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Former Chiefs CB Benny Sapp Apparently Not a Big Herm Fan

Former Kansas City Chiefs cornerback Benny Sapp apparently isn't a very big fan of former Chiefs head coach Herm Edwards. While Sapp says Herm is a good guy, he talked to the Pioneer Press about the one time Herm did him wrong.

Following the 2007 season, Sapp was a free agent having played all four of his NFL seasons with the Chiefs. He called up Herm to see about getting a job.

"He just told me I'd never be good enough to play cornerback in the NFL," Sapp said.

Star-divide

It wasn't a 'You're a safety, not a corner' type conversation either. Herm just said flat out he wasn't good enough, according to Sapp.

"No, I just couldn't play," Sapp said. "That was the last conversation I had with him."

Herm didn't return phone calls from the Pioneer Press regarding Sapp's words but the former Chiefs corner is playing for the Minnesota Vikings who, by the way, have a shot at getting into the Super Bowl this weekend.

"I knew I could do it already," Sapp said of Herm's words. "I was like, he's just talking crap."

The Chiefs have been okay without Sapp. The year after his departure, the Chiefs would draft Brandon Flowers in the top of the second round and Brandon Carr in the fifth round. 

Both are now starters.

(H/T NJ Chiefs Fan in Arrowheadlines)

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Would be nice to still have Sapp

Watching him, he seems at least as good as Carr, if not better (at this point). At the very least, he makes a great nickleback.

by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 19, 2010 9:06 AM CST reply actions  

nobody

gave sapp any respect when he was here.and we all know that

by cainsbigonchiefs on Jan 19, 2010 9:14 AM CST reply actions  

Kind of strange

that Sapp would consider Herm a good guy if he told him he wasn’t good enough. I would personally think he’s a terrible person if I was in Sapp’s shoes.

by Yashi on Jan 19, 2010 9:22 AM CST reply actions  

You can be a

good guy and still be full of sh*t. Football is a business. Sapp knows that and he doesn’t think much of Herm’s business acumen. Neither do I.

by G.L. on Jan 19, 2010 9:24 AM CST up reply actions  

anyone got a head count

of how many Chiefs were let go (not traded), and were starters or players on playoff teams this year? I’d say some value escaped.

Needs for 2010:
O-line
D-line
Linebacker
Safety

by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 19, 2010 9:23 AM CST reply actions  

Not a big deal...

Sapp elevated his level of play after he left the Chiefs. Period.

It happens all the time in the NFL.

by Scott B. on Jan 19, 2010 9:31 AM CST reply actions  

Uh, no. He hasn't.

Unless you think ‘elevating’ his level of play is 0 Sacks, 0 INTs and 46 Tackles this year.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

did he start all year?

i thought he was filling in for someone?

Warriors come out and play

by jrcnc on Jan 19, 2010 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

None of those are inextricably linked with how well a guy is playing

Tackles and interceptions by the secondary are as dependent on scheme and front-seven strength as anything else. Minny has an excellent front seven, so relatively few ballcarriers make it to the secondary layer. Furthermore, Sapp plays a lot of man, which hinders both interceptions and tackles on non-receivers. Sacks? Well, he’s a cornerback.

by burntorangehorn on Jan 19, 2010 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

So ...

He elevated his play by not being called upon to do anything? I like that system. Let’s see if I can find some way to do that at my office …

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Obviously I didn't say that

And you darn well know it. You’re being willfully obtuse. Read what I wrote about man coverage again. If you’re at all familiar with the differences between man and zone coverage, you’ll know what I’m saying.

by burntorangehorn on Jan 19, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Ha!
“willfully obtuse”

That was good. I’ll have to remember that one.

by Scott B. on Jan 19, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I wasn't even trying to be snarky or unpleasant

It’s just ridiculous when people willfully ignore the obvious intent of a post, requiring that someone clarify what was already apparent, and causing a net increase of two posts that didn’t need to be there. But yes, it’s a descriptive term, isn’t it? :)

by burntorangehorn on Jan 19, 2010 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Perhaps you would've heard the sarcasm in my initial post ...

… if I’d bothered with the font.

But, its nice to know that you can be snarky and unpleasant without trying.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Let's boil down what you said:

You’d said that he’d elevated his level of play. I disagreed.

Regarding the issues of tackles, you said that it doesn’t matter that he only has 46 this year because most of the tackling is done by Minnesota’s front seven. So he isn’t being asked to do it.

You said that he plays a lot of man coverage, so that explains his complete lack of INTs this year. (It doesn’t, really, as you’d figure that he’d still have at least one when ‘his receiver’ was targetted almost 60 times, but whatever.)

My response was that, basically, you said he elevated his play because, well, he’s not being asked to tackle (because the front seven are doing it for him) and he’s not being asked to get INTs (because, apparently, that’s what the other CBs do instead?) and that I’d like to have the sort of job where I get applauded for everyone else doing the bulk of the work.

That’s not willful obtusity. That’s replying, with sarcasm, to what your argument was.

Now, I’ve backed up my side of the argument statistically, showing that not only is Sapp far below the level of play of both Flowers and Carr (the latter of which people around here aren’t seemingly satisfied with). He’s also the worst, as far as defending passes, of the three Corners on Minnesota’s team.

That being the case, if he has elevated his play (ie: your argument), then his play must have been woefully inadequate before and Herm would’ve been absolutely right in telling him that he had no business playing Corner in the NFL.

And, for what it’s worth, Minnesota’s pass defense is ranked below the Chiefs’ pass defense this year and are near the bottom 25% of the NFL. So, even with Sapp’s supposedly ‘elevated’ level of play, they’re still easily the weakest link in that Defense.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Another stat ...

Benny Sapp has recorded 8 Passes Defensed in Minnesota. 6 of those were this season. That’s in playing 20 games, and starting 11 of them.

Carr, for comparison, has 19 Passes Defensed this year (25 total). Flowers has 23 this year (36 total), not counting his 5 INTs.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 10:00 AM CST up reply actions  

So how many catches has he allowed compared to Carr?

The point is that there’s a lot more to it than you’re putting on.

by burntorangehorn on Jan 19, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions  

If there were a site that had that information, I'd've posted it.

Because I’m sure that Flowers and Carr would’ve eclipsed him.

Sapp isn’t and hasn’t ever been anything particularly special and the only reason we’re even talking about him now is because he’s a former Chief who managed to find himself a back-up role on a team in the play-offs after having been told, and rightfully so, be Herm Edwards that he didn’t have what it took to be a good Corner in the NFL.

He has yet to do anything to prove Herm wrong.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Thanks, Joel.

To answer your question, burntorangehorn:
Sapp was thrown at 57 times, 40 of those were completed for a 70.2% completion percentage against him, making him the worst in that category statistically on his team.

Carr was thrown at 84 times, 47 of those were completed 56.0% completion percentage against him, and Flowers was thrown at 93 times, 50 of which were complete for a 53.8% completion percentage against him.

ProFootballFocus.com provides a cumulative ranking of the CBs, too, and, specifically against the pass, Flowers earns a 9.9 ranking, Carr earns a 7.3 and Sapp earns a -2.1.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Okay

So your point is that Brandon Carr and Brandon Flowers are better than Sapp. We agree on that. But the implications of your rhetoric are that he has not raised his level of play, and that is the part with which I’m taking issue.

by burntorangehorn on Jan 19, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

No.

My point is that, even if he has managed to raise his level of play, he’s still sub-par and two connecting flights from being a mediocre player.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

From Scott B.:

Sapp elevated his level of play after he left the Chiefs. Period.

It happens all the time in the NFL.

From you:

Uh, no. He hasn’t.

Response?

by burntorangehorn on Jan 19, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Ugh...quote fail

The “It happens” goes in the first quote from Scott B.

by burntorangehorn on Jan 19, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Well?

Are you incapable of reading stat lines or are you being “willfully obtuse” … ?

First, there was more to my response than that.

Second, if you do a bit of research yourself, you’ll note that this year (Sapp’s best in Minnesota) is statistically similar to his second year with the Chiefs.

He has 0 INTs, and 46 Tackles this year. In 2005, he had 0 INTs and 47 Tackles with the Chiefs (based on SBNation’s stats; NFL.com lists it as 43 and 41 for those two seasons). He recorded 6 Passes Defensed, which is in line with the 5 he recorded in KC in 2005, and the 4 he recorded here in 2004 and 2007.

The point? Scott B. said he’d elevated his game. He hasn’t (as was my response) in any meaningful or statistically verifiable way.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Jesus!

Did I open up a can of worms, or what? LMAO!

I’ll stick with what I said directly below.

by Scott B. on Jan 19, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

He's done it well enough to make a respectable contribution to a better team than KC was at any point

At any rate, I definitely disagree that he hasn’t raised his game. He hasn’t been a lockdown corner or anything, but he’s holding his own, and Herm Edwards was wrong that he is not an NFL-caliber player.

You’re cherry-picking years, by the way. Why not compare 2007, his final year with KC, with 2008 and 2009?

by burntorangehorn on Jan 19, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Because, from what I can tell ...

… when attempting to determine whether or not someone is playing significantly better (ie: ‘elevating their game’), you generally need to look at their career as a whole rather than ‘cherry-picking’ one year (ie: 2007).

If he’s playing at basically the same level he was in 3 out of 4 years here, he’s not ‘elevating’ anything which, thus, debunks your argument.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

see other post below too

Carr gave up many more yards per catch, and even more per attempt. Carr gave up more YAC, too. Carr gave up many big plays. Sapp had people throw short stuff underneath and made good tackles.

by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 19, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...

He couldn’t make it here in KC. Now, I confess I don’t watch the Vikings play all that much. But, if Sapp is receiving significant playing time on one of the best D’s in the league…then I would say he’s elevated his play from when he was here. He’s apparently doing something right, or he wouldn’t still be there. That’s just how I see it.

by Scott B. on Jan 19, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

And is, as a result ...

The 13th worst CB in the NFL this year when it comes to allowing opposing WRs to complete passes, and the 3rd worst among CBs playing at least 600 snaps.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's the thing ...

When Sapp was here, he wasn’t good enough to be playing corner in the NFL.

In four seasons here, Sapp had 2.5 sacks (that’s still his career total in 6 seasons in the NFL), 2 INTs, and 117 tackles (that’s an average of 29.25 tackles per season).

For comparison, Carr in just two seasons, has more INTs (3) and more tackles (144 total, or 72 per season) than Sapp had his whole time here. Flowers, also in two seasons, has 7 INTs and 148 total tackles (74 per season).

We’re more than alright without Sapp and, compared to these two guys (one of whom was seen as underachieving this year, if I remember correctly, and still managed to eclipse Sapp’s stats), Herm was right.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 9:36 AM CST reply actions  

Oh, and Sapp's stats in those same two years since we brought in Carr and Flowers?

2 INTs and 71 Tackles.

In other words, our guys produce as much per year as he does every two years.

by JacinB on Jan 19, 2010 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Sapp has mostly been a backup/nickelback

So if you’re going to compare stats, compare all stats. To be more complete, Carr gave up many more yards per catch and more YAC. Observationally, Carr gave up a lot of big plays, and had trouble finding the ball.

I’ve watched ~14 Vikings games this year, and as many last year, and i’ve seen every Chiefs game. Sapp is a solid, but unspectacular corner. He’d be valuable to us as a nickelback, for sure. As far as the Carr comparison, lets just say i still have my concerns, and hopes, for him.

by VermeilLikesToCry on Jan 19, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Sapp's problem was his temper

I will never forget being at Arrowhead for the Bengals game during his last season. He went nuts, started swinging at TJ Houshmenzeda, then Donnie Edwards, then Brian Waters. I also feel a hothead is a big liability at his position. I actually agree with Herm, and bet he told him he’d still be a good special teamer.

by Chief-Eli on Jan 19, 2010 9:37 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

thats he way I remeber it too

He was more trouble than production – glad to see he got his head on straighter and has done well.

by tybme on Jan 19, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I know guys who knew Sapp from college at UNI and they’ve all said he’s a dumbass. From seeing his antics on the field as a Chief, I wont argue with them.

by kc_radrh8r on Jan 19, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

And he ended up at UNI

only after getting kicked off the Iowa team for repeated acts of stupidity. He always has had physical ability. Maybe he has finally grown up a bit.

by Black and Gold on Jan 19, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

RE

We’re going to get a lot of “how do you like me nows” for a while.

by tenacious rdc on Jan 19, 2010 9:48 AM CST reply actions  

Anybody remember the game when

Sapp hit that dude in the balls? Those were the days…

Anyways, we are hardly missing much from Sapp. His stats show him to be a marginal player at best. Sounds like Herm was giving him a hard dose of reality.

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by Scaryclouds on Jan 19, 2010 9:53 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Haha

that dude was Brandon Marshall!

by kc_radrh8r on Jan 19, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Sapp

I always took Sapp for kind of a pile jumper and over celebrater. He was a decent special teams player if I remember correctly. I never would have thought he would be a corner on a top tier defense. I guess I was wrong.

by DTforHOF on Jan 19, 2010 9:55 AM CST reply actions  

Sapp benefits from Vikings pass rush

I think carr will be a solid CB once our front 7 get better and we have a better pass rush,
Sapp does look more impressive since he is on a team that has a good front 7.

by rlkc8085 on Jan 19, 2010 10:20 AM CST reply actions  

Pretty much his career in KC

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

by SuperTurtle on Jan 19, 2010 11:45 AM CST reply actions  

Sapp acts like an asshat on the field

Thats where he loses his value for me.

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

by SuperTurtle on Jan 19, 2010 12:40 PM CST reply actions  

Wow.

I can’t believe there was a whole discussion about Benny Sapp.

by Enite on Jan 19, 2010 6:31 PM CST reply actions  

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