Is It Okay for Pioli to Completely Clean House for the Chiefs?
by Matt Conner on Sep 26, 2009 10:52 AM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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Print"If a team out there made a good offer for Bowe, he would be gone tomorrow. Like I said, outside of Cassel and Jackson, there's no Chief who can't be had for the right price. New regimes like their own players; this is not something new to Haley and Scott Pioli. This is a universal truth." -Adam Schefter, ESPN
As a personal fan of Schefter's reporting, I've found him to know what he's talking about, more often than not. Of course, many teams could say the same about a number of players, but for there to only be two untouchable players? This brings up a great question for us to consider as we look forward to Sunday's action:
If Schefter is right (which he might not be), is this a good thing?
In other words, at what point is it okay to completely clean house of the talent pool already established? Is there a point where you're getting rid of players just for the sake of it? There are numerous ways to become a winning team, but from what you've seen so far, what do you think of the formula and Schefter's comments?
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whatever...
this is a business, and players know that if they want to get paid they have to perform
Desperately hoping for Desperate Measures
by averagegatsby on Sep 26, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
If you have someone to replace them, that is as good or better.
But I don’t want too see more Herm stuff, where you trade or cut people just to put in your guys, and they are not as good.
Cassel has something to prove 3TD's against Eagles
by bringbacktheglory on Sep 26, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions
"The right 53 players"
implies that it is pure luck if any of the current players on a team are guys you would select out of all available players.
Given that the GM and Head Coach are ultimately responsible for the product on the field, if they don’t think ANY holdovers fit into their plans they can bring in all of their own guys.
The Kansas City Chief's 2009 record will be 5-11.
If they don't feel any of the players on the current roster are "the right 53 players"
It is probably an indication that they are just as egotistical and looking for glory as some say they are.
The team has tons of holes to fill but there ARE some very good players on the roster. Bowe not the least of them.
Agreed
It’s spooking me a bit how often we’re agreeing this year, DJ. :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Not saying they aren't
I’m just saying as the day-to-day leadership they can do as they feel is best.
If they screw it up, then it is up to Clark to take action as the owner.
The Kansas City Chief's 2009 record will be 5-11.
Problem
One of the major problems if everyone is on the trading block is who are you going to replace them with? I know it has only been a couple of weeks in the CFB season but looking at it so far the areas where we are in the biggest need (OL, 3-4 LB and WR) are really in short supply this year… WR has pretty good depth but if you start trading all of your players for draft picks you are going to be in trouble in the 2010 draft.
We are going to have 3 picks (as of right now in the top 64) That is plenty of picks to get 3 starters for our squad. From the looks of it we are going to be concentrating on RT/RG/C/WR on the O and OLB/ILB/S on the D… Now that is as of right now… Some of those positions might get less attention due to the pickups we have made so far in the off-season.
We need to keep all the players that have any trade value left on the team and that isn’t many :(!
Are there that many guys available?
If they get rid of Bowe, who steps in? The difficulty of finding players at certain positions confusses me about this idea. Pioli thinks there are 50 guys out there that can be had if the deal is right. If they want to trade Bowe, what’s the deal available? Who’s coming in that will be better?
I hope Pioli isn’t counting on a Randy Moss-type deal to fall into their laps (Raiders trade)… If that’s the plan, time to fire him and bring back Marty. We know he can win with scrubs
I like alot of the players on this team. Health problems this early in the season is disturbing, but the mistakes will disappear and I think KC can become the 7th/8th best team in the AFC (no playoffs this year)
Bowe has all the tools...
he could be a top 5 wr if he had someone on the other side to take away the double team….There would have been significant changes if we would have grabbed TJ Housh, and kept Tony G….then Cassell would be 2-0 and approval ratings through the roof..
that would have been amazing
Bowe, Housh, TG?
holy shit
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
WR FA in 2010
Now some of these might get a RFA tag since it will be uncapped and the rules change in that case but check out the list.
Steve Breaston, Antonio Bryant, Braylon Edwards, Vincent Jackson, Brandon Marshall and Sinorice Moss… Most of those guys will get deals but that is a pretty good list that might/might not hit the market… There are plenty of other 3rd WR’s on the FA list but in Haley’s system we need 2 #1 WR’s on our team…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Problem Is
Braylon Edwards is not going to hit the open market, nor are most of the guys you listed. With the expiration of the CBA after this year, free agency now takes six years of service time to acquire instead of four…after this year Edwards will only have five years. Not to mention the Browns are going to franchise him when he becomes a UFA. He’s probably their best player right now (which says more about the Browns’ overall talent than it does about how great of a player he’s been).
Breaston’s not a UFA until after the 2012 season unless he gets cut (which ain’t happening). Marshall’s got two more years after this one. Jackson’s got one. Bryant’s got bad knees and a questionable attitude and we don’t want him…he’s barely able to play right now. Moss doesn’t even belong in the conversation.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
WR's
According to Rotoworld(they are usually 99% correct with contracts)
Steve Breaston is on the last year of his deal. As are Marshall and Jackson… Where are you getting that they have extra years left on their deals?
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Bowe should be among the names that are safe
A receiver so young, talented, and thankfully not disgruntled should be a coveted gem in this league I don’t know why pioli would throw that away.
Contract
I wonder if the fact that Bowe is going to want an extension paying him huge money will have any bearing… Right now we own the right to him for $1.29mil for the 2010 and 2011 seasons combined. He has outperformed his contract to say the least! He is going to want an extension on that somewhere in the range of 3 years $35mil… So we would have Bowe till 31 for 5 years $36mil till 2014! I really think Haley won’t have a problem with this if Bowe continues to show the work ethic like he has this year!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah....
he’s playing for a contract extension.
if he plays well, it could come before the season is over
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Whole new ballgame
There’s a new GM, new Coach, and a totally new system in KC.
Certain holdover players just won’t fit, and will be (have been) replaced.
Other times you’ll get an offer you can’t refuse (Gonzalez.) Even if that hurts this year, it’ll help the team in the long run. Those 2nd round picks are like gold for Pioli.
That being said, I think that most of the trades/cuts have been done already… and Pioli/Haley are starting to get a good handle on the roster.
I still believe they will trade Thigpen as soon as possible.
I think that DJ will come around and get a contract extension.
I think that Bowe sticks around for a long long time.
i think that this may be the last year for LJ as a Chief… but we’ll see on that.
I think that Dorsey, Hali, Tank, Flowers, Bowe, Albert, Waters, Ndukwe, Wade, Succop, Colquitt and a few others are probably safe.
I’m not sure that there are going to be any trades (other than Thigpen) But, the Chiefs will try to draft long term replacements for Waters, LJ, Brown, Mays, Vrabel, Engram, etc.
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
safe list
the guys I listed were in addition to Cassel and Jackson, of course… probably Magee , Washington and Lawrence as well
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
One thing I have noticed
is that there are a few positions that are the hardest to fill in the FA market… Now I am talking about starters not rotation guys.
OL- pretty much any position. Teams hold onto the good ones unless they don’t have the money
DL- now that we are in a 3-4 and so are 14 other teams good luck finding one on the market
LB- as shown from this off-season you might see 2 guys that are studs. You better hope they like the Midwest otherwise KC is out of the picture
Now there are usually and abundance of
WR- if you go back and look at the last couple of years about 4 a year hit the market that are semi-stars
RB- dime a dozen here
TE- you can find a specialized TE pretty much anywhere but finding the complete TE is damn near impossible. Good thing we don’t use a complete TE in Haley’s system (sarcasm)
With all that said… I really don’t see too many guys actually on the Trade Block in KC!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
good points
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Here's The Thing
For all the talk about cleaning house, who has the new regime actually brought in to replace the old guys who was better and could be considered a building block for the future?
a) Matt Cassel
b) Tyson Jackson
c) Alex Magee (maybe…the dude was a 3rd round draft pick)
Beyond that, it’s all guys who are either at the end of their playing careers (Zack Thomas, Mike Brown, Mike Vrabel) or who have serious question marks (Corey Mays). What are they going to replace these “talentless” players with? They didn’t even address the o-line until Parcells threw them a pity/dump trade for two marginal prospects, even when Jason Brown, who fit exactly what the Chiefs needed to rebuild, was available. They kept Larry Johnson and his contract (which is more of a detriment to a rebuilding effort than a help). They apparently drafted more for need than anything else with some pretty questionable prospects outside of Jackson. It’s not exactly a Jimmy Johnson-style reconstruction, especially since there was no Herschel Walker-style trade that will help them cull the top talent. And now the Chiefs are saying they don’t think that guys like Flowers, Carr, Albert, and Bowe can help them win or be part of their future?
Bullshit.
Seriously, if Haley and Pioli are saying that then they’ve got serious control freak issues and they’re never going to succeed here because being able to win in the NFL is just as much about being able to use the talent you inherit as the talent you bring in.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
One thing
“even when Jason Brown, who fit exactly what the Chiefs needed to rebuild, was available.”
He didn’t fit what KC was about this year… He got the LARGEST contract for a Center in the history of the NFL! Is he a top 3 center? No! Is he a top 10? YES! For us to get him away from StL we would have had to give him an even larger deal somewhere around 5 years/ $40mil… That wasn’t going to happen in year one of Pioli/Haley.
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Well
Is he a top 3 center? No!
I’d argue he is. He was the center on a potent rushing attack in Baltimore that held up well against some very good defenses and gave Joe Flacco the ability to have a very good rookie year at QB (which is impressive in itself) . And he’s only 25…meaning he’s still improving. That’s the kind of guy you overpay…especially considering how much cap room the Chiefs have, and especially considering how they traded for a QB of the future and put him behind a horrible o-line.
That wasn’t going to happen in year one of Pioli/Haley.
Why not?
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Pioli
Now I don’t know if this was Belichick or Pioli but look at NE OL draft picks in the first couple of years of the Pioli era.
Assistant Player Personnel
Adrian Klemm-2000 2nd round
Greg Robinson-Randall-2000 4th round
Director Player Personnel
Matt Light-2001 2nd round
Kenyatta Jones-2001 4th round
Dan Koppen-2003 5th round
Logan Mankins-2005 1st round
Nick Kaczur-2005 3rd round
That is 4 of the 5 starters on the NE OL that he drafted after he was the Director of Player Personnel… Those guys a Pro Bowlers most of the time… His Ego will have him drafting OL not picking them up in the off-season. Right or Wrong you know he thinks that way. He is 80% on picking STUDS on the OL.
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
You Neglected To Mention How He Did On The Last Three Years Of Drafting
2006 – Best player, Stephen Gostkowski (4th round). Biggest bust, Laurence Maroney (1st round). Only players still with team.
2007 – Best player, Brandon Meriweather (1st round). Only player still with team.
2008 – Best player, Jerod Mayo (1st round). Biggest bust, Kevin O’Connell (3rd round). Wheatley’s (2nd round) been decent. Shawn Crable’s been a fringe player when he hasn’t been hurt (on IR for 2009).
For the last three years, I see Pioli going 2/3 in the first round (which is solid), but doing a pretty crap job of culling for prospects from anywhere below that.
As for Mankins, Koppen, Kaczur, and Light, these would be four starters on an offensive line that’s been unable to give the Patriots a good running game for years and who are letting Brady get hammered this season. So I wouldn’t call any of them studs right now.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
OL
The topic was OL… Yes those OL who are letting Brady get hammered this year(1 sack in two games) They have let Brady get knocked down a bunch vs the Jets but so will a BUNCH of OL’s this year.
Prior to the Moss/Welker era
2006 20 rushing TD’s 1969 yards 3.9 ypc 29 sacks
2005 15 rushing TD’s 1512 yards 3.6 ypc 28 sacks
2004 15 rushing TD’s 2134 yards 4.1 ypc 26 sacks
After the Moss/Welker era
2007 17 rushing TD’s 1849 yards 4.1 ypc 21 sacks 3 All-Pro selections
2008 21 rushing TD’s 2278 yards 4.4 ypc 48 sacks
As far as OL goes in the NFL these guys are top 8 as a group…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
The One Sack Is Misleading
Brady’s release and savvy in getting rid of the ball are making it look like he’s getting protection, but he isn’t…it’s similar to what happened with Marino in Miami, a great QB making a not-so-good line look great. If you’re watching the games, he’s getting hammered after a lot of his throws.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Yeah
I watched all of the Jet game… Did you notice that NE wasnt keeping max protection in tho… How do you expect to block 7 guys with 5 OL and 1 RB? NE didnt make adjustments well in that game… Too many multiple WR sets.
But yes I have noticed that this year.
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Rushing rankings
2008 6th in yards/ 4th in TD’s
2007 13th in yards/ 5th in TD’s
2006 12th in yards/ 4th in TD’s
2005 24th in yards/ 11th in TD’s
2004 7th in yards/ 8th in TD’s
I will take top 15 4 out of 5 years in yards and top 10 4 out of 5 years here in KC!!!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Just saying
This is one of the better OLs in the NFL and Pioli/Belichick drafted 4 out of 5 of them in 4 years… From his track record for OL I cant do anything but trust what Pioli thinks for one of the biggest problems on our team.
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
nice work
you KNOW he’s loving having 2 second round picks in 2010…
he’s gotta feel like he can get at least one STUD OL
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
I think Scheffter has leaped off the deep end on this one.
I would say in several cases, yes, any one is available if the price is right but, the price tag for a guy like D-Bowe is more than anyone would be willing to pay. That team wouldn’t have a first round pick for the next 3 years.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 26, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Totally agree with you
Got no problem with a new regime bringing in their own guys. I DO have a problem if they are getting rid of good players that could help this team just because they want full credit for turning the team around (if they do).
Yup
Same problem I had with last year’s rebuilding effort…rebuilding a team doesn’t mean burning that team to the ground first. Because when you bottom a team out, there’s a very good chance that team doesn’t come back up for a long time.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
oh yeah,
i know we’re “suppose” to like what we have, but really whats up with a savage, darling, webb, and a hand full of others that you never see? If they cant play, cut there ass! I would have kept a Pollard for a Darling all day long….You cant win divisions much less championships with sub-par talent….lets not fool ourselves here
balance
It’s easy to say “everyone’s available FOR THE RIGHT PRICE”. Of course. But, for certain guys, the right price is accordingly made to be too high except for ridiculous deals (Herschel Walker, Ricky Williams). I seriously don’t think Bowe is really available. For a ridiculous right price, yes. But, that ain’t gonna happen.
A team has to start somewhere and we do have some talent on this team. It’s not healthy to just trade willy nilly anything and everyone just to look busy and important. I don’t think the regime is intending to do this. But, they will have a seriously business first oriented Patriots style process. That is, don’t keep players for sentimental reasons.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Whats Up Chief fans
What were your guys thoughts on the safety Pollard? Texans picked him up this week.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance....
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
You can browse the blog, but you can't participate.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
You can browse the blog, but you can't participate.
Suck it Cowbitches.
There is no need for massive rebuilds anymore
Teams that try to rebuild “Detroit/KC/Cleveland/St. Louis” have been shitty for a couple years and will be shitty for years to come. Teams that retool “Baltimore/Atlanta/Miami” have an opportunity to get good without suffering through numerous 10 loss seasons. If Pioli completely cleans house, I’ll be pissed.
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Sep 26, 2009 11:59 AM CDT reply actions
Agreed
If you’re a head coach or GM and you come into a team and decide that you can’t win with any talent except guys you draft or guys you sign, then you’re part of the problem.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Marty
was the guy who could do this.
He couldn’t ever get over the AFC championship game hump, but he could turn teams around.
The Kansas City Chief's 2009 record will be 5-11.
And He Used Neil Smith
Who was drafted by the regime and coaching staff before him. And Christian Okoye. And Stephone Paige. And Albert Lewis, Kevin Ross, Kevin Porter, and Deron Cherry. He didn’t assume that all of those guys sucked just because they were drafted by a terrible coaching regime before him.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
And John Alt
Can’t forget Alt.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
And he never really found a replacement for Alt.
Just talked all day long about what a great offense he had, because of his interior 3 Shields-Grunhard-Zott, and could never figure out that he sputtered in the playoffs once Alt was gone.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Roaf?
He was a more than adequate replacement for the time he was here…best lineman on those very good Chief offenses under Vermeil.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Roaf was YEARS later, during Vermeil's tenure.
We just snagged the tail end of a great career. There was nobody after Alt for Marty that was any good at left tackle.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Oh Wait, You're Talking About Schottenheimer's Era
Yes, losing Alt definitely hurt.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Same Here
Happens. :)
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Wouldn't 30 players from last year being gone be considered cleaning house?
Just sayin. I think we have already cleaned house and are moving forward already. We will be plugging holes as the right guys become available. I don’t foresee us releasing any of our "good " players unless there is somebody already waiting in the wings who can do the job.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 26, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm willing to give Pioli some lattitude with players that don't fit the new scheme
As much as I like Dorsey and think he will be a good player, I wouldn’t be devastated if he were traded ONLY because he is not really suited for the 3-4 scheme. (though it still irritates me we kept getting the “we are going to play the system that suits our players best” line when clearly our players were better suited for the 4-3)
The only untouchable players right now in my opinion would be Bowe, Albert and Flowers. These players have Pro Bowl potential and are team first players at positions that its tough to find guys in. If they are shipped out it tells me that Pioli actually is more about his ego and wanting to get credit for building HIS team rather than simply what is best for the Kansas City Chiefs.
+1
I really hope he doesn’t let his ego in the way with the guys with “ACTUAL TALENT” on our roster…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 26, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish there would be one discussion about Pioli or the management of this team without mention of Pioli’s ego. Just because Jason Whitlock says he has a big ego doesn’t mean anything. Haven’t seen much ego in any interview, and he’s done plenty.
"Hi, I'm Brian Waters ... "
go away, I’m busy
“right, I know that, but I flew in all the from Afghanistan to say hi and … "
what part of GO AWAY do you not understand?
“look, I know you’re busy and all, but I work for you guys and I was hoping to … "
scram! beat it!! I don’t have TIME to talk to you, I’m busy running a football team!
“precisely, that’s what I wanted to talk to you about! see, our OL needs help and … "
how DARE you come in here and tell ME how to do MY job! beat it!! NOW!!!
(ok, so maybe it wasn’t QUITE like that, but hey … everyone in football knew the Chiefs OL had SERIOUS issues except, apparantly, Pioli – and perhaps Haley – ego? who knows, but there’s something that just isn’t right here – IMNSHO)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
I doubt that's how it went down
I don’t think we know the story here. Waters could very well have been the guy coming in with the big ego. We just don’t know.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
Part Of That Approach By Waters
Was probably due to the fact that he was, at that time, his own agent and so he had to go speak to management about where he fit in. He ended up hiring an agent later in the year to deal with that stuff, I suspect to avoid further blowups.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
but
whether as an agent or as a player, seems like a good, respectful idea to at least make an appointment to see the GM of a football team, not just walk in like a holier than thou ego prick. If that’s what happened, which we don’t know – but kinda sounded like it to me, if I recall.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
I thought "the story" was that he went in to talk and pretty much got told to just scram, period
and as player OR self-agent, if THAT was indeed “the real story” (and we may never know) then yeah, I’d be pissed too – Waters has always seemed like a classy, stand-up guy, does lots of charity work, positive in the clubhouse, etc etc ad nauseum
again, we may never know “the truth” (especially if there’s a 45 minute gap in the secret tape recorder in Pioli’s desk)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
That Was What I Got From The Stories On It
I can understand if the GM doesn’t want players talking his ear off, but then when the player is his own agent, what’s the guy supposed to do? Agents are usually able to talk to GMs…why shouldn’t Waters be able to do so when he’s his own agent?
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
We Have No Idea What Waters' Tone Was
not just walk in like a holier than thou ego prick.
From the comments that Haley reportedly made, it sounds like even if Waters was being egotistical that there were two pricks in the room.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Seems like one of Schefter's more reasonable statements in quite awhile
I have to say that I completely agree.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
schefter is a total denver homer
he use to work for the denver post and he is always up mike shannhans(not spelled right) ass. he would say anything negative about an afc west team just to start crap.
So What?
Most columnists have a team they root for. All that matters is whether he’s right.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Usually I've been a supporter of Schefter...
But lately he seems to be getting drawn to the doucheside that is ESPN and their reporters since he got there. Alot more conjecture and off the wall remarks/rumors then when he was at NFL.com.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
agreed crawford
but, how is this news. i would suggest that every player has a price, witness seymore to oakland. you dont think if pats got an offer for brady they couldnt refuse they would not take it. it is a business everyone has a price on their head so why say this only against the chiefs when every team would do the same.
true, seymour was a heck of an example. at 29/30 after multiple super bowl wins...means anyone on a team that won 2 in the past..27..is available.
did anyone else load the new madden rosters yet btw? LJ took a small hit, but Tank got 8 points, dorsey recieved 2, leggett got 6-10 points…Charles got a point as well….
so if anyone didnt know, it was released without an official announcement. Belcher/Walters/Savage/Battle/Wade/Colclough are all now on the team as well..
And That's Fair
If the Chiefs are getting a great return on the players they’re dumping, I’ve got no problem with that. But they aren’t really. Gonzalez was probably the best trade they made, and all they got was a second round pick in the draft after the one following the trade. Beyond that, they decided to waive arguably the team’s best defensive player the last two years (Pollard) and gave his job to a highly injury-prone 31 year old rather than try to make a better player out of Pollard. And now they’re apparently letting people know that they’re shopping players, which undercuts the trade value further because other teams will think that the Chiefs are more interested in dumping the previous regime’s guys than in putting the most talent on the field.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
They Also Haven't Brought In Much Talent They Can Build With
Who are the building blocks they’ve brought in besides Cassel and Jackson? Who? Their free agent signings were all a bunch of fringe players or guys at the end of their careers. Where’s the young talent that will turn this team around and replace the guys they apparently want to ship out (guys who are also pretty young)? Where’s the core they seem to want to build around? Is their future going to consist of bringing in two good players a year until they get a full team? Because if so, that’s really no different than what Peterson did…he was usually able to get 2-3 players per year too and the team went nowhere for the last decade.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
obviously
D-Bowe is our top wideout
but I do think if we had even one more legitimate WR, a top 25 WR in the NFL…KC would deal Bowe. Simply because it does seem they want their players, that they drafted…heck look at Wade, Haley was there when wade was drafted, and look who our top WR was last game.
Id be fine with Bowe getting dealt, but not till the end of the season…I say that because Cassel needs someone that the defense has to gameplan for…you take bowe out of the offense and who becomes the number one? yeesh.
Here is how much I believe that Bowe will not be traded and will get a new contract in KC BEFORE his current one is up.
I will forfeit my membership to AP if Bowe gets traded and I LOVE AP. It will NOT happen. Not this year, not next year. Probably, not until he has completed his 2nd contract in KC.
Yeah, I agree.
I’m of the same mindset as the folks who have said that the operative phrase is “for the right price.” The “right price” on Bowe would be way more than anyone is willing or able to give. But, c’mon…how many pro-bowlers do we have on our squad? Who are we clinging on to so dearly? Yeah, these are good guys who work hard…but, c’mon!
I really don’t think it’s a matter of ego. I think it’s a matter of a couple of guys coming here and looking at a team that is full of lower-level NFL talent. When you come from a team like NE, you’re used to seeing a level of performance that is top tier. You come here and it’s like…wow…what the hell have I gotten myself into?
It’s like the folks who keep saying we’re getting better with the guys we have on the field right now. Ok. Yeah, we’re improving. And, at this rate, we should make the post season in 15 years. Just because we’re getting better, it doesn’t mean we’re any good. I love my Chiefs and will always be loyal to the team…but, not necessarily to individual players who are just not top-tier talent. I just don’t see us getting far at all with the guys we have on the field right now. WHEN (not if) we do make it to the post season, I think we’re going to have a LOT of different names on the roster. And, it will piss a lot of people off (for some unknown reason) but, they will be players that Pioli and Haley have brought in through the draft and/or FA.
Just my opinion.
by STL-CHIEFS-FAN on Sep 26, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Since KC's sports teams have been bad for a long time, I think people get too attached to individual players.
If you look at the Royals right now, there is great interest by KC sports fans to see Greinke win the Cy Young award this year. The teams is horrible. There isn’t much hope of it getting better soon and they haven’t sniffed the post-season in almost a quarter century. The team is bad so fans latch onto the success of individual players. If Greinke wins the Cy Young award it’s sort of like the Royals winning the World Series. Sort of. Not really but it gives the fans some sort of victory to revel in. The Chiefs haven’t been as bad as the Royals but they haven’t played in a Superbowl in nearly 40 years and not won a playoff game in since the early to mid 90s. So they same thing happens, fans latch onto the success of individual players. Last season was a disaster, but Tony Gonzalez had a great year.
The Patriot organization simply doesn’t have any time for that sentimentality. They cut guys when their salary starts to exceed their on field value. The team is the most important thing and no one player is more important than the team. The Pats have been masterful at this for the past decade.
Chiefs fans need to realize that Pioli will move any player for the betterment of the franchise.
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.
I agree the Pats do get rid of players for that reason but
they don’t do it till they have someone they think can take their place. We don’t have that luxury yet in a few years maybe.
Cassel has something to prove 3TD's against Eagles
by bringbacktheglory on Sep 26, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Schefter is probably right
For a good deal, Pioli would probably trade DBowe. That’s as it should be. Pioli & Haley have both continually said that they will do whatever it takes to make the team better. If that involves trading DBowe for draft picks or needed personnel, then damn right he should…
This is the right thing to do for a few reasons.
1. It improves the teams consistency. DBowe is a great receiver, but if the OL doesn’t give Cassel time to pass, it won’t matter how good DBowe is.
2. It creates competition. Haley & Pioli have always said that they want to create competition to get the best out of every player.
3. It creates more opportunities for getting the right 53 on the field.
Chiefs management proved they would do this when TonyG was traded away. I understand that this was not a popular move, but it worked out good for all involved.
I understand what everyone is saying, but I doubt that a DBowe trade would be made lightly. For now, I’m willing to trust them on this. They will do what it takes to win…
"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...
OK, so if, as you imply, the OL is so important (and I agree it is important) then why, why, why ...
… didn’t Pioli do something about it long before picking up a couple of 2nd string castoffs in training camp? the whole league knew how bad the OL was, including Pioli, but he did what over the winter to address the issue?
as far under the cap as they were and are, I have a very difficult time believing there hasn’t been even one move Pioli could have made in the last 7-8 months to impove the OL
as far as getting “the right 53” on the field, that MIGHT make sense if it wasn’t at the expense of TALENT – over the hill, end of career vets can’t possibly be “the right 53” can they?
and on competition: please! if TonyG was still in KC, do you REALLY believe Pioli/Haley would be bringing in TE’s from all over to “push” him to be “the best that he can be?”
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
There has to be a balance, this ain't baseball.
I would not trade Cassel, Jackson or Flowers.And for whomever of value that might be traded (Bowe or Dorsey) I want value back, this is no fire sale.
I've mentioned this before because it "bugs" me, maybe more than it should, but again ...
Haley/Pioli seem to have this “thing” for the so-called RIGHT guys regardless of talent or ability – now we ALL know that some of the guys they’ve tossed out have been useless, but … on occasion there HAVE been players cut because they weren’t “the right” guy *Pollard?) – so can someone tell me, please … just what the holy heck “the RIGHT guy” really means?
It seems rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face … cut players with ability who could still help simply because … well, because whatever it is they think makes a player “right” that player doesn’t have (or maybe isn’t inclined to do?)
who knows, but yeah, there has GOT to be a balance, and when I see them bring in over the hill vets (why? obviously it’s the RIGHT guy, huh) only to cut the guy later, while using up precious time for others, well … it smacks of Old King Carl’s “win now with older, marginal players” routine, and we all know how THAT turned out
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
I know what you mean but, I also kind of undersdtand what they mean too.
I think the would rather have a smart, hard working player who might have a bit of a chip on their shoulder to succeed as opposed a guy who is dripping with talent but is a “me first” type of guy.
Blue collar lunch pail type of guys over uber-talented divas.
I agree with this approach for the most part. Many great teams have been successful this way. (70s era Steelers, 2001 Patriots, 2003 Ravens etc.)
The 2001 Patriots Had Brady
Cassel’s not close at this point.
The Steelers had Jack Lambert, Franco Harris, Greenwood, Ham, Blount, and Mean Joe Greene…all of who were legitimate superstar players, several of whom are now in the Hall of Fame.
The Ravens had Ray Lewis, Jonathan Ogden, Peter Boulware, Adalius Thomas, and (let’s certainly not forget) Jamal Lewis, who put up a 2,000+ yard season.
“Blue-collar” is a phrase that gets tossed around a lot to identify a certain type of player that some find desirable, but it’s a meaningless phrase based on superficial characteristics not necessarily related to football. Talent + good coaching wins games…always has, always will. And the biggest problem for the Chiefs for the last decade is that they haven’t had enough of either to win.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
You can't say that you knew Brady would do anything remotely close to what he did circa 2001.
And where exactly did this statement come from from Schefter? I haven’t seen anything on this on ESPN/Twitter etc from Schefter only from http://www.nfltouchdown.com
by butchcassidy on Sep 26, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I Didn't Say That
You can’t say that you knew Brady would do anything remotely close to what he did circa 2001.
I didn’t predict the Patriots would win in 2001…I said the reason the Patriots won isn’t because they had “blue-collar” guys but because they had extremely talented players (especially Brady) and a great coach.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
the Patriots ... had extremely talented players (especially Brady) and a great coach
See, there’s the problem right there – we got the wrong guy from the Pats – shoulda gone for Belichick instead of Pioli
slaps forehead
DUH!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
Yeah, loaded with talent.
Hell, they had to scrape up a DB from their WR corps that year.
I don’t think they were the most talented team. But they didn’t miss any bets and they made far fewer mental mistakes than their opponents. And, frankly, they got lucky with the tuck rule and some unbelievable Vinatieri kicks.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
They Had A Very Good Defense
Richard Seymour, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Willie McGinest, Teddy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Ted Johnson…that’s a talented D.
On offense their receiving corps wasn’t that good outside of Troy Brown (who had just under 1,200 yard receiving), but they had a solid starting RB in Antowain Smith and a good line that featured Matt Light, Joe Andruzzi, Stephen Neal, and Damien Woody. So yes they were a talented team.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
"Blue-collar" is a phrase that gets tossed around a lot to identify a certain type of player that some find desirable, but it’s a meaningless phrase based on superficial characteristics not necessarily related to football.
+1
‘Blue-collar’ could be replaced with any number of things, and still remain true: Hardnosed, egotistical, primadonna — all really meaningless without evidence of actions that make it so.
CNN = ABC = NBC = CBS = FOX = Chris Mortenson Journalism
play better pool - http://www.sticksandstonesbilliards.com
Schefter's probably right, as far as it goes.
For all I know, he’s basing his comments on the Gonzo trade and the attempts to shop Pollard and Thigpen. Of course, his theory doesn’t account for Waters asking for a trade and not being given one.
The only thing outta whack that I see in all this molehill is the mountain being built out of it in this thread. :o(
Nothin’ personal. Lots of good discussion, but over the top in terms of Pioli’s thinking and WAY over the top in terms of his actual activities.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
"Cleaning House"
I think that we should clean house…TO AN EXTENT. I don’t think that Bowe should be on that list though. I think if ANYONE is untouchable it should be Cassel, BOWE, Jackson, D. Johnson, Albert, Waters & Flowers.
Re-tooling
I see the Chiefs maybe four players away from contending for 500—a RT,RG, C, WR. Teams re-tool quickly in the NFL—but not by ripping things up every other year. Last year they had what looks like 30 rookies on the team. You don’t keep pulling down the pillars. Again it’s not baseball.
Baseball's Only Got 25 Guys On The Roster
In football you need 50, many with very specialized skills that fit a unique system.
Frankly, I wish the NFL would just realize that unlimited free agency is a hell of a lot smarter (and cheaper) way to build teams than doing a draft plus limiting the supply of free agent talent every offseason with their ridiculous RFA and franchise tags.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
sounds good
‘that which governs least governs best’
CNN = ABC = NBC = CBS = FOX = Chris Mortenson Journalism
play better pool - http://www.sticksandstonesbilliards.com
There Was A Really Interesting Interview I Saw Once
With Marvin Miller, the former head of the MLB players’ union who was the key to bringing free agency to baseball. He noted that he was able to use the owners’ greed against them in collective bargaining by setting up a system by which players remained under the club’s control for the first six years of their career (just like the NFL does). This restricted the pool of guaranteed talent each season to insure that the best players who entered free agency would be guaranteed to get higher contracts because there was a scarcity of talent created by that restriction on the pool of labor. He found it funny that the owners didn’t realize this, considering that most of them were businessmen, but that’s how salaries get inflated.
The NFL does exactly the same thing as baseball under the CBA…they bought into the conventional wisdom that you “must” have a draft to distribute talent, which is how you end up with teams drafting BPAs that don’t fit their schemes and paying slotted money based not on a player’s ability to help the team but on his draft position. And the top free agents each year get exorbitant contracts because they have so little competition for those contracts because the teams have control over their players’ rights for the first four years of their contracts and restrict the labor pool.
I’m honestly surprised how most of the owners don’t understand why they’re driving their own costs up.
Moderator - Arrowhead Pride
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
by UCrawford on Sep 27, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I look at this another way
I don’t see it as Pioli and Haley “wanting” to get rid of a player because he played for Herm and Carl. I see them “wanting” players who are going to get the job done. I see them “wanting” to do whatever it takes to build a winner. If a big name player is not getting the job done then they feel no obligation to keep them around. Pollard is the perfect example of this. If moving a player helps the team more in the long run even if there is a short term loss then they’ll do it (just like with Tony). So no, they would never trade DJ, Bowe, Albert, or Flowers just so that they could replace them with “their guys”. However, if DJ doesn’t step it up he probably won’t be here long term. If some team offered 2 1st rounders for Bowe, they’d probably move him. Shefter’s comment was more about them being commited to doing whatever it takes to build a winner then wanting to clean house because of their “ego”. IMO
The Good: Moved the ball some, stopped the run
The Bad: penalties and not getting a FG before halftime
The Ugly: losing to J. Russel who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from five yards away
I agree
And the Pats mixed and matched pieces all the time.
As to DJ it seems he has been battling a hamstring for weeks that he finally aggregated. Now using him in special situations makes sense so I owe Haley an apology on that one.
Pork Chop is right on
I think the whole Pioli “ego” thing is totally overblown. It’s a fabrication by someone who truly has a big ego, Jason Whitlock!
Pioli has admitted many times that he is going to make mistakes, but he is going to do everything he can to improve this team. If Pioli gets an amazing trade offer for Bowe, I bet he will do it. That comment from Scheffer is just the fact that Pioli will do whatever it takes to build a winner. I for one am on board, but it’s probalby going to take 3 seasons of the Pioli/Haley era before this team can truly compete.
1 A new GM/Coach combo should come in and evaluate film and decide who to keep before the FA period.
2 Next, sign FA’s to fill other needs
3 Then draft to fill other unaddressed holes.
Pioli and Haley failed at those 3 steps and still don’t seem to know who they want to keep.
Keepers on my list would have been :
Gonzo
Albert
Bowe
Flowers
DJ
Pollard
Hali
Waters
Dorsey
But it looks like Pioli/Haley plan to part ways with most of the Peterson picks
They cut 2 2nd rounders – Turk and Pollard
They traded 1 1st rounder – TG
Bowe and DJ – 1st rounders were demoted to 3rd string put on inactive list
Charles and Cottam – 3rd rounders
I expect a lot more players will be cut or traded this season and in the off season
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