Eight Camp Practices Down, Sixteen to Go for the Kansas City Chiefs
by Chris Thorman on Aug 6, 2009 7:06 AM CDT
in 2009 Training Camp
78 comments
The Chiefs only have one practice today from 2-4 PM, after a two-a-day yesterday in beautiful and sunny River Falls, WI.
The big news from yesterday of course was the Chiefs signing former New England Patriots backup quarterback Matt Gutierrez. The team cut QB Ingle Martin to make room him.
Let's talk about what the QB depth chart looks like and more after the jump.
Croyle v. Thigpen
We know that Matt Cassel will start the regular season atop the Chiefs' QB depth chart. That leaves three QBs - Croyle, Thigpen and Gutierrez - all vying for that coveted #2 spot. Cassel after all was a #2 QB in New England and look where that got him....
In my opinion, I'm almost 100% sure, pending injury, that the depth chart will read Cassel #1, Croyle #2 and Thigpen #3.
Why no love for Thigpen? Well here's the thing. The Chiefs aren't going to be running the same offense that Thigpen ran last year. He was successful in an unconventional offense that suited his talents and the talent around him at the current time.
This isn't that same team anymore.
I have no doubt we'll be seeing our share of the shotgun this year but that doesn't mean that Thigpen is the best option for that.
As much as I love watching the guy play, he never struck me as a quarterback who could line up in a more traditional offense and excel over a long period of time. Croyle is that guy, injuries aside. He has the greater arm strength and zip on the ball, which is a huge advantage. Thigpen needs that little extra commotion or scramble. It's an essential and great part of his game. It's just that this isn't the same year as last year. The Chiefs hopefully won't have to run flea flickers to score TDs.
Don't get caught up in camp reports
Part of my overall point is that those of you who honestly thought that the Chiefs should have kept Ingle Martin over Croyle or Thigpen really need to take a step back during training camp and be more objective instead of going by less than a week of camp reports on QBs. Croyle and Thigpen both have tons more NFL experience than Martin, which matters far more than how they've done in eight practices in August 2009.
These fan blinders come on especially when it comes to kick returners, which always seems to be a training camp battle around here. Somebody is going to say, based on probably five lines of reporting from camp, that So and So should obviously be the kick return guy over some other players. How can you possibly argue something like that if you haven't been to camp? And even if y been to camp and watch guys field punts and kicks, one of the players would have to be extraordinarily better to definitely say one guy has the job. It doesn't look like that's going to happen this year.
Don't be that guy. Be objective, be reasonable. It is after all, training camp. These aren't real games against real competition. Keep things in the proper, wider context and you'll enjoy camp that much more.
***
How's that for a morning ramble? We'll have more for you coming up soon. Remember, practice is today from 2-4 PM. We'll have updates for you after that.
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I agree
Plus, Pioli and Haley are way more qualified to evaluate talent than anyone here.
by EyePod on Aug 6, 2009 7:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is that so? Well, for your information ...
I’M the guy who told Carl about Matt Blundin.
You’re welcome.
"If you shoot me, you're liable to lose a lot of those humanitarian awards."
--Irwin M. Fletcher.
by Arrowheadcase on Aug 6, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot to add this
I’m still drinking the Pioli Kool-Aid this season unless we only win 4 or less games. I don’t care if it’s an improvement.
by EyePod on Aug 6, 2009 7:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good insight Chris!
We all are guilty about getting fired up (especially on topics such as these)…and I agree with EyePod, there’s a reason Pioli and Haley are doing their respective jobs….and why we are doing this. I think that more and more that we here at AP are going to be scrutinized for what we all say. So, we should all represent what we really are… fiercely loyal, yet intelligent fans.
Virtus En Arduo
by carthagechief on Aug 6, 2009 7:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good Points
I’m continually amazed at how people are trying to make final evaluations on all these guys already. There is still a lot of preseason left, and we’ve only begun the time when, with pads on, Pioli and Haley can truly evaluate what we have here. We’ve come a long way in the offseason, it is obvious that camp and conditioning is WAY different than we have seen in the past, but we still have a long way to go. I have complete confidence that management knows who is available and is watching closely to see if there can be any upgrades made.
There was an article the other day talking about teams making 10 or more moves after camp starts. We now have 3 down. Seven to go.
I’m just having fun watching what is happening, without being real judgemental about the parties involved yet. In reality, as long as we win THREE games, we have improved. I’ve been drinking the kool-aid and it tastes great, and I think we will do a lot better than that this year. In fact, I may have moved past the kool-aid and started into the Pioli Pixie-Stix.
Chiefs go 9-7. LJ makes 1400 yards. DBowe makes 1200 yards. Defense #18.
by Zodeman on Aug 6, 2009 7:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ehh
It doesn’t really matter who gets the number 2 spot, either way thigpen will be on the field if Cassel goes down. It’s just a question of how many quarters Croyle will last before he is broken in half.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Aug 6, 2009 7:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Croyle~injuries aside~
up high, down low, at the legs, in the head, where else could he be hurt? EVERYWHERE! You cannot put his injuries aside~ The FACT that he is INJURY prone makes him very expendable~!!!!!
Another thing Chris~ You points are one point! THIS ISNT THE SAME TEAM AS LAST YEAR!
just in two different columns! LOL
GOOO CHIEFS!
Ol' Kansan' Chief
by Kansan_Chief on Aug 6, 2009 7:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It may not be as simple as 2nd string, 3rd string...
So they slate Croyle in there as the “2nd” string. That doesn’t mean Thiggy won’t go in, or maybe Croyle does go in, here’s my point….it’s all about taking advantage of what you have. We have 3 guys that have been on the field in live action. In my opinion, I don’t want the opposing team to know whos coming in (hopefully neither). So, I say it doesn’t matter who’s 2 and who’s 3…hell, they could all end up on the field at the same time at some point for all we know.
Virtus En Arduo
by carthagechief on Aug 6, 2009 7:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Calling Bull shit on Croyle over thigpen
How should I put this.
Let’s say you need to get to work. You go outside, get in your car, turn over the key and it doesn’t start. You notice you left the lights on the night before and your battery is dead. You don’t have time to screw around or you are going to be late.
You don’t work that far away but you will never make it on time if you walk. You go and open the garage door. You have two bicycles in there. One is a spakin new mountain bike you used just last week on some trails with your buddies. You had a blast but while you were loading it into the back of your friends truck, you caught it on something and the chain popped all thje way off. You also bent the part where the chain hooks on and you are pretty sure, even if you take the time to fix it, the chain will pop off again when you are halfway to work. Plus it’s not worth gettin gyour hands dirty.
The other bike is an old rust bucket, english three speed you have had since you were in college. You don’t ride it two much anymore but its tires are still full of air.
Which bike do you take to get to work? You take the the rust bucket. You know why? Because even though the other bike might be a little better it is F’ing broken!
Croyle is broken. It doesn’t matter if he can throw the ball 100 MPH and 100 yards. He cannot stay on the field. He is as useless as your car and the mountain bike. Both are better than your rust bucket but the rust bucket is goign to get your ass to work.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 6, 2009 8:00 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I see your point....
but, I just had a Real Men of Genius moment….Mr. Calling Bull-Shit on Croyle over Thigpen Guy…. (Mr Calling Bull-Shit on Croyle over Thigpen Guuuuuuyyyyy…) lol…Sorry, dude. I couldn’t help it.
Virtus En Arduo
by carthagechief on Aug 6, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha funny!
Furthur more on my point, I don’t actually believe Croyle is better than Thigpen.
Croyle has 6 career TD’s versus 8 Ints.
Croyle will throw a TD every 43.4 passes and an interception every 32.5 passes…so he will throw more picks than TD’s.
Thiggy?
TD every 23.6 passes vs. a pick every 32.7.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 6, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll call BS on those numbers
Thiggy’s numbers came running a system designed to cover the fact that he couldn’t handle running a real pro offense. It’s funny how the Thiggy lovers seem to have wiped the memory of the Atlanta game last year from their memories. Thigpen trying to run the chiefs offense in that game was the worst NFL level quarterbacking I have ever seen. I give mad props to Chan for coming up with a system that he could make work (but it relied heavily on dumping off to a certain HOF TE that is no longer on the roster). I just don’t see Pioli and Haley wanting to run a gimmick offense. I agree that Croyle is not dependable but if we need a QB to come in for Cassel to finish a game Croyle would be better able to run the same system.
Ten sacks in a season! For crying out loud that's what I used to average per game using DT in Tecmo Bowl!
by KCporkchop on Aug 6, 2009 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I call BS on you calling BS
Thigpen was 3rd string and have very limited snaps in the offense designed for Croyle. Croyle had been so pitiful and hte team was so green that Herm had the first team taking a lot fo the snaps.
I remember the Atlanta game perfectly. Thigpen was terrible. So was our offensive line. Remember Croyle and Huard getting murdered in the Caralina and Titans games? Any QB would have had trouble in that schenme and behind that line.
The coaches went to a system Thigpen had gotten some snaps in an it worked, thus Thigpen worked.
It’s funny how Thigpen haters seem to forget the Jet’s game. Go back and watch it. Thigpen is taking a lot of snaps from under center to start that game. They didn’t move to all out spread till later.
Annnd I don’t buy the gimick offense versus pro style offense. All offenses are gimicks. Our “Pro Style Offense” netted us as many wins as the “gimick Offense.”
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 6, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
QB;s who had TD Passes for the Chiefs last year
Thigpen 18
Huard 2
Bradley 1
Gray 1
LJ 1
Croyle 0
Yeah, I’ll stick with Thigpen.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 6, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
There were telling preseason numbers in offseason too accumulated by gretz showing htat Thigpen had a better passer rating under center then even cassel did so no giving me this “he can’t run this offense” garbage. Thigpen came in with limited offseason/regular season reps and gave us a reason to watch football last year.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Aug 6, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I call bullshit on running a real pro offense.
He was playing on offense on a team in the NFL right? then that is a pro offense.
by ravenhawk on Aug 6, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
a 3rd stringer taking only a handfull of snaps throws multiple interceptions in a game and royaly sucked balls that game. that was expected. what u wanted him to go out there and be Joe montana, umm no. hell the best qb in the league Peyton manning had a 4 interception game last season. a horrible game, and he’s a what 12 year pro, with a super bowl ring. why arent u bashing him? u should bash and redicule him more so then Thigpen.
Proud Supporter of Tyler Thigpen.
by nfamous209 on Aug 6, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you Patrick, but I think I get where Chris is going.
Same type of story line, except instead of a bike you have your 2005 Escolade with a car tower pulling an old Fiesta. The Escolade is having problems and you don’t know if you can get 1 mile or 100 miles. The Fiesta is crap but runs great. What do you do? Jump in the Escolade and run it till it dies and then get in the Fiesta to finish the trip.
They run Croyle till he breaks (We all know he will) and then bring out Thigpen. Let’s just hope it never comes to that.
by Helmets on Aug 6, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This gimick offense stuff is bull shit
every offense is a gimick. I don’t understand. The offense is a plan, if the plan works the offense works.
They had an offense for Thigpen and he did well in it. He scored TD’s. He didn’t throw too many picks.
They had an offense for Croyle. It was throwing crappy short passes or throwing sideways at a horrible attempt to create a running game. Give me a break.
So Croyles gimick offense was a failure and he was a failure in it. Not to mention his inability to survive in it.
Thigpens offense which worked for our team, worked because we had Tyler Thipen playing QB. If Croyle tried to run that offense he would get killed.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 6, 2009 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if Cassel gets knocked out of a game in the 4th qtr
you want the chiefs to suddenly have to go to a whole new offense that they haven’t run all game and probably haven’t practiced on a regular basis. I could maybe buy Thiggy as the back up if Cassel is down long term but I just can’t imagine him being able to come in and run the same scheme as Cassel. Now I’m not saying that Croyle will be great in that role, but at least we could keep some consistancy.
Ten sacks in a season! For crying out loud that's what I used to average per game using DT in Tecmo Bowl!
by KCporkchop on Aug 6, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who says the Chiefs aren't running the same offense?
They have the same offensive coordinator. His offense worked pretty well.
I recall reading player interviews from OTA’s where offensive playuers said “It’s the same offense.”
I am sure it will be somewhat different but Cassel and Thigpen both took most of their snaps out of the shotgun with the offense spread out last year.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 6, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my point is
If we want to be a contender I don’t think we can do it with Thigpen at QB. Did he make our offense respectable last year, yes. Was it an improvement over what Croyle had been doing, yes. Did we have to go to that goofy “pistol” formation to run the ball because he wasn’t comfortable under center, yes. Did the passing game mainly consist of scrambling around and either dumping off to TG or lobbing a jump ball up for Bowe, yes. So I will concede that if Cassel is hurt long term and our offensive line is crap and we can’t run the football, then Thiggy is our guy. But if that’s the case our season is going to look a lot like last year. My hope would be that we are good enough to run a real nfl offense. That we can actually run the football a little bit and that we can run passing plays that involve the QB actually reading a defense and hitting a receiver in their route. If that’s the case, then I think Croyle is better suited to run that type of offense.
Ten sacks in a season! For crying out loud that's what I used to average per game using DT in Tecmo Bowl!
by KCporkchop on Aug 6, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as far as it being "the same offense"
I can’t imagine they’ve been running a lot of “pistol” formation in camp and we’re screwed if the passing game is still built around the TE.
Ten sacks in a season! For crying out loud that's what I used to average per game using DT in Tecmo Bowl!
by KCporkchop on Aug 6, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was said best in the Karate Kid...
If he can’t walk…. he can’t fight.
If he can’t breathe… he can’t fight.
If he can’t see… he can’t fight.
If you can’t stay healthy… you can’t make the number 2 spot.
Also if you had read Patrick’s comment fully he states “I am sure it will be somewhat different but Cassel and Thigpen both took most of their snaps out of the shotgun with the offense spread out last year.”
If you look at Tony Gonzalez he wasn’t just a TE, he was the best receiving threat on the team. TG’s role has been transferred over to Bobby Engram, and Amani Toomer whom are designated wide receivers.
The true tight end on the team last year was Brad Cottam, and if you are worried about him in a similar offense… I’d say there is bigger problems.
by ravenhawk on Aug 6, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So ...
They run Croyle till he breaks (We all know he will) and then bring out Thigpen. Let’s just hope it never comes to that.
What you’re saying is, if Cassel goes down, they bring Brodie in to take a couple of snaps (you know, before the defense snaps him) to give Thigpen time to warm up, right … ?
by JacinB on Aug 6, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"you left the lights on the night before and your battery is dead"
Why is this guy in charge of our transportation choices? Why didn’t we just call a cab or take the bus? Didn’t Herm get fired?
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Aug 6, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 6, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Furthermore is this "work" on the otherside of a mountain
Or is it an even paved road? Have you considered getting a road bike? It sounds like you got ripped on the last one, so you might want to pop for something with a warranty like a Trek or a LeMond.
But if you’ve even got like cobblestones between home and there, you gotta go with the mountain bike, and kudos on keeping air in the rustbucket’s tires, that’s impressive bicycle maintenance.
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Aug 6, 2009 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Possibility you hadn't considered:
He got the girl to wink back and they were in a rush to get in the house.
by JacinB on Aug 6, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont
comment much on this blog mostly because I am not a huge NFL fan, i root much more for Baseball and Hockey seeing as i grew up in st louis. i grew up rooting for the chiefs because the Rams werent there yet. But out of both teams, the chiefs have done the most to try and truly revamp just an aweful team. Yes its ok to hope for more then 4 wins. which is definitely what needs to happen. But as a die hard fan for the Cardinals in baseball and the Blues, you just have to look at the team on paper, not the GM or coach, because they are not on the field playing or executing the plays. Having high expectations for the season would be a bit silly since coming off a 2 win season. My expectations for this team is that they should at least at the minimum be a 7 win team, with the draft and acquisitions made
Pujols takes out "I" in BIG and "A" in MAC, previously considered to be an unyielding, consonant threat
by DESTROYER on Aug 6, 2009 8:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if Croyle is technically the #2 QB
I can still imagine us seeing Thigpen every once in a while for some sort of gimmick play (or, more likely, to present the threat of a gimmick play)
Gailey is the batshit crazy mad scientist of offensive coordinators
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Aug 6, 2009 8:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thiggy~
and the WILDCAT! Could Croyle be the wildcat? If you a hoping he breaks every bone in his body! lol
Ol' Kansan' Chief
by Kansan_Chief on Aug 6, 2009 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Screw the wildcat
I’m talking about having Cassel and Thigpen on the field at the same time – maybe Thiggy lines up in the slot…or maybe Cassel is in the shotgun, with Thiggy next to him as a “RB”
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Aug 6, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 QBs on the field at the same time is not tricky
All it does is take a more talented player off the field. Also, it leaves the door open for one or both QBs to get hurt on the same play. Than you’re down to 1 QB with a bunch of practice squad fodder as the back ups.
Thigpen works at WR when another player other than a QB is taking the snap. Otherwise, if Cassell is taking the snap and Thiggy is lined up as a receiver…he is just another receiver.
by ChiefsFan79 on Aug 6, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
While Bones wouldn’t be as good of a receiver as the 3rd he is replacing, he is not just another receiver. The person taking the snap doesn’t change what someone is. Thigpen lined up as a WR is always going to be a threat for multiple trick plays.
And if you don’t think we will see trick plays next year, you’re crazy.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Aug 6, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Otherwise, if Cassell is taking the snap and Thiggy is lined up as a receiver…he is just another receiver.
Except he is “just another receiver” that happens to be much better at throwing the ball than the other receivers…
Watch some old footage of Kordell Stewart with the Steelers…when the actual QB got the ball to Stewart, defenses had to keep him from running with it, but also had to respect his passing ability.
Marley will be walking soon...she could probably play Linebacker better than some of the guys we had.
by PVChiefsfan on Aug 6, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kordell Stewart
is more athletic than Thiggy. Not saying better QB…but better athlete.
I have no problem with trick plays and am not ignorant that they won’t have trick plays to use. But 2 QBs on the field at the same time is not one that I expect to see this season.
by ChiefsFan79 on Aug 6, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wildcat's a stupid name, it's a direct snap
Now Tylercat might work
by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Aug 6, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way.
There is not a chance in the freakin’ world that Brodie is #2 over Thigpen.
Mark it down now: The QB depth chart at the end of camp is going to be (1) Cassel, (2) Thigpen, (3) Gutierrez. (And, frankly, I’d be surprised if Croyle’s not the guy who gets cut to make room for Tyson Jackson.)
by JacinB on Aug 6, 2009 8:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I want in on this Action!
Personally, I see the new Matt signing as an indicator that Brodie is fighting for a roster spot. Tyler brings a whole different skill set to the table, so I see his roster spot as a little bit more secure, for now at least…
Honestly, I haven’t seen alot on Gutierrez, but at 6’4" and 230 lbs I’m going out on a limb and saying he’s a (Croyle-style) pocket passer. Pioli didn’t bring in a running/scrambling QB to compete with Thigpen — he could’ve, there are a few available including a name we won’t mention that rhymes with dick. He brought in another pocket passer to compete…
Just my thoughts on this…
You are what your record says you are!
by Chief_Elmo on Aug 6, 2009 9:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
Sorta…I don’t think the Cassel signing had any bearing on Brodie whatsoever.
But I do think that Thiggy brings a different skill set that CAN be useful given the right situation.
by Joel Thorman on Aug 6, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
New Matt = Gutierrez
yeah, I agree…
Cassel’s signing had nothing to do with Brodie. I was referring to Matt Gutierrez. After signing Gutierrez, I think Brodie should be sweating.
You are what your record says you are!
by Chief_Elmo on Aug 6, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a random thought from your post
Is it possible that this staff is not big on Thigpen.
As noted all the other QBs are pocket passers. The odd man in this group is Thigpen.
So my thought/question is Thigpen the type of QB that this staff wants on the team?
by ChiefsFan79 on Aug 6, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting Thought...
Not sure about this one. Seems like they would want to keep him around, but maybe his trade value is such that they’re shopping him around. One of those things that make you go - Hmm…
You are what your record says you are!
by Chief_Elmo on Aug 6, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see it
Don’t forget that Chan has experience with Croyle and he’s still the OC which means he has input on the matter. Life was much better after Croyle was gone for Chan and the offense last year. I understand the “clean slate” thing and all, but above and beyond all of the injuries, when Croyle took the field on game day, he wasn’t a very good QB. It’s going to be a factor for him.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
by Buck'O on Aug 6, 2009 9:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Croyle never showed me anything but a strong arm.
To be fair, I think Herm was way to cautious with him. I rewatched his start in the NE game. He was just dumping the ball off all over the place. HErm knew his job was probably riding on this kid so he wouldn’t let him throw the damn ball down field.
If he improved we never got to see it.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Aug 6, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm no Croyle fanboy,
but I don’t think that we got a fair sampling of his skills. QBs take time to develop and Croyle has spent so much time on IR and in rehab that I don’t think that he’s had enough time to grow into the pocket passing role that he’s built to play. If he was more resistant to injury or had better luck when it came to escaping injury, he’d have more snaps under his belt and who knows? He might have better-looking stats than what his current legacy is.
by Tadpui on Aug 6, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a feeling...
I have the feeling that Matt Gutierrez was signed to challenge for Thigpen’ spot, not Croyle’s.
Not that I would necessarily agree with that move, personally. But I have a feeling that’s what is happening.
by Scott B. on Aug 6, 2009 9:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cassel's style: closer to Thigpen or Croyle?
Croyle may sit in the pocket at little longer, like Cassel, but watch Cassel’s highlight video and he did a fair amount of Thigpeneque scrambling last year. If Cassel needs to go out, I want Thigpen as the next one in.
Thigpen was terrible at first, but he got better. Who has greater ability to rally the offense for a TD drive late in the game in 2009? (after Cassel) I believe Thigpen. Chan knows Thigpen. Thigpen has shown the ability to improve. Croyle plays like there’s some NFL QB prototype mold he’s suppose to fit, while Thigpen plays with a whatever-it-takes mentality.
by sunny D on Aug 6, 2009 9:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade Thigpen while he's hot!
I say trade him. If hes not in the plans for the future (gonzo) why not trade him now. I’m sure there will be teams out there interested (not sure which). I think we could possibly get a 3rd rounder for him.
by AK_47 on Aug 6, 2009 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Theres no way Gutierrez beats out Thigpen
Thigpen has wayyyy too much market value to simply release
by AK_47 on Aug 6, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure if I should plus or minus
I really like the line up of Cassel, Thigpen, Matt so I don’t want to see bones gone…but if he had to go, there is NO WAY they would trade him. Surely somebody, somewhere wants him.
Honestly there have been some things that have made me question Piolis judgement, but I’ve given him the benefit of the doubt. After all, he does do this for a living and is one of the best at it. But if they cut Thigpen I’d really have to start reevaluating my stance on management.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Aug 6, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cassel, Thigpen, Gutierrez
Depth chart to start the season barring injuries. Pioli trades players like gin rummy players trade cards. If the card you draw gives you a better chance than one in your hand, you take it. It’s not the magic bullet, but it’s better. Gutierrez is better than Martin, perhaps more durable and more upside than Croyle; Gutierrez comes to you on the waiver wire, you take him. The 80 people in camp are now better than they were yesterday.
Here’s the question: Will the Raiders or Broncos pick up Croyle once he’s gone? A division rival getting a smart, servicable QB with knowledge about the Chiefs.
by sunny D on Aug 6, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Behind a line like Denver's?
Yeah, possibly.
If he’s got a line that gives him the ability to just stand there and rifle passes down the field, Brodie is great and I think Denver could give that to him.
I’m not sure he’s a McDaniels kind of QB, but I would think that someone in the NFL would take a look at him. Even if he’s not starting QB material, he’d be an upgrade over a lot of the back-ups that are out there, given the right situation.
The problem is, he doesn’t fit our system as well as Cassel and Thigpen due because of his limited durability issues (ie: it doesn’t matter if you can scramble if you break your leg when you go into your “I’m giving myself up!” slide).
by JacinB on Aug 6, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Croyle's market value
What do you guys think we could realistically get in return for shopping croyle? Why cut him if you could trade him for value
by AK_47 on Aug 6, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because teams know we'll cut someone.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Aug 6, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're missing the point
Croyle and especially Thigpen would be hot FA items. They wouldn’t get far on the waiver wire. If there is a team out there that likes them they would likely trade to get the rights to signing the player vs taking the risk of either having to outbid another team or not even getting the chance via waiver wire
by AK_47 on Aug 6, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps a conditional pick
I doubt Croyle’s market value is much at all. Thigpen probably higher because of what he did last year. If Gutierrez is the real deal and has an outstanding preseason like he did last year, then Croyle is the odd guy out. But I doubt anyone trades us, even to get dibs on him.
by sunny D on Aug 6, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing.
There’s interest when he’s free.
I doubt that, since teams know we’re not going to carry 4 QBs into the season and they’d get a shot at him when we put him on the practice squad anyway, that we’ll get anything at all for him.
We’d be operating at a severe disadvantage when negotiating anything in trade.
by JacinB on Aug 6, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I think
Casey Printers should be our starting quarterback! He throws real fast and has a tattoo! (wanders off mumbling to self)
"You can't polish a turd", old guy, Christine
"Let your anger be, like a monkey in a pinata, hiding amongst the candy, hoping the kids don't break through with their sticks!" Master Payne, King Pow
by mugglemage on Aug 6, 2009 10:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You have ...
By far, the most disturbing profile picture I’ve ever seen on here.
by JacinB on Aug 6, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad
I saw that picture on ebaumsworld like 5 years ago and fell in love with it. If it offends anyone I will change it.
"You can't polish a turd", old guy, Christine
"Let your anger be, like a monkey in a pinata, hiding amongst the candy, hoping the kids don't break through with their sticks!" Master Payne, King Pow
by mugglemage on Aug 6, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha its fine
just not what i expected!
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Aug 6, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Croyle as #2 is a figurehead position.
If we need to go to a backup Croyle will just get knocked on his ass again after three plays and Thigpen will be back in anyways.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Aug 6, 2009 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I really get a kick out of the whole "Croyle has a great arm" and "Croyle has so much potential"
Potential and arm strength don’t mean ANYTHING!! Results are all that matters and Croyle even when healthy was not a productive quarterback…Thigpen completely energized and transformed our offense..The guy created results..I actually had a good time watching our games because they were exciting again..We were actually scoring 20-35 points a agame again instead of 7-13…
This isn’t rocket sciene..Anyone who has eye sight could tell last year that Thigpen was a much better quarterback than Croyle and produced much better numbers..
by CALIFAN1986 on Aug 6, 2009 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chris you do a good job but come on.
I’m with Patrick on this one. This reminded me of Al Davis, this WR can run the fastest so he is the best. Chiefs version (Croyle has the greater arm strength and zip on the ball) so he is the best. Just like I would take a WR that can catch over running fast, I would take a QB that can score TD’s and stay in healthy over a rocket arm.
Croyle had his chance and didn’t show me anything, in 2007 the Chiefs had a decent defense and he still couldn’t win any games. If Thigpen had any kind of a defense he would have won more games
.
Croyle in 8 career starts 6 TD’s 8int
Thigpen in 11 career starts 18 TD’s 13 int plus 3 rushing TD’s and 1 rec TD
Herm is gone things are better with that one move!!
by bringbacktheglory on Aug 6, 2009 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to try one more time and I'll just leave Croyle out of it
Let me ask you this, do you feel that Tyler Thigpen has the ability to go under center, stand in the pocket, read a top NFL defense, and deliver the ball to a receiver in his route?
My belief is that he can’t do those things at a high enough level to be a starting QB on a playoff contending NFL team. I love the guy’s heart and guts. I just don’t see how you can build a Super Bowl contender playing a guy at QB (even off the bench) who lacks those essential QB abilities. I realize his numbers look good on paper but the offense he ran involved little to no running game and a passing attack where the QB was constantly running for his life. If that’s our offense again, fine Thiggy’s the man. I just think we need more if we’re going to become a winning football team again.
Ten sacks in a season! For crying out loud that's what I used to average per game using DT in Tecmo Bowl!
by KCporkchop on Aug 6, 2009 12:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
...
Let me ask you this, do you feel that Tyler Thigpen has the ability to go under center, stand in the pocket, read a top NFL defense, and deliver the ball to a receiver in his route?
Yes.
"...Said he couldn't go on the American way"
by Jux on Aug 6, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that how people felt about Gannon before he left?
"The life of a (Royals) fan must be lived forward but can only be understood backward" -- Kierkegaard (more or less)
by benfunke on Aug 7, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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