Chiefs RB Charles on Being Inactive: 'I still don't even know'
by Joel Thorman on Sep 22, 2009 12:01 PM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
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PrintOne of the biggest surprises in the hours prior to the Kansas City Chiefs loss to the Oakland Raiders was the coaches decision to place running back Jamaal Charles on the inactive list. Charles struggled against the Baltimore Ravens in week one, but what Chiefs running back didn't?
According to Charles, he's still not sure why he was inactive. He later told reporters that the coaches haven't told him why he didn't play against Oakland.
In a replacement role, Dantrell Savage rushed the ball three times for 26 yards and caught six passes for 43 yards. Those aren't bad numbers - Savage was generally a positive throughout, save the end of the first half miscue that cost the Chiefs a field goal.
Charles was also bumped in favor of Savage, who was previously fourth on the depth chart.
Best guess on Charles? His fumbling problems which have creeped up frequently in his career (and presumably during practiec) have grabbed the ire of Todd Haley.
When I think of Charles being demoted on the depth chart, I think of his exchange that was captured on an NFL Network video:
Haley: Did you fumble yesterday?
Charles: Yeah.
Haley: What, he just slapped it.
Charles: That was my fault. I didn't cover the ball enough.
Haley: You better take care of my football. Or you can not play.
Savage is more reliable in regards to fumbling, as Adam Teicher of the Kansas City Star pointed out yesterday, but he doesn't have the big play capability that Charles does. With an offense that hasn't capably demonstrated an ability to consistently move the ball down the field on multi-play drives, why would you take a homerun threat out of the lineup?
I understand the need to make a point, and maybe that's not even what this is about, but in my estimation the Chiefs are a less talented team with Charles off the field.
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Has anyone seen any big plays from Charles?
I haven’t. I’ve seen some bad plays, but no big plays.
Savage had some good runs and I feel like there is more big play capability than when Charles gets the ball. He had a big run in preseason and a nice 11 yard run on Sunday.
Does Savage have more potential than Charles? No. But at some point that just doesn’t matter.
Pollard anyone?
Haley dont mess around!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 22, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
But Youtube says...
in college he ran back after an interception and walloped the defensive guy who had the ball…that’s big play…
I still like Jamal, but the fumbling problem is very gut wrenching…
I remember all the big plays he made against my Huskers pourous Callahan defense. Still makes me sick.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I agree dude.
I’d rather have Dantrell’s numbers with no fumbles than a guy who fumbles once in 3 times he carries the ball. That screams mistakes, and the last thing we need is more of them.
A lot of people were raving in pre season that he was one of the most impressive Chiefs of the pre season...
I never saw it. The stats didn’t reflect it. Savage must be looking better during practice.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Sep 22, 2009 12:12 PM CDT reply actions
Just like Bradley
Its all about how you prepare during the week with Hailey! If you dont show you want to study then you wont play… We have seen this with many players!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 22, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree.
Savage is not a talented as Charles but he IS more competent. Charles needs to start living up to his talent ON the field and quit screwing up. When he does that, our team will be MUCH better offensively.
Huh??
Those aren’t bad numbers – Savage was generally a positive throughout, save the end of the first half miscue that cost the Chiefs a field goal.
How can the end of the half be on Savage? That was all on Cassel.
Predictions for 2009:
LJ runs for 1800 yards
Bowe in the pro bowl
Chiefs D finishes in the top 10 in points allowed
Chiefs 10-6
I actually think that was on Haley but...
even so, Matt C. should have been aware enough to realize that that pass either had to be a TD in the endzone or an incomplete pass so we could get our FG team on the field.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 22, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Not on Haley.
Sure, he called the play, but the QB has options on every play. If he called a post pattern to Bowe, you don’t throw it if he is triple covered. You go to another option. Same on this play. It would have been fine if Savage was left uncovered and could have scored or gotten out of bounds. He should have thrown it away and I think he knew that.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
Bingo. You're exactly right.
Cassel should know by now that with 14 seconds left its in the end zone or you throw it out. His mistakes were..
1. Threw an out with 14 seconds.
2. Threw it too inside the sideline.
3. Threw it to the side that the best corner in the league is working in.
Dumb dumb dumb. I about died when Beisel F’d that punt up. I thought colquitt was going to boot his ass down the field.
The only thing Savage did wrong was catch a pass that should, under no circumstances, have ever been thrown to him.
He tried to get out of bounds….really Cassel just can’t trow the ball to him there. IMO Savage, or anyone for that matter, shouldn’t be running routes in the middle of the field in that situation.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Sep 22, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Haley should be demoted for 2nd string HC after that blunder.
Give him the ole Bowe treatment.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Sep 22, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Video
I just watched the Video of that play… We had 4 WR’s in the EndZone when Cassel threw the ball to Savage. He caught it 3 yards from out of bounds… Oaklnad had 5 DB’s and 2 LB’s on the coverage.
Just a ? how was that Haley’s fault that Cassel threw to the only guy you should throw to to stop the clock?
by flyin_squirl on Sep 22, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I hadn't seen the replay.
I didn’t realize there were that many receivers in the end zone. that one defeinitely should fall on Cassel if thats the case
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 22, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Progression
On that play you could see Cassel look at the Wade and Ryan on the right side. He really didnt even look at Engram and Bowe on the play he went straight to Savage. Cassel also had plenty of time left in the pocket to let a play develope.
by flyin_squirl on Sep 22, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I was wide open the the stands close by...
he could have hit me…i was wide open and it would have stoped the clock. If i remember right this was pretty much right after a time out. Haley has to make sure Cassell knows the situation, and make sure he doesn’t do what he did…afterall he is the HC QC and OC.
Don't Fuccop Succop
by chicks_love_chiefs on Sep 22, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
i am pretty sure cassel knew what to do
and that haley reminded him. He just had a brain fart and thought Savage was closer to the sideline than he was. That play is squarely on cassel….he won’t make that mistake again though…i am pretty sure of that
I seen almost the same play from Miami last night
The difference was the back knew he needed out of bounds and carried the defender to the side lines with him.
Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!
by bringbacktheglory on Sep 22, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I tend to agree with you but we just don't know the inside facts. We just need to
trust the coaches and I’m sure acceptable to that.
Yeah, 'cause that what we're best at.
We all just trust the coaches! And we have nothing but good, supportive things to say about them on this blog.
I like Coach Haley's method...
prove to me that you belong on an NFL team then prove to me you belong on the field.
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
Do you think they get any support?
Maybe I’m too soft, but they still have to be trained, right? They still have things to learn and ways to improve, right? That’s why these teams still have “coaches” and not simply evaluators, right?
What upsets me is that Charles doesn’t know why he was pulled. I understand that maybe he doesn’t know because he doesn’t agree or didn’t understand, but I also have a sense of the “cone of silence” that the Haley-Pioli regime employs in any given situation, and I’m pretty sure that should not extend to the players they are supposed to be creating a team out of, right?
Charles really doesn't know why?
I do not buy that and I do not buy that they, the coaches, do not work to improve the players.
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Sep 22, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking as a teacher, ...
… you can tell students a MILLION times to do or not do something. You can get mad about it when they STILL mess it up, or, you can simply let them know in their GUT that they messed up by giving them a poor grade. There are a LOT of people who insist on getting things wrong, and at some point, they need to actually FAIL, before they suddenly realize that a LOT of stuff is entirely on THEM. It’s one of the hardest things to get out of today’s students, who just want to quickly go through a minimum amount of effort, with lots of hand-holding, thinking that’s how you learn things, when you LEARN things by sweatin’ blood on your OWN time, with NObody to tell you how special and wonderful you are.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Teacher to Teacher - AMEN
and while we’re at it, can we PLEASE do something to put a stop to Social Promotion?
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!
I wasnt worried about it...
It is the same thing he has done with Bowe and DJ…
Play right…or don’t play
Don't forget to be an AP-vangelist...Tell A Friend...
They (writers) keep referring to Charles as a "home run" threat.
Really? Sure, he’s got some speed, but so does Lawrence. Charles has had many opportunities to show something in games and has not produced. I only remember him falling down and fumbling with no defender in sight. Maybe he does that often.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
And Getting Caught
…and getting caught from behind last year…oh but he had on to many cloths.
Jerome
the bottom line
is that he fumbles too much so start taking care of the rock.
I agree with the writing above
lets face it, this is a team that lacks big plays
Lawrence can bring a big play, but….thats down the line
when charles is in, he can take a draw on 3rd and 12, and get 15 before the D can react…hes our most explosive player, he just fumbles like Leroy Hoard.
This team has shown that it can make some big plays.
That’s not the problem. The problem is a single breakdown by a single player, with 10 players getting it right. When you’re struggling to get the team to GEL, you can’t afford a player with up-side who’s likely to kill drives with turnovers.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I think you're seeing a long term plan from Haley...
Look, we all know our team is not the most talented in the NFL. We also know that the management isn’t blind to this (see Pioli’s comments that he can’t promise when we’ll start winning, but he can promise they’ll be no one who works harder until we do. In other words – he’ll be scouring the rest of the NFL and college prospects to find the talent needed).
So, essentially, Haley has a free pass this year. (Don’t get me wrong…if the worst case scenario occurs and we go winless, I think there’ll be some heads rolling). I think Haley knows this – probably because he was given a promise from Pioli upon hiring that he would be given ‘X’ amount of years to build this team. Haley has commented about the culture that was in place when he arrived, and his actions have shown that changing the culture is one of his top priorities (i.e. the conditioning program during training camp).
When you take all this into consideration – I think Haley has determined, that he’s willing to punish players this year, even when it may hurt the team, to set a ‘no-tolerance’ policy for the franchise. In other words – and in Charles’ case – you fumble…you sit. I think we’ll be seeing this all year long.
That being said – I don’t like that Charles wasn’t told why he was held out of the game. I think it’s a bit overboard to pull the whole – sit there, think about it, and tell me why you think I punished you. These guys aren’t kids. But….I’m not an NFL coach – so what the hell do i know?
P.S. I live in San Diego, born and raised in L.A….no connection to Kansas City except for my love of the Chiefs. October 4th – Chiefs vs. Giants – my dream will come true…I’m flying out to K.C. to see a game at Arrowhead Stadium! Yeah – I’m a little excited.
by camucr on Sep 22, 2009 12:33 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
If Charles cannot figure it out
then he obviously doesn’t see the problem and as such that problem will not get corrected.
This is not some subtle nuance we are talking about here
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Sep 22, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
well said, camucr, wrecked
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Have fun.
It’s everything you are expecting.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
Hah
He might be one of the 50,000 people in KC that get to watch the game. God I hope there won’t be any blackouts.
About the Chiefs: I'd rather be a realist than a pessimist
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 22, 2009 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
It's why women get pissed at us men.
I don’t like that Charles wasn’t told why he was held out of the game. I think it’s a bit overboard to pull the whole – sit there, think about it, and tell me why you think I punished you. These guys aren’t kids. But….I’m not an NFL coach – so what the hell do i know?
If I have to tell you, then you don’t get it. We can speculate here, no problem, as to the likely reason. If Charles has no idea (which I doubt), then he doesn’t “own” what he’s doing, yet. More likely, he’s not in any mood to share his inner thoughts (and doubts) with some reporter.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
How do you know there are inner thoughts to share
maybe just crickets and cobwebs
by Bestofthewest on Sep 22, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Deep down he knows why he was demoted.
If he doesn’t, it just shows that his head isn’t where it needs to be. Once he admits to himself that he needs to improve, he can figure out how to get there.
Seems like everyone on AP
knows why Charles was inactive, so how can he not know! You either deserve to be playing or you don’t. I don’t imagine that he was running with the 2nds in practice all week & then all of a sudden on Sunday morning he read that he was inactive!
Seems like that's exaclty how this could happen!
The bosses there at Arrowhead have no problem shuffling that roster at any moment!
Charles IS a homerun threat.
Unfortunately, fumbles are likely to amount to homerun plays for the other team.
Cantaloupe? More like wontaloupe. Lazy ass melons.
You need talent to win football games
Whether it be Bowe, Pollard, Charles, DJ or whomever, if they are not producing COACH THEM, don’t bench them.
This team will not turn into a winner by cutting, sitting or demoting the most talented players. I don’t like giving Haley a “free pass”, he can just use the excuse that the team didn’t perform because his best players wern’t the best players.
We are already so thin at talent based on our rediculously low salary cap number. Now we are benching/cutting/demoting our most talented players on a team already void of talent? Yeeesh, no wonder we have no chance in competing.
RIP Bodhi - Not tragic to die doing what you love. You want the ultimate thrill, you gotta be willing to pay the ultimate price.
by craig in calgary on Sep 22, 2009 1:02 PM CDT reply actions
What has Charles ever done
other than “be talented?”
He has to show it on the field. I think that is the point Haley is trying to make. He hasn’t cut him yet.
Savage played well. Looks like a good move to me.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Sep 22, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Just to argue with you a little......
….maybe this team has forgotten how to compete, at least at a high level. if you make everyone feel like they have to perform to keep there job then that has to translate on the field in the way of competion. I don’t think feeling uncomfortable is always a bad thing.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
You can't coach someone
to stop fumbling the football. So far, by his own mouth in interviews, Charles’s reaction to the fumbling problem has been “aw, shucks”
I’m not military like callmesir, but there is a relevant saying in the military that goes something like “it only takes one f@ck up to erase a thousand atta boys.”
The fumbling isn’t something to take lightly. It’s a turnover, and it only took two turnovers to sink this team last sunday.
Good work Cheez you're qick on the draw, just beat me to the post...
…..Tiki was a fumble factory until Coughlin taught him to hold that ball up by his chin. Looked kinda funny but was highly effective. After that Tiki RARELY fumbled.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I love how my name creeps up
anytime anything anti-haley pops up now… oh well, I disagree that you can’t coach someone to stop fumbling. I don’t know exactly how that happens, but , it does happen, A guy like tony alford is a great example of that. He’s a subperb running back coach that has been able to basically eliminate fumbles every where he’s been.
In this case though, I actually support this idea, even though the chiefs aren’t the most talented football team in the world, the dropoff from team to team isn’t THAT big, so tere might be some games we could pull out if we play mistake free football and smeone else brings their B game. Turnovers will kill a team regardless of how talented they are. You inactivate a guy, tell him to work with a particular coach, Don’t focus on that weeks game plan, or hitting a particular hole, Focus on holding on to the ball, so I think it’s a good motivational tool, if you’re using it to get some retraining done.
When your name
was brought up in this case: I don’t believe that it was in reference to Haley but rather to reference that you had mentioned being in the military & making some posts as to how things were done in the military. :)
I disagree with most of the things you say generally so I'm gonna throw this out there...
I agree 100% with what you say here and that is exactly how I feel about the situation as well. Make him see he needs to be better and he can rejoin the team a few weeks down the road.
Dbowe learned to catch the ball didn’t he? See that catch last week? Last season I guarantee thats a drop. Obviously this is motivational although I really think Savage deserves a legit shot at time.
accountability and consequences
it seems that Coach Haley’s fluid depth chart has turned some players around and brought improvement in their play
"There are few secrets in football. So execute." ~Coach Stram
"I think it's the fans. The place is crazy. It's a good crazy, if you're Kansas City." ~Coach Schottenheimer
by Bad Medicine on Sep 22, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Although
Bowe and DJ have definetly improved since their demotions and Pollard has yet to sign with another team. Even when Pollard does sign, I bet that his “talent” won’t land him a starting gig.
by Fourstrike89 on Sep 22, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Craig...
It’s a matter of applying pressure to these guys. haley wants to find out what these guys are made of. When he puts pressure on them to perform to his (and our) expectations, they are either going to step up and show the improvement or, they are going to crawl into a shell and ride the pine for the rest of the season. If they do that, they don’t need to be on this team.
if they step up and play up to their potential it will show that they not only have the passion to be the best but they also show that they are worthy of playing in this league and will have bright futures as KC Chiefs.
This is the best thing for Charles at this point. It is exactly what he needs and his career will benefit from it in the long run.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 22, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
We're used to Yo-Yo players with talent.
Talent isn’t the issue, here. Just a LITTLE more consistency in key situations, and the Chiefs win BIG against Chokeland.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Apples and oranges
This is an ongoing problem. Tiki Barber worked hard to solve that problem.
So did Curtis Martin. Most people don’t remember he was a fumble machine his rookie year. Bill Parcells handled the probably the same exact way Haley is now…he benched him, and that was his starting running back.
You just argued against your first point....
….You can teach someone how to not fumble. It’s his fundementals that are breaking down, he holds the ball out too far or he just doesn’t grip it tight enough or he gets going and forgets that he needs to bring the ball with him. You can either teach/work with him on how to hold on or you can bench him till he figures it out.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Maybe Charles means he doesn't know why he fumbles so much?
I’m just trying to make some sense of his not knowing why. Heres a thought JChar, why don’t you go ASK??? “Hey coach how come I’m like 8th string now?” Weird concept I know.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
I wonder whether he's given an audience?
I wonder if he’s worried about being told to eff off like brian waters was when he wanted to meet with the coach?
No. And let's not go down that tired road again, just yet, callmesir.
Haley is willing to speak with players after practice. It’s not like being granted an audience with an exalted king. But Haley HAS made it clear that he’s not interested in special cases or hand-holding when he has 52+ other guys to keep rolling in practice.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Yeah
And Haley would turn red, have veins pop out of his neck and scream “BECAUSE YOU HAVE BUTTER FINGERS!!!”
Oh man. I’d pay to see that.
About the Chiefs: I'd rather be a realist than a pessimist
by Red N Gold Beast on Sep 22, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Why?
Why is it that our recievers are always covered, hardly any seperation. On the other hand, teams like the Colts always have wide open recievers. Like Reggie Wayne everybody knows the pass is going to him, and more times than not, hes wide open.
It drives me crazy!
Payton Manning is one of the best ever at making adjustments at the line....
….he a huge reason those recievers are so successful. Not taking anything away from Wayne but when you put Manning with a good WR, it elevates that WR to stardom and makes average WRs look above average.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
+1
I agree Big red. Manning is the master of the pre-snap read. he knows what the defense is going to do before the ball is snapped.
Also, their receivers run better routes. our guys will get there but, it will take time.
Manning made a change at the line last night that was brilliant....
…..faced with a monster blitz by the Phins he audibled out of the original play and into a WR screen that was taken to the house. That is how those WR get open, the D cannot adjust when Manning adjusts, at that point it becomes a mismatch.
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
That was still a good blitz.
Manning’s also blessed by a surrounding group of players who EXECUTE. No excuses. No blown protections. Tight window, he makes the throw and the receiver catches it. The big yards after could just as easily have been for little or no gain. Once he got the first couple steps, though, the blockers were in place and the D had no chance.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
their OL
it was amazing how quick their C and RG got into space on that play
Saturday was waiting for the WR by the time he got to the 10yd line
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Savage more talented
I agree with the first comment,lucasjr5,and chicks love chiefs——-and I think that Savage is more talented—-just smaller-so as a result Charles has more potential but many, many players have unrealized potential. Could Charles do that spin move of Savages? I’ll bet he’d fall on his face.
Savage is better
73 yard run means he is not capable of making big play HUH! Savage is the man! Charles/Battle is the question will Charles block on ST or is he done?
agreed
he’s not CUT
he was just inactive for ONE game!!!!!
The Chiefs have one too many RB… it’s going to happen.
people are overreacting, as usual
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
Done?
Charles may not be done—-who knows for sure—but Savage is definately talented.
think about it.. why wouldn't they let him know?
it’s because there’s an impending roster move!!!!!!
I’m now convinced that Charles was inactive because they are trying to decide whether to cut Savage or Battle.
They also had Cottam inactive in order to get O’Connell a good look, because they are considering bringing in a TE.
Just my gut feeling at this point… I kinda hope I’m right… It’s exciting to see this team pushing to get better all the time!!!
* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season
I hope they bring in a TE...
O’Connell looked bad. Maybe its just me but he just didn’t look athletic, often looked out of place, didn’t see too many blocks from him either. I know it takes a trained eye to see blocks behind the scenes so someone correct me if I’m wrong, cause all I saw from O’Connell was drops and… well thats about it I guess. He did nothing for me.
Cottam isn’t much better, so far Sean Ryan was the only guy who made any type of impact and that isn’t going to do it for the long run. Get another TE who is either an established blocker or a big surehanded target for the QB, preferably both.
I agree I think this is about roster moves in the coming weeks. Smith, Savage, Battle, Cottam, O'Connell.
Its also a message to Charles..
by NFL season ticket holder on Sep 23, 2009 1:03 AM CDT reply actions
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