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2009 Chiefs 3-4 Front Seven: The Final Grades!

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Many thanks to KaloPhoenix for tracking this all season. Great work!  -Joel

After all the end-of-the-year analysis has semi-wrapped up, and amidst the excitement of our new coordinators, I thought I'd (finally) sit down and finish out my end-of-the-year grades.  I've gone back and watched a good portion of the games a second, and sometimes third, time to give an accurate analysis of what we're doing out there.  For those who may not know, this has been a continually updating analysis, with the last one occurring during our bye week.

I'll go through each player that clocked significant minutes (that is still on the team), how they fulfilled their roles, strengths and weaknesses, and which other player benefited the most from their play.  At the end of this, I'll give them a grade, as well as the previous grades I gave them as the year went along.

 

WARNING:  This will be long, and it may be boring.  I suggest you grab an extra cup of coffee or a Red Bull before you start. =)

Star-divide

As usual, with these rankings, I'm not comparing our guys to the elites of the league.  Tamba's a C- player at best if I compare him to Dumervil or Jared Allen, and most (if not all) of our LB's would have a failing grade by comparing them to the league's best.  These grades are relative to their counterparts and the grades I gave them in my earlier posts.

Nose Tackle:

Ron Edwards: As the (essentially) only Nose Tackle, Ron had quite the billing to live up to.  The NT is the heart of the 3-4 defense, and what literally everyone else keys off of to do their job correctly.  He sends ripples all over the defense, both good and bad, with whatever he does...and unfortunately, most of it was bad.  29 tackles (24 solo) and 3 PBU's.  Sure, no NT's stats are going to be gaudy, but he was how he got shoved around that really hurt our defense.  Here is a guy that weighs 315-320 and all he really needs to do is to take up blockers.  As the 0-tech, depending on the playcall, it's his job to either shoot the strongside or weakside A-gap (between the guard and center).  As I wrote with my very first 3-4 analysis:

His one and only job is to plug the center of the line and make sure nobody can get through.  This is the heart of the defense.  If the NT cannot hold his ground, the offense will run roughshod over the center of a 3-4 defense.

Unfortunately, that circumstance happened.  Ron was routinely shoved out of the middle of the play by ONE player.  As it was his job to take up two of the opposition's offensive linemen, that left a guard with the ability to get to the second level, and then a fullback/blocking back with the ability to stymie the other linebacker.

Strengths:  Ron impacted the game the most when he lined up a little offset from how he should be, as a 1-tech.  With a single gap to man, he would occasionally get a little penetration and could disrupt the play.  He was also pretty good at getting his hands up while a pass was coming out.

Weaknesses:  Getting shoved out of the heart of the defense and not taking up multiple blockers.  As a NT, it's simply unacceptable.  He has to be stronger and more of a rock in the middle if he wants to continue to be a starter under Crennel.

Players who benefited:  Very few.  It would have to be one of our ILB's on those occasions where he did hold his ground.

Final Grade: F.  Simply unacceptable at the crucial part of our defense. (Prior grade: D)

 

Defensive End:

Glenn Dorsey:  Glenn was one of the three players I claimed in the beginning that I thought would struggle the most to succeed in the 3-4.  His forte was more of a penetrating pass rusher in college, so I expected that using him as a blocker-eating widebody would fail miserably.  54 tackles (41 solo), 1 sack, and 2 PBU's later, I'll fully admit I was wrong.  He routinely held up two blockers and caused the LT on several occasions to block down, leaving Tamba with an open path.  He only netted 1 sack, but had countless others slip from his grasp.  Some of my favorite moments from this front 7 were when he's beat his guard with the first step, make the tackle reach for him, letting Tamba go by, and leaving Glenn and Tamba running directly at the QB, essentially untouched.  He really stepped up and showed us his worth in this defense.

Strengths:  Strong at the point of attack.  The Buffalo and Cleveland games in which he wasn't playing really showed how much we miss him.  Does a great job of making the guard respect him and making the center/tackle think twice about moving on with their blocking assignments.  When the NT took up two blockers, he showed the ability to use his penetrating first step, even in a defense that typically doesn't use him like that.  Very good about forcing the RB back inside by creating a seal in the off-tackle spot, making it easier for the ILB to step up and lay the wood.

Weaknesses:  Recognizing the gap responsibilities earlier.  One of the problems with Dorsey is recognizing the blocking scheme as it's developing.  He gets by with his talent more often than not, and can recover to the point of attack, but many times (usually on big runs towards him) he looked lost as the play developed.  The times that he recognizes it early on are the ones that lead to a big stop.  This could be because of the inconsistent play at NT or developing instincts.  Fixing it, though, could make him an elite player at DE.

Players who benefited: Tamba Hali and Belcher/Mays.  He helped make Tamba's switch to OLB incredibly easy, and will continue to help him towards higher sack totals as the years progress.  Made nice, large holes for the ILB's behind him to fill...there was usually little doubt about where they should be.

Final Grade:  B+.  Crucial building block who made the transformation quickly.  Buffalo and Cleveland would agree.  (Prior Grade: B)

Tyson Jackson:  TJ had quite the expectations to live up to this season.  He wasn't the guy most wanted us to pick and has had a spotlight shone on him all season.  Most will look at the numbers and say that he failed.  However, 38 tackles (27 solo) and 2 PBU's isn't half bad for a 3-4 DE, especially considering he had 5 tackles halfway through.  Most importantly, as the year went along, he really started to grasp where he needed to be in the run game.  The passing downs weren't his forte, as he typically had both the guard and tackle to deal with, as Vrabel was dropping into TE/RB coverage.  As the year went along, DeMorrio Williams and DJ seemed to be making more and more stops...in no small part to TJ's ability to tie up blockers.  The naysayers really do have to remember that on most plays, TJ WAS the double teamed member of our front line.  Dorsey was 1-uped more often than TJ, and Edwards was only holding one blocker.  Vrabel was usually on pass coverage duty or was fighting through a blocking TE in the run game.  Due to Edwards' inability to hold another blocker (which is usually the strongside guard), TJ inherited that guard on top of the tackle.  That's an awful big feat for a rookie to handle, but he really showed he could towards the end of the year.

Strengths:  Eating blockers.  By far the best we had at staying put in the last half, holding two guys to himself, and allowing the ILBs and OLBs around him an easier path to the ballcarrier.  He's not going to hang the gaudy stats, but he's not in the position to do so.  He did his job in the last half of the season and made everyone else's easier.

Weaknesses:  Does not move to the outside well.  On those occasions he gets 1-uped against a tackle, he prefers to go inside, relying on Vrabel for the outside contain.  Numerous occasions have seen this backfire.  When he does move outside, he seems to lose some of that strength and ability to hold his own.  On passing downs, we've seen many QB scrambles up the middle because he's working the outside path.

Players who benefited:  Vrabel/Studebaker and Williams/DJ.  You better believe those guys loved not having o-linemen all over them.

Final Grade: B-.  Solid rookie campaign, whether it's recognized or not.  The last half of the year really seemed to click, and with a little more help in the middle, I think we'll really see him shine.  (Prior Grade: C-)

Wallace Gilberry:  Our very definition of a "situational" pass rusher, Wallace compiled 22 tackles (20 solo) and a hefty 4.5 sacks.  A lighter, leaner DE build allowed him to use the quickness of an OLB against a guard that had been tired out by Dorsey.  When he's in the game, we tend to run a LOT of stunts involving him and Tamba.  He'll wait for Tamba to take the inside route, then switch up the LT by going around/behind Tamba, leaving him free.  He's also got a nice repertoire of pass rush moves, and he catches the inside linemen "off-guard" (pun-intended) with them.  Lacks the strength and build to be an every down player, but the Tamba/Gilberry/TJ/MaGee lineup we saw on obvious passing downs gave opposing offenses an extra element to have to consider in gameday planning.

Strengths:  Speed and rush moves.  Sure, a good number of tackles would be able to handle him (and have), but matching him up against a guard gives him an upper hand.

Weaknesses: Run defense.  On the flipside, when the guard's not waiting for Wallace to come to him, it's a disadvantage in our direction.  He's just not quite big enough and tends to get steamrolled in the run game.

Players who benefited:  Tamba Hali.  As teams started to pick up on Wallace's skillset, it allowed Tamba a little more freedom.  I recall a couple of the "stunt" plays where the LT moved towards Gilberry, offering an inside line at the QB for Tamba.

Final Grade:  C+.  Good speed rush backup, but a big liability in the run game.  On obvious passing downs, he's a big asset.  (Prior Grade: B-)

Alex Magee:  Alex was a funny pick at the time, heating up the Dorsey trade talks for some weeks after the draft.  A year in, 8 tackles (6 solo) and 2 sacks later, he's a bit of an enigma.  He's really only been used on passing downs, which raises the question of his strength and ability to be a 3-4 DE.  He seems quicker than TJ and Vrabel, and has a pretty good bullrush, which has led to his two sacks.  While Dorsey was out, he technically got the start, but Dion Gales saw more time there than Alex.  He's really led to more questions than answers this season, and we'll see how he fits in as the years go by.

Strengths:  Bull rush.  He's a good alternative to TJ when the o-linemen are tired of being pushed around laterally.

Weaknesses:  Run game.  We've barely seen him out there in those situations, so I think it's safe to say his ability to do that isn't up to par yet.

Players who benefited:  TJ would be it.  He'd offer a small relief for him.

Final Grade:  INC.  Like I said, he's an enigma.  I really don't know where he fits yet.

 

Outside Linebacker:

Mike Vrabel:  His tutelage alone should garner him a good grade, but his play on the field was at a high level too.  53 tackles (44 solo), 2 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 5 PBU's are good numbers for a mostly coverage linebacker.  Mike did look a bit slow out there on some plays, but he used his intelligence and proper angles to make up for it.  I've seen lots of people saying we need a strong pass rusher in this position, but I think his intelligence is more valuable.  He very often has to make reads on the fly as to whether he can rush the passer, when to pass off to another coverage man, and when to hold the flat down...all while expected to be the outside contain.  He struggled a bit getting around the tackle on plays that he did rush, and didn't seem to have the strength to drive the blocker back, even against some TE's.  His passion for the game is still incredibly high though, and his "Mile-High Salute" was the high point of a low spot in the season.  Any question about his allegience to the team was gone then and there.

Strengths:  Short pass coverage and outside run contain.  He has excelled against the short pass, and teams just don't run RB/WR screens to his side very often because of it.  He, along with TJ, allowed DeMorrio Williams to rack up the tackles due to a free hole.  Also, his ability to teach the other players around him (namely Studebaker) was invaluable.  He's helped make several players much better than they would've been without him.

Weaknesses:  Strength and speed.  There were many times that Mike would be in the right place at the right time, but would fail to finish off the tackle.  He also struggled getting around the bigger linemen on the occasions he got to rush the passer.

Players who benefited:  Andy Studebaker, first and foremost.  I know he's helped others, but watching Studebaker's growth this season under Mike's tutelage was nothing short of amazing.

Final Grade: B+.  For all he's done on the field for us, he has made this transition that much easier on the team through leadership and teaching.  You can knock his ability somewhat, but in my mind, he made up for it in other areas. (Prior Grade: B+)

Tamba Hali:  The star of these front 7.  Tamba was THE guy other teams had to gameplan around, and his 62 tackles (46 solo), 8.5 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 1 safety and 1 PBU show it.  A career high in sacks while switching from crouched to standing is amazing, but the 62 tackles was what caught my eye as I watched games.  Countless times he tracked back into the play to make a tackle from behind.  Countless more he was the second guy on the scene in WR bubble screens.  He got much better at sniffing out RB screens and learned to stay at home better than he has in years past.  Also, one of my concerns, pass coverage, didn't turn out to be quite the liability that I predicted.  Sure, they're not asking him to do it that much, but I can think of several occasions (SD's 2nd TD in the first game where Tamba shut down Gates, not the least) where he's done well enough.  He's still letting quicker RB's get outside of him, and his outside contain would be far worse if it weren't for Dorsey.  Harrison ran all over his side during the Cleveland game, proving that he needs to be stronger against the run when he's not getting Dorsey's help.  His pass rush was solid all year long, and for whatever reason, referees didn't want to call repeated obvious holds against opposing LT's...namely Clady.

Strengths: Pass rush. Like there was a doubt about this one.  Almost had the total number of sacks we had last year by himself, and probably would've without all the blatant holds.  He seems to have Ryan Clady's number and knows how to knock the ball out of Orton's hands...which we should continue to see twice a year for many to come.

Weaknesses:  Outside contain.  While his run defense has beefed up a bit, he still lets change of pace backs get outside of him too often.  Also did not pair well with Dorsey's backups, and didn't collapse to stop the run in the Cleveland games.

Players who benefited:  Glenn Dorsey and Wallace Gilberry.  Both were able to take advantage of other teams keying off of Tamba and make plays happen.

Final Grade: B+.  Tamba showed well this season, and was defintely the biggest consistent playmaker on the field for this front 7.  A little better job at his run defense and we'll have a special player. (Prior Grade: B)

Andy Studebaker:  Is there any doubt who this guy is being groomed to take the place of?  Mike Vrabel's "kid brother" played well enough in his limited appearances this season, mostly on special teams.  His 28 tackles (24 solo), 2 INT's, and 3 PBU's in limited time show that he's similar to Vrabel in a pass coverage OLB role.  He was a solid playmaker in the Pittsburgh game, then turned in a not-so-great performance against SD the next game.  He's not very good at fighting through o-line blocks, but has shown his speed and ability to shed on special teams.  Another intelligent football player who very well may have a long future with this team.

Strengths:  Pass coverage.  For an OLB, he reads the pass routes damn well.  Very good at anticipating the QB's throw and jumped a couple routes against the Steelers.

Weaknesses:  Run defense.  He tends to not fight through blocks as well as some would like and gets a little "lost in the wash" on some plays.  Needs to be more stout at the point of attack.

Players who benefited:  DJ/Williams.  Whomever was playing next to him as a coverage 'backer had their job made easier while he was on the field.

Final Grade:  C+.  A solid backup that has grown by leaps and bounds under Vrabel's tutelage.  Still needs some polishing, but could be a diamond in the rough.

 

Inside Linebackers:

Demorrio Williams:  A slight return to form from Demorrio this year with 117 tackles (95 solo) and 6 PBU's.  He really benefited from the improved play of TJ and Vrabel towards the end of the year and racked up game after game of tackles.  However, a good portion of those tackles are ones that have come TO him, rather than the other way around.  While he patient and waits to watch the play develop rather than hitting the wrong hole, he tends to play back on his heels, and the transition to pursuit is slower than it could be.  He played well in pass coverage, usually drawing the TE or short zone, but sometimes got burned by a crossing route due to a lack of safety help.  The stats are a little inflated due to the nature of the 3-4 defense, but he typically chooses the right spot to be, even if it is a little farther down the field.  Maybe a byproduct of our previous "bend but don't break" defenses?  Still, definitely our most consistent linebacker.

Strengths:  Pass coverage and play reads.  Demorrio tends to make the correct decisions when presented with them, and usually doesn't give up the big play when it's coming at him.

Weaknesses:  Speed reads and arm tackling.  While he makes the right decisions, developing them a bit faster would result in more stops for little to no gain, rather than a 3-4 yard pickup.  He also tries to arm tackle stronger TE's and RB's sometimes and lets them break free of his hold.

Players who benefited:  Corey Mays and Mike Brown.  Our "hitters" didn't need to stay home as much and could gamble, knowing Demorrio would typically read the play as their safety net.

Final Grade: B-.  Smart ILB that knew where to be, but not quite quick enough to the ball.  (Prior Grade: C)

Derrick Johnson:  The roller coaster, "love him, then hate him" guy of this LB squad.  Really showed some moments of brilliance (he faked everyone in the stadium out with that blitz fake for his 2nd pick in the Donks game), but had just as many boneheaded misses.  There's no doubt that when he's on, he's our best linebacker.  He reads the pass well, as evidenced by his stats: 37 tackles (30 solo), 1 (ride 'em, cowboy!) sack, 1 forced fumble, 3 INTs, 2 TDs, 5 PBU's.  However, he's quite the contrary from Demorrio.  He rushes into the hole, letting his athleticism find the back, rather than sitting and waiting.  While this is good in some instances, he does take a lot of wrong angles.  He also struggles with shedding the FB when he hits the hole, one of the problems with him as an ILB.  Also, nimble backs tend to catch him wrong-footed more often than not.  Still, he's a great playmaker...that much can't be denied.  Ed. Note:  Props to Clancy during the Denver game.  I've been calling for DJ and Demorrio to start together for awhile.  It worked.

Strengths:  Gamechanger.  DJ has the ability to absolutely take over a game and shut down the opposing offense.  While Denver was moving the ball all over us through the air in Week 17, DJ stepped up and ended all suspense.  Twice.  You just don't find impact players like that everywhere.

Weaknesses:  Angles and consistency.  DJ doesn't always take the best angle to the ball when in pursuit.  As a matter of fact, several off-tackle runs that have broken into the second level were had due to DJ's poor pursuit.  And yes, he's a "yo-yo" player, which led to him getting less time until the end of the year.

Players who benefited:  Demorrio Williams.  He had DJ breathing down his neck all year, pushing him to be a better player.  Then when they finally shared some field time, it turned out to be a great success.

Final Grade: C+.  When he's on, he's a B+/A- player.  When he's off, he's a D+/C- player.  I averaged them out.  Valuable asset if he sees the field more and plays at a high level. (Prior Grade: C)

Corey Mays: Player of the preseason who ended up being more or less an average player in the regular season.  Corey seems to struggle to find his way to the ball, but when he does, he can really lay the wood.  He had 85 tackles (66 solo) and 2 PBU's.  Not a very electrifying player overall, outside of his goalline stuff in the SD game, he really just quietly did his business.  Very rarely does he hit an opposition's player too low, he does well to put his body on the RB/TE/WR and drive them to the ground.  He was probably the biggest casualty of Ron Edwards' play this season, as he was the run-stuffing ILB...yet he constantly had an opposing guard or blocking back in his face.  He does an okay job of fighting off blockers to get to the ball carrier, though.  A big liability in pass coverage, he just looked lost at times, allowing teams to go over the middle at will.

Strengths: Strong, solid tackler.  Corey doesn't miss a whole lot of tackles, and if he gets someone lined up, he can deliver quite the hit.  Showed his athleticism on several plays to make some big stops.

Weaknesses:  Angles and Pass Coverage.  Corey hit the wrong hole a lot more than he should've this year, especially for our "enforcer" ILB.  He also was routinely substituted in pass coverage because he struggled with it.

Players who benefited:  Demorrio Williams and Mike Brown.  By being the first one in, it allowed these two to get to the ballcarrier a bit more freely and make the tackle without a big guy steamrolling them.

Final Grade: C+.  He did what he needed to do, and as I said, was the unfortunate victim of repeatedly free offensive linemen storming towards him.  Paved the way for other players, but didn't consistently close the hole like he should've.  Most interested to see how he would evolve with an NT upgrade. (Prior Grade: C)

Jovan Belcher: The UDFA who seemed like he was going to play a bigger role at the half way point, he ended up not getting the reps.  Still, the rookie showed a good head on his shoulders and was a solid special teams player all year.  47 tackles (45 solo) and 1 PBU aren't great numbers, but he was more of a 3rd down pass coverage ILB.  Unfortunately, he got burned several times across the middle by TE's for big yardage and touchdowns.  He tries too hard to jump the routes sometimes, and really struggled with the ILB/Safety coverage switches in the middle of the year.  Still, he did show some promise, especially for an undrafted rookie.  The coaches obviously have faith in him as well, letting him wear the dot on the field.

Strengths:  QB reads.  Jovan tries to jump a lot of routes, but it's because he's pretty good as seeing where the QB is going to go with the ball.  With a little more quickness and awareness of his receiver (and the coverage behind him), he could make for a really good coverage 'backer.

Weaknesses:  Gambles.  He's young, and it shows when he goes for the big play.  Several times he's tried too hard to make something happen, and instead of making the stop, he'd miss the big play and allow for the opposition to get one of their own.

Players who benefited:  Derrick Johnson.  Primarily because Jovan ran the defense while the two of them were on the field, but also because DJ could usually count on him for adequate coverage.

Final Grade: C-.  Too many gambles and too many big plays given up.  Rookie mistakes that can be fixed, surely.  What's funny is that if he would've picked off a couple of those gambles, we'd be talking about him completely differently. =)  (Prior Grade: C)

**********

I finished up my last post with this quote:

I hope when I revisit this at the end of the year that Jackson's become more consistent, DJ gets some more opportunities, Tamba's got a bunch more sacks, Dorsey's getting through on a regular basis, and Edwards holds his own better.

Well, TJ has become more consistent, DJ's gotten more opportunities, and Tamba stuck on 5.5 more sacks.  Dorsey did get through a little better, but I wouldn't call it a "regular" occurance.  And, well...Ron didn't really hold his own better.  It's an interesting group we've got here, and an upgrade at the heart of it could change the entire dynamic of this front 7.

It's been fun putting these together for you guys, and I hope you all enjoyed 'em!  Thanks!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 87 comments  |  47 recs  | 

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Rec'd BUT

Feel you should go ahead and compare them to the rest of the league as that is our comp and who we must be better than.
  In other word Hali and DJ earned a right to start next year Vrabel deserves to come back and compete with whoever we bring in and we need someone to play beside DJ in the middle. right on thats how I see it.

by kcchiefstd on Jan 14, 2010 5:20 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

great analysis, Kalo

and rec’d. The ILBs surely would have performed much better with a stouter presence @ NT. THis must be addressed this offseason, or the results won’t be much different from this past season..

by reedeasy on Jan 14, 2010 4:30 PM CST reply actions  

Nice work, Kalo!

I too would love to see a rock at NT. rec.

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain

by Chiefho on Jan 14, 2010 4:47 PM CST reply actions  

Great read...

but I feel a little confused with all the B and C grades for one of the worst defenses in the league. And as a Chiefs fan I know it is hard to grade our players objectively. I whole heartedly agree with NT getting an F. It’s nothin gpersonal (or is it?) but Edwards is not the guy. he’d be a good backup though. It will be interesting to see a better Nose Tackle come in and see what happens to our LB’s .

Mr J
KC Chiefs Fan

by Mr J on Jan 14, 2010 4:53 PM CST reply actions  

He did say that compared to the leagues best

that most of the linebacking corp would get an F.

by breeder on Jan 14, 2010 5:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Also

Great analysis Kalo and rec’d.

by breeder on Jan 14, 2010 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Except

that wasn’t the purpose of this excercise. At least read the whole post before commenting.

The Kansas City Chief's 2009 record will be 5-11.

Close, but no cigar. I can live with that.

by Druful on Jan 14, 2010 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Seriously?

do people read half of the article and then post? “This exercise”? What is that?

Mr J
KC Chiefs Fan

by Mr J on Jan 15, 2010 5:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Very good work!

I don’t agree with all of the grading, but I appreciate the in-depth analysis

I would change the following:

Tyson Jackson – D
     I’m sorry but you can’t get pushed around all season, get practically no stats and get a good grade. I’m hoping for much improvement next year.

Studebaker – B
     Stude is a playmaker, plain and simple, I give bonus points for the INT run back against Pittsburgh. That was fun to watch.

DeMorrio Williams – C
    Leading tackler, yet I don’t remember any spectacular plays, that’s called average. Average = C. (Bonus points for fighting with LJ included in grade)

Derrick Johnson – B
     Again bonus points for big plays. The Denver finale will give us fans something to hang our hats on going into next year!

Other than that, I think you nailed it. Good job!

"The way this works is you string together some good games, some good practices and you get momentum and you gain confidence," linebacker Mike Vrabel said. "It can be a real positive for your team. It builds on itself."

by cpa913 on Jan 14, 2010 4:55 PM CST reply actions  

TJack

I too, though he was getting pushed around, but watching the games again, he did an excellent job holding his own in the second half of the year. Greatly improved after the second watch.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 5:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

2 and sometimes 3 blockers seemed to go after him on every play.

On a better team his drowning in a sea of blockers would mean somebody else made a big play. He seemed plenty strong enough and quick enough to do his job, and the main strike against him was occasionally running himself out of the play with a poor decision, but again, a tangle of 3 blockers, with Tyson struggling gamely in their midst should mean that NT/LB is having no problem filling where he isn’t, if the NT can hold point against 2 and get positive push against 1. That didn’t happen this season, very consistently.

Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.

by hmills110 on Jan 16, 2010 3:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Re: DJ

I’m gonna have to disagree with you here between DJ and DeMorrio. I think DJ deserves a significantly lower grade because he has the talent and does nothing with it. He’s flashed here and there, and had a few games, but he gives up way too many plays and misses way too many tackles that lead to big plays.

If we get the D-line shored up, the ILB’s job gets significantly easier. When that happens, I want a guy who is consistently in the right spot and consistently takes good angles to make the tackle. I don’t want a guy who is 50/50 on doing the fundamentals.

Then again, I’m a firm believer that especially in a 3-4, if your front 3 do their jobs, the ILB position isn’t a position where you need some kind of a stud. I would rather a smart technician at the position than an inconsistent freelancer.

DeMorrio will get significantly better with help up front. DJ is still going to make boneheaded mistakes and give up big plays (I say that with confidence only because he’s been doing it his whole career).

by Jon Yoon on Jan 15, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions  

question still reading :)

Tamba/Gilberry/TJ/MaGee lineup

was this the TJ at Nose lineup?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 4:58 PM CST reply actions  

Kinda, yeah.

More along the lines of a 1 or 2 tech, though.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 5:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

You did say that Edwards was playing a 1-tech at times also.

If I read correctly Edwards was adequate as a 4-3 DT, But the NT position was not his forte.
I imagine that a lot of possible “big” 4-3 DT’s will be assumed to fit the NT spot. Do you see anyone in this draft that we could put in over Edwards and feel confident he would out-perform Edwards job in 2009?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

No.

If only because there are no guarantees in the transition between college and pros. Not saying they can’t, but there are no guarantees in the NFL.

I can honestly say that I haven’t put much thought into the draft, as it’s too far away.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 5:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I know it is far away yet even if we get a FA NT

we will be looking for the eventual player to fill that spot.
IMO very few are even possibilities this year

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

There are some definite fatties with upside, like that Powe kid you turned me on to awhile back.

I can easily see a NT FA plus a Powe kind of kid in the 3rd or 4th round, sort of mirroring the Jackson-Magee pairing. And as little as Magee has seemed to show us, I suspect his numbers would be very similar to Jackson’s if he’d been thrown in the fire more often. With Magee it was hard to pick up on, sometimes, but I grade him higher, overall, considering the position and dollar-for-dollar, he’s probably as good a value as Jackson. He’s still a project, and so is Jackson, but all things considered, I think Dorsey’s absence maybe told us less about how well Magee was as a backup than it told us that there are centers in this league who absolutely OWN Ron Edwards.

Ironically, I think Edwards held his own better against Wiegman than many other Cs KC faced. While all the press has been positive, I’m not so sure Wiegman’s been living up to his press clippings.

Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.

by hmills110 on Jan 16, 2010 3:43 AM CST up reply actions  

I think Dorsey’s absence maybe told us less about how well Magee was as a backup than it told us that there are centers in this league who absolutely OWN Ron Edwards.

And I believe that Center for Cleveland was rookie Alex Mack…a center taken 21st overall in the draft is a serious stud.

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 22, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Good read!

Not long or boring at all. Informative and to the point.

by worc on Jan 14, 2010 5:04 PM CST reply actions  

conundrum for me // question for Kalo/others

I read about our defense and I want to draft a NT or ILB with our first round pick. I read about our offense and I want to draft a dominant offensive lineman. What do you think? It seems like from this analysis that if we go defense you think we should lean towards NT… Correct?

Of course, this all assumes no major free agent acquisitions…

by timmer on Jan 14, 2010 5:10 PM CST reply actions  

Nice write up

Some personal opinions:

Agree with you on Dorsey and Edwards.

I think TJ should get a C. He improved from the beginning of the season, but if you judge him on his performance this year and not what we HOPE he will become, he had definate growing pains. I hope to see great improvments on him next year.

Giving Gilberry a C+? Come on man. He was a big surprise this year. You can’t judge him as you would a starting DE, because he’s never going to be that. But for what they are asking him to do, be a situational pass rusher, I think he deserves a B+. Maybe even an A- for exceeding expectations.

I think if they moved Tamba over to the left side, he would get an A. He’s just not that super pass rusher you would like to have on the right side. He’s a hard working player and he gets some pressure, but he’s usually a step too slow on the right side.

Mostly agree with your other linebacker grades. I would probalby give Corey Mayes a D. He was part of that middle of the defense that gave up so much rushing yardage and he was horrendous in pass coverage.

by ChiefDJ on Jan 14, 2010 5:12 PM CST reply actions  

Point taken on TJ

Gilberry was good on pass rush, but the serious lack of run support makes me unable to grade him higher or equivalent or Dorsey.

Starters who are better all around grade higher in my book, basically.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 5:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I think Gilberry'd be pretty solid in 4-2-5's featuring Tamba Hali as Derrick Thomas.

Especially if KC landed one more top-tier DB.

Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.

by hmills110 on Jan 16, 2010 3:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Still Reading

question Gilberry backed up Tamba? or we have no Hali backup?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 5:13 PM CST reply actions  

to follow if Gilberry is Hali's backup we have a problem

if I read DJ and your conversation correctly.
Rec Kalo excellent stuff.
Question? The Will-backer is usually playing on the right side of the D.
Mike on the weak side Dorsey/Edwards gap?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Pierre Walters is Tamba's backup.

We just never see him on the field.

Weakside (Dorsey) is the WILB. Strongside (TJ) is SILB. No “Mike” backer in a 3-4 as there’s no middle linebacker.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 5:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Your post suggest that Williams and DJ played on the strong side

Mays would have played on the weakside then.

Mays called the DC’s plays (on the field) and was the “QB” of the D, is this correct?

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 6:09 PM CST up reply actions  

As a follow on did Mays Position players that were lined up wrong

adjust coverages for the secondary

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Not necessarily.

Williams and DJ played the strong side because that’s where the TE was, and that made it easier to man up against him. Mays was our hitstick, and while I’m not saying he never played the SILB, more often than not, it was Williams in case a play action pass occurred.

Those ILB’s typically switch towards a pass coverage situation…so while they have DJ/Williams starting SILB, it doesn’t mean they always played there.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 9:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I am confused

Sam is Mike?
Will is Will
Vrabel was Sam I thought
Hali was Jack

Do you have different defs on naming conventions for the 3-4 backers?

sorry do you like Sax playing? Springsteen

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh, nice Springsteen reference.

Some call Tamba the Jackbacker as the pass rushing OLB. There isn’t really a “Mike” backer, as that refers to the Middle linebacker. In the 3-4, there isn’t really a Middle linebacker, so the Will ILB and the Sam ILB are what they typically use for the terms.

What you’re thinking of is more of a 4-3 LB corps, where you have 3 LB’s and a WILL, MIKE, and SAM LB.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Corey was calling the D if I remember right

Listening to Meatloaf and now over to Springsteen. Old School :)

Could we upgrade the QB? Mays would learn a lot about preparation.

Stolen Car

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 9:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, Corey called the D for a good portion of the games.

However, DJ, Williams, and Belcher all had the dot at some point this year. Hard to really pin any calls on him due to the rotating “general” out there.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

What do you think Romeo/Gibbs want to do in the lb spot

if Vrabel stays put.
I was looking for some past Romeo trends.
2001 NE England brought in Bryan Cox, seems like a failed experiment. Bruschi,Izzo, and Johnson.
2002 brought in Vrabel and the LB core seemed very fluid, maybe Crennel doesn’t really care about ILB and OLB designations

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure.

We’ll see when Training Camp rolls around. It’s hard to see where fits where when we don’t know what we have. I’d like to think that Crennel and Gibbs can really milk the best out of the guys that we have, but it’s difficult to see until we’ve got the guys in house for our coaching staff to work with.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 11:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually, I don't think Clancy was stuck on keeping Mays or Belcher on the strong side.

And I’m not certain, but I think during 2 of NE’s 3 championship seasons, Vrabel was ILB. Had a few big-sack total seasons, playing next to Seymour – who wouldn’t? – but I think he was part of the glue that held the team together at ILB, where he didn’t get gaudy numbers, but somehow, offenses were frustrated.

Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.

by hmills110 on Jan 16, 2010 3:58 AM CST up reply actions  

vrabel played opp seymour

Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!

I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life

by NinjaZX6R on Jan 21, 2010 2:54 AM CST up reply actions  

As usual Kalo, very well done. Rec'd

Feeling "The Love" and "Drinking the Kool AId"

by KCporkchop on Jan 14, 2010 5:16 PM CST reply actions  

I agree with this almost entirely except...

Corey Mays. And not by a lot, but he was such a liability in pass coverage, his complete inability to cover TE’s along with his above average to good run stuffing would point to maybe a C-

But hey Im just nitpicking a little.

Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.

by averagegatsby on Jan 14, 2010 5:21 PM CST reply actions  

Football focus has rated Mays as the worst ILB in the league

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=ILB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Im not sure how much I would put into this, I have emailed the guys over their a couple times about some overall complaints I have, but for the most part they seem to be pretty fair and non-biased.

Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.

by averagegatsby on Jan 14, 2010 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I hate that site! lol

They arent very accurate Ive found lots of stats they have gotten wrong.

by tomahawk44 on Jan 14, 2010 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Stats?

They just rank players.

Pitchers and Catchers report February 17th... And so begins my masochistic addiction.

by averagegatsby on Jan 14, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Cannot refute this.

Although he stands to benefit the most from an effective NT. I can’t imagine how many bumps and bruises he has after those guards run him over play after play.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 15, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure how Gilberry is a C+

He’s there to be a depth guy and a passrusher on passing downs. You’d have a hard time arguing he didn’t go his job and exceed any expectations people wouldve had of him before the season started.

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Jan 14, 2010 5:34 PM CST reply actions  

Very good

Everyone would benefit from an upgrade NT, especially the MLB’s

gordymule

by gordymule on Jan 14, 2010 5:51 PM CST reply actions  

Well not everyone would benefit

I bet Ron Edwards thinks the current NT is adequate.

Celebrating 2 years of Arrowhead Priding Jan 7, 2010

by craig in calgary on Jan 14, 2010 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I bet that Ron would like to play a 4-3 DT again :)

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Outstanding job, Kalo

This may be the best analysis post I’ve read, and that’s saying something because we’ve got people doing some really good ones on this site.

I felt like we’ve been soft up the middle on this D all year. Tough to scheme around that. I didn’t feel like our ILBs did a good job of pursuing outside, either. So before reading this I felt like we needed a new NT, ILB (1 or 2), and SS. I was OK with Edwards as a backup. But now I feel more like we need 2 NTs and a developmental guy as well. Still probably need a new SS, but I’m less convinced about ILB.

While I’m sure that Vrabel helped with the transition, I think Gibbs deserves a lot of credit for his work this year – helping Hali move so well to an OLB, getting WIlliams to perform, and helping bring guys like Mays, Studebaker and Belcher along to be able to contribute to this defense. It was also why I’ve been more down on DJ. While other guys have come a long way this year, I don’t see where he’s made any progress. While I would still like to see a new ILB added to the mix, it would be interesting to see what our current guys could do with new NTs and an offseason to prepare.

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields

by Big Chief on Jan 14, 2010 6:50 PM CST reply actions  

That bet on ILB would be a big bet:)

We got an UDFA, a player that was cut, a FA, and a #1 pick that you don’t like his play.

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, but as bad as our NT spot was

I can’t help but wonder if we wouldn’t have a couple of guys looking a lot better. Besides I ALWAYS want a nasty vicious ILB/MLB more than anything, even more than a top level QB. To me football is all about MLBs/ILBs laying the lumber to the opposition ball carriers. But it’s been slim pickings as a KC fan. Since Willie retired the only guy that really springs to mind is Dino Hackett (though Frank Manumaleuna showed promise before he was injured). [Side note – Why the heck do the kids of former KC linebackers ending up playing for our AFC West foes? Thomas Howard has a son with the Raiders, and Frank’s son plays for SD] Our ILBs seem to tend to the Gary Spani / Tracy Simien type. Solid but not exciting.

So while I think it likely we’ll get at least one ILB, I expect an upgrade at NT could make our existing guys look a lot better based on Kalo’s write up.

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damn fool about it." ---W.C. Fields

by Big Chief on Jan 14, 2010 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I am sorry

Moved my comment to the draft thread

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2010 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Jeebus. Kalo, you are a god.

I am only halfway through, but FANTASTIC work.

REC’D.

-Erykah Badu, I have accepted your proposal. So, Mrs. DTR, let's get to consummating...you are on notice.

-"All praise Chiefus."

by DThomasReigns on Jan 14, 2010 7:11 PM CST reply actions  

No, no, not a god.

You want to give me demigod status, I might take it though. =)

Completely kidding for all who don’t get it and take religion as a sensitive subject.

Thanks, DTR.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 9:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Very nice job on the writeup and analysis. I smell some grade inflation at work here. We were the worst D in the whole NFL for yardage given up per rushing attempt and not that much better against the pass. Yet, you only have one starting player graded below a C+?

Merlinnj

by merlinnj on Jan 14, 2010 8:20 PM CST reply actions  

Again, grading based on what I had before, which is within our own team.

You want to base it off of the NFL? Drop most everyone down a couple grades. We’ve got no all-pros in this front 7.

And technically, Ron Edwards was a starter with an F. =)

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 9:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification. Working on the KC curve ;)

Merlinnj

by merlinnj on Jan 15, 2010 12:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Excellent, Kalo.

Thank you… and most definitely Rec’d!

John

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

by RDOGuy on Jan 14, 2010 8:43 PM CST reply actions  

And by the way...

NEVER apologize for doing a thorough, complete job! :-)

John

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

by RDOGuy on Jan 14, 2010 8:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Excellent analysis and very good work

I thought your grading was precise. No inflation or deflation IMO. rec’d

by TXChiefan on Jan 14, 2010 10:08 PM CST reply actions  

Our defense was an F

How do all these guys get Cs and above?

by TonyG88 on Jan 14, 2010 10:45 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Did anyone bother to actually READ the thing before they commented?

How about just reading the rest of the comments before you comment?

FFS Kalo devoted the Entire 3rd paragraph of the post to this very question.

As usual, with these rankings, I’m not comparing our guys to the elites of the league. Tamba’s a C- player at best if I compare him to Dumervil or Jared Allen, and most (if not all) of our LB’s would have a failing grade by comparing them to the league’s best. These grades are relative to their counterparts and the grades I gave them in my earlier posts.

This is the 3rd person out of just 21 original commetns (not replys to someone else’s comment) to ask basically the same question.
Please tell me these numbers are wrong. 3:21 or 1:7 cannot possibly be the ratio of commenters who didn’t actually read the post they are commenting on: the total number of individual commenters. More than 10% of the people that comment don’t actually read the post ehey are commenting on? – That’s just sad.

Great Read Kalo, and Rec’d. BTW – have you had the chance to read the SI.com piece on the importance of the upcomming Anti-trust/monopoly court case? The implications of that case could be far reaching indeed.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 14, 2010 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you, TC.

No, I haven’t read it, but I definitely should. I’m sure that’ll have far-reaching ramifications towards our team in the upcoming years.

I appreciate you actually reading before you post. The 3rd paragraph was specifically meant towards those who would have qualms with my grades…yet it seems to be overlooked. Maybe I should have it bolded and underlined next time. =)

DISCLAIMER: I have no problems with those who disagree with my grades, but the starting point is that of prior posts I’ve made, not of those that would be amongst the league’s best. I’m trying to shine a small bright spot on portions of our defense, not bury it.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 14, 2010 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

below post is supposed to be a reply.

I would be interested to know, I know you put it out there, but where are you finding some of the film at, and did you just rewatch film, or breakdowns of film? Tivo games and just rewatch? Again, solid post.

by The IT Guy on Jan 15, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Tivo games and rewatch, mostly.

When I’m in the stands, I try to take note of everything I can while watching, especially if I can get a better view of exactly what our defense is doing. But yeah, it’s watching recorded games, which can be limiting at times, but gets a good baseline for these, I feel.

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 15, 2010 8:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Awesome

Thanks for the info, I am hoping to go to about 4 games next year, and start watching the DB’s in coverage. Has anyone done a post about this, to your or anyone elses knowledge? I think its an interesting part of the defense and can truly dictate what a team does up front (a la what the Jets do with Revis and how Deion was used in his prime.)

by The IT Guy on Jan 15, 2010 9:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Calling hmills! =)

I’m more of a “trenches” guy. HMills (and some others) do well with the DB analysis. Maybe we can get them in here to discuss?

"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris

by KaloPhoenix on Jan 15, 2010 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Good job Kalo

I would be interested to know, I know you put it out there, but where are you finding some of the film at, and did you just rewatch film, or breakdowns of film? Tivo games and just rewatch? Again, solid post.

by The IT Guy on Jan 15, 2010 8:50 AM CST reply actions  

Beautiful work man!

Hey just a fantastic post (and series). Thanks!

by Matt Conner on Jan 16, 2010 9:38 AM CST reply actions  

Hey Kalo! Nice article.

I wanted to respond last night, while the article and all the comments were fresh in my mind. I’d be pleased if y’all would forgive me any “Gee this guy apparently didn’t read this!” gaffes.

All criticisms (Mays) and compliments (Studebaker) of LBs for coverage are probably overblown. I don’t think the d-line is giving the ILBs what they should be, which mitigates against Mays. And Studebaker’s highlights were, to me, textbook examples of system/zone INTs that were the result of pressure and getting into the proper drops. This is the sort of thing I’m talking about, when I say that’s pretty much what I want from my LBs in a coverage role.

I’m not dissin’ Studebaker for bein’ where he was supposed to be, but as much as I loved the two picks the other day, they basically fell to him, without a whole lot of superhero stuff from him before the pick. And with Mays, until the d-line gets more dependable, he’s likely to be a step slow in his drops, because he has to bite on the play fake and he has to make it look like his intention is to give Edwards some help, or G and T aim to drive Jackson wide, while the C seals Edwards off from the strongside A gap, if Edwards is in 0-tech, for instance.

Also, the “shallows” in the middle should be at least partially defended by d-linemen who are getting at least SOME penetration, have their guys stood up, have their heads up, and can play tall when the QB’s set to release the ball. A more consistent/frequent denial of passing lanes, from relatively close to the QB would go a long way toward helping the LBs in zone. To an extent, they should be able to read what area they should cheat towards based on where the islands of obstruction are being created by the d-linemen. If the front 3 are standing up the 5 O-linemen, the LB can look for passing lanes to defend, the same as the QB is looking for gaps between those islands to pass through. And just by being a red jersey 10 yards down the field in the lane the QB is hoping to use can deny that lane in the QB’s mind, or change the trajectory on any passes in that lane.

Blah blah blah.

Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.

by hmills110 on Jan 16, 2010 1:09 PM CST reply actions  

So we are set at ILB:)

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 16, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not saying that.

But I think we’re OK with Chevrolet LBs if we have Cadillac DLs and DBs.

I’d still add to the LB corps thru FA and draft this year, but more workmanlike.

Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.

by hmills110 on Jan 16, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

My issue I guess is that the

Chiefs need a SS not a FS. The top rated SS in 2010 draft are 2nd round guys. Besides Haden and Robinson all of the CB’s are 2rd on guys. NT is not even worth a sniff @ 5th pick. As I see it there are 6 ILB’s and 4 OLB’s that are even draftable by the Chiefs with our 8-Top 150 picks. If you take Berry and want to go D in 2nd round you have Sean Lee PennSt @ ILB and/or Thompson CB @ Cal. Stuckey is draftable at SS. That’s pretty much it. Berry would push Page and/or Mcgraw. Not exactly a great upgrade:)

"For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius." Scott "Young Frankenstein" Pioli

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 16, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

are you SURE they don't need a FS????

I dont’ want to see McGraw and Leggett out there next year…

Langford may be the SS, or they could draft Rolle late…

I’d want Berry or Nate Allen as a FS

You're either growing or you're dying, there ain't no third direction
-Big Tom Callahan

by stagdsp on Jan 19, 2010 8:08 PM CST up reply actions  

On DBs, Halo, maybe I'll put together a post, but I know I'm not the expert, here.

At least with the D-Line, you can mostly figure out who’s where (with a quick trigger on the remote and lots of rewind-and-replay), what they did, and what the offense threw at them. With DBs, you’re mostly dependent on the network deciding to show you an isolation replay, or watch chalk talk on the various analysis shows. There was a really nice bit on Revis, showing Revis playing “inside leverage” the way I always talk about it.

I’ve seen Flowers do that same powerful re-direct to the edge and run with his man down the sideline. Flowers did exactly that against Massequoi in the Browns game. Quinn couldn’t hit that route, because the WR was pushed a LITTLE too wide, and the timing was disrupted by the redirect. But notice that Massequoi isn’t REALLY a big WR. Revis can succeed with those tactics against bigger WRs than Flowers can, and when he DOES, it allows the rest of the secondary to defend significantly less territory.

I really like the idea of adding Eric Berry to the KC secondary, but a lot of good can be done in the 2nd and/or 3rd round. A key trait in the corners I like best is upper body strength. Revis is TREMENDOUSLY strong for a DB. He gets his hands on you, he OWNS you. IMO, James Hasty had that trait. Flowers also has that trait, but he looks to be at the extreme edge of what his body can withstand – shoulder problems – he might be strong enough to basically tear himself up.

If you want to assign letter grades, I feel like I do enough of that as a teacher, and I AM an expert on the topics I teach, and I’m comfortable with the rubrics I use. But I wouldn’t feel real good about giving grades to football players. I’m more of a “report what your eyes tell you,” and hope that others will throw in THEIR 2 cents on what THEY see. I especially like discussing/debating with people how THEY saw a particular play (or how THEY characterize a body of plays on the whole).

More descriptive than quantitative. Getting quantitative is hard, and I always question the criteria I use in order to try to get an objective measure.

Bottom line on DBs is they still look like a cover-2 group. Flowers and Carr are both at their best when they know they can jam and jump routes with safety help over top. But this defense hasn’t been good enough to keep 2 safeties back all day long and still accomplish what it needed to accomplish up front.

Prediction for '09: Chiefs are looking like a .500 team, especially considering Denver's inattention to D-Line, Chokeland's disarray, and a San Diego team that looks like it's on the decline. With a weak schedule, Chiefs steal a few and win between 7 and 9 games, and if .500 or better, will contend for supremacy in a weak division.

by hmills110 on Jan 16, 2010 3:27 PM CST reply actions  

Or

perhaps without a torn up shoulder, Flowers could show the same upper body strength as someone like Revis…hopefully we’ll find that out this season

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 22, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Bottom line on DBs is they still look like a cover-2 group. Flowers and Carr are both at their best when they know they can jam and jump routes with safety help over top. But this defense hasn’t been good enough to keep 2 safeties back all day long and still accomplish what it needed to accomplish up front.

+1

Bewsaf

by Bewsaf on Jan 17, 2010 5:43 PM CST reply actions  

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