Natural Progression and the Chiefs

by dorsey on Aug 9, 2009 7:32 PM CDT Comment 19 comments

When a college football team returns a significant portion of their roster, the expectation is that team will be improved. I read the SI SEC preview, and the writer of Arkansas' preview pointed out that 97% of the team was returning for the upcoming season, so improvement throughout the Razorbacks would be inherent.

The point that underlies the argument is that young players will improve or naturally progress or improve. Last season Herm Edwards and Carl Peterson sacrificed their jobs to try to prove that very logic for the Chiefs. Remember Herm's recent comments:

We had to do it with 20 rookies. We couldn't finish in the fourth quarter. I was coaching a college team. But I had fun. And we got better. I believe I've made it better for the next guy.

Brian Waters agreed with Herm:

The next guy will get a lot of credit ... but the truth is Herm Edwards built this football team.

The implication is that the Chiefs will be inherently improved. Will this happen? Is Herm's logic sound? Can NFL rookies be treated like college players? If so, how much improvement? These are questions I've been pondering for awhile now.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

0 recs | Comment 19 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

to win just because you have a lot of players returning

only means that those players were winners to start with.
A 2-14 team with 100 % returning means you will be about 2-14.
Herm is right to a degree that the next guy will have some players to work with.
But Haley has to weed out the good from the slackers that Herm let reside here last year.
A MU fan here and last year never is indicative of this year, other than the good teams are usually still at top and the bad teams are still usually at the bottom.
Citing Brian Waters is a killer.

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 9, 2009 8:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Chiefs mortgaged the future, reaching for game-changers that didn't.

Edwards didn’t have a lot of flexibility. The cap structure was all outta shape after Vermeil retired, and he’d held ‘em together during his tenure with bailer twine. Too many reaches that didn’t pan out, and crippled them on basic team-building.

Pioli has the luxury of being true to a solid team-building philosophy with the means to support it.

Edwards didn’t do enough on strength-and-conditioning, and he was probably afraid of losing the loyalty of what few veterans he DID have by taking a tough line. I saw more flashes of players who want to put it to the other guys more than they feared making a mistake under Edwards. Too many mental errors to go with that. You can point to lack of conditioning, but a big part of it is the blown play that keeps putting the D back on the field or KEEPS the D on the field.

Edwards was his own worst enemy with that “bunch of college players” kind of remark, even if it were true.

There’s a fine line between tough conditioning and breaking people down, and Edwards couldn’t walk the line, partly because of lack of depth, but also because he really didn’t get people in who knew the difference. I think Haley’s walkin’ the line (Knock on wood).

No question. Otis Taylor should be in the Hall of Fame.

by hmills110 on Aug 10, 2009 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is amazing is that the studs Edwards brought in who can play

Are eating up Haley’s plan because they are more sick of losing than us Fans :)

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 10, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is some truth to that but,

Herm is a terrible coach although he is a great evaluator of talent. You can get all the talented players in the world but, you can’t win if you can’t prepare them to compete at this level. Game planning, preparation, and discipline are every bit as important as talent.

Even if Herm did build this team, Haley will be the one to complete the deal and get us to the dance. Herm should never coach again but, if he wanted to be a scout, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings.

by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 9, 2009 8:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh I don't know

he is a great evaluator of talent

Herm is a great evaluator of talent in the secondary. I’ll agree with that. He made some boneheaded moves though. Medlock? Rayner? Yikes. Herm did have some hits too, but I don’t think I’d want him as a scout.

Overall, I think you’re right though. He did OK (or so it seems) with the draft. There is ALOT more talent on the team than what it looked like last year. Herm was just such a shitty coach he couldn’t do anything with it. I seriously think he could take over the Patriots right now and lead them to a losing season without a problem.

TOUCHDOWN! KAN-SAH-CITY!!!

by TheScootness on Aug 9, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Herm/Carl made some silly personnel decisions, but Medlock was not one of them

ALL the data suggested that Medlock would be a solid NFL kicker. No one could have predicted that his brain would have exploded ala “Scanners” once he felt real NFL pressure.

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Aug 10, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dating yourself some

Scanners ha :)
Kickers have to kick those little NCAA footballs too
as do the QB’s have to throw them.
and the WR’s have to catch them.
Maybe the NCAA needs to use regulation NFL Footballs?

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 10, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

Scanners…I actually have that on DVD. Love the brain explosion.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Aug 11, 2009 6:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1 about the Patriots

He could lose with the most talented roster in the league..

As far as his drafts go though, I think he drafted a lot more good players than bad. If you were going to look at hi hit/miss ratio I believe he would look VERY good when stacked up against the rest of the league. For every Medlock there is at least one Brandon Carr or Dwayne Bowe (Who I believe is the best pick the Chiefs had had in years).

There are always going to be guys who should be great and end up busting . You really can’t pick em all

by Chiefsfan1970 on Aug 10, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the thing to watch

Will be how many of last years players ARE still on the team when the right 53 is chosen. Herm most certainly gave us a bunch of good players, but most certainly was not going to develop them into winners. The new guys know talent and will be able to take advantage of the good pieces that Herm and Carl left, but it may be surprising how many new faces you see when it is all said and done.

Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.

by Zodeman on Aug 9, 2009 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Just because you buy and deliver the lumber and bricks

doesn’t give you credit for building the fucking house! I liked Brian Waters a lot better when he kept silent. He made more sense then.

"But what do I know, I'm AP's new assclown and I’m like an empty room with a large ECHO"

by Lanier63 on Aug 10, 2009 12:26 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

+1

Great analogy.

by ajanzen on Aug 10, 2009 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa Lanier

droppin’ the F-bomb. Why don’t you tell us how you really feel about this? =)

Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.

by PVChiefsfan on Aug 10, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stress :)

in hindsight

Let's Kick some ASS in 09 or Die trying

by Steve_Chiefs on Aug 10, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Herm couldn't make it work with a bunch of young players (not taking responsibility)

but he wants the credit by saying he has “made it better for the next guy”. What a complete and total abject and utter loser. Good riddance to that POS.

by G.L. on Aug 10, 2009 3:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Typical Herm. Not willing to take any blame while he was here, but more than willing to take credit for what happens IF the team improves after he’s gone. What the dolt isn’t able to come to grips with is the biggest improvement every team makes after letting him go is replacing him.

by dablueguy on Aug 10, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs