Was it a Mistake for the Chiefs to Trade for Matt Cassel?
Was it a Mistake to Trade for Matt Cassel? The answer at this point should be pretty clear: Mark Sanchez rallied his team from behind en route to a 2-0 record, while Matt Cassel threw two interceptions and failed to score on a last minute drive leading the Chiefs to a winless 0-2 record. Seems pretty clear that the Chiefs whiffed by passing on Sanchez, doesn't it?
Right?
Hopefully you can sense my sarcasm radar going off the charts. Unfortunately, for many, that logic is not that far off track. Matt Cassel has only started one game and many fans are already getting their pitchforks out of their closets. If you haven't heard the comparisons by now, I promise you that you will within the next few weeks.
For the record, I don't have an opinion. I like them both. I don't know if Sanchez is better than Cassel. I don't know if Cassel is better than Sanchez. I don't know.
I don't know. Frankly, I don't care.
I DO know that you can't make that kind of a judgment after only one week of play. You can't even make that judgment after one month. Players have bad days. Some players adjust to a new offense quicker than others. And no two teams are alike: could Mark Sanchez win football games as a Chief? Could Matt Cassel win games as a Jet? I don't know. I don't pretend to know.
And I'm not going to force some hypothetical situation where I envision whether Sanchez could have led the Chiefs down the field in the fourth quarter against Oakland. I won't, because I don't know how Sanchez would have fared in the first three quarters against Oakland's potent pass defense and I don't know how he would have fared coming back from an MCL injury that limited his mobility and leg strength. I don't know how he would have fared throwing to the Chiefs' receivers behind the Chiefs' offensive line. Maybe he would have fared better, maybe he wouldn't have. The two situations are entirely different. Most of all, I don't know how either Sanchez or Cassel will fare against Oakland the second time around with a little experience under their belts.
I don't even know how Matt Cassel will fare next week. This time last week, everyone was talking about Jay Cutler's embarrassing performance against the Packers and how big of a mistake it was for the Bears to trade for him. Cutler looked pretty good on Sunday and he helped beat a team that happened to win the Super Bowl last year.
There's also another thing I DO know: Matt Cassel is not our guy if he's making the same mistakes he made on Sunday eight games from now. On the bright side, Cassel proved that he won't be a bust in a downgraded offense. He made a lot of really good throws and had a relatively productive day, if you factor in rushing yards and dropped passes. We also saw Cassel's ability to electrify the offense. He has that "it" factor that Brodie Croyle simply does not have. However, Chiefs' fans want more than "good enough" and rightfully so. What has separated the Eli Mannings from the Alex Smiths is that the Eli Mannings progressively got better. I don't excuse Cassel's performance on Sunday nor do I believe that he proved he is the Chiefs' "QB of the Future."
He made critical game-changing mistakes, many of which were made late in the game. Jason Whitlock wrote an interesting article today and, like my reaction to most of his articles, I disagree with the general conclusion but agree with a lot of the points made. Whitlock brings up an interesting point that Cassel needs to prove he's Haley's guy and not just some guy Pioli dragged in from the Patriots. Cassel also needs to prove he can be comfortable as a pocket quarterback and can eventually run an offense that runs primarily under center-he still seems to be a lot more comfortable running plays out of the shotgun. I do think Whitlock is reaching when he suggests that Haley isn't gung-ho about Cassel. Haley was singing Cassel's praises pretty much all offseason. Given that even Dwayne Bowe has been demoted on this team so far, it's safe to say that Haley's lack of enthusiasm for Cassel is likely a way of letting Cassel know that his job isn't as safe as he thinks it is. I don't think it implies in the slightest that anybody but Cassel is being considered as the Chiefs' long-term option.
Looping back to some of my previous posts, my first post spoke about viewing the Chiefs' rebuild with an objective lens. You can't possibly look at Matt Cassel's performance on Sunday and believe that he is the Chiefs' "QB of the Future." On the flip side, you can't look at one week of performance and bellyache about how he never will be.
And you certainly shouldn't make this apples to oranges comparison between Mark Sanchez and Matt Cassel. If you do, table your arguments until at least a half-season from now. Personally, I think Mark Sanchez has more upside of the two, but I don't care. I only care about whether Matt Cassel will eventually be a guy who can lead the Chiefs to a Super Bowl. The Giants got a far less productive quarterback in Eli Manning versus Philip Rivers and they gave up a lot of draft picks to get him. Do you think the Giants regret for one second making that trade? I can tell you that many Giants fans regretted that trade big time until Eli won a Super Bowl for them. Ben Roethlisberger has never come even close to Rivers' 4,009 yards of production in 2008. Do you think the Steelers regret for one second choosing Roethlisberger because they couldn't get Rivers?
Cassel shouldn't have to prove that he's better or worse than Mark Sanchez, just as Eli Manning shouldn't have had to prove he's better or worse than Ben Roethlisberger. If Sanchez turns out to be a better quarterback statistically, but Cassel leads the Chiefs to the Super Bowl, then who really cares who the better of the two is? Matt Cassel is the Chiefs' quarterback, not Mark Sanchez. For some of you, that might be hard to deal with, but Cassel deserves a fair shake to prove OVER TIME that he was the right guy for the job. That means he needs leeway to make mistakes and he needs time to prove he's learned from those mistakes. And even if he isn't the better of the two, he deserves a fair shake to prove OVER TIME that he can take this team to the top.
Matt Cassel doesn't have to be the better quarterback of the two. He just needs to be the right quarterback for the Chiefs.
1 recs |
124 comments
|
Comments
At least Matt drove down the field
On the last drive instead of standing around and throwing 2 yard passes like Brodie.
I think this QB controversy is going to hurt our team rather than help it. Without that stability in the locker room, the offense could be shaky.
by TonylovesKC on Sep 23, 2009 9:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
what controversy?
i don’t think for a second that the chiefs think anyone but cassel will be the starter at least for this entire season; more likely 2-3 min.
by E.C. on Sep 23, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, there is no controversy
Some of our media friends are blowing this whole thing up.
by 3GChief on Sep 23, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it's hard to imagine, but I can EASILY see Croyle playing in the 4th quarter a LOT.
Chiefs up 2 TDs. LJ running like a beast. Standing ‘O’ for Cassel, when they see Croyle coming in to steer the ship home.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Sep 23, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was probably the dumbest comment I’ve ever read. Why not bring up Cassel’s playmaking ability at the end of the first half. Nice
by T-Rich on Sep 23, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, i know what ya mean
but i think what he probably meant was the D-bowe TD drive
by E.C. on Sep 23, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That long pass to Bradley from Croyle was sweet.
Standing off-balance, about to be clobbered, Croyle launches it past the defender with a pure arm pass. That’s a Jay Cutler or young Favre/Elway kind of throw.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Sep 23, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes it was def sweet
it was also under thrown, of course, the pressure probably had something to do with that
the one that i really liked a lot was the cassel to d bowe touchdown pass, that was a sweet touch pass in a perfect spot
by E.C. on Sep 24, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should Have Taken Sanchez
I don’t think we made a mistake to get Cassel, however Sanchez would have been with the team for the next 10 years, not just 5.
by AirForceChief on Sep 23, 2009 9:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude
Cassel is 26, if he is our guy he will be here for a decade.
Don't blame me, I voted for content of character.
by paratrooper on Sep 23, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel is actually 27
However he has been sitting on a bench in college/NFL so his body has not taken the punishment that a normal 27 year old QB would have taken. He has also gotten to sit and learn behind some good QBs. I would rather have Cassel behind our line than Sanchez at this point.
by BAMFSpecialOps on Sep 23, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez...
better win at least 11 games this year with a good Jets team. Give the Chiefs some time to build a team around the guy. Then man needs some offensive lineman and at least one more weapon to throw to.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Sep 23, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah man
it was totally bogus to let Rich Gannon go too.
Blame my wife!
Waiting until August!
by sir eccles on Sep 23, 2009 9:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Had no choice.
The mistake had already been made with the signing of overpriced FAs.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Sep 23, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cassel should be fine
one of the better players on the team
he’ll grow with the team and get better
Before you build yourself up, you must tear somebody else down.
by Zennedy on Sep 23, 2009 9:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice article
Also Cassel DID lead us on a game winning TD drive int he 4th quarter in case anyone has forgotten. He cam up clutch, threw a perfect TD pass to D-Bowe and left the game in the hands of our D with 2 minutes to go. All they had to do was stop the Raiders and the game is over.
Cassel just couldn’t lead us on TWO 4th quarter TD drives but for now, I will settle for him driving down the field in the 4th quarter with time running out and giving us the lead..
And as many herelike to remind us…we couldn’t do that last year.
Cassel played far from perfect football but it was clear he was not only the best QB on the team but the best leader.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Sep 23, 2009 9:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn Cassel...
he needs TWO 4th qtr TD drives to prove his worth! :P
by worc on Sep 23, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And lest we forget, that mismatch on Bowe was the product of conditioning.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Sep 23, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here is some food for thought
Croyle 2-TD 0-INT Vs. Ravens D
Cassel 1-TD 2-INT Vs. Raiders D
i think cassel has more upside….but these numbers tell a story
by KCCheeze on Sep 23, 2009 9:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: food for thought
But not the full story. i think the Raiders have a better pass defense than the Ravens. Run defense is a different story. Philip Rivers had a big week against the Ravens’ D last week but struggled quite a bit against Oakland. There are some that even wonder if that defense might be suffering from losing Rex Ryan.
by Jon Yoon on Sep 23, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
Croyle threw the ball 24 times and Cassel 39 and one of the interceptions was just a hell of a play by Huff and one of Croyle TDs he didnt have to drive the field Derrick Johnson did it for him
by tomahawk44 on Sep 23, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the other one
The Ravens played a Prevent defense. Not a good indicator.
"I don't know if I want to go to New York. They'll have to pay me a lot more money because I like it here in Kansas City." -- Roger Maris
by KaloPhoenix on Sep 23, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bah
Croyle lead the team on one scoring TD drive just like Cassel. Croyle’s other TD was a gift from DJ though I give him full credit for making a great throw on that play.
I also give Croyle credit for not throwing any picks.
But you left out the number of yards and 1st downs we got with Cassel under center.
IF you rack up a lot of first downs and yards eventually it is going to lead to points. I know the Chiefs didn’t take advantage of their offensive success against the Raiders but if it continues they will.
Also, take away defensive turnovers and special team play, the Croyle lead Chiefs lose n a blow out and his numbers look awful. INTs or no INTs.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Sep 23, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom line.
Cassel shows the ability to LEAD the offense, not MANAGE the offense. Croyle is a good QB IMO but, Cassel has the winning attitude and leadership that this team has been lacking for a long time. He made a couple of mistakes but the good plays outweighed the bad ones by a lot.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
so does this…..
Cassel put his team AHEAD with 2 mins to go.
Croyle led team lost by 7, and really wasnt ahead.
Those numbers put out dont tell the whole story, nor do mine. But I can wing random stats around too, if you’d like….crack me up….no way someone believes this team should be led by a guy who is 0—-13 as a started…no way.
Chiefs FTW
by The_IT_Guy on Sep 23, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He needs to win
It’s that simple. Close isn’t going to cut it. He needs to put one of these next two teams away when they have them on the ropes. That’s the only way to diffuse this situation and that’s precisely how Haley wants it.
He’s done it before with the Pats. Now he has to do it with the Chiefs. It’s that simple.
Of course, that attempted onside kick was a momentum killer. Parcells was famous for those too, and more than 0.500 of the time, they bit his own team in the azz. Haley has to stop that cute shit and play honest football, and then see if Cassel can win.
by jcru on Sep 23, 2009 9:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No way!
They onside kick killed nothing. The D stepped up and the Raiders got no points out of it! If anything the onside kick HELPED the momentum, because it amped up the D.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Sep 23, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't care much for that call...at all!
But, sometimes you just have to say “fuck it”. We almost got the recovery and if we had, Arrowhead would have been ELECTRIC and would’ve done a lot to fire up the whole team.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like it
Because it makes a statement. Parcells was getting really wacky in his old age at the end of his career. He always preached ball control football, and then he would attempt risky plays like that towards the beginning of the game, which have the potential to drastically swing momentum.
I have no problem with the team doing that if they are down and need it, but doing it then, at the beginning of the game stinks of desperation and makes it look like he doesn’t have confidence in his team. I just don’t agree with it. And that was before the turnover.
Cassel is basically on the hot seat right now because of his two turnovers and the play at the end of the 1st half that was basically like a turnover because it yielded no points. Then, Haley goes and gives the other team a gift turnover. Be consistent with your message, is all I’m saying.
by jcru on Sep 23, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be a major difference
I’d say, in a Parcells coached team and a Belichick coached team. Belichick would never do that. I’d have to agree with Belichick on this one, it’s just not worth it.
by jcru on Sep 23, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um....Belichick tries crazy shit
All the time. Honest football, if it isnt winning football, doesnt help. That drive call didnt hurt us. Good time for it too. U are naysaying because it didnt work. You know what they say about hindsight….
Chiefs FTW
by The_IT_Guy on Sep 23, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, actually...
I saw the kick in progress on tv, and I said “aw, f@CK! Noooo!”
While it was in progress, before he went out of bounds.
You probably saw the kick in progress and went “Aw, Yeah!!”
That’s the difference. I just think it’s a stupid call, you think it’s a brilliant call.
I’m basically pleading not to do it in the future, you are saying go ahead, I want to see it in the future.
So, this really has nothing to do with hindsight.
by jcru on Sep 23, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez would have struggled behind our line...
…and with our receivers if he would have been a chief. And after two games a lot of people would have been asking whether we should have traded for some guy like Cassel.
Bewsaf
by Bewsaf on Sep 23, 2009 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think there should be more made of the "it" factor you were talking about.
The guy is a crazy competitor and he wears it on his sleeve. We don’t have a QB who shows the competitive spirit or leadership qualities that Matt C. has shown in only one game. I feel like we are in good hands with him as our QB if for no other reason, his drive to win.
Once he get’s rolling in this offense, we are going to be a force to reckon with. especially if our defense keeps showing the improvement they’ve shown so far. This team is going nowhere but up.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 9:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This "It" Factor is Over-rated
Joe Montana played his whole career with a calm cool demeanor and I don’t recall ever watching him signal a “first down”. I liked it, I’m not bashing it but this supposed “leadership” skill is something that comes with wins. If Montana had thrown a pick on the sprint right pass to Taylor people wouldn’t remember him the same way. He “wouldnt have cared enough”.
I’m behind whichever QB leads to Wins.
by Ryan in Nixa on Sep 23, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just Cassel's thing
He wants the entire team to go nuts when they score. He was like that from day one as a rookie in practice in New England. He would be like that against Brady, and they really got on. He’s extremely competitive. You see Bret Farve like that too. I’m not saying I’m a Farve fan at all, I’m not. But Cassel isn’t going to change in that aspect. Like Haley isn’t going to stop yelling at players. It’s just part of his fabric.
by jcru on Sep 23, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are a lot of different manifestations of "it."
Montana
Marino
Favre
P. Manning
Elway
5 of the greatest QBs of all time with visibly different onfield demeanor and leadership. Watching them, I would say they all have it.
Cantaloupe? More like wontaloupe. Lazy ass melons.
by cucuybird on Sep 23, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks Related To Perception
Notice all five of those guys were considered “handsome” by most standards. Don’t confuse “it” with a mancrush.
by Ryan in Nixa on Sep 23, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peyton Manning is handsome?
News to me.
by NotAHippie on Sep 23, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elway? Manning?
Those are a couple of ugly dudes.
Cantaloupe? More like wontaloupe. Lazy ass melons.
by cucuybird on Sep 24, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know why...
I continue to read some of these peoples comments. Matt C was out for damn near 3 weeks. He comes back in and was a little rusty. I have family in Nebraska and Boston therefore I follow the Bo Sox and Huskers. When David Ortiz went 0-37, did they boo him? NO, they stood up everytime he walked up to the plate and cheered “PAPI PAPI”. Yes, Ortiz has a track record therefore they weren’t all riding a ray of hope, I understand that. Bill Callahan ran our IMACULATE 25 years old Tom Osborne built tradition into the ground with his West Coast Offense that was going to revolutionize the program. 3 years later after miserable seasons, still sell out after sell out.
I know I am comparing granny smith apples to fuji apples (sports is sports, so im not comparing apples to oranges) however through a broad lense its all the same. The bandwagon for anit-Cassel/Hayley/Pioli is getting pretty full, which means there will be room right next to me EVERY week rooting for my Chiefs! Get down with your bad self KC, dont listen to these idiots.
by Chiefsovermywife on Sep 23, 2009 9:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If HIV asks
Sanchez sucks balls
Welcome to Chiefs REBUILD - Version 2.0 /The Clark Hunt Edition
Chiefs will be lucky to go 4-12 in 2010
by KansasCityShuffle on Sep 23, 2009 9:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cassel was worth a second--
…and if Brodie sneeze hard he will be on IR for the rest of the year—Haley I’d pitchfork
by FrankPitts on Sep 23, 2009 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen brother
Brodie is bound to get hurt soon
.
by Major Tom on Sep 23, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he isn't
Cause unless there is a disaster he won’t see the field again.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Sep 23, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I call bullshit on that.
Who are you Nostra fucking Damus? You know he’s going to get hurt.
Can you give me a time and date so I can take it to Vegas??? Maybe I can make some money.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watch the language tough guy.
you think Croyle can make it through 3 games without getting hurt? Maybe with the NY Giants line, but not ours.
.
by Major Tom on Sep 23, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well hell back it up if you're going to say it.
If you can give me the time and date when Croyle is going to get hurt, I’ll LITERALLY kiss your ass.
The fact is that you have no idea what’s going to happen. The kid might get hurt, then again he may have to play a whole season behind our crappy line due to some unforeseen incident and do great.
I don’t want Croyle playing any more than anybody else here but, to say that he IS going to get hurt is bullshit. What’s even worse is when I’ve seen people on here who say they hope he get’s hurt. (not you but, I’ve seen it on here before)
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chifsfan1970
I agree people can be hard on Croyle but you have to look at the facts on this one.
2 years ago he missed multiple games when Herm wanted to start him for various injuries.
Lat year he was named the starter from day one and was hurt twice?
Bad luck? Maybe. Those injuries last year sucked but you know what? Croyle has had a lot of injuries keeping him out for a long time.
It isn’t abour predicting WHEN he will get injured but that he WILL. If a QB thows a lot of picks and has a past of throwing picks he is probably going to throw more. He could improve sure but is it a chance you want to take?
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Sep 23, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is my problem with it.
It’s the fact that the kid gets NO SUPPORT. He had a great preseason and he played well against a top 3 defense, taking lots of hits along the way. He is a #2 QB for the Kansas City Chiefs. Since I am a fan of the Chiefs, I will support him.
I really don’t think he should be labeled weak or soft because he got hurt early in his career. The hits that knocked him out of games were mostly pretty bad shots that would have probably been long term injuries for other NFL QBs as well. He was thrown into the fire with a terrible game plan as well as a horrendous offensive line with a terrible coach who is notorious for getting his QBs killed with horrible, predictable play calling. (see 2004 Jets, 2008 Chiefs)
I reserve my judgement of him until I see him play in a couple of games with AT LEAST decent pass protection. if we had a chance to see that, I think most fans would give him the benefit of a doubt.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
On Brodie injuries and QB controversy;
I used to ride and jump motorcycles until a major injury ended it all, the point I’m going to make is not about me, its about the friend I rode with who is is crash-happy. He wipes our A LOT, he also snow-skis, and wipes out A LOT, yet he has NEVER had even a moderate injury and the guy is now over 50. If you watch tape of him crashing you can see why, he is fluid and smooth, like a stunt man. At the point of impact some people are inclined to tense up and exacerbate the situation and some just naturally roll with it. I think Brodie is injury prone. Watch him being pressured in the Ravens game, he looks “spazy” when the pocket is collapsing, watch Matt in the Raider game, he looks “hurried” but much less tense.
I do believe in the “injury prone” factor so consider this; If Cassel were benched in place Brodie that would damage his confidence, then once Brodie goes down with an injury we have a less-effective Matt Cassel coming back in.
One final thought, until we have a consistent offensive line and receiving core its going to be “go fish” week to week on ANY of the QB’s performance.
Dauntlessly Matriculating
by SoCalChief on Sep 23, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like you want him to get hurt...
i just expect him to be ready as a back up. I don’t think he’s done anything to be crucified by people other than getting backed by Herm. He’s pretty decent and Cassel is most certainly the starter.
I just don’t understand why the constant aminosity towards Brodie. Blame Carl and Herm for drafting him, but don’t blame him for trying to quietly do his job the best he can. He’s doesn’t go out there with the intent to injure himself. If the o-line protected him better and didn’t one of the rookie RBs whiff a pass block in Game 1 last year that got him injured???
by worc on Sep 23, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take Jackson, Vrabel, and Cassel over Sanchez and whatever our second round pick would have been any day.
by JComp11 on Sep 23, 2009 10:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the right answer.
It’s not Cassel vs. Sanchez, at all. It’s Tyson Jackson, Cassell and Vrabel vs. Sanchez and a 2nd round pick.
I also would take the first group over the second.
by Offense of the 70s on Sep 23, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you are assuming that a Sanchez first round choice would have nullified
any trades to follow that would have landed linebackers, defensive lineman, etc.
Before you answer that do remember what the Raiders got at the eleventh hour.
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Sep 23, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another trade would have a cost too.
Of course it doesn’t nullify any potential trade, but other trades to fill other holes have nothing to do with this comparison. If you’re comparing the Cassel trade to drafting Sanchez instead, then the equation is Tyson Jackson, Cassell and Vrabel vs. Sanchez and a 2nd round pick.
But let’s say we want to assume that we draft Sanchez and then ALSO make a different move to pick up a different LB instead of Vrabel. Fine, but then the cost of that deal has to go into the equation as well.
Let’s use a recent real life example of a trade for a LB, just to plug some names and values in. Let’s assume that we traded our 7th pick for that LB Burgess that the Patriots just traded for.
That theoretical trade would make the equation Tyson Jackson, Cassel, Vrabel AND Ryan Succop vs. Sanchez, a 2nd round pick, AND the LB Burgess.
The first group is still better.
Anyone else we would’ve brought in instead of Vrabel would have a cost to us that we avoided by getting him in the Cassel trade.
by Offense of the 70s on Sep 23, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm tired of hearing about how "soft" Croyle is.
That is some really tired shit. He has played quite a bit and played a full game against arguably the best defense in football w/o any kind of injury and he has taken some NASTY shots along the way. People need to get over the injury concerns because he has shown some toughness so far this season. Also, that shot he took last year against NE was really really bad. it would have knocked out most QBs in the NFL.
The bottom line to me is that he is a Chiefs QB, he has played relatively well and I think we should support him until he does something to merit all the criticism. I’m not saying we should be crowning him king or anything like that but, damn you guys can be harsh at times.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 10:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Has Croyle ever started 3 games in a row?
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Sep 23, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not as worried about his durability
as much as the fact that he can’t escape the pocket and make plays like Cassel and Thigpen. I think a lot of that has to do with his injury history. He seems so much more timid than the other QBs.
by jonnyu on Sep 23, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're on to something, there.
Maybe no timidity, but there’s an instinctive thing about how to take hits and how to fall that, sometimes, the focus that we LIKE in him, gets him in trouble. I don’t think he’s much more fragile.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Sep 23, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is funny you are getting mad at people bashing Croyle.
And you say he is a Chief QB so people should support him. But you are the biggest basher of Thigpen I have ever seen and at least for now he is a Chief QB. So maybe you should take your own advice.
Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!
by bringbacktheglory on Sep 23, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference is...
Croyle might actually get a chance to play!
Just kidding. Point taken.
If you haven’t noticed, I made a point NOT to discuss Thigpen vs Croyle on a thread about a week ago. I have taken a vow and I am sticking to my guns. I REFUSE to talk about that anymore.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on the support
And give him props for his job opening week.
They have right to look to his past, its the best way to predict the future. He is injured alot.
And I am comfy having him as a BACKUP Qb. totally ok with that. But to see that after one week (again, not saying you said this) I still think he is marginally better that Brokie :)
Chiefs FTW
by The_IT_Guy on Sep 23, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
W/O a doubt.
I am totally on the Cassel bandwagon. I just think Brodie get’s a bad rap and it has begun to get on my nerves. if he has to play, I will be pulling for him just like I would thigpen and I H8 the idea of Thigpen in there.
I want the Chiefs to win no matter who is playing QB. If everyone else is hurt and we are down to our #3 guy, I will be pulling for him because I bleed red and gold and I want nothing more than to see our team win.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was it a mistake to pickup Cassel? No
Was is a mistake giving him 60 million dollars? Maybe. He has to live up to that now and it’s going to be hard to do without having any offensive weaopons.
by jonnyu on Sep 23, 2009 10:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You still think there is a lack of weapons???
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhhhh. yeah, I don't.
Let’s see, we have Bowe… and… um. Who else? There is no other receivers on our roster that amount to anything more than possesion guys and even still, there not that reliable to make the catch everytime. We have some talented running backs but there’s no way our runblocking is strong enough to take the pressure off of Matt from having to throw the ball more than he does.
I’m not saying that he can get the job done with the guys we have now, it’s just gonna be a lot harder. We don’t have a solid TE and we were throwing to the TE a lot last Sunday which proved to be a dumb move. We still don’t have a downfield threat that can get behind the coverage. Lawrence might play some more according to the new depth chart so let’s hope he can take on that role.
by jonnyu on Sep 23, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree with you on some points...especially the TE position.
But the WR group is MUCH better than any we have had in recent memory. Wade played pretty well and I think Bradley is a pretty legit deep threat guy as long as Cassel gets enough time to throw the ball deep.
Also, I think our O-line has shown some pretty nice improvement as well. The team we are seeing right now is NOT the same team we will see around mid-season. I expect the run blocking to improve as the season progresses.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree about pass protection with the O-Line
it has been solid for both reg. season games though not great. I still think the run blocking is god awful. We were able to create a few holes against the Raiders but we CANNOT get any sort of push whatsoever. Our linemen are being pushed back most of the time and that’s just not gonna cut it.
Wade is a nice addition and will be a good slot reciever but we still need a number two and a TE that we can rely on to make tough catches. Whoever 85 is (o’connel?) shouldn’t even be allowed to step on the practice field after what happened last sunday.
by jonnyu on Sep 23, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the O-Line got significantly better push in Game 2.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Sep 23, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ther definitely is
The thing that still hurts is the lack of a second deep threat receiver. You will see a lot of games like Oakland, where Cassel (or whoever is at QB) is only going to air it out maybe 3 times a game, because they are going to double team Bowe all game long.
In fact, the TD pass to Bowe was only attempted because Asomugha was sucking wing on the sidelines on that play, and Cassel took advantage. You need another receiver like Bowe to really open up this offense.
by jcru on Sep 23, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lack of OL on right side, maybe?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Sep 23, 2009 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just read the Whitlock article lnked to this story
He made some good points, but WTF? Just yesterday he was hounding Haley in the KC Star. Today he says he feels for him. Dude needs to make up his mind.
About the Chiefs: I'd rather be a realist than a pessimist
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 23, 2009 10:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jason calls it like he sees it, that's why I like the guy
agree or disagree, Jason speaks his mind, and that’s what HE gets paid for
so basically he’s saying wow, here’s a side of Haley he hadn’t seen before, and he says he respects the guy for it (and if Cassel flops the next few games, and Haley then brings in Croyle or NewKidOffTheStreet, I’ll respect him for that, too)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
by upamtn on Sep 23, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whitlock probably woke up next to a severed horse head after writing the first article
Nice move, Pioli! haha
by jonnyu on Sep 23, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
I like Cassel and I like the direction this team is going. Ive said it before and Ill say it again, I think I may be in the minority here but I think the Chiefs are a MUCH better team this year. As a fan, one of the most important things for me is to be in the game until the end. Under Herm, that did not always happen. This year, we’ve been leading in the 4th quarter two times. Once the team and coaches mesh, those things will change. Im excited about Haley and Cassel at this point. I see a lot of effort and pride in this team. I did not see that under Herm.
A new GM, a new coach, a new year. A new sense of hope and pride.
by CBaller13 on Sep 23, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't do it
If Haley even attempts to start Croyle over Cassel I’ll storm Arrowhead with a torch and a pitchfork.
I’ve seen enough of Croyle to know that he is not and will not be our guy. He lacks the ability to be a leader. He lacks the ability to score. Don’t bring up the BAL game, cause one TD was a gift from DJ. He couldn’t get it in the end zone when it counted, and Cassel did. Cassel put us in the lead against OAK with 2:30 left in the game. Croyle has shown through his WHOLE CAREER that he can’t stay healthy. His knee has been rebuilt twice. I’m dead serious. I never want to see Croyle starting over a healthy Cassel. Haley better not screw around on this.
About the Chiefs: I'd rather be a realist than a pessimist
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 23, 2009 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I almost didn't get into this thread, because the post said something nice about Shitlock,
whom I’m boycotting.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Sep 23, 2009 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I still dont get it
he looked great, just was a tad rusty on timing
shocking that this comes up every day…..when he proves people wrong itll be a great day…1 game and people are taking Haley dodging questions as Cassel is in trouble
by SDChief on Sep 23, 2009 10:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But we didn't just get Cassel
trading a second for Cassel allowed us to take Jackson in the 1st round. If Cassel can pull his weight, that gives us starting-caliber players at two important positions. Had we drafted Sanchez, we would have to hope Magee develops into a great DE (not that Jackson has proven to be “great” yet). I still agree with the move. However, I would have maybe waited until midseason to sign Cassel to a huge, long-term contract (though the contracts being renegotiated for other QBs may have driven up the price considerably if we wanted to sign him later).
by Chiefs4Life on Sep 23, 2009 11:06 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I said it at the time and I'll say it again
The mistake wasn’t the trade. That was GREAT! The mistake was giving him a 6 year contract for 60 mil without proving anything with the Chiefs. Pioli has improved the team for sure, but he’s made mistakes along the way
I don't want no Yo-Yos
by AK_47 on Sep 23, 2009 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's just the way the business is
Stafford and Sanchez are getting way more and have proved far less than Cassel.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Sep 23, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KC was paying him half that money anyway
(the guaranteed portion anyway) due to his franchised status. As kabrink says, that’s just how it is in the NFL these days. Jake Delhomme got a $40m+ contract at the end of last season & he’s been awful a lot of the time. Eli Manning got a $100m contract & you could argue that he’s not even one of the top ten QBs in the NFL. Beside that, next year will probably be uncapped…you don’t think Cassel would be commanding an even bigger contract in this off-season? Even if he plays below average this year (& he won’t) he’d still get huge offers based on how bad KC is perceived to be & how well he did with NE.
by jmcgoblue on Sep 23, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me a break!
That is a drop in the bucket for Tier 1 and 2 QB’s in the NFL. Cassel will be right behind Rivers and others over the next few years in performance. Smart of Pioli to pay him $60 M before an uncapped year and the Manning contracts. NO MISTAKE BU PIOLI!
by casselreadychiefs on Sep 23, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel has proven himself capable, Sanchez hasn't
It’s funny how few people seem to recall that after the first two games of the 1998 season, the Rookie season of Leaf and Manning, lot’s of commentators were berating Indy for taking Manning over Leaf. Leaf was 2-0 and had a higher QB ratiing than Manning. Then Leaf came to KC (after making a comment that the crowd wouldn’t matter) and got destroyed. He had 3 fumbles and went 1 for 15 in passing. That was pretty much it for Leaf. Of course, Peyton Manning never panned out either. /sarcasm.
A QB who plays for a season successfully in the NFL can generally make it. There are a couple of exceptions (like Rick Mirer who was looking good until Erickson became his coach). It’s still too early to say if Sanchez can really make it in this league, but Cassel has shown he can compete at this level. Sanchez may end up being great, but I still think that trading for Cassel was the smart move since there was a lot less risk involved. KC can’t afford to keep whiffing on 1st and 2nd round picks with the frequency we have over the past few years. And there aren’t many risks bigger than a first round QB.
by Big Chief on Sep 23, 2009 11:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even though this is a whole new regime
I remain very skeptical or superstitious about the Chiefs drafting QBs. They have NEVER done a good job of this whether in early or later rounds. Granted that was Steadman and Peterson. But, the record is there and the risk is there.
Air Cassel - approved for takeoff
by kabrink on Sep 23, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good trade..
The only argument I could see being made about the No. 3 pick is that we maybe didn’t pick the right defensive player… Raji and Curry both have a lot of talent, but so far, Jackson has about the same production as Curry and Raji has been injured… and pass rushing was a huge need. I agree with the pick, personally.
I think it’s interesting to note that the jets have perhaps the most talented offensive line in football and the chiefs have one of the worst. Cassel was off on a couple of throws, had a couple of drops, but still looked very good despite a spotty performance by the o-line. They weren’t terrible (other than those drive-killing penalties), but they sure weren’t great. Cassel didn’t get rattled. I also liked that he had no problem speaking up when they were slow to get plays in. He seems like a true leader.
Sanchez is a good piece for the Jets – they already had a stong offensive line, a good defense, and a good running game. All they needed was a guy who could make accurate throws and not make too many mistakes. That’s great. I’ll be interested to see what happens if and when another team can get pressure on him.
It is interesting to note, by the way, that Brady has not looked so good and has been hit kind of a lot these first two weeks. Maybe those sacks Cassel took last year had less to do with him and more to do with an declining offensive line.
by u2nspenserfan on Sep 23, 2009 11:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think we're ok
Cassell is the best QB—enough said.
by Ren on Sep 23, 2009 11:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bottom line... people are nuts.
Someone called in to 610 this morning saying Brodie had some sort of greatness factor going for him.
WHAT?!?
by 3GChief on Sep 23, 2009 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You'd never hear such nonsense on 810. lol
About the Chiefs: I'd rather be a realist than a pessimist
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 23, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagreed with the big contract
I mean yeah, sure, we might be saving money in the long run if Cassel turns out to be amazing this year. But if he is just average, as is probably expected his first year with this O-line and WR group, we would have been better off paying him the 14 mil this year and locking him up for a cheaper contract. There was no harm in waiting. Heck, they could have waited halfway through the season, see how he did, and THEN signed him to $60 mil. I didn’t understand the benefit in signing him so early.
by Vince D on Sep 23, 2009 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Its a game of poker
If we did not sign Cassel before the season here are the three possible outcomes;
1) Cassel struggles his first year;
Was it him or the young and very inexperienced team around him? Was it the O-line? Nobody would be able to put a finger on why he struggled considering he played well in New England. Either the Chiefs go ahead and sign him or they let him go to another team, if they sign him, its still probably 40+ million. If they let him go and draft Tebow/McCoy/Bradford its still 60+ Mill and another year or two added on to the rebuilding time frame.
2) Cassel plays so-so;
Same questions apply as #1. Would he have done well with a more experienced team? Contract = 50+ Mill
3) Cassel is a Rockstar;
On a inexperienced team to boot !!! Sounds like 80+ Mill.
Scott Pioli had the right “pot-odds” so he made the call, its as simple as that.
Dauntlessly Matriculating
by SoCalChief on Sep 23, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice illustration
About the Chiefs: I'd rather be a realist than a pessimist
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 23, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOT SO FAST JON!
Remember what else we got with the Cassel trade? Vrable – who IMHO is kickin some serious butt and is showing our young LB core how to play. The other thing to consider is that we’re only 2 games into the season. Who knows how both Cassel and Sanchez will end up after 14 more games! Even today I think it was a good trade!
by DieHardKC63 on Sep 23, 2009 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cassel’s first reg. season game for the Chiefs. Lets give this guy a chance. We’ll see what this guy is all about after the next 4 games.
by chiefs_fan05 on Sep 23, 2009 12:30 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Don't Forget In Regards to the Cassell Deal
Next year is an un-capped year so some of these salaries could get way out of hand. I believe part of the reasons Haley and Pioli are playing musical players in-season is because they really need to know who to lock up long term before the uncapped year in 2010.
by Ryan in Nixa on Sep 23, 2009 12:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets give Cassel some time.
“If I’d have listened to the Philadelphia Eagle fans, with the Ron Jaworski situation, we’d never have gone to the Super Bowl,” Vermeil said. "We’d never have gone to the playoffs the second year Ron was there. They booed his rear end right out of the stadium.
“Every year prior to me, the coaches, I think, had listened to the media and listened to the fans and listened to everybody else and kept rotating quarterbacks and never won. I just don’t do that.”
As the 3-7 Chiefs face the Eagles on Thursday night at Arrowhead Stadium, Green is the AFC’s lowest-rated passer. Green played one of his better games Sunday against Seattle, going without an interception for only the second time this season.
From KC Star Nov 8, 2001
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Sep 23, 2009 12:47 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
The instant information age has...
…overblown our already epic need for instant gratification. That just doesn’t happen in the NFL, especially with quarterbacks. Cassel will be great, just give it time.
by GonzosDirtyTrailer on Sep 23, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no but..
it was a mistake to PAY HIM A NEW CONTRACT before he stepped on the field!
Now we’re stuck. Had he came out this year and sucked it up, and be a free agent next year, then so be it.
by davidhusker on Sep 23, 2009 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What would you have done?
SoCalChief outlined it pretty well above. It’s always a risk when you give a player a contract.
by jmcgoblue on Sep 23, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
really so cassel and vrabel for a second
is a bad trade. So Cassel threw two picks one was a bad throw the other was Huff making agood play. Vrabel is always on the field making plays or is around the ball. so a second for matt cassel and mike vrabel.isn’t that bad of deal. So lets let cassel play threwthis year and hope he gets better games ahead of him.
by Shutters on Sep 23, 2009 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
2 mistakes
1.Playing Cassel in week 4 of the preseason..did they really need to see more out of him?
2.Waiting to get the O-line pieces in place..It takes time to gell.
by idahochieffan on Sep 23, 2009 1:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dirty Sanchez
His stats aren’t overly impressive. He just landed on a team that plays good defense and has a solid O-line. He has a lot of talent around him… Cassel doesn’t.
by golfbard on Sep 23, 2009 2:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cassel Is the Man..
And all of these ignorant clowns that are clammoring for Brodie Croyle or suggesting a quarterback controversy need to stop. For the first time in my life as a Chiefs fan, I felt like we had a big league quarterback. He’s got heart, he’s got an arm, he’s accurate, and he simply wants to win and you can see that in his face. So what if he threw two picks… Huff made a diving grab on one and the other was overthrown… It was his first game back in three weeks, and he still made plays, he just doesn’t have a playmaker to throw the ball to, but over this season, it appears that he and his WRs will get on the same page and continue to improve.
I would’ve loved for KC to come away with that win, and they should’ve, but Cassel is the least of our problems. This team just needs a win, and I bet they get that win against Philly on Sunday and Cassel has a huge day.
by FredThreezy on Sep 23, 2009 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if Cassel
never turns into anything more than an average QB, There isn’t much more you could have done with that second round pick than cassel and vrable I wasn’t super excited about the trade at the time because I saw a guy in croyle who had a similar skill set that we’re already paying, and a ton of cap room, cap room that for whatever reason we weren’t able to use.
by callmesir on Sep 23, 2009 3:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The reason we were unable to use that cap money...
was because the big name guys didn’t want to play in KC. probably because of the lack of a franchise QB. If players had seen all the moves this team was making, they probably would have been more willing to consider the Chiefs a viable option.
Once we start winning some games and making some noise, the bigger free agents will want to come here because they will see that we are poised to do something great. At that point, we will probably know more clearly our positions of need and will be able to focus on filling those holes and start adding some quality depth.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 23, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Around The Horn
is discussing our QB controversy! Hilarious, but it is getting us a little national attention!
:)
by ttownmikey on Sep 23, 2009 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
TIME TO BLOW UP THE EAGLES!
This is the only news on the Chiefs anywhere. Cassel is as safe as Haley for this year. I believe Cassel will go down as the top 3 best QB’s in KC history.
by casselreadychiefs on Sep 23, 2009 6:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
First off I LIke both Qb’s, but here’s my take on it. With Cassel you get a guy who the Gm knows and has been around. work ethic, talent ect. A guy that has had an oppertunity to sit and learn from one of the best.
With Sanchez you get a ton of talent but a ton of unknowns to go with it. Its easy to say we should’ve drafted him, but had he not started out on fire, it would’ve been just as easy to we dodged a bullit.
I hope both Qb’s find success with there teams, but as a chiefs fan I think they made the right choice
by lett on Sep 23, 2009 6:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

by 





















