Haley's play calling
by SillyHatDay on Sep 27, 2009 6:00 PM CDT
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PrintI was excited when we got Todd Haley. I thought he brought something that this team needed: a swift kick in the ass and a frank admission that we needed big time change. When he took over play calling duties I thought we would have an agressive offense that would try to punch the other team in the mouth, even if it missed. So far, however, Haley's play calling has been junk. Today he was callind dinky draw plays on 3rd and 20. Every third and long we had he ran some silly run play that had no hope to get us the yards we needed. The only time he didn't run on 3rd was 3rd and 1, an obvious run down. 3rd and 1 is 90% of the reason you pay LJ, or any NFL RB, a hefty salary. As the game drew on the running game was showing itself to be a failure, yet Haley stubbornly resulted to it all the more. The more it flopped, the more he ran it seemed. The two drives where we showed any willingness to go down field on them, we scored two touchdowns. Haley called and UBER CONSERVATIVE game which gave us no hope to win. Say what you will of the calibur of talent we have but it seemed like we didn't even try. I never felt like Haley was actively trying to beat the Eagles. Maybe the Chiefs were outclassed from jump, and we probably were. It is reasonable for this Chiefs team to fall to that Eagles team. I won't put the loss squarely oh Haley's shoulders, but I do blame his horrific play calling for the blowout.
I know you don't have Warner, Boldin, and Fitz. I also know you can't win without attacking your opponent.
Go big or go home.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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he ran those plays to avoid Cassell getting killed
The oline couldnt stop anything. If Haley let Cassell drop back he would have been put in the hospital. Just wait until the NYG come to town…
Disagree.
If he wanted to keep Cassel clean he would not go 5 wide and leave noone in to try to keep Cassel from getting killed. Splitting Cox out into the slot is just plain stupid. go to the tape he did this multiple times. Cox is not going to beat a S or LB. He might make something on a swing pass if no one blitz but otherwise he should be the QBs personal protector if he is in on a passing down.
Play calling was terrible. Revoke Haley’s mensa card.
by 500miles2Arrowhead on Sep 27, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
When he went 5 wide...
…Sean Ryan came in motion and blocked on one side of the line or the other…most, if not every time.
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Haley did have some bad calls like the third down Cassel run
But you can’t put it all on him. The qb should audible out of plays when there is 8 people on top of ur o-line not in the box but on top of ur o-line.
by Kcchiefsownuson on Sep 27, 2009 6:10 PM CDT reply actions
He seemed to get into the mentality he was in in Baltimore.
When he opened it up we moved the ball at ease so I dont get it. I understand trying to get some running going for PA in the second half but seemed like he was trying not to lose rather then trying to win for most of the game.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
he's calling plays that lack belief, confidence or conviction
He’s calling plays in a manner that demonstrated his acknowledgment of a weak roster. It’s hard to say that I would do any different if in his shoes, but he should be play calling like he’s got the players to get the job done. Maybe… just maybe, they guys would pull it off once in awhile and they could develop a little confidence. But the coach’s effort looks like it’s doing a better job of telling his guys that he thinks they suck. He’s not setting them up to succeed.
I think his play calling is more demoralizing to the team than his tyrannical approach.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I agree with the first part of your post...
He is calling plays that fit with the lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball (mostly that swiss cheese we call an O-line). But they can’t even pull off the simple ones. You think Cassell would’ve been able to throw the ball down field when after he takes two steps back, he has a defender at his feet?
And if you think his “tyrannical” approach is demoralizing them then maybe the coddling that Herm gave them was better, eh? The reality is we played against a ticked off Eagles team that was thrashed at home by the Saints and we were coming off a very demoralizing loss to the Raiders. It is going to take some time for Pioli and Haley to get this thing fixed and a lot of that will come from getting better talent on both sides of the ball.
by WesternChief on Sep 27, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Play calling was atrocious
Ive never seen that many runs on third down in my life. We may not have a good offensive line but for god sakes we could have at least gone down the field some. I saw two pass plays longer than seven yards, one resulting in a touchdown. If our mentality is to get off the field without injuries instead of trying to win we may as well not show up
by DBOWESHOW on Sep 27, 2009 6:14 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
What did Haley tell the Offense in practice when the screen was blown up
Run it again. Well they know the play. Run it again and make it work.
If you are getting blown out why not practice what you can’t do and MAKE IT WORK.
The announcers said that Reid was working on the Wildcat because it was the Chiefs.
THAT PISSED ME OFF. Well Vick had 7 stinken yards. Garcia gave us a TD.
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 27, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
so what your suggesting
is that we should start using regular season games like it was the pre-season? Down by 10, lets run a screen because we dont do it well. Down by 17, its time for screens.
Maybe we should use this time to “practice” throwing down field because god knows we cant do that well
I wish it weren't so but when do you give the backup QB time in a game
Haley like Schottenheimer before says the season is four quarters.
Well it’s 1st quarter and we can block for the pass or the run.
If we can’t learn to do that the rest of the game is moot. cause we ain’t going anywhere anyway.
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 27, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Can't
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 27, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe we should use this time to "practice" throwing down field because god knows we cant do that well
I’m glad god knows, because no one else got a chance to see it – give Cassel a chance! LJ up the middle for 2, LJ up the middle for 0, that’s not giving Cassel a chance!
Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...
Umm, every first down
LJ up the middle, that’s not conservative, that’s just plain predictable. You can not win with that kind of play calling!
Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...
Why weren't we in a hurry up
quick snap, quick passes, from the 3rd Qtr on??
Cassel could have made the come back, but you got to let him.
Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...
No he couldn't have...
Not with the line he had in front of him and the recievers he was throwing to….Haley knew that and called plays accordingly…You saw preseason playbook today after the first half because he knew there was no shot.
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Haley's response to this question in the postgame press conference
Was that the offense is still trying to establish an identity (which it badly needs) and that rather than abandon what they are trying to become, he chose to continue working on it.
Some say that he gave up on trying to win this game, and thats quite possible. But I can’t criticize him for continuing to work on things that could help us in the future rather than abandoning everything in a hopeless game.
by ChiefDJ on Sep 27, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yessir
That helps what I am meaning by preseason playcalling…They were working on their run game against a great defense…Not saying I agree with it or not but…it is what happened…absolutely
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+1
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 27, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Trying to establish an identity by running LJ up the middle for no results?
How about establishing Cassel’s identitiy, putting the ball on his shoulders and giving us a chance to compete to win a game?
Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...
I Hope Not
If this is so were in for a longer season then last year because least last year we moved the ball better then what we did now atleast it seems that way.
by Kcchiefsownuson on Sep 27, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Second fricken game with Cassel in the Haley offense.
Audible to Bowe oh not available, Hot read to Ryan gimme a break.
Just run the play and make it work
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 27, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
cassel still looks a bit lost some times
i mean did you see how he let the play clock run out and looked up at the clock afterward. He had no idea how much time was on the clock which was evident by how slowly he was doing things. Thats on him…he has to be aware of whats going on. I love Cassel but I have a feeling he has not quite grasped Haleys offense and terminology yet.
Well...
He has only been in the new system for 3 weeks….that’s extremely little and all
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Good point.
They threw out the playbook when Chan got the can. It will take awhile for Haley and Cassel to get on the same page.
by Hagbard Celine on Sep 27, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm just pointing his out
because everyone wants to blame haleys playcalling…but you can’t call plays your team is not capable of running…..and we are not capable of it both physically and mentally at this point i think
It is gonna be a long season!!
Here’s what sucks the most. Pioli signed his a Golden Boy to an overpaid contract so Hailey has no choice but to play him. I’m sorry but I have yet to see Cassel actually look like he belongs on the field. I know our line sucks and we didn’t have Bowe but the guy has happy feet more then those penguins. It seems like more times then not he tries to get out of the pocket whether there is pressure or not. I honestly don’t think he has the arm to throw the deep ball so defenders blitz and cover the short routes. Game Over. Now who knows this thing might get turned around, I hope so, but I feel like Pioli jumped the gun on this one.
by Chiefsfan_in_the_MileHigh on Sep 27, 2009 7:10 PM CDT reply actions
We all don't know the answer on that one
Cassel needs to make up his mind to read the progression and Throw the Ball.
Even if it is thrown away that is part of the progression.
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 27, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Haley?
I agree King Cassel is not proven but either is Hailey and he came first.He is a control freak!!Where the hell is Chan Gailey???Last year he “gave us the best chance to win”.Haley is a joke and the team knows it!!Season done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you expect when
Cassel is in 3rd and long all day because LJ ran up the middle for 2 yards on 1st and 2nd down combined?
Cassel is a good QB. He has not gotten a chance to show it yet!
Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...
Haley???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Well i cant believe some of the shit plays and check down throws for no gain in todays game.What has Haley ever done in the NFL.I say ship his ass out of town.Now Matt Cassel needs to throw the ball deep more.If he is gonna runnin for his life all day then throw it up.Why did we trade and sign a franchise qb to do the same shit Croyle could do.TRADE SOME PICKS AND GET SOME LINEMEN TO PROTECT KING CASSEL !!!!!!
DOOOOM! DOOOOM!
we are 3 games into the season and have not won yet. We should be beating teams like Baltimore and Philly after completely gutting our team in the offseason. Lets all blame the coach for not winning now…we are doomed.
Cmon guys get a clue, You blame Herm, then 3 games into the season and your calling for Haley to be fired. Even Bill Cowher could not win with this team as it is. It takes time and patience. We suck right now yeah we all know that. But continually playing the coaching merry-go-round and calling for the coaches head after we do not turn it around in a few games is a bit much.
by KCCheeze on Sep 27, 2009 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
My thoughts on Haley's piss-poor playcalling..
1) Too conservative..
There were way too many runs called. I’ve been arguing with folks on this site that more short passes down the middle and playactions need to be called to beat an aggressive defense. We absolutely can not impose our will on ANY defense, but for some reason Haley has this “So what, make it work!” attitude seeping onto the field.
There is a reason that QBs like Peyton Manning audible so much at the line. You can’t simply just say make it work and everything is ok. You, Haley, have to make adjustments in the ways that Chan Gailey couldn’t last year. You are failing so far, sir.
STOP RUNNING THE BALL WHEN THEY H AVE 8 MEN QUITE LITERALLY ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. Un-F’ing-believable! You HAVE to keep them honest!
2) I see absolutely no checks to the RBs or the WRs to point out ANY sort of blitz or get on the same page on a hot route. Speaking of which, where are the hotroutes and why isn’t Cassel. Oh, no checks.
3) Obviously Haley feels like these plays are successful in practice, which lets me know a few things as well.
a) These plays have been successful in practice against our porous defensive line.
b) The offense has absolutely NO idea how to prepare for the speed of a defense like the Eagles, or ANY good defense for that matter, because ours is not up to NFL standards. Our D doesn’t make our O any better in practice.
I’ve got more gripes. I’m not a negative nancy on this site and am generally pretty optimistic. But his playcalling has been reeeeeeeeeal suspect, and has not shown to be an upgrade over Chan Gailey. He’s been awful as an O.C. thus far.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
by ArrowSpread on Sep 27, 2009 9:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
so for the most part
it looks like you may want to direct some discontent to Cassel, since the audibles and checks/hotroutes should be called by him at the line. Haley can’t be on the field to do that too.
I do agree that we got way conservative though. 3rd and 15, down by 20…ya lets run it up the middle.
Depends on if he is allowing Cassel that kind of control at the line..
And if they work on those things in practice. It certainly doesn’t seem like they do.
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
Especially since he threw out Chan's playbook and installed his own...
Is this a product of the learning curve of an entirely new offense with new terminology?
"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech
i really think it is
cassel just looks confused at times with the playcall. I think eventually he will be able to audible and check out of the plays but if he doesn’t have complete grasp of the offense that is hard to do. We will see how much better it gets over the next few gmes.
Contrary to what everybody tends to think, the NFL is about players and not plays.
The truth is there is nobody smart enough to call offensive plays when you lack the ability to block any body. This team has a serious issue and it is a lack of talent. The truth is if the Eagles would have ran every play we ran on offense today against the Chiefs they probably would have beat us just as bad.
by saskwatch on Sep 27, 2009 9:31 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
+2
We Will kick at least 4 Teams Asses in 09
And Succop will be the Key in two of them.
" Think and talk positive football off the field." Hank Stram
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 27, 2009 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
If they ran up the middle every 1st down
I think we would have figured it out. We hammered Vick in that wildcat!
Negative Ghost Rider the pattern is full...
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