his very own should help Cassel from KC Star
Rasheed Wallace was in a joking mood in the Celtics' locker room Wednesday, before returning to the Palace floor as an enemy for the first time since he signed with Boston last summer after 5 1/2 years with the Pistons.
He called a Detroit news media member by a nickname he gave him last season. He boasted how his beloved Kansas City
Chiefs probably cost the Pittsburgh Steelers a playoff spot with a late-season upset. But he just laughed and walked away when asked if he could spare a few moments for the Detroit media. His custom of no pregame interviews hadn't changed.
Rasheed Wallace: Return to Palace was cool, wonderful from The Detroit Free Press
For the first time, the Kansas City Chiefs are a national sponsor of "Souper Bowl of Caring." This hunger relief program transforms Super Bowl week into the nation’s largest youth-led week of giving and serving. Schools, churches, and other community groups have raised over $60 million nationally since its inception two decades ago. The best part is that 100% of all donations go directly to food banks, soup kitchens, and other charities in our local market.
This year’s drive will take place in the weeks leading up to Super Bowl XLIV, on February 7, 2010. Now, we’re asking you to help us make this collection a success by joining our team. The Chiefs have four unique options for all Red and Gold faithful to step up and make a difference. You can easily join the Chiefs Souper Bowl of Caring team by participating in:
Chiefs Join With "Souper Bowl of Caring" to help Feed Hungry, Ask For your Help from The Mothership
Who Gailey selects as defensive coordinator is a mystery at this point. Herm Edwards, the former Kansas City Chiefs head coach who hired Gailey as offensive coordinator in 2008, said finding a guy who has the same vision as Gailey is a must.
"Chan is going to handle the offense. He knows it and he's very good at it," Edwards said. "But on the other side of the ball and special teams, who are the guys you are going to hire? He'll have to decide what kind of coaches he wants in there. That's the whole key as a head coach because you're only as good as the guys you surround yourself with. If he gets a good defensive guy to go along with his offensive expertise, it will be a positive first step."
Picking defensive coordinator is a priority for Bills' Gailey from The Buffalo News
Marcus Allen left the Raiders after 11 seasons because of a feud and contract dispute with Al Davis, when Davis called Allen a cancer to the team.
He went on to join the Raiders' hated rival, the Kansas City Chiefs.
During Allen's four-year tenure with the Chiefs, they won more games than any other team in the league...
...Allegedly, Allen put a hex on Davis by cursing a photo of him.
To this day, Allen keeps that picture in his freezer—and the Raiders will not win another Super Bowl as long as that picture is in Allen's possession.
And since Allen left, the Raiders have not won a single Super Bowl—although they got close in 2003.
NFL Curses: Ten Curses That May Be Plaguing NFL Teams from Bleacher Report
We just finished discussing the role of the defensive linemen in the 3-4 defense. If they’re not supposed to be the primary pass rushers, than who is? That responsibility would lie with the outside linebackers.
The group of players might have been the Chiefs best positional group as a whole in 2009. On one end you have the most feared pass rusher on your team, and on the other you have the "smartest player in all of football." Those two played virtually every snap when healthy, but when they weren’t the Chiefs got big-time production from their reserves.
Who are these guys? Let’s take a look.Insider Blog: Time To Recap The Defense from The Mothership
and just because...
Alors que son frère Mathieu disputera son premier match dans l’uniforme du Canadien de Montréal ce soir, Jean-Philippe Darche a fait savoir qu’il avait définitivement fait une croix sur sa carrière de joueur de football professionnel.Darche n’a pas joué la saison dernière après avoir été remercié par les Chiefs de Kansas City durant l’été. Il avait terminé la saison précédente sur la liste des joueurs blessés et a dû subir une opération au genou.
Jean-Philippe Darche ferme les livres, pour en ouvrir d'autres From Rue Frontenac
Player Tweets
almighty31 NY minute ft Mase #FREEMAXB http://www.ustream.tv/channel/murdahbaby Im cohostin
MrKolbySmith My man!! It all started p the #theville with Rocco. Lol RT @kerryrhodes: Tune in to NBC to watch me on the couch w (cont) http://tl.gd/4hu3e
MrKolbySmith Not yet. Very soon? RT @MiaFBaby: @MrKolbySmith are you off those damn crutches yet?
almighty31 doin my books. gotta make sure my money rite
JWilliams48 Been home for almost a week now visited the family and ate a couple good meals...now time to get back right
Media and Fans
Adam_Schefter RT @MoveTheSticks: Said all along that I thought Dez Bryant was better WR coming out than Crabtree. Havent found a scout/exec that disagrees
nubnquencandice: @ddockett add moving to the Chiefs to that list...(i hear there may be some sleeper$$$) hiding in the organization!
nubnquencandice: Goodnight all... I have #58 #Chiefs D.Thomas on my heart tonight. Don't know why but God has placed him her. Goodnight Falcon, R.I.H
Oscariinn15: @Arthurlaker13 EFF B Marshal!!! Unless he goes to the chiefs! Lol
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lol @ the EFF B marshall tweet!
thanks NJ Chiefs Fan. I love starting my work day with chiefs highlights
by Kirk7 on Jan 21, 2010 7:22 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Gretz FA Review
I have to say I think he was way too harsh on several of the player grades. Some of those guys were only signed as training camp fodder so you can’t expect a lot of them an so what if they were cut in training camp. And Mays may not be the best MLB in the game but the guy was signed to play special teams and ends up a starter, how is that not an A grade.
Gretz acted like all of these players should be starters with Pro-Bowl talent. But most FA that are signed are just depth not top quality starters.
Just because you're a starter doesn't mean you're a good starter
by Joel Thorman on Jan 21, 2010 8:06 AM CST up reply actions
True
If you are a starter but were signed to play special teams then that is a good FA signing because you got more that you thought out of that signing. If Mays had just been a special teams contributer then it still should have been a C or better because that is what he was signed to do.
To grade FAs I think you have to look at what role they brought them in for then grade based on did they fill that role © exceed it (A) or fail all together (F).
Either that or...
If you are a starter but were signed to play special teams then that is a good FA signing
….. a piss poor job of them hiring a starter, and having to settle for a ‘special teams’ guy to try and anchor your defense.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 21, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
right
he seems to equate Cassel or Vrabel with a much-less-important training camp wide receiver.
Conversation b/t Special baseball operations consultant Zapp Brannigan and GM Dayton Moore: "...but paper covers rock and rock crushes scissors...we have a conundrum. Get me some paper, a rock, and some scissors."
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 21, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Dumb Gretz grades
For Cory Mays, he says the Chiefs got much more out of him than they expected, and that he finished with 100 tackles as a starting linebacker. So that gets a C?? A guy who cost nothing and exceeded expectations and was productive should get an above average grade as a signing.
Meanwhile, Vrabel made a lot more money, was expected to be good, and finished with 65 tackles. And that gets a B?
No consistency in a lot of the grades.
Also, some of the vet free agents like Engram were brought in to be character guys, to establish a different culture on the team and to lead the young guys by example. Their play on the field this season wasn’t really that important, since they were only going to be here for a season that the team knew was going to be a tough one, and then they’d be replaced by someone younger.
by Offense of the 70s on Jan 21, 2010 7:55 AM CST reply actions
if you're making the tackles 10 yards downfield
as Mays did too many times, you aren’t doing your job
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
more than expected
Gretz himself says that KC got a lot more than they expected from Mays. He cost very little. How is that a C? So everyone you sign to be a backup and special teamer needs to become a starter with 100 tackles in order to be graded as average.
Expectations and value have to be part of the grading, or else it’s pointless.
by Offense of the 70s on Jan 21, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
It depends on how you are grading them...
…if you are grading them based upon what they actually produced on the field (an honest assessment of their play) then I would say that a C was a very generous grade. Mays may have been brought in to just be a special teams guy, but that’s not how it worked out. He ended up starting as the ILB.
If you grade his performance as an ILB without muddying the waters by considering what he was brought in to do then yes… C is about right, maybe too high.
If your object is to hand out grades that take into account what you THOUGHT a guy was gonna do, and then compare them to what he actually did then I guess he gets a higher mark, but that means that you have to grade guys that were brought in to start and did not a LOWER mark. Like DJ’s mark would have to decrease by a huge sum just because he didn’t start and we thought he would.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 21, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
evaluating transactions
Evaluating a transaction should be different than just evaluating a guy’s play.
If not, then trading 3 starters and three first rounders for one season of a halfway decent 38-year-old player would be graded a B. In that method of analysis, the guy you acquired played pretty good, so the transaction gets a B instead of an F. Good trade!
That seems to be a really pointless and misleading way of analyzing a transaction.
by Offense of the 70s on Jan 21, 2010 11:16 AM CST reply actions
Gretz analysis is terribly flawed
You have to put each guy in context. Some guys weren’t even expected to make the 53-man roster, so how can you give an F for them doing exactly that? Fact is we had more guys that we got more than expected out of (Copper, Mays, Chambers, O’Callaghan, Wade, Belcher, etc) than guys that disappointed (Engram, Thomas,Goff). So that gets a passing grade in my book.
Now, if you want to claim the Chiefs didn’t do a good job of getting high-class FAs to come here, then that’s a completely different story and argument. Just don’t claim training camp fodder were failed signings! What a load of crap. It’s becoming more and more clear that Bob has a bone to pick with the new administration.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 21, 2010 11:46 AM CST reply actions
Geez...
Why is that every time somebody disagrees with the analysis of some media type, then the assumption has to be made that the reporter “has a bone to pick with the new regime”? Come on. You disagree with his analysis? Fine. But that doesn’t prove that he’s biased one way or another.
Context? OK… we all understand that when there are 80 guys in training camp, 27 aren’t going to be in the final roster. But I disagree that guys are brought in with no expectation that they’ll make the final cut – especially if the team in question went 2-14 in the previous season.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
"bone to pick" based on many articles
not just this one. With the regime change, Bob also changed from overly positive to overly negative. Maybe it’s a coincidence in timing and has more to do with the prolonged sucking. But if you have read bob regularly over the years, i think it’s clear some sort of change in his tone exists.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 21, 2010 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
OK...
Let’s say you’re right – that there has been a “change in tone” from “overly positive” to “overly negative.” Understand… I’m not saying I agree with you about that, because I don’t – and I’ve been reading Gretz for a very long time, too But for the sake of argument, let’s say this is true. Why could that be?
Well… it could, of course, be exactly what you say – that Gretz has a bone to pick. This is, after all, a pretty common belief. I’ve lost track of the number of times in these pages where posters have claimed that reporter X, Y or Z is biased against the Chiefs current regime. Usually this is attributed to the lack of information being given to the press, and is accompanied by a remark suggesting that the reporter is acting like a spoiled child who is throwing a tantrum because they don’t get to see behind the curtain any more.
Well… it is very likely because of the lack of information being given to the media. But the bias being perceived very likely isn’t because the reporters are pissed off because they no longer have access. It’s more likely to be because the reporters simply don’t understand what’s going on.
A good reporter always knows much more than they write about. So when the administration is relatively free and open with the media – as it was during the Peterson regime – reporters understand what the team is trying to do, because coaches and players talk with them off the record about what is taking place.. and more importantly, why things are taking place. This allows the reporters to understand the long term plan, and write their stories with a positive spin.
But when the media is being given the shutout – as has been the case ever since Pioli’s arrival – all they know is what they see. And let’s face it: a lot of what we have seen from this adminisration has seemed a little crazy. But maybe if the administration was a little more forthcoming on what it is they’re doing, it would make a lot more sense to the media, and they’d spin it more in the administration’s favor.
After all… unless you’re a guy like Jason Whitlock – who makes his living throwing stones at people regardless of the circumstances – there’s simply no percentage in showing the administration in a negative light. Your readers are fans who want to see hope. But if you are denied the information you need to understand that hope exists – and you have integrity as a reporter, which Gretz (and most other people covering the Chiefs) certainly have – then you are left with no choice but to portray a 4-12 team in a negative light.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
Hey, I like Bob
He’s been an invaluable resource to Chiefs fans for years. My original post was mostly about the ridiculous nature of his grades (e.g. he equates expectations of Tony Curtis to those of Matt Cassel). I don’t want to spend too much time arguing about my last sentence. IMO, Bob’s tone and attitude towards the administration has significantly changed. I admit I don’t know why or if it’s a coincidence.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 21, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
If you don't know why
then why did you say that it’s “becoming more and more clear that that has a bone to pick with the new administration”?
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
Bad choice of words for a stong correlation
How about, “It is becoming more and more apparent that there is a strong correlation between Bob’s change of attitude and the change of administration.”
by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 21, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough
I still don’t agree with you that there has been a significant change in tone, but I’ll give you props for recognizing that if it does exist, the reason for it is unknown.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
yep, maybe i'm imagining things
But to me, Bob’s most negative articles these days seem to always spin negative things towards the administration, where in the past, he used to do the opposite, e.g. spending lots of webspace defending what he saw as unfounded criticisms of Herm and Carl.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 21, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
I'd Tend To Agree About Gretz' Attitude Towards Administration
The thing I disliked most about him before this season was that he was pretty much a sycophant for Peterson. He’s a smart guy on football knowledge, but go into a “who’s responsible for the state of the Chiefs” line and he’d bend over backwards trying to externalize blame away from Peterson.
As for his attitude towards the current regime, I’m not sure if he’s so much negative as he is not unconditionally supportive. I got so used to seeing him defend the Chiefs’ previous regime in knee-jerk fashion that when he doesn’t do it with Pioli and Haley it might seem as if he’s being negative when he is actually only being objective. It’s tough to tell, though…I imagine he’ll make his feelings known about the Chiefs eventually if he plans to do so.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
But that's exactly my point, UCrawford
It might have been that Gretz understood what the goals were when people were willing to tell him. Nowadays, reporters only know what they observe on the field, and what the administration spoon-feeds them in press appearances; you can know pretty much everything reporters know just by watching videos of the press conferences. It hasn’t always been that way – and the change occurred at the moment Pioli stepped into the building.
Yes… it could be that Gretz (and others, for that matter) totally bought in to Peterson’s ideas, and don’t buy into Pioli’s ideas to the same extent. Question is… is it because he (or they) agreed with Peterson, or because he (or they) understood him?
For example… I’ve seen a lot of suggestions that the news media loved Herm Edwards, and would excuse just about anything he did – and a lot of suggestions that the media has been out to sabotage Todd Haley right from the start. Perhaps both are true. But it could also be that the people in the media understood building with youth, and recognized that it was going to take time. On the other hand, some actions taken by Haley during his first season made no sense – unless you were privy to exactly how he intened to do things. He wasn’t saying then, and he isn’t saying now.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
what things "made no sense"?
You’ve made that comment about both Haley and Pioli now. I’m interested to hear what things you’re referring to. And by that i mean true interest, not to imply that I don’t believe you.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 21, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
OK...
Firing Gailey two weeks before the opener. Jettisoning players acquired with high draft picks. Keeping Derrick Johnson off the field, and leaving Larry Johnson on the field. Bringing in players like Toomer and Lelie, and throwing them out in favor of practice squad types after the start of the season.
Now… understand that I’m not trying to say that any of those moves were wrong. I am aware of all the arguments in favor of making them. But all of them were moves that left some people scratching their heads. The administration has done nothing to explain why they have made those moves – either in public or off the record – which could have gone a long way towards bringing the media out in their favor.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
I see
I agree that on the surface that many of those are initial head scratchers, but I think Haley has addressed all of those and seem to have valid logic behind them.
1) Gailey – Philosophical difference. Better to install the offense of the future now than later. I felt Haley described that sufficiently, which was corroborated by Gailey recently.
2) Jettisoning of high draft picks – I’m all for keeping the best 53, regardless of draft position. Turk didn’t fit and underproduced. Pollard is also a bad fit b/c he’s horrible in coverage, and a bad fundamental tackler.
3) DJ – Big play maker… UNFORTUNATELY BOTH WAYS, e.g. good and bad plays. After going back and re-watching some games recently, his “yo-yo” performance is very evident. For example, the Pittsburgh game.
4) LJ – Haley said Charles wasn’t gettting more time because he was still learning the system. He explained giving him more after “he got it”
5) Toomer & Lelie and the like – I agree with Haley 100% on always having competition and a veteran presence.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 21, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
It’s abundantly clear Bob’s tone has changed from Carl/DV/Herm apologist and defender against any perceived or real media slight against them, to Pioli/Haley doubter. And the reason is abundantly clear. Gretz was fired by the current administration from his website job with kcchiefs.com. I don’t blame him for being upset with Pioli for that, but to deny it isn’t being realistic.
Maybe...
but I doubt Gretz was making much coin from that website gig. The real blow came when he was fired from the radio network – which happened under Peterson’s watch. That is not to say that Peterson was responsible for it – he wasn’t – but the real pain Gretz endured was not at the hands of Pioli.
John
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"
I've Had My Gripes With Gretz
But I’ve got to say that I thought his assessment was spot on for most of his player reviews. I probably would have rated Goff a little higher simply because he started eight games (even if he was horrible) but overall it was a really ugly season from most of Pioli’s free agent acquisitions.
Doesn’t matter who Pioli brings in to run the offense or defense…if he doesn’t start getting better players who can do a better job at what they’re signed to do, this team’s going nowhere. He’s whiffed on player evaluations often enough in his first season that it should raise a lot of red flags.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
It's all about context
Sure, his individual analysis in words are accurate, but the grades he gives are ridiculous because they’re not put in context. Some of those guys represented the 80th player on the roster and he gives an F because he suddenly didn’t become a top 53 player against all expectations? Ridiculous. His overall tone is damning, but overall, I find that compared to most years and other teams, we got quite a bit of production out of our free agents. Especially considering how little was spent (a different issue).
People need to remember that there is a limited amount of free agent talent out there. Teams aren’t in the habit of letting good players go. Compare to how well the average team does in free agency, then we’d get a fair analysis.
I think it’s a stretch to say Pioli “whiffed” on his first year of player evaluations. The only potential “whiffs” i see in Free agency and trades are Goff and Engram. They were low-risk high-reward players that he gambled maybe had another good year in them, and at the very least would provide veteran leadership and pass on experience to the youngsters.
by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 21, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Gretz's article gets an F
I didn’t think anyone could make Whitlock’s end of year grades look analytical and reasonable, but Gretz has done it. On the other hand it takes a deft hand to come off as more petulant and arbitrary than Whitlock, so I’ll give him extra credit and raise him to an F+,
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields
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