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Double-Vision: When the Men in Charge Don't Agree


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From the FanPosts - Joel

The firing of Chan Gailey happened a little over a week ago and there's been a lot of other things happening around the Kansas City Chiefs. It's my hope that tempers have cooled and frontal lobes have kicked in enought to take an analytical look at what the firing means by looking at the results of the firing that never happened.

Star-divide

 

Herm vs. Gunther

Gunther Cunningham was brought back to Kansas City under Dick Vermeil in 2004 to be the savior. The defense had struggled for years and Gunther was the man that was going to bring Kansas City back to the promised land.

It didn't quite work out that way. Dick Vermeil left town before Gun could acquire the players necessary to fully implement his defense. Vermeil was replaced by Herm Edwards who came with Tampa 2 credentials and a defensive bent. In many cases a new head coach means a new coordinator, but it was decided by Herm and Carl Peterson to retain Gunther Cunningham as the defensive coordinator.

The stage was set for catastrophe.

All of us who are old enough remember the good ole' days where the Cunningham led Chiefs defense needed to wear red to hide the blood of their opponents. Kansas City might lose the game, but the opposing quarterback was just as likely to go home in a body bag.

Cunningham acted like he was Germany and the opposition was Poland. All out blitz became a base defense down at Arrowhead.

Edwards came from a different school. "Bend don't break" is the rule and turnovers are its lifeblood. Both styles of defense can win, but require very different types of personnel and play calling. Cunningham was a horrible fit.

Edwards was convinced that the Cover 2 was going to fix Kansas City. Gunther was quietly just as sure that 'throw a sink at em" was the way to go. Edwards effectively put his success or failure on the defensive side of the ball into the hands of a man who thought he was just plain wrong. Though the Kansas City defense improved statistically, they were horrendous on the field. Overall talent definitely played a role, but the problems ran deeper than talent could account for.

Missed assignments and missed tackles killed the Chiefs week in and week out. Playing the Chiefs became a "Get Right Game" for offenses that were out of sync. The personnel that were assembled never seemed to be good fits for either the Cover 2 or Gunther's pressure defense.

Gunther Cunningham himself summed it up best here.

"I’ve gone through three years of playing zone defense because I was loyal to Herm Edwards. That’s what he wanted. People here in town knew that I was different than that. My idea is to put a lot of pressure on the quarterback — always has been, always will be. "

Why was this allowed to happen? Why did the head coach retain a coordinator that didn't see eye to eye with him on what should be done defensively? Without any proverbial flies on the wall it's impossible to know the full truth.

I personally believe that the history between Carl Peterson and Cunningham was a factor but I would be lying if I said this was anything other than a hunch. Whatever the reason, it can't be denied that the defense suffered for being pulled in two different directions.

When the headsman finally came calling, both men went on the chopping block.

You would think that the Chiefs would have learned their lesson about putting two strong willed men in charge who have different visions about what it takes to when. But, when the opportunity came Kansas City put itself back in the same position on the other side of the ball.

Haley vs. Gailey

Chan Gailey was celebrated last season as the one Kansas City coach who could do more with less. In the second half of the season, the Chiefs offense went from dreadful to entertaining. The Arrowspread didn't win one game, but all those first downs sure felt like victories to me.

When Scott Pioli cleaned house Gailey escaped the axe. There were a lot of questions about what role Gailey would fill in Haley's staff. In February it was announced that Gailey would retain his position as offensive coordinator.

Chiefs fans were happy. What we Chiefs fans failed to recognize was that the marriage of Chan Gailey and Todd Haley was an uneasy one. And though it looked like a new movie, it was nothing more than a canned sequal. Edwards vs Gunther Part 2: Now it's the Offense's Turn.

Arrowspread not withstanding, Chan Gailey has always been a conservative minded coach who likes to grind it out and take the occasional shot down the field. Haley's claim to fame was a high flying offense that threw the ball all over the place on its way to a Super Bowl appearance. Here was the same conflict that the Chiefs had went through with Edwards and Cunningham.

Two men at the top with very different views of how things should be done.

A funny thing happened on the way to the season. After 3 preseason games and no offensive touchdowns, Gailey was relived of his duties. With two weeks left until the season began Haley took control of his offense and named himself the offensive coordinator. The philisophical division at the top of the organization was removed.

The short term results:  3 Field Goals, 0 Touchdowns, 19-7 loss.

We'll have to wait to see the long term results.

If you ask three different Chiefs fans what they think about the Gailey firing you'll get three different defendable, logical answers that can passionatly argue why the move was brillant, stupid or a sign of the apocalypse.

The only aspect of the firing that we all agree on is that the timing was odd to say the least. Teams just don't fire key members of the staff 13 days before the games go live. Well this team did.

I don't know what to think of the move and will reserve judgement for a few years. I do know that whatever happens to these Chiefs it will be laid at the feet of Todd Haley.

NFL history is littered with the names of reviled coaches who led their teams down into a deep dark hole. Who, outside of Kansas City, will remember in five years that Herm Edwards tied himself to a defensive coordinator who philosopically disagreed with his head coach about how a defense should be run?

What will be remembered is that Herm Edwards couldn't get the job done as a head coach and that the team failed on his watch.

Though Todd Haley might ultimately fail to bring the Chiefs back to the upper echelon of the NFL, it won't be because he allowed another person's vision interfere with his own. I can respect that.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Excellent.....

Couldn’t have said it better myself!

by Zimmy on Sep 8, 2009 3:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree 99%

I think it is a fair comparison. If Chan and Haley weren’t on the same page the results on offense would of been far worse then with Haley just doing it himself. My only worry is the D getting neglected. I don’t think that Haley will want to throw the ball all over the field every game. I do think he wants to be fast paced, but remember he comes from the Parcells coaching tree and Parcells liked to pound the football. I think the pass heavy offense in Arizona was driven by what he had to work with. I don’t think its chance that in the playoffs when they went on their run they ran the ball a lot more then they did in the regular season.

The Good: Finally cutting Sackintosh
The Bad: Not cutting Copper
The Ugly: People FREAKING OUT about Pollard

by KCporkchop on Sep 8, 2009 3:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I can see a scenario where they bring in another OC next year

This might just be temporary after all. Haley didn’t leave him a lot of time to find a replacement and may have been forced to take on the job.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm Betting They Won't If Haley Has Anything To Say About It

I don’t think Haley ever wanted an OC…I think he wanted to call plays himself all along. The way he’s so far down in the weeds on that offense (like when that clip showed him doing the WR coach’s job for him) tells me the guy’s all about micromanagement. And micromanagers don’t give up power unless they’re forced to.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Coughlin can change, anyone can change

There is no track record here. When you’re millions of dollars, acclaim and job are on the line men become more willing to make changes.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coughlin Didn't Change Until He Got Fired From One Job

And was on the verge of getting fired from another.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope it doesn't come to that for Haley. Pioli doesn't seem to be the kind of guy to wait for a change in attitude

But personally I don’t care if Papa Smurf is the coach. All I want to do is see the Chiefs win.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh. On the one hand, you don't think much of Haley's staff.

On the other, you diss him for feeling free to step on a position coach’s toes. Maybe he picked the guys he picked at WR, RB positions, because he knew he could do that, and not butt heads. Think of it. Being HC for the first time in your life, after working towards that goal for many a year. If you’re any good, there’d be a million little things about how things are run that you would change if you had the authority, and now he has the authority.

If Haley really is a micromanager, he’s not showing many signs of it to me. A micromanager would be draggin’ ass by now, with the bezillion details involved in an organization the size of the Chiefs. I think he’s prob’ly a pretty good mgr, who’s capable of delegating, and relying on his staff. With things up and running, and the gross changes to roster and staff made, he probably doesn’t have as much to direct, and by micromanaging details early, people are doing it his way, and he probably CAN spare attention for other things.

Haley made a wry comment early on about being tempted to step in as OC. Looking at the likely timeline, I’d bet he was looking into how he might reorganize his responsibilities. Fact is, after OTAs and training camp, he SHOULD have everything pretty much installed the way he wants it installed, and HAS freed up some time.

About the only real innovation I’ve seen in his methods is meeting offense and defensive staff together, rather than in isolation. The defensive staff hear what the offensive staff are hearing (and saying) and vice-versa. I wonder if that’ll be an advantage, or if it was just a practical way to economize on time (even though it sucks up extra time short-term). I know as a teacher of multiple sections of different classes that I always thought it’d be nice to not have to give the same spiel twice, thinking the joke for the morning class would have to be changed for the afternoon class, even though the afternoon class hadn’t heard it yet… Heh.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Sep 8, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

My thoughts exactly.

Once he got the train moving in the direction he wanted, he was free to move around and fix the issues that were glaring.

Most likely he is grooming Carthon for the offensive coordinator position much like Wisenhunt did Haley.

by Bra on Sep 8, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well Read

Carthon is being groomed

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 8, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And That

Will be the sign that the decline of the Haley era is nigh.

Maurice Carthon as offensive coordinator will be a disaster…he was one of the worst OCs in the league when he worked for Cleveland and Detroit (the worst his final half-year in Cleveland…before Crennel fired him mid-season). He’s done nothing since then to show he’s any better at handling the responsibilities of any job he’s held.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know anything about Carthon

But why “groom him”? Why keep Gailey on as OC if he meant to put Carthon there all along? Especially if Carthon has already been an OC before?

Obviously we don’t know so this is just hypothetical, but it seems to me if Haley wanted Carthon there, then he would have put him there in the first place. If he’s as bad as you say, I sincerely hope that Haley sees this too. He doesn’t come off as someone that tolerates a lack of results and if Carthon’s career has been a story about that then hopefully Haley won’t promote him beyond his ability.

TOUCHDOWN! KAN-SAH-CITY!!!

by TheScootness on Sep 8, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree UC

but i still think Bra is right, Carthon is being groomed. :(

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Sep 8, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
micromanager would be draggin’ ass by now, with the bezillion details involved in an organization the size of the Chiefs.

Not necessarily. I had a battalion commander who was an uber-micromanager. I mean, she was up the ass of every single NCO and officer in her unit, constantly demanding they implement the 20 new “great” ideas she came up with every single day. She ran about 16 hours a day for a year and a half getting heavily involved in every single person’s job (despite her complete and unchanging lack of in-depth knowledge of how to do most of them) and she was always energetic. In the end, though, her unit was still just as fucked up as if it was run by a micromanager who was killing themselves.

Some people just have a longer lasting battery.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good comparison

I work at the MO National Guard HQ and my boss is quite a bit like that. He’s a great guy, but gets into the details way too much.

TOUCHDOWN! KAN-SAH-CITY!!!

by TheScootness on Sep 8, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he hired an OC next year

Now I won’t argue that he might still call the plays. He seems like that kind of guy. I wonder if he won’t take a Wisenhunt approach – hire an OC next year that fits perfectly with his offensive views and continue to call plays until he eventually turns it over to the OC when he’s confident that he’s shown him what he wants and that the guy can execute it.

As far as this year goes, I’m glad he made the move before the season started. Doing it now is much less controversial/problematic than mid-season IMO. And who would he hire now anyway? He didn’t even have time to properly choose a DC, which is evident with the early confusion about Pendergast’s role on the staff. Remember, Haley was one of the last coaches to be signed, which left slim pickings for coordinators.

I imagine we’ll definitely see a new OC next year and possibly new DC, unless Pendergast has a stellar season.

TOUCHDOWN! KAN-SAH-CITY!!!

by TheScootness on Sep 8, 2009 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you hit the nail on the head

Bellicheck runs his squad in a similar fashion. After Weis left, the name of McDaniels kept popping up but he had no title. It was thought he was the OC, but not really. It took 2 years before Bill finally relented and gave him the keys to the car.

I think you’ll see a lot more coaches doing this. There aren’t many Marvin Lewis’s out there anymore that can turn one good season into a decade long tenure. They’ve got to win now. That’s a lot of trust to put in someone you’re unsure of.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Haley finds some young upstart that shows flashes and molds him into Haley Jr.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would hope so

although my impression of Haley is such that I don’t think he’d bring someone in from the outside. There may be someone out there who wasn’t available when he took the job. I have to keep reminding myself that he hired on fairly late. He strikes me as the kind of guy who wants it done exactly his way as UC describes, he’s a micro-manager. The more likely scenario is he grooms someone this year. Not that I like the choice, but my money’s on Carthon.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Sep 8, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Difference Being

That Chan Gailey was a good offensive coordinator while working with a terrible coach while Gunther was not a very good defensive coordinator when he worked with anyone other than Marty Schottenheimer.

Gunther’s problems didn’t stem from the Cover-2, they stemmed from him being incompetent. His defenses sucked under Vermeil too. How does that have anything to do with Herm or the Cover-2? Not to mention that his best defensive showing of his last tenure here happened with the Cover-2.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's hard to disagree, but for the sake of argument...

Gunther never did put together a roster that would allow him to attack on every down. DJ was to be his DT and we all saw how that comparison worked. It’s impossible to tell what Gunther could have done with another year under Vermeil. Maybe the Lions will become a powerhouse and we’ll raise our pitchforks and go looking for Herm again….Hey, it could happen.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He Also Requested Players That The Chiefs Got For Him

Only to see them fail under his “leadership”. Kendrell Bell was one of his guys. So was Demorrio Williams (who he buried on the bench last year). And Napoleon Harris (who he ran out of town). And he never turned Derrick Johnson into anything special. And linebackers were supposed to be Gunther’s specialty.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt his second stint with KC was a disaster

But nothing happens in a vacuum. Peterson and Edwards both had veto power over anything Gun wanted to do. And though Gun has talked smack since he left KC, he never said one negative thing during his tenure here. He towed the line regardless of his feelings. So who knows how these personnel decisions were made.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just Goes To Show

That having three layers of incompetents picking the players for your defense goes a long way towards explaining why so many of the Chiefs’ defensive players busted. :)

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As For Gunther's Comments

He’s the same guy who trumpeted the Jared Allen trade after it happened, then whined about it when it blew up in his face. Or more accurately, when it blew up in one of his two faces.

Gunther wasn’t loyal to anyone…he was an incompetent coach who showed under two different head coaches that he was terrible at his job and he threw anyone he could under the bus just so he wouldn’t have to accept any responsibility for his performance. I personally enjoyed his removal more than anyone’s.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except he ran a top 5 defense for years and turned a Tenn LB corp into one of the most feared in the NFL

If we’re going to hold him to the fire for his failures, you also have to grudgingly acknowledge his successes. Marty or no Marty, Gunther had his hands all over that D.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His Best Defenses Came With Schottenheimer...And Were Never Repeated Without Schottenheimer

And Tennessee’s linebacking corps were already good when he got there…and the overall defense was actually better before he arrived than when he was working there.

Ever wonder why, if Gunther was so good, nobody but the Chiefs were interested in him as a defensive coordinator while he was hanging out in Tennessee?

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You right, Gunther is not a football genius.

But he has shown he can excell in the right environment. The whole crux of my article is that when Herm saw he wasn’t excelling he should have cut bait. Failure to do so cost his defense and his job.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Right Environment Being

Him being employed under a coach who can do a lot of his job for him.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on now.

Until you’ve sat in the meetings your just talking out your ass.

By everyone’s accounts, even his detractors, Gunther is one of the hardest working guys in the NFL.

Besides, everything we say is moot. Gunther has his shot for redemption. Let’s let him retire before we declare him anything except the former DC of Kansas City

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Hardworking"

When used as a descriptor in the absence of positive results usually means that the person being described isn’t very good at their job. Personally I wouldn’t care if Gunther put in 20 hours a day or 2 hours a day as long as the Chiefs had a good defense. But they didn’t have a good defense and the only thing I ever heard Gunther talk about at the peak of their suckitude was how hard he was working. Which was really nothing more than an excuse…kind of like how he claimed he couldn’t coach effectively from the booth (only to move down to the field where he coached just as poorly).

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was hoping you'd miss that little hole in the logic :)

You hit the nail on the head. And at the end of the day I agree with you wholeheartedly. Good luck Detroit.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We Had A Discussion About It Last Year

And it was kind of a pet peeve of mine about Gunther. I seemed to recall him using those “hardworking” stories back when he was the HC here…also in lieu of positive results.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Between this and my previous comment,

I’m pretty much in-line with UC, although I usually avoid the finger-pointing.

Gun might be pretty good.

I was moving into a new job when Gunther was in his 1st or 2nd year as HC, and I remember the new school talking about how HARD all their IT people worked, and I was thinking about the parallel between these hardworkin’ dudes and Gunther Cunningham. It seemed to me then and now that a guy oughta work SMART, rather than HARD. And I figured a GOOD IT guy was like a Maytag Repair man, always on coffee break, or sneaking out to run his kid to the doctor’s office, because he was GOOD at his job, which meant things were RUNNING because the IT guys set it up right.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Sep 8, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cunningham also inherited a pretty great D from Dave Adolph.

But his entire tenure was marked by an inability to acquire, develop and retain d-line talent. Dorsey was his first sucess.

I never thought Cunningham was as aggressive as he claimed to be, even before Tampa-2. Never drafted and developed a safety that I much cared for, either (but my KC standards are pretty high). Drafted corners and safeties with the measurables to play bump and run and then never ran bump and run, except with players he inherited, like Dale Carter and James Hasty.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Sep 8, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Best kept secret in the tech world

The best techs are lazy as hell

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely

I hang out with the IT guys at my job when I get a break…they’ve got tons of downtime and all our systems run great. And when they don’t, the problems don’t last too long.

Work smart, not hard.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Video Teleconferencing tech here

The best techs in the world are the guys that NOBODY knows they’re name. If everyone in the office knows what you do as a tech, your a shitbag.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I certainly hope

That your picture is not a portrait of you! :-)

Entry level IT tech here..just started first job two weeks ago after going to school the last two years.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Sep 8, 2009 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never said I was a good tech

But if you need a monkey for the job, I’m your chimp

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bless you and Shush now :)

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 8, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was blogging at AP all night

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 8, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Do Agree That Herm Should Have Cut Bait

My point on that, though, is that it wasn’t really applicable to Gailey. Gailey isn’t an incompetent…he did well with a talentless offense even while working under an incompetent coach. Gailey wasn’t removed because he was not going to do well…he was removed because Haley wanted to do both the HC and OC jobs himself.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I had a maximum of 3 years and my professional reputation on the line I would can anyone I didn't see eye to eye with also

You could be right that Haley just wanted to call plays.

So what?

It’s his ass at the end of the day that has to answer to Pioli and Hunt. He has the keys. He gets to drive however he wants until the car gets repossessed.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just Saying

That the track record of coaches who do both jobs isn’t very impressive. If he doesn’t feel that there’s anyone out there he can trust the offense with other than himself, he’s a micromanager…and it’s going to make for a short stint in the NFL as a head coach.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it will be helpful for Haley that Parcells can reach out and smack him

I have been concerned about the Haley hiring, but me being outraged before what I think is going to happen occurs. Nobody’s calling me…yet. (Watch yo back Scott) It is encouraging that Todd has seemed to rise to the challenge each time it has been put in his way. Most micromanagers fold when it gets ugly. He hasn’t done that yet. So I hold out hope that this will work.

Of course if he was my boss I would be loading a shotgun. I’m just sayin…

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I bet not.

I bet if he were your boss that you would quickly figure out how to go about things the right way, and you’d get after it.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Sep 8, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Head down and get along :)

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 8, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"That the track record of coaches who do both jobs isn’t very impressive."

How is Gailey’s record impressive? You can throw out all the stats you want, but the bottom line is he has spent his entire (long) career bouncing between the NFL and college. There has to be a reason that he keeps losing his NFL jobs. Herm picked him up after his being the head coach at Georgia Tech, and they wanted him gone!

Following the 2006 season, Gailey’s name was mentioned for both the Steelers and Dolphins head coaching jobs, two teams for which he had been offensive coordinator. Gailey got neither job. In January, 2007 he announced he would return to Georgia Tech.

After a 7-5 2007 regular season and losing for the sixth straight year to the Georgia Bulldogs football team, it was announced in November, 2007 that Gailey had been dismissed and his $1 million/year contract bought out.

His stats seem fine, but something is fishy here.

Rectal Froth

by The Donger on Sep 8, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Think He's A So-So Head Coach

He was okay with the Cowboys and okay with Georgia Tech. Not good, just okay. And if this were a discussion about whether Gailey’s record as head coach you’d have a point because he’s mediocre in that role. But he’s had a very good career as an offensive coordinator, and that’s what I’m saying…he’s good at his job and Haley got rid of him so he’s now got two full-time jobs (meaning he likely won’t be as effective at either).

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gailey was OC for both Denver and Pittsburg in Super Bowls

So there is no argument at all that he is incompetent as an OC. I don’t think Haley canned him because of competence, but because of different play calling philosophy. UC, I know you think it was all an ego thing and that he never wanted an OC to begin with but I don’t see that. The timing of the release was because he saw what was happening and didn’t feel it was the right thing for the teams success. And I also think he will end up hiring an OC and training him in kind of the way Whisenhunt did with him….it wasn’t an immediate turnover of the duties. That way Haley can make sure the guy will be calling the shots the way he wants them done.

I think this post is a great write-up. The parallel of how the two things went down is laid out nicely. This is something I’ve thought for a long time, that Herm shot himself in the foot by having Gun as DC. Even though Gailey is far more competent than Gun, I still think Haley has been living with a cloud over his head with the tension of having an OVC that didn’t jive with his philosophy. Now he can move on and do so more relaxed even though he has additional duties.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Sep 8, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

If

he’s had a “very good career as an offensive coordinator”, why did he then spend 2002-07 coaching Georgia Tech?

This is what confuses me. Why couldn’t he remain at an NFL level as OC? And now he has been canned again.

Rectal Froth

by The Donger on Sep 8, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does make one wonder

He has had some success, but it doesn’t seem to be sustained.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Sep 8, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's easy to lose the flavor of the month status in the NFL

There are good coaches sitting on the sideline. Most of them find a minor gig until they get recycled. And it always goes in cycles.

 Right now it’s hot young coaches that have fire and a new way of doing things. Call it the Tomlin effect. Just wait until one of the old salty dogs comes back and gets the job done. Then teams, especially the badly managed ones will scramble to dig up a coach that was successful in 1974.

Any body know where Lombardi is buried? I’ve got to see if he needs an agent.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you mean like Dick LeBeau?

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Sep 8, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How bout Buddy Ryan and Ditka to team up again

They’d win a Super Bowl and have an old man fight. My money’s on Ditka in a fair fight, but the Ryan’s fight dirty.

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

shame though

how he found out he had been fired as HC. I’d hate to go into work at 5-something in the morning and read about it in USA today.

by TDubb on Sep 8, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was he playing a cover 2 with the Chiefs in the 90s?

He had two #1 defenses in four years from 95-98. The others were about average, but that at least shows he’s been a pretty good coordinator at one time (under, I think, a different defense).

by Joel Thorman on Sep 8, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, Building A Top 10 Defense Is A Feat He's Never Replicated Without Schottenheimer

But it’s a feat that pretty much every Schottenheimer team has been able to accomplish without Gunther Cunningham.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wish

The article was still up on the mothership about the guy who was personnel director under Carl and Marty up to ‘95. After he left, they never were able to locate the pieces they needed and bring in good talented guys. If there was anyone through the Peterson era who got it right besides marty, it was that guy…and I can’t even remember his name now. But he died this spring and the article was all about the players that he found and brought in, and how they never did really get a good replacement for him. Seems like he left here and went to the Steelers? Wish I could remember more.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Sep 8, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember Gunther not wanted to trade Allen

I remember a KC Star article before the trade where he came out and said we shouldn’t trade #69.

Then when it happened he got on board. I don’t know if that makes him a 2 face or just a company man.

I still think the trade was frikin crazy.

D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.

by Patrick Allen on Sep 8, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry

not wanting* to trade Allen

D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.

by Patrick Allen on Sep 8, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heads up

Bills release starting LT Langston Walker

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

by SuperTurtle on Sep 8, 2009 3:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

20 mins late for me lawl

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

by SuperTurtle on Sep 8, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, to remember the

good old days of Herm Edward’s R2P2 offense and ole’ (pronounced olay) defense. Run, run, pass, punt. And the ole’ defense twirling like matadors in the sun as the opposing offense ran by on the way to the end zone………………

by G.L. on Sep 8, 2009 3:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Haley never wanted Chan

I think Haley probably wanted to call his own plays fromt he start and Scott convinced him to keep Chan around at least until he got his legs under him. I think Haley probably agreed he needed to see what was what with head coaching and that chan was probably the best OC available.

I remember right after he was hired Haley said he didn’t know if he or Chan would call the plays. After a poor showing in the preseason he couldn’t take it anymore.

I have no idea if calling the plays is going to be too much work for Todd. I have never been a football coach before. But I will tell you this. You have to let a man make his own way and make his own mistakes. He was hired to be the man and for now at least, we need to trust his judgement.

If he fails it is on him. All I know is things weren’t working for Chan in the preseason. Was it his fault? I don’t know. But Haley needs to be able to run the team how he sees fit.

I will reserve judgment until I see the results.

D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.

by Patrick Allen on Sep 8, 2009 3:55 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

And That's Fair Enough

But if the Chiefs offense continues to struggle and Haley’s not getting it done, I’ll definitely be bringing that up again this year.

Predictions for 2009

1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.

by UCrawford on Sep 8, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wouldn't expect anything else :)

Home Depot is also having a sale on pitchforks. Do you prefer a red handle or a blue?

by mushin on Sep 8, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh definitely RED :)

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 8, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll buy that

And while you all head out for pitchforks i’ll get the torches lit.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Sep 8, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

GREAT

Write up. Rec’d. I almost did an article regarding the exact same thing but never got around to it. Couldnt have possibly said anything better..agreed 100% on all fronts.

I wondered what would happen with Gailey/Haley. I knew it wouldnt last more than a season..but I didnt think it’d end before the season even started. overall, I think its a great move.

by Petey14 on Sep 8, 2009 4:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The post

provides a good enough reason to consider it a good move.

Gailey was a conservative coach, like Herm. He liked to run the ball and keep the passing to short yardage as much as possible. If you dont throw the ball downfield, how do you expect to back the safeties up? If youre running and throwing short yardage routes, safeties tend to creep up, which kills the running game. You’ve gotta keep the defense spread out.

Gailey was very good at utilizing the players to their abilities. Switching to the spread showed his ability to identify the strengths in certain players. But he was NOT a good play caller. I thought Herm was the reason behind run run pass punt (which I’m sure he had a strong hand in it too) but Gailey came out in the preseason with the same concept on a few drives in the 1st 3 preseason games.

Haley knows to be a successful offense, youve gotta throw the ball downfield. Even in a west coast offense, they still throw downfield here and there to keep the safeties back.

Against Seattle, we ran 2 runs and got nowhere. Then we ran play action on 3rd and long. What the hell is the logic behind that? I’m no NFL coach, and I know that running on 3rd down can catch a defense off guard, but seriously..they had stuffed 2 runs and we run play action?! We didnt fool anybody..and Cassel got hurt. That kind of play calling happened alot last season and I’m glad its over with.

I like the idea of Haley calling plays even though I am worried about the success of taking on the HC, OC, and QB’s Coach all at the same time. Hopefully Haley finds an OC that he trusts to call the plays either sometime this year or next offseason.

by Petey14 on Sep 8, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe a pseudo OC to run the practices on Haley called plays.

and another in the both to see the big picture for Haley to read. I am a little worried about the D but Haley isn’t a D-guy. IMO that we have a new DC based on this years performance next year and possibly a “Named” OC that might be on this staff already.

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 8, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Booth

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 8, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hats for Haley

I’m actually good with Haley be HC and OC at the same time. The thing that bothers me most is tossing in the position coaching duties for QBs. How can he possibly do that justice? Shouldn’t the QBs on any team have a separate coach when the team breaks into groups? And if Haley is actually with them, how can he float to see what’s going on with other positions, which I believe his head coaching duties require.

So is Chan still working with QBs? That’s not my impression. How about Nick Sirianni? When I was at training camp, Nick Sirianni stayed late to work with Gutierrez for half an hour. He’s listed as quality control and has some history coaching WRs and RBs at lower levels. Maurice Carthon?

On top of all this, we’ve got a first year QB and three others who probably all could USE some coaching. It’s not like Brady or somebody is sitting there with years of experience with the system. Haley will do a good job calling plays, I believe, but who the heck is he leaning on to do these other things?

by sunny D on Sep 8, 2009 4:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

One does wonder about the division of labor details.

Bill Muir has OC experience. Wonder what more he’s taking. Maybe Sirianni is doing more. When they break into groups, probably Haley goes with the QBs, you think?

He’s had months to establish routines and make sure that position meetings run as they should without his interference. That’s part of why I’d expect a good manager to be VERY hands-on, at first, emphasizing training of staff to do things his way, so that he doesn’t have to THINK about a lot of things, or put out a thousand brush-fires every day. The guy that’s truly prepared and organized always has time for brush-fires, because he keeps them from starting in the first place. Spends most of his time on things that are IMPORTANT, rather then on things that are URGENT, because someone missed what was important a month ago.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Sep 8, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haley vs. Gailey...

rhymes.

Thank you.

Rectal Froth

by The Donger on Sep 8, 2009 6:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Am I the only person thinking
the common denominator in these years of problems could be the scouting?

by BCRavenJHawkfan on Sep 9, 2009 8:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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