Tracking the Chiefs Problem Areas: Week 2 - The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same
by ChiefDJ on Sep 20, 2009 5:56 PM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Campaign
Email
PrintIt is an enigma of sorts that a team that has had as much change as the Kansas City Chiefs have over the last offseason - A new General Manager, new Head Coach, new offensive and defensive schemes, a huge overhaul of the roster - and come out with nearly identical results that we so often saw last season.
The new Chiefs are still beating themselves with penalties, questionable judgment by the QB and 4th quarter defensive collapses.
Unlike last weeks game versus the playoff contending Ravens, there were some bright spots in this game. At least, we think they're bright. After all we WERE playing one of the worst teams over the last six years...
Just as last week, let's look at how the Chiefs improved (or didn't) in comparison to our problems at the end of the season last year.
PROBLEM AREAS FROM 2008
- League worst NFL Pass Rush
- 30th ranked defense against the run
- 28th ranked defense against the pass
- Poor offensive line play, especially up the middle and on the right side
- Unsettled QB situation
- Inability to run the ball effectively
- Unsettled Kicker situation
- Lack of competent kickoff or punt returner
2009 performance (Week 2 vs. Raiders)
Pass Rush - The pass rush looked good at times, Derrick Johnson and Wallace Gilberry both registered sacks as well as both registering Quarterback Hurries. I think the Chiefs got screwed on the late hit penalty on Russell on the final drive. According to my eyes, he had fallen down of his own without a Chief forcing him down. When he was covered up, the Ref called it a late hit that move the Raiders down the field and gave them a chance to win.
Run Defense - I'm going to give the gold star of the day to the Chiefs Defensive Line. They played very well overall against a Raiders team with some outstanding running backs. Bush and McFadden were held to a combined 70 yards rushing and a 3.3 average yds per game. Tank Tyler continues to play well at NT with 7 tackles today. Dorsey had 4 tackles and a batted down pass and got some nice push on his side. Hopefully these guys continue to improve.
Pass Defense - This one is extremely difficult to judge because JaMarcus Russell is such a HORRIBLE QB. 40% completion last week, 29% this week. I was a little disturbed that several of Russell's errant passes over the middle appeared to be targeting wide open receivers. Would a better QB have had as much success this week as Flacco did last? Impossible to tell.
Offensive Line - Last week the Chiefs offensive line had very few penalties called against it but overall played poorly. This week they were gashing open running lanes and, overall at least, held a decent pocket together. But they stifled the Chiefs drives on several occasions with holding calls and false starts. Every lineman but Waters had a penalty called against them:
Albert - 1 Holding, 2 False Starts
Niwswanger - 1 Holding
Goff - 1 False Start
Ndukwe - 1 Ineligible Down Field
These penalties had alot to do with the offense stalling out of drives.
Quarterback Situation - Let me say it right now, I like Matt Cassel. I didn't sit and watch him for an entire game when he was with the Patriots last year except for his first game against the Chiefs when Brady was injured. I like Cassel's fire and charisma and I saw him make some good decisions. I do worry that he's going to get hurt scrambling sometime, especially while he still has that bum knee (that looked like it was bothering him occasionally to me.
He did make some big mistakes though. The two interceptions were very costly. The last play before half time, I don't know if he was told to throw it to a guy 5 yards away from the end zone or what, but that was a very poor decision. The pass should have either gone into the end zone for a TD or thrown out the back of it and take the Field Goal. You can't blame the receiver for not getting out of bounds when he was well covered. If Cassel made that pass on his own, shame on him. If it was an option in the play Haley called, then shame on Haley.
Rushing - Larry Johnson had some really nice runs today. His stats don't look real impressive at the end of the day, only 3.3 yds per carry, but he came up with the nice runs when we needed them. He and Savage also made some nice receptions. I do wonder if sometimes Haley simply forgot about running the ball. We were having success overall running, but it seemed that sometimes Haley would get into calling passing plays and all the sudden remember "Oh crap, I should be running the ball". I think if they had emphasized the run a little more than they did, some of these drives could have been extended.
Kicker - Didn't see much of Succop today.
Kick Returner - This is a tough one with the ridiculous punter and kicker the Raiders have. Savage never had an opportunity to take a kick out of the end zone. I did like Bobby Wade back there returning punts. He did have the one muff on a bad bounce, but I didn't find myself holding my breath every time he was back there to receive the punt. He had a respectable 9.5 yd return average. Not fancy, but better than what we've been getting. We'll keep an eye on Wade the rest of the season. I think Wade is a definite keeper as a WR as well.
196 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Same result but I think you can safely say that its just a matter of learning to win now.
Last year there was more then just the things mentioned in how we were losing. There were deficiencies in coaching, conditioning and talent. We lost today and it was inexcusable, these are the kind of games we have to win.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
Last year I never remember outgaining the opponent 2.5 to 1 and losing.
But yes a loss is still a loss.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 20, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
We saw
more improvement today between the start of camp and this game than we saw in three years with Herm Edwards.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:03 PM CDT reply actions
agonizing loss
But I feel pretty good about the direction things are heading. Just have to give it time to come together.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
things i saw that were good
Bowe …0 drops, nice td catch, and 1 hell of a block to keep Cassel from getting hit.
Tyler, getting great penetration and making tackles
Wade…what can i say he was big today
LJ…he ran like the LJ of old…pissed off
Run Defense was good againdt arguably one of the better rushing teams in the league
Bad…
penalties, penalties, penalties
stupid football plays on special teams and offense
our secondary looked pretty weak…no picks on russel
lack of pass rush in the 4th qtr
Yea all that is quite lovely
WE LOST THE DARN GAME.. who cares what was good or bad.. we can improve in 20 areas over one week.. if we lose, we lose and therefore we still stink.
Relax
This is what we do here. We will spend the rest of the week picking things apart. Everyone is miserable that we lost this game but it is important to try to see where the team is and is not making strides.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Sep 20, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude... I get that...
but we’re 0-2… I can’t go on strides because any strides we made last week (i.e. few penalties and no turnovers) and this week it went upside and the end result was still the same. Hard to look at the glass half full when you’ve won 6 of the last 34 games
sounds like
It may be time for you to be a Pittsburg or NE fan. They don’t have to take strides…they already know how to win. Here in KC we better look for what good we can find.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
well, not HERE it doesn't
we’d need an exceptional organization for that
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
as bad as the dolphins and falcons were a few years ago
they weren’t nearly as bad as us last year. the only reason we weren’t the worst team last year was because detroit has had that title for the 20 years. our organization was rotten to the core and needed to be gutted. i know we all secretly hoped that we could be the next dolphins, but the reality is we were a lot worse than even i thought. while i can’t prove it, i’d put my money down that if carl and herm were still here we would go 0-16 this year. i have no doubt this is going to be a painful season for us fans but there are still positives we can take form it. unless we make strides, there’s not a chance in hell we are going to win again.
Everyone on this board including myself
laughed at Denver’s miserable offseason.
Bottom line is.. they’re 2-0 and we’re 0-2 so who is laughing now… Parcells said it best – you are what your record is
umm we played the Raiders...
And one of those teams from the state of Ohio just went into Lambeau and won.
We'll see what their record is after...
New England, Indy, Pitt, Baltimore and all three divisional opponents 2 times each.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 20, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
And a Team went 9-7 last year
and made it to the Superbowl. Any team can win on any given day. We were far from perfect the last few weeks but the fact is that we were in both games going into the 4th Qtr. Sooner or later we are going to get it together and play a complete game.
l just threw up in my mouth
We play entire nfc east and sd next. How is 0-7 not a possibility? I’m sick of losing. Sick of it! I know we are youngest team in nfl and we are on right track but it’s hard to watch. Say something to make me feel better!
David Janssen
KC Chiefs Fan
by Mr J on Sep 20, 2009 6:22 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Say something to make me feel better!
I just saved a lot of money by switching to Geico.
by ChiefDJ on Sep 20, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Go buy a Steelers jersey
They seem to be able to win…If you can’t handle watching the Chiefs learn how to. It’s going to be ugly and painful. Get over it.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Its a possibility..
But so far this season I think we’ve found a way to stay in games. We played an elite team and had a chance late and we played a mediocre team(that almost beat SD) and shouldve killed them. Schedule isnt doing us any favors but one thing we know after two games is this team plays its ass off and that wont stop. We go into Philly where they have QB issues and no Westbrook, we have a game against Washington who didnt exactly look like world beaters today and we have Sandiego which we always play tight.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 20, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Ill tell you why...
because the Chiefs will upset one of these teams (NFC East)…and as far as the Chargers go, they beat Oakland by 4-we lost by 3, they lost to Balt by 4- we lost by 14( should have been by 7 or less) But we are pretty close to SD. They are not that good. Rivers gets going in the 4th quarter but if we put up at least a 2 td score above SDs then we can win. I say we will pull out a victory over the skins, SD, and the Cowboys
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Loss
I know we lost today but so many people are acting like we got our asses kicked!
If you dont win the turnover battle it is hard to win games… The ball just didnt bounce our way today. One punt hits your guy in the leg and rolls out of bounds, another one hits your guy then bounces right to another Raider… Sometimes it just doesnt work out. Bush gets stripped and the ball flies 3 feet into the air and lands right back in his hands.
One of our guys lets a punt roll right into the endzone! HOLY CRAP I wanted to break my TV after that one LOL. You also let the time run out at the end of the half…
Oh and we let 2 INT’s slip right through our hands… Them boys needed some STICKUM!!! Flowers was a pick 6 if he doesnt let it go off his shoulder pads…
Bad teams find ways to lose games
One thing we are going to have to accept is that right now, we are a bad team.
Throwing two interceptions is not a case of the ball not bouncing our way. 33% on 3rd down is not a case of the ball not bouncing our way. Nine penalties for 70 yards is not a case of the ball not bouncing our way. The defense collapsing on the final drive despite numerous offensive penalties on the Raiders side is not a case of the ball not bouncing our way.
These are things that bad teams do to beat themselves and its the reason the Chiefs have been so bad the last few years.
That doesn’t mean we’re always going to be a bad team. It doesn’t mean that by the end of the season we are going to be a bad team. It means that right now, we are a bad team and we are going to lose because we are a bad team.
What we CAN have hope for is that Pioli will continue to turn over every rock to find better players and we can HOPE that Haley knows how to turn those guys into good players.
But that HOPE does not change the fact that right now, we are just a bad team.
I think "Bad Team" is too broad a stroke.
We’re a team that isnt executing as we should yet. A team thats learning a 3 week old offense and a team with young talent thats getting experience. To just generalize them as a bad team I think is ignoring alot of things.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 20, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Bad Teams
You can look at it that way if you want but Bad Teams dont put up 409 yards and hold teams to 166 yards.
A Loss is still a loss but we looked a lot better on both sides of the ball compared to last week.
I want wins just as much as anyone but we all knew that we would be lucky to win 6 games this year!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
You can look at it that way if you want but Bad Teams dont put up 409 yards and hold teams to 166 yards.
No. Bad teams put up those numbers and then lose. That’s my point. Bad teams find ways to lose no matter how well they do.
Denver
Would you rather look like Denver did in week 1 and get a “Lucky” play and get a W? Does that make them a better team because they have a W?
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Flawed teams
is what I would say. That’s the improvement.
Last year when we couldn’t tackle, pass, run, block, execute, we were bad. Under Herm, we were bad. So far, we’re just flawed. We put ourselves in a position to win and hurt ourselves. It’s splitting hairs, and I don’t necessarily object to saying we’re bad.
We’re just so, SO much better than we’ve been the last three years.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It is splitting hairs
Because last year we were in position to win 7 or 8 games and failed at the end. Just like we have done the last two weeks.
Its a matter of perception in my eyes.
Are we better in some situations? Yeah I think so. Are we worse in others? Yeah probably so.
We're better in the ones I think we need to be.
We’re more prepared than we’ve been in years. The penalties? A year ago I would have expected Herm to say “well, those are unfortunate.”
I know Haley’s going to have those guys running sprints till their guts are turf fertilizer.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
and then we start hearing grumbles about
how Haley took their legs out from under them and they could not finish the game….again
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
Yeah but Haley has been doing that since he got here
And the penalties still happened.
I’m fine with a disciplinarian head coach as long as it actually has an effect on the team. Throwing interceptions and having that many penalties is a sign that the message isn’t getting through yet.
Doesn’t mean it won’t. Just hasn’t happened yet.
And yeah, as sm7600 said, we have yet to see if the “conditioning” Haley is so obsessed with will help or hurt us in the end.
I think its funny that people are so nuts about the team losing 800 lbs. But I still see a team that is losing in the 4th quarter.
Well did you see the Raiders dropping like flies in the 4th Q
Conditioning and attention to detail kept the Chiefs from cramping up.
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 20, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Injuries
How many injuries have we had in the 2 games… Conditioning isnt just about being able to play in the 4th quarter its about not pulling a hammy etc…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Another plus for the Chiefs
and we did score our touch down when Asoumgha was cramping on the sidelines
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 20, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
We haven't really
had that many injuries. What, Brandon out one game, Cassel out one game, Waters out, what, a possession?
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Is Charles hurt or learning a lesson?
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 20, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
No evidence that charles is hurt
and is that It? the third string running back?
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
we actually led for quite a bit of the fourth.
And there’s also the knowledge that if players don’t respond to that discipline, they’ll be released (and in Pollard’s case, sit around without anyone showing interest).
I think we all agree the best way to get focus and discipline is to install it as a philosophy, reinforced through habit. That’s what we know we’ll get. Rather than “Aw shucks, let me stare at the scoreboard and laugh some more.”
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Simple Question?
Did we look like a better team this week compared to last week?
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
We did...
another question…(non sarcastic)
Did the outcome of the game stay the same?
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
?
Are we making the playoffs? That is my point. We werent making the playoffs this year… If we are a better team at the end of the year that is what matters!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
So if we had won
and looked worse, would you be happy? Are we on our way to the SuperBowl?
I’m asking, not demanding, asking, politely, please try and have an argument other than “We lost, ergo, we suck. End of story.”
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
We are talking
about if this team is improving…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying that at all...
I’m saying somebody (Pioli and co) needs to figure out how to LOOK better and PLAY better….and also win.
Not on 2 seperate occasions.
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
But doesn't
playing better give you the best chance to win?
I guess the main question here is if you honestly believe that winning and playing well and losing and playing badly are inextractably linked.
The Patriots played like ass in week one. They won. THis week they lost to the Jets.
I tend to believe in things evening out over time.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
It does give you the best chance to win...
But we didn’t win today. And we play pretty well. The Pats only won because that guy decided to run the ball out and fumble on the kickoff.
If it does even out over time…then hopefully it evens out from now and till the end of the schedual (with the easier teams)
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
But if you put yourself in the best position to win
then you’ve done enough to not consider what you’re doing wrong. You just didn’t do it enough. That’s where I get to. We did what we needed to. We just didn’t do enough of it to overcome the two turnovers and the random, somewhat arbitrary penalties. We have to be able to overcome those things, and we weren’t able to. But considering how green these units are together, not a bad start.
It’s a marathon, not a sprint. I know we all wanted this game. But I’ll take losing this game and going 0-7 if we’re competitive with some of the best teams in the leauge over the next four weeks.
Again, if we’re still losing habitually next year, I’ll be right there with the criticism, just like I was with Herm.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
If this was pop warner--yes we need moral victories
but since this is a porfessional team who we spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year on—i’d like to see wins personally Id be fired if this happened in my job—-id expect the same out to these clowns
Like I said earlier
1 team wins the SB! If you dont want moral victories then the NFL has 31 LOSERS every year… Who cares if you are 0-16 or 16-0 if you dont win the big one…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
...
but don’t you need to win games in order to put yourself in the position to win the SuperBowl? I mean, realistically, what are you saying?
“This team is terrible. They did not win the Super Bowl which takes a combination of talent, lack of injuries, luck, scheduling, and roster management. So they are bad.”
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
no because we were dead even with a bad team
rather than playing a superbowl contender as we did last week
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
we have no way of knowing
if they’ll be a superbowl contender this year. They could be terrible. The raiders could be the wild card. WE don’t know anything yet, other than we need to keep working on the O-line and the pass rush.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I've got a fair idea that I'm right on both counts
I can be wrong…but I don’t think I am
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
Well clearly.
But then if you’d asked either you or I, “Will the Patriots be good this year?” we’d probably both say, “Oh, yeah, one of the best.”
And so far, they look terrible. Last year Baltimore was expected to finish very poorly. Same with the Dolphins.
We haven’t seen enough to make conclusions, I don’t think.
I also can’t walk away from that game today and think the Raiders are a better team.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
We did
We were also playing a perennial doormatt for the last six years rather than a legitimate playoff contender.
I honestly believe the Raiders have surpassed the Chiefs. Thats whats sad.
WOW
You really think that that team that just got a W against us is a better team? Really?
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Right now? Yeah
Even with Jamarcus Russell throwing for 29% completion they beat us.
How can you believe its any other way?
Because
the events surrounding their win were very unlikely.
Got multiple turnovers, only turned them into three points.
We had significantly more penalties, even though we were at home. Very unlikely.
We outgained them on offense and held them on defense, yet produced fewer points. Unlikely.
I’m not saying we did everything we needed to to win and it was just like, we obviously didn’t.
But in this instance, we really beat ourselves.
If you leave 10 men on base, that’s beating yourself. If you turn the ball over 10 more times than your opponent at basketball, you beat yourself.
The outcome of today’s game was dictated by our play, not theirs.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
And again we come full circle
Bad teams find ways to beat themselves.
The Chiefs had better stats. Still lost the game.
Hmmm
So a good team doesn’t beat itself?
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
PIT
You remember the SB champions… They lost today becuase they beat themselves!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Not as often as a bad team
See this is what I don’t get about your argument.
Without looking it up, I would guess we probably had 6 or 7 games where Tyler Thigpen had as good or better stats than Matt Casel did.
Yet I don’t think you would argue that the Chiefs were not a bad team last year.
But wasn't the argument against Thigpen
that he was never going to get us there?
It’s not just the stats. Cassel made four bad throws today. only one of them didn’t cost us significantly. Do you realize the odds on that? Eli throws about seven bad passes a game and often none of them cost them. Cassel also made an absolutely perfect touchdown throw to Bowe.
I’m not saying they’re not a bad team, I guess. I can concede that point. by all normal comparisons, we’re bad.
I jut feel very strongly that we won’t look taht way by December 31st.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Russell
He was worse last week and they almost beat the Chargers…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Um
13-10. There is no bonus for trying.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
Once again
pointing out the score provides no argument, no evidence, it’s just a regurgitation of a number comparison that doesn’t tell the whole story. It’s fine to believe the Raiders were the better team, but let’s try and actually make arguments in that pursuit rather than just “they scored more points so we suck and they are better.”
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Raiders being better is unlikely...like you said earlier, we beat ourselves.
They can PLAY better but not BE better….
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
What more evidence do you need other than the score?
It doesn’t matter if you have prettier uniforms, more rushing yards, a better coach. The best team finds a way to win. Period. You are trying to use statistics (meaningless) to make an argument that the Chiefs were the better team. The better team wins. It’s what makes them better than us. We have been “close” for two years. Who cares? Your arguments are non-starters. Stats are fine if you are in the winning locker room. Do you think the KC defense feels like they are on the better team?
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
I think that argument
is simplistic and provides no path to improvement.
“You lost, therefore you suck, do things differently!”
“But the things we did worked, and put us in a position where, unless our quarterback who played well all day but made two bad passes, both of which were picked off versus Russel who made 10 bad passes and none were picked off, and unless our d-linemen get nailed with a roughing the passer call when he fell down on his own and we landed on him to tackle him, and unless we manage to outperform them in every facet but they manage to somehow score despite playing terribly, we had the best chance to win.”
“…THEY LOST! FIRE THE BUMS!”
I’m so confused.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
It isn't intended to be a path to improvement.
It IS the only measuring stick when you throw out crazy remarks that the Chiefs were the better team today. The better team always (always) wins. It’s why they are better. Losing teams are always fixated on stats to justify how really good they are. I’m not saying stats are useful in analyzing strengths and weaknesses, but please, don’t use them for anything other than that. It really IS that simple: the best team wins.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
Arizona
Arizona lost 7 games in the regular season last year! So if your line of thinking they played 7 better teams than Arizona
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
last week
the Bills outplayed the patriots in every single facet of the game. do you think the pats were the better team?
I think it’s oversimplification. You can say we didn’t do what we needed to to win. But I don’t believe Oakland, led by that terrible QB, with that mediocre performance, was the better team.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Not every facet.
I believe the fumbled a kickoff and gave up two touchdowns in the final few minutes. That allowed NE to score more points and come out as the better team. Seriously, were you surprised? I wasn’t. I was trying to figure out how NE would pull it out, but I never thought Buffalo would win. NE is a winner and finds a way. That’s the way it is. They were definitely the better team.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
So your entire argument
is built on “They’re a winner” and “we’re losers.”
Is there any evidence to present that is not simply built on a cliche?
Also, New England did NOT find a way to win today.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Then they were not the better team.
My only argument the whole time is that you can’t use stats to say we were the better team when we lost. It is just illogical.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
That's not true at all.
Let’s say, for a moment, that we end up going 10-6. This will never happen in a million years. BUT for the sake of the hypothetical.
Let’s say the Raiders go 1-15. Are you going to say they’re better?
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I know you are vying for the Director of Marketing position
But the Chiefs suck they lost yet agin with far inferior talent. I’m getting used to losing the next 5-6 games actually we may win one after the bye
Oh, well that's helpful
thanks for sharing that position. I hadn’t thought of it that way. That makes me think of things completely differently. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions
What is it you want, exactly, Ren?
Fire the staff? Piolil? The whole team?
By the way, DJ, consider this the universe’s way of punishing me for what I inflicted on you two season ago (although I was right)
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
haha
Well it remains to be seen.
The Chiefs with Todd Hailey don’t look markedly better than the Chiefs with Herm Edwards so far.
2 GAMES!!!
Holy crap people we have played 2 games!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
So Right
Pit just lost today so they are 1-1 now… I bet all of the Steeler fans are like “DAMN WE LOST LETS JUST PACK IT IN”
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Pit is acually goood
We lost to a team after outgaining them 4:1 We were bitching last week how we almost won after the same happened to us….face it this team is a bunch of losera.
It was close...
untill the final 4 minutes lol
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
According to you
that isnt the point… they lost that is all that matters. Right?
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
But if we outgained them 4:1
how are we losers? Isn’t that a good thing?
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
how is that worse?
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
it's an anomaly
tha’ts the point. the odds of you putting up that many yards and producing no points is highly unlkely. Especially when you add in the anecdotal evidence that we looked really good at times while doing it Balanced, effective, it didn’t produce points. That’s an anomaly.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree we did look good
I was actually shocked Goff blocked (some of the time) and the rest of the O did well. But honestly it doesnt matter—-we lost—-plain and simple
The NFL isnt going to review the games at the end of the year and say
Well Chiefs you played GREAT!! you lost 80% but you really tried hard. We think you should get a gold star for your performance today
True
But they are only going hand out 1 trophy… Isnt that all that matters? 31 losers in the NFL every year…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't really know
what that has to do with anything. Or are you just finding new ways to say “WINNING IS ALL THAT MATTERS. WINNERS WIN. CIRCULAR LOGIC GOES IN CIRCLES.”
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I think hes saying that
In the end…the best team wins the superbowl..not the one who was “most improved”
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
"WINNERS WIN"
Um, exactly. I believe that would be the definition of a winner.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
...
okay. I’ll give on this one.
Winners win. Someone send that to Haley, STAT.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
When the Giants won the SB
they beat the better team… If you play 5 games between them do you really think that the Pats dont win 3 or 4 of those games?
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
That's funny.
No, wait, best 2 out 3?
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
Pats 18-1 lost the SB
NYG 14-6 won the SB
So 6 teams could say they beat the NYG so they must be better than the Giants that year.
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
My point is
Wins arent always the End all Be all…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
thats my point
Today the Raiders got the W but they arent the better team just because they got the W today…
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I KNEW IT
I knew that’s where this whole thing was going.
I KNEW you were going to want revenge after taking shit.
This team is a million times better than Herm’s squads.
Herm never had this team prepared. We were in a better position to win a game the last two weeks thanw e have been in years, and that includes the wins Herm got by some magic.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude
I’m not the one that bring Herm up in every post.
I remember a couple years ago when you and I would tangle and you kept trying to pin me down on how long we would take to turn the Chiefs around again.
I repeatedly said it was going to take years because the roster was left devastated by Peterson and Vermeils Super Bowl push.
This roster was left devoid of talent by trading picks for older players and bad drafting on Peterson and Vermeils part.
That is still true. We are still in the midst of rebuilding the talent on this roster. Now it is goign to take even longer because we’ve switched schemes midstream.
My opinions are not about revenge in any way shape or form. I gave up on Herm when they went to the stupid Arrowspread because he had abandoned all principles in grasping for one or two wins (which we never got).
Saying we are a bad team right now is not a negative reflection of Todd Haley or Scott Pioli. The team has been bad for years ever since Vermeils veterans retired with no one around to replace them.
There is a dearth of talent on this roster and we are going to be a bad team until we recover from that. And guess what. Thats goign to take a few years.
Agreed.
I’m just trying to say that I’ve seen more preparation from this team than I’ve seen in years.
We’re in the same mindset, here, though.
I think you were expecting less improvement, though. Haley has these guys tackling, which that alone is a huge improvement to me.
I guess a lot of it comes down to:
We’re still in the dark. But versus the Herm years, I feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. With Herm, it was “look at that shit stalagmite! That only happens when you’re close!” I can see the light. And I get that a lot of people think the only way we’re going to be in the light is when we’re out of the tunnel. It’s been a long time since we’ve won. But I can see the plan.
I never saw the plan with Herm. I saw a terrible offense with terrible QBs with a terrible gameplan, with disconnected, pampered players.
I feel much bettter, even at 0-2, staring at 0-8.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're obsessed with Herm
Let it go man. He’s gone. He can’t hurt you anymore.
In the end, it doesn’t matter if we are better or worse than last year. What matters is are we doing what it takes to win games?
Right now the answer is no.
I’m glad you like Haley. I’m glad it makes you feel good that our team has lost 800 lbs.
I’m not sure where you get that we’re more prepared since we still are under 33% in 3rd down conversions.
But everyone is new. Haley is going to get time to prove himself or hang himself. Theres been plenty of disciplinarian coaches that have been absolute failures.
If Haley fails...what next?
I think bring Marty Back…
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Where's the negativity coming from?
From mister optimism? Why so convinced this isn’t working?
And you’re looking at the 33% 3rd down rate without looking at our success on first and second down. Gone are the days of perpetual 3 and outs. That’s a step that makes me happy.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I've never been a fan of Haley's
Its not negativity, its realism.
Anyone saying Haley is millions of times better than whoever you want to compare him to is speaking out of pure hope because he hasn’t proven a single thing yet.
I hope he gets the Chiefs turned around and is the coach for the next 15 years. I’m just not convinced he has what it takes yet.
As Do I RMatt
Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 20, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions
No I want to se wins with a group of functional players
I like the changes in the front office and the HC actually. I’m luke warm on the coordinator roles. I think we are going to blow balls for another year and let Pioli and Haley get a full off season—-then I’ll rail them if they blow 2010
But there's ample evidence against that
We dominated on both sides of the ball. We dictated tempo. We were able to produce in the areas we wanted. We didn’t close the deal, but that was a lack of execution on our part rather than them making plays.
Outside of Seymore coming in and just giving them a talent advantage, I don’t see reason to believe that.
I’d take our three QBS over Russell.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
My point
That is the point I am trying to make… Well said sir!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
We lost
Yeah we have better players in some aspects. In others theirs are better.
The only think keeping the Raiders from being a very good team is that Al Davis runs such a disfunctional organization. They have a lot of talented players on that roster, even with all the retarded moves Davis makes.
But even that being as it is, the Raiders are more cohesive right now than we are.
I would agree they're more cohesive
because there hasn’t been as much turnover in all areas and they’ve drafted better (thanks again, Herm!).
We executed and were able to exert our will on them. They reacted. We made a mistake, they got a field goal. We committed penalties, they forced us to punt.
The evidence supports us being the better team, with a MUCH higher curve for the next three years.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
And that 1st round pick they traded will turn there draft upside down...
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
But we tried improving through the draft
and it got us only halfway there.
Free agency is going to be where we make an impact, hopefully. Again, if we don’t, fair enough, Haley/Pioli fail.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Halfway there is better than nowhere.
We did get some good players out of the draft of Herm…
Im not saying ALL of them were good but we got some good ones.
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
we lose more of them every week
Flowers and Carr were brilliant.
Dorsey I’m warming up on.
Bowe was good.
That’s not bad, now that I think about it.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Page
I used to be high on. Not as much anymore.
Albert had a bad day but in general, yeah.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Stats
are for losers. Wins are for winners.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
now THAT is a philosophy
you can build around.
“Go out there and win, men!”
“How?”
“WIN!”
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
last time I checked the NFL figures out who goes to the playoffs and SB by who wins games—-not moral victories and who looks most improved
Oh, right gotya
I forgot that the Steelers last year had fewer yards, more penalties, more turnovers, fewer sacks, and played worse than their opponents. That’s how you get there.
JUST WIN, BABY.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
that was sarcsm
they were excellent in multiple statistical categories. they did the things you do to put yourself in a position to win. Any coach will tell you that’s all you can do.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Tie breakers...
The Kansas City Chief's 2009 record will be 5-11.
All im asking for is some wins---we have mastered losing
I think everyone has agreed there. I don’t care if we do it with 4 or 24 players I just wasnt to see a freaking win.
I'll take 1 yard and a win...
over 700 yards and a loss any day.
Penn State to Kansas City...Always a winning combination.
wow
if it makes you guys feel better…we could have Norv Turner as our coach…did you see that call on 4th down to end the game…OMG what a retard
hey theere KCCheeze!
I’d like to tell you how much we appreciate your comments on Arrowhead Pride. While you’ve been very helpful with your comments, I thought I’d suggest some other places for you to leave your wisdom!
http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=kan
http://www.kansascity.com/703/story/1457200.html?storylink=pluck_commented
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Classy is simplifying things
into “what a retard.”
Nice. Very nice.
IF you want to disagree, disagree. But try and have some semblance of maturity to your approach. My only point is that if you’re going to say OMG WE SUX WHAT A RETARD you should head on over to the Star threads. MIght fit in better.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
MAWK, he is talking about the Norv's call on 4th down to end the game
He is calling Norv a retard.
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Sep 20, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
did you even read the post?
or did you just not comprehend that i was talking about the chargers and norv turner
sorry
but using “what a retard” no matter who you’re talking bout? is weak sauce and not up to snuff for AP.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
not to get in between this...
but posting up other message boards and saying what you said, well that isn’t very mature either.
by Wrestler189s on Sep 20, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
fair point.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Everyone chill out
its chippy around here tonight. Stop lashing out at each other. We all rooting for the same side here.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Sep 20, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Haven't we had enough hate and personal attacks/jettisons for today?
Just…I don’t know anymore.
"All praise Chiefus."
by DThomasReigns on Sep 20, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I really liked Matts reply
It was subtle as always.
I just wish it had been directed at a legitimate target that was deserving of it.
Well, well, well………..
Have we entered the time of discontent? Six months ago everyone was celebrating Herms departure and vowing the organization could have all the time they needed the first year.
Lets be honest.
Denver’s first win was an absolute fluke. KC’s first game was competitive but not because they played well at all. It was opportunities that paid off. This game had no opportunities that could payoff, with the exception of the end of the first half. As a complete game KC “played” better this game, but instaed of getting the opportunities they gave the opportunities in the form of two interceptions and costly penalties.
KC desperately needs an offensive leader (Cassel might be it) and a defensive leader.
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Sep 20, 2009 6:38 PM CDT reply actions
rookie head coaches
As much as people have dogged tom cable and mcdaniels these coaches have earned wins. All that you need as a head coach is a couple of early wins and then the players start buying what your selling. Not sure how that is going to work with Haley. Feel bad for the guy. I did like the play calling today. Very conservative last week. First play we ran the reverse with Lawrence. Nice! We need his speed on the field. Did we miss JCharles today? What happened to Bradley? I noticed Cassel trying to get it to Ryan a ton.
David Janssen
KC Chiefs Fan
by Mr J on Sep 20, 2009 6:50 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
We are now feeling
what Ravens fans would have felt if we’d won last week. It’s amazing how similar the games were, other than the outcome of course…
by jmcgoblue on Sep 20, 2009 6:50 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
We suck
The time of possession in this game was 38:39 to 21:21 in our favor and we scored 10 pts. When the drives needed to be continued you could count on cassel or anyone else. Our defensive played better against a terrible offense their QB can’t hit the board side of a barn, but yet when the game was on the line we let him march down the field and win the game. In till the bad decisions stop we will never win and Todd Haley and Scott Pioli have only made bad decision.
I wouldn't go there
This was game 2. Yes there were mistakes. Yes we are 0-2, but we are better than last year and still building. Yes I’m extremely disappointed and have already had a family argument because of my poor attitude.
I honestly believe that we have a great shot at beating the Eagles and beating teams down the road. I didn’t expect the Super Bowl this year anyway.
We all need to be patient, and wait for the miracles to come. This will be a season that will build a firm foundation that will send us to the playoffs and big game in the seasons to come.
I do expect wins, but need to temper my hostility when they lose.
I don't mean to beat up on Rid.Matt
But I do think the Chiefs are improved but let’s face it the league, media, and people over the country could give a shit less. They are looking for winners to follow….
I give them another year and I do think they will be very good.
Dude, no worries
I write for AOL Sports, these comments might as well be from an MIT lecture compared to those.
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
you should tell the judge
“But your honor, my client was succesful in stealing the money! He won! Winners win!”
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com
by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 20, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
But you see
he wasn’t a winner. He was penalized severly which cost him the game. The system was the winner.
I remember Dawson to Taylor, Kenney to Carson, and Blackledge catching the snap in his facemask. Seen it all...
Good conversation ALL!
I have to go, but it was great talking some sports!
by flyin_squirl on Sep 20, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Overall I like Haley and Pioli
I think Haley might have a heart attack by week 12 from killing everyone on the sidelines but I think we have improved. It’s sad to say we are looking for futile victories in our search for a win. We couldn’t eaven beat the worst team in the league—-yes that would make us the worst and I’m sure in 100% of the power rankings we are dead last but I really feel we arent——WE JUST NEED TO WIN….just one game
Great! I almost just posted the exact same thing.
I was reading this post and others, just thinking…Come on, its the Raiders. We are upset that we couldn’t grab a game from the Raiders of all people. We got a long road ahead if we are trying to figure out how we could have pulled one off against the Raiders.
With lack of talent, still being the biggest problem
Is there a solution to become a playoff team by next year? I would think that the only way for that to happen would be having players on the current roster, that can be coached up to a higher level then they are now and have some inpact players in the draft. Problem I see is that I can’t really look at any players on this roster (maby TJ) that I could see making a big jump in their game from this year to next.
Glass half full note:
If we consider the Chargers the team we’re chasing(since Denver has the hardest schedule of all and has only played horrible teams) we are only one game back of them after playing the same teams.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
OMG we suck
Come on we didn’t look good today at all, and we were playing the one team in the world that we should beat.
On top of that I think we have a QB controversy (not spelled correctly I am sure). Croyle looked much better last week than Matt did today, and Croyle was playing against a better team than the Raiders.
This could be a long season!!!!
Disagree on this...
I think the Chiefs got screwed on the late hit penalty on Russell on the final drive. According to my eyes, he had fallen down of his own without a Chief forcing him down. When he was covered up, the Ref called it a late hit that move the Raiders down the field and gave them a chance to win.
It was a stupid play. Everyone knows when a player is down, all you have to do is touch him. Not one but TWO chiefs defenders thought it was a good idea to pile on the quarterback when he was down? Did anyone get hurt? No. Was it vicious or intentionally late? No. Was it against the rules to pile on a quarterback after he was down. Absolutely, inexcusably yes. It was a dumb, undisciplined play, the kind we made all game yesterday both offensively and defensively (yes, you – offensive line, Matt Cassel, Dantrell Savage, Jake O’Connell…)
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
