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The NFL is a Game in the Shallows

-From the FanPosts. -Matt

It's been awhile since I sat down and made a new post here on AP. I thought it was time to prove to DThomas, Chris, and Joel that I'm not dead yet. For those that know me you will recognize the defensive subject matter. For those that don't, just know that pee-wee to college I played LB in every system there is. I don't know squat about offense, unless it's how to read it from the defensive side of the ball. My posts are never short, so if you're looking for a dessert post you should stop reading now. This will be a multi-course meal.

In the pee-wee's the focus is on letting everyone play. Sure, you want to win but just learning some basics and playing a game with friends is what matters. In grade and middle schools the focus turns to winning, playing with sound fundamentals, and running the ball. The kids just simply aren't physically developed to a point of being masters of their own bodies, and coordination. In high school, as boys become men the focus is most definitely on winning. In fact, in places like here in Texas winning on the high school level gets almost as much press and praise as the college game. In smaller communities it may get even more. Passing becomes much more important, and for the first time ever game plans and schemes begin to take shape. By the time college rolls around we see something that almost looks like the football we know in the NFL......ALMOST.

Only the best of the best make it to the NFL, and only the top 10% of those ever make it to "status" in the NFL. The reason is simple: the NFL is a game played in the shallows. College offenses play the spread offence with a mobile QB that dances around the field while coverage scheme heavy defenses drop players back into coverage and give QB's all day to find an open receiver. This is exactly why week after week you watch college games where teams are scoring 40,50 and 60 points while the pros struggle to break 30. The big play and the long pass is what college spread offenses are made of. If the defenses were even 1/2 as good as the offenses the scores would be lower and the games would be more interesting to watch. Then comes the NFL.

More after the jump...

Star-divide

The NFL will always have need for the pocket passer. The mobile QB that was so good in college often comes to the NFL and falls flat on their faces. The long bomb passes of college are few and far between on most NFL fields. One or two huge pass plays a game are all most NFL teams will ever have. The defenses are better, faster, and stronger. Why, you ask?

A smart pocket passer that can read the defense before the snap, identify the hot route, and deliver the ball quickly and accurately is a must have position in the NFL. A mobile QB without read ability may gain some yards with their legs on occasion, but they will not be successful long term on the NFL level.

NFL defensive coordinators like to dial up blitzes to get to the QB and rattle them. They want to limit the QB's time in the pocket to let a play develop, and they do not want to play coverage schemes that allow a QB to wait for a play to develop and a receiver to eventually get open. In college when a QB reads blitz one of 2 things happens: 1) The QB, who is in shotgun, rolls out and runs the ball against slower weaker defenders. 2) The coach's begin setting up max-protect sets where TE's and RB's are kept in for pass protection. This allows for extra blockers to pick up extra blitzers; again affording the QB's time to dance around waiting for a receiver to get open.

It works in college, BUT... in the NFL the QB's don't get to run around all day because TE's and RB's can't block DE's LB' and S's crashing down in blitzes. Fear not, the NFL has its own solution. That solution is called the 'hot route'. INSTEAD of playing max protect offense the QB is expected to identify the defense in a pre-snap read. The play is then either changed, or the receivers, TE's and RB's are expected to key on the blitz and default to a hot route. The QB takes the snap KNOWING that 7 blitzers are coming and only 6 protectors are available to block. The QB's job is to stand in the pocket and QUICKLY pass the ball out to the hot route before the unblocked or chip blocked blitzer can get there. Only a pocket passer QB that can read the defense can get this done. There simply is not enough time for a QB to dance around in the backfield hoping a receiver can get open. After all, this isn't college ball.

 

The 'hot route' is ALWAYS in the shallows. It might be in the center shallows or it might be in the outside shallows, but it's ALWAYS in the shallows. There's not enough time for the TE, Slot, or RB to get down field for a long 'hot route', so one or more of them will play in the shallows. The NFL game is all about the shallows. Whoever wins the battle in the shallows usually wins the game.

The Shallows are the area of the field behind the LB's and in front of the DB's. It can be inside or outside but it's always between the 2nd and 3rd level of the defense. Not only do blitzing defenses force plays into the shallows, but entire offensive game plans are built around the shallows. It's called a 'play action' pass. Play action passes start out by showing run, and then as the LB's suck up to the line a RB or TE or Slot crosses the middle or drops to the flat in the shallows. The more the LB's crash the line the bigger the shallows become.

 

Wes Welker makes his bones in the shallows. So did Bobby Engram, Amani Toomer, Chris Henry, Tony Gonzalez, Zach Miller, etc etc.... the list goes on and on. Because the NFL is played in the shallows. Should a team decide to make up for the line crashing LB's and slip the safeties/corners up to shorten the shallows then guys like Randy Moss and Terrell Owens will easily slip behind the DB's and take the big play. But as I said before, in the NFL big plays come few and far between.

I have read (and argued against) the idea that LB's don't need to have coverage skills over and over on AP. The shallows are the LB's bread and butter and also their problem to defend. If a team's LB's cannot pass cover in the shallows they may as well take off the helmets and forfeit the game. I have been watching the Chiefs LB's and to put it lightly: their coverage skills need vast improvement.

As an example: Offense lines up with a TE strong 21 personnel. (21 = 2 backs, 1 TE) or a TE strong 11 personnel (you figure it out). At the snap of the ball the back goes HARD to the weak side 2 gap, the QB turns to hand off to the RB and then......... ......the LB's crash the gaps to play the run just as the QB pulls the ball back in. The TE is now in the shallows strong side running a crossing route behind the LB that have given up the shallows to pursue the run.

IF your LB's CANT play coverage then they play poor technique. When they realize that the ball was not handed off they turn 90-100 degrees to the strong and LOOK for the TE. They see him running a crossing route BEHIND them and then they take off to catch up. The QB easily passes the ball to the TE who catches it for a 3-10 yard gain + whatever YAC (yards after catch) he can get.

If your LB's CAN play coverage then they play good technique. When they realize the ball was NOT handed off they turn 180 degrees and immediately run FULL SPRINT behind them. They don't waste time looking for the TE. They get to where he WILL BE to receive the pass, not where is currently is, while crossing the field to get behind them. It seems like a little thing, but that tiny amount of reaction time is the difference between a LB being able to challenge the pass in the shallows, and the TE getting an easy catch and run in the center shallows.

The same holds true for OLB's in the flats. Only instead of turning 180 they need to turn 135 degrees and blast the sideline for the out route. Neither the ILB's or the OLB's have the time to THINK or LOOK for the ball. Instead they have to react to the play and protect the shallows.

Once a LB gets into position to disrupt the pay they have to have the skills to take on a BIG TALL TE or a small FAST RB or a SLIPPERY Slot receiver. They WILL BE OUTMATCHED; either in speed, height, strength, or agility. They cannot let being outmatched mean getting beat. Their coverage technique HAS TO BE so good that with almost zero reactionary time they can blanket a potential receiver and make a play on the BALL. --- That's right, the ball... not the player.

With their back to the QB a LB in coverage has to be able to watch the receiver and know when to make their break/move/jump on the ball based off of the receivers reaction to it. In order to do that their read and react coverage skills have to be tremendous. If they aren't then the LB's team is going to give up 3-12 yard plays in the shallows all day.

As another example: The offense lines up in a 4 wide empty set. (No backs, 1 TE aka 01 personnel or 'empty set') The defense is showing blitz. They are sending 3 linemen, 2 LB's and a safety in to blitz. There are 7 defenders blitzing and only 6 blockers to pick them up.

The offense immediately recognizes blitz. The QB sees is and KNOWS that there will be an unblocked defender. The QB also KNOWS that his #1 receiver will be in single man to man coverage DEEP. The QB also knows that the slot receiver is his 'hot route'. The slot will be running an outside shallows weak. The #1 receiver will streak down the field in man to man coverage, the OLB will be coming in a blitz and the slot will be covered by an inside LB as he slips into the shallows of the area the #1 receiver just vacated.

The QB has only 1 thing to look for after the snap: Did the #1 receiver IMMEDIATELY blow past the CB in coverage at the line. If he DID it's a deep ball pass to the #1. If he did NOT the QB takes the snap and throws to the Slot in the outside shallows.

The only one to protect the entire side of the field is the ILB. If that LB cannot play pass coverage the slot will have 30 yards of open running room before the non-blitzing safety can get over to help. Once again the team that wins the battle in the shallows wins the day.

The NFL is a game in the shallows, more so than any other place on the field. The defenders in the shallows are the LB's.

If your LB's can't play smart football, and play pass coverage then pack your gear up and go home because any pocket passer is going to pick you apart all game long. The Chief's currently cannot play coverage from the LB position. They may get better as the season progresses, but at the moment they are losing the game ---- in the shallows.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 47 comments  |  22 recs  | 

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great post

I agree wholeheartedly, that was the thing that worried me most about the front seven.
Of course you need the pass rush, but no one can get through in the time it takes to throw to most hot routes, and thats what keeps drives alive and costs us games

by midmochieffan on Sep 24, 2009 7:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Agreed..

Very well put. I enjoyed reading it.

by Chiefsfan85 on Sep 24, 2009 7:40 PM CDT reply actions  

That's my boy, TC!

I have never doubted you. :) Good to have you back, bro.

"All praise Chiefus."

by DThomasReigns on Sep 24, 2009 7:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Agreed. Always enjoy TC and Kalo’s defensive breakdowns.

DTR, you ready to fall to 1-2 in the fantasy league?

by JComp11 on Sep 24, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, it's on, JComp.

I got my one loss out of the way early just so I could be sure to beat you. :)

"All praise Chiefus."

by DThomasReigns on Sep 24, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I totally agree,

TC and Kalo are the AP co-Defensive Coordinators. Best defensive posts we have ever had.

Love it!

"All praise Chiefus."

by DThomasReigns on Sep 24, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Psh, check out my starters. Total. Domination.

by JComp11 on Sep 24, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks..

you just made it alot easier to understand why slot guys like Welker are so important to an offense, an good linebackers are a necessity.

by Hoochdawg on Sep 24, 2009 7:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Speaking to your second example...

If the OLB doesn’t cheat and likewise the ILB doesn’t cheat over to his assignment in the slot, is the QB even LOOKING for that hot route, or is he looking further down field because he doesn’t suspect a blitz is coming?

Ball is snapped, OLB makes his way towards the QB who is looking left instead of to his hotroute giving the ILB enough time to get to and protect his assignment.

I think then its a matter of using the extra time allowed due to the OLB not cheating up to find a favorable matchup — like the TE now streaking to the spot behind the ILB to be met by the strong safety — to take advantage of.

I’m not expert, but I get these kinds of looks all the time in Madden and it’s easy to pick apart when you can clearly see what the defense is doing. And spreading the field with 3 and 4 WR sets allows for a much better field of vision.

I was none too happy seeing all the runs up the middle and longer-to-develop plays being called early. I was more inline of opening up with playaction short passes into the ‘shallows’ to get those LBs on their heels.

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech

by ArrowSpread on Sep 24, 2009 7:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Referring to the playcalling in the Ravens game...

"The first step to penetration... must not be lateral"
-Confucius, in contrary to Glenn Dorsey lining up in the 2-tech

by ArrowSpread on Sep 24, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you've got the idea.

I was trying to keep it simple.
But remember…there is an extra blitzer coming with no blocker to pick them up. The QB only has time to make a fast read. He may look to see of the WR beats the CB off the line…. or he may check the ILB to see if he drops to the shallows. If the QB has time and BOTH those things happen than its a pass to the TE in the middle shallows. (Assuming the blitzer has not burried the QB alive before he can get rid of the ball)

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Sep 24, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice post TC rec

Do we have the ILB’s to play the base D? as in no blitz from the ILB’s.
Or do we simply not have the capability to blitz corners or safeties either because we just expose the ILB’s more?

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 24, 2009 8:29 PM CDT reply actions  

we have to blitz

we really have no choise.
In the 3/4 front with the down linemen eating the double teams if we don’t blitz it will always be 3 defenders vs. 5 blockers. (4 defenders if you count the Jack Backer/Predator as an all time rusher).

Without a blitz there will be no pass rush.
No pass rush = Ravens game. (Flacco had time in the pocket to do his taxes while he waited for a receiver to get open)
It doesn’t matter how good your coverage team is. If you give the offense all day to find someone then someone will get open.

We have to blitz to put on pressure. That means we have to expose our LB’s. And that means we have to have some play makers at LB that can hold their own in coverage.
Switching to a 3/4 base = making the LB’s your playmakers. The DE’s are just double team eating plugs. I like Tyson Jackson. He will develop into a good if not great DE, but I STILL think we would have been better served to draft a play maker at LB instead of Jackson.
Could have had Aaron Curry / Malaluga in the middle and McGee and Dorsey on the ends.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynacism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Sep 24, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

can't argue there

I like the Magee/Curry or Rey combination too

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season

by stagdsp on Sep 24, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Same here

Magee does a nice job when he’s playing.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 24, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

I think if Pioli thought Magee would be available at the top of the 3rd they would’ve gone another direction with the number #3

Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"

by Jux on Sep 25, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

interesting thought...

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season

by stagdsp on Sep 25, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

bleh

Magee Curry would be awesome, but I think I’d go with Magee, LT.

Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"

by Jux on Sep 26, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

SO

to address another post with no specific players names mentioned. An ILB would be a priority. I would assume the front 3 D-line are are capable and the depth (except at NT) would be alright. Would you want to strengthen the CB and S positions. Or more LB’s because the will allow what we have in the secondary to play better. The CB’s playing off instead of pressing is just killing me to see?

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 24, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Secondary is set

Maybe FA S this off season M.Brown is getting older. The draft should be nbothing but O-Line, NT, and LBs. mayby WR in 1st or 2nd rd but when has Piolli ever drafted a WR. Bethel Johnson and where is he. I say we will be getting WRs via trade, or FA.
When I look at our needs for depth mostly it is 2-3 LBs, 1 NT, 1 DE unless Gilberry improves enough for for me to feel he is the right person and 3 players on the O-Line. So that is actually 8 players that we could use, plus one WR if none of the players we have decide to step up. We will need atleast 3 players to come through trades or FA this offseason. We can win with who we have are front line needs to be in great shape though as I feel they are almost pulling double thier weight due to lack of depth.

by kcchiefstd on Sep 25, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Always like your post

Sometimes I have to take a nap and then come back to finish though. :)

Cassel has something to prove 3TD's against Eagles

by bringbacktheglory on Sep 24, 2009 8:40 PM CDT reply actions  

Texas Chief?

Is this the same Texas Chief from ChiefsCrowd?

Great post by the way.

However, going into the debate between Curry vs. Jackson, it is a tough predicament. I think part of it came from the idea that Pioli and Haley both did not think that Dorsey could transition to 3-4 DE. I can’t blame them for that. Dorsey has done better than most people thought he would. He may not have a sack yet, but he is making tackles and pushing the pocket. What more can you ask of a 3-4 DE. Heck, even Magee is playing decent for a rookie. I am kind of surprised that Curry was not the selection, but Jackson was seen as an immediate plug-in player. You could say the same about Curry and I know you know this Texas Chief, but the linebacker only looks as good if his D-line keeps linemen off of him. I think management chose Jackson as the for-sure foundation to make the 3-4 work.

by theaxeeffect4721 on Sep 24, 2009 8:58 PM CDT reply actions  

I just wanted to add that I am not saying that Jackson was the right choice over Curry, but that management played it safe and chose the guy they knew would help them, even if Curry may hold more potential.

by theaxeeffect4721 on Sep 24, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think management chose Jackson as the for-sure foundation to make the 3-4 work

Yeah, around draft time Pioli talked about how he had seen defenses built in the past and that he was going to pattern the drafts and pick ups after those defenses.

by JComp11 on Sep 24, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know if you guys have noticed but...

It seems that Pioli really leans toward older, wiley, veteran LBs. Bruschi, Seau, etc.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 24, 2009 9:49 PM CDT reply actions  

That might be Bellichek

and maybe it was just this year as Pioli wanted/had to have some 3-4 DE’s.
I think LB will be THE position of impact in next years draft. DJ will be a FA if all that contractual/league stuff gets worked out. ILB, OLB, and maybe another. Demorrio Williams and Vrabel contract status I don’t know

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 24, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great contribution, TC!

I feel smarter after reading things like this and most of the original stuff posted on AP.

And chiefnyc, I have to assume you are wondering why TC isn’t a writer/blogger instead of some paid personnel at sites outside AP. This blog – AP – has some of the best blog administrators anywhere, sports or not. Excellent mix of articles. Timely. Fair and open in refereeing the contributors. I’m sure that’s what you meant, because you go on to mention other blog experts of the NFL world. The policies and procedures of the people running AP are what allow/encourage TC to join the forum. Agreed with your “props” statements, too, nyc.

by sunny D on Sep 24, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

TC is awesome

and very busy, so we always love to hear his insights.
The are many others here that just drop awesome bombshells of info on occassion :)

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 24, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

First let me say this is an AWESOME post with great info.

I know it was not your main point, but you stated “(In College,) If the defenses were even 1/2 as good as the offenses the scores would be lower and the games would be more interesting to watch. Then comes the NFL.”

Obviously we get our good NFL offensive players from colleges. We planet do we get our good defensive players from?

by Nemoi on Sep 24, 2009 11:24 PM CDT reply actions  

ah

You bring up a good point. This is one of the big reasons why it takes awhile to make the transition from college to NFL, because of the speed and complexity of the game. A RB or WR can make the adjustment faster than most players but it takes time for the difference to soak in to most of the D.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Sep 25, 2009 5:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh that is beauty...

Showing people the meaning of the term “FanPost”….Model…

Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...

by woodman212 on Sep 24, 2009 11:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Sic post TC

That helps massively. In the context of the Chiefs, it raises my level of optimism for the Offense (and Matt Cassel) but has me wondering about how long of a year it will be for the Defense.

Absolutely fantastic post. Thanks for the effort. I’ve already read it twice. Big rec.

Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!

by Buck'O on Sep 24, 2009 11:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Nice post

Thanks for the defensive education.

.

by Major Tom on Sep 24, 2009 11:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Totally thank you

This is the kind of post that I really come to AP for. I have learned so much about how football is played since I started coming here. Loved the game since I was a little kid but was never an athlete and never played it in organized form. I appreciate the education you provide here. Wish I could give it multiple recs.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Sep 25, 2009 5:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Nice informative post

Definitely worth a rec…

I guess our team management was thinking that our LBs would develop the coverage skills needed. Sometimes, learning through trial & error is the only way. While I agree that we’re lacking, I’m not sure that we’re that far off. I also think our defense can make this work with the current personnel…

I’ve seen some very good coverage from some of our LBs, specifically DJ & Vrabel. DJ had an INT and Vrabel always seems to be in position to make the play. Mays needs some work, but I don’t think Tamba will be asked to do much coverage. We also have some flexibility with Demorrio & Studie…

I think / hope / believe that our LB corp is starting to gel. Yes, there will be growing pains, but we’re leaps and bounds from where we were last year…

"Every day is an evaluation and if you’re not out there how can we depend on you? If you’re out there and you don’t know what to do, how can we depend on you?" Accountability -- Haley-style...

by Chief_Elmo on Sep 25, 2009 6:33 AM CDT reply actions  

This post

Brought me out of lurking in the shadows.
Great post TC. Love when you have time to stop by, and I’m super excited that you’re not dead!

Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"

by Jux on Sep 25, 2009 9:43 AM CDT reply actions  

?

What ever happened to stuffing the TE when he comes off the ball? It seems like they always get a free pass anymore. …Not sure how I posted that Question? before I was done. Anyway, good post.

by 12t on Sep 25, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm in the same boat as you, 121.

All these defensive geniuses talking about coverage and I’m talking about jamming that pesky TE at the line, which is where your LB does the MOST good against him. Same with RB.

The best defenses do that. All the rest talk about needing better coverage LBs.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Sep 25, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice, conventional wisdom.

I’m still on kill-the-qb rather than pretend you’re a defensive back, when it comes to LBs.

I like your sense that it’s more about getting a deep enough (or wide enough) drop, in general, than it is about a LB trying to run with a TE or RB in the pattern.

What I don’t generally agree with is that playing good coverage is a weakness in our LB corps. I will always maintain that it’s more important to establish a level of pressure on the QB that gives your guys who ARE covering an edge. When that base level of pressure isn’t established, you’re going to think your LBs suck in coverage, and that is the problem, right now, that I see with the KC D. Much different cause and effect than Texas Chief seems to think.

Even that TD pass to the TE that everybody disses Mays on, Mays actually had a hand on the ball, but Heap just made a great play. It wasn’t like Mays didn’t get to his spot, although he might’ve been there quicker, I suppose, but generally not that bad.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Sep 25, 2009 12:01 PM CDT reply actions  

So, we have had Kalo's fantastic post and TC's fantastic post...so

where are you, TheQ?

I need you to drop some serious postage. As your agent, I also need you to position yourself for a new contract…like now!

What about the twinkie?

"All praise Chiefus."

by DThomasReigns on Sep 25, 2009 8:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Chiefs +8.5. Nobody's interested, except for Vick.

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Sep 25, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have no idea.

Aside that everyone I have ever met from Philly is a jackass, the Ravens game will be on local TV here.

What about the twinkie?

"All praise Chiefus."

by DThomasReigns on Sep 26, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

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