Not much has changed

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 16, 2009 4:57 PM CDT Comment 35 comments

I'm not really sure whether I'm offering anything new or not, but for me, not much has changed since last year, at least defensively.

I heard a lot of complaining last year about Herm Edwards' "Cover Two," an exotic system from planet Girlie D in the constellation Whimp E only used by the Chiefs; it was my contention, however, that regardless of how terrible a system may or may not be, if the players on the field don't even feign to execute the system, the system will fail.

I provided as evidence the sickeningly high number of times that our linebackers, whom I contended were the worst in the league, jumped three yards beyond their gaps just to watch whichever HB happened to be lucky enough to line up against the Chiefs skitter by, usually in the space they had just vacated with their...what...overaggression?

No, that's not it; the term "overagression" would imply some type of "aggression." And the way those guys were tackling provided an immediate rebuttal to anyone using any English word with the root "aggress" to describe any Chiefs linebacker.

Nonetheless, the new guard arrived and we all spent the offseason as so many fireworks spectators, oohing and aahing over the exotic new system some dude named Yancy installed which actually required MORE than the three linebackers that "played" for us last year.

And the result? Demorrio Williams jumping three yards out of his gap just to watch the HB skitter by in the space he'd just vacated.

I guess the question is this: can the Chiefs defense ever succeed with guys like Williams and Mays?

Yes, Derrick Johnson looked better in the game against Baltimore and, with his apparent athletic skill, I'm going to give him a chance as in ILB in the 3-4. And yes, Mike Vrabel is/was a heckuva player who can do nothing but help the younger guys around him. But Williams, whom I've never seen play an even adequate game, is an unbelievable liability.And however much loyalty we may wish to shower upon Corey Mays for his work ethic, he is still a guy who couldn't crack the starting line-up in Cincinnati. And however much we may love Tamba Hali's attitude, watching him try to get deep over the middle is simply painful.

Last year, the Chiefs ran a system (the Cover 2) that depended heavily on linebackers and the Chiefs failed miserably. This year, the Chiefs are running a system (the 3-4) that depends even more heavily on linebackers and 501 yards later (not to mention 10-17 on third down), the Chiefs failed yet again.

And I'm unconvinced things will be any better until there's a major overhaul of the guys in two-point stances.

CRB

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Crossing fingers

And hoping as the year goes on things begin to click a little better. I am holding my final evaluations til week 8, but i can see where you are coming from.

by Zimmy on Sep 16, 2009 5:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

I sure hope things change. I’m just not sure Williams especially has any capacity to change.

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 16, 2009 5:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

...

For me the most annoying aspect of the defense is their inability to tackle! For every two or three good plays there will be one play where a couple of players have the chance to make a tackle and that play then goes for fifteen or twenty yards and all the previous good work has been undone….
However after one regular season game you cant really judge this defense because they spent so much time on the field against the Ravens it was no wonder the tired out. I`m sure they will get better when the offense actually turn up :) They didn`t give up many penalties so thats a good start. I really like Jackson and I`m sure as the season goes he will get better and better once he understands the system better. When Flowers returns that will be a major boost….
I really like what the Chiefs office are doing. When they see a problem they quickly try to readdress it…..I really like their signings….I think the futures bright :) Bring on the Raiders this weekend I`m like a kid at Xmas waiting and waiting…..I so wish I was going to that game bigtime!!! I hope the Chiefs get to play over here soon(England) because I`m having withdrawal symptoms :(

by CHIEFS_FAN_ENGLAND on Sep 16, 2009 5:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

LOTS of things have changed

People won’t believe it until they win… but I personally think it’s night and day as compared with last year.

better conditioning
better attitude
better head coach
better GM
not afraid to bring in vets, or cut starters in order to improve
better defensive system
better QB

Anyway, i don’t want to argue all of these points, or the ones you made (thanks for revising with paragraphs, though!)

But, all I can say is that its certainly not the same team from last year, and I’m hoping I’ll be proven right with better results.

* "I doubt anyone will miss Connor Barth except UCrawford"
* the LB corps may become the biggest strength of the Chiefs in 2009
* The OL is NOT as bad as you think it is... give it time, and you'll see improvement this season

by stagdsp on Sep 16, 2009 6:17 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

+1

If Herm was that good of a coach, he would have a job now. (as a coach)

Also, why are 28 of his players from last year, home without NFL jobs?

Winning begins with Attitude - 2009 Chiefs 12-4

by Lanier63 on Sep 16, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty sure the poster isn't asking for Herm to come back...

just for our team to show improvement on the field. I have to agree with him. Thus far Haley’s team has looked no different than Herm’s (other than place kicker). Do I expect that to continue to be the case? I will until I see otherwise.

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Sep 16, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is possible to not be impressed

with Haley’s results at the moment ,and not be yearning for Herm’s return at the same time.

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Sep 16, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

NJ Chiefs Fan is right

And don’t get me wrong, I’m not judging the entire season on the strength of one game. I also agree with stagdsp that lots of things have changed for the better.

My only point is that, when your system depends on solid linebacker play, you’re defense isn’t going to improve until you have solid linebackers.

That and it’s HARD to watch these guys. Not quite as hard as watching your deceased grandmother running by Damion McIntosh untouched…but hard nonetheless.

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 16, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup

85, don’t forget that we lost 8 games last year by 7 points or less. Regardless of the win-loss, we were close in a bunch of games.

And I didn’t say we weren’t a better team. I guess I should have been more specific with the title of my post. I was referencing the defense in general and the linebackers specifically. Beyond those aspects of the Chiefs, I see improvement in many areas, the most important of which (IMO) is in the front office.

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 16, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

We should bring back Herm

"Success is never ending, failure is never final."

by GenericBrand on Sep 16, 2009 6:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Point taken CRB

I think we all need to remember that even though these guys aren’t ideal, we can only do so much at a time. Pioli is gonna keep moving this team in the right direction one new player at a time. It is painful to watch some Sundays, but we are gonna break through…

by Hail2DaChiefs on Sep 16, 2009 7:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bingo

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 16, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't you mean "one OLD player" at a time?

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Sep 17, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone...

who says we aren’t a better team aren’t looking very hard. You can’t judge that off of one game. Wait, actually you can. We LASTED all quarters. Defense played over 40 minutes and were still playing pretty hard. Last year we would have given up 40 points in the fourth quarter alone. We DID give up a lot of yards but I expect we don’t even give up half of that this next game.

by Chiefsfan85 on Sep 16, 2009 7:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

We lasted 4 quarters many, many times last year.

That is the poster’s point, I believe.

by NJ Chiefs Fan on Sep 16, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup

85, don’t forget that we lost 8 games last year by 7 points or less. Regardless of the win-loss, we were close in a bunch of games.

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 16, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

...

They were close……but on all of those games, our offense was on the field a lot longer than they were Sunday. Yeah, I agree on the LB core. Mays, is decent against the run. Just blew coverage. I do believe Brown will do good things this year for our secondary. We do better against the pass we’ll do fine.

by Chiefsfan85 on Sep 16, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Be nice to Mays ...

after all, he’s the one who gave up TonyG’s last TD catch as a Chief

===============

personally, I agree with the original post: we are NOT better than last year … we do NOT have a “better” HC or OC, offense, defense LBs, RBs, WRs, OL …

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Sep 17, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Herm had 3 years

Hailey’s had 1 regular season game, give the man a break. Also I would like to add the cover two can be a wicked defense if ran properly w/ the right people+

step 1 collect underwear
step 2 ?????????????
step 3 profit

by I_AM_NINJA_2 on Sep 16, 2009 8:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not judging Haley

I’m judging the linebackers. Neither was I judging the Cover 2. In fact, through sarcasm, I was, in a manner, defending the Cover 2.

Systems are great. But systems have to be executed. By players. The greatest system in the world can’t account for players who shouldn’t be on the field in the first place.

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 16, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Herm really had ONE year ...

… with HIS players and what anyone could reasonably allow was HIS “team”

The first two yrs Herm was here, it was Old King Carl’s show – lock, stock and barrel – and Old King Carl wanted to add more veterans, always thinking we might be just one or two key players away from winning … whatever

thing is, we weren’t …. what we were was old and getting older by the minute … it wasn’t until after Herm’s SECOND year that CHunt, who had taken over, finally agreed with Herm that yeah, the way to rebuild was thru the DRAFT … herm had to fight over that with Peterson, and it’s only because of Herm winning that battle that we have ANY good, young players on the roster right now: Page, Flowers, DJ (when he’s on, although he was Carl’s pick all along) …

point is, Herm had ONE year with HIS players: and remember, a year ago Croyle got hurt, so then Herm didn’t even have HIS qb … to his credit, he allowed Chan Gailey to revamp the offense to suit the skills of the players they DID have, the result was a VERY competitive and yes, fun to watch team the last 8 games … and to be honest, the offense those last 8 games was far and awya better than ANYTHING I’ve seen in preseason, even with Cassel, much less the pitiful showing on Sunday vs Balt

I won’t claim that Herm was the best coach ever (and on the sidelines, gameday, he was horrible) … but the team played HARD for him: every play, every game … and they were closer to winning games than this year’s bunch was on Sunday, by far

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Sep 17, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do agree

You can run any scheme w/ losers and still suck I got that part. As far as the linebackers they did have a lot less to do in the cover 2 D. So I’m letting them slide on a learning curve except for Vrabel he knows better than to suck lol

step 1 collect underwear
step 2 ?????????????
step 3 profit

by I_AM_NINJA_2 on Sep 16, 2009 9:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Though I think there has been much improvement on the team overall

I’ll agree that I am concerned about these LBs. I am going to give them a few weeks before I make any kind of final judgment on the group as a whole. I am hoping the improvements on the offense are enough to help us win more of the close games this year and I truly think they will. Once the offense starts to move the ball with consistency, I think the defense will follow suit by being rested if nothing else.

Still too early to push the panic button. If we lose this weekend at home, that might freak me out a little.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Sep 16, 2009 10:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i think its different

this year we’re with them all game, not for one half then disappear and lose….we were tied 24-24 with 2:06 when they hit a 3rd and long for a TD from the 32, otherwise thats a 49 yarder if its incomplete….he had already missed….even if he didnt, a field goal may have changed our strategy and not had the sack/fumble…..not to play a game of what ifs…

its just, this team seemed more competitive, and not just lucky…yeah the block was slightly lucky, but this team kept tying the score, not go up by 20, then lose it over time.

by SDChief on Sep 17, 2009 1:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

1 GAME!!!!!

Jesus! It might just take more than that to see the fruits of the work/change. I agree we looked mostly terrible at LB, especially in coverage But, I see a pretty big difference from last year.
I see a team that gives a shit if they win or not!
they aren’t making excuses
they’re in condition
management shows willingness to continue to bring people in to make us better, instead of getting comfortable w/ losing and just saying it’ll take time (“rebuilding”)
Personally i’m willing to give the coaches a little benefit of the doubt; they have shown the willingness to bring in new guys so if they’re so tore up about our LB’s (and they saw the same game we did) then I think they get some other guys in here.

It’s gonna take a little while for all these necessary changes to smooth out and show that that’s the case. If they don’t show improvement week to week, and then be very close to were they need to be by week 6-8, then I’ll be worried!

by E.C. on Sep 17, 2009 1:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

calm thyself!

linebackers, linebackers, linebackers.

and i’m referencing fundamentals. when a player shows a consistent lack of fundamentals, not over 1 GAME!!!!, but over many, it’s time to be worried.

go back and watch the tape. watch how many times corey mays and demorrio williams are shoulder-to-shoulder, three yards to one side or the other of the center, being man-handled, as the half backs scoots by on the opposite side of the center. at least as it pertains to williams, this is exactly the way he played all of last year and the year previous. as SupremeChief so eloquently put it below, “uncoachable.”

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 17, 2009 5:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah i took some deep breaths

and slept on it=] also, might of tossed a few back before i wrote that, i don’t remember. but that doesn’t change the fact that i think you need to give it a little time. at the very least see what they do this sunday.
I know the LB fundamentals are terrible out there, but they, mays and williams and others might need time to unlearn what they’ve either been coached or allowed to do in the past; might have been a little of the big big eyes syndrome, i know they’re not rookies but game1/on road/ravens. or maybe they’re football iq is just very low and they’ll never get it

that being said, this current organization has shown a willingness to only play/keep the guys that give em the best shot to win, so you might see a diff as early as when the depth chart comes out for this game. these guys might be third string. the coaches sound like they’ll move guys around on a daily basis if they’re not doing it right. it doesn’t sound like they’ll just leave the same guys in there all year, regardless of how they play, and that might be the biggest difference over last year!
They want to win every game and they’ll do whatever it takes to make it happen.

by E.C. on Sep 17, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

can't disagree :D

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 17, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The good news is it isn't impossible to coach better pass coverage fundamentals.

If there is little to no improvement…a) your coach isn’t doing his job or b) the player is “uncoachable.”

by SupremeChief on Sep 17, 2009 3:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

maybe not

but when a player makes the same mistakes repeatedly, from one coach to the next, it’s time to begin to worry about that player.

by Chief Running Bare on Sep 17, 2009 5:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But wait!

From what the vast majority of posters here seem to think, Haley can walk on water … and he can cook, clean house, do the laundry AND mind the children AND juggle fire sticks AND swords ALL AT THE SAME TIME

He’s JUST THAT GOOD … well, from what I keep reading, anyway

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisiton!

by upamtn on Sep 17, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We are missing

an intimidator! DT was the last guy we had on D to actually scare opposing teams! Teams with great Defenses always have their guy or guys to strike fear, to game plan for. We dont have that right now. If we do please name the player….

I want K.C. Wolfs' job!

by Jonezin4KC on Sep 17, 2009 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs