Will Shields on Todd Haley Assuming the Role of Offensive Coordinator
by Chris Thorman on Sep 2, 2009 9:44 PM CDT
in 2009 Kansas City Chiefs Training Camp
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Good 'ole Will Shields. Always around to deliver an objective perspective on the happenings surrounding the Chiefs.
Will Shields was on 810 AM's Border Patrol radio show this morning and he started off talking about Todd Haley assuming the role of offensive coordinator.
Here's what Will had to say:
Well, I was surprised. At the simple fact that it was done so quickly. They say if you're going to make the move, make the move right away. You know, instead of stringing a guy along. If you're second guessing what he's going to do, might as well as get rid of him and do it yourself.
It's going to create a whole lot of new pressures on him [Todd Haley] because there are a lot of other things he needs to be focused on as the head coach. The ins-and-outs of the day to day stuff. He's got to realize he can't do it all. You know, get everybody prepared and then maybe on Sunday he can call the plays. Hopefully he's got a good solid staff around him to help him during the tough, dog days of running the offense and still doing your due diligence on the defense.
I think it's interesting to be able to do it. If you've ever been around coordinators, they always want to have their hand into it, trying to dictate how everything is done. That's one thing he wants to be able to do is to say "Hey, I ran an offense last year that was pretty proficient. I want to get back in there and do it again."
But don't forget you're now the head coach too.
Ah, yes. The level headed, reasonable Will Shields we know. Will Shields stayed on the Border Patrol for about ten more minutes. I know that Will Shields podcast transcriptions aren't exactly the biggest hits on the verge of the regular season so here's the link to check out the full interview.
Do you think Todd Haley will be overwhelmed like Shields suggests?
H/T to ArrowSpread in the FanShots for the original link.
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Seems to be alot of assumption when it comes to comments on Haleys decision.
Its strange because I thought Haley couldnt be more clear in his press conference that he was going to lean on his staff to help him and he has a very strong staff of coaches there to lend a hand.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
Dont think he meant to imply he'd be overwhelmed
Just that he can’t do everything. That’s true. He’s not. He’s doing what other head coaches have done before. I give him props. He’s going to be a very hands on coach. He is demanding more from the team and himself too. Calling plays is something I think he can do and do well. Let’s give him a chance. He seems to think he’s got a good coaching staff surrounding him as well. At first I can see he gave himself a little breathing room but now that he’s been thrown into the fire I he’s going to do what he may have wanted to do all along. I’m not going to waste my time complaining before we even have played a single down that counts… I support Haley and admire his character.
You have just received the Amish Virus. Since we do not have electricity or computers, you are on the honor system. Please delete all of your files.
Thank thee
If you watch Shanahan on the sidelines, he WAS absentee on some defensive series.
He’ll be counting on Pendergast to run the D, if he sees something and wants to cook somethin’ up with his QB between offensive series. If he has his shit together, he’ll already have a guy lined up to make challenge decisions from the booth, anyway, and, recall, Shanahan had one of the highest success rates on challenges, even though we KNOW he was in conference with Smellway much of the time.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Yes
I think he’ll be overwhelmed. He’s holding not just the offensive coordinator and head coaching jobs, but also QB coaches.
It’s a constant trap for coaches who either feel insecure in their position or overestimate their abilities…resorting to micromanagement in able to feel like they’re minimizing risks for themselves. Unfortunately, it’s only the illusion of control because ultimately there are only so many hours in the day and a guy working two jobs is likely producing only half what he would at one…especially a job as time-intensive as head coach in the NFL.
Like I said, Haley’s going to struggle with managing his staff. He couldn’t get along with an OC who had a lot more experience than him and could have helped him, and now he’s made his job even more difficult.
Rookie mistake, coach.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
As For "Leaning On His Staff"
If he’s dumping a guy like Chan Gailey so he can get more input from a guy like Maurice Carthon, he really fucked up by getting rid of Gailey.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
I don't think that's the case
I think he thought he could do the best job calling the plays so he took the job. Not the first time a head coach in the NFL has thought he could do something better. Whether he’s successful remains to be seen.
I do wonder, however, how involved he is with the defense. He’s admittedly not a defensive guy so I wonder how much he really has to do with it and how much time that’s taking.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 2, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think it was JUST playcalling. I'm not even sure it was a significant part of the decision.
I think it’s the summation of how sharp the offense was or was not, in a number of different ways. For all I know, Toomer’s sloth in the 2-minute drill may’ve been the last straw.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Babb was also on and talked about this
That it was also probably because Cassel hadn’t been developing like Haley thought he should be, and he just didn’t like the way that Chan had the offense headed.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Maybe the Quinten Lawrence thing, too.
The one pass he caught over the middle, he was standing still. STILL haven’t seen (m)any completions ON THE RUN BETWEEN THE ZONES. Guys like Taurus Johnson were HIRED for that kind of thing, too, and nada from this kid. Maybe not the quickest to get separation, but how many times have we seen much opposing X-routes, with WRs at full speed 5, 10 and 15 yards down the field? Cassel and Croyle can HIT those, maybe Gutsyerrez, too, but to my eye, it looks like they’re just trying to eke out a few comeback routes.
Blah blah blah. I just don’t see much of ANY hittin’ a guy in stride stuff, which is how the game oughta be played. Low level of execution in that area, and low percentage of attempts in that area. Going with the easier, ?more catchable? passes. ‘Most everything to an RB, the RB has to stop and wait for it, …pause…, and then make an upfield move. These players are too talented for those sorts of things not to be happening. They were headed down the same path that had defenses sittin’ on routes LAST year.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Sure, Tony makes that grab 10 yards down the field,
but very low percentage of YAC situations. Mostly “Good, you caught it, now fall down, like a good Chiefie. We’re SO happy you caught it!”
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Couldn't agree with you more Mills.
They gotta start getting the ball downfield, in stride to the playmakers. Ashlie Lelie will be a valuable weapon to help us get that done IMO.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 2, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
If Haley is truely the coach capable of getting the most out of WR’s, then Lelie will be a good pickup, good deep thread option to Bowe going up for it in traffic.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Can't make chicken salad out of chicken...well, you get the picture
Rec’d to myself for a Casey Printers reference.
On topic, what I meant was that just because Haley has had success with guys like Fitz and Boldin, we shouldn’t expect him to turn Lelie into gold because, with seven years in the league, Lelie’s pretty much shown who he is.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 2, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope you're wrong
I was excited about him coming out of college. I hoped the Chiefs would draft him. As it turns out, he’s been mediocre at best in 7 years. A lot has to do with accountability and for whatever reason, Haley holds his WR’s to a really high standard. Foot up ass. It’s good.
With that said, and Bowe the clear #1, if Lelie on burns the opponent deep once in a while, he will serve his purpose. The mere threat will have opponents planning for it.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Not making excuses for Lelies career or anything but...
He was on the Raiders with Russell, Atlanta the year Vick got arrested etc. He was great when he was in Denver but burned his bridges with Shanny looking for a fat contract. The last few years, he has been on some really bad offenses.
If he can be with Cassel what he was with Jake Plummer, he will be damn effective and should be good for more than just a few plays to keep the defense honest. Could be a real nice one two punch with D-Bowe.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 2, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
He definately has the talent
gumption has been his problem. My hope is that he’s matured enough to want to make something out of his here-to-far meh career.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
The pace Haley runs at will help alot too.
Especially the QB and the Oline.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 2, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Carthon will be telling Haley much,
more the case of Carthon doing what Haley tells him, as opposed to Gailey who it seems had a different vision of how things should be done. If this means the staff is all on the same page it should help not hinder the offense. To me the question is will it cause other areas to get ignored.
The Good: Hiring Pioli and Haley, Drafting Tyson Jackson
The Bad: The Offensive Line Play
The Ugly: Thigpen Trying to Play QB
You May Be Right
I’m just saying that he’s not likely to get any advice from Carthon that’s better than what he’ll give and that’s the problem…the reason you want competent people working with you is to offer feedback that might challenge your own preconceptions or ideas and make you reconsider or improve in areas where at first glance you didn’t think there were holes. Carthon’s not going to do that…Gailey would have.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
...
Carthon’s not going to do that…Gailey would have.
Apparently, Gailey wasn’t. Or the wisdom at leisure was no substitute for action in the heat of battle.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
What I Mean Is
That Carthon’s unlikely to offer feedback anywhere near as good as Gailey would.
I’m sorry but the guy’s career has been one of failure as far as putting together an offense goes. If you have someone pitching in ideas, you want it to be a guy who has good ideas to pitch in. If the problem with Gailey was that Haley didn’t want to hear his ideas, that’s not really a problem with Gailey.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Gailey's vision
And that’s really no surprise they differed because Gailey’s been in the league for 30 years because he was good at doing things his way.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 2, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
The only concern is what hmills said about the defense being moreso in the hands of the defensive coordinator now. Advantage there is you have two guys who have been DC before and Haley will keep them on the same page.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 2, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
You know UC, I disagree with on almost everything.
You say that Chan is a much more experienced OC than Haley which is true but, I watched quite a bit of the Cards last year as well as all the Chiefs games and I can tell you this. Todd Haley is a MUCH BETTER play caller than Chan. I think Haley saw the offense as stagnate and he decided to make a move now. His reputation is the one on the line NOT Gaileys.
Also, I mentioned this yesterday but I heard Coach say the word “embarrassing” in the presser at least twice…He is heavily connected with some damn serious football people. (Parcells, his Father etc) You think he wants to put a losing product on the field with peers like that who have always been successful?? No way. He wants to win and does not want to be embarrassed by the performance of the Chiefs. He takes a lot of pride in what he is doing and I think our offense is going to be much better for it. It can’t possibly be any worse.
Todd Haley > Chan Gailey
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 2, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's Been Pointed Out Quite A Few Times
That Haley was also an OC for an offensive minded coach (Ken Whisenhunt) while Gailey was an OC for an idiot (Herm Edwards). Also, to point out what should be blindingly obvious, Gailey didn’t have a QB on a par with Kurt Warner or WRs on a par with Anquan Boldin or Larry Fitzgerald to work with (and no…Dwayne Bowe was nowhere near as good as either of them). Having outstanding talent to work with can make any coach look good (see: Norv Turner)
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
by UCrawford on Sep 2, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He had an offensive head coach in haley and put up two TDs in three games.
And looked eerily the same as last years Chan.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 2, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup.
I always felt that Gunther Cunningham’s career was the result of lucky coach, great talent.
I have a different sense with Haley. I think he “gets it.” We’ll see. Can’t wait. You can’t call it luck, if the current crew of QBs-WRs starts emerging as one of the better in the league. But until that happens, half-full/half-empty. Take your pick, or, do as I do, and reserve judgement while you add to your poor list of pro’s and con’s (poor because they haven’t played a single game in regulation, yet).
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Agreed
I didn’t always feel that way, but I was absolutely convinced of it after last season. Gunther’s behavior convinced me to reevaluate a lot of his history.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
The Gun
started losin’ me, when what I saw from his supposedly aggressive style of defense, was a very timid, death-by-a-thousand-cuts (but at least it wasn’t a touchdown for several plays in a row) defenses.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I think Gun had a poor eye for talent
And needs someone else to handle that aspect and give him the players he needs to succeed. But I believe what he said about Herm’s defense not allowing him to run his style of defense. I mean, how much could he do in Herm’s crap Tampa 2 defense? It is kind of the opposite of his “attack the QB and take the run away” style.
Rectal Froth
The Argument Would Have Carried More Weight
If his non-Tampa 2 defenses under Vermeil hadn’t been just as terrible.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
That's True
But Vermeil hardly had the eye for defensive players that I referenced above as Gun needing success.
Rectal Froth
Actually, Vermeil Wanted To Go Defense In The Year The Chiefs Drafted Larry Johnson
And the BPA at the time was Troy Polamalu (and I believe the Chiefs had him rated there on their boards)…Peterson overruled Vermeil’s decision to go defense and traded down to take Johnson. So I’d say Vermeil wasn’t all that inept at picking defensive players.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
They didn't get to the Super Bowl until Haley started calling the plays.
And make no mistake, the OFFENSE is what got them there. (Even though the D played great in the playoffs)
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 2, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Now That's Just Cherrypicking
Todd Haley is certainly not the only reason they went to the Super Bowl. They were a 9-7 team that got hot at the right part of the season and only made the playoffs because they played in the second worst division in football (NFC West).
Unless Haley was calling the plays, and throwing the passes, and making the receptions, he wasn’t even the biggest reason the Cardinals went to the Super Bowl.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
I'm not saying he was the only reason.
It just puts a hole in the argument that he was working for an offensive minded coach while Gailey was working for an idiot (true).
I am basing what I am saying on my observations of watching both guys call offensive plays. Haley is MUCH less predictable than Gailey. Also, I will agree that we don’t have the talent Arizona had ( obviously) I think Haley has a good idea how to work with the talent we do have. I actually think we have some great ball handling players on this offense we just need some help on the line and there are ways to call plays that will cover that up until the line gets better at playing together which I don’t think will happen until around mid-season.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 2, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice point.
But really, the only thing to disagree with UC on, just about ever, is his glass-half-empty perspective. I don’t think I’d ever want my life to depend on winning a facts argument about the Chiefs against him.
OTOH, I reserve my own freedom of opinion, same as anybody, and I think UC goes a bit quickly from seeing something questionable to reasoning to a gloomy conclusion. But if straight-line trend analysis holds, his negativity will be vindicated. I just hold out hope that the success-as-a-function-of-time graph just went from negative to positive slope.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
It's Only Because
I’ve watched Chiefs and pro football for 20 years and I’ve learned that when young coaches do something that doesn’t make sense it’s usually because they’ve screwed up and probably shouldn’t be given the benefit of the doubt. And firing an offensive coordinator so you can do his job and the QB coach’s job as well as your own doesn’t make any sense.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
How does this not make sense though?
Does it make more sense to keep someone you arent comfortable with and just ride it out? That sounds like a Hermism if I’ve ever heard one. It makes alot of sense to remove someone that isnt working and you cant exactly bring in a new OC at this time of the year. We’re better off using someone who knows the system and knows what Haley wnats and thats Haley.
Hes also already shown in the last couple practices that he’s delegating the QB coaching elsewhere as well. I think the odds of the working out well is better then the odds were keeping Chan around and it working out.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 2, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
It does make sense
If you can’t work together and have similar philosophies working in the same direction it is time to part ways and there is no such thing as a good time to do so. Yes he just added a lot of work to himself, but I have a hunch he also just took a huge load of tension out of the equation so it may be an even swap. And he spent the weekend talking it over with Pioli and others. I think he is a good enough manager to delegate a lot of duties and not take over too much. It was going to eat him up to watch the offense run off the target he wanted. Just because you aren’t privy to all the reasons and how the work load will be split up doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. I haven’t detected him being stupid yet. Yet I say.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
Is Gailey gone yet
Could Chan be taking over some of the responsibilities of Hailey’s so that Hailey can O.C?
From what we've heard
Gailey won’t have anything to do with the actual on-the-field football operations. Possibly scouting or operations.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 2, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Haley used the word "personnel" as a possibility.
But yeah, a clean break with coaching duties.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
If you are right ("rookie mistake")
The thing that I like about this regime is that changes will be made. Unlike Carl/Herm who would just sit idly and assure us that it was the “right man” with the “right plan” and we should just “get over it”, this regime appears that they will continue making changes until they find something that clicks.
I am tired of building toward a future that we never catch up to. I like the “I see a problem, I’m gonna try to fix it NOW” approach.
Rectal Froth
Haley said that NObody's job was guaranteed, including coaches.
So it’s not like this wasn’t a possibility, and there was a fair amount of redundancy built into the assistant coaching staff, likely with this very possibility in mind. You don’t want to do it, but you know it’s your first time, and your first time with all these coaches working for you, some quite a bit older than you…
No. This guy’s handled himself better than UC gives him credit for, imo. Sometimes you just like the way a guy handles himself. Like he gets it. Deflects attention away from himself, refuses to engage in speculation with the media, and, so far, simply does what he says he’s going to do. Next step is wins, and I’m with UC on “What about the O-Line?” albeit a little less pessimistically. I’m glad UC’s speaking up. I’ve WON these arguments in September, only to be proved wrong by mid-October. That’s the fun of it – the games. Ahhhhh. Can it be less than 2 weeks, alREADY?
I wasn’t very sophisticated when Cunningham became HC (probably not very sophisticated, now)
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
OK, Mills. You've had enough.
Step aWAY FROM THE bar!
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
I'll ride with you Mills.
I’m a little more hopeful too. I truly think the offense is going to be waaay better than it was under Gailey.
by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 2, 2009 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
His O-Line coach has OC'ed, before.
And the thing about relationships is tolerance. And if you can’t tolerate something, it’s better to make the break than to stay in that relationship and end up in a lot of petty dramas.
Whether he’s OC or not, the offense is a direct reflection on Haley. And they weren’t, apparently (and by 3rd party reports), operating at the pace that Haley expects.
Judging by his clear eyes (no dark circles), I’d say he’s keeping a firm grasp on taking care of himself. Remember what a wreck Cunningham was by this time of the year? So I think he’ll be fine in terms of time mgmt. What will be at issue is game mgmt. I think Bill Muir is his ace in the hole, here, but we’ll know after 1 or 2 games if he’s up to it.
As for your “rookie mistake” comment, UC, time will tell. No matter how old I get, KC’ll still be the place I was born, and I’m not firm on how it’ll go, ’til I see how it goes.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
by hmills110 on Sep 2, 2009 10:14 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Are there any other head coaches in the league...
that are also OC? (not to mention QB coach)
by chicks_love_chiefs on Sep 2, 2009 10:22 PM CDT reply actions
Norv Turner
The last coach to win a Super Bowl doing both jobs was Jon Gruden.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
I Think Mora Worked With Him
But maybe.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
Let's see...
Shanahan – The team that John built and ran.
Turner – The team that Jimmy built and won a SB with, before him.
Gruden – The team that Tony built. (To Gruden’s credit, the one thing that stood in Tony’s way was a consistent speed receiver, and Gruden was blessed with one AND won it all with Tony’s team.)
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Sean Payton
Wade Phillips and Lovie Smith do defense.
There’s a handful more but it’s not coming to me right now.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 2, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
And After His First Season
He slid fairly quickly into mediocrity.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
I worked out the numbers the other day UC of 13 different coaches who have done both HC/OC
And the winning percetage came out at .506 so thats hardly a guarantee to fail if you do attempt it.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 2, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I think, UC, it was O-Line turnover that slew the Buccaneer dragon.
Coincidentally, I believe Muir was in that mix, and received mixed reviews for what he did with that offensive line and offense. It’s in his bio. I posted the link, but am going off month(s)-old memory.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
You Might Be Right
I’m not that familiar with his resume, but he did develop Davin Joseph, who’s been a very good guard. And they had one other guard recently who was very good until he got hurt (knee injury). But even the best o-line coach still needs talent to work with and outside of Waters and Albert I don’t know that he’s got it here.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Definitely
It’s an area of critical need this coming offseason. They simply can’t rely on Albert and hope for another good year from Waters while adding nothing else. I was pretty pissed they didn’t go after Jason Brown when he became a free agent.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Not very aggressive at ALL on O-Line.
Hope they know what the hell they’re doin’!
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Ditto
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
8. The Chiefs will have a bottom 10 defense this year.
9. RB will be a problem area this season on offense.
Yeah.
But what I’ve been seeing on the field, despite the problems, is NOT an O-Line that’s slow-footed like Victor Riley was. These guys have “better feet,” to my eye. They’re being overpowered, here and there, but they’re getting better at playing lower and faster, and I think they’re closer than I’ve seen for quite awhile. I think some of the guys, like Haley said (and I didn’t believe, at first), are re-learning much of what they thought they knew about O-Line, because they’ve never played at this weight, before.
And believe it or not, I THINK I’m seeing both McIntosh AND Richardson keeping their feet MUCH better. Would like to see ‘em force a wider angle against the outside move, still, but their feet are still under ’em and they’re still between the rusher and the QB, 5+ yards up the field, which I haven’t seen from RT. So I feel like they’re turning the corner, especially if they get that RG matter settled.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Cable is coaching the QBs, is calling the plays and is quasi coordinator...
And he’s not half the coach Haley is in my opinion.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 2, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Brian Billick took over the offensive play calls
In like ’06 or ’07 when they (coincidentally?) had a great year.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 2, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
And I just gave UC props for knowin' some hard-core facts.
Now we appear to have a difference of opinion on the facts between UC and you.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
Belichek but he's a unique case.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Sep 2, 2009 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
From a play calling standpoint only...
this will be a good move, Chan had to go. What remains to be seen is how he manages the rest of the roles.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
I don't know
Part of me sees the logical side of things that it is way to much for him to handle. Everyone has been saying the same thing about it and I agree. More than anything I think it was horrible timing to it and not completely necessary. Why couldn’t he just call plays with chan running the day to deay stuff.
Then the other part of me hopes that has a weird feeling he just might be able to pull it off. Next year has the potential to be really great if Haley can deliver like he is promising.
Predictions.
1. Tank Tyler will end up surprising everyone and be the anchor of our line.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
All Things Considered
I tend to go with logic before hope when it comes to pro football. Hope is usually just us wishing for the best for our team by trying to pretend that an inconvenient reality doesn’t exist.
That said, I’m obviously not completely devoid of hope since I’ll be watching the games…but my expectations for the team just plummeted. I don’t think the Chiefs are talented enough on offense to make Haley look that good as a playcaller, QB coach and head coach.
Predictions for 2009
1. Todd Haley's going to struggle with managing his staff in his rookie year as head coach.
2. The Lions will draft Matt Stafford, the Rams will draft Jason Smith, and the Chiefs will draft either Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe.
3. Maurice Carthon will be the most hated man on the Chiefs' coaching staff within two years.
4. Larry Johnson has already played his last meaningful game for the Kansas City Chiefs. He's gone before the 2009 season starts.
5. Larry Johnson will gain 0 yards rushing for the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs.
6. The Chiefs will go 7-9 in 2009, good for 2nd in the AFC West. Revision: We go 5-11 and finish behind Oakland.
7. Ryan Succop will not perform better in 2009 than Connor Barth did in 2008.
You and Haley might get along
“I gotta go by what I see, not what I hope.” From his presser the other day.
by Joel Thorman on Sep 2, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the thing.
What we were seeing wasn’t all that good. So it’s rational to be worried. But to read as much into it on the negative side is a bit …. uh… negative. I’m pessimistic because of what I saw on the field. I don’t know if firing Gailey will fix it, but I know that the previous configuration wasn’t getting it done, and at least this way, he’s changing SOMEthing in the way things are currently being done.
No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.
DAMMIT, WILL!
Quit spouting off with your opinions, suit up and get in there and mow down some defenders. We need blockers, Shields!
How qualified
is Will Shields to make an assessment? (More qualified than me obviously, but I am not doing interviews on the subject.)
Rectal Froth
This will be a disaster
he doesn’t even know how to be a head coach yet must les handle three full time spots.
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